Are Those "Handbags" at Göbekli Tepe?
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 6 сен 2024
- Many comments on my previous video on Göbekli Tepe centered on three enigmatic symbols at the top of Pillar 43, the "Vulture Pillar." Given the interest, I produced this video to discuss the potential significance of these images, and to present an interpretation of them that I originally offered in an article in 2011.
Here's a link to that article: www.journals.u...
Here's a link to my previous Göbekli video: • The Builders of Göbek...
And a link to a more recent article I published about new findings at Göbekli Tepe:
www.degruyter....
and here are some links to other relevant videos:
• Mystery of the Gobekli...
• The 'Handbags' of Göbe...
• An Eye-opening Interpr...
#archaeology #göbeklitepe
Chapters
00:04 Introduction & Review of Comments
02:16 Assyrian Buckets
02:59 Other Buckets around the World
03:38 Cosmological Significance
04:53 Mundane Baskets
05:15 Argument by Analogy
11:30 Weights for Beam Balances
11:55 An Alternative Explanation
13:01 A Conjectural Reconstruction
14:25 Conclusion
15:32 Credits
Whatever they represent they should be looked at by also including the other images into the interpretation of what they may mean. They must be connected in some way, otherwise why would they be on the same pillar.
You bring up a good point. A thorough interpretation would take all of the imagery into account. However, it might be very difficult to do that, as the birds and other images have so many potential meanings. That doesn't mean we shouldn't try, and taking into account the other pillars, for context, would also be a good idea.
Your suggestion of the bags representing bldgs was interesting. When I noticed the 3 handbags, each with a figure representation it made me think (left to right) a human(?) figure housed, an animal figure housed and food (grains, etc ?) stored. So, a shelter, a barn and a grainery.......? So far, it's mostly speculation and theorizing. There's a lot yet to be discovered adding to the picture. The discovery of Gobekli Tepe sure added to what we didn't know! 😊
Check out the more recent dig in Turkey. Karahan Tepe. Built some time between 9,000-11,000 BC and is easily a thousand years older than Göbekli Tepe. But using the same T-stones as its younger cousin. Look for the worship of the phallus, suggesting this was a matriarchal society. All the best.
I totally agree with you - I had the same thought when I first saw them and felt that the animal symbols represented families. The larger GT buildings seem to have compartments labelled with different animal figures, so that ownership of whatever was stored in each was clear. Maybe they were a combination of charnal house and seed/root repository. Things that needed to be kept cool, dry, and protected. Hay could also be kept in the roof spaces for winter feed. I think that bull aurochs and the rodents were probably the biggest nuisances back then. Similar stone granaries/haylofts that seem to double as religious spaces spread west across Anatolia and the Mediterranean, and up the Atlantic coast of Iberia, with the most recent forms in Galicia and Northern Spain being the horréos. BTW- the birds identified as vultures are baby pigeons - no doubt an important source of food, as there were no chickens in Europe at that time. Baby pigeons sit with their legs out front, and note the bald wings, and egg-toothy beaks.
I think placing the small animals near the top of the bags was their way of showing what they put in the bags, indicating they were hunting carrying bags.
Those bags contained a stylus for writing characters onto clay, a stylus, a cylinder clay roll as a Notary Seal, an Insignia Ring with a persons signature or sign, some moist clay, wax, strips of ribbon made from silk, fabric or woven wool and a letter seal stamp in clay to seal any message on papyrus or on clay. And they may have also carried deeds of sale, titles, grants and legal notices. Satraps and Kings, politicians or elites all carried them for passing of secure conscription.
At Gobekli they are representing three nations descending from Japheth, Ham and Shem.
I am 100% in agreement with your comment, and myself do not agree with the dating of GT. Perhaps Nimrod and Abraham were very familiar with these shrines.My comment was referenced at 1:10 about the handbags.
// @about2mount: At Gobekli they are representing three nations descending from Japheth, Ham and Shem. //
Noah dates back to 4000BCE. Göbekli Tepe dates back to 9000BCE. Gobekli had probably disintegrated as a communal system by 4000BCE
Felix the cat had a bag too and his cousin traveled around in a space ship( Poindexter)
Occams razor. More people should try it. But, we have people out there preaching to the mob that we don't know how the hell "they" built the pyramids. But, the Egyptians bragged about they built things and left depictions of it. We do know, but somehow grifters like Uncharted X and Hancock neglect to mention this.
I agree. Many people - not including those who are just selling fictions to make a lot of money - seem to think, "I have no idea how to do this, therefore it must have been impossible for ancient people to do this without the help of some advanced super-civilization". Ancient people were smart.
I've been pondering these bags for over fifty years. I'm no professional archeologist, but in my humble opinion, the universal explanation for all of them now seems much simpler to me. The bag clearly proffered from outstretched hands is literally a seed bag. But symbolically it is an offer of agriculture, civilization, advancement and trade.
Knowledge Baskets Legend
The 3 baskets (keke)
When Tāne decided to climb up to the heavens to seek the baskets of knowledge for mankind, his brother Whiro was angry. Whiro thought he had more right to the baskets than Tāne, because he was the elder brother.
The two brothers struggled for power, but it was Tāne who was favoured by Io, the supreme power, so Tāne was allowed to ascend the twelve heavens.
His task was made more difficult by Whiro who sent plagues of insects, reptiles and carrion-eating birds to attack Tāne.
But Tāne, with the aid of the winds, was able to proceed until he reached the summit of all the heavens.
Here, at Toi-ō-ngā-rangi, he was welcomed by Io and received the three baskets of knowledge and the two sacred stones.
