When I bought my house and built my new studio, the room had some serious issues with so many nulls in the sub frequencies. I thought I was gonna have to spend thousands of dollars on room treatment to get the best out of my sub and really hear and feel that low end. I consulted with an acoustician and he said "Why go through all that trouble? Just buy a second sub." And I said "No, I dont need more bass, I need even bass." to which he said No, thats not the point. Your one sub no matter where you put it in that room is going to have alot of nulls, so the second one will most likely peak where the other sub nulls. Andddddd sonnnn of a bitch...he was right. I just bought a second sub and essentially have what he called a "poor mans 3-way setup". 2 subs, located directly under each speaker and where one sub nulled, the other sub peaked...completely evening my bass response in my room and I never heard or felt sub so beautiful ever in my life. So "room acoustics without all the voodoo" - buy a second sub. Thats why alot of major studios have multi sub set ups because....it's really the right way to go. DOnt cave into thousand dollars of "carbon technology" *cough* Denis Foley *cough*....just buy another sub to fill in the frequencies where the first sub is lacking. Its that simple and while I thought it would be complicated like you said...its far from it.
I have 2 questions, Does the central heating unit interfere here? Which is next to the sub. And those diffusers, does that have a good effect in that position and is that an idea in a livingroom? And if yes, which type is this ? Cheers!
Nice padded room ya got there, you must have spent a small fortune on that furniture cushioning/bedding. Just about all the guru's say than an anechoic room is not really what you want. But I can tell you that I want one very much! Nice demo. Cheers 🍻
Best solution is to buy 2 subwoofers and place one near left speaker and one near right speaker. This will allow you to avoid phase problems and this will allow you to raise the crossover frequency.
Not near... *under*. Stick the subs under the speakers. Then if you're a clever bastard, you put a pair of smaller subs in the rear corners with a time delay and inverted phase, to kill off some of the rear wall reflections / mitigate the pressure zone. Use a measurement mic to calibrate it all properly. This is what I do for live sound, or for a studio. Phase tricks aren't very compatible with bass reflex subs, those are a bit of a nightmare for phase and group delay reasons.
@@mb-electricalservices An 8361 still only gets you down to 32 Hz at best. I own the Genelec 7360A 10" Subwoofer. It goes down to 19 Hz. I have it hooked up to a Hosa FSC-501 bypass switch. When you hit that switch you can hear a big difference in bass-heavy music. Turned up a bit... and it will vibrate half of the entire house! Genelec makes some amazing subwoofers.
In my home studio I don't have a single fixed listening position due to jamming on different hardware synths. A major pain point for me is the very uneven bass response at different positions in the room. Given the subwoofer is mono, would I be able to get a more even bass response at different listening positions in the room since the two speakers wouldn't cancel each other out?
Do you mean with 2 subs? You'll have cancellation and reinforcement points in your room no matter what. placing 1 sub well can minimize those issues at a specific listening position, but bass will always change throughout the room. With 2 subs you will get twice as many cancellation/reinforcement points with a narrower distritubtion of effect on average. With properly placed subs, the points can stagger so one can provice bass at points where the other cancels with itself, but that's still very position dependant. What I recommend is walking all over the room to triangulate on the "true" sub level, taking note of what frequencies cancel at each position, and also tying this back to what the spectrum says the subs are doing. That way you can correct for what you hear. E.g. I know where I usually sit, E-F# gets cancelled the worst and A#-C gets reinforced the most, while frequencies inbetween are pretty honest, however sitting on my couch (that more toward the corner), essentially all the sub range is reinforced. That's why I move around, find the hot and cold spots bc then you know the middle between them is accruate *for that frequency* (but not others, fyi, incase your bass isn't just sitting at one note).
Thanks for the detailed video, I have a different question for you. In your video I see that you have exactly the same heater unit as what I have in mine, it is the one with holes in it. Now what happens is that it carries sound to neighbours. Sometimes I can also hear neighbours from in there if they are loud. A while ago my neighbour told me that he could hear me taking calls if I am loud (when I was actually very near that unit (similar to your setup). Now I want to do some audio production at home and also record some songs with me singing but I am just too afraid that it will disturb others. So my question is what do you do to not let sound escape through it ? In summer I basically just cover the whole thing with some covers. I was also thinking to buy the sound proof curtains and wrap it up for summer, but this is not a proper solution.
Thank you! I have always been sceptical about phase issues when placing subwoofers. I mean, at 80 hz the wavelength is over 4 meters, so it would take a misplacement of over 2 meters to achieve a full phase shift in theory. Thoughts?
