Addressing IndyCar's Texas Controversey
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- Опубликовано: 19 ноя 2024
- / davidland
IndyCar is headed to a street course in Dallas in 2026, the same market as the beloved Texas Motor Speedway. Let's talk about the current debate between ovals and street courses and why IndyCar chose the street course option.
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They paved paradise
And raced in a parking lot...
@@Bullypulpit hopefully it’s paved. Streets are so bad here. Potholes and bumps everywhere. Not sure about that area, but hopefully it’s better than where I’m at.
@@marty0063whoooosh
Nicely done!
Please not another street course. These cars are beautiful around road courses.
I'm a fan and I watch IndyCar in Brazil! I'm upset that the tycoons who run IndyCar are devaluing the category. F1 is getting bad, NASCAR is getting bad and IndyCar is getting bad. I wish these categories were valued to the extreme.
"Why is indycar copying the boring Things of F1"
Yes, exactly... Thank you! 👍
Wait a second, IndyCar copied F1?!
When did Indy car copy F1
Indy Car is f1 daddy
F1 is high tech 🙄
Drivers championship 😂😂nahhhh
Everything about F1 is boring in comparison to indycar. Copying them is useless when people can just watch F1.
Hmm, copy the series that's ultra popular right now, yeah, really dumb. F1 should be doing ovals where 8,000 fans show up.
@@sz5876 F1 is a fad, No one will stick around long term, once they realize that the races just don't have passes or battles, and the only overtakes are from team orders or drs.
To use Sean Heckman's line about mid-level marketing guys, Mark Miles' job is to not get fired.
"Why is Indycar copying the most boring parts of F1?" Damn. Mic drop.
Hopefully, they don't, and they can craft a street course that rivals the fun of Long Beach, but I think that really boils down to getting the technical side of the course selection correct. It usually doesn't revolve around whether or not "Jerryworld" gets adequate screen time. I don't have a lot of faith. But then again, Detroit's 2/2 for being an entertaining race, and that was a Mickey Mouse circuit, too.
Ngl I was most interested in the winnie the pooh, little mermaid, and donald duck dancing gif in the video lol
I'll be seeing that in my sleep.
Especially at 2x speed.
I'd rather go back to COTA than ever do a street course in Dallas. They want DFW, go to Texas Motor Speedway plain and simple.
I was at the last 2 races at Texas Motor Speedway - they didn’t have a guess the attendance contest - you had to name the people there
Your options are 1. No races in Texas. 2. Dallas Street Race. The reasons these are the only two options is not caused by IndyCar's management.
You are exactly correct!
I went to the F1 race around the cotton bowl in 1984. I was 102 degrees neither the drivers and the fans wanted to see the end of the race, It was too damn hot!
Yes!! I completely agree. It would be amazing to have Indy here in Austin.
I feel like that 2023 race at Texas made this more complicated. If we remove that race, TMS was a consistent disappointment and even trying to make a double header out of it didn't help.
One last comment. F1 is commercial free during the race, they know how to present their product better than anyone.
That's because Mercedes buys all the commercial spots. It's not Liberty Media posting for that.
Find someone to do that for IndyCar and you'll get commercial free races.
I mean the cars are fast moving commercials.
At the very least, it should be side by side screens while a commercial is playing so at least you can keep an eye on the race
I thought F1 didn’t have commercials because I paid $100 for the year. Also thought live free broadcasts of F1 have commercials, such as ESPN?
@@WzrdOnWheelz Practice and Qualifying have commercials along with the pre race show. The actual live race is presented commercial free with a faded logo at the top right saying something like "Commercial Free Presented by Mercedes Benz."
You are stuck with the god awful Sky Sports F1 commentary team.
At least they are going to race on the streets of Boston. Wait...what?...nevermind.
🤣
12:42 In 2001, Roger Penske was livid with CART for not coming to an agreement with (his former track) Michigan, which also gave the fans an incredible final race before it moved to the IRL. Short memory is endemic in the IndyCar paddock😑
Think the same can be said for Nazareth Speedway.
Penske should have brought back the summer night race at Texas. A lot of fans would have liked it.
I bet they would get a massive crowd. Probably at 15,000!!
I was upset to lose an oval, because I honestly believe the season should always be 50% ovals, but losing Texas didn't upset me as much as one would think. Mostly because I never understood why they slathered a race track with 'anti-grip' compound. 🙄
That was a NASCAR decision and it didn't work for them either.
I'm hoping that HyVee tries to sponsor a race at Kansas Speedway in the spring to get another large oval on the schedule and before Indy so folks can get an oval race in before the 500.
@@PaperBanjo64Then repave the mo-fo …
My biggest concern with this is: if it Fails I’m scared that Penske Entertainment will leave or give up on the DFW market. (Which sucks for me as a north Texan)
I’ll give Penske Entertainment this: It’s interesting to have a Dallas street race hell I’ll probably attend this race I’m actually excited to see what happens.