The baskets, or kete were -
The kete-aronui which held all the knowledge that could help mankind
The kete-tuauri which held the knowledge of ritual, memory and prayer
and the kete-tuatea which contained knowledge of evil or makutu, which was harmful to mankind.
The stones, or whatukura held the power of knowledge and added mana to the teaching of knowledge.
On his return journey, Tāne was again attacked by Whiro and his allies, the birds and insects. Tāne would have been defeated if the winds had not once more, come to his rescue. The winds blew the birds and insects back down to earth where they remain today.
When Tāne finally reached earth again he placed the baskets and stones in a special house of knowledge - whare kura, which he had built before his journey to the heavens.
Whiro was back on earth too, and he demanded that he should be the one to take care of the treasures.
But Tāne and his supporters refused Whiro’s demands and Whiro was eventually banished to the underworld where he still lives, and continually tries to cause trouble for gods and mankind.
Tane-te-wānanga-ā-rangi (Tāne, bringer of knowledge from the sky) was left to maintain order on earth.
I agree!
It's a Celtic Survey plomb, they found one under volcanic Tephra in Gisborne New Zealand over 5000 years old
It eventually became representative of Astrological knowledge bought by the Celts aka Phoenicians
@@nvlight2948 He Uenuku, the Rainbow Spirit is Jesus, E Io, and Kore are Greek names for Joseph of Arimathea and Persephone
Ra, Ika, Uruku, Kuau, Para, Papatunuka, Tane (Atlas) Maui (Osiris) all from the Levant
Even As Above so below, as within so without
This is proof Maori had contact with Phoenicians aka the Celts, ie the Patupairehe
They spent all that hard work cutting stone to show us an average seed bag. 😂😂😂😂
I enjoyed your video, but I have a question on your theory; Why would the relief carvings include a "void" in the roof? Should it not be solid when viewed in profile? They could have also incised a motif in this area to indicate a thatched roof.
I had the same thought. To be clear, I'm not here to defend "handbags". As symbols, they are sufficiently vague enough to be interpreted in a number of ways all of which could be entirely wrong.
Even a symbol with known meaning can a have more than one meaning ascribed to it so context can often be of great importance when it comes to interpretation of any particular symbol.
That's a very good question, and of course it's possible that my interpretation is just as incorrect as the others that have been offered. However, it's also possibly that the artist is doing a sort of combined inside/outside view, what some analysts of rock art call "X-ray" views, or is attempting a sort of perspective that's different from our Renaissance-type perspective views (i.e., trying to show a side view and a top view or inside view at the same time). However, that interpretation would be stronger if the artist also tried to show the two largest pillars inside. I think we'll really need more examples before we can be very confident of how to interpret these things, but personally I'm not convinced by the basket/handbag interpretations, let alone some of the more speculative ones.
V kultuře a civilizacích, mluvíme vždy o určité organizovanosti skupin, které se potřebují pro vzájemnou komunikaci rozlišovat a mít vymezený prostor.
Neolitická kultura se vymezovala kruhovým prostorem a identifikovala reliéfy zvířat a kabelkami.
Historicky reliéfy zvířat přešly až do záznamu jména a příjmení v matrice, záznamu prostoru v katastru a obojího na dveřích obydlí.
Abychom snadněji pochopili vývoj neolitické symboliky, musíme přejít k pozdějším, početně větším kulturám např. mezopotamské a sumerské. Reliéfy zvířat přešly až do lidských postav se zvířecí hlavou. Přibyli bohové (zakladatelé) rodu s náramkem, v jedné ruce mají šišku vždy nahoře a ve druhé kabelku vždy dole. Šiška pokorně mění i polohu ze svislé na vodorovnou.
Obecně šiška symbolizuje vědomí a pokoru k nadřazenosti přírody nad člověkem.
Z matematicko-geometrického hlediska jsou šupiny šišky uspořádány do logaritmické spirály.
Piniovou šišku vysokou 4 m opatruje Vatikán dodnes, aniž by se vnímal její symbolický význam jako pozůstatek neolitu.
Kabelky dokumentují stav rodu a mají vlastnosti zlatého řezu; plocha zlatého čtverce bývá rozšířena dalším zvířetem až do zlatého obdélníka. Rukověť má tvar polokružnice, která spojuje vlastnosti čísla pí se zlatým řezem. Kabelky poskládané za sebou určují po sobě jdoucí generační cykly. Reliéf bývá doplněn stromem života, který dostal v Egyptě vlastní symbol.
Dnes vzniká otázka nakolik je symbolika záznamu vědomá a nakolik intuitivní.
Vnucuje se i myšlenka na civilizační posun, kdy rozlišení rodového stavu zvířetem, až do stavu, kdy se zakladatel rodu stal bohem a nakonec člověkem, který vstal z mrtvých a vstoupil na nebesa, kde je dodnes.
Knowledge Baskets Legend
The 3 baskets (teke)
When Tāne decided to climb up to the heavens to seek the baskets of knowledge for mankind, his brother Whiro was angry. Whiro thought he had more right to the baskets than Tāne, because he was the elder brother.
The two brothers struggled for power, but it was Tāne who was favoured by Io, the supreme power, so Tāne was allowed to ascend the twelve heavens.
His task was made more difficult by Whiro who sent plagues of insects, reptiles and carrion-eating birds to attack Tāne.
But Tāne, with the aid of the winds, was able to proceed until he reached the summit of all the heavens.
Here, at Toi-ō-ngā-rangi, he was welcomed by Io and received the three baskets of knowledge and the two sacred stones.
The baskets, or kete were -
The kete-aronui which held all the knowledge that could help mankind
The kete-tuauri which held the knowledge of ritual, memory and prayer
and the kete-tuatea which contained knowledge of evil or makutu, which was harmful to mankind.
