It’s because of money paid at top level. Every parent thinks their kid is going to be the next F1 driver so they have to have the newest and best equipment for mediocre Johnny to run up front. It’s the same with all professional sports. Top end money motivates. That’s also why the majority of divers are so young. No money or time left in the pot for the dads to just have fun.
Not completely true, I done karting with my son and I never went down that route thinking he's going to be the next F1 driver and theres plenty of parents who are not stupid either. But there is the exceptions, the parents who are mega rich who bleed money out of their arse and there is plenty of them who do believe it and that sets the precedent for other parents to try and give their kids the equipment to keep up.
The problem is also that it is difficult to separate expenses that are needed to be fast vs expenses that are there purely because rich parents pour in ridiculous amounts of money and buy a new kart every race and 15+ engines per seasons etc etc for mediocre Johnny. Besides that it is also a world where people want to show off how much money they have. But face it, karting is always going to be expensive if you want to run up front because costs (spares, damage, fuel, tires, track costs) go up quickly the moment you want/need to start training like 2 days per week.
Great video! I agree with the idea that karting is expensive because wealthy people want to flaunt they can afford it… However, as someone who raced in the F1 ladder system, I can say there is a practical reason for this excessive spending outside of ego. When making the transition from karts to cars (let’s say to F4 or Regional F3) your first season budget will range between $350k-1M these days. So from a team’s perspective, it’s a lot of risk to pluck a new kid out of karting who may run out of money halfway through the season, so essentially the spend in karting acts as a proof that the infinite money tap is there or not. This is why I personally went straight from rental karting to cars because I could develop 90-95% of the skills from “pro” karting for literally pennies on the dollar. Networking was harder ofc, but not impossible. My mistake was not doing at least some “pro-karting” where I could’ve learned about tire degradation and setup engineering is a safer environment than cars- focusing on learning rather than results.
Also, don't regret not doing pro level karting. I posit you've got a much better (and more popular) RUclips channel because of direction you took within motosport.
I've recently moved over to racing TKM 115 in the Access Karting paddock. They have an ethos for affordable UK karting and the paddock is growing massively!
I remember when I started karting at 9 years old, it was really my brothers and dads interest, I just wanted to drive practice laps, I hated the racing part because frankly other 9 year olds ruined it for me by crashing into me and getting way too competitive. I loved the driving at that age and if one day I open a kart track I wont have a junior category, I'd start the minimum age at 14 and they would be with the adults but under that they can do untimed track day laps only. I loved the driving but hated being pushed by my dad to be the next NASCAR champion, as I got to 12 and my age group learnt how to not be snotty little shits and actually drive fast then the competition became fun but from a 9 year olds perspective the "Racing" part is hell!
@@eloped420 The thing is competition is for me, I love it. but when you are 9 its a different story when your parents force you to race before you and any other kid can even drive and then when you don't win your dad becomes Jos Verstappen... now once I learnt how to drive and my age group learnt how to play together then it became fun and by 13 it was a great competition but 9 year olds can't even pass the ball in a footy match yet and parents are pitting them into a kart race it's just a recipe for misery with 9 year olds.
I'm currently doing my research to start karting at the ripe ole age of 46. I couldn't dream of running a 2 stroke with the ridiculous rebuild intervals, thank God 4 stroke karts are a thing where I am. Even then the motor life is bloody ordinary - if people are truly interested in making it affordable why aren't we running detuned motorcycle engines that will do 50,000km or more instead of 75-100hrs.
Do you live in the uk?. Are you local to A Teamsport venue?. Here's my advice Brother. Join teamsport, get some track time indoors, do some outdoor stuff, then when you know your level look at Ckub 100!. Thank me later. Ps-your never too old. Good luck.
I got back into karting some time ago, and 4 stroke prokarts at non MSA tracks is what I ended up doing. I knew a fair bit about karting as I'd got into it in my teens a long time ago, though I never raced...this was back in the the day of direct drive air-cooled motors and no bodywork..and also the Class IV Villiers gearbox class. In my 50s I did a couple of seasons racing before I gave it up as my business had got too demanding on my time for me to be able to spend my spare time enjoying myself racing. I bought a cheap 2nd hand machine and spent very little money - with standardised sealed motors, it meant the only real running costs were fuel and consumables such as tyres, and the odd chain and clutch etc. It wasn't cutting edge fast, but it was informal and fun.
