Dear Dave, I hope this note finds you in good spirits. I wanted to take a moment to express my heartfelt gratitude for the incredible content you create on your RUclips channel. Your unique blend of humour and expertise on sustainable technologies has not only entertained me but also educated and inspired me to make positive changes in my own life. Your videos always manage to bring a smile to my face, and I appreciate how you effortlessly infuse humour into complex subjects like renewable energy, waste reduction, and eco-friendly practices. You have a remarkable talent for making even the most daunting topics accessible and enjoyable to learn about. Beyond your entertaining style, I am truly grateful for the knowledge and insights you share. Your expertise in sustainable technologies has opened my eyes to the possibilities and importance of embracing a greener lifestyle. Your videos have motivated me to explore renewable energy options, reduce my carbon footprint, and make more conscious choices in everyday life. I wanted to take this opportunity to thank you for using your platform to promote sustainability and environmental awareness. Your dedication to spreading knowledge while keeping things lighthearted is commendable and incredibly impactful. You have created a community of like-minded individuals who, thanks to your influence, are working towards a more sustainable future. Once again, thank you, Dave, for the incredible content you produce and the positive impact you have on your viewers. Your humour and expertise are a winning combination, and I eagerly look forward to each new video you release.
Very well said! I couldn't agree more. Dave, your commitment and intellectual, open-minded rigor in investigating and analyzing prospective "solutions" to our urgent predicament is a truly great gift to all who join you in this essential learning adventure.
Flow batteries soud great for stationary storage. This one adds another dimension- shows there are not just primary benefits, but secondary and perhaps tertiary reaction products we could utilize. Save Lithium for mobile applucations where weight matters.
Yeah and focus on lithium air. Potentially having up to12,000 kwh/kg if we can take the oxyogen out of the air which blows all the other battery chemistries out or the water. Half that if oxyogen needs to be included.
Actually stationary storage is what we need most of all if we want to make Wind and Solar generation efficient and practical on a large scale. Currently with wind if supply is greater than the demand we feed some of it back into the wind generator to slow it down which wastes electricity and also wastes the energy in the wind. With solar there is the problem of no generation at all during low light and night time. The breakthrough in clean energy will not come from the source of generation but in the ability to store all the available energy for later use
Totally agree, I cringe to see people using lithium based batteries for grid storage, not environmentally sustainable when there are better alternatives
Given the clearly flakey energy storage and carbon capture proposals that seem to attract substantial investment the fact that this hasn’t is something of a red flag and suggestive that there may be even more significant hurdles to overcome before such a system can be a reality. But it is great that there is a channel that keeps us abreast of these developments and provides updates. Never apologise for revisiting past innovations Dave, it’s the thing that sets this channel apart from all other media.
It isn't necessarily a red flag. Here in Canada we don't have much of a venture capital sector. There are firms, but they're smaller and much more risk adverse than what you'd see in the US. If Agora manages to get backing from outside the country, then domestic investment will probably be easier to find.
@@Kevin_Street📣 LOUDER FOR THE COUNTRIES IN THE BACK 📣 😅 The volume of high-risk investment cash in Canada is abysmal when compared to other jurisdictions.
Also, they're in Vancouver, while all the hardcore CCUS advocates are in Alberta, Saskatchewan, and Newfoundland. If Agora was based in Calgary you know the UCP would be flinging money at them in an attempt to greenwash their politics...
As a Canadian I wouldn't poo poo this project as Canadian investors are notoriously behind and skittish in investing, period. Let's give it some more time and hopefully, proper funding.
I've no illusion that I'm benefiting anyone with wisdom. I comment to help out the algorithm, and to make sure I understand what the video is saying. It helps a lot. Anyway, thank you for another great video. This is a really clever idea, and for once it's fairly close to home! Agora Energy Technologies is a Vancouver startup, so just on the other side of the mountains. It does sound clever. Energy storage and/or carbon capture. It seems like the best place for these batteries is an industrial park, where some of them could regulate the electricity coming in and others could be put to work making carbonate. If I understand right, the main reason industries don't capture CO2 from their own smokestacks is because it costs money. If they can sell the carbonate that could potentially make the equipment pay for itself.
Those secondary/tertiary market opportunities could make for ‘zero-cost’ or low cost installation for sure! I’m in Alberta, and it would be great to have a facility out here pulling from refineries or concrete plants.
One of the reasons I really love this channel is that it makes things feel real - there is no neo-liberal, tech bro optimism - but it spends a lot of time going through the many, many different technologies that are being researched and optimised. Particularly storage tech. Many don't involve the usual suspects in terms of battery tech, and some aren't even highly toxic for either extraction or recycling at end-of-life. And there are LOTS of them. 95% of them will fail completely and 80% of the rest will be too expensive to make a meaningful difference. Many of those that could really make a change might take a couple of decades more to get there. But what that all means is that actually, at least for the energy thing, we aren't doomed. 1% of 1000 is 10, and that's probably enough. It's not all relying on lithium and traditional solar panels, and that means we could actually force miners and manufacturers to keep to some minimum standards and still make some meaningful progress in terms of volume. What about copper though? Is that going to be one of those "hard" problems that physics is going to stubbornly stop us getting proper alternatives to?
