Interestingly the German equivalent to the ETW30 (the "30 Zone") explicitly bans advisory lanes as well ("any lane markings are prohibited") - not sure why. Maybe "lost in translation" back in the 80s. The double meaning of "strook" (which got translated as "Streifen") for the lane and the line works in Dutch as well? The trick around here is to only build a 30 section (like a school zone) and then you can add any regulation you want.
I think a better solution (but still bad) would to be to call this a "fiets straat" and paint it like a bike path. At least you do not create the suggestion the road is mainly meant for cars. However still not a fan of this. Definitely better ways to deal with this.
I remember when my teacher in elementary school told us in traffic class: 'Het is geen fietsPAD, het is een fietsSTROOK'. I always understood the difference very well, and I think most Dutchies do. As a car you can use the strook whenever there's no bike. But when there is a bike, you need to stay off the strook. As a cyclist it feels safe, as you feel somewhat protected. You have a designated area that is yours when you're there. When you're not there others (cars) can use it, and to me that's totally fine. It's efficient use of space that provides some extra protection for bikes without having to completely remodel the street or ban all cars. Because even in the Netherlands there are limits to that. Another pro of the fietsstrook is that it optically narrows the road, so it slows down cars. Maybe it's perfect example of a 'polder'-solution. It doesn't completely favour one side over the other. Everyone gives and takes a little 'en je doet het er maar mee'. I don't think it's unwillingness to deal with the situation. I think it's a very adequate solution for the situation. It's perfect for nobody but all parties get something out of it. I love it.
I came to this conclusion about network issues in my neighborhood(the gridded streets of San Francisco's Sunset District). On Kirkham between 19th and 7th Ave, the MTA tested "Slow Streets" during pandemic lockdowns, which only blocked one lane to "suggest" traffic calming, and found that thru drivers, rather than respecting the suggestion, aggressively slalomed through Kirkham to traverse between 19th and 7th(both major corridors), knocking over the signs. They went in the direction of reverting the change instead of pushing for a full barrier. The streets did succeed in a few other places in the city, but the motorist reluctance to give up this particular cut-over was high, and I can see the same kind of issue taking place with the Heemraadssingel. But the overall network problem, which is "every street in the Sunset is equally a thru street", is easy to fix through careful application of barriers. Gridded cities are very amenable to this change - it doesn't create an issue over how to allocate the road space and carve out lanes for different users - they just need to overcome some political concerns and practical issues with emergency services access etc.
You’re right, the problem with narrow streets that people start to trust over the weeks/months/years is that most in the US are built in a straight path which still causes speeding and the solution is to add raised intersections, raised crossings for alleys and add unexpected obstacles and also make the lanes as narrow as possible but sadly minimum lane width in the manuals limits this.
The overall network problem is that people feel the need to drive through busy city traffic instead of parking somewhere accessible on the outskirts and taking public transport to wherever they need to be in the city. Whatever you do isnt going to fix traffic as long as it involves cars going into the city center and parking there.
you don't even have to move the bus stations. you could just place a "bussluis" in (somewhere around) the midlle of the street, that way cars can't use it as a shortcut and busses (and emergency vehicles) can still use the whole street. you're able to either put in a raised platform (like a speedbump) that is to wide for cars the pas over but small enough for busses (but then police and ambulances couldn't pas either) or you use those move able triangles that disappear into the ground when allowed vehicles (busses and emergency vehicles) approach. the 2nd option would be (in my opinion) the best solution here, and it doesn't even cost that much to install.
you can, and that would still be a big improvement. But bus stops arent supposed to be on an ETW either, so I went for the most " ideal" solution. Stroomfunctie is still a stroom fuctie even if its a bus
We have that in Amstelveen. Larger cars, like SUV's, simply drive over the raised platforms. Smaller cars think they can and then get stuck. Likewise, many cars get stuck in the 'bussluis' especially at night.
1:33 small overview about our speedlimites BiBeKo (binnen de bebouwde kom - inside city limits) -ETW - 30KMH -GOW - 50KMH -SW - 70KMH there is going to be an new type of road introduced, the GOW 30, which (surprizingly) has a speed limit of 30 KMH. This street is supposed to become the default speed limit in all cities. This means the GOW - 50 is going to dissapear in most places and changed to GOW - 30. Its an interesting topic to talk about considering it has up- and downsides. BuBeKo (buiten de bebouwde kom - outside the city limits) -ETW - 60KMH -GOW - 80KMH -SW - 100/130KMH 4:07 not really (any color isnt ok), as it contradicts Duurzaam Veilig. It has a design principle that every road and function should be clearly recognizable and compatable (yes, the GOW - 30 will be a negative infliction on both of these parts sadly) to show drivers what behavior wegbeheerders expect from them and it prevents confusion. This improves safety a lot.
This is starting to be done lots in the UK, retrofitting older neighbourhoods with traffic filters to create low traffic neighbourhoods. However there is a lot of motorists complaining about them, causing traffic and the government recently removed them from projects that they will fund for active travel.
Same thing is going on all over canada, i think the political setbacks will be less in the near future since a lot more younger generations want and see the advantages of sustainable transportation and being able to get around real easy.
I honestly think the only reason low traffic neighborhoods are controversial is because they're given such a fancy name. The actual name for them are modal filters, and they can be found in quite a few places around the UK. You might also find different examples such as bus gates. If they weren't made such a big deal there might be some complaints from residents but at the end of the day they likely would simply be part of normal life, nothing special. It's really upsetting (but also relatively unsurprising given our incumbent) that the UK Government is being so pro motorist. I remember in early march the government did an investigation into the effectiveness of LTNs and they had to manipulate the conclusion to fit with their hypothesis which was revealed during a leak. It really is a big shame.
This is so well thought out, thank you for the explanation. I moved to the Netherlands as well, and I've definitely experienced that Rotterdam and streets in general with the tiny on street "bike lanes" on each side are always so unpleasant.