The complexity of karting has sky rocketed and with that the costs. Big supporter of sealed engine classes, where it comes down to driver, not buying 20 engines and choosing the best one for each track. But then you get the bambino problem, with people paying £5000 for a chainsaw engine because on the dyno it had 0.5 hp more than its competitors
Sealed engines just move the cost the to the chassis. Local LO206 drivers at my track have more money in their chassis and engines then every guy in the shifter class. People will go through 6-7 motors a year just trying to find one that’s barely faster than the other.
@@LetsGoKart the exact same is done with open engines as well. people wanting to spend money of a chassis will do that in every class, but the difference is that sealed engines with homologation chassis classes are cheaper than the alternatives
I think you have neglected to also consider the parents in the criticism - my son was one step away from competing at the national level when he was 12, but mercifully told me on the drive to one practice session, that “he was going off Karting, bored of racing around in circles” - the previous year we spent around £12k on competing, I will never forget hearing in the paddock that ‘this engine’ was for sale and was snapped up by the wealthiest Dad for a whopping £6k ! - for one engine!! Parents ARE living their lives through kids, we saw first hand the pressure being placed on the kids - with parents spending that crazy amount of money, results matter more than just ‘pride’. We saw it - crying kids and angry parents - at every event. The parents believing that they had the next Button, Hamilton or Norris - was laughable. Parents were equally competing against other parents, buying that must have chassis, 4 sets of tyres per event, special fuel mixes, engines, everything. I am glad we got out when we did - especially as our son, now 17, stands at over 6’ 3” lol
another thing to note as well is demand for example, in my neck of the woods (atlantic canada), karting isnt very popular because of this, many karts that do end up for sale either arent up to race spec (yard kart) or are very pricy. due to the low demand, prices go up. i saw a ~2009 crg lo206 kart for 3.5k cad, or 1938 pounds, which doesnt sound like a lot but if im not mistaken our minimum wage is lower than gbr another thing to note as well is that here, most of the population is elderly. this means that theres a lack of young talent supporting the sport at the moment most people here haven't even heard of karting, its usually either oval or motocross if i said anything wrong can someone correct me? thanks. this is just from what i am aware of.
Atlantic Canada meaning where abouts in Canada? Im in Ottawa, Ontario where we've got tons and tons of classes anywhere from 1-5hours away depending on what you want. Although at my local track, about an hour away and on the quebec side, in briggs senior theres only about 9-12 drivers on a really good day, 7 race championship and the majority of those have seen under 8 drivers per race. 3.5K is about what you pay for a good used kart in race spec ready to go, which is not expensive, considering brand new prices are like 6.5K. In your situation, if no one is buying, but people want to sell, then they have to sell cheap because of the lack of demand. How can a non-interest from the people drive pricing up !? well it doesn't because what you claimed is an average price not a high one. You've gotta take a drive out sometimes up to 5-7 hours away when looking for ths right chassis or engine, been there done that, its all part of the experience. But yes there is a huge lack of numbers for local drivers in canada across the board, either you've got money to compete in the big leagues or kick around with the squirrels on the outskirts of some crummy little town, all the attentjon becomes directed towards who's wallet is largest, it kills the sport and the numbers we could potentially have
Yeah great comment. Tire set for the year? That’s just dangerous. No manufacturer could make a kart tyre last that long due to excessive heat cycles, in one weekend let alone a complete year!
I have been driving karts for a while. Probably 10 years now. There is a way to do it without breaking the bank but that doesn’t not include racing unless you want to race 206. I have a KZ and a Rok Gp I go out and pound laps and that is plenty enough for me. All in my used tag Rok kart was 2k and my shifter 1500$ (granted it was a POS when I bought it) Go to one national event, grab 50 throw aways and you will have tires for life like I do. That’s how you figure out if this sport is for you.
