DS9 is far more bingable today in streaming than a lot of new shows designed to be binge watched. A good combination of continuing story line, with well plotted episodic stories. You can watch episode back to back and watch the story grow, but not feel trouble stopping when you are tired.
I had the pleasure of watching What We Left Behind in a movie theater. They showed clips of ships flying around and dogfighting, which were an entirely new experience on the big screen.
The documentary made me appreciate Rick Berman more especially hearing the Season 8 storytelling. Instead of him being the conservative obstruction, it made me realised that DS9 was the balance between writers who want to go outside the box of Star Trek and people who made sure the spirit of Trek is maintained. DS9 pushed the boundaries of what it is to be a Star Trek show without crossing the line. Hearing season 8 story without the restraint that the likes of Rick Berman gave was illuminating because it sounded awful of writers wanting to write things to be cool, shocking/subversion of expectations while ignoring the established setting and spirit of Star Trek
It's kinda like how Battlestar Galactica '03 was Ron Moore's response to everything that he felt was wrong with Voyager. And while I won't go as far as saying that the way NuBSG ended proved that Voyager had the right approach all along, I think Moore learned the wrong lessons from his brief time working on Voyager; its problem wasn't that it was too episodic or that it kept things light-hearted, it was that the writers went about it in a way that was uninteresting and didn't fully exploit the potential of the show's premise. Yes, having the crew constantly angsting about their situation would have gotten old real quick, but they could have at least taken the time to set up *why* the crew didn't have to worry about these things, instead of launching straight into their pile of scripts that were submitted too late in TNG's run to become episodes of that show.
I didn't realize this was released in 2018. I thought it was something that was released shortly after season 7. The fact that the cast and writers were willing to come back to this two decades later is a testament to how great the show truly was. DS9 is what Trek should aspire to be; if people don't consider it to be Trekky enough, that's because Trek often fails to meet these aspirations.
How could people say DS9 is bad because there’s no exploration when a good chunk of the show is charting and exploring new planets in the recently discovered Gamma Quadrant?
It's the most infuriating criticism leveled at the show, which not only featured a fair amount of literal exploration (the aforementioned Gamma Quadrant stuff) but also is still unique in Star Trek for exploring what life under the Federation might actually be like for the >99% of people in the setting who _don't_ get to just hop on their starship and forever abandon any and all consequences of their actions at the end of every episode.
This is one of those stream-of-consciousness monologues that you occasionally have to back up and rewatch a few times to get all the nutrients. *chefs kiss* Phenomenal job.
Somehow Ensign Kim survives, but is horrifically injured. Still fully conscious and aware, but he has been rendered only able to express himself through a beep chair, because death would only have been a release for Harry Kim. He is at least given a largely ceremonial promotion, though... to Fleet Ensign. A rank possessed only by him, still beneath a Lieutenant Junior Grade, but at least he's higher up than other ensigns... even though, as a department head, he already kind of was. Poor, Dumb Harry. 😞
@@jercoxthealmighty To make matters worse, Janeway forced him to have his first name legally changed to Ensign and his middle name to Harry, meaning that his full name is now Ensign Harry Kim. And then created a law that prevents him specifically from changing his name back.
Poor Harry, he gets home after exploring the Delta Quadrant and still gets no promotion. Janeway really did him dirty, like always, when she changed the timeline to get Voyager home early. Harry "Captain, are you saying that I was a Captain in the other timeline? Well... if sacrificing that future meant saving everyone on Voyager, then I would gladly make that choice." Parody Janeway "Well, that's alright then. That wasn't the reason my older self made that choice though..." Kim "What? Why then? Parody Janeway "Because you made Captain and she wasn't having any of it, and neither will I. Ha ha ha ha."
One of the most forgotten steps about fixing various societal problems is periodically checking on whether implemented solutions are actually getting good results, and changing course if they don't. Too many people in politics and activism only pay attention to the upfront dopamine rush of "I did something to help!!!!!", and ignore the result of "The cure was worse than the problem and we are no better off now at best.". And then when you try to tell them that there are other options instead of doubling in tripling down on the same solution, you get called names. What's the dictionary is woefully behind taking those epithets and adding the definitions "disagreed with someone, especially a politician, pundit, or activist" and "isn't toeing the political line demanded by ideologues".