Aluminium is a quite popular substitute nowadays. It is used quite a bit in transformers in lieu of copper. It's in almost inexhaustible quantities in the crust.
It would make sodium carbonate as the byproduct if fed sodium hydroxide. The separatog would be a proton exchange membrane and bromide/HBr/ Br2 would be the anode side. The materials needed to work with elemental bromine and HBr would be challenging, but SiC/graphite on a metal oxide/ tantalum plated collector should work well. Ordinary stainess steel coated with palladium of patinum loaded carbon would work for the cathode side. In an open cycle, the battery would be charged by creating bicarbonate that creates formate and carbonate as power is being drawn. The formate is the actual chemical created as it runs. Other than the small amounts of precious metals needed it seems like a good idea as formic acid is a useful chemical feedstock.
Well that was brilliant. And exciting. You do such a fantastic job of finding and explaining these potentially outstanding solutions to the problems we face. Thanks again
Dave, I always enjoy and learn something from your technology reviews. This is yet another very interesting subject which I appreciate your coverage of. I truly regret not being able to attend any of the Fully Charged / Everything Electric Shows or experience one of your live talks. Keep up the great work.
A demonstrator of Energy Dome has been running for some time, proving that it works. A full scale 20MW/200MWh is currently under construction, due to be operational before the end of the year. None of the low temperature hassels of compressed air storage, and all standard equipment in the build.
Thanks Dave for bringing this rater exciting news to my attention. I look forward to future developments in this field of this battery - it looks like a win win solution to energy storage with a very useful by-product during the process!
Well, I have no wisdom to offer, but I truly enjoy your content, and your presentation style. You're not full oh hype, you do a good job of explaining some complex technology in a very accessible way. Thank You.
You need to calculate and add the source of alkaline you use to neutralize the CO2 into Carbonate.....so it does not hold water unless you find a free source to raise the pH ..and since it does not use CaO which is likely the cheapest you may have to use hydroxide ...which you use electricity to produce 🙂
If you would find a process than could make hydroxide at a higher than 100% efficiency then you could net store CO2 with this "flow battery". But since every real hydroxide production is less than 100% (not even close!) this whole setup is a joke that is a net CO2 producer! morons...
Not sure how you get two negative ions to react. Sodium hydroxide plus hydrogen carbonate will yield sodium carbonate plus water. That works but costs.
Thanks Dave. One issue with that cells useful byproducts is that they are used elsewhere and the CO₂ is released back into the atmosphere. For instance, Sodium Bicarbonate is often used in baking as a raising agent, reacting with an acid, to produce a salt, plus the CO₂ which raises the baked product.There is no net reduction of the greenhouse gas. (Unless it's then pumped into greenhouses? 😉)
This could be the best transition method I've seen for dirty energy. It would allows that slow ramp down of coal power plants while offering also offering green energy a method for the public to trust transitioning to it. I like it!
energy density dosent matter in the case of Stationary Grid scale storage. It just needs to be cheap. this looks promising, as there is no expensive elements in it like Vanadium.
Hello Dave, Thanks for the video. You have reviewed a lot of energy production and storage systems. They have gone a bit blurry now. Suggestions to masters is often not a good idea but if you had a rankings system and leader board I think it would help clarify their positions of potential to succeed. Thanks again, best to you and yours mate.
I'm afraid the bonus solid carbonate is not necessarily special. As you mentioned it requires a high pH, eg by adding lime or in its stronger sodium form, caustic soda. That costs energy to make and money to buy. It may lead to scaling of the electrode. The CO2 could have been made to react with such basic chemicals in the 1st place, irrespective of the presence of a flow battery. So this seems like the stacking of proven technology sold as something new, unless the battery discharging and the way the CO2 then becomes available will substantially simplify the precipitation to a carbonate.
Right on! This is completely stupid idea that makes more CO2 ( during hydroxide production ) than it "stores" in carbonates. I hate that this rubbish gets even the slightest attention. Does really nobody understand the most basic chemistry???
It looks like they need 3 times as much Potasium Hydroxide (KOH) as the Potasium Carbonate (KCO3) made. Both chemicals sell for about $1k a ton, so they are loosing money on the chemical conversion process itself. The electical 'storage' (a bit of a stretch as it seems most of the energy release is from the input chemicals) would need to cover the loss which seems really unlikely.
I continue to enjoy "Just Have a Think". This Agora Energy, CO2 redox battery and all of the attendant cost payback really looks like great investment--on many fronts. 80+y/o techie.