That being said (BRING BACK TMS!!!!! ITS LITERALLY RIGHT THERE)
I don't know the numbers but the St Petersburg race seems to be well attended when I've gone. That's not to say an oval race vs a street race in texas would have better attendance
As a 71 yr old Brit who grew up passionately following F1, but have resided more than half my life in the US, can I add my 2 cents to this controversy. The one thing that differentiates Indy Car from F1 IS OVALS!!! Scrap ALL the street courses, including Long Beach. They are boring processions that spent approximately half the race under yellow flag conditions due to being too narrow & lack of equipment to clear damaged cars off the ‘track’ in a timely manner. Sure keep the likes of Road America, Mid Ohio, Portland & Laguna Seca (ditch Barber) & go back to the Glen, but for the love of pete add Michigan, TMS, Richmond & maybe Homestead (for a South Florida presence). I already despise anything to do with Jerry Jones & the Cowgirls & his obvious finger in this pie just adds to that. Lastly, Indy Car needs to add races. U are competing for audiences of other series who offer 36 races (NASCAR) & 23 races (F1). Indy Car SHOULD go head to head against the NFL instead of being afraid of it. I live about 70 miles west of the Nashville Super Speedway & I didn’t attend this season’s finale from the very simple reason that the temps were around 100f & there’s no shade in that grandstand. Races should still be being held into late October when the likelihood of such temps is greatly reduced. Thanks for all u do & ur commentary on the perpetual mess that is Indy Car - oh for the good old days of CART/CHAMP Car
Im okay with it as a fan. I’d just like them to run more races and fill in the gaps.
Indycar dropped Fontana for the same reasons. The track's president wanted a date that Indycar and its TV partners couldn't agree on. Eddie Gossage stepping down from president of TMS was the beginning of the end. No one at the track or SMI was a bigger advocate for Indycar at Texas (even if he mangled the track and made Indycar racing there unwatchable for a few years). I feel like racing series across the world are embracing the mentality of, "Bring the race to the people instead of asking people to come to the race." This is one reason we're seeing more street circuits.
@@jacobboenzi3222 Exactly.
RIP Eddie@@kylegoodman5196
Yep Eddie was the one keeping indycar their
If not for Eddie, IndyCar would have likely stopped racing at Texas a few years earlier.
you nailed it.
DFW resident here. For those that aren’t from around here…Cowboys stadium is in Arlington, TX right in the middle of the metroplex and next door to the new and old Texas Rangers baseball stadium. A solid 15 miles from downtown Dallas…won’t even see it in the background. NTT’s base in Plano is even farther away. This area is a great entertainment district but with no mass transit in Arlington and likely using parking lots for grandstands and pit road…parking and traffic will be atrocious. Granted this isn’t a F1 race but this area is not going to be ideal for traffic if all the roads are closed for a street race. I would probably want to attend for the experience but TMS is where the race is at. Really think Indycar and SMI can find a date that works for both parties especially with TMS being down to 1 true race weekend with renting out the other date to COTA.
Us regular and hardcore fans are VERY disappointed that we won't be at TMS, certainly. However, the lack of fan support, the empty seats for that race was hard to see. There would have been less at the *new proposed date, as the heat is worse in late summer, we don't race in early fall. I HIGHLY disagree with Tony here, for it's size, the DFW fans just didn't show up. This new race should be very marketable, and very accessable to build new, young fans. Hopefully the Cowboys (Irvin is involved, so that would suggest this) have big a hand in said marketing to give it a serious boost. After a few years of this, go BACK to TMS, or if this is really successful and stays around, then.....good, go to a different 1.5 mile, they're out there......(and come on out to Portland bro, I stay by the airport in a good affordable spot that has no bums or bullshit, they actually do exist out here, lol)
Regarding the comment at 21:54 :
In 2006, I got into watching English Premier League not because I was a huge soccer fan or because I just had to learn about English sports... It was because when I turned on the television I saw a enormous stadium packed to the gills with people screaming their heads off in unison.
My point is that you don't get the TV audience without an exciting atmosphere at the actual race. It is much easier to fake that (for lack of better words) at a street course then at a huge stadium that's only 15% full.
David, love your work and passion, And im a die-hard NASCAR fan, i try to stay on top of all INDYCAR, but man it's October 1, i see this, and i can't think to myself, (the season doesn't began until March, with 1 month off following, basically early April, which is so far from now, the sport makes it near impossible to keep interest and a consistent fanbase, (Hence the ratings decline, etc). For God sake they ran their championship race, on a Sunday at Noon, the same time a Nascar playoff race was taking place and NFL Sunday. < As ratings show, didn't even break over a 1.0. Do the higher up's just not care? I continue to scratch my head at this sport.