"That's Starfleet; Good at observing and bad at maintaining. You know, we can't just assume people are gonna keep doing the right thing a generation down the road." - Beckett Mariner, USS Cerritos
And this right here is why it's really sad Chuch (and many other Trekkies) don't play and aren't willing to try Star Trek Online. Because you get Season 8 of DS9 (with almost a full cast) and you as the main character. And it's called "Victory is Life" in STO. It's also the last appearance of Aaron Eisenberg. And now there is a ship class named after him with U.S.S Nog being the first ship of this class.
Great documentary on DS9 that really proves its love and place in Trek, no matter how hoity-toity some may feel about it being the original odd one out of the time compared to TNG and VOY. Was really difficult and disheartening seeing the cast and crew read some of the fan comments against the show. The hypothetical season 8 they came up with…I admit I’m not sure how I’d feel about some of the directions they went, but they could’ve always been ironed out. I wouldn’t mind seeing some sort of comic adaptation being made of this.
I love this documentary. You can tell it's being made at least as much for those involved as it is for the audience, and I can appreciate that. I too felt ambivalent about the S8 directions. Some of it was intriguing, but a lot of it felt a bit too edgy-for-edgy's sake, and undermined a lot that I like about where the show ended up. I admit that in reality, if this were a real show and a real story session, a lot of that would get ironed out or made into something meaningful. However, since that's not the case, all we have is a very rough first draft with several elements that probably wouldn't survive to production if it were being made for real, and yet here it is now set in celluloid (bits?) for others to adapt or springboard from as-is. It left me very conflicted about so much of it. For me, the two biggest problems are that killing Captain Nog was in poor taste (even before Aron's untimely passing), and making Section 31 have such a huge role in the storyline. At this point I'm sick to death of S31's overuse in Trek, and I'd love to see the folks who originated it (and used it sparingly, ambiguously, and well) put it away for good rather than double-down. It simply appeared that they were out of touch in this regard and unaware of this sentiment. As for Nog, my only hope is that the entire thing was a decoy or ruse of some kind, and outcome that is not entirely out of the question when S31 is involved; it's just unsatisfying and wasteful to finally give the audience something that was teased before only to take it away without any build-up or utilization, and it's frankly unfair to the actor as well. If there is a comic or book adaptation someday, I hope it doesn't follow their outline too closely. It needs a lot of reworking to be a worthy follow-up to DS9's canonical storylines, themes, and performances.
@@JosephDaviesAgreed. One big problem for me is the idea that Sisko has been gone this whole time. Avery Brooks made it clear to the writers during Season 7 that it was not a good look for a black man to disappear on his pregnant wife (not to mention Jake). So they changed what they had planned from ‘Sisko joins the Prophets forever’ to ‘Sisko will join the Prophets for a year or so but will return.” Guess the writers forgot about that when they came up with this hypothetical season.
@@kradeizYup. I'm sure the excuse would be something like "time's non-linear for me now and I lost track of time" but that feels weak. Of course, that's also partly a consequence of setting their season 8 after a real-world passage of decades.
In fairness to the S8 stuff, it was material they came up with in less than a day, so we got some high level basics. If doing it for real, far more time would be spent exploring and refining them.
One of the things I didn't like about the hypothetical season 8 episode they did, was Bajor staying out of the federation, and the writers acting like that was obviously a good thing.
The S8 brainstorm was overall the weakest part of the documentary for me. I didn't particularly like the changes to the worldbuilding they did, and without further development (or at least payoff) for those decisions, all we have are the bad choices made in setting up the new season. It was an interesting thing to watch, at least, but the end result was not satisfying.
Yay! It sounds like you enjoyed What We Left Behind as much as we did. Your appraisal of Jadzia? "Stop being a dick, you're better than that." You just perfectly summed up Curzon, the previous host.
I struggled with "What We Left Behind" - so much so I couldn't even watch all of it. I get that it's a retrospective/speculative, but what I watched of it came across as an overly self-indulgent circle-jerk. And I felt a little bad for Avery Brooks. Guy just looked like he wanted to play his piano.