Heemraadsingel should still allow for through bus traffic, the deviations on the number 44 route are already crazy weird, this extra spike to the west would make it absolutely crazy
Agreed, but I think we could agree a lot of that comes from all the space given to the least efficient way of getting around. You could make compromises here but I also wanted to present the “ideal” solution to illustrate what function is meant for.
yea, its an extra step that makes the design even more wrong, but i wanted to explain why you so often see the red lanes on the outside before adding another step to explain for people. CROW IS jsut a design guide but since theres not any design you technically have to follow, it holds a lot more weight than a regular "design standard"
Great video! Your videos are getting better with each one. It would have been cool to see how the other street dealt with through traffic. Did they just build a bollard? Or did they use other mechanisms like chicanes? Would love to see a video on street transformations - i know Amsterdam is changing their streets with parking, to be ones with seating areas, tiny playgrounds, bike parking, garden/green space etc. Do such additions make it easier or harder to bike through? I’d imagine harder to bike through, because of all the people on the street, but I could be wrong. Also would be cool to see a video on how NL handles mixing transit (buses, trams) with bikes/bike lanes. Looking forward to the next video!
The other street (Hooidrift I think) a rougher brick road surface, some chicanes and raised intersections/speedbumps. One way streets are also a method often used to prevent through traffic in these tiny neighbourhoods/superblocks. IMO one of the main reasons these streets see very little throug traffic is that they are not the fastest route to the other side. Closing of Heemraadsingel would probably divert some traffic through the smaller streets rather than around the neighbourhood. All the traffic calming has hardly any effect on cycling. It is not great for road bikes, but hardly anyone uses those anyway. These streets are near exclusively residential. There are not enough people on the streets to be an issue for cycling.
Because they removed a lot of car parking and still in the process of doing so means that streets get way less busy since people can enter and exit the street way easier and faster. So biking though those streets is even more pleasing and faster then before but this can still differ depending on the environment and other things.
anytime you are in a built up area and you see a paved surface with paving stone or asphalt without center striping you are very likely looking at an ETW30
Or... put a "bussluis" in the middle. That way local traffic can still get there from either the Vierambachtstraat or the Mathenesserlaan, but they can't get from one side to the other, but busses and bicycles still can.
you can, and that would still be a big improvement. But bus stops arent supposed to be on an ETW either, so I went for the most " ideal" solution. Stroomfunctie is still a stroom fuctie even if its a bus
@@anubizz3 once a city is good for cycling, public transit becomes primarily a service for disabled people. While it's still important, you must be careful not to prioritize it over cycling.
Hey, i'm from Rotterdam and know the area very well, and to be honest I avoid cycling here unless i have to be at a specific location in that area because it's always chaotic. (there's a reason we call it the wild west) However the plan you suggest in the video about blocking at one end would not work in this case for a couple of reasons: The first is the bus line, which actually comes from the other part of the Heemraadssingel, and follows the road all the way through to Mathenesserlaan, the bus does the same on the other side of the Heemraadssingel and connects back to Rotterdam Noord. Diverting these two stops, or four if you count both sides of the singel, would cause a diversion of at least 5 minutes ride time on the bus if there is no traffic and 20/30 minutes if there is traffic. That brings me to the second point of why blocking the road would not be a great idea: Traffic, Mathenesserlaan and Vierambachtsstraat are both very busy 2 lane streets with street level tramlines, almost every tram going west of the city center travels through Vierambachtsstraat. During rushhour these streets become completely blocked, because they both end up at Mathenesserplein where traffic is further diverted to more directions. Which is why Heemraadssingel is the way it is; it's a diversion street for cars that need to go in a specific direction that don't necessarily require staying on M'Laan or Vierambachtsstraat. It is a direct north/south connection from Rotterdam Noord all the way down to Coolhaven and relieves the west/east bound traffic. what you suggest is great, and used in many other situations with great result, but it simply would cause more harm than good in this case.
I learn a lot from the videos made by "foreigners"! I had never heard of a "suggestion strook" although I use these streets quite often, by car or bike. I lived at the Heemraadsplein for 11 years. My best friends live at the Hooidrift where you also filmed. I reckon foreigners might feel intimidated by the cars that are passing by high speed (as a matter of fact, I sometimes hear comments on that in other video's, but i reckon Dutch bikers are used to it? It doesn"t bother me, personally. Thanks for sharing !
I think you need to zoom out a bit more to understand the context of the Heemraadssingel. The traffic between Vierambachtstraat / 2e Middellandstraat and Mathenesserlaan is just a small part of the traffic. A lot of it (in this particular street) is traffic which already came from Van Aerssenlaan as an easy way to go south to Rochussenstraat. The solution isn't to push even more traffic through the congested single-lane Vierambachtsstraat, but to make that traffic take the Aelbrechtskade instead. BTW, at the moment Heemraadssingel would fit GOW30 more than ETW30. It's one of many roads blindly converted from 50 to 30 without adjusting the layout of the road.
The "Westzijde" in Zaandam is also an interesting case with the same issue. You may find it interesting too. Lots of through traffic and cyclists on a narrow street. Over the whole length of the street (which is quite long) it seems like they've tried all options. 50km/h with bike lanes (too narrow), 30km/h without bike lanes (too busy), 50km/h with suggestiestroken (idk why), separated bike lane in one direction only (???), 50km/h but put up a blue sign with a suggested speed limit of 30km/h so you're allowed to put bicycle symbols on the suggestiestroken (smart, but cheating)...
These bits of red asphalt are called "FIETSsuggestiestroken", which you are meant to cycle on as long as you can cycle "as far to the right as possible". You don't have to commit to the lanes when you're the left one in a side by side cyclist duo. I agree with the fact it doesn't belong in an ETW30, which should only be used in build-up areas and not on through streets, which should be GOW. I wouldn't necessarily say that you need to move the bus route. You can impliment barriers that prevent cars from crossing, but not buses. It's called a "bussluis", or a more expensive way to do it: a "poller".
@@buildthelanes hes wrong. U named them correct. They are suggestiestroken. Its a fietsstrook (with legal status recognizable with a painted bike on the asphalt/pavement) or a suggestiestrook (without legal status), they have the same purpose though
@@buildthelanesI stand corrected. I think I'm wrong about the actual name. You are correct that it is "suggestiestroken". I work in this field for a couple of years now, but I still don't know every legal term for everything.
@@corneetjeuh they don’t have the same laws though. Suggestie stroken allow for cars to temporarily park in them while fietsstroken never allow for cars to be parked in them.
I agree that your suggestions would make this street better, however, if you do this to enough streets, then what do you do about the issue that all the traffic gets funnelled into a fewer and fewer main roads and congestion builds up there? It feels like all you're doing is moving traffic from one place to another, but is there evidence to suggest that doing this has the opposite effect of induced demand, and that overall traffic actually reduces? If not, how is the additional traffic dealt with on the main roads? And don't residents on those roads complain about the extra noise, pollution and congestion?
