The biggest shocker for them is if there’s a recall is gonna be finding out how many pickups in that age range have no emission systems on them at all 💀😂
I think anyone who truly thinks this through, understands that those model year ram trucks with the Cummins just became a lot more valuable, as long as you do NOT have the recall performed. They run fine, and people who live in states without emissions testing will love them.
@@matthewmenteer5673 Again, without anyone testing it, and with something called the 4th and 5th amendment, an owner can easily just drive the truck and not care. You don't HAVE to take vehicles in for recalls. If it runs perfectly fine, an informed owner won't care, and once they find out the trucks that have had the recall done are now way down on power, the "non-recalled" trucks will become way more valuable.
@@matthewmenteer5673feds only have control of new vehicles. It’s up to state and local municipalities to enforce regular inspections and tailpipe testing. Many states do not care so there is no way to get caught unless youre like running a shop doing deletes or selling kits. If I was running a ranch in somewhere like Montana or Wyoming I’d definitely pay extra for a non recall performed truck.
Yeah. I have a 2018 ram 2500. I have the recall letter. I’m not going to get my truck checked or updated. It runs just fine and with the banks intake horn and I don’t have any issues with the emissions.
If they were/are truly worried about emissions, DEF wouldn’t come in a disposable plastic jug with a plastic seal with a plastic funnel in a print cardboard box… all of which are manufactured for one-time use before being sent to a landfill or an incinerator that requires massive amounts of fuel.
Not to mention the extra fuel used during regens, extreme heat, and lower mpgs with the extra emissions. What about the natural resources used to produce everything from def to the dpf. It’s just big government ensuring that they stay that way
Bahahahahahah Think of it, the hundreds behind bars for that Giant Orange Lard Ass BIG LIE. How about the millions of Suckers that donated their hard earned money to STOP THE STEAL? Just can't make this shit up. @@SSinister_Grin
I live in California and I have a close friend who had one of the diesel gate VW’s, they didn’t force him to do anything with it. So he didn’t turn it in and he still drives it every day. No updates or anything he’s still very happy with it.
I didn't have one of the newer VW diesels but did have an 81 Rabbit with and extra 12 gallon tank and that car would get 50 mpgs all day long and would go over 1200 miles between fill-ups...Wish I still had it. Diesel gets a bad rap but for people who know about engines diesel is the way to go...More power and fuel economy plus most seem to way out last gas engines...
There is no such thing as clean emissions. Basically RAM allowed their trucks to pollute more than the EPA's acceptable pollution rate. All vehicles still pollute regardless of emission systems. The manufacturers just have to reduce the pollution to the acceptable rate and or parameters laid out by the EPA. For example no more than 600 kilograms of CO2 or NOX is released into the atmosphere per said mile or distance. The OEM'S are finding it impossible to meet the targets set by the EPA. The government is making it seem as if the people in their personal vehicles are the entire problem to the "environment crisis". There's a lot of other sectors that are not regulated. Aviation, marine, military, railroad. on and on.
How old are you? I ask because I remember a time when diesels spewed tons of black smoke normally and not rolling coal. Old Mercedes diesels would have taillights covered in soot. Gas was no better because you could smell the emissions when you were stuck in traffic. Smog so bad it created a haze in the air like fog. Now the tailpipe of a diesel is spotless and has 0 smoke even at full throttle. You could put your nose right on the tailpipe of any car and not smell a thing. All engines pollute, yes, but it could be far worse without emissions equipment. Clean air is taken for granted.
@@khakiswag i'm not going to argue with this, I do want clean air. The problem is the EPA talks out of both sides of there mouth, clean air credits that consist of ridiculous unexplainable calculations of wind solar fossil fuel combinations. When its considered good or clean they sell the credit. The whole thing is absolute corruption to its core
@@khakiswagyes, but even the new diesel is obnoxious. The emissions they spew out is horrible. Hate being stuck in traffic next to one. Pollution and that annoy clank clank.
Has anyone done the math on emissions controls. For example, my former passat got 45+ mpg, then we had to have the emissions "upgrade" and it dropped between 5 and 10 mpg. So for the miniscule amount of extra pollution is it made up for in the drop in mpg? Or is it actually polluting more due to using more fuel per mile? A non-emissions diesel gets incredibly more mpg. So...... is it worth it?
Playing devil's advocate. The purpose of the DFP is to reduce diesel particulate, which is actually harmful to humans on a very serious level. It's not only about the environment. Diesel particulate is PM2.5 which is very very tiny and causes a host of issues in people. Cancer, premature birth, exacerbated chronic heart and lung disease, including asthma, increased respiratory symptoms, and decreased lung function in children. As much as everyone bitches about the EPA implementing these things, it's kind of a necessity for how awful Diesel actually is to breathe. It's the same thing as being against leaded fuel, which caused heart disease, cancer, stroke, and brain damage, most prominently in children. I don't see anyone rallying around bringing back leaded fuel. Also, the EPA shouldn't be completely to blame. Ford, Dodge and Chevy needs to be blamed for their awfully implemented engineering for these systems. And they definitely profit from these intentionally faulty systems.
these days it's not about how *much* diesel is burned but rather *how* it is burned, i.e. the temperature at which the combustions occur. ever since there's been the conflict between particulate and NOx emissions. to reduce particulates in the exhaust you have to run at high temperatures, to reduce NOx you have to run at low temperatures 🤡 on a dpf equipped engine running low temps means clogging up the dpf quicker thus needing more regen cycles when additional fuel is injected to increase the temps (which is why fuel consumption is higher over all). without a def system (be careful, it's just the *e* instead of *p* but totally different system) you cannot reduce NOx emissions other than running at low temps. especially VW didn't want its diesel customers having to fill up anything other than diesel. that's why they firstly didn't install def systems, later installed def "light" systems where def was only added during regular service at the dealer which however reduced the available amount of def to neutralize NOx. ultimately they ended up installing a filler hose for def (= adblue) next to the diesel filler hose. should have done this in the first place and there wouldn't have been a diesel gate. just to be clear: def is a very sensitive system where a lot can go wrong, especially in colder environments. added def from these silly plastic containers is nothing but stupid.
Nope - CAT was and is meeting the new requirements before they ever came into effect. They stopped building truck engines because the OEM's said they wanted the engines cheaper, and CAT refused to sell them at a lower cost. That's why CAT bought into International to release their "own" CAT truck (the failure of which was a WHOLE nother story!)
@@GonecheeninCat knew all these emission systems would compromise the reliability and efficiency of their engines, and the regulations would just get tighter with time. That’s why they got out. Just look at Cummins and Detroit. The 60 series, N14 and big cam are all legendary engines not like the crap they are putting out today like Dd13/15 and isx.
@@abmtz8537 Your half right- CAT did know that, which is why they designed the AARD head system to comply with the coming T4 emissions initially instead of going with the much easier EGR like Cummins. But that's not why they stopped selling On Highway Truck engines to OEM manufacturers. FYI: our equipment has to meet those same emissions standards (granted at a later timeline) AND we can/do supply full Teir 4 Final/ULB replacement engines with CEM modules/aftertreatment for highly regulated areas like California and certain major cities.
I’m NEVER taking my truck to the dealer now …. Not after hearing this. Go in for an oil change and they will go behind your back and mess your truck up . Dealers are off limits at this point
That happened to me back in 2006. I took my 2004 sick liter F250 in for an oil leak, and they put a new flash in it, without my knowlege or permission, that could not be undone. They didn’t even tell me they did it. My fuel mileage went down from 19mpg to 16mpg. After three tanks at the lower range, i went back to them and said my mileage has dropped 3 mpg since you fixed my oil leak. They said oh yeah, that’s normal with the new tune we put in. I told them to take it back out. I want my 19mpg back. They said the EPA prohibits ever going back on a software update. And I am stuck with it. I traded the truck for a 2006 Cummins. Best trade I ever made.
@@craigg4246 You buy a gadget that allows you to copy your current ecu coding, and let them do the update, and rewrite your old tune to the ECU once you're back home.
You should dyno your Ram now and test its emissions and do some performance tests with a full load and towing and then repeat after the inevitable recall.
What's really stupid is that some states only require the emissions tests for certain counties that meet a population threshold. The county next to where I live doesn't require an emissions test. It's all about money and power over the citizens. They don't give one shit about the climate, the epa needs to seriously reigned in if not outright abolished.
@@kennethboyer2338 they definitely don't give a shit about the climate, it's all supposedly for local air quality. If they were prioritizing climate over local air quality, they would not be doing what they are to diesels. Diesels create less CO2 due to their inherently fuel efficient operation. We're basically trading off tiny fractions of a single gram of NOx (air quality concern) while adding several whole grams of CO2 (climate change concern) because these emissions systems make diesels less fuel efficient.
@dzelpwr Their getting ready to attack gas engines too I saw an article where the EPA is considering adding a gas particulate filter to all gas engines to reduce CO2
The resale value of "unfixed" trucks will go up, while "fixed" trucks will decline. People who actually know a thing or two about diesels know this modern emissions equipment only hurts your performance, fuel economy, and reliability
Not exactly. Scr and dpf r all in the exhaust. Have nothing to do with the engine. I would rather have an scr truck with very little egr vs what we had before with a shit ton of egr.
@@TheDesertdawg1depends on the state. Some states, like mine, don't have inspections or emissions testing. I can register just about anything in Tennessee, running or not. That's how you see trucks rolling coal - they don't pass emissions in states with actual emissions testing, but in ones without it, they're fair game. It's only a matter of time before emissions testing is required in all states, of course, but for the time being, this is how it is.
Problem is... is this what sold you to purchase the truck. Afterwards lacking power and added amounts of down time and expense of repairs brought forth to the consumer. Crazy if you ask me
@@upshifter5316weakling? Lol its got the best torque and HP curve by far, Fords numbers are inflated and duramaxes have small peaks. Talking stock, dont let manufacturers fool you. And when you talk tuned and deleted cummins comes on top even more
If like VW, your mileage and performance is going to suck. It has nothing to do with the "environment", it has everything to do with oil company profits.
The EPA ever since the advent of emissions on diesels have been killing it. I work in mass transit and by far we experience more emission related issues then any thing else with the engines.
Death by 1000 cuts. I'm really tired of this commie bs. If they cared about the environment they'd be pressuring ocean vessels into running clean diesel instead of the bunker fuel they currently use...look up bunker fuel and you'll realize that these people don't give a damn about the environment.
I remember my last pre-emissions truck. 06 Freightliner with a Cat engine. Got way better fuel econ and was way more reliable than the 2013 cummins truck that replaced it.
I would say 85% of ram diesels that are 10 years old especially up here in Canada have been 100% deleted to get away from the horrible emissions limp mode and check engine lights.
The OEMs are sprinting away from the parts on these trucks as well. You can delete or you can dump the truck and get hosed at the dealership for a new truck that is twice as much.
I would like to see 85% of the 10 year old Rams that are still on the road. Canadian road salt usage eats ram bodies pretty quick. 1 million mile motor(haha) in a 100 thousand mile truck. The laughable part is the number of Cummins 5.9/6.7/8.3/8.9s that actually make a million is so low. I drive motorcoach and NOT ONE Cummins X12 makes it to 800,000km(500,000 miles) without a rebuild. But the Volvo/Cat/Detriots all go to 1.2 million before rebuilding, unless something goes wrong. There was one that had to be rebuilt at 480,000km last month, these buses are brought in and inspected every 5k/12k km, oil changes are every 48k km(very early for the MPG these engines get). Too many fall into the BS line about Cummins "reliability" same as the idiots that blindly say Honda/Toyota are the most reliable.