They ran the race when they did because that's the time NBC gave them. People's obsession with laying all the problems at IndyCar management's feet is honestly baffling to me.
@@Corew1n And Indycar (Penske) signed that TV deal. So yes they have much of the blame. Look at the ratings for the Milwaukee double header. You can only find the numbers for Sunday. Saturday's race was only on Peacock, & the ratings were so bad they wouldn't publish them. I heard it was a good race, but I couldn't watch it.
David.. for being one who lived outside the Baltimore area during the three races that were downtown. It did bring people who didn't know Indycar or even racing in general. I know I had several people who didn't know Indycar from any other form of racing and they went and enjoyed every aspect of it. The Baltimore races didn't come back not because of fans not turning out, not because it was a failed race. BUT because of internal turmoil of Baltimore Racing Development and Downforce Racing management.
I'm not a fan of more street races when we have Watkins Glen, Road Atlanta, even the Charlotte roval, Pocono, Loudon, MIS, etc. But if done well it can be a great thing for exposure and new fans. TMS had been such a mess for too long and the lack of attendance buried that race despite the last race there being fantastic. the PJ1 did that race in and when fans aren't showing is it worth trying over and over again?
Adding a street course in Texas when there’s 2 perfectly usable race tracks is silly.
Yeah. No one talks about indycar going back to cota so imagine if they went there again
I have never heard a really good reason whey IndyCar could not fit COTA in to the schedule. Best track in America, its shows the 2nd class status of IndyCar.
To be honest, COTA they didn't draw and people can see massive difference in lap time with the F1 guys. It didn't help the brand.
I love COTA, but if they don't get massive crowds then it is obvious the difference between F1 and Indycar
@@Arturo-sm1tb After the 2019 race, they were gonna go back in 2020 (even had a title sponsor in AutoNation), but then COVID happened. After that TMS came to COTA wanting to rent the track for a NASCAR race. That race drew a much larger crowd than Indycar. So COTA never looked back. Apparently they lost alot of money in 2019 and made a ton of money on the NASCAR race. So, no interest from COTA. There have been several articles over the years asking the head execs at COTA about Indycar. They always answer that they would love to have Indycar, but they cant make money on the event.
Miles would rather another race at IMS Road Course
This wouldn't be a controversy if they just returned to Texas and if that track wasn't very close to Dallas. Texas would've been a great host for the season finale. I'm ok with 1 more street course but much prefer TMS.
Can we trade a decent Dallas track for Detroit going away!?
@@PaperBanjo64 New Detroit is awful. Belle Isle put on a few great races plus it was a better looking track. I would prefer Belle Isle returning or Michigan (but that's not happening).
@@naparacingfan9275 NASCAR won't allow Michigan International Speedway and Bell Isle Park owners said no so we're stuck with downtown Detroit
@@PaperBanjo64 Like I said won't happen sadly. Detroit is a disaster though for IndyCar and IMSA. Something should change.
@@naparacingfan9275 I'd like to see Kentucky Speedway come back for IndyCar, especially since NASCAR refuses to go there.
Indycar raced at night at Texas oval track before, alot of fans went to the races and Good, Great racing and the races continue to be Good, Great. Indycar race at the Texas oval track, TMS agree both Indycar and the track with companies helping.
Indycar is scared of ovals (atleast mark miles)
After Wickens they have run away scared of big ovals
It is said that SMI paid a lot of money so Indy wont race at TMS anymore because The indy race was better than the NASCAR race there and Jim France and Ben France "kennedy" didnt like it, so texas died so barber would have a date and later a points race.
@@AlonsoRules Can't blame them, especially after the tragedy in Vegas. I would like to see some more oval racing, but it do get sketchy
"Scared of ovals"... Series adds two ovals in 2024. Yea, ok.
IndyCar should be about high speed ovals.
Im fet up with Indycar.. the Rich elites and Fking RP and Jackass MM and their clan. I'll support the Indy 500 but that is where my loyalty to Indycar ends... The hell with Indycar. Everyone in the DFW area should boycott that street race!!!!
You nailed it. RP and MM are old, arrogant, holier than thou, tone deaf, elitists. They look down their uppity noses, at the fans.
You just have to know that by supporting the 500 gives them all they need to continue. I've not gone back or watched since 2022.
I’m setting the over/under on the number of years the Dallas Street Course lasts until Jerry decides to renovate and upgrade the stadium and pushes IndyCar back to the Oval at 3.5
My first ever Indycar race was at Texas motorspeedway last year after the final 4 in Houston. I drove 4 hours to Dallas and it was my first ever Indycar race and it had me hooked. Still till this day the best Indycar race I’ve been to, I’ve been to the last two Indy500 and a few other ovals and street races
Dallas is a terribly laid out City with terrible roads. What could go wrong?
I only accept a Dallas Street Race if it takes place in the 1984 Fair Park circuit...😂😂😂
Or at least around fair park area?