Looking at the map at 5:24 unless they've done the same to all the side roads between the two main roads, all you'll do is push the problem along to the next road. Where I live people who live in LTNs have complained about it taking longer to get to/from their homes and it has increased congestion on the main roads that the traffic has been forced onto
Neat true crime episode with the viewer as the detective ;) spoilers down below. I was surprised when the suspect was simply to block off vehicle traffic. My initial guess was that a whole street reprioritising or reclassification was needed. I couldn’t really understand your thinking until you mentioned that ETW30 is designed for local traffic. Not through traffic. I have a question though. Would a modal filter that allows buses but blocks cars (bus trap) be an acceptable solution to this problem too? Awesome video! Once again you taught something new in a fun way!
you definitely could, but ETWs arent supposed to have bus stops either. because its hard for kids to play in the streeet when a bus comes every 10 minutes
@@buildthelanes Interesting! That answers my question entirely It’s such a slippery slope mentally wanting to service as many different kinds of travel… only to make it worse for everyone involved! Total focus is required when getting down into details like individual streets. :)
Alternatively, one could elect to upgrade the Heemraadsingel to a GOW, ie. with separted lanes further away from the "rooilijn" with a bi-directional bicycle lane as a separator between the side walk and motor vehicle traffic. In order to make the street nonetheless psychological longer to traverse, it is possibel to design it deliberately impeded i.e. by means of narrowed parking bays and speed ramps that do affect the speed with which cars can travel but not bus transport.
Honestly a lot of these things would also be solved if navigation apps simply didn't route you through streets like this. Also, I don't think they've done this anywhere in the country yet but they could use a "closed statement" with an exception only for local traffic on either side. But I suppose that might add confusion. Which is probably also the reason it hasn't been done before
They have a closed statement in Zwolle. The Kerkstraat. Only enforced by camera that scan license plates. However there are residences there. The road is still free to use for busses, taxi, etc. It also make the route invalid in navigation apps. There are others, however they are all closed off with an retractable bollards. There are residences in those places and they can get access to to that. I think the latter might be a suitable option here as well. This would allow busses to still use the road as well. However maybe the throughput is to high for that.
How I would change the Heemraadssingel in Rotterdam. Looking North to South, remove the parking spots on the right side, create a bike path separated with a green patch. Change the parking spots on the left to 60 degree parking. That would make it only suitable for one way traffic, but it already is like that. The above would clean it up a lot.
"Thats some fast moving cars" *Looks outside at my residential street that is 2 metres from the front of my house as a Lifted Dodge Ram revs by at 65km/h* "Fuck my entire life"
By the way, the easiest solution to stopping traffic through a street in the Netherlands isn't to block off traffic with obstacles, it's to simply put up a sign that says "residential traffic only" on both ends. This would still allow people who live there to access the street from both ends, and 99% of drivers will respect such a sign without the need to put up any obstacles. Maybe in Rotterdam specifically it would be a bit less than 99%, they aren't the most respectful people in the country.
I've seen "No Thru Traffic" signs used in the US with only limited success. Americans regard such signs as infringements on their freedom, and police enforcement is difficult. The Dutch are more respectful of others.
Electric busses not so much, trolley busses and electric busses are better then electric busses since the batteries aren’t needed but it’s better the a diesel bus. I’m really looking forward to all of the other things to be true in more parts of the world.
Calling a city like Rotterdam "modern" and places like Utrecht more "traditional" seems to me an intentional missrepresentation for the sake of the framing of the video. the entire Flevopolder is more "modern" compared to Rotterdam and doesn't suffer the same issues. calling the 80's modern because they were more modern compared to the 60's misses the point we live in the 2000's now.
Cities need to do more to encourage people to ride bicycles. Safe protected bike lanes and trails are needed so adults and children can ride safely. Speak up for bicycles in your community. Bicycles make life and cities better. Ask your local transportation planner and elected officials to support more protected bike lanes and trails. Children should be riding a bicycle to school and not be driven in a minivan.
Not only make cycling more enjoyable and cooler by planing trees but also discourage driving by making driving a nightmare and just give them less space and respect overall.
I love the city Rotterdam better than Amsterdam. But I hate driving in Rotterdam 😬😁 "suggestiestroken" is "suggestion lanes". And "gemeente" is "municipality"
You wouldn't even need to move those busstops. You could place a so called "bussluis" or bus trap i think. Would be a great solution to make the city an even better place.
Lovely example of how context is everything. You can have the perfect road in isolation and it still gets ruined by cars because people can't be arsed to drive around it. This is why American cycle experiments frustrate me. No amount of speed bumps can save this road which is designated a street. It needs to be bollards. Also you have such an interesting accent. You say the vowels flawlessly like a native, but you pronounce the words like you've mainly seen them written so they're not always the right version of the vowel.
His pronunciation of the word: suggestiestrook, is a little off cause the G isn’t that dutch G if you know what i mean. Still he’s very good at dutch as it continues to improve 😁
@@miles5600 true, but it looks like an English loanword, in which case he'd be right. Im also thinking of 'gemeente'. In both cases they're pronunciations that could have been
You can make paid car traffic on such streets, just put up a payment terminal "You can drive as you like". There would be some money for the community for iteration events
Only one really big issue with blocking of road: Trucks and vans. Yes, they need to be their. Because where people life, goods have to go. Blocking streets of causes a lot of problems for deliveries and garbage-collection. Trucks need to backup into a street, making the entrance very dangerous for all traffic and vans have to turn in the streets (or also backup into it), making it dangerous for bikes and pedestrians. So no. Bad solution. Better solution is to make the street a one way direction road in the opposite direction most traffic flows.
The worst part is that the people being uncomfortable mixing are not people on bikes, but the through car drivers. So you add these "sugggestive" lines to get the bikes out of the way.
And if you want to keep the bus traffic there are ways to prevent through traffic by cars that will allow buses. Just make sure there is a car repair shop nearby, because people are idiots.
Hold on. So in your world, it’s the person driving at 45 km/hr in a protective metal shell who feels uncomfortable but not the 8 year old cycling on a tricycle who only has 1 meter of paint for protection. I want you to think for a moment about how stupid that sounds
@@buildthelanes i think they might mean it differently. As a driver I hate driving on a fietsstraat, it's very uncomfortable for me. As a cyclist I love a good fietsstraat. But there is a (temporary) fietsstraat in my area where they have streetlevel sidewalks and suggestiestroken. Cycling here is the worst since car drivers expect you to be in the suggestiestroken. Basically drivers (read: me as driver) prefer cyclists to have their own space. But cyclists (read: me as cyclist) prefer to have a clear mixed use or completely seperate bikelane.