I watched this not too long ago. The faux writing meeting they did coming up with how a new DS9 episode that continued the story really made me wish it was made, even though I knew it never would be. 😕
Ironically, Robinson was always worried about getting typecast in that role. IIRC he was desperate to move beyond it because he did such a good job that he received IRL death threats cause of people who couldn't separate the role and the actor. He was very unhappy when he had to tap into that during the Empok Nor episode
I don't find it difficult to get why you could just ring those names of one after the other, you've been seeing Written by... and Story by... for more than 2 decades at this point.
I never thought of Kiera as a terrorist . . . More like freedom a freedom fighter in France during the German occupation of WW2. BUT . . . Her actions in Return to Glory do remind me of a man whose house kept getting broken into. . . . He set up a trap and killed the people who kept breaking in. She might not have intended to kill them when they were helpless, but seemed open to the possibility of some dying in the process. That episode actually shows her to have a monstrous side that seems shocking. Tricking people that were not threatening them is not heroic or noble.
Its the same thing, freedom fighter and terrorist, it really only depends on how much do outside powers favor you over invader or colonizer. Although there are some mass shooters i can think of that definitely wouldn't fit freedom fighter because they just gave up on any moral principles needed for working society, probably closest to pure terrorism since the violence isnt the means to an end but perpetrated for its own sake.
Freedom fighter and terrorist are two sides of the same coin, it just depends on whose side you are on: La Resistance saw themselves as freedom fighters (as did many French), but the Nazis and their collaborators saw them as terrorists. More recent and extreme example, a picture I saw the other day showed Clinton, Bush and Obama with the caption "These 3 men killed 11 million muslims and yet they're not called terrorists". History is writen by the winners, so when we get to the 23rd Century, we might know who were the 21st Century terrorists.
@@alfje5492 I really think certain things are a distinctly differences. The likelihood of innocent (or at least non combatant) casualties . . . small groups often without government oversight . . . financing through illegal and immoral activities . . . Theses are hallmarks of how most people would define . . . Can you get technical about it? Sure? Point out gray areas? So did She do things that knowingly harmed non combatants . . . I guess . . . And brazenly in the one episode when she’s supposed to be a good gal . . . Maybe even in other situations in the character’s past . . . I just wasn’t as aware of those details most of the time.
I do believe people (not just fans) will be able to appreciate DS9 with the same kind of nostalgia they have for both TOS & TNG. As for Voyage? Ptooey, leaves a bad taste in my mouth!
If Kira and the Bajorans are terrorists fighting against the Cardassians, then wouldn't Luke, Han, Leia, and the Rebels also be classified as Terrorists against the Empire?
I was driving one time and a local guy talking on the radio said, "Magic bullets are for werewolves. In the real world there are no magic bullets, just no easy solution if there were we would already be doing it."
This one was hard to get through, just because it's your blue sun logo for 20+ mins. Maybe a few freeze frames would have been easier for the audience? Just some hopefully helpful criticism.
Read any interview with Behr during DS9's run and he essentially says 'TNG sucks, watch this show instead' as if that would suddenly make DS9's ratings go through the roof 🙄. Hardly the stance one wants to take to promote their own show. Behr comes across as bitchy as Kevin Sorbo does whenever anyone brings up Xena
@25:29 - “spinning blue sun” is a lame way to refer to an F-type star. Just say it’s an F-type star. *everyone listening* is a nerd on some level, and the astronomy nerds *DEEPLY* appreciate correctly naming the type/classification of stars. Trust me. Though it’s hard to get a full-spectrum reading of it; this might be an A-type star if it’s missing sodium and magnesium, but also has a lot of calcium in the emission spectra (all of which depends on the age of the stellar nursery that birthed this star). \m/
His 'blue sun' is a negative of, if memory serves, an actual image of Sol. Well, an already false-color image, really. Point is, the image was red before Chuck press ganged it.
@@boobah5643 Yep. He chose it because of the metaphor of looking at something familiar in a different light. Of course, he goes over this in his review of Star Trek 5, where he explains it in the context of always getting asked why his avatar is Sha Ka Re, that while he can just not watch other bad Trek movies and move on, Star Trek 5 just keeps coming up in his life because of that, and that therefore Star Trek 5 is stalking him. So, you know. Take it as you will. It's not an F-Type Star either way, though.