I lived through the diesel fix on my 3.0 L TDI and although the cold start power is down slightly, once warmed up, it runs at full power just like it did pre-“fix”. I assume the same thing will be true with these Ram motors.
In Ca they wont issue a renewal if you don't get emission recall done. You have a grace periodon getting it done but eventually forced to if you want to keep it registered here.
I already had a recall letter sent to me for my 2018 ram 2500 6.7. And he letter says that the EPA is recalling these vehicles and that my engine needs to be “reprogrammed.”
around the similar/concurrent timeline so i do not think VW engineers went to Cummins. These are two separate events just that Cummins was caught all these years later
Oh believe me...they pay...they enjoy the worlds smoggiest conditions on this planet. It's so bad at times that their people have to stay indoors when the smog gets so bad.
My EGR failed at 39,000 miles. It cost me $3300 to replace it and it failed again at 52,000 miles. The dealer never would acknowledge that it was the emissions causing these failures. Can you blame anyone for wanting their truck to simply run correctly without failing constantly and costing so much to fix them.
Here's what's funny. I work at Cummins. Started at the plant that builds the 6.7 but have since moved on to other plants. Got an email from the CEO Friday about this issue. The email stated this issue only went back as far as 2019 and also went on to say they haven't been given any evidence of wrong doing yet and did also say it wouldn't hurt Cummins financially. CEO also stated they recalled 1 million so far and that the total cost would be just over $2 Billion between the recalls and any fines.
I've read a few articles about this, and while they're all short on specifics, I noticed that most of them say 'many' or 'most' trucks, not 'all' Cummins-powered trucks. Which makes me wonder if this recall will be limited to the HO or maybe non-HO Cummins engines. Curious to see what new info comes out in the coming weeks and months.
I have an 11 month old ram 3500 with the HO diesel. It has about 3600 miles and is only used to tow my 5th wheel RV. If they offer a buy back program for something close to sticker price, I would go that route. With the recent collapse in the HD truck market, things aren't looking good on residual value. Love the truck, but if they plan to de-tune it, I would likely let it go.
I went through the Audi Recall and fix. I still have the Q5 with 3.0 TDI and it did lose mileage and knocked after the recall adjustment. I started using a Diesel additive (Stanadyne) and everything dramatically improved to the performance it had before the changes.
the engine that delivers food, powers emergency vehicles and lasts decades. the government isn't at war with emissions, they are at war with the people of their own country.
Ford has to be doing something with the high output numbers they are producing they have the same displacement Cummins puts down 1075 lb-ft in the 3500 Ford f350 puts down 1050 lb-ft. t. if Ram is cheating to produce numbers like that, Ford must be too. Normally, a V8 would produce more emissions than a 6 cylinder.
Just got a recall notice in the mail for my 2017 Ram 2500 (Emissions Recall 67A "FCA US LLC, has determined that certain 2017 Ram 2500 trucks equipped with a 6.7L Cummins Turbo Diesel engine requires upgraded emissions control software according to Federal and California regulations/standards."). My truck is emissions-intact and stock. I have had no issues with my truck. I'm not running an aftermarket tune or any aftermarket performance accessories except a K&N filter. I do not plan on taking my truck to the dealer for this recall. Ever. The EPA can pound salt. They are a corrupt entity that has not operated within their federal mandate as far as I'm concerned. The only thing that should matter when it comes to emissions on a vehicle is what comes out of the tailpipe - regardless of what modifications, repairs, software, etc. the vehicle has. There are so many variables that can affect emissions output that the only accurate way to determine if a vehicle complies with the standard for it's year of manufacture is to run it through an IM240 test (or whatever current testing procedure the EPA uses, if not the IM240). Once it leaves the factory and gets miles put on it, it may never again reach the "Standard" that was required when manufactured - stuff wears over time and eventually it will not meet the standard, even if there is no CEL or other issues. I'm all for clean air and water, but going after an OEM because they designed their software to meet the EPA's (arbitrary, mind you) standards during the certification testing process is stupid. It met the standard when tested for certification, didn't it? So long as the OEM (Cummins in this case) didn't modify the calibration AFTER CERTIFICATION in a way that negatively affects emissions to the point where it FAILS RECERTIFICATION, then I see nothing wrong here.
Serious question, has anyone tailpipe tested a stock diesel vs a deleted diesel with a good tune (no rolling coal tunes)? In the late 70s we had 73 454 truck, we changed the cam, intake, headers and improved mpg greatly, curious what the result would be today, usually an engine tuned to be efficient has greater performance and less emissions in my mind 🤔
Yep and it meets emission requirements and runs so much better doesn’t roll coal.LBF/ Smokey tunes are a waste of fuel LBF tunes are used for racing to get the turbo to spool quicker on take off it adds zero power on the top end
You guys are getting too caught up on the emissions you can see. The epa is going after ALL of them, especially NoX. It doesn’t matter how visibly clean the tune is, except that it draws unnecessary attention, these trucks won’t meet current requirements without the egr, SCR/DEF and DPF. As far as the 73 454 anecdote, just what emissions controls were on that, pcv? Maybe an egr and a vapor canister? I think that’s about all there was on my 76 scout. Most of the trucks I’ve worked on from that era didn’t have much left other than the pcv & maybe a vapor canister.
With diesels, generally tuning it so that particulates and hydrocarbons are low and thermal efficiency is high causes engine-out NOx to spike because of the high peak cylinder temperature plus lean conditions. NOx isn't visible (although you can smell it - nasty). NOx is what they're being busted for.
I wonder how this will effect transit agencies around the country not to mention all the public, state and federal agencies, ambulance, fire trucks, power companies, trucking companies, tractors on farms, boats/marine, generators... Cummins powers way more than just consumer level vehicles!
Many of those engines are a different platform with completely different ecm & tuning. It’s certainly possible they were also working some software magic on those platforms, too. I suspect this is a result of the power wars with ford & gm combined with trying to contain & reign in warranty issues with Ram. Ram already sued Cummins back in ‘15 or ‘16 for emissions warranty issues ($60mil)
I just paid off my 2022 3500 and plan on keeping it. I think it’s a bit premature to say the Cummins will run as poorly as the Ecodiesel did and panic sell assuming that. We’ll just see where the chips fall. I also have a difficult time believing the emissions defeating tech used by Cummins was completely unknown to the Ram.
Really makes no sense when there’s 10 millions of the military equipment 10 million millions of excavator equipment not counting dump trucks not counting semi
The EcoDiesel had a recall on the DPF, EGR, and the engine software. Initially the turbo lag was miserable. By the third update it seems to run OK. There is still an unresolved recall on the high pressure fuel pump that can destroy the fuel system if it fails.
They have been rolling the fuel pump recall for several months now in relatively small VIN ranges because the supply of pumps is low. If it hasn’t failed you wait, if your pump fails you get to cut in the line before your vin range.
Not a chance I sell my 6.7 deleted nor will I fix it! Since CO chooses to follow suit as Cali I will hold out as long as I can until my county also follows suit like the big city. When that happens, I go register in WY or other state where there are no emissions.
You had better move to WY, then. Because if you get cited for having out of state plates, while residing in CO, you will pay more than fixing your truck.
@@johncampbell3979 I appreciate your feedback but you are incorrect. Knowing the law very well as I have enforced it for 2 decades, there are ways around it. I am not saying break the law per se but what I am saying is Gov't is wrong here so if you can find loop hole then hell take advantage of it. It is worth the risk. The EPA and Gov't regs will cost you more over long run ruining fuel efficiency and longevity of your engine because some policy makers probably got coaled when they were riding their road bike by some hick or kid that thought it was funny. Which ruined it for everyone. The Fine is less than $100. Besides all you have to do is show you 1 of 3 things to be in the clear. 1) Have gainful employment in that other state (ie since no state tax actually beneficial and have virtual business) 2) you have property with mailing address (ie POB) or 3) best of all simply state you reside in that state more than 50% of the time. Again being in career field I know no officer who is going to open up investigation for employment records and property ownership in another state for minor non-moving violation. Besides the burden of proof is on the officer to prove not on you even if you go before judge. Besides all of that... it isn't a primary offense to have out of state plates. Meaning officer has to have a moving violation to stop you. I like my chances.
That issue may not just involve Ram trucks, some motorhomes also use the Cummins 6.7. I can see ford and gm now suddenly fabricating emergency recalls due to some made up issue so they can reprogram their engines.
This could be a problem if they reduce the towing capability/power, because I use every bit on my ‘19 2500 Crew/LB for my Business. It’s the entire reason I bought the truck.
Nah, even in that case I'd keep it (by force if necessary). They don't need those things to create or maintain, you do. Like you said, you have a job to do.
I still would rather have diesel over electric any day of the week. Now , I hate those guys that love rolling coal , they make it hard for those of us that use our trucks responsibly.
As someone who lives in a state that has no emissions standards this infuriates me because I genuinely fear the government is gonna try to enforce more and more strict emissions standards
I helped a friend get a Eco diesel with friends and family program. He loved his little diesel. Put 90000 on it in about 2-1/2 years. It ran flawless. He opted to take the FCA settlement and required recall. The egr melted out of the intake within 2 weeks. The waranteed it, It melted thru again within a couple weeks. Then it was at the shop 4 more times in four weeks. 6 times total in 10 weeks. His once flawless 19mpg all day long little sewing machine became a P.O.S. He traded it in. He said I can't sell it out right when I know its doing this.
So - with the vehicles you have that are affected, will you run performance tests before and after the imminent recall? I am very curious. I also wonder, how was the problem caught? Isn't regular smog testing required for big diesel trucks? That suggests that a Volkswagen type device was implemented that detected when it was being tested.
No check engine light, visual inspection, smoke check. I live in California, have three diesels, LB7, LLY and LBZ. Not much to the check, no tailpipe test.
I just hope this doesn’t messes up the diesel ownership of GM and Ford vehicles further than it is messed up already. Unfortunately , I think it will. Just by focusing a giant light ray on the diesel trucks it will invite further legislation and scrutiny. Not good.
@@martinandersson5982lmao, batteries. Have you seen how damaging to the environment mining all the raw materials to make those batteries causes. Go crawl back in your hole 🤡
I used to own one of the Jetta TDI vehicles affected by the programming issue. I tell you what that thing was a rocket. Incredible performance and got 54 mpg with the AC on. Shame our government regulates all the fun out of cars. I remember the last time it happened. Almost killed the V8 in the late 70's and early 80's.
Something to keep in mind is it's hard to get these vehicle to run right on DEF fluid. This is why Subaru won't bring their diesel over here. This is why so many do the DEF delete.
I was watching a video the other day in Australia where a guy was at an EV charging site, and a diesel generator ran 24/7 365 with next to no cars charging per day. This wasn't some little 3000 watt generator, it was a huge one with what I would assume was a 4 cylinder diesel.
Generally, when there is a diesel engine next to an EV charging station, it's for back-up power in the event that grid power goes down, so that EV drivers can still get to where they're going. In Australia, it's conceivable that there are some remote places with no grid power available which would necessitate something like what you describe, but they would be very much the exception. Australia is a sunny place ... a bunch of solar panels and a honkin' big battery make a lot more sense in that situation. I suspect that reality isn't what you were led to believe.