Yes but as the video says, this environment was never meant to be driven through to begin with. The other route is much more “comfortable” for you and only takes 90 seconds longer
I don't understand why you use Dutch words for these things. And then abbreviate them. You can translate them to English, you know, they are not proper names. - Erftoegangsweg - Residential access road - Gemeente - Municipality - Fietssuggestiestrook - Bicycle advisory lane
This is just me, but hearing/reading the original terms repeatedly gives me a greater appreciation for these innovations and their Dutch origins, and now I know what keywords to look for when I'm looking up this info online and it's not fully translated 😂
Or the German sign "Anlieger Frei" which means only residence or people trying to reach adresses in the Zone,, this of course requieres german discipline.
So in Germany 30 Zones usally come with a "Anlieger Frei" sign which only allows local traffic so i was really confused when a 30 Zone was used as a mayor road ???
This street is fine, and the through traffic is good for clearing some congestion. Stop trying to ban cars, just let everyone travel around how they want. We can have walking, biking, transit and cars together, without getting rid of cars all together
The reason Rotterdam is so different, with modern architecture and car-centric design is that the Germans bombed it into complete ruins in the war, so it was redesigned from the ground up during the post-war car boom to be car-friendly, and we are still struggling with that legacy. Thankfully the city has a great underground metro system and train lines so you dont need a car to get anywhere, but it is less friendly to cyclists and pedestrians when youre on the streets.
These reddish “death lanes” positioning cyclists exactly in the position of opening car doors really are complete bs and without those the street could be modeled in a far more safe way. You talk about “moving bus stops” - If you plan to remove the bus line and prolong the travel time for OV passengers and maybe some extra costs for running more buses du to the longer ride of the line pls be so honest and SAY THIS. I guess it does not even need to be, as there are technical solutions for allowing buses to pass but block cars off as well. Often a “simple” solution does not reflect the complexity of a problem. It needs to be adressed from more than one point of view. You need a concept for an attractive routing for the #44 bus to solve it. “Forgetting” to keep or even make bus services more attractive when creating street concepts is a real issue. Please do not copy this mistake.
Or they could make it a thoroughfare, since people also have to do business and go places, not only the local residents have rights. There are plenty of crippled streets in the area as well, bike on those and refrain from ruining another road as well.
This isn’t a road. This is a travel surface made to prioritize the local residents. The quality of life for the people who live there is more valuable than one extra minute of your time. That’s why they built GOWs, so the through movement is on those
@@buildthelanes Nah, what I see is a road. You want no traffic, move in the mountains, there you won’t be disturbed by anyone except maybe some animals. Cities are made for people to access economic opportunities more easily and get business done, not to cater only to the interests of a tiny, yet overly vocal minority while crippling the situation for each and every one else, especially those paying the most tax who usually get almost nothing out of it.
Sounds good, hey I bought a boat and I really want to park it in front of your house. Oh also we set up a new logistical route that will have 3 semi trucks rolling through every hour through the neighborhood. If that sounds insane to you, sorry we’re just doing business, go move to the mountains
Interesting thing about a "fietssuggestiestrook": you can stop your car on it legally. If it actually has a bike symbol on it you cannot. Another thing people often forget is you can, and should, block cycling traffic near crossings with either cycling lanes or fietssuggestiestroken iff (which means: and only if) the line separating it is discontinued. This makes sure you can take a right turn safely by blocking the cycling traffic with a car. So if a crossing has a continous line: wait for all cyclists to have passed. Iff dotted: move on the lane (and await complaints) but you are sure you will not hit anyone. the last part is most often employed at infrequent crossings.
"advisory lanes are the preferred tool, when the city doesn't really want to deal with the problem"… you might get quoted on that :)
Interestingly the German equivalent to the ETW30 (the "30 Zone") explicitly bans advisory lanes as well ("any lane markings are prohibited") - not sure why. Maybe "lost in translation" back in the 80s. The double meaning of "strook" (which got translated as "Streifen") for the lane and the line works in Dutch as well?
The trick around here is to only build a 30 section (like a school zone) and then you can add any regulation you want.
@@kailahmann1823 In this context, 'strook' in Dutch means lane. The word for line, or stripe, is 'streep'.
I think a better solution (but still bad) would to be to call this a "fiets straat" and paint it like a bike path. At least you do not create the suggestion the road is mainly meant for cars. However still not a fan of this. Definitely better ways to deal with this.
@@ronrolfsen3977 that's how they build bike streets in the Ruhr area and wonder why it attracts no cyclists ;)
Hey did you see my video on fietstraats? Blocking off the through car traffic would actually sort of turn it into one
I remember when my teacher in elementary school told us in traffic class: 'Het is geen fietsPAD, het is een fietsSTROOK'. I always understood the difference very well, and I think most Dutchies do. As a car you can use the strook whenever there's no bike. But when there is a bike, you need to stay off the strook. As a cyclist it feels safe, as you feel somewhat protected. You have a designated area that is yours when you're there. When you're not there others (cars) can use it, and to me that's totally fine. It's efficient use of space that provides some extra protection for bikes without having to completely remodel the street or ban all cars. Because even in the Netherlands there are limits to that.
Another pro of the fietsstrook is that it optically narrows the road, so it slows down cars.
Maybe it's perfect example of a 'polder'-solution. It doesn't completely favour one side over the other. Everyone gives and takes a little 'en je doet het er maar mee'. I don't think it's unwillingness to deal with the situation. I think it's a very adequate solution for the situation. It's perfect for nobody but all parties get something out of it.
I love it.
I came to this conclusion about network issues in my neighborhood(the gridded streets of San Francisco's Sunset District). On Kirkham between 19th and 7th Ave, the MTA tested "Slow Streets" during pandemic lockdowns, which only blocked one lane to "suggest" traffic calming, and found that thru drivers, rather than respecting the suggestion, aggressively slalomed through Kirkham to traverse between 19th and 7th(both major corridors), knocking over the signs. They went in the direction of reverting the change instead of pushing for a full barrier. The streets did succeed in a few other places in the city, but the motorist reluctance to give up this particular cut-over was high, and I can see the same kind of issue taking place with the Heemraadssingel.