The stones, or whatukura held the power of knowledge and added mana to the teaching of knowledge.
On his return journey, Tāne was again attacked by Whiro and his allies, the birds and insects. Tāne would have been defeated if the winds had not once more, come to his rescue. The winds blew the birds and insects back down to earth where they remain today.
When Tāne finally reached earth again he placed the baskets and stones in a special house of knowledge - whare kura, which he had built before his journey to the heavens.
Whiro was back on earth too, and he demanded that he should be the one to take care of the treasures.
But Tāne and his supporters refused Whiro’s demands and Whiro was eventually banished to the underworld where he still lives, and continually tries to cause trouble for gods and mankind.
Tane-te-wānanga-ā-rangi (Tāne, bringer of knowledge from the sky) was left to maintain order on earth.
Medicine bags, or lunch boxes; (with contents inscribed here)! Bird, Swine, Critter, etc.
True. Great interpretation. Obviously, it was More than just a bucket. Symbols associated with it have meaning. That's a great Abstract interpretation you made. Brainstorming is good IMO.
I just see too many similar things in places far away to think it's independent. This would be too Concrete thinking.
I'm not a Hancock or Jungian Collective Unconscious supporter.
Man shared Important techniques for a long time in many places.
They aren't bags, baskets or buckets - they're too lop-sided - these people carved what they saw - they wouldn't make them lop-sided by accident - they are clustered together in the same way that the buildings at GT are, and are similar in shape.
A modern version would be a plastic bag in one hand and a smartphone in the other...
The idea that they were representations of bags full of seeds, with piercing at the bottom, would make some sense - I've seen similar contraptions in the garden sheds of people I know! And the symbolism of spreading seeds to bring life from the earth would fit too.
Prof. David Miano did a video on his World of Antiquity channel on these handbags recently - he didn't say anything about spreading seeds though. He's an expert - I most certainly am not! In fact the idea only just occurred to me about two minutes ago. ;-)
Yes. I like that Miano video too, which is why I linked it below my video description.
There is no evidence that the people who built these structures were deliberately planting seeds though (to my knowledge) and were only taking advantage of wild species. Also, the animal iconography in each top right corner does not align with these images pertaining to agriculture.
Actually, that's not entirely true. Certainly the people at Göbekli were at least harvesting lots of wild seeds, but the newer analyses have now tentatively identified some domesticated plants too. I mention them briefly in my Open Archaeology article (www.degruyter.com/document/doi/10.1515/opar-2022-0317/html)
I think they're just car doors, telling the story of that one-time, there was a deer in the road, and it hit the windshield. Oh. And then once we hit a great big bird! ... And then Grandpa hit a....
Since these are potentially a people, first looking to become future agriculturists, i tend to see the weave patterns as bundles of wild grains they've harvested, with the three bags indicating their type or location of the grains, or perhaps a grain sacrifice to particular deities. That's a completely speculative and fantastical imagining though. ...unlike my car door theory. 😉
Car doors seems plausible.. 😉😄
@@lairdhaynes1986 if there's one thing I've learned from the scholars of alternative history, it's that, if it looks like something I can imagine, that's _probably_ what it is.
@@chucklearnslithics3751Almost like it's like the inverse of Occam's razor.
This is the "looks like a duck" approach to ancient art that I discuss in my video on pseudoarchaeology
For a practically identical symbol to appear in the Middle East and in Mexico in a time span of about 2000 years. Well, that's too much of a coincidence..
Well, obviously I disagree. First, they're not "practically identical" and second, even if they were, it doesn't take much imagination to make an object with a handle on it. Presumably, people all over the world independently figured that out thousands of times.
@@thearchaeologistslaborator6591I wouldn't say Identical, but very similar. One can't just take a Single Object/Symbolism without considering other Similar Art throughout the world.
I like your analysis overall.
But id have to disagree somewhat on you saying Cultures Independently invent things all the time. Yes, they do. To a degree this is true, but many times people are sharing technology; art; symbolism... Science even tries and finds these connections.
Plus, man in different areas of the World putting these Same objects n more in Artwork is a Completely different Importance.
In addition, finding similarities and contrasts are involved to reveal sharing through migrations from certain People And Times. Done ALLLL the time in research.
No. I'm not a Graham Hancock supporter of his Bantering on Space Aliens; or Cataclysms to End the world. He does serve a good purpose that gets people inquiring; hence, wanting more research which is good for the fields.
A pretty ancient language, Welsh, has the word for water: dw(r). So the word provided for water as d(al) w, offers some support , for water bucket
Imo that was a very informative and fair presentation, great job. I agree that the "handbags" at Gobekli are not the same as the other "bucket" type images. I did wonder when i first heard about buckets, why a bucket would be important but if it contains water, like you suggest, it seems perfectly feasible.
Thanks. Not everyone thinks I'm being fair! But I try to be.
Looks like a bucket to me. I can't imagine why someone would need a bucket.
I think you're right about the repeprezintation of buildings. The three animals are deferent things. Probably indicating a 3 clan alliance?
Thanks. That is the interpretation I offered in my 2011 article referenced below the video.
It's important to remember that they buried children in baskets at Catalhoyuk, covered with red ochre. That fact alone may narrow down what the baskets mean on Pillar 43. Cheers!
I don't believe the "bags" are showing the buildings, although a great theory, the emptiness between the "handles" and the "bag" are not mirrored in the buildings. You say there would have been a roof and I believe you are correct, it makes sense, but not a roof with open sides?