I’ve been karting for 38 years now and both my kids who are 15 are also karting, Costs have gotten so bad recently we haven’t even been to the track once this year in an effort to save money for next year. Practice days have gone up by 50% in the last 2 years at some tracks and I saw Whilton Mill now wants a whopping £75 as a non member for a test day.
At least =in the US, I think property taxes and insurance have made it really hard on track owners. The waivers and rules for rental and owner karts have changed alittle bit.
I know exactly what you mean, here in Canada you have to be willing to put out $100 just to lap for a day ! Then you've got your consumables like fuel, oil, tires, sprockets, chains, which all our suppliers are absolutely jacking prices through the roof on! $40 for a sprocket!? $425 for a set of tires!? its mad
Was done as a kart owner before it really got expensive . I was also lucky that I did double duty as a track marshal ! Was more fun and no shortage of help . Found out in mid 30's was a decent kart racer ! Now 55 and 8 podiums in 9 races . Was at Mosport from 09 - 18 . . The main track offered me a position in 2013 but my love of karting is why I said no . A huge honor to be asked and some days still think I'm stupid for saying no 🤣 . Our winter makes karting a bit cheaper for 5 months of the year ! 4 race weekend left ☹️☃️🇨🇦🏁
Fusion, Strawberry, DHR to name a few are taking the piss on joining fees, it’s down to money and that’s it. Weirdly we are going into cars next year that is more level and less toxic, and cheaper, when a dad turns up in his 918 Porsche, or their £6,7,8 hundred thousand motor homes, 6 engines, tyres at their disposal like buying a 6 pack every 5 mins, I could go on. We can never complete and 95% of the kids spending £100k will never get anywhere.
I think it's terrible that so much talent gets forcibly pushed out of the sport for this reason. I would argue that the best drivers aren't necessarily the ones at the top right now, they're just the best out of the people that can afford it. I've been a part of a few good teams in the past (Evolution/KR Sport/MLC) and they all told me it was well within my abilities to be a front runner one day because of my abnormally fast progression, but we'd always run out of money and have to stop for ages before this would happen. I used to wonder how these people manage to race year after year without end and still be able to turn up in nice cars, motorhomes and so on. It was baffling to me. Now I realize that racing at these levels is just reserved for the wealthy, and money is more important than ability. I think Hamilton's story fed a fantasy for a lot of people about how you can get picked up by a big team even though you're racing on a budget, when in reality this basically never happens. Now as you say people are spending ridiculous amounts to have the very best equipment with the best teams and be out testing every week, such that normal people have no chance, even given the same ability. I find it funny that when these top rotax/x30 drivers go to rental tracks they're usually not overly fast presumably because you can't spend 1000's for an equipment advantage
British champs you now need to buy 4 sets of tyres per meeting…that’s best part of £1000 in tyres….with £3.40 a ltr fuel and oil £30 a ltr…..it’s gotten out of hand
There are some valid points here, but I think one needs to also take a look at how racing, both in Karting and the feeder series model into F1 has come about. In your videos in the past, you noted how karting was an adult sport in the 60's and 70's. Look at F1 and most professional racing at that time and you'll see the the fields were mostly populated by privateer teams. Racers were friends of friends who sometimes cut their teeth in racing tin tops (Jim Clark, anyone?) but were just sometimes rich men with some talent. Move forward in time and the top levels of racing in Europe are significantly filled out with factory or factory-sponsored teams. The day of the "gentleman racer" is largely gone in the pinnacle series. These sorts of teams have created a feeder-path to the top levels out of necessity. So imagining decoupling karting from F1 is likely a fool's errand - you have to have a winnowing of talent to take the path from regional F4>F3>F2>F1. I am tempted to hold up the US racing scene as a comparison, and I KNOW it is quite different from Europe, but it has stayed largely a privateer type of racing, even at the top levels. Karting is comparatively dead in the US with only a few areas of the country showing large turnouts for regular karting events since it isn't considered a stepping stone to much of anything...other than learning how to race. It can still be expensive in the US...but only if you want it to be. So there may be a correlation to the costs and the connection to F1. My 4-stroke budget for a season is probably about $3000 which includes all costs (entry fees, engine work, tires, gas to get to the events, etc.). No - I'm not a winner and mainly fight to be "the best of the rest" but that is where I'm comfy. :)
When I was karting in '99/'00, a season of Super 1 in TKM was around £6k. Not cheap by any means for normal people, but achievable. Were I to now have a child who wanted to make a career in motorsport, I'd get them out of karting as soon as possible and into almost any other budget car series like the junior Ginetta's. The value of switching to larger race tracks, full size cars with gears, suspension, set ups far outweighs any value you'd get from taking karting any further these days.