But the overall network problem, which is "every street in the Sunset is equally a thru street", is easy to fix through careful application of barriers. Gridded cities are very amenable to this change - it doesn't create an issue over how to allocate the road space and carve out lanes for different users - they just need to overcome some political concerns and practical issues with emergency services access etc.
You’re right, the problem with narrow streets that people start to trust over the weeks/months/years is that most in the US are built in a straight path which still causes speeding and the solution is to add raised intersections, raised crossings for alleys and add unexpected obstacles and also make the lanes as narrow as possible but sadly minimum lane width in the manuals limits this.
The overall network problem is that people feel the need to drive through busy city traffic instead of parking somewhere accessible on the outskirts and taking public transport to wherever they need to be in the city.
Whatever you do isnt going to fix traffic as long as it involves cars going into the city center and parking there.
you don't even have to move the bus stations.
you could just place a "bussluis" in (somewhere around) the midlle of the street, that way cars can't use it as a shortcut and busses (and emergency vehicles) can still use the whole street.
you're able to either put in a raised platform (like a speedbump) that is to wide for cars the pas over but small enough for busses (but then police and ambulances couldn't pas either)
or you use those move able triangles that disappear into the ground when allowed vehicles (busses and emergency vehicles) approach.
the 2nd option would be (in my opinion) the best solution here, and it doesn't even cost that much to install.
you can, and that would still be a big improvement. But bus stops arent supposed to be on an ETW either, so I went for the most " ideal" solution. Stroomfunctie is still a stroom fuctie even if its a bus
We have that in Amstelveen. Larger cars, like SUV's, simply drive over the raised platforms. Smaller cars think they can and then get stuck. Likewise, many cars get stuck in the 'bussluis' especially at night.
Yes! Let’s make the city more pretty!! Wonderful video
Now we need rotterdam to join
1:33 small overview about our speedlimites
BiBeKo (binnen de bebouwde kom - inside city limits)
-ETW - 30KMH
-GOW - 50KMH
-SW - 70KMH
there is going to be an new type of road introduced, the GOW 30, which (surprizingly) has a speed limit of 30 KMH. This street is supposed to become the default speed limit in all cities. This means the GOW - 50 is going to dissapear in most places and changed to GOW - 30. Its an interesting topic to talk about considering it has up- and downsides.
BuBeKo (buiten de bebouwde kom - outside the city limits)
-ETW - 60KMH
-GOW - 80KMH
-SW - 100/130KMH
4:07 not really (any color isnt ok), as it contradicts Duurzaam Veilig. It has a design principle that every road and function should be clearly recognizable and compatable (yes, the GOW - 30 will be a negative infliction on both of these parts sadly) to show drivers what behavior wegbeheerders expect from them and it prevents confusion. This improves safety a lot.
The screenshot at 3:59 confirms that the colour of the surface must be the same throughout ("geen afwijkende kleur").
This is starting to be done lots in the UK, retrofitting older neighbourhoods with traffic filters to create low traffic neighbourhoods. However there is a lot of motorists complaining about them, causing traffic and the government recently removed them from projects that they will fund for active travel.
Same thing is going on all over canada, i think the political setbacks will be less in the near future since a lot more younger generations want and see the advantages of sustainable transportation and being able to get around real easy.
I honestly think the only reason low traffic neighborhoods are controversial is because they're given such a fancy name. The actual name for them are modal filters, and they can be found in quite a few places around the UK. You might also find different examples such as bus gates.
If they weren't made such a big deal there might be some complaints from residents but at the end of the day they likely would simply be part of normal life, nothing special.
It's really upsetting (but also relatively unsurprising given our incumbent) that the UK Government is being so pro motorist. I remember in early march the government did an investigation into the effectiveness of LTNs and they had to manipulate the conclusion to fit with their hypothesis which was revealed during a leak.
It really is a big shame.
This is so well thought out, thank you for the explanation. I moved to the Netherlands as well, and I've definitely experienced that Rotterdam and streets in general with the tiny on street "bike lanes" on each side are always so unpleasant.
Heemraadsingel should still allow for through bus traffic, the deviations on the number 44 route are already crazy weird, this extra spike to the west would make it absolutely crazy
Agreed, but I think we could agree a lot of that comes from all the space given to the least efficient way of getting around. You could make compromises here but I also wanted to present the “ideal” solution to illustrate what function is meant for.
Falling in love with your channel
Nice way to inform and educate! Great video
Your vids keep getting better, Lekker bezig!
At 4:50 there seems to be a bike symbol on the lanes?
I used to work on the Heemraadsingel and loved it. It's practical and beautiful at the same time.
which spot!?
@@buildthelanes It was number 137. I don't know if it's still rented out as an office space.
4:11 you say there's no bicycle symbol on these lanes, but I can clearly see the bicycle markings at 4:33 and 4:49
yea, its an extra step that makes the design even more wrong, but i wanted to explain why you so often see the red lanes on the outside before adding another step to explain for people.
CROW IS jsut a design guide but since theres not any design you technically have to follow, it holds a lot more weight than a regular "design standard"
Great video! Your videos are getting better with each one. It would have been cool to see how the other street dealt with through traffic. Did they just build a bollard? Or did they use other mechanisms like chicanes?
Would love to see a video on street transformations - i know Amsterdam is changing their streets with parking, to be ones with seating areas, tiny playgrounds, bike parking, garden/green space etc. Do such additions make it easier or harder to bike through? I’d imagine harder to bike through, because of all the people on the street, but I could be wrong. Also would be cool to see a video on how NL handles mixing transit (buses, trams) with bikes/bike lanes. Looking forward to the next video!
The other street (Hooidrift I think) a rougher brick road surface, some chicanes and raised intersections/speedbumps. One way streets are also a method often used to prevent through traffic in these tiny neighbourhoods/superblocks. IMO one of the main reasons these streets see very little throug traffic is that they are not the fastest route to the other side. Closing of Heemraadsingel would probably divert some traffic through the smaller streets rather than around the neighbourhood. All the traffic calming has hardly any effect on cycling. It is not great for road bikes, but hardly anyone uses those anyway. These streets are near exclusively residential. There are not enough people on the streets to be an issue for cycling.
Because they removed a lot of car parking and still in the process of doing so means that streets get way less busy since people can enter and exit the street way easier and faster. So biking though those streets is even more pleasing and faster then before but this can still differ depending on the environment and other things.