@@DuddleBug5 No. It must be in the exact same circuit.
What could have been ....we need a race in the north east....asap
Let Jerry promote his race. Let’s have both. We here in DFW supported 2 INDYCAR races before. Jerry will promote the hell out of this race and I don’t see how that could be bad for INDYCAR
Dallas GP try it. Texas oval track, TMS should be the one Indycar race at.
I'm thinking about IMSA in the 80s and how many street races they ran, in places like Del Mar, Columbus, Miami, and San Antonio. How many street races do they have on the 2024 schedule? Two, the unicorn of Long Beach that's survived for 50 years, and Detroit, because Chevy.
A street race in Dallas instead of returning to Texas Motor Speedway is BS. I don't like the idea.
I agree. It’s crazy too. Texas had some of the biggest crowds of any race.
@@thebigguy5590 Umm, no they didn’t, unfortunately. The TMS “crowds” weren’t very crowded.
@@JonDoe-ln6nl they were massive. Biggest crowd after the 500. That’s why all the fans are upset. They sometimes got around 20,000 attendees. That’s huge.
NTT is the title sponsor of Indycar. There should be a race in Japan. Bring back Twin Ring Motegi! 😂
Get a sponsor to make it happen and pay the freight. Honda Japan isn't interested, and American Honda is already the title sponsor of 4 or 5 races already.
@@danielhenderson8316 facts are difficult for Indycar fans.
I think you hit one major point right on the head, the overall health of MAJOR motorsports is off right now. When I got involved in motorsports through SCCA racing (both club and pro) in the early/mid '70s auto racing was on a high. By the time I walked away from active participation in 2003, racing (both amateur and pro) was looking at a drop in participation. The "younger" folks just aren't as motor racing focused as we were growing up in the '50s through the '90s. The use of disposable income has changed focus. The crowd size is down at many races, because people are taking their money someplace else. As a die hard road racer, I will say that oval tracks provide a better entertainment venue than a road course, because folks can plant their butt in a seat and see most of the event from one spot. Regardless, for me, the best true racing will always be a permanent/natural road course, the best entertainment will probably be an oval, and (with few exceptions -- Long Beach), street races are pretty much worthless.
Okay...I am a bit confused, as an ignorant fan who doesn't quite get the ins and outs of the series as a whole. How does this benefit NTT? Why would they call for this? I thought I just read somebody saying this was for AT&T, based in Dallas, and they would be driving around AT&T's headquarters. NTT would not be wanting to promote AT&T. 🤔
I'm disappointed that TMS is gone, but the Cowboys partnership could be huge for growing the sport, and that might've not been available had we not done the street race. Besides, if the street race fails, as new street tracks often do, we can always return to Texas
they should've did that shit with TMS back when it was on the schedule.
The 1995-2002 were the days for Indycar/CART/CHAMP Car.
If you were there to see it, you know it's true.
I'd wind that back to 1989.
@@danielhenderson8316 The Unser Jr vs Fittipaldi last laps at that Indy 500 were insane!
1995 had less ovals than they do now. I agree, less ovals the better.
Definitely not 2002. That CART season was terrible, although that IRL season was great.
@@arenasnow Champcar was terrible. It ranks lower than the IRL does tbh. CART on the otherhand.....
Part of the reason there were 4-5 years that the racing at TMS wasn’t good is the fault of NASCAR because of their stupid PJ1. Not IndyCar’s fault.
Yep then 2022 and '23 happened
Thats the point they (NASCAR) will collude with the tracks to always jeopardize Indycar racing and we still go back to beg them to schedule Indycar race and always end up getting treating as a step brother to Nascar and Indycar fans really dont care as much to support indycars on ovals and thats the sad truth, no matter how anyone spins that fact
In general, I prefer watching circuit racing over street courses and ovals for open wheel series. Obviously there ARE exceptions. So long as passing can take place, a good race can be had.
I'm conflicted. I'm glad Indycar is back on the state but I rather prefer Texas Motor Speedway over a street course
I was at that 2023 TMS with my sons and their friend (who were very much into the sport and knew the history), and I was brand new to the sport.
I LOVED the speed. Holy crap, those buggies were flying!
But I didn't understand and couldn't appreciate (simply because I was new - heck, I hadn't even figured yet that Colton Herta is the best 😉) the significance of that race and what it meant to the fanbase, both local and at large.
Everyone was praising the race, the car package, then ending, etc., and I was simply just giddy at watching machines zip past me at such impossible speeds.
We're fairly new to the DFW area and would love to see IndyCar return to TMS.
Before that happens though, I'm gonna go look up the broadcast of that race, and see if I can't see what everyone else is talking about now.
But Reddit (and Racer) assured me that the Nashville race was an abject failure because they saw some aluminum! That my being-in-the-stands eyes were lying to me!