@@bikeaddictbp Generally means generally, not all the time. It was in a remote area away from the grid, but it just serves to illustrate that EVs don't always make sense. Most electric charging stations in the US are fed by coal fired plants, not saying that is bad though. My friend was an engineer and said that because of the scrubbers and emission controls, the air coming out of coal fired energy plant was cleaner than normal air. All that came out was steam. Give me a diesel engine over electric, for now anyways.
@@cragre28 That coal-fired generating station is pumping out plenty of CO2. It does not get scrubbed out. Coal usage for electrical generation is on the decline, and the province that I live in stopped it completely several years ago. Today, approx 58% nuclear, 25% hydro, 7 - 10% solar and wind, 7 - 10% natural gas. Australia has lots of solar generation, and more coming.
@@bikeaddictbp Considering my friend was an engineer who focused on power management for huge corporations, including some of the largest companies in the US, I trusted what he told me. If he were still alive I would ask him actual numbers, but he died 2 weeks ago at age 43 of an embolism.
I've got a 2019 ram 3500 with the standard output diesel. 120k miles on it. The tailpipe is cleaner than my 2023 jeep with a gas engine. The government needs to stop regulating diesel trucks this tight. Their emissions are cleaner by far than gas engines are, but no one is saying anything about gas. Electric heavy-duty trucks will not be viable anytime soon. Diesel makes the world run. Can't get rid of it.
Lets face it they don't want you to own one, so they'll just keep turning the screws until most people opt out. They'll continue to discourage bio-regenerative fuels and disregard the environmental impacts of the current grid and what it takes to produce the current gen lion batteries, just remember: fossil fuel bad, electric good.
Which government? US? EU? china? Australia? South Africa? Every country worth talking about has strong diesel engine emissions standards. The EU’s rules are stronger than the US.
@@stonepa I live in the US, so that's the government I'm referring to. Diesel emissions continue to get tighter and tighter every year here with huge penalties for non complying companies.
@stonepa Don’t bring facts into conversations on RUclips. You are causing error in the force field. Plus referencing non-US countries/organizations/entities/metrics you are truly confusing the faithful.
If it's just software and tuning. Get a tuner now don't install it until the truck gets an update. When you take your truck in to get reprogrammed it'll download that tune as stock and then you can tune it with whatever tune you bought. When you bring it in for inspection just put in the stock tune it'll pass and then re-tune it when you get back home.
There is a recall on it. The recall number is 67A I took my 2016 3500 to the dealer for my free safety inspection and they performed the recall which is a software update. I don't feel any difference in the truck right now but I haven't towed my 15k 5th wheel after the reflash so we'll see how it feels once spring hits and I start camping again.
The recall that was performed on my truck is 67A. I'm looking at the recall right now. It says 1 revision and has a date of Dec 2023. It states the engine control software must be updated as required by the EPA. Maybe it is an expansion on a previous recall but 67A is the recall #.
Bottom line is the EPA Will continue regulating and using the department of Justice as henchmen ... Might I remind you The EPA is making and enforcing decrees these are not laws. Laws can only be made and voted on in Congress through a constitutional process. The EPA will continue Until there are no fossil fuel powertrains left ... Because let's face it, The EPA will just continuously move the goal post to the point where no matter how much engineering you do it will never meet an acceptable standard.
Just drive yours , if you decide to let them flash it, I would do a few back to back detailed mpg runs , checking fuel mileage and DEF usage . The repeat when you get it back . If it were mine I would simply avoid taking it back to a dealership, they can’t flash it if it’s never there. Once the fix has been out you can decide if you want to proceed based on results from others.
I'm not opposed to clean air. However, these emission regulations are increasing rapidly and too fast for the consumer to keep up with... yes, the consumer. That's who ends paying for these systems. First at the time of purchase, and secondly when they fail, we have to pay for them to be replaced. So for most people who own and operate these trucks the question should be " do you want clean air, or do you want to put food on your table?" So at some point these regulations need to be checked to create time for the consumer to understand these complex systems. Give the market time to adjust properly for these expensive systems. Allow the consumer to not look over their shoulder for just trying to make a living. 1. So yes clean air... sure 2.Check the epa so they don't ruin this market completely... absolutely 3. Don't force consumers to purchase an overpriced cellphone on wheels, and allow for a fair market and see what the people want. 4. Stop our government from controlling consumers in the free market What's your thoughts?
There’s a new round of emissions reductions/regulations in the works right now. They’re expected to go into effect for model year ‘27 I think. From what I recall reading awhile back, they will definitely be more restrictive. They get progressively more restrictive through the years.
I agree. We need to stop EPA, they are nothing more than a tyrannical government group. Emissions have reduced the reliability of vehicles, small engines etc, nothing starts good or lasts anymore. We pollute more and have more waste because of EPA.
Just need someone to tell the EPA " you did a thing with diesel emissions... now chill out for a couple decades. Give the industry and consumers time to chew and swallow that $h!t sandwich you just served them!" Who is going to tell the EPA that for the American people!
I don't think you understand that fuel economy and emissions are only very loosely connected. Your suggestion makes no sense, sorry. Better fuel economy doesn't negate the need for emission controls
I know I drive a truck with def dpf, and 90% of the time the truck is broken down is because of the government juice. I'll personally never by a newer truck with all that junk. It's unreliable, it uses more fuel, it chokes the exhaust, and it's more expensive to maintain.
@@62guitarguy so your solution is let these companies do what they want on emissions...? We would be living in a city with heavy black smog.. no thanks.
I had the eco diesel. I almost had an accident pulling out of the parking lot after the update. It became scary to drive. The first time my wife rode in it after the update, she said I wouldn’t own it long. She was right.
the pedal delay on an ecodiesel is insane. When you press the pedal nothing happens for ~2 full seconds. You have to drive it kinda like a forklift where you rest your foot on the pedal to keep it "engaged" . It is "scary" pulling out into traffic when you press the gas and nothing happens. Some people mistake it as turbo lag but its in the electronics. @@JEDss454
It’s a damn shame when Cummins’ largest risk to remaining in business is the federal govt. Is the govt really representing the desires of the people!??? Not for this guy that’s for sure…And not the needs of the heavy truck industry either.
It’s all fine and dandy for you. But this will be a big hit for Ram. Fine and then possibly having to buy back trucks like VW had to, plus have to correct the issue. It all costs them a lot of money.
If I had one of these trucks, as long as it would still pass emissions I would just leave it alone & keep driving it. But if it wouldn't pass emissions I would sell it probably sooner than later. And I'm glad to hear you guys read the comments, that says a lot about you ,& the company, just another reason why you have such a great & successful channel. And I'm one of those guys that think that electric cars will eventually die out, as soon as they've been out long enough "10-15 years" & people start realizing just how dirty & inefficient they really are. Electricity just doesn't come out of thin air, it's made. And most is made from burning coal or Natural gas.
A number of states are requiring letters from the dealer certifying the fix was performed to renew registration, if you're in one of these states you won't have a choice.
It’s funny because we all seen the pictures and videos of brand new government spec vehicles rolling off the assembly line with nothing more then a muffler. It’s ok for them just not us.
I wonder what the effect would be if say half the people who pay income taxes all decided not to pay them for 6 months. Think they could still give away our money to fund proxy wars? If organized and done properly , no doubt the impact would be great enough to cripple the broken system of waste and abuse. Imagine being upset enough at government that people started a revolution based on tea. I think the argument can be made that they were more free before the Boston tea party than we are currently. We can hope a politician of the people will rise and can organize such an effort to return the US to freedom and prosperity. If not soon, it will become too much to overcome.
What makes me sad here is all the people that are afraid of their state government taking away their ability to drive their trucks if they don’t comply. You people seriously need to start getting involved before you have no rights left. I’m not even against having some level of air quality requirements, we wouldn’t even be in this situation if so many idiots didn’t think it was a good idea to make their trucks roll coal, then post videos all over the internet doing incredibly stupid stuff with their trucks.
Don't forget that those VW diesel engines were also getting around 40mpg before the recall. After the recall the fuel economy dropped to around high 20s to low 30s mpg. If I were you I would keep the truck and never take it to a dealer to get it "fixed" or neutered.
I'm curious why, with HD trucks, they don't give them fully electric drive trains, with a diesel engine generator? Like trains and ships. All the range of a ICE, all the power of a electric? I know Edison is starting to do it with semis. Im sure it would be doable in the HD class.
The generator still needs to comply with emission standards. I think you'll see Stellantis expand the use of the upcoming PHEV powertrain, which uses a Pentastar V6 as the range-extender. I suspect they're using the version of the Pentastar that's in the Pacifica van, which is re-tuned for efficiency. It's easier to make that comply with emission standards.
Price and weight are probably the biggest factors. HD trucks are all about payload and towing capacity. Start adding electric, diesel, probably small-medium battery, you could be looking at big $$$ + quite a bit of weight.
I had a Ram 2016 Eco-Diesel that I had purchased new. I had about 70,000 miles on it when it got the update. I did get $3,750 payment but it was not worth it. My mileage dropped tremendously! The truck got 32 mpg when it was new. After the update it got 22 mpg. The truck was very lethargic and was not responsive. It went from being one of my favorite trucks to least favorite. I traded it in on new 2021 Hemi. If I was you all I would not accept the update and keep the truck the way it was. In the letter I received from RAM they told me the update would not hurt my mileage or performance. That was a lie on both accounts! Don’t believe the letter they will send you telling you that it won’t change it.
@@Gonecheenin yeah I'm pretty certain it's limited to just CARB states at the moment, though even non-CARB states not getting the fix can still get you difficulties such as denial of warranty repairs until the fix is applied
@cpufreak101 Well, the wife and I's newest vehicle is 20 years old as of this coming New Years - so I'm still good there. LOL!!! I'm just hoping to find an "unfixed" TDI when I'm ready to upgrade from my 2004 that currently has 350,000 miles on it.
It’s amusing how some people are saying they won’t take it to the dealership for Reprogramming . Unfortunately if you read the letter from FCA you won’t be able to register your vehicle the next year until you comply
Would love them to look at the gas engines too. Claimed fuel economy vs actual. I can't get anywhere near the claimed fuel economy on my 5.7. Even on Cruise on a flat highway with no wind, no load, only 1 person in truck, I can only get 16 mpg. Engine has 33K miles and should still be able to hit close to the 21 MPG they claim on highway.
Look at the cycle they claim for the rating. It will either be a standardised or proprietary rating system. Here in Australia for example it's a fairly basic system using a machine similar to a dynamometer. It simulates an urban commute followed by a suburban drive, then a 90kmh / 55mph drive to simulate open road driving. The ratings all tend to be more economical than you can achieve on the real world consistently as there is no wind resistance component on the dynamometer, however as all cars sold here use the same test procedure it's a useful tool for comparisons between vehicles.
When Cummins came out with the ISX and ISM engine it would only pass emissions with factory installed injectors and that part was not available when the injectors went bad and had a superseded number that would cause engine to no longer be able to pass a test
I had an isx in a boat burning red fuel and used the truck injector because the boat injector puuuuuked fuel. It was a smoky nasty mess with the marine injector. 😂 Idk who they built that engine for but it was a messy machine out of the box.