You have a point, and others have also pointed that out. And you could be right. I admit that mine is also just a theory. However, it's also true that different cultures have different artistic conventions for showing things, sometimes even showing the inside and outside of something at the same time, rather than perspective views that we might expect. Australian aboriginal art, for example, has "x-ray" views of people and animals. And you should check out how ancient Egyptian artists portrayed large, multi-room buildings (showing the "behind" or "inside" view above the front view).
The car theory seems the most appropriate. They didn't know about wheels back then, but the idea could have been about anti-gravity vehicles. The passengers in these cars had names related to, and inspired by animals 😉
The original bag contained the cone seeds from the Tree of Life in the Garden of Eden. This extraterrestrial tree bloomed flower clusters used as ornaments on their wrists. The seeds gave Adam and Eve and their offspring eternal life until they fell out of grace, severing the celestial energy current the seed contained and terminating their extended life. Their descendants carried on the tradition of the bag of seeds as they populated the world and created new kingdoms. Queen Elizabeth held the exact-shaped bag wherever she went and in her portrait.
These container type objects appear in the artwork of different people all around the world. They are very similar in design. The big question is why is such a mundane everyday object so important, and why is it so important to various people all around the world? Were the carvings all connected by a common thread? If so, what the hell was it?
Maybe they are just mundane objects. It's really only modern observers who are claiming they're "important." Imagine if some future civilization notices that there are thousands of images from the 21st century, from all over the world, that depict automobiles. Does that mean that 21st-century people worshiped automobiles? Or that they were a metaphor for the cosmos? Generally, the simplest explanation - that they were just mundane, everyday objects - is better than a fanciful speculation.
yeippes humans dumbed down repeating same old stuff .. it’s a frequency device
Very interesting and plausible theory about them being buildings with the associated animals.
Thanks!
...imagine "Noah's ark" in the foreground, just in the background the "arch of the handle", wouldn't it look like a "bag"?
Especially if the corrosion wore away any paint that existed there to identify the "rainbow" and the "ark".
The repetition in three indicates the floors of the Ark, which were three and where each species was housed.
Just go and research the subject...
I believe you are correct, and I also do not believe the supposed dates of Gobekli Tepe. The Flood was 2,370 B.C.E. so GT is likely no earliar than about 2,200 B.C.E. Babel and Ninevah preceded this place.
Why is it so hard to believe that ancient people were in communication with each other
It depends on the distance. If you’re thinking people in Turkey were communicating with people in Central America. You would have a difficult time convincing anyone of that. If you’re talking about people in Turkey communicating with people in Egypt. That’s not outside the arena of possibility.
They did in some sense; ships off course and migration etc but frequent controlled communication and trade etc is less likely without evidence.
Because it doesn't fit with the narrative. Form of confirmation bias, just change the abilities of humans but maintain the story and timeline at all costs. We need to look at human history with a holistic approach, because we continue to be shown that humans were more capable and around areas like the Americas much longer than we thought when the story of our history was written. Mainstream archaeologists seem to have that stance that everyone who questions it have to prove the negative. If there is no direct evidence of a much more advanced "civilization" of humans then we would have found it by now so it can't exist. No one seems to factor in that the world humans lived in even 12,000 years ago was incredibly different than today. Not only physically (sea levels were 400 feet lower, colder climate, massive ice sheets, meteor impact and massive change in earths physical state but also that they were surviving, not just living/thriving like we are now. They were nature, they were animals living among animals, the stars represented something special/mysterious, unique, godly and helped them understand the yearly cycles of life. How paganism was a result of humans understanding nature in a way that helped them live better lives. Art is not objective yet so much of ancient art is interpreted through OUR eyes and interpretations of what was going through their minds. They were essentially different types of humans than us. Hallucinations from certain foods seemed to be prominent with arts and medicine and spirituality yet no archaeologists I'm aware of do the drugs we think they were doing and sit in those sites and look at the stars and the art/stone work and provide interpretations from that view and compare to when someone gives a perspective from a sober, purely intellectual point of view. Interpreting art from a completely different mind set, different view of life, different understanding of the world, etc etc. must be supplemented with the acknowledgement that there will never be an answer and any opinion is just a best guess based on by assumptions
No evidence
I have seen many handbags also carried by ancient kings (carvings) from all over the world! At time 4:46 I can see 3 sorts of birds on the lower right, a Vulture, Duck and Flamingo and a strange hooked beak bird playing football :)
It's an interesting hypothesis, but in my view, to represent a dome roof by the way of drawing two lines coming out from the building (like drawing a cup handle) is a bit odd in my opinion. Like they wanted to draw a see-through cross-section of the dome, but only the dome roof, not the rest of the building. Maybe the roof was not a dome but something else.
The 'handbags' on the so called vulture stone represent sunrise for each annual solar event, winter solstice, spring equinox and summer solstice. The animals next to each were likely the animals most commonly seen in the region for each respective season. The half circle over the square is derived from the basic geometry used to lay out the four cardinal points. It's a simple process that only requires two sticks and a string as described in the Vedas. Three overlapping circles form the 'holy trinity' aka an equilateral triangle. Seven overlapping circles form the 'cosmic disk' aka the basis for the unit circle in which you have twelve thirty degree segments. Thus the reason for having twelve pillars. Perhaps if Archaeologist would spend a little time studying Mathematics and Astronomy, they would be less confused on such structures and there purpose.
Interestingly, I discuss the stakes-and-string method for marking solstices in one of my other videos, on pseudoarchaeology.
Everyone needs a place for their lip gloss.
In Assyrian wall reliefs from ancient Mesopotamia, the gods or figures often hold a basket-like object known as a “banduddu.” This object is typically depicted alongside a cone-shaped item called a “mullilu.” The banduddu is believed to be a bucket containing holy water, while the mullilu is thought to be a ritual tool used to sprinkle this water. These items were used in purification rituals and symbolize the act of cleansing, blessing and associated with the tree of life as depicted!