I was surprised at the Boston GP documentary. I am an old old fan who, well, the Split just tore my heart out. Now I'm back, I missed stuff like that. It's nuts. And if Miles could survive that debacle the Dallas race (even if it's not great) is less than nothing.
NTT should help the Indycar race on the Texas oval track.
I've loved the racing at TMS. It used to be the only racing event I could get to each year. A late season TMS date would've appealed to me.
Hearing them call it a Dallas street race is weird considering the race will be in Arlington? I also doubt how interesting the layout can be on it's own. The only positives I see are financially related.
When are people going to wake and realize that street races suck! The streets are too narrow, there's no run off in the corners and way too many cautions. Cota is a perfect, race ready track that holds way more fans than any IndyCar show could ever field. Brewman
Honestly, screw it, if Indycar wants to be "we have F1 at home" then let's run around AT&T Stadium since F1 runs around Hard Rock Stadium, and let's go further and have a street race in Atlantic City since F1 has their street race in Las Vegas (and Atlantic City is basically an alternative to Vegas... Also it would force Atlantic City CRDA to repave the roads (I say this as a resident of Atlantic City and the roads are bad here))
Having lived in DFW for the past few decades....I have no doubts that Dallas can screw it up
And street courses suck in general
Mark Miles is trying another new race. He has not managed to keep a new race on the schedule since he came along except for IMS Road Course.
TMS not getting a race back is on Miles' inept leadership - he doesn't try hard enough. He needs to go.
He runs away scared of big ovals, doesn't try hard enough with Cleveland, can't secure Denver, failed Mexico City, can't get Miami. How is he still there?
Because his stagnation plan has kept the series mostly out of debt. Unlike Tony George, Roger Penske isn't going to destroy his business empire to fund the series.
@@danielhenderson8316 losing money is bad?
Vancouver British Columbia had a great street track back in the day that was not necessarily focussed around the stadium itself but was certainly the biggest landmarks on the circuit. The track was well received as far as I could remember by the drivers with quite challenging and well worth looking at the vintage races. I followed IndyCar back in the day growing up as a young man and now I find myself returning to following racing full-time. In the car is making a good comeback but it could show much better and it true potential has never been realized. And that’s why I turn into you Mr. land! You do such a good job unpacking everything and keeping us all informed. All the best
Indy car needs new exciting cars desperately.
V8, 2.5L-2.8L, large single turbo, no less than 14k rpm, no less than 900 hp. Preferably methanol.
Basically, just copy/paste the 2000-2002 CART formula. (And I was an Indy/IRL fan during the split).
"I'm gonna get a lot of comments from people... who say they didn't want to watch the entire thing..." I'm occasionally starting to fall into that category, but I've discovered the secret to keep my sanity: just play the video at 2 times speed to get the same information in half the time. All the David Land content we need, now in concentrate form. Perfect for my evening video binging.
Excellent analysis on Miles and his job security. It also explains why IndyCar has long had a fractured, schizophrenic, and stagnant fanbase, which will be the case for some time to come.
I remember the Boston Grand Prix debacle. John Casey & Mark Miles - a match made in hell.
David.. that's Bullshit! Although you have a point to stay in the Market where NTT is based... going to a street race has NOTHING to do with that. At TMS they WERE ALREADY IN THE MARKET and WELL est. at that track. So sorry, this WILL BE THE DOWNFALL of Miles because fans are not stupid. They know about NTT and the Market, and they also know they left a perfectly good track that produced some great racing for boring following the leader slow street race. If the fans are unhappy, they don't go, when they don't go no money is made and when there is no money, Miles doesn't get paid... so yes if the fans boycott that race, and show their displeasure, Miles WILL BE in trouble! PERIOD!
Best most awsome off season, like ever. Thanks for splaining it all.
Love ya David. Thanks for fighting for ovals for us
If mark miles doesn’t care about fans, then he shouldn’t care when they fail to show up to the race.
Idk man, I saw a clip a couple weeks ago of that Texas race and there were like 17 people in the stands. If the fans want the ovals then they have to show up. Especially when you have someone like Jerry Jones who is (probably) forking out huge money for this street race to take place around his stadium.
20:00 same I ain't going to no city for a race I'd rather go to a track in the middle of nowhere, Bristol is in a small town at the northern boarder of Tennessee and Virginia and people pack that place!
NASCAR fans have been going there 60 plus years. Different dynamic. Different fan base .
@marklittle8805 that's true I've been there myself
Why would you ever replace a high speed oval with a boring street course?
Seems like the folks coming to street races are there for the "event" and concerts, not the racing.
Monterey has a direct flight to DFW. We’ve almost made plans to go to TMS in the past. I think spending time around metro Dallas would be more fun for us.
What kind of glue is Mark Miles sniffing?