It's painful to own a modern diesel with these emission systems. EGR, DPF, SCR, and DEF are just some of the things that are in place to keep emissions down, such as NOx, CO and particulates, while fuel consumption and CO2 emissions go up, and many of these systems gets clogged with sot after less than 100 000 miles and it costs thousands of dollars to fix and replace what people could have all saved if they did a delete while also saving fuel. I get that we need lower emissions but it's also expensive for the owner.
I had two VW diesels, the last one being 2006, last year before the regulations tightened. When it came time to replace that car, I wanted nothing to do with how complicated they had gotten (this was before dieselgate), thinking it was too complex for its own good. That proved to be the case ...
@@tacobell2104 Gas trucks suck for towing though, fine for grocery shopping I guess, which is what 95% of trucks in America are used for 98% of the time.
My 3.5 EcoBoost can tow a skid steer. How much towing capacity is needed? Your second sentence sums it up well. People use HD trucks as glorified passenger vehicles 95% of the time which is fine but if you don't want to pay for maintenance of emissions equipment, buy gasoline. Anytime discussion comes up about regulating how much a passenger vehicle is allowed to pollute brings out the uneducated from the trailer park about defunding the EPA. @@AgentSmith911
The obvious answer is…. get an “un-fixed” 6.7 asap, register it in a state (like Michigan) that doesn’t smog your truck, and never let the dealer lay a finger on it.
@@Gonecheeninwe bought a cheating Passat TDI right after the scandal hit, and we loved every minute of owning it. But the buyback was too good of an offer to refuse, so we waited til the final day of the turn-in window and took a healthy profit on it. (And then we bought another one.) TDI’s are great cars.
I bought a post VW lawsuit 2014 passat tdi with 60k miles for 6k in 2019. The things been running like a champ. It currently has 140k miles and still getting almost 40 mpg. Its the best car ive ever bought. Im hoping the prices drop like a rock on these things like they did with the VWs.
These diesel engine companies need to quit doing these out of court settlements and go to court and prove that the EPA regulations are based off of manufactured and manipulated research data. The 2001 emissions are good enough. I drove an open cockpit farm tractor for 2 decades that had no emission controls. Breathing that exhaust and field dust all day didn't effect my health any.
I’m an EcoDiesel owner who has had their truck updated with the “approved emissions modification” and honestly I haven’t seen any change in power or drivability. Maybe a 5% drop in fuel economy but that’s it. Hopefully for the Cummins owners it will be a similar experience.
I’ll be keeping my eye out for one of these RAM’s ! Hopefully our next President will get rid of a lot of this BS from the EPA. It’s destroying long term reliability and making vehicles cost a fortune
unnh guys the recall is already out.. It is 67A issued by FCA. I just got mine in the mail today 12/29/2023 It was emissions related pushed by the EPA. it is "D truck engine calibration".
I’ve come to the conclusion that the government does not want the public to have diesel vehicles that’s probably why it’s more expensive at the pump than regular gas.
What baffles me is Europe and many cities in South America, like Santiago de Chile, actually tax gasoline more than diesel. This makes diesel cheaper. Also, most of the cars on the road are diesel. The reason is that diesel vehicles are cleaner than gas. When tuned and operated correctly.
Diesel is more expensive at the pump because oil companies know that diesel runs the economy with trucks and trains. They know they can always have a high price for diesel because the cost is ALWAYS passed on to you and I, the consumer.
The biggest shocker for them is if there’s a recall is gonna be finding out how many pickups in that age range have no emission systems on them at all 💀😂
I was thinking the same thing.
Yeah..... If I get recalled for a defeat device that's been defeated again it's going to be interesting 😊
+1 Copy That...
In my area no emissions testing is required. I doubt 2 in 10 are still stock?
That’s exactly what I was thinking. Will the govt somehow make the recall mandatory?
Cummins didn't provide their Xmas 10% bonus to the Big Guy.
Considering this started in 2019...they obviously missed a few xmas cards.
joey burden has been taking bribes LONG before he was "installed" as pReSiDeNt. Fjb@Dusdaddy
Best comment ever!!!!
more money to the ukraine fund
😭@@LuciFeric137
I think anyone who truly thinks this through, understands that those model year ram trucks with the Cummins just became a lot more valuable, as long as you do NOT have the recall performed. They run fine, and people who live in states without emissions testing will love them.
Its federal, but sure. Just say it fell into a lake or something.
@@matthewmenteer5673 Again, without anyone testing it, and with something called the 4th and 5th amendment, an owner can easily just drive the truck and not care. You don't HAVE to take vehicles in for recalls. If it runs perfectly fine, an informed owner won't care, and once they find out the trucks that have had the recall done are now way down on power, the "non-recalled" trucks will become way more valuable.
@@matthewmenteer5673feds only have control of new vehicles. It’s up to state and local municipalities to enforce regular inspections and tailpipe testing. Many states do not care so there is no way to get caught unless youre like running a shop doing deletes or selling kits. If I was running a ranch in somewhere like Montana or Wyoming I’d definitely pay extra for a non recall performed truck.
@@Iamthestig42069 But you have Cali state of elites pushing everything to the limits on emissions….
@@Motorcycledad160Sure. But once you are notified, you are then liable.
Yeah. I have a 2018 ram 2500. I have the recall letter. I’m not going to get my truck checked or updated. It runs just fine and with the banks intake horn and I don’t have any issues with the emissions.
If they were/are truly worried about emissions, DEF wouldn’t come in a disposable plastic jug with a plastic seal with a plastic funnel in a print cardboard box… all of which are manufactured for one-time use before being sent to a landfill or an incinerator that requires massive amounts of fuel.
Not to mention the extra fuel used during regens, extreme heat, and lower mpgs with the extra emissions. What about the natural resources used to produce everything from def to the dpf. It’s just big government ensuring that they stay that way
@@kmonto1971 the problem lies with us as we just sit here and allow a small group of rich people dictate our lives and rob us through taxes
@@Cadian92nd yeah, but look what happened on January 6.... Innocently protesting will get you year's in prison.
Bahahahahahah Think of it, the hundreds behind bars for that Giant Orange Lard Ass BIG LIE. How about the millions of Suckers that donated their hard earned money to STOP THE STEAL? Just can't make this shit up. @@SSinister_Grin
@@DoRC In my opinion, it’s not necessary. Emissions equipment is the least necessary and least reliable part of every engine it’s connected to.
I live in California and I have a close friend who had one of the diesel gate VW’s, they didn’t force him to do anything with it. So he didn’t turn it in and he still drives it every day. No updates or anything he’s still very happy with it.
I remember driving 1 of those diesel VW golfs, that thing hauled aas, it took effert to drive it slow.
Absolutely love mine, 50mpg on long interstate trips running 80, 85 .... 37 mpg mixed driving
I didn't have one of the newer VW diesels but did have an 81 Rabbit with and extra 12 gallon tank and that car would get 50 mpgs all day long and would go over 1200 miles between fill-ups...Wish I still had it. Diesel gets a bad rap but for people who know about engines diesel is the way to go...More power and fuel economy plus most seem to way out last gas engines...
I wish I had had one of those, and I would have kept it.
That was dumb AF. They were paying way more than the cars were worth, he should have taken the buyback and bought a nicer car.
There is no such thing as clean emissions. Basically RAM allowed their trucks to pollute more than the EPA's acceptable pollution rate. All vehicles still pollute regardless of emission systems. The manufacturers just have to reduce the pollution to the acceptable rate and or parameters laid out by the EPA. For example no more than 600 kilograms of CO2 or NOX is released into the atmosphere per said mile or distance. The OEM'S are finding it impossible to meet the targets set by the EPA. The government is making it seem as if the people in their personal vehicles are the entire problem to the "environment crisis". There's a lot of other sectors that are not regulated. Aviation, marine, military, railroad. on and on.
The comment I was looking for, well written explanation👍
Its time citizens stand up and tell the epa to go F itself.
How old are you? I ask because I remember a time when diesels spewed tons of black smoke normally and not rolling coal. Old Mercedes diesels would have taillights covered in soot. Gas was no better because you could smell the emissions when you were stuck in traffic. Smog so bad it created a haze in the air like fog. Now the tailpipe of a diesel is spotless and has 0 smoke even at full throttle. You could put your nose right on the tailpipe of any car and not smell a thing. All engines pollute, yes, but it could be far worse without emissions equipment. Clean air is taken for granted.
@@khakiswag i'm not going to argue with this, I do want clean air. The problem is the EPA talks out of both sides of there mouth, clean air credits that consist of ridiculous unexplainable calculations of wind solar fossil fuel combinations. When its considered good or clean they sell the credit. The whole thing is absolute corruption to its core
@@khakiswagyes, but even the new diesel is obnoxious. The emissions they spew out is horrible. Hate being stuck in traffic next to one. Pollution and that annoy clank clank.
Has anyone done the math on emissions controls. For example, my former passat got 45+ mpg, then we had to have the emissions "upgrade" and it dropped between 5 and 10 mpg. So for the miniscule amount of extra pollution is it made up for in the drop in mpg? Or is it actually polluting more due to using more fuel per mile? A non-emissions diesel gets incredibly more mpg. So...... is it worth it?
😳🤯
burning 4 times as much fuel has to be cleaner! 🤣🤣
My passat diesel pulls off 48 on a delete, previously I was getting 40 on the "fixed" EPA tune. I agree that drop of mpg was huge
Playing devil's advocate.
The purpose of the DFP is to reduce diesel particulate, which is actually harmful to humans on a very serious level. It's not only about the environment. Diesel particulate is PM2.5 which is very very tiny and causes a host of issues in people. Cancer, premature birth, exacerbated chronic heart and lung disease, including asthma, increased respiratory symptoms, and decreased lung function in children. As much as everyone bitches about the EPA implementing these things, it's kind of a necessity for how awful Diesel actually is to breathe.
It's the same thing as being against leaded fuel, which caused heart disease, cancer, stroke, and brain damage, most prominently in children. I don't see anyone rallying around bringing back leaded fuel.
Also, the EPA shouldn't be completely to blame. Ford, Dodge and Chevy needs to be blamed for their awfully implemented engineering for these systems. And they definitely profit from these intentionally faulty systems.
these days it's not about how *much* diesel is burned but rather *how* it is burned, i.e. the temperature at which the combustions occur. ever since there's been the conflict between particulate and NOx emissions. to reduce particulates in the exhaust you have to run at high temperatures, to reduce NOx you have to run at low temperatures 🤡 on a dpf equipped engine running low temps means clogging up the dpf quicker thus needing more regen cycles when additional fuel is injected to increase the temps (which is why fuel consumption is higher over all). without a def system (be careful, it's just the *e* instead of *p* but totally different system) you cannot reduce NOx emissions other than running at low temps. especially VW didn't want its diesel customers having to fill up anything other than diesel. that's why they firstly didn't install def systems, later installed def "light" systems where def was only added during regular service at the dealer which however reduced the available amount of def to neutralize NOx. ultimately they ended up installing a filler hose for def (= adblue) next to the diesel filler hose. should have done this in the first place and there wouldn't have been a diesel gate. just to be clear: def is a very sensitive system where a lot can go wrong, especially in colder environments. added def from these silly plastic containers is nothing but stupid.
This is the reason Caterpillar got out of the game back in 2010.
Sure is!
2010 is when the more strict emission requirements went into effect.