In a properly treated room you can have the satellites as far as the sub and still get that in your face sound with belly shaking bass ..so yeah subs ftw !! But need really good bastrapping for them,!
Congratulations, you're using logic Felitsius! ............ And your serving your Greek philosophical heritage well. Nice to hear from a functioning Brain. Reggae, Funk & Brass 🔈🔉🔊
Hi there, i have a set of Adam Audio T5V's and the accompanying T10S Subwoofer. The satellite speakers have a Low Frequency dip switch to boost or cut by 2 db as well as a flat setting. With my subwoofer up and running in this configuration would i leave the Low Frequency control switch set to flat? Any thought? Hope that makes sense.
Does it mention at what frequency that dip switch affects? This is probably to combat the crossover from your sub to your tops. The only way to know which position that switch should be in is to get a measurement mic and see if you see a dip in that frequency that switch is set for
Hi there, gret video series, thank you..., how do i connect this subwoofer to the audient Nero i just bought? Just plug a TRS Jack from the SUB out on the back to the Audient Nero ( Monitor Controller) in the Left IN TRS of the Sub? Thank you if you can answer. I cant find anything about this metter on the web. How actually connect a Sub to the Audient Nero Sub connection out.
The issue with using the subwoofer out on the Nero (I have one as well) is that you don't get the benefit of using the crossover that many subwoofers have built in for this purpose. The Nero sends full spectrum audio to to the sub output and the to monitors. In my case I use my subwoofer's built in crossover and its jack that can take a foot switch. So my monitors get full spectrum audio when the sub is off and when I turn the sub on with the footswitch the crossover engages for the monitors.
I'm having a nightmare. It's actually ruining my daily mood. I went from a corner sofa, to a 3 and 2 sofa set, and now the bass from the subwoofer has just disappeared. Really limited space in the room to place the sub, also. Will panels and difussers help?
I own the Genelec 7360A 10" Subwoofer. It goes down to 19 Hz. It sounds very clear with no distortion. I have it hooked up to a Hosa FSC-501 bypass switch. When you hit that switch you can hear a big difference in bass-heavy music. Turned up a bit... and it will vibrate half of the entire house! Genelec makes amazing subwoofers.
Positioning androom acoustics are the most important , for example my krk 12.4 that i purchashed today sounds verry bad if i place it on the side of the room and not betwin the monitors ...also i have to do something with the room ,because the sounds bounce around like crazy
I have noticed that placing the sub on a yoga mattress give it more impact. But you should lean it down instead (landscape mode) rather than placing it on its leg. I have FEEL the difference....
Funny thing is I know a famous producer/engineer that had 2 professional acousticians come to his home studio to help him get his room where he wanted it. They failed. He ended up doing it himself and got it where he wanted it. All the advice they gave him didn't work. Be warry of some of these so called acousticians. They all have a different opinion on something that is supposed be a factual science .A lot of them try to show you graphs and all this technical jargon. Most of it BS marketing to get you to buy something. Do your research folks. Not saying this channel is BS. Just saying people need to be careful.
I think this channel is some of the least dodgy out of all the sound improvement channels. He mostly promotes sound absorbent that you can make yourself, and he even promote the quantity vs quality idea, so no esoteric shapes or positions, pretty much just put as much padding in your room as possible and that's it.
This channel is one of the few examples of someone who actually knows what they’re talking about and does it with measurements A lot of acoustic folks seem to do things in remarkably unscientific ways
Hope this is useful. I used two subs thirty forty years ago. I am 77! Place one on the outside of the left speaker and one on the outside of the right speaker. Connect the main speakers 180 ° out of phase. Turn the phase adjustment knob until the low frequency sound products at its lowest. It is easier to hear the lowest sound instead of the loudest. When the low is lowest that means it’s out of phase. Now connect the main speaker inputs in- phase! They should be in phase and time aligned.
W8 M8, youare on the right angle but, the sound frequencies travel and different speeds xD so if you place the sub in the same distance as speakers the sound waves will arrive at different time anyway xDDD There is enough logic behind you to watch the whole video and if you do believe it works it works BUT yare the type of a guy that overthink it just like me xD Problem with subwoofer is that the reflection of the wave matter a lot more than the placement therefore ironically the placement is very important if we have untreated room with reflections all over making dead zones for certain frequencies. In ideal conditions the room should have no reflections at all so you can hear the wave at the same amplitude in every spot in the room, which is pretty much utopic. So as long I do agree it would be ideal to have the frequencies get to you in exact same time is pretty darn impossible because of the nature of the sound, we can get close enough but the whole psychoacoustic image will be completely different from a perfect time alignment. Then first you need to think for room acoustics to combat reflections or/also fix the placement to get the linear frequency response and then time if yoare crazy enough to measure and calculate soundwave propagation times xD
Cant trust anyone who choose a ”studio” with a slapback delay in the room. Standing waves will love that environment. And that measurment is insanely bad. If you have that problems in the beginning. Dont even consider a subwoofer.