It's an OK documentary. It has too many clips of Drumpf and whining about his policies. I didn't turn on a Star Trek documentary to listen to a bunch of Hollywood people preach to me about how evil Donald Trump is, I turned it on to learn about the tv show. He was not related to DS9 when it was being made in the slightest.
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DS9 is far more bingable today in streaming than a lot of new shows designed to be binge watched. A good combination of continuing story line, with well plotted episodic stories. You can watch episode back to back and watch the story grow, but not feel trouble stopping when you are tired.
I had the pleasure of watching What We Left Behind in a movie theater. They showed clips of ships flying around and dogfighting, which were an entirely new experience on the big screen.
Same here in Germany in Hamburg, where it was shown one night only. Loved it, DS9 is my second favorite show of all time. After B5, of course.
Caught it in theaters as well. Maybe 10 people were there. When one of the last people showed up they shouted to the crowd "waddup nerds?!"
Dear Lord, of all the amazing episodes DS9 has, the stinkfest finale is what they put on the big screen?
@@dr.juerdotitsgo5119 What We Leave Behind is the finale, What We Left Behind is the ds9 documentary that came out in 2018
The documentary made me appreciate Rick Berman more especially hearing the Season 8 storytelling. Instead of him being the conservative obstruction, it made me realised that DS9 was the balance between writers who want to go outside the box of Star Trek and people who made sure the spirit of Trek is maintained. DS9 pushed the boundaries of what it is to be a Star Trek show without crossing the line. Hearing season 8 story without the restraint that the likes of Rick Berman gave was illuminating because it sounded awful of writers wanting to write things to be cool, shocking/subversion of expectations while ignoring the established setting and spirit of Star Trek
It's kinda like how Battlestar Galactica '03 was Ron Moore's response to everything that he felt was wrong with Voyager. And while I won't go as far as saying that the way NuBSG ended proved that Voyager had the right approach all along, I think Moore learned the wrong lessons from his brief time working on Voyager; its problem wasn't that it was too episodic or that it kept things light-hearted, it was that the writers went about it in a way that was uninteresting and didn't fully exploit the potential of the show's premise. Yes, having the crew constantly angsting about their situation would have gotten old real quick, but they could have at least taken the time to set up *why* the crew didn't have to worry about these things, instead of launching straight into their pile of scripts that were submitted too late in TNG's run to become episodes of that show.
As a longtime Star Trek fan I still think that DS9 was the overall best Star Trek series.
I didn't realize this was released in 2018. I thought it was something that was released shortly after season 7. The fact that the cast and writers were willing to come back to this two decades later is a testament to how great the show truly was. DS9 is what Trek should aspire to be; if people don't consider it to be Trekky enough, that's because Trek often fails to meet these aspirations.
That last sentence sums up the smugness of some DS9 fans. Just as bad as the "traditional" Trek fans who dump on DS9.
How could people say DS9 is bad because there’s no exploration when a good chunk of the show is charting and exploring new planets in the recently discovered Gamma Quadrant?
They never watched that far, I assume.
It's the most infuriating criticism leveled at the show, which not only featured a fair amount of literal exploration (the aforementioned Gamma Quadrant stuff) but also is still unique in Star Trek for exploring what life under the Federation might actually be like for the >99% of people in the setting who _don't_ get to just hop on their starship and forever abandon any and all consequences of their actions at the end of every episode.
This is one of those stream-of-consciousness monologues that you occasionally have to back up and rewatch a few times to get all the nutrients. *chefs kiss* Phenomenal job.
Captain Nog on the Defiant. His crew including Ensign Harry Kim.
Somehow Ensign Kim survives, but is horrifically injured. Still fully conscious and aware, but he has been rendered only able to express himself through a beep chair, because death would only have been a release for Harry Kim. He is at least given a largely ceremonial promotion, though... to Fleet Ensign. A rank possessed only by him, still beneath a Lieutenant Junior Grade, but at least he's higher up than other ensigns... even though, as a department head, he already kind of was.
Poor, Dumb Harry. 😞
@@jercoxthealmighty To make matters worse, Janeway forced him to have his first name legally changed to Ensign and his middle name to Harry, meaning that his full name is now Ensign Harry Kim. And then created a law that prevents him specifically from changing his name back.