With this trend of NFL teams wanting racing events outside of their stadiums, I fully expect the Chargers & Rams to talk with NASCAR at some point about doing a race outside of Sofi Stadium in LA as a way for NASCAR to return to Southern California. As for this street race in my view, Indycar really needs to create a course that races like a real circuit, otherwise the fans (myself included) will demand a return to TMS.
Nah San Diego is getting the Nascar street course race and hopefully The Chargers can come back home.
This street race is going to be a mile from Six Flags Over Texas! Excellent.
Why is it even assumed that a late summer or early fall date will work at TMS? I live close to that track and, frankly, they got really lucky weatherwise in 2016. Chances are it would be oppressively hot even in the evening and fans aren’t going to want to sit up in those grandstands.
As for young people, Dallas has a very large young urban professional demographic. Just go to the Katy Trail on a weekend and you’ll see it. I’m not sure that a downtown IndyCar race will bring them in, but it’s not because they’re not there.
Your most most important point is that the street course races, in general, with the exception of ones that are already very well established, don’t generally survive. I can’t deny that.
Putting it out in Arlington at Jerry world would be a disaster, though.
I can't stand these street circuits around stadium car parks. That being said, i understand financial arguements of bringing the race to the people, potentially opening up indycar to non fans. However, i think thr disruption is more annoying for everyone, especially when you're a few miles from a dedicated facility. If they must have the street course, put that race on a Saturday, make it a double header then go to TMS on Sunday. Incentivise non fans of Indycar that may have their attention caught on the Saturday grab a ticket to see Indy at TMS
Yeah this is why Indycar needs a new CEO mark miles is just so out of touch with the current gen of fans
MM needs to go
Miles is just the mouth piece for Penske. He’s not making these decisions.
Looking at the Cup schedule, I see an opening in the schedule at the end of the year (Cup race in may). TMS Season Finale sounds fun... RP, Do it
Speaking of great ovals, Kansas Speedway???
Lobby HyVee to sponsor a spring race and it could happen. They do have a large presence here in KC.
Kansas is my home track if they were to ever return there I would be there in a heartbeat
A street course is almost always a racing parade wrapped around a tourism video. There could be five people watching in person, and it could look fine. There's always landmark that gets a hero shot every few laps, while almost no passes are made on the circuit. I hope that Dallas something out of it, cuz IndyCar fans probably won't.
Also, Miles is definitely the Carlos Tavares of the Indycar world.
I’m getting a Boston GP vibe with the Dallas GP
I’m not
Indycar needs a 24 to 26 race schedule. Iv been saying this for a long time
They can barely make a 17 race schedule lmao. They don't have the resources or money or views to make that happen
@@itsoscargil that’s the problem that Indycar has with viewers is the casual fan doesn’t know when the next races is it could be next week it could be a month and haft later. Yeah a weekend off here an there is good but if you have a race just about every week viewership will go up.
I think Indycar needs 35-40 races a year. They have the money.
you want an example of a well laid out street course? Politics will determine its future after next season, but as far as the circuit itself, it's hard to beat the NASCAR Chicago layout, as simple as it is. They utilized iRacing to test the track, run mock races on the track, and tweak things to solve problem areas. The result? a track that you can pass at over half the corners. And that is the measure of a good street course to me.
Imagine IndyCars on the Chicago street course...replace Detroit with Chicago!
IndyCar should be about high-speed ovals.
Totally Agree
High speed ovals don't want IndyCar unless they pay in advance. You need more than IndyCar to be interested.
@@danielhenderson8316 nope. That’s not how it works. Indycar can tell tracks when they are going to race there and the tracks have to pay them.
@@thebigguy5590 That's how it works if a track wants them. The other ovals on the schedule have sponsors like HyVee, Bommarito, or Big Machine renting the track and paying IndyCar to show up. Otherwise, those tracks would not be on the schedule.
@@danielhenderson8316 they just show up and the tracks have to accommodate. That’s why all the fans are upset. There’s no reason Indycar cannot go back to the old IRL schedule. Indycar is purposely sticking it to the fans.
I'm pretty sure IndyCar stopped racing at Texas because the drivers and teams didn't want to race there primarily. It seems like none of the ex-CART/Champ Car drivers liked racing on the 1.5 mile ovals. Dixon was around for the ill-fated 2001 CART race. Power has whined about all superspeedways other than Indy for quite some time, and I think lots of the teams didn't like the intermediate ovals because they were worried about crash damage (look at how almost all the ovals have fallen off the Indy Lights schedule... I refuse to call it by that new stupid name to be hip to the "young" Gen X base they are targeting). I'm pretty sure Las Vegas 2011 was the final straw for these people and nobody wanted to race on this track type after Wheldon's death. Just like how I think they didn't want to race at Pocono after Wilson's death (even though that had nothing to do with the track) and Wickens's injury. Penske now owns the series and his driver Newgarden was injured there also. Clearly IndyCar management cares about what the drivers and teams want more than what the fans want, and they probably aren't wrong to do so. I think the only reason IndyCar continued racing at Texas after that was because Eddie Gossage put heavy pressure on them and after Gossage was no longer managing the track, they seized upon any excuse to remove it from the schedule. I think that is what behind all of this and it has nothing to do with schedules and attendance at all although nobody wants to actively admit it.