You silly subwoofer people need a brain wipe & complete re-education............... Here's one to ponder and as you do, try & think of all the subwoofer placement theories. Ready? I'll quote myself. "If you can hear it, then there's a stereo image". Reggae, Funk & Brass 🔈🔉🔊
Modern day receivers can calibrate speaker distances, sound waves and phases.. dude this is a long drawn out video for subwoofer placement.. this is not rocket science. Omg.. video is too long for no reason
If a decent, capable pair of speakers were purchased in the first place, there would be no need for subwoofers!!!! It seems the current fashion to fill rooms with as many speakers as possible, which is a foolish approach because it just causes more problems. Ive got 2 speakers in my room and I'm willing to wager that my system sounds and performs better than 95% of the hifi systems owned by people watching these types of video. Id also bet it sounds better than 99.9% of home cinema systems. Subwoofers are for correcting mistakes already made.
When I bought my house and built my new studio, the room had some serious issues with so many nulls in the sub frequencies. I thought I was gonna have to spend thousands of dollars on room treatment to get the best out of my sub and really hear and feel that low end. I consulted with an acoustician and he said "Why go through all that trouble? Just buy a second sub." And I said "No, I dont need more bass, I need even bass." to which he said No, thats not the point. Your one sub no matter where you put it in that room is going to have alot of nulls, so the second one will most likely peak where the other sub nulls. Andddddd sonnnn of a bitch...he was right. I just bought a second sub and essentially have what he called a "poor mans 3-way setup". 2 subs, located directly under each speaker and where one sub nulled, the other sub peaked...completely evening my bass response in my room and I never heard or felt sub so beautiful ever in my life. So "room acoustics without all the voodoo" - buy a second sub. Thats why alot of major studios have multi sub set ups because....it's really the right way to go. DOnt cave into thousand dollars of "carbon technology" *cough* Denis Foley *cough*....just buy another sub to fill in the frequencies where the first sub is lacking. Its that simple and while I thought it would be complicated like you said...its far from it.
Your room sounds quite lively.
Thanks for the vid, I’m getting my first svs sub and I wanted a good placement. Thanks for the help
thanks for the knowledge that frequency > localization for sub placement
There is some good points in this video. Most of it suggesting to do some testing.
so where am I supposed to place my sub mate? lol
I have 2 questions,
Does the central heating unit interfere here? Which is next to the sub.
And those diffusers, does that have a good effect in that position and is that an idea in a livingroom? And if yes, which type is this ?
Cheers!
Nice padded room ya got there, you must have spent a small fortune on that furniture cushioning/bedding. Just about all the guru's say than an anechoic room is not really what you want. But I can tell you that I want one very much! Nice demo. Cheers 🍻
just sit on it and feel that bass
Thanks :)
Best solution is to buy 2 subwoofers and place one near left speaker and one near right speaker. This will allow you to avoid phase problems and this will allow you to raise the crossover frequency.
And get a good AVR, the AVR software will also fix everything.
Not near... *under*. Stick the subs under the speakers.
Then if you're a clever bastard, you put a pair of smaller subs in the rear corners with a time delay and inverted phase, to kill off some of the rear wall reflections / mitigate the pressure zone. Use a measurement mic to calibrate it all properly. This is what I do for live sound, or for a studio. Phase tricks aren't very compatible with bass reflex subs, those are a bit of a nightmare for phase and group delay reasons.
@@weareallbeingwatched4602 or.....if you're a REALLY clever bastard, you'll buy a pair of Genelec 8361's and never need a subwoofer at all! :)
@@mb-electricalservices But less flexibility re: the origination point of the low freq origination point.
@@mb-electricalservices An 8361 still only gets you down to 32 Hz at best. I own the Genelec 7360A 10" Subwoofer. It goes down to 19 Hz. I have it hooked up to a Hosa FSC-501 bypass switch. When you hit that switch you can hear a big difference in bass-heavy music. Turned up a bit... and it will vibrate half of the entire house! Genelec makes some amazing subwoofers.
In my home studio I don't have a single fixed listening position due to jamming on different hardware synths. A major pain point for me is the very uneven bass response at different positions in the room. Given the subwoofer is mono, would I be able to get a more even bass response at different listening positions in the room since the two speakers wouldn't cancel each other out?