I had to pause you there, and no, not about to rant. You could place this on a HGV, as the vehicle is moving from the source of the CO2 it could power itself with the energy created and then drop off the Carbonate where it is needed. Another wee snack for the grey jello upstairs 🤔 Love your work, keep it up and thank you 🙏🏼☺️
This concept reminds me of a concept launched in the 1980s: Reduce acid rain by extracting the sulphoric compounds from power plant emissions in such a way that the result becomes commercial quantities of plaster of Paris, which is instantly formed into sheets of drywall .
Thanks for telling Dave? If this works and is not a scam it's great and as I see it would provide enough stiffness to allow for a series of e g wind turbines or solar panels to stabilize electric power networks. You got yourself a new subscriber...
Really really interesting! 👏👏 i closely follow other Publicy Traded Companies on battery and Storage tech, really promising like Amprius Technology woth their silicon anode battery cell with 500 Wh/kg Energy density, Energy Vault with their multi-tecnology approach and Gravity Based Storage, ESS with iron flow based Redox Flow battery and EOSE with zinc base flow battery!
This sounds like a perfect match for the Frankfurt chemical area as they have all components together. They have CO2 and a demand for energy and carbonates and they have the technology and tons of experience in handling all substances as required, as this is what they do all the time there.
Hi Dave, from Canada! I stumbled onto your channel during Covid and look forward to every Sunday to view your clips. I'm a recently retired police officer but have always been interested in the pursuit of new sustainable energy inventions and it gives me some hope for the future for my kids and grandkids. As I have viewed almost all your clips from inception I am very keen on updates and really appreciate them so please keep them coming! Wonder if there's are updates on thermo projects, possibly closed loop?!?
Well.... let us just hope that the technique doesn't hide any bad stuff, is easily commercialized and helps some cleaner industrial production of carbonates and everything sooner rather than later. I think things like these need to be viewed with some healthy skepticism. If they have some good success I won't mind.
The system is still closed-loop- it's just that Agora has a broad enough vision to recognize the system has a meta-structure that includes the feedstock into the reaction and the carbonate reaction product AS USED (resold, or even retained inhouse to pave the parking lots and facility roads, etc...
As always… thanks Dave for another interesting and inspiring video. Oh, and for your sense of humour.. Both of which make Mondays, on my side of the globe, that little bit more pleasant.. 👍🏽
Another great video. Thanks, Dave. Have you given any thoughts to doing a video on microbial fuel cells? They were 'hot' a decade ago, and I wonder if any company is attempting to capitalize on that technology.
Thanks for another interesting video. But like others have already asked, where does the feed sodium/potassium hydroxide enter into the picture? Maybe the overall energetic/economic/ecologic balance still all works out brilliantly! Or not. Perhaps a subject to be included in your next update on this tech?
A lot of positives it would seem 👍 I did wonder if there was a stringent requirement on how clean the CO2 input needs to be. Does that present cost challenges or is it where contaminants can enter and degrade the cycle life? Even so certainly one to keep on the radar 😀
One of the best energy storage systems is a tree, another really good one is grain. Both keep pretty well and have almost no toxic environmental effects.
A really cost-effective flow battery would be a great breakthrough that would ameliorate the intermittency of renewable energy. I hope it will be able to achieve grid scale quickly.
Hi Dave more good work and I for one prefer to take an optimistic view on emerging technology😁. By the way will we see you at the northern show in Harrogate?
Encouragement by governments to get the larger CO2 emitting industry companies to invest or collaborate with these Flow battery companies where they get advantages of more reliable power at their production sites.
Here's an "Explain Like I'm 5" abstract of the transcript about redox flow batteries: *What's a battery?* * A battery stores energy like a big lunchbox holds your food. * Normal batteries keep all their energy inside, just like your lunchbox. * Special batteries called "flow batteries" store their energy juice in big tanks and use pumps to move the juice around. *What's special about this flow battery?* * Instead of using special metals, this battery uses bubbly gas you breathe out (carbon dioxide). * This gas is usually bad for the world, but this battery catches it from factories. * While storing energy, the battery also makes something like baking powder that people use to make lots of stuff! *Why is this battery cool?* * It helps clean up bad air. * It stores lots of energy, like a big lunchbox. * It makes something useful while it works. *Is it perfect?* * No, it's still new and scientists are working on it, like a new recipe. * It needs careful helpers because it uses some strong liquids. *What now?* * Scientists need help to build bigger versions of this battery. * It won't be in your toys soon, but maybe one day it will help keep the lights on in your whole town! *Abstract* This transcript describes a new type of redox flow battery that offers several advantages over traditional models: * *Captures Carbon Dioxide:* Instead of using metals, this battery uses carbon dioxide (CO2) captured from industrial emissions, helping reduce greenhouse gases. * *Produces Valuable Products:* During the discharge process, the battery turns CO2 into carbonates and bicarbonates, which are useful in various industries (soaps, animal feed, glassmaking etc.) * *Promising Lab Results:* Lab tests show high energy density and potentially low costs due to inexpensive CO2. * *Challenges:* The technology isn't yet commercially available and needs careful handling due to the use of acid and bromine. * *Need for Investment:* Despite winning awards, the company (Agora Energy) needs more investment to scale up production. Overall, this carbon dioxide redox flow battery shows promise in both energy storage and carbon capture, making it an exciting technology for a more sustainable future. i used gemini
Wait, is this an energy storage option or a power source? If the CO2 is used up to create the Carbonate, then it is a power source, right? Also, I just looked at that paper... the 284Wh/kg number is just the fluids, so it doesn't compare to lithium ion, it needs tanks and pumps and stuff... But that number is only really important if you plan to make it portable...