Nope - CAT was and is meeting the new requirements before they ever came into effect. They stopped building truck engines because the OEM's said they wanted the engines cheaper, and CAT refused to sell them at a lower cost.
That's why CAT bought into International to release their "own" CAT truck (the failure of which was a WHOLE nother story!)
@@GonecheeninCat knew all these emission systems would compromise the reliability and efficiency of their engines, and the regulations would just get tighter with time. That’s why they got out. Just look at Cummins and Detroit. The 60 series, N14 and big cam are all legendary engines not like the crap they are putting out today like Dd13/15 and isx.
@@abmtz8537
Your half right- CAT did know that, which is why they designed the AARD head system to comply with the coming T4 emissions initially instead of going with the much easier EGR like Cummins.
But that's not why they stopped selling On Highway Truck engines to OEM manufacturers.
FYI: our equipment has to meet those same emissions standards (granted at a later timeline) AND we can/do supply full Teir 4 Final/ULB replacement engines with CEM modules/aftertreatment for highly regulated areas like California and certain major cities.
I’m NEVER taking my truck to the dealer now …. Not after hearing this. Go in for an oil change and they will go behind your back and mess your truck up . Dealers are off limits at this point
If your truck is newer they can do over the air updates unless you've done something to eliminate that.
That happened to me back in 2006. I took my 2004 sick liter F250 in for an oil leak, and they put a new flash in it, without my knowlege or permission, that could not be undone. They didn’t even tell me they did it. My fuel mileage went down from 19mpg to 16mpg. After three tanks at the lower range, i went back to them and said my mileage has dropped 3 mpg since you fixed my oil leak. They said oh yeah, that’s normal with the new tune we put in. I told them to take it back out. I want my 19mpg back. They said the EPA prohibits ever going back on a software update. And I am stuck with it. I traded the truck for a 2006 Cummins. Best trade I ever made.
@@craigg4246 You buy a gadget that allows you to copy your current ecu coding, and let them do the update, and rewrite your old tune to the ECU once you're back home.
Thx, good to know@@ng-ht1vx
@@ng-ht1vxYes like the tazer
You should dyno your Ram now and test its emissions and do some performance tests with a full load and towing and then repeat after the inevitable recall.
Why take it back for a recall? 😂
@@GoonyMclinuxPretty sure you don’t have a choice. That’s why. Unless you like driving around without a registration. ✌️
OP: That’s a great idea actually. Real numbers are always nice. ✌️
@@amb3cog you don't have to do emissions in some places.
@@jonathanb1987 I’m aware of that. That’s why I never even mentioned it. ✌️
I did emission testing for 30 years. In the EPA's eyes, anything could be veiwed as a "defeat device".
What's really stupid is that some states only require the emissions tests for certain counties that meet a population threshold. The county next to where I live doesn't require an emissions test. It's all about money and power over the citizens. They don't give one shit about the climate, the epa needs to seriously reigned in if not outright abolished.
It’s all for profit and the ability to squeeze as much money as possible out of the citizens. Emissions testing is a freaking joke.
@@kennethboyer2338 they definitely don't give a shit about the climate, it's all supposedly for local air quality.
If they were prioritizing climate over local air quality, they would not be doing what they are to diesels. Diesels create less CO2 due to their inherently fuel efficient operation.
We're basically trading off tiny fractions of a single gram of NOx (air quality concern) while adding several whole grams of CO2 (climate change concern) because these emissions systems make diesels less fuel efficient.
EPA is the ATF of vehicles
@dzelpwr Their getting ready to attack gas engines too I saw an article where the EPA is considering adding a gas particulate filter to all gas engines to reduce CO2
The resale value of "unfixed" trucks will go up, while "fixed" trucks will decline. People who actually know a thing or two about diesels know this modern emissions equipment only hurts your performance, fuel economy, and reliability
Well thats really changing really with just a trans tune the old trucks aren't nearly as powerful
The government won’t allow you to register or insure it without proof of the fix.
Not exactly. Scr and dpf r all in the exhaust. Have nothing to do with the engine. I would rather have an scr truck with very little egr vs what we had before with a shit ton of egr.
Value won’t go up when it can’t be registered, quite the opposite.
@@TheDesertdawg1depends on the state. Some states, like mine, don't have inspections or emissions testing. I can register just about anything in Tennessee, running or not. That's how you see trucks rolling coal - they don't pass emissions in states with actual emissions testing, but in ones without it, they're fair game. It's only a matter of time before emissions testing is required in all states, of course, but for the time being, this is how it is.
I would like to see you keep the truck to test and compare after they make it compliant
Problem is... is this what sold you to purchase the truck. Afterwards lacking power and added amounts of down time and expense of repairs brought forth to the consumer. Crazy if you ask me
Damn. Cummins was already the weakling of the options. Wouldn’t want to see it de tuned.
@@upshifter5316weakling? Lol its got the best torque and HP curve by far, Fords numbers are inflated and duramaxes have small peaks. Talking stock, dont let manufacturers fool you. And when you talk tuned and deleted cummins comes on top even more
If like VW, your mileage and performance is going to suck. It has nothing to do with the "environment", it has everything to do with oil company profits.
@@Berto-1117lmao. No.
The EPA ever since the advent of emissions on diesels have been killing it. I work in mass transit and by far we experience more emission related issues then any thing else with the engines.
Same here. Between aftertreatment CEL / MIL and hybrid faults it's a miracle any run.
Death by 1000 cuts.
I'm really tired of this commie bs.
If they cared about the environment they'd be pressuring ocean vessels into running clean diesel instead of the bunker fuel they currently use...look up bunker fuel and you'll realize that these people don't give a damn about the environment.
Reminder that ambulances and fire trucks are not exempt. But all US military vehicles are.
Nope, there’s an emergency vehicle exemption.
The epa is a scam the planet needs co2.
I remember my last pre-emissions truck. 06 Freightliner with a Cat engine.
Got way better fuel econ and was way more reliable than the 2013 cummins truck that replaced it.
And if milage was better, before all the Govt bullshit than they are more efficient . Wouldn't that mean burning cleaner ??
I would say 85% of ram diesels that are 10 years old especially up here in Canada have been 100% deleted to get away from the horrible emissions limp mode and check engine lights.
I don't think it takes 10 years. Once it's out of the warranty period everyone is deleting them.
The OEMs are sprinting away from the parts on these trucks as well. You can delete or you can dump the truck and get hosed at the dealership for a new truck that is twice as much.
I would like to see 85% of the 10 year old Rams that are still on the road. Canadian road salt usage eats ram bodies pretty quick. 1 million mile motor(haha) in a 100 thousand mile truck. The laughable part is the number of Cummins 5.9/6.7/8.3/8.9s that actually make a million is so low. I drive motorcoach and NOT ONE Cummins X12 makes it to 800,000km(500,000 miles) without a rebuild. But the Volvo/Cat/Detriots all go to 1.2 million before rebuilding, unless something goes wrong. There was one that had to be rebuilt at 480,000km last month, these buses are brought in and inspected every 5k/12k km, oil changes are every 48k km(very early for the MPG these engines get). Too many fall into the BS line about Cummins "reliability" same as the idiots that blindly say Honda/Toyota are the most reliable.
@@jnk26facts
No
No way I would bring my truck in for a recall to “fix” this problem.
Especially if I was using this vehicle for actual work.
This is a very good point. Yeah me either.
You could have a problem if you live in an area that does annual emissions testing.
I lived through the diesel fix on my 3.0 L TDI and although the cold start power is down slightly, once warmed up, it runs at full power just like it did pre-“fix”. I assume the same thing will be true with these Ram motors.
In Ca they wont issue a renewal if you don't get emission recall done. You have a grace periodon getting it done but eventually forced to if you want to keep it registered here.
You wont be able to register your truck based on the VIN number. They did this before.
Since you have one of the trucks you should do a video before and after the "modification" to fix the problem.
I already had a recall letter sent to me for my 2018 ram 2500 6.7. And he letter says that the EPA is recalling these vehicles and that my engine needs to be “reprogrammed.”
I'd definitely keep it. The government just raised the value of those trucks that don't get the recall "fix"
You can get some recalls fixed over the phone if you know the right extension to a dealership; the good ones will even give you free oil chance!
@@litoaykiuYou’re an idiot if you do that, EPA will find these shops and they will give out massive tickets.
The government won’t allow you to register or insure it without proof of the fix.
@@TheDesertdawg1 maybe in Cali. Depends on the state.
Not even close 😂😂😂
Now we know where those VW diesel engineers went next!
It was Bosch, not VW, at the center of that. Guess who supplies a lot of the parts for the Cummins? ;) Yup, Bosch.
bosch be bosching
@@joeyscleaninglady2877you just got bosched
around the similar/concurrent timeline so i do not think VW engineers went to Cummins. These are two separate events just that Cummins was caught all these years later
@@joeyscleaninglady2877like a Bosch
I wonder how many fines china pays for their emissions...
Underrated comment. Add India in there too
Oh believe me...they pay...they enjoy the worlds smoggiest conditions on this planet. It's so bad at times that their people have to stay indoors when the smog gets so bad.
ChiNa!!
What about ships and planes? This is bs
They just spray paint their ditches green 🍏
The government is trying to destroy Diesels. Diesels were one of the greatest inventions of all time.
Being a truck channel, you have to keep it and make videos about how it all works out. Keep us updated.
My EGR failed at 39,000 miles. It cost me $3300 to replace it and it failed again at 52,000 miles. The dealer never would acknowledge that it was the emissions causing these failures. Can you blame anyone for wanting their truck to simply run correctly without failing constantly and costing so much to fix them.
Yes - dyno the TFL truck immediately before and again immediately after the recall fixes, so we all know.
That's only like $1745.00 per truck that's a good deal for a delete. Lol
Don’t forget the 10 thousand dollar ticket PER truck. Enjoy getting screwed by the EPA.
They didnt delete any thing. Its out of spec and epa is WAY OVER REACTING. Just as govt does.
@@crazyhass84he knows. Its a joke
@@crazyhass84 diesel is a joke
@@angelgjr1999 we're all getting screwed by diesel pollution.
Here's what's funny. I work at Cummins. Started at the plant that builds the 6.7 but have since moved on to other plants. Got an email from the CEO Friday about this issue. The email stated this issue only went back as far as 2019 and also went on to say they haven't been given any evidence of wrong doing yet and did also say it wouldn't hurt Cummins financially. CEO also stated they recalled 1 million so far and that the total cost would be just over $2 Billion between the recalls and any fines.
Still waiting for the funny part?
@@russellindiana7000 That’s because you’re too stupid to see it.
What will be really funny is when the class action commences.
Then why did Cummins agree to pay already?
@@iblongshiathat was the deal reached with the regulators, not the owners
I've read a few articles about this, and while they're all short on specifics, I noticed that most of them say 'many' or 'most' trucks, not 'all' Cummins-powered trucks. Which makes me wonder if this recall will be limited to the HO or maybe non-HO Cummins engines. Curious to see what new info comes out in the coming weeks and months.
It's not limited to HO trucks. I know several 2500 owners who got the recall notice, all 4 th gen trucks.
Ram won’t drop Cummins. Can’t see it ever happening. You should keep yours and go through the process for content and visibility to other owners.
They would have access to FPT.
@@lamarzimmermanmennonitefar5269 what’s FTP?
Coming soon. 2025 Ram 3500 with 6.7 Powerstroke High Output.