Do you mean with 2 subs? You'll have cancellation and reinforcement points in your room no matter what. placing 1 sub well can minimize those issues at a specific listening position, but bass will always change throughout the room.
With 2 subs you will get twice as many cancellation/reinforcement points with a narrower distritubtion of effect on average. With properly placed subs, the points can stagger so one can provice bass at points where the other cancels with itself, but that's still very position dependant.
What I recommend is walking all over the room to triangulate on the "true" sub level, taking note of what frequencies cancel at each position, and also tying this back to what the spectrum says the subs are doing. That way you can correct for what you hear. E.g. I know where I usually sit, E-F# gets cancelled the worst and A#-C gets reinforced the most, while frequencies inbetween are pretty honest, however sitting on my couch (that more toward the corner), essentially all the sub range is reinforced. That's why I move around, find the hot and cold spots bc then you know the middle between them is accruate *for that frequency* (but not others, fyi, incase your bass isn't just sitting at one note).
Thanks for the detailed video,
I have a different question for you.
In your video I see that you have exactly the same heater unit as what I have in mine, it is the one with holes in it.
Now what happens is that it carries sound to neighbours. Sometimes I can also hear neighbours from in there if they are loud. A while ago my neighbour told me that he could hear me taking calls if I am loud (when I was actually very near that unit (similar to your setup). Now I want to do some audio production at home and also record some songs with me singing but I am just too afraid that it will disturb others. So my question is what do you do to not let sound escape through it ? In summer I basically just cover the whole thing with some covers. I was also thinking to buy the sound proof curtains and wrap it up for summer, but this is not a proper solution.
Thank you! I have always been sceptical about phase issues when placing subwoofers. I mean, at 80 hz the wavelength is over 4 meters, so it would take a misplacement of over 2 meters to achieve a full phase shift in theory. Thoughts?
you can achive the same effect without moving the sub at all... using a small delay c:
In a properly treated room you can have the satellites as far as the sub and still get that in your face sound with belly shaking bass ..so yeah subs ftw !! But need really good bastrapping for them,!
what about positioning the sub on the same level/hight as the other speakers? WOuld that not contribute to the signal beeing in phase?
Congratulations, you're using logic Felitsius! ............
And your serving your Greek philosophical heritage well. Nice to hear from a functioning Brain.
Reggae, Funk & Brass 🔈🔉🔊
Hi there, i have a set of Adam Audio T5V's and the accompanying T10S Subwoofer. The satellite speakers have a Low Frequency dip switch to boost or cut by 2 db as well as a flat setting. With my subwoofer up and running in this configuration would i leave the Low Frequency control switch set to flat? Any thought? Hope that makes sense.
Does it mention at what frequency that dip switch affects? This is probably to combat the crossover from your sub to your tops. The only way to know which position that switch should be in is to get a measurement mic and see if you see a dip in that frequency that switch is set for
Hi there, gret video series, thank you..., how do i connect this subwoofer to the audient Nero i just bought? Just plug a TRS Jack from the SUB out on the back to the Audient Nero ( Monitor Controller) in the Left IN TRS of the Sub? Thank you if you can answer. I cant find anything about this metter on the web. How actually connect a Sub to the Audient Nero Sub connection out.
The issue with using the subwoofer out on the Nero (I have one as well) is that you don't get the benefit of using the crossover that many subwoofers have built in for this purpose. The Nero sends full spectrum audio to to the sub output and the to monitors. In my case I use my subwoofer's built in crossover and its jack that can take a foot switch. So my monitors get full spectrum audio when the sub is off and when I turn the sub on with the footswitch the crossover engages for the monitors.
I'm having a nightmare. It's actually ruining my daily mood. I went from a corner sofa, to a 3 and 2 sofa set, and now the bass from the subwoofer has just disappeared. Really limited space in the room to place the sub, also. Will panels and difussers help?
FYI, the affiliate link doesn't resolve to the HEDD subwoofer page - wouldn't want you to miss out :)
Oh yeah
Wouldn't an out of time phase create a 3D kind of field? Depending on where you place the sum'
If your sub is over wheels why it can't be placed over a furniture that has been designed to be sturdy?
I own the Genelec 7360A 10" Subwoofer. It goes down to 19 Hz. It sounds very clear with no distortion. I have it hooked up to a Hosa FSC-501 bypass switch. When you hit that switch you can hear a big difference in bass-heavy music. Turned up a bit... and it will vibrate half of the entire house! Genelec makes amazing subwoofers.