@@gregbailey45 Sorry, that doesn't really clear up my confusion. If it were to function as a battery, then the process would be reversible, correct? But if the carbonate is used as a product on it's own, that would mean it is extracted and thus there cannot be a reverse process... If I'm missing something please do elaborate.
ohhhh! new toy for the Energy Reservation concept. A place to put the carbon dioxide from the various carbon neutral stuff. Another step to close the loop. Attaching this to a steel smelter or similar coal fired plant might be a good idea. A fairly "Cheap" solution that would be incredibly useful to Germany to up theeffiviency of their lignite coal plants.
Dear David, thank you for the next great THINK, I am looking forward to the change of mindset when money and effort will be invested in the REDUCTION OF ENERGY and PRODUCT WASTING first, this is what INDUSTRY 5.0 principles do for 11 years already
My thought as soon as you mentioned the (solid) carbonate was to bury it as sequestered carbon rather than return it to the industrial carbon cycle where it is liable to end up in the atmosphere anyway. Sounds like there is plenty of more-or-less well reasoned skepticism to overcome first though.
So this would be a great additional business for chemical companies while at the same time storing energy for their own industrial processes... Very interesting!!! Shouldn't Agora knock on the doors of BASF and the likes?
Dear Dave,
I hope this note finds you in good spirits. I wanted to take a moment to express my heartfelt gratitude for the incredible content you create on your RUclips channel. Your unique blend of humour and expertise on sustainable technologies has not only entertained me but also educated and inspired me to make positive changes in my own life.
Your videos always manage to bring a smile to my face, and I appreciate how you effortlessly infuse humour into complex subjects like renewable energy, waste reduction, and eco-friendly practices. You have a remarkable talent for making even the most daunting topics accessible and enjoyable to learn about.
Beyond your entertaining style, I am truly grateful for the knowledge and insights you share. Your expertise in sustainable technologies has opened my eyes to the possibilities and importance of embracing a greener lifestyle. Your videos have motivated me to explore renewable energy options, reduce my carbon footprint, and make more conscious choices in everyday life.
I wanted to take this opportunity to thank you for using your platform to promote sustainability and environmental awareness. Your dedication to spreading knowledge while keeping things lighthearted is commendable and incredibly impactful. You have created a community of like-minded individuals who, thanks to your influence, are working towards a more sustainable future.
Once again, thank you, Dave, for the incredible content you produce and the positive impact you have on your viewers. Your humour and expertise are a winning combination, and I eagerly look forward to each new video you release.
Very well said! I couldn't agree more. Dave, your commitment and intellectual, open-minded rigor in investigating and analyzing prospective "solutions" to our urgent predicament is a truly great gift to all who join you in this essential learning adventure.
Yes yes couldn't have put it better, bravo this man. Dave you can do no wrong! Thanks mate.
Flow batteries soud great for stationary storage. This one adds another dimension- shows there are not just primary benefits, but secondary and perhaps tertiary reaction products we could utilize. Save Lithium for mobile applucations where weight matters.
Yeah and focus on lithium air. Potentially having up to12,000 kwh/kg if we can take the oxyogen out of the air which blows all the other battery chemistries out or the water. Half that if oxyogen needs to be included.
Actually stationary storage is what we need most of all if we want to make Wind and Solar generation efficient and practical on a large scale. Currently with wind if supply is greater than the demand we feed some of it back into the wind generator to slow it down which wastes electricity and also wastes the energy in the wind. With solar there is the problem of no generation at all during low light and night time.
The breakthrough in clean energy will not come from the source of generation but in the ability to store all the available energy for later use
@@longjohn526well said
Totally agree, I cringe to see people using lithium based batteries for grid storage, not environmentally sustainable when there are better alternatives
This is one of those technologies I really hope succeeds at industrial scale
Yeah, a battery that has baking soda as a bye product sounds very cool.
@@tijljappens7953
"Yeah, a battery that has baking soda as a buy product sounds very cool." Fixed that for ya.
@@digiryde You fixed it wrongly, I meant to say by-product.
@@tijljappens7953 "You fixed it wrongly, I meant to say by-product."
lol - I know, but i really meant a product that others can buy.
keep up these update videos. love them
Thanks, will do!
Given the clearly flakey energy storage and carbon capture proposals that seem to attract substantial investment the fact that this hasn’t is something of a red flag and suggestive that there may be even more significant hurdles to overcome before such a system can be a reality.