If you watch my video all the way through, you'll find that I actually discuss these Assyrian buckets in two places, and their use in rituals involving a sacred tree.
As synthesist I was working on a project Im calling MetroGnome.
It is based upon the phenomenon by where if someone were to line up a couple dozen metronomes and set them off randomly, they will somehow synchronize on their own.
A sacred polyrhythm that when variables are attached to different aspects, it will automatically calculate the answer perfectly and in context so all the other "metronomes" are automatically in sync.
Once you have a perfect clock, you can walk right through walls if you time it.
Intuition tells me what they were trying to convey was that the gods dumped water/the deluge...its depicting the deluge flood
Water buckets...there is fire under the buckets too...they are cooking soups...
ramen noodles was my guess
When these "things" represent buildings, there is the same problem as with the baskets, no texture... and why is the roof represented with two lines?
I hope there is a better explanation, someone is able to give.
Could be water sluices, gates that are lifted or pushed to open or close by handles as modern ones are for water channel irrigation but to catch wild prey like aquatic animals by luring them used before the advent of farming crops with irrigation channels by hunter-gatherer society so I'm wondering because they are sophisticated enough to make a settlement if originally they were nomads knowing the seasons well enough to find an ideal location to start farming wild prey in their local region encoding it making a calendar in their stone works compared to the Sumerians who knew about the Precession of the Equinoxes somehow which is about a 26000 year cycle where no one is meant to be able to live that long. They might have made bread from wild seed traditionally, then eventually began to learn to farm it once settled and bake it because they also look like bread ovens!
In culture and civilizations, we always talk about a certain organization of groups that need to be distinguished and have a defined space for mutual communication.
Communication brings changes in consciousness, changes in technology and changes in lifestyle. When assessing cultural changes, it is necessary to observe what has been added, what has remained and what has, on the contrary, disappeared.
With the probability of a certain phenomenon, we can start with the Neolithic culture, which was architecturally defined primarily by a circle (the shape of the Sun and the Moon) and a mix of reliefs of animals and handbags.
Historically, the reliefs went up to the digital recording of the surname in the matrix or family tree and in the cadastre recorded the ownership of the space.
In order to more easily understand the development of changes without fantasizing, it is good to start with a comparison with the numerically larger Neolithic cultures.
In the Mesopotamian and Sumerian cultures, reliefs of animals reached up to deified figures of man with an animal head. The main human-headed gods are followed by animal-headed figures with various attributes. The main gods have added bracelets, a pinecone in one hand is always on top and a purse is always on the bottom in the other. The significance of the symbolism of animals and handbags has been given a higher dimension for practical reasons.
The pine cone at the top symbolizes wise awareness and humility to the superiority of nature over man. But from a mathematical-geometric point of view, nature arranged the scales of the pine cone in a logarithmic spiral. The 4 m tall pine cone is kept by the Vatican to this day, without realizing its symbolic significance as a relic of the Neolithic.
The handbags document the area, joining and expanding of the lineage in cycles and have properties of the golden section; the area of the square is extended by another animal up to the golden rectangle. The handle has the shape of a semicircle, which combines the properties of the number pi with the golden ratio. Purses stacked in succession determine the cycles of patriarchal expansion and branching of lineages. The relief is divided by the tree of life, which was given its own symbol in Egypt, and the animals appear inversely as an animal with a human head or a human figure with an animal head.
The symbolic marking at Göbekli Tepe is a leap change from simplicity to greater complexity.
Today, the question arises as to how much the symbolism of the geometric record is mathematically conscious, how intuitive and how much it is an expression of the human ego, which does not change.
The idea of shifts in belief is also imposed, when from distinguishing and naming a family by a hunted animal, to a state where the founders of the family became worshiped gods, to the unification of the gods, when a man who rose from the dead and ascended to heaven became a god again, where he is to this day.
In any case, identifying remains in different parts of the Earth testify to the migratory search for new space and the diversification of the genetic code.
I saw on in the British Museum taken from Ur, they are actually solid stone.
Those handbag carvings are found in Mesoamerica even in China. These all prove the dating system that we came up with 150 years ago and the paradigm of how man expanded across the continent is falls.
I would challenge you to point out any from Mesoamerica or China that are exactly the same and, in any case, the idea of having an artifact that is roughly rectangular or cylindrical with an arched handle is hardly rocket science. Any culture could easily come up with that on its own (I have several buckets in my garage that could easily fit the bill). Either way, they say nothing about dating systems.
@@thearchaeologistslaborator6591 and I challenge your authority as a “expert“ you have quite a cottage industry and telling people what happened thousands of years ago even if the evidence does not support it, don’t believe you’re lying eyes only believe us, experts, right .that’s what you were saying no thanks
I am precisely trying to assess these claims with evidence. And when I do offer what is only my opinion (as in the buildings hypothesis), I say so, and admit that there are other possibilities. And you still haven't answered my question: what are the same carvings you claim exist in Mesoamerica and China and what do they have to do with dating systems?
@@thearchaeologistslaborator6591
It might be that it’s not rocket science to draw a handbag but critically it’s not likely they would waste their time doing it without a reason especially when we have no contemporary equivalent that stands out. Why would anyone decide to draw a bucket is a good question but why would peoples spread across the globe all depict them is the key? It is simply not an obvious thing to do so we must surmise there was a deep significance behind their depiction. The dating aspect is also crucial. I’ve not kept up with contemporary theories of global migration and when it started but one thing we can say is the the bags were around in Gobekli Teoe circa 10000 BC and then across the world some time later. Does the timeline (whatever it is) fit with accepted theory especially relating to intelligent communication between peoples given that someone had to migrate with the story of the handbag and convey its importance to someone somewhere else. Unless, and here is the rider, they also saw the same ‘thing’ independently and depicted it. I would argue that the chance of two remote peoples both drawing handbags as an independent random kind of ‘muse’ is very low. The handbag has a meaning, we don’t know what it is, several sets of ancient peoples depicted them and we don’t know why. Did they communicate the message of the bags to each other or see them independently - the former depends on migration theory - I’d be interested for you to track that down. Good video BTW.