Thank you. Where can i find out which streets are ETW30? Is there an official plan? Thank you!
anytime you are in a built up area and you see a paved surface with paving stone or asphalt without center striping you are very likely looking at an ETW30
4:50 aren't those bike lane markings inside the suggestiestrook? Whoops.
Or... put a "bussluis" in the middle. That way local traffic can still get there from either the Vierambachtstraat or the Mathenesserlaan, but they can't get from one side to the other, but busses and bicycles still can.
you can, and that would still be a big improvement. But bus stops arent supposed to be on an ETW either, so I went for the most " ideal" solution. Stroomfunctie is still a stroom fuctie even if its a bus
Well Public transport is not important in Netherlands.
@@anubizz3 once a city is good for cycling, public transit becomes primarily a service for disabled people. While it's still important, you must be careful not to prioritize it over cycling.
@@anubizz3 it sure is important to our country. We have priority signs and dedicated lanes. Compare that to bus infrastructure in most countries.
Hey, i'm from Rotterdam and know the area very well, and to be honest I avoid cycling here unless i have to be at a specific location in that area because it's always chaotic. (there's a reason we call it the wild west) However the plan you suggest in the video about blocking at one end would not work in this case for a couple of reasons:
The first is the bus line, which actually comes from the other part of the Heemraadssingel, and follows the road all the way through to Mathenesserlaan, the bus does the same on the other side of the Heemraadssingel and connects back to Rotterdam Noord. Diverting these two stops, or four if you count both sides of the singel, would cause a diversion of at least 5 minutes ride time on the bus if there is no traffic and 20/30 minutes if there is traffic.
That brings me to the second point of why blocking the road would not be a great idea: Traffic, Mathenesserlaan and Vierambachtsstraat are both very busy 2 lane streets with street level tramlines, almost every tram going west of the city center travels through Vierambachtsstraat. During rushhour these streets become completely blocked, because they both end up at Mathenesserplein where traffic is further diverted to more directions. Which is why Heemraadssingel is the way it is; it's a diversion street for cars that need to go in a specific direction that don't necessarily require staying on M'Laan or Vierambachtsstraat. It is a direct north/south connection from Rotterdam Noord all the way down to Coolhaven and relieves the west/east bound traffic.
what you suggest is great, and used in many other situations with great result, but it simply would cause more harm than good in this case.
I learn a lot from the videos made by "foreigners"! I had never heard of a "suggestion strook" although I use these streets quite often, by car or bike. I lived at the Heemraadsplein for 11 years. My best friends live at the Hooidrift where you also filmed.
I reckon foreigners might feel intimidated by the cars that are passing by high speed (as a matter of fact, I sometimes hear comments on that in other video's, but i reckon Dutch bikers are used to it? It doesn"t bother me, personally. Thanks for sharing !
I think you need to zoom out a bit more to understand the context of the Heemraadssingel. The traffic between Vierambachtstraat / 2e Middellandstraat and Mathenesserlaan is just a small part of the traffic. A lot of it (in this particular street) is traffic which already came from Van Aerssenlaan as an easy way to go south to Rochussenstraat. The solution isn't to push even more traffic through the congested single-lane Vierambachtsstraat, but to make that traffic take the Aelbrechtskade instead.
BTW, at the moment Heemraadssingel would fit GOW30 more than ETW30. It's one of many roads blindly converted from 50 to 30 without adjusting the layout of the road.
uhm i might be wrong but those are bikelanes; at 5:52 you see the faded out bicycle markings on the red pavement.
You’re correct but they aren’t supposed to be inside ETW30’s
The "Westzijde" in Zaandam is also an interesting case with the same issue. You may find it interesting too. Lots of through traffic and cyclists on a narrow street. Over the whole length of the street (which is quite long) it seems like they've tried all options. 50km/h with bike lanes (too narrow), 30km/h without bike lanes (too busy), 50km/h with suggestiestroken (idk why), separated bike lane in one direction only (???), 50km/h but put up a blue sign with a suggested speed limit of 30km/h so you're allowed to put bicycle symbols on the suggestiestroken (smart, but cheating)...
i wish i could move to the netherlands, but i dont have anything to justify a residence permit :c
There might be some other ways of getting a permanent residence permit but it’s gonna take quite some time, money and energy.
Same.
These bits of red asphalt are called "FIETSsuggestiestroken", which you are meant to cycle on as long as you can cycle "as far to the right as possible". You don't have to commit to the lanes when you're the left one in a side by side cyclist duo.
I agree with the fact it doesn't belong in an ETW30, which should only be used in build-up areas and not on through streets, which should be GOW.
I wouldn't necessarily say that you need to move the bus route. You can impliment barriers that prevent cars from crossing, but not buses. It's called a "bussluis", or a more expensive way to do it: a "poller".
can you please tell me where in the kenniskbank CROW these are referred to as fietssuggestiestroken?
@@buildthelanes hes wrong. U named them correct. They are suggestiestroken. Its a fietsstrook (with legal status recognizable with a painted bike on the asphalt/pavement) or a suggestiestrook (without legal status), they have the same purpose though
@@buildthelanesI stand corrected. I think I'm wrong about the actual name. You are correct that it is "suggestiestroken". I work in this field for a couple of years now, but I still don't know every legal term for everything.
@@bvanommen94 no worries im the same as you!
@@corneetjeuh they don’t have the same laws though. Suggestie stroken allow for cars to temporarily park in them while fietsstroken never allow for cars to be parked in them.
I agree that your suggestions would make this street better, however, if you do this to enough streets, then what do you do about the issue that all the traffic gets funnelled into a fewer and fewer main roads and congestion builds up there? It feels like all you're doing is moving traffic from one place to another, but is there evidence to suggest that doing this has the opposite effect of induced demand, and that overall traffic actually reduces? If not, how is the additional traffic dealt with on the main roads? And don't residents on those roads complain about the extra noise, pollution and congestion?
Looking at the map at 5:24 unless they've done the same to all the side roads between the two main roads, all you'll do is push the problem along to the next road. Where I live people who live in LTNs have complained about it taking longer to get to/from their homes and it has increased congestion on the main roads that the traffic has been forced onto
Neat true crime episode with the viewer as the detective ;) spoilers down below.
I was surprised when the suspect was simply to block off vehicle traffic. My initial guess was that a whole street reprioritising or reclassification was needed. I couldn’t really understand your thinking until you mentioned that ETW30 is designed for local traffic. Not through traffic.