@@sumerianbotfarmpowerstroke is made by ford lol
Agreed ram will never drop Cummins… these guys don’t know what they’re talking about
I have an 11 month old ram 3500 with the HO diesel. It has about 3600 miles and is only used to tow my 5th wheel RV. If they offer a buy back program for something close to sticker price, I would go that route. With the recent collapse in the HD truck market, things aren't looking good on residual value. Love the truck, but if they plan to de-tune it, I would likely let it go.
I went through the Audi Recall and fix. I still have the Q5 with 3.0 TDI and it did lose mileage and knocked after the recall adjustment. I started using a Diesel additive (Stanadyne) and everything dramatically improved to the performance it had before the changes.
Now you know why Cummins was able to meet the new standards without sacrificing reliability.
true
I’m just laughing with my 500hp 04 Cummins that passes emissions and doesn’t even have a catalytic converter
That because pre-2008 diesels are exempt. No EGR, DPF or DEF.
@@hibiki54 no shiet
@@hibiki54 *Laughs in IDI*
Should make those illegal
@@zigadabooga your idiotic opinions should be illegal
the engine that delivers food, powers emergency vehicles and lasts decades. the government isn't at war with emissions, they are at war with the people of their own country.
Thank you for getting this word out. So very true. I hope we all wake up before it’s too late.
😅 Most dramatic shit ever
You right on my friend!!!
Climate emergency? Nah, we just gonna keep our heads firmly in the sand here. Cos ‘merika!!!
@@shiftfocus1 You love being governed, don't you? Love being told what to do?
As Cummins is a world leader in diesel tech, it is unlikely that Ford and GM aren't doing the same thing in terms of cheat devices.
Sty tuned.
😲😲😬😬
Ford has to be doing something with the high output numbers they are producing they have the same displacement Cummins puts down 1075 lb-ft in the 3500 Ford f350 puts down 1050 lb-ft. t. if Ram is cheating to produce numbers like that, Ford must be too. Normally, a V8 would produce more emissions than a 6 cylinder.
Naw. The whole world wondered how Cummins was pulling this off without DEF, here’s a possible answer to that.
Ford has been doing a thing called technically-not-lying. The Powerstroke engines significantly debate themselves in first gear.
This is what I was thinking. Ford and GM being all "uh oh."
Just got a recall notice in the mail for my 2017 Ram 2500 (Emissions Recall 67A "FCA US LLC, has determined that certain 2017 Ram 2500 trucks equipped with a 6.7L Cummins Turbo Diesel engine requires upgraded emissions control software according to Federal and California regulations/standards."). My truck is emissions-intact and stock. I have had no issues with my truck. I'm not running an aftermarket tune or any aftermarket performance accessories except a K&N filter. I do not plan on taking my truck to the dealer for this recall. Ever. The EPA can pound salt. They are a corrupt entity that has not operated within their federal mandate as far as I'm concerned.
The only thing that should matter when it comes to emissions on a vehicle is what comes out of the tailpipe - regardless of what modifications, repairs, software, etc. the vehicle has. There are so many variables that can affect emissions output that the only accurate way to determine if a vehicle complies with the standard for it's year of manufacture is to run it through an IM240 test (or whatever current testing procedure the EPA uses, if not the IM240). Once it leaves the factory and gets miles put on it, it may never again reach the "Standard" that was required when manufactured - stuff wears over time and eventually it will not meet the standard, even if there is no CEL or other issues.
I'm all for clean air and water, but going after an OEM because they designed their software to meet the EPA's (arbitrary, mind you) standards during the certification testing process is stupid. It met the standard when tested for certification, didn't it? So long as the OEM (Cummins in this case) didn't modify the calibration AFTER CERTIFICATION in a way that negatively affects emissions to the point where it FAILS RECERTIFICATION, then I see nothing wrong here.
Serious question, has anyone tailpipe tested a stock diesel vs a deleted diesel with a good tune (no rolling coal tunes)? In the late 70s we had 73 454 truck, we changed the cam, intake, headers and improved mpg greatly, curious what the result would be today, usually an engine tuned to be efficient has greater performance and less emissions in my mind 🤔
Yep and it meets emission requirements and runs so much better doesn’t roll coal.LBF/ Smokey tunes are a waste of fuel LBF tunes are used for racing to get the turbo to spool quicker on take off it adds zero power on the top end
You guys are getting too caught up on the emissions you can see. The epa is going after ALL of them, especially NoX. It doesn’t matter how visibly clean the tune is, except that it draws unnecessary attention, these trucks won’t meet current requirements without the egr, SCR/DEF and DPF.
As far as the 73 454 anecdote, just what emissions controls were on that, pcv? Maybe an egr and a vapor canister? I think that’s about all there was on my 76 scout. Most of the trucks I’ve worked on from that era didn’t have much left other than the pcv & maybe a vapor canister.
With diesels, generally tuning it so that particulates and hydrocarbons are low and thermal efficiency is high causes engine-out NOx to spike because of the high peak cylinder temperature plus lean conditions. NOx isn't visible (although you can smell it - nasty). NOx is what they're being busted for.
NOx is also very related to acid rain and asthma
@jeffs2809 In 73 a truck would have not had any real emission controls..they first phased in 1/2 ton then finally larger trucks
I wonder how this will effect transit agencies around the country not to mention all the public, state and federal agencies, ambulance, fire trucks, power companies, trucking companies, tractors on farms, boats/marine, generators... Cummins powers way more than just consumer level vehicles!
Many of those engines are a different platform with completely different ecm & tuning. It’s certainly possible they were also working some software magic on those platforms, too. I suspect this is a result of the power wars with ford & gm combined with trying to contain & reign in warranty issues with Ram. Ram already sued Cummins back in ‘15 or ‘16 for emissions warranty issues ($60mil)
Its like sending the cattle down a shute. Pretty soon or one day no more diesel pickups. All electric with the breakdowns. I hope I'm wrong
The state and federal agencies already get engines that are not neutered with these emissions controls to begin with They KNOW they are junk
Govt diesel hd truck are not equipped with emissions equipment factory
Government Diesels are emissions exempt in a lot of cases, so they never had this issue to begin with.
I just paid off my 2022 3500 and plan on keeping it. I think it’s a bit premature to say the Cummins will run as poorly as the Ecodiesel did and panic sell assuming that. We’ll just see where the chips fall. I also have a difficult time believing the emissions defeating tech used by Cummins was completely unknown to the Ram.
i bet is more likely the emmisions defeating tech was from Ram, not Cummins....
I would almost bet RAM/ Stellantis R&D had a hand in Cummins resorting to the defeat devices.
Or was ram installing it since even the half ton truck has had issues.
Yeah kinda like Ford,Firestone and the expedition
It was the Explorer @@thejackofalltravels8267
Really makes no sense when there’s 10 millions of the military equipment 10 million millions of excavator equipment not counting dump trucks not counting semi
The EcoDiesel had a recall on the DPF, EGR, and the engine software. Initially the turbo lag was miserable. By the third update it seems to run OK. There is still an unresolved recall on the high pressure fuel pump that can destroy the fuel system if it fails.
@@conceptobject Mine still gets over 30 highway, 25 pulling a 5x8 enclosed trailer.
They have been rolling the fuel pump recall for several months now in relatively small VIN ranges because the supply of pumps is low. If it hasn’t failed you wait, if your pump fails you get to cut in the line before your vin range.
@@geoffreyc1027 I just received the notice for mine.
Not a chance I sell my 6.7 deleted nor will I fix it! Since CO chooses to follow suit as Cali I will hold out as long as I can until my county also follows suit like the big city. When that happens, I go register in WY or other state where there are no emissions.
You had better move to WY, then. Because if you get cited for having out of state plates, while residing in CO, you will pay more than fixing your truck.
@@johncampbell3979 I appreciate your feedback but you are incorrect. Knowing the law very well as I have enforced it for 2 decades, there are ways around it. I am not saying break the law per se but what I am saying is Gov't is wrong here so if you can find loop hole then hell take advantage of it. It is worth the risk. The EPA and Gov't regs will cost you more over long run ruining fuel efficiency and longevity of your engine because some policy makers probably got coaled when they were riding their road bike by some hick or kid that thought it was funny. Which ruined it for everyone.
The Fine is less than $100. Besides all you have to do is show you 1 of 3 things to be in the clear. 1) Have gainful employment in that other state (ie since no state tax actually beneficial and have virtual business) 2) you have property with mailing address (ie POB) or 3) best of all simply state you reside in that state more than 50% of the time. Again being in career field I know no officer who is going to open up investigation for employment records and property ownership in another state for minor non-moving violation. Besides the burden of proof is on the officer to prove not on you even if you go before judge.
Besides all of that... it isn't a primary offense to have out of state plates. Meaning officer has to have a moving violation to stop you. I like my chances.
That issue may not just involve Ram trucks, some motorhomes also use the Cummins 6.7. I can see ford and gm now suddenly fabricating emergency recalls due to some made up issue so they can reprogram their engines.
and some commercial vehicles
@@ColJonSquall1My international semi truck has a Cummins. It’ll be interesting to see what’ll happen.
If Ram was tested for then you can put money down that Ford and GM were tested also. But only one was caught cheating.
@@ColJonSquall1Correction, A LOT of commercial vehicles including school buses.
Different emission standards that’s why it’s 2500-3500 , 250-350
This could be a problem if they reduce the towing capability/power, because I use every bit on my ‘19 2500 Crew/LB for my Business. It’s the entire reason I bought the truck.
When the Elites of the world turn in their private jets, yachts and super cars I’ll turn in my Diesel truck. But until then I have a job to do.
And they won't turn in any of those things to pay the fine, but you can bet money they will raise the price on every diesel to get the money back....
But but but… John Horse Face Kerry said his work is too important to give up his jet or first class tickets.
Nah, even in that case I'd keep it (by force if necessary). They don't need those things to create or maintain, you do. Like you said, you have a job to do.
@@b.strong9347 Who gives a shit about the politicians, they still grovel at the feet of the rich business owners.
Aaaaa, it's the Elites, I knew it....
I still would rather have diesel over electric any day of the week. Now , I hate those guys that love rolling coal , they make it hard for those of us that use our trucks responsibly.
Rolling coal has nothing to do with the issue at hand.
@@jimjones-pz1tt it most certainly does . You just have to have a thought process to get it .
Coal rolling has absolutely zero bearing on this whatsoever. The EPA doesn't know what that even means.
As someone who lives in a state that has no emissions standards this infuriates me because I genuinely fear the government is gonna try to enforce more and more strict emissions standards
Bummer
People like you live in fear. An education would go a long way to help that.
@@user-mh5qg5jb7d .. +1 .. Copy That.
@@user-mh5qg5jb7d fear of what and what could you possibly educate me on
@@user-mh5qg5jb7dsuperior education makes you better than others
I helped a friend get a Eco diesel with friends and family program.
He loved his little diesel. Put 90000 on it in about 2-1/2 years. It ran flawless.
He opted to take the FCA settlement and required recall.
The egr melted out of the intake within 2 weeks.
The waranteed it,
It melted thru again within a couple weeks.
Then it was at the shop 4 more times in four weeks. 6 times total in 10 weeks.
His once flawless 19mpg all day long little sewing machine became a P.O.S.
He traded it in. He said I can't sell it out right when I know its doing this.