There's a lot of people making a good living out of karting. They're not going to give their positions up. I've had a Kart for decades, just to roll out on test days for fun. When my lad was young I took a very well to do friend (think somewhere between £10M-£30M worth 15 years ago) to the annual Ace of Clubs meeting, hoping I could pursuade a bit of patronage out of him. At the time he'd decided not to buy a helicopter, not for the purchase cost but for the running costs. He was walking around totting up likely spends in his head and then a parent of one of the juniors rolled up in a helicopter and he started laughing. This guy has loads of classic Jags and Porsches, does the Mille Miglia and he couldn't believe how much people were spending. A few years later I came into contact with a racing dad- his lad has a GP2 win and several seasons in WEC under his belt now, and he was telling me about the time he spent €50,000 on appealing the decision in a kart race( some infringement or other). The mobey in championship level karting is ridiculous
Good video, you forget one very important aspect IMHO. The sheer number of very wealthy kids in the sport who all, as your rightly point out, aim at F1 will have a VERY profound impact on F3 and F2 because these series have a limited number of race seats. If demand and supply will drive prices, which I believe they will, the cost at that level will go up by multiples.
I have been involved with motorsport since 1994 when my dear old father (who is still campaigning a Formula Vee in South Africa at the age of 70) paid for all of it, and the truth about motorsport and its cost is actually very simple: If someone asked you for any class how much does it cost, the only honest answer is : how much do you have. that is the nature of motorsport if you want to be competitive. In 2000 or 2001 there was a class in in SA that ran on road tires for cost reasons. It was cheap, easily available and just great. but, a road tire that is skimmed is quicker than one that is new so first off everyone went and cut off 80-85 % of the rubber. Then they realized that all though the tire brand and make and model are the same,not all tire's are made equal, so some competitors went to the extremes to buy many many many of these cheap tires and then spent hours on the testing track trying to identify the fastest rubber, for the competitive advantage. The same goes for karting, even in the 90's there were people that would go to track with 5 engines to identify the best one. and the same with the tires, and the chassis and everything else you can spend money on in Motorsport. So the only way of really making motorsport affordable is to make the most capitalistic egoistic en-devour know to mankind socialistic and centralize the the engines and the tires and perhaps even the karts and cars and let people pay and to get a centrally maintained kart\car allocated by random for race-days. But even that won;t be cheap, and who would want to pay for something you have no control over? So make peace, if you like cars and you like going fast in them and you want to be first, no matter the discipline, no matter the continent or class, it will take as much cash as you have, or you need to make peace and play around in the middle.
Let me explain A three day event with an average team. £175+VAT per day awning fees You will go through at least 3 sets of tyres in those three days at £600 plus all tyres included. Entries will be around £250 for the three days. Expenses £150-£200 ur own If u hire a mechanic that’s around £600 plus expenses on top of that. Basically nearly £2k for a three day event at a not high level three day event. Something like UKC which is sort of just below British champs. If you do British champs costs go up due to MSUK forcing everyone to buy three sets of tyres every round and you can’t carry them over to the next round let’s say if it’s dry and u haven’t used ur wets in that event. Ian not counting spares here. Suit shoes sticker kits pads rods axles and so on. It’s getting out of control.
I like the old style karts with skinny wheels and a more upright seating position. Things are as expensive as you want to make them. Karts actually should be getting cheaper.