I have a question though. Would a modal filter that allows buses but blocks cars (bus trap) be an acceptable solution to this problem too?
Awesome video! Once again you taught something new in a fun way!
you definitely could, but ETWs arent supposed to have bus stops either. because its hard for kids to play in the streeet when a bus comes every 10 minutes
@@buildthelanes Interesting! That answers my question entirely
It’s such a slippery slope mentally wanting to service as many different kinds of travel… only to make it worse for everyone involved! Total focus is required when getting down into details like individual streets. :)
Alternatively, one could elect to upgrade the Heemraadsingel to a GOW, ie. with separted lanes further away from the "rooilijn" with a bi-directional bicycle lane as a separator between the side walk and motor vehicle traffic. In order to make the street nonetheless psychological longer to traverse, it is possibel to design it deliberately impeded i.e. by means of narrowed parking bays and speed ramps that do affect the speed with which cars can travel but not bus transport.
A GOW providing access to buildings? You do know you can't do that, right?
Honestly a lot of these things would also be solved if navigation apps simply didn't route you through streets like this.
Also, I don't think they've done this anywhere in the country yet but they could use a "closed statement" with an exception only for local traffic on either side.
But I suppose that might add confusion. Which is probably also the reason it hasn't been done before
They have a closed statement in Zwolle. The Kerkstraat. Only enforced by camera that scan license plates. However there are residences there. The road is still free to use for busses, taxi, etc. It also make the route invalid in navigation apps. There are others, however they are all closed off with an retractable bollards. There are residences in those places and they can get access to to that. I think the latter might be a suitable option here as well. This would allow busses to still use the road as well. However maybe the throughput is to high for that.
With your proposed changes, how would the one way configuration of the road work? Currently it goes one way, south, right?
it would be a slow 2 way, you drive there to park and drop off, thats it
Suggestiestroken: pseudo bike lanes
Or, as Jason from Not Just Bikes calls them. Painted Bike Gutters
They’re better then a white line gutter, they also grab more attention from the driver since they are usually well visible and quite wide.
How I would change the Heemraadssingel in Rotterdam.
Looking North to South, remove the parking spots on the right side, create a bike path separated with a green patch.
Change the parking spots on the left to 60 degree parking.
That would make it only suitable for one way traffic, but it already is like that.
The above would clean it up a lot.
"Thats some fast moving cars"
*Looks outside at my residential street that is 2 metres from the front of my house as a Lifted Dodge Ram revs by at 65km/h*
"Fuck my entire life"
wonderful video!
Excellent explanation!
By the way, the easiest solution to stopping traffic through a street in the Netherlands isn't to block off traffic with obstacles, it's to simply put up a sign that says "residential traffic only" on both ends. This would still allow people who live there to access the street from both ends, and 99% of drivers will respect such a sign without the need to put up any obstacles. Maybe in Rotterdam specifically it would be a bit less than 99%, they aren't the most respectful people in the country.
I've seen "No Thru Traffic" signs used in the US with only limited success. Americans regard such signs as infringements on their freedom, and police enforcement is difficult. The Dutch are more respectful of others.
you think people will listen to that??
Sluipverkeer kan ook door verbodsborden met bijvoorbeeld spitstijden worden aangepakt.
Dat is niet wat je wilt in de straat waar je woont. Het moet gewoon alleen zijn voor de bewoners en niet voor iedereen die ergens moet zijn.
Bestemmingsverkeer natuurlijk uitgezonderd.
@@jayandreas1131 is niet te handhaven en dus ook niet in de praktijk te brengen
@@corneetjeuh er zijn cameras die kenteken herkenning gebruiken on uitzonderlijk verkeer toe te staan.
@@miles5600 dat soort technologie wordt doorgaans niet voor dit soort straatjes ingezet aangezien dat veel te duur is.
Walking, running, bicycles, escooters, green open spaces, electric buses and trams are all parts of a good transportation system
Electric busses not so much, trolley busses and electric busses are better then electric busses since the batteries aren’t needed but it’s better the a diesel bus.
I’m really looking forward to all of the other things to be true in more parts of the world.
I means hybrid busses and trolley busses.
Meant* damn my keyboard’s drunk today.
It also has zebra crossings and public transit which according to your list of dont's shouldn't be on the destination street either
Calling a city like Rotterdam "modern" and places like Utrecht more "traditional" seems to me an intentional missrepresentation for the sake of the framing of the video. the entire Flevopolder is more "modern" compared to Rotterdam and doesn't suffer the same issues. calling the 80's modern because they were more modern compared to the 60's misses the point we live in the 2000's now.
you have what they call a "RhinoView" , please try to stay objective
Cities need to do more to encourage people to ride bicycles. Safe protected bike lanes and trails are needed so adults and children can ride safely. Speak up for bicycles in your community. Bicycles make life and cities better. Ask your local transportation planner and elected officials to support more protected bike lanes and trails. Children should be riding a bicycle to school and not be driven in a minivan.
Not only make cycling more enjoyable and cooler by planing trees but also discourage driving by making driving a nightmare and just give them less space and respect overall.
Wow. That was informative.
Nice video!
I love the city Rotterdam better than Amsterdam. But I hate driving in Rotterdam 😬😁
"suggestiestroken" is "suggestion lanes".
And "gemeente" is "municipality"
You wouldn't even need to move those busstops. You could place a so called "bussluis" or bus trap i think. Would be a great solution to make the city an even better place.
Just adding a retractable bollard at the end would do the trick. You might even grand those living there access to that entry as well then.
Lovely example of how context is everything. You can have the perfect road in isolation and it still gets ruined by cars because people can't be arsed to drive around it. This is why American cycle experiments frustrate me. No amount of speed bumps can save this road which is designated a street. It needs to be bollards.
Also you have such an interesting accent. You say the vowels flawlessly like a native, but you pronounce the words like you've mainly seen them written so they're not always the right version of the vowel.
His pronunciation of the word: suggestiestrook, is a little off cause the G isn’t that dutch G if you know what i mean.
Still he’s very good at dutch as it continues to improve 😁
@@miles5600 true, but it looks like an English loanword, in which case he'd be right.
Im also thinking of 'gemeente'.
In both cases they're pronunciations that could have been
Why add BG music to a commentary video? If you NEED music to get people to watch...
I would prefer making a bus trap instead of two poles; it would result in a faster bus!