But it is great that there is a channel that keeps us abreast of these developments and provides updates. Never apologise for revisiting past innovations Dave, it’s the thing that sets this channel apart from all other media.
It isn't necessarily a red flag. Here in Canada we don't have much of a venture capital sector. There are firms, but they're smaller and much more risk adverse than what you'd see in the US. If Agora manages to get backing from outside the country, then domestic investment will probably be easier to find.
@@Kevin_Street📣 LOUDER FOR THE COUNTRIES IN THE BACK 📣 😅
The volume of high-risk investment cash in Canada is abysmal when compared to other jurisdictions.
This channel only covers red-flag level techno-speculation.
Also, they're in Vancouver, while all the hardcore CCUS advocates are in Alberta, Saskatchewan, and Newfoundland. If Agora was based in Calgary you know the UCP would be flinging money at them in an attempt to greenwash their politics...
As a Canadian I wouldn't poo poo this project as Canadian investors are notoriously behind and skittish in investing, period. Let's give it some more time and hopefully, proper funding.
I've no illusion that I'm benefiting anyone with wisdom. I comment to help out the algorithm, and to make sure I understand what the video is saying. It helps a lot.
Anyway, thank you for another great video. This is a really clever idea, and for once it's fairly close to home! Agora Energy Technologies is a Vancouver startup, so just on the other side of the mountains.
It does sound clever. Energy storage and/or carbon capture. It seems like the best place for these batteries is an industrial park, where some of them could regulate the electricity coming in and others could be put to work making carbonate. If I understand right, the main reason industries don't capture CO2 from their own smokestacks is because it costs money. If they can sell the carbonate that could potentially make the equipment pay for itself.
Those secondary/tertiary market opportunities could make for ‘zero-cost’ or low cost installation for sure! I’m in Alberta, and it would be great to have a facility out here pulling from refineries or concrete plants.
Yea, the algorithm.
@@andrewharrison8436Al 🕺 Gore 🕺 Rhythm 🕺
One of the reasons I really love this channel is that it makes things feel real - there is no neo-liberal, tech bro optimism - but it spends a lot of time going through the many, many different technologies that are being researched and optimised. Particularly storage tech. Many don't involve the usual suspects in terms of battery tech, and some aren't even highly toxic for either extraction or recycling at end-of-life. And there are LOTS of them. 95% of them will fail completely and 80% of the rest will be too expensive to make a meaningful difference. Many of those that could really make a change might take a couple of decades more to get there.
But what that all means is that actually, at least for the energy thing, we aren't doomed. 1% of 1000 is 10, and that's probably enough. It's not all relying on lithium and traditional solar panels, and that means we could actually force miners and manufacturers to keep to some minimum standards and still make some meaningful progress in terms of volume.
What about copper though? Is that going to be one of those "hard" problems that physics is going to stubbornly stop us getting proper alternatives to?
Aluminium is a quite popular substitute nowadays. It is used quite a bit in transformers in lieu of copper. It's in almost inexhaustible quantities in the crust.
@@gregbailey45indeed, take copper clad aluminum network cable or the aluminum ground cable that powers my house since 1976(!)
I have listened to the end... thank you for this analysis of this new redox system, your video recharged my "Hope for the future" battery well !!
I see what you did there.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Thanks Dave!
Thank you as always for your top notch presentations. You always give me hope. Don't let the skeptics get you down. Keep up the good work!
I appreciate that!
Promising stuff. Yes, do indeed keep us updated, please.
Going in the right direction. Cheers, Dave
Cheers Martin
Very encouraging development. Thanks for the insight.
It would make sodium carbonate as the byproduct if fed sodium hydroxide. The separatog would be a proton exchange membrane and bromide/HBr/ Br2 would be the anode side. The materials needed to work with elemental bromine and HBr would be challenging, but SiC/graphite on a metal oxide/ tantalum plated collector should work well. Ordinary stainess steel coated with palladium of patinum loaded carbon would work for the cathode side. In an open cycle, the battery would be charged by creating bicarbonate that creates formate and carbonate as power is being drawn. The formate is the actual chemical created as it runs. Other than the small amounts of precious metals needed it seems like a good idea as formic acid is a useful chemical feedstock.
Amazing! Love all your reports, Dave! 🎉😊
Good morning from New Zealand. I'm watching this over my morning coffee - before setting off to work. An extra pick-me-up. TIA 😁
Glad to help. Have a good day :-)
Me too.
Thank you for the commentary.
It has an excellent name.
Thankyou for keeping us informed.
Well that was brilliant. And exciting. You do such a fantastic job of finding and explaining these potentially outstanding solutions to the problems we face.
Thanks again
People typing reactions before the video ends is a good thing as far the the youtube algorithm is concerned 😂 its called "engagement"
Ohh - rats - I'm late.
I have just love this series of episodes that have a hopeful outlook on things we could soon see in action! Keep up your great work.
Dave,
I always enjoy and learn something from your technology reviews.
This is yet another very interesting subject which I appreciate your coverage of.