My issue is logistics. I want to run in BPEC prokart and can afford the kart and the kit for pits to run the kart. It's the trailer / van and the storage of it that is my issue. That's a big additional cost and takes up a lot of space I don't have. Additionally, where I live we have quite a few people with MX bikes with vans and trailers and they are CONSTANTLY burgled. Could race with a team but that's an expensive game also. No routes in.
I could write a 20 pages essay about things that does not make sense, but I will give a couple of examples of things that are ridiculous One OTK Nassau panel costs 210 Euros. Probably the cost of the material to produce is around 20 euros. One Rotax anti vibration rubber for the battery costs 23 euros. The cost of material is probably 1 Euro. I get that there’s the cost of R&D, marketing, homologation, etc etc etc, but these prices are an extortion. KG sells a very good quality Nassau Panel for 30 Euros. Why the big brands have to overcharge the spare parts so much? Why to make so difficult for the limited budget drivers to buy the spare parts ?
because they can. same reason why people pay 2000 dollars for a phone or 3500 dollars for a graphics card. because they can. the world has become an experiment by how much they an fleece people. and people just keep buying. i say fleece them. for you... buy a 30 dollar part. screw expensive spares.
@@pachakutimundi6813 the KG 507 (without aero) costs 36 euros at Mondokart. I doubt the aero brings you more than 0.0001 a lap, but that's not my point. The point is that there are parts that are overcharged just because it's from a famous brand or because it looks "cool"
@@kartaroundtheworld thanks, I thought that panel was for the Mini karts. Yeah the price is a huge difference. Even my older brother doesn't remember anymore how much was the M6 bodywork 😅
Im not sure anything has changed. In the mid 70s, Riccardo Patrese and Eddie Cheever spent over $100,000 in a single season karting, almost $600K in todays money. Its always been about rich kids and pay-to-win. Senna raced on the best unobtainable equipment and prep. Even Paul Tracy who claims a modest upbringing had his kart brought to the track in the back of a Rolls Royce. I raced him for years, his early career stories are complete bullshit.(He was a famous wrecker in karting). Wealthy fathers want it this way. Equipment manufacturers live to fleece rich fathers, and the manufacturers have too much influence with FIA. Wealthy people did not get wealthy competing on a level playing field. I even watched paid hitmen knock out a faster racer at the Junior World Championship. As mentioned, a few simple rule changes with a 5 year rule freeze would cut costs by 75% or more overnight. The solution is to regulate karting independent of the FIA, but good luck not getting it to be corrupt because the same issues affected US karting in the 70s-80s and they did not have the FIA. Manufacturers pulled all the strings.
It's not pay-to-win. Rich kids that are generally in the front are always the most talented ones. Some of them you call rich are maybe sponsor money they got because they are so good. You put a poor talented kid in a top team hes still gonna be in the midpack.
@@matijaglasenhardt121 You're right, it takes time to reach the front. The 'rich kids' in the front just have a shit load of track time and experience when they come to racing in the senior category. Talent takes you only 20% of the way, the rest is hard work my friend. I say this from experience...
The average family just doesn't have the disposable income they used to have. The cost of living has skyrocketed. Racing costs have skyrocketed. The general population of kids are more interested in electronic entertainment than actual physical activity. These things are only going to continue to get worse. All types of motorsports will never be what they used to be. Ever.
Don’t blame the kids, almost all kids would much rather do it for real than be on a game. Its just that the game is what is accessible to them. Kids would rather actually race than simrace, if it was remotely affordable for them to do it and we didn’t live in this dystopian hell we find ourselves in. Old generations always blame the young for ‘ruining’ their things, but kids do want to, they’ve just been priced out!
Karting will be going full electric or even more expensive with ecofuel engine. Track owner will be pressure to sale for ecological reasons.. And unfortunately the entire sport will collapse. Its goings to be a logistics nightmare to drive to the kart track you will need an expensive electric car since they want to ban combustion engine in 2035. Probably will need to pay a tax for driving. The future of motor sports is at risk.