Edit: typo
You definitely could, it just wouldn’t be ideal if you want to maximize local movement
@@buildthelanes Fair enough, it's a trade off
You can make paid car traffic on such streets, just put up a payment terminal "You can drive as you like". There would be some money for the community for iteration events
Only one really big issue with blocking of road: Trucks and vans. Yes, they need to be their. Because where people life, goods have to go. Blocking streets of causes a lot of problems for deliveries and garbage-collection. Trucks need to backup into a street, making the entrance very dangerous for all traffic and vans have to turn in the streets (or also backup into it), making it dangerous for bikes and pedestrians. So no. Bad solution. Better solution is to make the street a one way direction road in the opposite direction most traffic flows.
The worst part is that the people being uncomfortable mixing are not people on bikes, but the through car drivers. So you add these "sugggestive" lines to get the bikes out of the way.
And if you want to keep the bus traffic there are ways to prevent through traffic by cars that will allow buses. Just make sure there is a car repair shop nearby, because people are idiots.
Hold on. So in your world, it’s the person driving at 45 km/hr in a protective metal shell who feels uncomfortable but not the 8 year old cycling on a tricycle who only has 1 meter of paint for protection.
I want you to think for a moment about how stupid that sounds
@@buildthelanes i think they might mean it differently. As a driver I hate driving on a fietsstraat, it's very uncomfortable for me. As a cyclist I love a good fietsstraat.
But there is a (temporary) fietsstraat in my area where they have streetlevel sidewalks and suggestiestroken. Cycling here is the worst since car drivers expect you to be in the suggestiestroken.
Basically drivers (read: me as driver) prefer cyclists to have their own space. But cyclists (read: me as cyclist) prefer to have a clear mixed use or completely seperate bikelane.
Yes but as the video says, this environment was never meant to be driven through to begin with. The other route is much more “comfortable” for you and only takes 90 seconds longer
@@buildthelanes I know exactly how stupid that is. But those are the priorities of urban planning.
Rotterdam is lacking behind with allot of infrastructure projects. They even want to remove some tramlines...
True, same goes for Amsterdam, they’ve got a lot of unprotected bike lanes and suggestie stroken compared to a lot of other cities.
***GASP*** blocking through car traffic??? Who would do such an evil thing???
I don't understand why you use Dutch words for these things. And then abbreviate them. You can translate them to English, you know, they are not proper names.
- Erftoegangsweg - Residential access road
- Gemeente - Municipality
- Fietssuggestiestrook - Bicycle advisory lane
Obviously I was waiting for you to do it
@@buildthelanes Great. With that out of the way, now you can do it yourself! :)
This is just me, but hearing/reading the original terms repeatedly gives me a greater appreciation for these innovations and their Dutch origins, and now I know what keywords to look for when I'm looking up this info online and it's not fully translated 😂
Well they’re dutch words so i’m not surprised tbh
Wouldn't have to remove the bus stops, just add a bus sluice.
Why not make a “bus only” filter on one end? Are drivers really too entitled to follow a simple sign?
Or the German sign "Anlieger Frei" which means only residence or people trying to reach adresses in the Zone,, this of course requieres german discipline.
so your solution is effectively to turn a through road into a cul-de-sac
So in Germany 30 Zones usally come with a "Anlieger Frei" sign which only allows local traffic so i was really confused when a 30 Zone was used as a mayor road ???
Heemraadsingel is pronounced like "Haym raad single" not "Hem raad single" otherwise great movie
.... and get rid of the parked cars.
This street is fine, and the through traffic is good for clearing some congestion. Stop trying to ban cars, just let everyone travel around how they want. We can have walking, biking, transit and cars together, without getting rid of cars all together
Actuallly, that specific one only causes congestion. It doesn´t clear any of it.
No
The reason Rotterdam is so different, with modern architecture and car-centric design is that the Germans bombed it into complete ruins in the war, so it was redesigned from the ground up during the post-war car boom to be car-friendly, and we are still struggling with that legacy. Thankfully the city has a great underground metro system and train lines so you dont need a car to get anywhere, but it is less friendly to cyclists and pedestrians when youre on the streets.
These reddish “death lanes” positioning cyclists exactly in the position of opening car doors really are complete bs and without those the street could be modeled in a far more safe way.
You talk about “moving bus stops” - If you plan to remove the bus line and prolong the travel time for OV passengers and maybe some extra costs for running more buses du to the longer ride of the line pls be so honest and SAY THIS.
I guess it does not even need to be, as there are technical solutions for allowing buses to pass but block cars off as well.
Often a “simple” solution does not reflect the complexity of a problem. It needs to be adressed from more than one point of view. You need a concept for an attractive routing for the #44 bus to solve it. “Forgetting” to keep or even make bus services more attractive when creating street concepts is a real issue. Please do not copy this mistake.
Or they could make it a thoroughfare, since people also have to do business and go places, not only the local residents have rights. There are plenty of crippled streets in the area as well, bike on those and refrain from ruining another road as well.
This isn’t a road. This is a travel surface made to prioritize the local residents. The quality of life for the people who live there is more valuable than one extra minute of your time. That’s why they built GOWs, so the through movement is on those
@@buildthelanes Nah, what I see is a road. You want no traffic, move in the mountains, there you won’t be disturbed by anyone except maybe some animals. Cities are made for people to access economic opportunities more easily and get business done, not to cater only to the interests of a tiny, yet overly vocal minority while crippling the situation for each and every one else, especially those paying the most tax who usually get almost nothing out of it.
Sounds good, hey I bought a boat and I really want to park it in front of your house. Oh also we set up a new logistical route that will have 3 semi trucks rolling through every hour through the neighborhood. If that sounds insane to you, sorry we’re just doing business, go move to the mountains
And remember, fewer than 50% of Rotterdamers own their own car.
To hell with your stupid car.
Sorry but your pronounciation of Dutch is really off haha
:(
Try learning Russian in a very short time period, his progress of speaking the dutch language is progressing rapidly 😊
Interesting thing about a "fietssuggestiestrook": you can stop your car on it legally. If it actually has a bike symbol on it you cannot. Another thing people often forget is you can, and should, block cycling traffic near crossings with either cycling lanes or fietssuggestiestroken iff (which means: and only if) the line separating it is discontinued. This makes sure you can take a right turn safely by blocking the cycling traffic with a car. So if a crossing has a continous line: wait for all cyclists to have passed. Iff dotted: move on the lane (and await complaints) but you are sure you will not hit anyone. the last part is most often employed at infrequent crossings.