I truly regret not being able to attend any of the Fully Charged / Everything Electric Shows or experience one of your live talks.
Keep up the great work.
I still like the compressed co2 storage system like energydome made. cheap and simple.
I have the reverse of that, as in idea... A vacuum battery 🔋 😅
@@dandantheideasmanthat sucks :P
Yeah. It's like LAES but without having to maintain air filters. Apparently that maintenance cost has been surprisingly high.
@@TuttleScottyeah, vacuum sucks!
A demonstrator of Energy Dome has been running for some time, proving that it works. A full scale 20MW/200MWh is currently under construction, due to be operational before the end of the year. None of the low temperature hassels of compressed air storage, and all standard equipment in the build.
Thanks Dave for bringing this rater exciting news to my attention. I look forward to future developments in this field of this battery - it looks like a win win solution to energy storage with a very useful by-product during the process!
Excellent coverage, my brain is a little bit fuller now !
Not a bad solution and I hope it works out well.
Wow! Carbon conversion, storage, energy producer! This is the best tech advancement I've heard of all year!
Storage yes, production, no.
Well, I have no wisdom to offer, but I truly enjoy your content, and your presentation style. You're not full oh hype, you do a good job of explaining some complex technology in a very accessible way. Thank You.
Top vid, as always Dave 👍
Thanks again Dave.
Cheers Pete.
You need to calculate and add the source of alkaline you use to neutralize the CO2 into Carbonate.....so it does not hold water unless you find a free source to raise the pH ..and since it does not use CaO which is likely the cheapest you may have to use hydroxide ...which you use electricity to produce 🙂
If you would find a process than could make hydroxide at a higher than 100% efficiency then you could net store CO2 with this "flow battery". But since every real hydroxide production is less than 100% (not even close!) this whole setup is a joke that is a net CO2 producer! morons...
Your bitter comment could be used to raise the pH.
The above comment was made in jest, you raise a crucial point.
Not sure how you get two negative ions to react. Sodium hydroxide plus hydrogen carbonate will yield sodium carbonate plus water. That works but costs.
@@dennisware1136 You can change the ORP by changing pH, but you spend the OH- in this proces
@@ricos1497that would lower the ph, not raise it...
Love your presentation style. One of my favorite channels. Thx for posting.
Always good to watch your video, very insightful and easy to understand!! 😀
Thank you for consistently turning up interesting topics.
Thanks also for welcoming the folks that have different opinions!
Great news, thank you.
Love videos like this! Such a cool piece of tech. Wishing them luck in seeing this commercialized
Outstanding presentation
Seems pretty amazing.
Diamonds in the rough, we need options and helpful to know of them.
Thanks
Interesting. If it works they can also sell carbon credits to other companies. Might actually be feasible.
Thanks for another terrific video!
Fascinating Tech. Will keep an eye on this one….
Thanks Dave. One issue with that cells useful byproducts is that they are used elsewhere and the CO₂ is released back into the atmosphere. For instance, Sodium Bicarbonate is often used in baking as a raising agent, reacting with an acid, to produce a salt, plus the CO₂ which raises the baked product.There is no net reduction of the greenhouse gas. (Unless it's then pumped into greenhouses? 😉)
This could be the best transition method I've seen for dirty energy. It would allows that slow ramp down of coal power plants while offering also offering green energy a method for the public to trust transitioning to it. I like it!
Promising….. Many Thanks!
Always love your videos! Keep up the good work!
thx alot for this video!
energy density dosent matter in the case of Stationary Grid scale storage.
It just needs to be cheap.
this looks promising, as there is no expensive elements in it like Vanadium.
Looking forward to seeing a follow up on this in perhaps 12 or 18 months. Thanks
Hello Dave,
Thanks for the video.
You have reviewed a lot of energy production and storage systems.
They have gone a bit blurry now.
Suggestions to masters is often not a good idea but if you had a rankings system and leader board I think it would help clarify their positions of potential to succeed.
Thanks again, best to you and yours mate.
I'm afraid the bonus solid carbonate is not necessarily special. As you mentioned it requires a high pH, eg by adding lime or in its stronger sodium form, caustic soda. That costs energy to make and money to buy. It may lead to scaling of the electrode. The CO2 could have been made to react with such basic chemicals in the 1st place, irrespective of the presence of a flow battery. So this seems like the stacking of proven technology sold as something new, unless the battery discharging and the way the CO2 then becomes available will substantially simplify the precipitation to a carbonate.
Right on! This is completely stupid idea that makes more CO2 ( during hydroxide production ) than it "stores" in carbonates. I hate that this rubbish gets even the slightest attention. Does really nobody understand the most basic chemistry???
Seaborg uses steel that handles caustic soda at 600 C . The electrode could be made of such steel.
It looks like they need 3 times as much Potasium Hydroxide (KOH) as the Potasium Carbonate (KCO3) made. Both chemicals sell for about $1k a ton, so they are loosing money on the chemical conversion process itself. The electical 'storage' (a bit of a stretch as it seems most of the energy release is from the input chemicals) would need to cover the loss which seems really unlikely.