Poor Harry, he gets home after exploring the Delta Quadrant and still gets no promotion.
Janeway really did him dirty, like always, when she changed the timeline to get Voyager home early.
Harry "Captain, are you saying that I was a Captain in the other timeline? Well... if sacrificing that future meant saving everyone on Voyager, then I would gladly make that choice."
Parody Janeway "Well, that's alright then. That wasn't the reason my older self made that choice though..."
Kim "What? Why then?
Parody Janeway "Because you made Captain and she wasn't having any of it, and neither will I. Ha ha ha ha."
I remember watching this film at the theater and loved seeing iconic scenes on the big screen.
One of the most forgotten steps about fixing various societal problems is periodically checking on whether implemented solutions are actually getting good results, and changing course if they don't.
Too many people in politics and activism only pay attention to the upfront dopamine rush of "I did something to help!!!!!", and ignore the result of "The cure was worse than the problem and we are no better off now at best.".
And then when you try to tell them that there are other options instead of doubling in tripling down on the same solution, you get called names.
What's the dictionary is woefully behind taking those epithets and adding the definitions "disagreed with someone, especially a politician, pundit, or activist" and "isn't toeing the political line demanded by ideologues".
"That's Starfleet; Good at observing and bad at maintaining. You know, we can't just assume people are gonna keep doing the right thing a generation down the road."
- Beckett Mariner, USS Cerritos
@@myriadmediamusings >.> And modern activists/politicos... Often the same ones for decades.
@@myriadmediamusingsOne of the lesser moments of Lower Decks. It's cute for comedy, bad for Trek long-term.
4:44 You absolutely nailed it with this point. It’s given me a lot to ruminate on - thank you! 🙂
And this right here is why it's really sad Chuch (and many other Trekkies) don't play and aren't willing to try Star Trek Online.
Because you get Season 8 of DS9 (with almost a full cast) and you as the main character. And it's called "Victory is Life" in STO.
It's also the last appearance of Aaron Eisenberg. And now there is a ship class named after him with U.S.S Nog being the first ship of this class.
That’s so cool. I confess to feeling a wrongness when I heard of Eisenburg’s death. Nog will always be one of my favourite characters in all of Trek
cool i'll just watch it on youtube because i don't like playing f2p mmos
there's also a double act for Kate Mulgrew who plays regular Admiral Janeway and Mirror Universe Janeway (but not Chuck's version unfortunately)
Great documentary on DS9 that really proves its love and place in Trek, no matter how hoity-toity some may feel about it being the original odd one out of the time compared to TNG and VOY. Was really difficult and disheartening seeing the cast and crew read some of the fan comments against the show.
The hypothetical season 8 they came up with…I admit I’m not sure how I’d feel about some of the directions they went, but they could’ve always been ironed out. I wouldn’t mind seeing some sort of comic adaptation being made of this.
I love this documentary. You can tell it's being made at least as much for those involved as it is for the audience, and I can appreciate that.
I too felt ambivalent about the S8 directions. Some of it was intriguing, but a lot of it felt a bit too edgy-for-edgy's sake, and undermined a lot that I like about where the show ended up. I admit that in reality, if this were a real show and a real story session, a lot of that would get ironed out or made into something meaningful. However, since that's not the case, all we have is a very rough first draft with several elements that probably wouldn't survive to production if it were being made for real, and yet here it is now set in celluloid (bits?) for others to adapt or springboard from as-is. It left me very conflicted about so much of it.
For me, the two biggest problems are that killing Captain Nog was in poor taste (even before Aron's untimely passing), and making Section 31 have such a huge role in the storyline. At this point I'm sick to death of S31's overuse in Trek, and I'd love to see the folks who originated it (and used it sparingly, ambiguously, and well) put it away for good rather than double-down. It simply appeared that they were out of touch in this regard and unaware of this sentiment. As for Nog, my only hope is that the entire thing was a decoy or ruse of some kind, and outcome that is not entirely out of the question when S31 is involved; it's just unsatisfying and wasteful to finally give the audience something that was teased before only to take it away without any build-up or utilization, and it's frankly unfair to the actor as well.
If there is a comic or book adaptation someday, I hope it doesn't follow their outline too closely. It needs a lot of reworking to be a worthy follow-up to DS9's canonical storylines, themes, and performances.