So - with the vehicles you have that are affected, will you run performance tests before and after the imminent recall? I am very curious. I also wonder, how was the problem caught? Isn't regular smog testing required for big diesel trucks? That suggests that a Volkswagen type device was implemented that detected when it was being tested.
Somebody talked?
The government probably did an audit.
No check engine light, visual inspection, smoke check. I live in California, have three diesels, LB7, LLY and LBZ. Not much to the check, no tailpipe test.
I just hope this doesn’t messes up the diesel ownership of GM and Ford vehicles further than it is messed up already. Unfortunately , I think it will. Just by focusing a giant light ray on the diesel trucks it will invite further legislation and scrutiny. Not good.
No, this is good. If there is more scrutiny, there will be higher emission standards, which is good.
@Bluebottlenose no, that terrible. Emissions control only hurts performance, efficiency, and our wallets negatively. It is absolutely a negative.
It destroyed the environment. Go with battery or gasoline @@fightfanian
@@martinandersson5982lmao, batteries. Have you seen how damaging to the environment mining all the raw materials to make those batteries causes.
Go crawl back in your hole 🤡
@@fightfanianClean air is worth a lot more than diesel truck performance imo
Keep the trucks, test them after Ram “fixes” them and see the difference
I would never allow ram to “fix” this lol
I used to own one of the Jetta TDI vehicles affected by the programming issue. I tell you what that thing was a rocket. Incredible performance and got 54 mpg with the AC on. Shame our government regulates all the fun out of cars. I remember the last time it happened. Almost killed the V8 in the late 70's and early 80's.
Something to keep in mind is it's hard to get these vehicle to run right on DEF fluid. This is why Subaru won't bring their diesel over here. This is why so many do the DEF delete.
Are you saying it doesn't run as good when you jamb filters in the exhaust? Imagine that..
I was watching a video the other day in Australia where a guy was at an EV charging site, and a diesel generator ran 24/7 365 with next to no cars charging per day. This wasn't some little 3000 watt generator, it was a huge one with what I would assume was a 4 cylinder diesel.
Generally, when there is a diesel engine next to an EV charging station, it's for back-up power in the event that grid power goes down, so that EV drivers can still get to where they're going. In Australia, it's conceivable that there are some remote places with no grid power available which would necessitate something like what you describe, but they would be very much the exception. Australia is a sunny place ... a bunch of solar panels and a honkin' big battery make a lot more sense in that situation. I suspect that reality isn't what you were led to believe.
@@bikeaddictbp Generally means generally, not all the time. It was in a remote area away from the grid, but it just serves to illustrate that EVs don't always make sense. Most electric charging stations in the US are fed by coal fired plants, not saying that is bad though. My friend was an engineer and said that because of the scrubbers and emission controls, the air coming out of coal fired energy plant was cleaner than normal air. All that came out was steam. Give me a diesel engine over electric, for now anyways.
@@cragre28 That coal-fired generating station is pumping out plenty of CO2. It does not get scrubbed out. Coal usage for electrical generation is on the decline, and the province that I live in stopped it completely several years ago. Today, approx 58% nuclear, 25% hydro, 7 - 10% solar and wind, 7 - 10% natural gas. Australia has lots of solar generation, and more coming.
@@bikeaddictbp Considering my friend was an engineer who focused on power management for huge corporations, including some of the largest companies in the US, I trusted what he told me. If he were still alive I would ask him actual numbers, but he died 2 weeks ago at age 43 of an embolism.
@@bikeaddictbpthere are scrubbing systems on exhaust from coal powered power plants. Look it up sometime.
I’m sure Uncle Sam will use the Billion dollars to feed & shelter the homeless in the US & not send it overseas
LMAO!😆😅
They’ll use the $1.6 billion to secure the border
Are you hoping for a handout? Maybe you can use one for an education?
I've got a 2019 ram 3500 with the standard output diesel. 120k miles on it. The tailpipe is cleaner than my 2023 jeep with a gas engine. The government needs to stop regulating diesel trucks this tight. Their emissions are cleaner by far than gas engines are, but no one is saying anything about gas. Electric heavy-duty trucks will not be viable anytime soon. Diesel makes the world run. Can't get rid of it.
Lets face it they don't want you to own one, so they'll just keep turning the screws until most people opt out. They'll continue to discourage bio-regenerative fuels and disregard the environmental impacts of the current grid and what it takes to produce the current gen lion batteries, just remember: fossil fuel bad, electric good.
Thank you!!!! Completely agree!!! This government push of EVs and their hate for diesel is infuriating
Which government? US? EU? china? Australia? South Africa? Every country worth talking about has strong diesel engine emissions standards. The EU’s rules are stronger than the US.
@@stonepa I live in the US, so that's the government I'm referring to. Diesel emissions continue to get tighter and tighter every year here with huge penalties for non complying companies.
@stonepa Don’t bring facts into conversations on RUclips. You are causing error in the force field. Plus referencing non-US countries/organizations/entities/metrics you are truly confusing the faithful.
If it's just software and tuning. Get a tuner now don't install it until the truck gets an update. When you take your truck in to get reprogrammed it'll download that tune as stock and then you can tune it with whatever tune you bought. When you bring it in for inspection just put in the stock tune it'll pass and then re-tune it when you get back home.
Definitely keep your Ram 2500 and go through the process other owners will go through and do another video or two about it.
There is a recall on it. The recall number is 67A I took my 2016 3500 to the dealer for my free safety inspection and they performed the recall which is a software update. I don't feel any difference in the truck right now but I haven't towed my 15k 5th wheel after the reflash so we'll see how it feels once spring hits and I start camping again.
The 67A recall is from 2020!
The recall that was performed on my truck is 67A. I'm looking at the recall right now. It says 1 revision and has a date of Dec 2023. It states the engine control software must be updated as required by the EPA. Maybe it is an expansion on a previous recall but 67A is the recall #.
@@gregfurr6351delete your truck you libtrd
Got mine scheduled for the recall. Your comment gave me a little bit of comfort. Hoping no change and Bruce can keep on keepin' on!
Bottom line is the EPA Will continue regulating and using the department of Justice as henchmen ... Might I remind you The EPA is making and enforcing decrees these are not laws.
Laws can only be made and voted on in Congress through a constitutional process.
The EPA will continue Until there are no fossil fuel powertrains left ... Because let's face it, The EPA will just continuously move the goal post to the point where no matter how much engineering you do it will never meet an acceptable standard.
The EPA should be abolished, bottom line.
But what vin code are the affected trucks? H/O or standard output?
Just drive yours , if you decide to let them flash it, I would do a few back to back detailed mpg runs , checking fuel mileage and DEF usage . The repeat when you get it back . If it were mine I would simply avoid taking it back to a dealership, they can’t flash it if it’s never there. Once the fix has been out you can decide if you want to proceed based on results from others.
I wonder if the Nissan Titans with the Cummins might also potentially be affected?
Nissan probably didn’t ask Cummins to fudge the emissions and that’s probably why the Nissan had engine problems.
Is it the same size diesel? I’m not the most educated on this subject , but I had the same exact thought
None of those run anymore 😂
@@sacramentofoodforestNope. Nissan had the 5.0 cummins. Ram still has a 6.7 cummins
@@rockycadieux4642Right 😂😂😂
I'm not opposed to clean air. However, these emission regulations are increasing rapidly and too fast for the consumer to keep up with... yes, the consumer. That's who ends paying for these systems. First at the time of purchase, and secondly when they fail, we have to pay for them to be replaced. So for most people who own and operate these trucks the question should be " do you want clean air, or do you want to put food on your table?" So at some point these regulations need to be checked to create time for the consumer to understand these complex systems. Give the market time to adjust properly for these expensive systems. Allow the consumer to not look over their shoulder for just trying to make a living.
1. So yes clean air... sure
2.Check the epa so they don't ruin this market completely... absolutely
3. Don't force consumers to purchase an overpriced cellphone on wheels, and allow for a fair market and see what the people want.
4. Stop our government from controlling consumers in the free market
What's your thoughts?
There’s a new round of emissions reductions/regulations in the works right now. They’re expected to go into effect for model year ‘27 I think. From what I recall reading awhile back, they will definitely be more restrictive. They get progressively more restrictive through the years.
I agree. We need to stop EPA, they are nothing more than a tyrannical government group. Emissions have reduced the reliability of vehicles, small engines etc, nothing starts good or lasts anymore. We pollute more and have more waste because of EPA.
Just need someone to tell the EPA " you did a thing with diesel emissions... now chill out for a couple decades. Give the industry and consumers time to chew and swallow that $h!t sandwich you just served them!"
Who is going to tell the EPA that for the American people!
So put in emission controls and increase fuel consumption?
The government should have e every diesel have the emissions system deleted so they use less fuel.
No
I don't think you understand that fuel economy and emissions are only very loosely connected. Your suggestion makes no sense, sorry. Better fuel economy doesn't negate the need for emission controls
yes child totally 😂
@@dieseldrax Less fuel burned is less emissions.
I know I drive a truck with def dpf, and 90% of the time the truck is broken down is because of the government juice. I'll personally never by a newer truck with all that junk. It's unreliable, it uses more fuel, it chokes the exhaust, and it's more expensive to maintain.
Looking forward to a follow up video on the outcome.
If it were my truck- I’d keep it as is. They are great pickups.
depends where you live. california wont let you register if you dont get the software update.
I think it sucks that manufacturers have to pull tricks like this just to stay in the game, emission control is out of control
@@62guitarguyAgreed. The second amendment infrigements also come to mind.
I mean, Ford and GM seem to be doing just fine with their diesels without breaking the rules.
@@loganhyler9588 so far.....
@@62guitarguy so your solution is let these companies do what they want on emissions...? We would be living in a city with heavy black smog.. no thanks.
Government is out of control
Why is it the gov doesn't have to have Def on there diesels but the consumer does?? Cause it sucks
Government vehicles are not exempt from emission control regulations.
I had the eco diesel. I almost had an accident pulling out of the parking lot after the update. It became scary to drive. The first time my wife rode in it after the update, she said I wouldn’t own it long. She was right.
Can you elaborate upon your comment? What was “scary” about it?
Slow… really slow
@@JEDss454
We had the same issue. There was another update that fixed the issue.
Same. Used the settlement money to delete our eco-turd.
The colder operating temps cause extreme lag
the pedal delay on an ecodiesel is insane. When you press the pedal nothing happens for ~2 full seconds. You have to drive it kinda like a forklift where you rest your foot on the pedal to keep it "engaged" . It is "scary" pulling out into traffic when you press the gas and nothing happens. Some people mistake it as turbo lag but its in the electronics. @@JEDss454
I'm hanging tight with my 2022 3500HD. We'll see what kind of resolution they come up with.
This wouldn't have happened, if the EPA wasn't so out of control.
It’s a damn shame when Cummins’ largest risk to remaining in business is the federal govt. Is the govt really representing the desires of the people!??? Not for this guy that’s for sure…And not the needs of the heavy truck industry either.
If it were me I would just drive the truck as normal and do nothing.
unless you live in a state with emissions testing and you won't be able to renew your plates until you get the update.
It’s all fine and dandy for you. But this will be a big hit for Ram. Fine and then possibly having to buy back trucks like VW had to, plus have to correct the issue. It all costs them a lot of money.
Just make sure to not service it at a dealer.