@kennethferland5579 "potasium" lol
"Loosing" lol.
I find it hard to trust commenters who can't spell.
Or you could manufacture NaOH from seawater using renewable energy, with a serving of Chlorine for good measure. No CO² output required.
Agora in Portuguese means "now ". Clever, eh? Rock on, Dave! 🎉😊
It also means “marketplace” or “square” in Latin, hence “agoraphobic”.
@@andrewmole745 Good to know. Thanks! 😃
Thank you, fingers crossed.
Thank you very interesting to learn new stuff
Great show as usual
“Yeah, I did!” Lmao
I continue to enjoy "Just Have a Think". This Agora Energy, CO2 redox battery and all of the attendant cost payback really looks like great investment--on many fronts. 80+y/o techie.
Really enjoy your videos! Thank you for the information and entertainment:-)
Great video as usual 👌
Well, a new battery is better than incontinent penguins , Dave
Can't we have both?
I think I'll get this printed on a t-shirt
I had to pause you there, and no, not about to rant.
You could place this on a HGV, as the vehicle is moving from the source of the CO2 it could power itself with the energy created and then drop off the Carbonate where it is needed.
Another wee snack for the grey jello upstairs 🤔
Love your work, keep it up and thank you 🙏🏼☺️
I don't think this process creates energy. It's a battery.
@@incognitotorpedo42 It is a generator. CO2 in as the fuel source, energy created and Carbonate as the exhaust.
This will need a transformer to up the voltage though 😉
Should be a no brainer for every existing Na2CO3 producer. If it works we will see it soon when those producers invest in it.
It's the Carbonate price drop . There lobbyist fight extra dirty? That's why the funding is slow?
This concept reminds me of a concept launched in the 1980s: Reduce acid rain by extracting the sulphoric compounds from power plant emissions in such a way that the result becomes commercial quantities of plaster of Paris, which is instantly formed into sheets of drywall .
Gracias
Thanks for telling Dave? If this works and is not a scam it's great and as I see it would provide enough stiffness to allow for a series of e g wind turbines or solar panels to stabilize electric power networks. You got yourself a new subscriber...
I hope this tech gets the backing it needs to get into production. Sounds like it has good potential. Thanks for the great videos!😊
Thanks
Love this!! Thanks David! Sorry - I didn't catch how the carbonate is converted into sodium bicarbonate?
Really really interesting! 👏👏 i closely follow other Publicy Traded Companies on battery and Storage tech, really promising like Amprius Technology woth their silicon anode battery cell with 500 Wh/kg Energy density, Energy Vault with their multi-tecnology approach and Gravity Based Storage, ESS with iron flow based Redox Flow battery and EOSE with zinc base flow battery!
This is not what I thought, which was a lame carbon capture scheme. But this looks cool and it should be explored more. Thank you!
This sounds like a perfect match for the Frankfurt chemical area as they have all components together. They have CO2 and a demand for energy and carbonates and they have the technology and tons of experience in handling all substances as required, as this is what they do all the time there.
Hi Dave, from Canada! I stumbled onto your channel during Covid and look forward to every Sunday to view your clips. I'm a recently retired police officer but have always been interested in the pursuit of new sustainable energy inventions and it gives me some hope for the future for my kids and grandkids. As I have viewed almost all your clips from inception I am very keen on updates and really appreciate them so please keep them coming! Wonder if there's are updates on thermo projects, possibly closed loop?!?
Great channel!
Glad you enjoy it!
Thanks you for the extra Humour this episode. Another really interesting development. Why is the money not available for prototypes
Cheers Ed. I'm not sure what the funding issue is, but I hope they overcome it.
Well.... let us just hope that the technique doesn't hide any bad stuff, is easily commercialized and helps some cleaner industrial production of carbonates and everything sooner rather than later. I think things like these need to be viewed with some healthy skepticism. If they have some good success I won't mind.
The system is still closed-loop- it's just that Agora has a broad enough vision to recognize the system has a meta-structure that includes the feedstock into the reaction and the carbonate reaction product AS USED (resold, or even retained inhouse to pave the parking lots and facility roads, etc...
Very good.
As always… thanks Dave for another interesting and inspiring video. Oh, and for your sense of humour.. Both of which make Mondays, on my side of the globe, that little bit more pleasant..
👍🏽
Interesting technology, what a way to utilise captured or surplus co2, just needs some seed investment...
Another great video. Thanks, Dave. Have you given any thoughts to doing a video on microbial fuel cells? They were 'hot' a decade ago, and I wonder if any company is attempting to capitalize on that technology.
Thanks for another interesting video. But like others have already asked, where does the feed sodium/potassium hydroxide enter into the picture? Maybe the overall energetic/economic/ecologic balance still all works out brilliantly! Or not. Perhaps a subject to be included in your next update on this tech?