IndyCar HAS had an executive hired to be responsive to fans (Randy Bernard) and nobody wants to admit that backfired. While many of his issues were Brian Barnhart's, he did not seem to care about the drivers' safety with the bull riding-esque gimmicks he introduced. Starting that 2nd race at Texas with a random draw scared the shit out of me especially when Wade Cunningham's wrecked car drew the 2nd starting position... I was petrified by something happening in that race and thankfully it didn't. Then racing in the rain at Loudon and then Bernard forced Wheldon to start last at Las Vegas due to his competition gimmick... Bernard was an attempt to pander to the established fan base and it seemed for a while like he was taking instruction from Robin Miller, so the fans loved him, but the drivers and teams clearly didn't and thought he was indifferent to driver safety and I believe all of this we are now seeing with Texas is a backlash to that. I myself couldn't stand Bernard for not caring about driver safety (although I admit part of the issue there was Barnhart) and was actually happy he was replaced. Thanks for the DW12 though. That was his only bright spot.
I've been around long enough to remember that Mark Miles was initially hired because Tony George's sisters were losing tons of money on the series and they wanted to get it back in the black. That is what Miles was hired to do and he did it. The IRL was never profitable when TG ran it but IndyCar has been consistently profitable since Miles took over, even if part of what led to the profitability is leaving cherished venues and moving to more fleeting ones. But the insiders were generally pleased by Miles because he made the series profitable again after it had been a money sink in the TG years. And to be honest, I thought Miles was good too for several years as I thought the era of IndyCar after he took over before Penske bought IMS and IndyCar was generally very good, although a lot of that I'll admit was because of the DW12 car which Bernard introduced. Although I think Miles was good, I think he has now outlived his usefulness and I think all the "Pato who?" stuff has created enough of a backlash that he won't be around much longer. But I think the fans consistently overrated Bernard and underrated Miles.
Having said that, I don't really blame Miles for the loss of Texas. It seems to me that the drivers and teams haven't wanted to race on 1.5 mile ovals for many years now at least since Wheldon's death (although they'll never admit it) and Gossage's departure was an excuse to finally get rid of it.
Very well said
I am from Oakbrook Illinois. Former international world, headquarters of McDonald’s and hamburger University, which, incidentally, was built on the ground of the old gun club, where my father used to take me out shooting when I was a kid. They close the facilities, both the headquarters, and hamburger university, bought out all the older people that were working there, and move, of all places, to downtown Chicago. One most high tax in hospitable places for a business in all of mankind. They did this so they could attract the young under 30 kitties who want to live in the city. They did this for the purpose of being over to pay a bunch of idiot kids who are going to ruin what took 50 years to build.
The world according to one old man.
The world has changed since the 1990s. How many malls and retailers are still around? How many kids still smoke cigarettes? Kids won't passively watch a race on TV, they'd rather interact with a video game. Screen time has increased, but TV isn't being watched by anyone under 40.. Kids don't think McDonalds are special fun places like we did.
Basically most sports are dying. Not enough fresh eyeballs.
That worked out so well for the last people who tried to have a street race in Dallas.
Just ask Nigel.
I also love the incidental crossover of Indy Car’s David Land and VTuber Ironmouse.
David ... your conclusion is spot on ....
IMO .... the "local experience" should be "festival atmosphere" .. fun, food, music, art and more pit access like NHRA maybe ? .....
The TV experience is different but should interwoven with the local festivities ... you need colors and landscape vistas, Barber MSP is a fine example, it is golf course-esque ... not prison walls and chain-link fencing .. WHAT IF .. they combined and OVAL with a street course ? Or a Road course with a street course ..Some freaking imagination is in short supply here ... just trying to help
Miami is honestly one of the most 'Meh' tracks in F1 and i wouldnt miss it if it dropped away. Racing around stadium parking lots is grim when you have so many good purpose built tracks you could goto, both road and ovals
As someone who attended the Milwaukee Mile during the mid-late 90's, you CAN fill the stands at ovals (other than the 500, of course). They put on a great show this year, best I've every witnessed at Milwaukee, but they need to 1) promote the hell out of it (my wife reminds me of the endless "The Mile.. .the Mile.. the MILWAUKEE MILE!! radio commercials in the 90s) and 2) step up the food/drink quality. It wasn't too bad this year, but they need to understand that many of the Milwaukee Mile attendants also go to the Road America race, which really puts the Milwaukee Mile food in perspective. Also they need to move Milwaukee to the week after Indy, but that's not happening until (brutally honest here) Roger Penske passes.