@@JosephDaviesAgreed. One big problem for me is the idea that Sisko has been gone this whole time. Avery Brooks made it clear to the writers during Season 7 that it was not a good look for a black man to disappear on his pregnant wife (not to mention Jake). So they changed what they had planned from ‘Sisko joins the Prophets forever’ to ‘Sisko will join the Prophets for a year or so but will return.” Guess the writers forgot about that when they came up with this hypothetical season.
@@kradeizYup. I'm sure the excuse would be something like "time's non-linear for me now and I lost track of time" but that feels weak. Of course, that's also partly a consequence of setting their season 8 after a real-world passage of decades.
In fairness to the S8 stuff, it was material they came up with in less than a day, so we got some high level basics. If doing it for real, far more time would be spent exploring and refining them.
@@KiltedCritic Indeed. That's what makes it frustrating. Interesting, but also frustrating.
I enjoyed this. Thank you very much. :)
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. :) This was a nice rumination on a wonderful documentary.
Yeah Greivoux also wrote Underworld iirc
I love this doc, nice memories and a great love letter to a great show
One of the things I didn't like about the hypothetical season 8 episode they did, was Bajor staying out of the federation, and the writers acting like that was obviously a good thing.
The S8 brainstorm was overall the weakest part of the documentary for me. I didn't particularly like the changes to the worldbuilding they did, and without further development (or at least payoff) for those decisions, all we have are the bad choices made in setting up the new season. It was an interesting thing to watch, at least, but the end result was not satisfying.
Trek Chuck is best Chuck
Thoroughly enjoyable, thanks Chuck!
I love these side tangents. The One about Worf and Honor is one of my favorites.
Yay! It sounds like you enjoyed What We Left Behind as much as we did.
Your appraisal of Jadzia? "Stop being a dick, you're better than that." You just perfectly summed up Curzon, the previous host.
I love Hot Shots! Part Deux. 😄
I really wanted to use the hat waving while coming off the helicopter, but the voiceover just didn't let the scene work in isolation.
That Lloyd Bridges joke made me laugh so hard the rest of the house woke up
I struggled with "What We Left Behind" - so much so I couldn't even watch all of it. I get that it's a retrospective/speculative, but what I watched of it came across as an overly self-indulgent circle-jerk.
And I felt a little bad for Avery Brooks. Guy just looked like he wanted to play his piano.
I watched this not too long ago. The faux writing meeting they did coming up with how a new DS9 episode that continued the story really made me wish it was made, even though I knew it never would be. 😕
And this is why Sisko was the best Star Trek captain.
Wasn't a bad plot until 'Section 31' is mentioned.
"Andrew Robinson aka Garrick."
Sorry but to me Andy Robinson will ALWAYS be "Scorpio" from "Dirty Harry."
Yeah, I'm old.
Ironically, Robinson was always worried about getting typecast in that role.
IIRC he was desperate to move beyond it because he did such a good job that he received IRL death threats cause of people who couldn't separate the role and the actor. He was very unhappy when he had to tap into that during the Empok Nor episode
DS9 is peak Star Trek imo.
Not watched your video yet (Only just clicked on it). But imho I love What We Left Behind.
I bought WWLB on disc when it came out and was disappointed to find that it was region locked.
I don't find it difficult to get why you could just ring those names of one after the other, you've been seeing Written by... and Story by... for more than 2 decades at this point.
Kevin Grevioux also made the Underworld series, inspired from the bigotry he endured when he was in an interracial relationship.
Honestly, DS9 is my favorite series of all the Star Treks.
I never thought of Kiera as a terrorist . . . More like freedom a freedom fighter in France during the German occupation of WW2.
BUT . . . Her actions in Return to Glory do remind me of a man whose house kept getting broken into. . . . He set up a trap and killed the people who kept breaking in.
She might not have intended to kill them when they were helpless, but seemed open to the possibility of some dying in the process.
That episode actually shows her to have a monstrous side that seems shocking.
Tricking people that were not threatening them is not heroic or noble.
"One Man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist."-G. Washington
Kira has called herself a terrorist many times.
Its the same thing, freedom fighter and terrorist, it really only depends on how much do outside powers favor you over invader or colonizer.