A lot of positives it would seem 👍 I did wonder if there was a stringent requirement on how clean the CO2 input needs to be. Does that present cost challenges or is it where contaminants can enter and degrade the cycle life?
Even so certainly one to keep on the radar 😀
Thanks!
Thanks for your support. Much appreciated!
One of the best energy storage systems is a tree, another really good one is grain. Both keep pretty well and have almost no toxic environmental effects.
So to is coal and oil, if it's not burnt.
A really cost-effective flow battery would be a great breakthrough that would ameliorate the intermittency of renewable energy. I hope it will be able to achieve grid scale quickly.
the self-degrading humor gets me every time! lol
That... Sounds like a second stage genarator.
Which, is pretty great, honestly...
Many large cities and municipalities can invest in this and have backup energy when states are fighting over how grid power is maintained.
Hi Dave more good work and I for one prefer to take an optimistic view on emerging technology😁. By the way will we see you at the northern show in Harrogate?
Encouragement by governments to get the larger CO2 emitting industry companies to invest or collaborate with these Flow battery companies where they get advantages of more reliable power at their production sites.
Here's an "Explain Like I'm 5" abstract of the transcript about redox
flow batteries:
*What's a battery?*
* A battery stores energy like a big lunchbox holds your food.
* Normal batteries keep all their energy inside, just like your
lunchbox.
* Special batteries called "flow batteries" store their energy juice
in big tanks and use pumps to move the juice around.
*What's special about this flow battery?*
* Instead of using special metals, this battery uses bubbly gas you
breathe out (carbon dioxide).
* This gas is usually bad for the world, but this battery catches it
from factories.
* While storing energy, the battery also makes something like baking
powder that people use to make lots of stuff!
*Why is this battery cool?*
* It helps clean up bad air.
* It stores lots of energy, like a big lunchbox.
* It makes something useful while it works.
*Is it perfect?*
* No, it's still new and scientists are working on it, like a new
recipe.
* It needs careful helpers because it uses some strong liquids.
*What now?*
* Scientists need help to build bigger versions of this battery.
* It won't be in your toys soon, but maybe one day it will help keep
the lights on in your whole town!
*Abstract*
This transcript describes a new type of redox flow battery that offers
several advantages over traditional models:
* *Captures Carbon Dioxide:* Instead of using metals, this battery
uses carbon dioxide (CO2) captured from industrial emissions,
helping reduce greenhouse gases.
* *Produces Valuable Products:* During the discharge process, the
battery turns CO2 into carbonates and bicarbonates, which are useful
in various industries (soaps, animal feed, glassmaking etc.)
* *Promising Lab Results:* Lab tests show high energy density and
potentially low costs due to inexpensive CO2.
* *Challenges:* The technology isn't yet commercially available and
needs careful handling due to the use of acid and bromine.
* *Need for Investment:* Despite winning awards, the company (Agora
Energy) needs more investment to scale up production.
Overall, this carbon dioxide redox flow battery shows promise in both
energy storage and carbon capture, making it an exciting technology
for a more sustainable future.
i used gemini
Proud Canadian here!
A process that takes pollution and makes clean energy out of it, is a win win.
I hope this takes off… and soon.
Triple win if it flies so to speak 👍
Wait, is this an energy storage option or a power source? If the CO2 is used up to create the Carbonate, then it is a power source, right?
Also, I just looked at that paper... the 284Wh/kg number is just the fluids, so it doesn't compare to lithium ion, it needs tanks and pumps and stuff... But that number is only really important if you plan to make it portable...
No. It can only function as a battery, not a fuel cell.
@@gregbailey45 Sorry, that doesn't really clear up my confusion. If it were to function as a battery, then the process would be reversible, correct? But if the carbonate is used as a product on it's own, that would mean it is extracted and thus there cannot be a reverse process... If I'm missing something please do elaborate.
ohhhh! new toy for the Energy Reservation concept. A place to put the carbon dioxide from the various carbon neutral stuff. Another step to close the loop. Attaching this to a steel smelter or similar coal fired plant might be a good idea. A fairly "Cheap" solution that would be incredibly useful to Germany to up theeffiviency of their lignite coal plants.
For the algorithm!
Bcs good info should be spread.
Dear David, thank you for the next great THINK, I am looking forward to the change of mindset when money and effort will be invested in the REDUCTION OF ENERGY and PRODUCT WASTING first, this is what INDUSTRY 5.0 principles do for 11 years already
My thought as soon as you mentioned the (solid) carbonate was to bury it as sequestered carbon rather than return it to the industrial carbon cycle where it is liable to end up in the atmosphere anyway.
Sounds like there is plenty of more-or-less well reasoned skepticism to overcome first though.
It looks feasible economically, if you ask me.
So this would be a great additional business for chemical companies while at the same time storing energy for their own industrial processes... Very interesting!!! Shouldn't Agora knock on the doors of BASF and the likes?
0:33 Nearly choked to death laughing. Nice you can have a laugh at yourself.