You know karting is no longer grassroots motorsport when you start seeing celebrity branded karts. Why do Lando Norris karts exist and who would buy one? I suppose buying a LN kart is just like buying any other LN merchandise, just a lot more expensive.
Check out the GX-UK series. Honda 200cc, 1 set tyres per season. Chassis must be 2018 or older. Be your own mechanic. No big trailers. So it is affordble for everyone.
I started racing as an adult, to het away from sitting in front of computers all day. Luckily there as a strong LO206 class there, ages between 16 and 70. A while season of 12 races cost me about 1000GBP, all in. Lower power = more tyre life. I could race about 4 to 6 weekends with a set of tyres. No meed for rebuilds. We all raced older reused chassis. Eliminate the kids, and the class becomes cheaper. It's the ones that think their kids must have the talent t for F1, no matter what that drive prices upwards. I wish there was the same rule as in Folk racing, where any competitor can forcibly buy your kart for a set price, and you can not refuse.
No. The irresponsibility was people that didn't realise giving children a mainstream sporting platform (ethically questionable, especially looking back with modern eyes) didn't calculate secondary consequences.
Great video. I think entry into Teamsport is fair, once you become a member, yes the parity in karts can be very up n down, however, members nights can be fun,and I feel gaining confidence here then gives you the confidence to do outdoor, once you have done a few outdoor events and realise if you have a talent defiantly look at Club 100, or the NRKL. There are lots of things going on in rental karting which is booming. Good luck to everyone on your journey if just setting out. Expensive hobby?, is it worth it. Fuck yeeeah.
Motorsport will always be expenssive. Also the constant regulation changes and new classes coming and old ones being retired. Higher the level of competition higher the cost goes.
The second FIA got involved it all started going down ward, everything in their mind needs to be focused on F1.
FIA regulated karting from the 70s.
more like children watching silly f1
It’s because of money paid at top level. Every parent thinks their kid is going to be the next F1 driver so they have to have the newest and best equipment for mediocre Johnny to run up front. It’s the same with all professional sports. Top end money motivates. That’s also why the majority of divers are so young. No money or time left in the pot for the dads to just have fun.
Not completely true, I done karting with my son and I never went down that route thinking he's going to be the next F1 driver and theres plenty of parents who are not stupid either. But there is the exceptions, the parents who are mega rich who bleed money out of their arse and there is plenty of them who do believe it and that sets the precedent for other parents to try and give their kids the equipment to keep up.
The problem is also that it is difficult to separate expenses that are needed to be fast vs expenses that are there purely because rich parents pour in ridiculous amounts of money and buy a new kart every race and 15+ engines per seasons etc etc for mediocre Johnny. Besides that it is also a world where people want to show off how much money they have. But face it, karting is always going to be expensive if you want to run up front because costs (spares, damage, fuel, tires, track costs) go up quickly the moment you want/need to start training like 2 days per week.
@@delboy6384 exactly this
Great video! I agree with the idea that karting is expensive because wealthy people want to flaunt they can afford it… However, as someone who raced in the F1 ladder system, I can say there is a practical reason for this excessive spending outside of ego.
When making the transition from karts to cars (let’s say to F4 or Regional F3) your first season budget will range between $350k-1M these days. So from a team’s perspective, it’s a lot of risk to pluck a new kid out of karting who may run out of money halfway through the season, so essentially the spend in karting acts as a proof that the infinite money tap is there or not.
This is why I personally went straight from rental karting to cars because I could develop 90-95% of the skills from “pro” karting for literally pennies on the dollar. Networking was harder ofc, but not impossible.
My mistake was not doing at least some “pro-karting” where I could’ve learned about tire degradation and setup engineering is a safer environment than cars- focusing on learning rather than results.
You're point about karting being a proof of wealth. A harsh reality of motorsport.
Also, don't regret not doing pro level karting. I posit you've got a much better (and more popular) RUclips channel because of direction you took within motosport.
I've recently moved over to racing TKM 115 in the Access Karting paddock. They have an ethos for affordable UK karting and the paddock is growing massively!