@@RoamGaming
Yeah - except that doesn't happen in reality. You can still register and drive it as normal.
@@Gonecheenin my sister was required to update her VW in Washington state, and I am sure that here in California it will be required as well.
If I had one of these trucks, as long as it would still pass emissions I would just leave it alone & keep driving it.
But if it wouldn't pass emissions I would sell it probably sooner than later.
And I'm glad to hear you guys read the comments, that says a lot about you ,& the company, just another reason why you have such a great & successful channel.
And I'm one of those guys that think that electric cars will eventually die out, as soon as they've been out long enough "10-15 years" & people start realizing just how dirty & inefficient they really are. Electricity just doesn't come out of thin air, it's made. And most is made from burning coal or Natural gas.
A number of states are requiring letters from the dealer certifying the fix was performed to renew registration, if you're in one of these states you won't have a choice.
It’s funny because we all seen the pictures and videos of brand new government spec vehicles rolling off the assembly line with nothing more then a muffler. It’s ok for them just not us.
I wonder what the effect would be if say half the people who pay income taxes all decided not to pay them for 6 months. Think they could still give away our money to fund proxy wars? If organized and done properly , no doubt the impact would be great enough to cripple the broken system of waste and abuse. Imagine being upset enough at government that people started a revolution based on tea. I think the argument can be made that they were more free before the Boston tea party than we are currently.
We can hope a politician of the people will rise and can organize such an effort to return the US to freedom and prosperity. If not soon, it will become too much to overcome.
@@TheStockGroup314You think the government needs your tax money to fund spending. You don't understand modern monetary operation.
Your dreaming, government vehicles are not exempt from emissions control regulations. Military vehicles are the ones who get a pass.
What makes me sad here is all the people that are afraid of their state government taking away their ability to drive their trucks if they don’t comply. You people seriously need to start getting involved before you have no rights left.
I’m not even against having some level of air quality requirements, we wouldn’t even be in this situation if so many idiots didn’t think it was a good idea to make their trucks roll coal, then post videos all over the internet doing incredibly stupid stuff with their trucks.
Don't forget that those VW diesel engines were also getting around 40mpg before the recall. After the recall the fuel economy dropped to around high 20s to low 30s mpg. If I were you I would keep the truck and never take it to a dealer to get it "fixed" or neutered.
I'm curious why, with HD trucks, they don't give them fully electric drive trains, with a diesel engine generator? Like trains and ships. All the range of a ICE, all the power of a electric?
I know Edison is starting to do it with semis. Im sure it would be doable in the HD class.
The generator still needs to comply with emission standards. I think you'll see Stellantis expand the use of the upcoming PHEV powertrain, which uses a Pentastar V6 as the range-extender. I suspect they're using the version of the Pentastar that's in the Pacifica van, which is re-tuned for efficiency. It's easier to make that comply with emission standards.
Price and weight are probably the biggest factors. HD trucks are all about payload and towing capacity. Start adding electric, diesel, probably small-medium battery, you could be looking at big $$$ + quite a bit of weight.
Edison and Deboss Garage are working on this right now. In fact they just posted a video of the partnership.
I had a Ram 2016 Eco-Diesel that I had purchased new. I had about 70,000 miles on it when it got the update. I did get $3,750 payment but it was not worth it. My mileage dropped tremendously! The truck got 32 mpg when it was new. After the update it got 22 mpg. The truck was very lethargic and was not responsive. It went from being one of my favorite trucks to least favorite. I traded it in on new 2021 Hemi. If I was you all I would not accept the update and keep the truck the way it was. In the letter I received from RAM they told me the update would not hurt my mileage or performance. That was a lie on both accounts! Don’t believe the letter they will send you telling you that it won’t change it.
@@bassnbrass9272
That is incorrect.
@@GonecheeninCalifornia has made it clear they are one, a notice sent in the mail to affected owners there explicitly states this.
@cpufreak101
Well - I guess I wouldn't be shocked at California doing that.
But I can tell you PA doesn't.
@@Gonecheenin yeah I'm pretty certain it's limited to just CARB states at the moment, though even non-CARB states not getting the fix can still get you difficulties such as denial of warranty repairs until the fix is applied
@cpufreak101
Well, the wife and I's newest vehicle is 20 years old as of this coming New Years - so I'm still good there. LOL!!!
I'm just hoping to find an "unfixed" TDI when I'm ready to upgrade from my 2004 that currently has 350,000 miles on it.
It’s amusing how some people are saying they won’t take it to the dealership for Reprogramming . Unfortunately if you read the letter from FCA you won’t be able to register your vehicle the next year until you comply
Someone needs to recall the EPA.. this is insane..
Yeah, ban clean air! If you don't want cancer, you're not murican!
Cummins broke the law. Go cry about it.
@@tacobell2104 laws are like hearts .. some needs to be broken..
Would love them to look at the gas engines too. Claimed fuel economy vs actual.
I can't get anywhere near the claimed fuel economy on my 5.7. Even on Cruise on a flat highway with no wind, no load, only 1 person in truck, I can only get 16 mpg. Engine has 33K miles and should still be able to hit close to the 21 MPG they claim on highway.
Tires stock?
How tall lift?
Chin spoiler stock or removed?
Driving speed?
@@is6566
Not stock tires, but same size/spec.
No lift
Everything is still stock. No mods
55-65 MPH - Similar results anywhere in that range.
What's your elevation? It's an NA engine
Look at the cycle they claim for the rating. It will either be a standardised or proprietary rating system. Here in Australia for example it's a fairly basic system using a machine similar to a dynamometer. It simulates an urban commute followed by a suburban drive, then a 90kmh / 55mph drive to simulate open road driving. The ratings all tend to be more economical than you can achieve on the real world consistently as there is no wind resistance component on the dynamometer, however as all cars sold here use the same test procedure it's a useful tool for comparisons between vehicles.
@@bobman717
Around 600-700' above sea level.. Near Wisconsin. Standard 5.7 with eTorque, no mods or tunes.
When Cummins came out with the ISX and ISM engine it would only pass emissions with factory installed injectors and that part was not available when the injectors went bad and had a superseded number that would cause engine to no longer be able to pass a test
I had an isx in a boat burning red fuel and used the truck injector because the boat injector puuuuuked fuel. It was a smoky nasty mess with the marine injector. 😂 Idk who they built that engine for but it was a messy machine out of the box.
So what will the pcm update do? Do you have to do the recall update?
It's painful to own a modern diesel with these emission systems. EGR, DPF, SCR, and DEF are just some of the things that are in place to keep emissions down, such as NOx, CO and particulates, while fuel consumption and CO2 emissions go up, and many of these systems gets clogged with sot after less than 100 000 miles and it costs thousands of dollars to fix and replace what people could have all saved if they did a delete while also saving fuel. I get that we need lower emissions but it's also expensive for the owner.
I had two VW diesels, the last one being 2006, last year before the regulations tightened. When it came time to replace that car, I wanted nothing to do with how complicated they had gotten (this was before dieselgate), thinking it was too complex for its own good. That proved to be the case ...
All this whining about cost to the owner. You don’t hear me whining in my gas truck.
@@tacobell2104 Gas trucks suck for towing though, fine for grocery shopping I guess, which is what 95% of trucks in America are used for 98% of the time.
My 3.5 EcoBoost can tow a skid steer. How much towing capacity is needed? Your second sentence sums it up well. People use HD trucks as glorified passenger vehicles 95% of the time which is fine but if you don't want to pay for maintenance of emissions equipment, buy gasoline. Anytime discussion comes up about regulating how much a passenger vehicle is allowed to pollute brings out the uneducated from the trailer park about defunding the EPA. @@AgentSmith911
I think it would benefit your viewers to see you go through the process of getting the truck fixed
The obvious answer is…. get an “un-fixed” 6.7 asap, register it in a state (like Michigan) that doesn’t smog your truck, and never let the dealer lay a finger on it.
I'm hunting for an unfixed TDI Jetta right now - but after an initial drop, the prices have really spiked on those!
@@Gonecheeninwe bought a cheating Passat TDI right after the scandal hit, and we loved every minute of owning it. But the buyback was too good of an offer to refuse, so we waited til the final day of the turn-in window and took a healthy profit on it. (And then we bought another one.) TDI’s are great cars.
@@Gonecheenincome buy my 2012 Hoodstacked lol
I bought a post VW lawsuit 2014 passat tdi with 60k miles for 6k in 2019. The things been running like a champ. It currently has 140k miles and still getting almost 40 mpg. Its the best car ive ever bought.
Im hoping the prices drop like a rock on these things like they did with the VWs.
As if I needed more reason to like Cummins and Dodge.
Bravo to any manufacturer willing to give the finger to the green cult.
Amen!
👍
The 1.6billion fine when the EPA receives it. I bet they won’t spend a dollar on cleaner solutions to ‘balance’ out the mistake by Ram.
They will use that money to go after other manufacturers like Ford and Chevy
The Volkswagen dieselgate concluded with the money going toward EV chargers. VW created ElectrifyAmerica.
@@aussie2uGA and now they're 214 billion in debt and rolling back ev production.
@@fastfreeks that's on them for bad leadership
These diesel engine companies need to quit doing these out of court settlements and go to court and prove that the EPA regulations are based off of manufactured and manipulated research data. The 2001 emissions are good enough. I drove an open cockpit farm tractor for 2 decades that had no emission controls. Breathing that exhaust and field dust all day didn't effect my health any.
I’m an EcoDiesel owner who has had their truck updated with the “approved emissions modification” and honestly I haven’t seen any change in power or drivability. Maybe a 5% drop in fuel economy but that’s it. Hopefully for the Cummins owners it will be a similar experience.
my avg drop 4.7 mpg since the HPFP was installed. weight loss is coming
Hey you. Stop letting your facts get in the way of everyone’s conspiracy theories lol
I’ll be keeping my eye out for one of these RAM’s ! Hopefully our next President will get rid of a lot of this BS from the EPA. It’s destroying long term reliability and making vehicles cost a fortune
Now I’m setting here waiting for the video from Gale Banks talking about how he can solve this.
and he will
unnh guys the recall is already out.. It is 67A issued by FCA. I just got mine in the mail today 12/29/2023 It was emissions related pushed by the EPA. it is "D truck engine calibration".
What about the millions of military vehicles that don’t have emissions on them?
Emergency vehicles and vehicles used for national defense are exempt from the Clean AIr Act.
EPA needs to be defunded
And the 2nd amendment needs to be repealed. Same chance.
Ram should get medals for giving us power and torque.
Epa should be dismantled.
How bout that?
Will this affect the Nissan 5.0 Cummins? I found an article talking about it and now I can’t find it.
I’ve come to the conclusion that the government does not want the public to have diesel vehicles that’s probably why it’s more expensive at the pump than regular gas.
What baffles me is Europe and many cities in South America, like Santiago de Chile, actually tax gasoline more than diesel. This makes diesel cheaper. Also, most of the cars on the road are diesel.
The reason is that diesel vehicles are cleaner than gas. When tuned and operated correctly.
When you have oil refinery executives that are campaign contributors and lobbyist, you then see the why...
Diesel is more expensive at the pump because oil companies know that diesel runs the economy with trucks and trains. They know they can always have a high price for diesel because the cost is ALWAYS passed on to you and I, the consumer.
@@oldhardrock2542 So when you have very expensive equipment that will fail on vehicles... that will make Diesels cleaner?