So Arlington not Dallas?
2 things...1) It's Arlington, which is now so big it can safely be considered it's own city in the metroplex and not just another suburb. 2) The location around the stadium has been built up a lot over the past few years and it is not all one big parking lot like it used to be but there are still plenty of spots that (pending environmental impact) that could be built up for temporary or permanent paddock space and all that build up includes a lot of lodging, food, and entertainment that makes the location good for a street race. It's also still a short drive to entertainment options in Fort Worth and Dallas.
I ADORE a good street course (for IndyCars at least) but all that being said, we probably don't need another fly-by-night street course that will be gone in 3 years. Keep the calendar balanced and bring back/build up the tracks that we know work.
Also, big metro areas don't necessarily bring in the young money-spenders but they CAN provide easy access to a large number of all types of people that can get to the track. That being said, I think it's more important to give access to actual racing (IndyCar specifically) fans who give a damn about the racing. That can be done in smaller metro areas like Portland or the middle of nowhere Wisconsin so it doesn't necessarily have to be a big city but that can help if the fans are there.
What exactly is helding back IndyCar on being faster than F1 on roadcourses? Is there some kind of agreement?
Is it ok for me to say that I am just excited that there will be an IndyCar race again within driving distance of where I live? Or will I just get attacked? lol I went to every TMS Indycar race since 2008. Loved them all (Even the boring ones; seeing cars scream past you at 220+ is not boring even if the race as a whole was); actually spent my money and went and supported IndyCar oval racing. I wish more would, but the crowd in 2023 was really small. And after 2023 it went away. The next closest race to me (I live in Houston) is Barber, which is an 11 hour drive. Too far, so I didn't go to any races this year. And it sucked! I wish they would have worked harder to stay at TMS, but I'm just happy they are coming back to Texas, so I can go see IndyCar live again.
Is that viewpoint allowed?
I loved it when the Indy cars ran multiple chassis and engines. I would be happy if they at least came out with a new Dallara Chassis in a couple years from now. Yea I know new chassis would cost tons of money the team especially the smaller ones do not have.
Supposedly, it's coming in 2027, but the closest we've got confirmation is a tweet from Jay Frye.
As a diehard of nearly a decade who's FIRST EVER IndyCar Race was Texas 2023, this is the biggest failure within the sport in my time as a fan.
With the exception of a few 500s, TX23 was THE BEST INDYCAR RACE of the last 10 years. If IndyCar is actively *moving away* from the BEST race in years....
They are utterly and completely hopeless. Which is a great shame. The only potential for redemption is the addition of Michigan or a TMS return. Until then, this series will always feel a bit empty to me.
Well said on the foundation aspect. Indycar seems like they look at a lot of what F1 and NASCAR does, oversimplifies all the hard work and resources that it takes to build success over time, and thinks that quick fixes and little half-assed approaches will turn their fortunes. Very frustrating.
"Texas has COTA and TMS but returning to either of those would be smart, and we need to do something stupid..." said apparently someone high up in IndyCar. Probably the same bozo that thinks the Nashville and Detroit circuits offer great racing. TMS not coming back in 2024 was supposed to be a one-off. What happened there?
I would watch a TMS race if it had to be on FX, FXX, or FS1 just as long as that ran it. I wonder, though, if part of the reason they couldn't add a date when TMS wanted one because they'd already promised the Big Machine guys that Nashville would be the season finale.
It's the right move. Above Great racing even... The venue needs to be entertaining, because the truth is, that die hard fans are still going to go.... But new fans want to see the special. I love racing, but aside from the start and the finish... Ovals get boarding in the middle. It's the right move for so many reasons right now...
I would love to see Indycar do more infield road courses like what they do at IMS. Let’s do Daytona or Charlotte using the road course’s configuration
As someone who attended over a dozen races at Long Beach, I can say it'll be a great experience to be there, barring them dropping the race in the summer... One can expect not just Indycar but an entire weekend of race cars on track, something that doesn't happen at the ovals for the most part. But, unless the layout is any good, the racing probably won't be great, so for TV viewers it'll be a dud.
The Death Star is in Arlington not Dallas. It’s halfway between Dallas and Fort Worth. I would rather have the oval race at TMS.
Ok. Speaking as a musician who works in the entertainment business... crowd your audience, not your band. It's always better to sell out a slightly undersized room than it is to half-fill an oversized room, even if there are technically more tickets sold. This is the best argument for street courses, or NOT OVERSIZED OVALS. It would be better for the looks, the excitement level, and frankly the TV product to have a smaller, but more energized audience.
The Dallas/arlington street race in 2026 will need to be early season, prior to May, as there's a much larger event taking place at the AT&T stadium through June and July and probably not enough time after that to construct and dismantle a circuit before the NFL season commences.