Very well presented, it’s a very balanced view. It could also be that the wheat growing underneath the baskets is what’s needed to make the baskets. That’s why it’s directly underneath growing.
Although it would make more sense to have the baskets with wheat carved into them, I think showing the process of how to makes them was more important.
Is it beyond comprehension that humans all over the world might decide that a light weight hollow thing with loops on top for your hands to go through might be useful for carrying things? Is humans wanting to carry around more stuff than they can cup in their hands less likely than aliens or Atlantis?
But, these are clearly skilled artists who would assumedly know what a basket looks like and who are clearly capable of carving stone no problem. Why would the handle not extend to the right side like a regular basket? Unless they're a symbolic representation or some sort of object we aren't familiar with. I'm not convinced they're baskets.
As you'll see at the end of my video, I don't think they're baskets either
I think it's a pair up device it holds your information to control your vehicle or device
The “handbags” are buckets filled with water to feed the tree of life.
Wow thats a lot of hard work taking months with copper tools just to show us plain old water buckets..😂😂😂😂
OK. But returning to what I said about distinguishing strong analogies from weaker ones, this hypothesis would be stronger if 1) the pillar showed a plausible indication of water, 2) a tree was depicted anywhere (in fact vegetation doesn't seem to be a typical feature in Göbekli art, and 3) somebody's hand was shown grasping the "handle".
It is a suggestive hypothesis that would explain the presence of animals at the top, on the sides, but it is also a truly minimal way to represent buildings. I hope that with further excavations, a definitive answer can be given.
Pillar 43 is an instruction manual on attaining samadhi.
The figure of the handbags represent higher consciousness =opening your conscious mind to another dimension.
The vulture motiff holding the sun-vultures soar high on thermal currents if our heart is filled with love for GOD your consciousness can soar ever higher into the infinite /eternal source.
The serpent on the left=the Kundalini energy.The man without a head holding an erect penis=If the 2nd chakra is awakened the reproductive hormones reaches tge pineal gland,detaching ones mind from this dimension.
The entire layout of Gobleki tepe is a spiritual convention center.
See Ramana Maharshi Be as You Are Chapter 12 Experience and Samadhi...Sahaja samadhi-the unified field of awareness or Born Again when the ego is destroyed along with its subconscious mind-unconscious mind revealing the superconscious mind of 24/7.
The hand baskets are seed exchange containers. Nothing was more valuable at that time than the variety and hybrid seeds.The need for grain seeds, crosses time and emerging agricultural cultures. (copyright 2023 Jerome A Cook) 9:28 "distinguish seeds" agriculture
Those handbags are everywhere😮
Water buckets.
No reason to amplify them to anything else.
It's not mobility of Ancient peoples,but, the presence of a world wide Domination Race/Peoples/ Civilization ,
The bag and pine cone represent the seed of life/ gift of life. The pine cone is a representation of the Pineal Gland and whole thing represents assention to a higher being/consciousness.
The winged beings are Anunnaki "gods" passing on the knowledge of such.
I. Believe that people often sell the ancients short on their literate and numerate abilities. I believe the the ‘bags’ are weights, one being the weight of a man and the other the weight of a common animal, probably a horse. The carved illustrations do not need to be the size of a man or horse, as long as the weight is shown pictorially.
If this had anything to do with weights, it certainly would not be the weight of a horse, as horses did not exist in Turkey during the Neolithic. You'll also note that the Göbekli reliefs depict lots of animals, but never horses.
The symbols illustrate the pot holes used to lever out the blocks. The wave lines above it are the grass surrounding the quarry.
The mound is illustrated below, off in the distance from the blocks.
The animals surround the landscape.
All things that would have been in the field of view of the person represented by the pillar.
What’s more interesting is that the thumb usually, not always, sticks out towards the front rather than closing around the other fingers, as if pushing a button, lever or something. I kind of doubt symbolism there.
Great video boss! 🙏💪
Hi. Everything is much simpler than it may seem. All animals on the pillars represent the terrain, that's why these animals look so strange, because they are symbolic representations of hills, mountains, and so on. The well-known "bags" are waves, the small animals above them represent the destruction these waves can bring. So the pillars are a map of the terrain and "bags" (waves) warn people that it's dangerous there. If you open Google Maps and look thoroughly you can see it. Good Luck.
I found an angel it looks like about four inches tall and it's holding a handbag in Kentucky USA
I found an angel in Kentucky USA about four inches tall and it's holding a handbag
Maybe they need something added to our air to stay alive
Every craftsman needs a bag for tools of the trade, three bags would suggest three crafts.
The hand bag is meant to carry salt. Once upon a time salt was more precious than gold and diamond.
Imho, it doesn't make a lot of sense to be representations of the temples for a number of reasons. The difference in height between the pillars doesn't allow for such a parabolic arch. but i really like the effort, and we certainly cannot exclude this theory
You certainly have a point, but it's also possible that the artist didn't need to show realistic proportions to get the meaning across to his or her contemporaries, who of course would have had much better familiarity with whatever was meant than we are.