Although there are some mass shooters i can think of that definitely wouldn't fit freedom fighter because they just gave up on any moral principles needed for working society, probably closest to pure terrorism since the violence isnt the means to an end but perpetrated for its own sake.
Freedom fighter and terrorist are two sides of the same coin, it just depends on whose side you are on: La Resistance saw themselves as freedom fighters (as did many French), but the Nazis and their collaborators saw them as terrorists.
More recent and extreme example, a picture I saw the other day showed Clinton, Bush and Obama with the caption "These 3 men killed 11 million muslims and yet they're not called terrorists".
History is writen by the winners, so when we get to the 23rd Century, we might know who were the 21st Century terrorists.
@@alfje5492 I really think certain things are a distinctly differences.
The likelihood of innocent (or at least non combatant) casualties . . . small groups often without government oversight . . . financing through illegal and immoral activities . . . Theses are hallmarks of how most people would define . . . Can you get technical about it? Sure? Point out gray areas?
So did She do things that knowingly harmed non combatants . . . I guess . . . And brazenly in the one episode when she’s supposed to be a good gal . . . Maybe even in other situations in the character’s past . . . I just wasn’t as aware of those details most of the time.
25:45 - Force of habit.
It really sucks that DS9, the BEST Star Trek show, is so unappreciated.
I do believe people (not just fans) will be able to appreciate DS9 with the same kind of nostalgia they have for both TOS & TNG. As for Voyage? Ptooey, leaves a bad taste in my mouth!
11:30 and just another proof canadian Degrassi is far more mature than shows in the US that were meant to be made for older audiences.
If Kira and the Bajorans are terrorists fighting against the Cardassians, then wouldn't Luke, Han, Leia, and the Rebels also be classified as Terrorists against the Empire?
I was driving one time and a local guy talking on the radio said, "Magic bullets are for werewolves. In the real world there are no magic bullets, just no easy solution if there were we would already be doing it."
Your old-man-on-the-internet card is showing. I just like your content and thoughts. Don't need to like DS9 to enjoy what you have to say about it
This one was hard to get through, just because it's your blue sun logo for 20+ mins.
Maybe a few freeze frames would have been easier for the audience?
Just some hopefully helpful criticism.
This channel is full of “weird moments”.
17:10
Loved DS9, but I didn't like their take on the Mirror Universe much.
The Mirror Universe should never have been more than a one-off gag in TOS. If that.
Read any interview with Behr during DS9's run and he essentially says 'TNG sucks, watch this show instead' as if that would suddenly make DS9's ratings go through the roof 🙄. Hardly the stance one wants to take to promote their own show. Behr comes across as bitchy as Kevin Sorbo does whenever anyone brings up Xena
Trek was about exploring the human condition with space as a backdrop. That is and always was the soul of Trek. It's not starships or technobabble.
@25:29 - “spinning blue sun” is a lame way to refer to an F-type star. Just say it’s an F-type star. *everyone listening* is a nerd on some level, and the astronomy nerds *DEEPLY* appreciate correctly naming the type/classification of stars. Trust me. Though it’s hard to get a full-spectrum reading of it; this might be an A-type star if it’s missing sodium and magnesium, but also has a lot of calcium in the emission spectra (all of which depends on the age of the stellar nursery that birthed this star).
\m/
His 'blue sun' is a negative of, if memory serves, an actual image of Sol. Well, an already false-color image, really. Point is, the image was red before Chuck press ganged it.
@@boobah5643 Yep. He chose it because of the metaphor of looking at something familiar in a different light.
Of course, he goes over this in his review of Star Trek 5, where he explains it in the context of always getting asked why his avatar is Sha Ka Re, that while he can just not watch other bad Trek movies and move on, Star Trek 5 just keeps coming up in his life because of that, and that therefore Star Trek 5 is stalking him.
So, you know. Take it as you will.
It's not an F-Type Star either way, though.
It's an OK documentary. It has too many clips of Drumpf and whining about his policies. I didn't turn on a Star Trek documentary to listen to a bunch of Hollywood people preach to me about how evil Donald Trump is, I turned it on to learn about the tv show. He was not related to DS9 when it was being made in the slightest.
Slava Bajor!! Slava Ukraine!! Slava Israel!!