19:25 This felt so unnatural and like he had to say it xD
Positioning androom acoustics are the most important , for example my krk 12.4 that i purchashed today sounds verry bad if i place it on the side of the room and not betwin the monitors ...also i have to do something with the room ,because the sounds bounce around like crazy
I have noticed that placing the sub on a yoga mattress give it more impact. But you should lean it down instead (landscape mode) rather than placing it on its leg. I have FEEL the difference....
hmm ill try it
Funny thing is I know a famous producer/engineer that had 2 professional acousticians come to his home studio to help him get his room where he wanted it. They failed. He ended up doing it himself and got it where he wanted it. All the advice they gave him didn't work. Be warry of some of these so called acousticians. They all have a different opinion on something that is supposed be a factual science .A lot of them try to show you graphs and all this technical jargon. Most of it BS marketing to get you to buy something. Do your research folks. Not saying this channel is BS. Just saying people need to be careful.
I think this channel is some of the least dodgy out of all the sound improvement channels. He mostly promotes sound absorbent that you can make yourself, and he even promote the quantity vs quality idea, so no esoteric shapes or positions, pretty much just put as much padding in your room as possible and that's it.
I suspect you do not understand the graphs or technical jargon. Generally people do not like what they do not understand.
Everything is always subjective
It’s crazy that people lie just to make a buck. Great info here.
This channel is one of the few examples of someone who actually knows what they’re talking about and does it with measurements
A lot of acoustic folks seem to do things in remarkably unscientific ways
Hope this is useful.
I used two subs thirty forty years ago. I am 77!
Place one on the outside of the left speaker and one on the outside of the right speaker. Connect the main speakers 180 ° out of phase. Turn the phase adjustment knob until the low frequency sound products at its lowest. It is easier to hear the lowest sound instead of the loudest. When the low is lowest that means it’s out of phase. Now connect the main speaker inputs in- phase! They should be in phase and time aligned.
W8 M8, youare on the right angle but, the sound frequencies travel and different speeds xD so if you place the sub in the same distance as speakers the sound waves will arrive at different time anyway xDDD There is enough logic behind you to watch the whole video and if you do believe it works it works BUT yare the type of a guy that overthink it just like me xD Problem with subwoofer is that the reflection of the wave matter a lot more than the placement therefore ironically the placement is very important if we have untreated room with reflections all over making dead zones for certain frequencies. In ideal conditions the room should have no reflections at all so you can hear the wave at the same amplitude in every spot in the room, which is pretty much utopic. So as long I do agree it would be ideal to have the frequencies get to you in exact same time is pretty darn impossible because of the nature of the sound, we can get close enough but the whole psychoacoustic image will be completely different from a perfect time alignment. Then first you need to think for room acoustics to combat reflections or/also fix the placement to get the linear frequency response and then time if yoare crazy enough to measure and calculate soundwave propagation times xD
Are you suggesting that higher pitched tones travel faster than lower tones, and therefore there are two different speeds of sound?
@@perriergrey i am not suggesting nothing google it.
@@mariuszgonczewski5865 v=fλ, M8.
you guys need a tripod lol
Buy them one and stop crying 😂🤡
Your camera is making me dizzy
Cant trust anyone who choose a ”studio” with a slapback delay in the room. Standing waves will love that environment.
And that measurment is insanely bad.
If you have that problems in the beginning. Dont even consider a subwoofer.
Or conjugate on a 4th grade level....
You silly subwoofer people need a brain wipe & complete re-education...............
Here's one to ponder and as you do, try & think of all the subwoofer placement theories. Ready? I'll quote myself. "If you can hear it, then there's a stereo image".
Reggae, Funk & Brass 🔈🔉🔊
So why do they put the center channel in the center?
You could have made the video longer if you'd have repeated yourself 7 times instead of only 6 times.
😂
How not to talk about it .I fell asleep.
🤡 too poor to afford it
You talked for 20 mins ?
🤡
Too much talk and no plan ??
Modern day receivers can calibrate speaker distances, sound waves and phases.. dude this is a long drawn out video for subwoofer placement.. this is not rocket science. Omg.. video is too long for no reason
You talk way too much... get to the point
If a decent, capable pair of speakers were purchased in the first place, there would be no need for subwoofers!!!! It seems the current fashion to fill rooms with as many speakers as possible, which is a foolish approach because it just causes more problems.
Ive got 2 speakers in my room and I'm willing to wager that my system sounds and performs better than 95% of the hifi systems owned by people watching these types of video. Id also bet it sounds better than 99.9% of home cinema systems.
Subwoofers are for correcting mistakes already made.