I found an angel made of rock about four inches tall and she is holding a handbag found in Kentucky USA
Is a hand baterie we can SEE it in the olmec monument of la venta
Does it really matter if the baskets/bags held by carved stone gods or leaders are absolutely identical to one another? The fact remains the sculptors across the world and at different times held these items important enough to carve them. My best guess they are representing the act of superior beings gifting different cultures with knowledge of one sort or another and this seems rather obvious.
I appreciate the theory and interpretation and acknowledgement that it's your best guess and that we don't have enough (almost certainly never will) information to know the meaning of art feom people who essentially (from life experience and world view) were a different species than us.
We know hallucination drugs were prevelent in certain areas and how that affects the mind, spirituality, medicine, understanding of the world, nature and everything else... Yet it doesnt seem like many people even try to put themselves in the mindset and locations of our ancestors before making their interpretations of art or structures. Of course its not easy or even possible for many, but when Graham hancock goes to central America or S America, takes peyote and looks at ancient art, i think that interpretation is more relevant than anyone who looks at some photos on the computer. Not saying that's all you did, just in general. I'm sure if you went to an ancient site, did the drug(s) we expect them to have done, spent days under the stars and in that location (even though most are very different now) I'm sure you'd agree that you likely would have different interpretations of art and structures. Maybe not wildly different but it would change your perspective in a way that you would be looking at the world closer to how they saw it. Not saying humans used to be all drugged out but hopefully you get the point. And my guess is more typically the "elite" or most influential ones (shamans, rulers, etc) were likely using hallucinogens and sharing their views/understanding of life and spirituality
As a whole, i wish more people looked at human history from a more holistic approach. What human life was like, spiritually, physically (climate and water levels 400' lower, huge animals to kill for food, etc), their way of life (survival vs thriving), their need to understand the stars and earth to improve their lives but knowing seasons and animal migrations etc.... humans were vastly different than we are now and we try to fit them into our box, or focusing on one site and arguing that interpretations of it explain how humans lived... and it's just not accurate, just a best guess from a completely disconnected human perspective.
The most unfortunate thing of all is that so much of the more modern of ancient history that we can access (and not hundreds of feet deep in the ocean) is in the middle east where a certain religion wants to destroy everything that doesn't support their view, it's dangerous to travel and study and look for new sites, and that so much has already been looted/destroyed. Unless we keep looking, especially in amazon and under the sea, and china(? Rarely see/hear about archaeology sites in china), indus valley, we will remain looking at history with a limited set of data. Lastly, i think there should be a shift in mainstream narrative that in fact we now know our long standing story is now out of date and has been proven wrong repeatedly, and that's exciting not bothersome.
I wish there was a way to "know" haha because I think it's so fascinating. A time machine would be great
As someone who has done archaeology in the Middle East for more than 40 years, I can tell you that fieldwork is very active there in any country where it's safe to operate (e.g., obviously not in Syria for the past 14 years or so, and not in Iraq during the war there), and that religion has little to nothing to do with it. For example, in Egypt, the fact that it's predominantly Muslim hasn't prevented research on the pharaonic through classical periods and, in Jordan where I mostly work, there is tons of work on prehistoric through classical periods.
They are kete(baskets) they are woven from harakeke(Flaxs) the icons are brids and insects.......the 3 kete of knowledge
You said in the video that a bucket is a "mundane" object. I was under the impression that every single engraving on the stones had meaning. Otherwise, why document it? I've always wondered if the "handbags" represents Knowledge that was shared between cultures.
I'm not sure I get your point. By "mundane," I only meant that there's no reason to assume that it is something sacred, as many people have claimed. That's not to say that it could not be sacred; only that it doesn't have to be.
Carrying water, or some other liquid?
Sir that is not the Egyptian motif that has the handbags. The Egyptian ones look just like the Mayan ones, Gobekli tepe and the Sumerians. And that's not all and they're all square with an arched handle.
Some people say they are buckets which I disagree.
Sorry. I don't know which item you're referring to. Egyptian art shows people carrying lots of things, but the most common "regular" appearances are that ankh symbol and some kind of staff. I don't recall any figure grasping a bag or basket by an arched handle.
The idea that because disparate cultures all used bags or baskets with handles that must mean they are all somehow connected is absurd.
I agree.
Looking at something and comparing it to something you know is not some sort of logical fallacy. It is a starting point for framing an idea and of course as humans we will look at other humans and relate to them.
Hi. I thought I explicitly talked about this (analogy). It is used in a lot of archaeology and is not, in itself, any kind of logical fallacy. However, some analogies are stronger than others. So far, probably none of those offered for these things (including my own suggestion) is particularlly strong.
The tree is the tree of knowledge and the pine cone is the fruit from the tree of knowledge. The sages collect knowledge(pine cone represents knowledge,wisdom and the sages taught man how to makes weapons and mathematics and astrology. Sages are also called the shining ones. The Sages carried knowledge and wisdom with them. Take another look at this
The “bags” could be a representation of a hut with the rectangle as the walls and arch the roof. Along side each is an animal figure. These could be clan totems, the fox lodge, boar lodge, etc
That's pretty much exactly what I said toward the end of the video.
@@thearchaeologistslaborator6591 So I saw when I got to the end. Go call. It was my take after visiting GT some years ago. Do you think the fox skin loin cloth on the pillar corresponds to the clan totem in the design?
I think it would take further analysis to see if there's any patterning in the use of fox pelts, rather than something else, as loin cloths. I do suspect that different social groups were associated with different animals, but whether that extended to their loin cloths, I don't know.
The bags belong to Noah’s three sons . The progenitor of the human race had seed crops on the ark. He became a farmer. The sons of Noah were the source of the “ seed” of the entire human race. The t pillars are dolmens the horizontal part symbolizes the ark . The water sign embossed on the base indicates the flood sediment was still soft
The bird character at the bottom looks to be holding a ball. Also looks to have teammates. Maybe that was an image of the bird clan going to play ball against the " fox " and "frog" clans. The "handbags" show the "clubhouses" with each teams mascot. Just a thought to consider.
Interpretation of that circle makes at least as much sense as some of the other interpretations on offer.
They look like flamingos or other waterfowl. These are mostly zoomorphic carvings.
It’s obvious that the baskets are small European cars with the wheels covered. Let’s not get too complicated with basket or building theories.
Fuckit, they're buckets!
I just finished watching another video about these stone pillars and what those images with the little animals on them, the bound sheaf image just below them and the particular animals below that. The hypothesis is that the animals represent a season of the year. Now, you might say, so what? Well, I come from a family of Kansas dry land wheat farmers. There are two times to plant wheat in every calendar year. We see there are 3 bag like images, 2 have clear little animals on them and there seems to be something on the bag to the right, but it isn't as clear. Any guesses about that? If it's a human, does than then indicate the best season for humans to procreate? Could it be that the larger animal images are representative of the four seasons, and the little animals including a human are an instruction to plant during that season? More, a basket like that can be made of leather and can carry water or, with punctures in the bottom, spread seed.
How come you didn’t include a Link to that “other video”?
@@alanwerner8563 it was from the Ancient Architects channel. That's all I remember now.
The difference between the global bags and these, are these have an animal above each one, and to the same side of the handle..
the "animal" on the basket flat area is a headless human. My guess. The vulture holds a human head on it's wing. perhps the "basket" holds human heads. Perhaps the grain like pattern is a harvest and the three images, basket-grain- vulture (ball) are linked to ritual human sacrifice
It's not a basket
It's A ton box with handles
FACT
The bags symbolize Noah’s 3 sons since their “bags” were the source of all humanity
Show the pillar with a bag in the left hand of a carving!! The bags contain pinecones or high tech that looked like pinecones.
At Göbekli, several of the larger pillars have arms and hands, but I'm not aware of any on which a hand is grasping anything. They're just placed symmetrically on the pillar's "stomach." Where have you seen this hand holding a bag?
@@thearchaeologistslaborator6591 ,,ancient sumerian artifacts is the only place ive seen it
If they look like handbags then they are handbags or baskets...so the depictions of a dinosaur like the stegosarus and others must then be exactly that right? you cant use that logic and only oucj and choose when its the case and when its not.
I don't think you finished the video. I concluded that they probably aren't baskets and offered a different interpretation.
My first guess was buildings. The little animals are suggestive.
As the ancient Mesopotamian story goes, Ninurta (the God of Agriculture and Science) descended from the Heavens to share his knowledge of cultivation with humans. These bags are possibly representative of knowledge. The elephant not in the room is the human head, but the globe represents a form of something the human head carries:- the totality of soul+intellect which gods can interact with at a higher realm while the material world shown below is cyclical - scorpion represents that - and human life goes on from generation to generation through reproduction, and is carried(protected) by another bird, which again is representative of a metaphysical being. These birds are the proto-forms of gods that evolved into many forms and shapes in following millennia through different cultures.
Another reason for the One & Only: [God Almighty]; to dismiss these mythological, heathen cultures.
Maybe each culture is depicting something they all saw. Maybe it was something in the sky.
The problem with most academia is they suffer from a form of tunnel vision, they can't see outside of their biased box..
That's easy to say, Samantha, but, speaking for myself, I've often changed my mind about something archaeological when somebody shows me something I missed. The key thing in academia is to base our interpretations on actual evidence, not just wishful thinking. That doesn't mean we never speculate, but the speculation only serves to come up with hypotheses that we then subject to data to see if they hold up or not.
Erm you should check for images again with regards to Egypt and them 'handbags' haha
Could The gobeki Tepe objects be waves. Them being a dwelling or a directory towards a certain places. Makes the most sense
Out of all other theories Ive head
I'm not following what exactly you mean here. Maybe explain it a bit more?
@@thearchaeologistslaborator6591 Hi. I think he means this ruclips.net/video/FxhDzbnDKsA/видео.html&ab_channel=HermanLewis
How is it archeologists have dug up everything but one of these bags,no one knows what they were for,just continues to speculate nonesense.
It could mean a traveler…most possible local ppl who met global travelers got fascinated so to carve stones with them on
Those are tool bags or lunch bags
Obviously they’re the local plugs……the cones are really ganja buds & the bags are their stash bags !………😉
The 12 walled paths of 12 gates of 1st Eden, leading to the precinct and temple of the tree of life at the centre of the sanctuary.
A Cherub with a flaming sword guarded entrance back into the Garden.
It would be exceedingly difficult to mount an argument that these representations held no significance for anyone at the time. So, how were they significant - - at the time?
Certainly no one is saying that they have no significance. The question is what that significance is or was.
@@thearchaeologistslaborator6591 I speak American English and you speak British English, but I think we are more or less saying the same thing. Additionally, I wished to imply that their use was so remote in time that their usage might be
incomprehensible to us presently.
If anyone is interested, I can tell you about a primitive method of planting grain seeds in Central America. A similar appearing bag is used for the process.
Actually, I speak Canadian English. But I agree that they could have significance that would be difficult or maybe even impossible for us to figure out today. But I still hope that we will eventually find some clues that make their meaning more intelligible.
If anything we can say they must have have deep significance given how widely their depiction is spread around the world. They wouldn’t waste their time and space depicting them if they didn’t wish to convey some information.
I do know most of time they show up in a god like king or god hand like that but there is only one I've seen of a god having two of them but never seen three in one spot 🤔
It's an eletric car, made in Italy.