Yeaaaaa
It’s been amazing. The GXUK class has 30 karts and you can do a whole season including buying the kart for 3-4k
@@AlexVangeenRacing See you at Ellough 🫡
I remember when I started karting at 9 years old, it was really my brothers and dads interest, I just wanted to drive practice laps, I hated the racing part because frankly other 9 year olds ruined it for me by crashing into me and getting way too competitive. I loved the driving at that age and if one day I open a kart track I wont have a junior category, I'd start the minimum age at 14 and they would be with the adults but under that they can do untimed track day laps only.
I loved the driving but hated being pushed by my dad to be the next NASCAR champion, as I got to 12 and my age group learnt how to not be snotty little shits and actually drive fast then the competition became fun but from a 9 year olds perspective the "Racing" part is hell!
yeah competition isn't for everyone
@@eloped420 The thing is competition is for me, I love it. but when you are 9 its a different story when your parents force you to race before you and any other kid can even drive and then when you don't win your dad becomes Jos Verstappen... now once I learnt how to drive and my age group learnt how to play together then it became fun and by 13 it was a great competition but 9 year olds can't even pass the ball in a footy match yet and parents are pitting them into a kart race it's just a recipe for misery with 9 year olds.
Absolutely love what you wrote.
I'm currently doing my research to start karting at the ripe ole age of 46.
I couldn't dream of running a 2 stroke with the ridiculous rebuild intervals, thank God 4 stroke karts are a thing where I am.
Even then the motor life is bloody ordinary - if people are truly interested in making it affordable why aren't we running detuned motorcycle engines that will do 50,000km or more instead of 75-100hrs.
Do you live in the uk?.
Are you local to A Teamsport venue?.
Here's my advice Brother.
Join teamsport, get some track time indoors, do some outdoor stuff, then when you know your level look at Ckub 100!.
Thank me later.
Ps-your never too old.
Good luck.
I got back into karting some time ago, and 4 stroke prokarts at non MSA tracks is what I ended up doing. I knew a fair bit about karting as I'd got into it in my teens a long time ago, though I never raced...this was back in the the day of direct drive air-cooled motors and no bodywork..and also the Class IV Villiers gearbox class. In my 50s I did a couple of seasons racing before I gave it up as my business had got too demanding on my time for me to be able to spend my spare time enjoying myself racing. I bought a cheap 2nd hand machine and spent very little money - with standardised sealed motors, it meant the only real running costs were fuel and consumables such as tyres, and the odd chain and clutch etc. It wasn't cutting edge fast, but it was informal and fun.
depends what youre budget is but you can run 2 stroke rotax engines at a reasonable cost and they last plenty of hours.
Any sport where someone can outspend others to get an advantage will always have a spiralling costs.
You see it in most sports these day even things that look basic like Tennis.
The complexity of karting has sky rocketed and with that the costs. Big supporter of sealed engine classes, where it comes down to driver, not buying 20 engines and choosing the best one for each track. But then you get the bambino problem, with people paying £5000 for a chainsaw engine because on the dyno it had 0.5 hp more than its competitors
Sealed engines just move the cost the to the chassis. Local LO206 drivers at my track have more money in their chassis and engines then every guy in the shifter class. People will go through 6-7 motors a year just trying to find one that’s barely faster than the other.
@@LetsGoKart the exact same is done with open engines as well. people wanting to spend money of a chassis will do that in every class, but the difference is that sealed engines with homologation chassis classes are cheaper than the alternatives
I think you have neglected to also consider the parents in the criticism - my son was one step away from competing at the national level when he was 12, but mercifully told me on the drive to one practice session, that “he was going off Karting, bored of racing around in circles” - the previous year we spent around £12k on competing, I will never forget hearing in the paddock that ‘this engine’ was for sale and was snapped up by the wealthiest Dad for a whopping £6k ! - for one engine!!
Parents ARE living their lives through kids, we saw first hand the pressure being placed on the kids - with parents spending that crazy amount of money, results matter more than just ‘pride’. We saw it - crying kids and angry parents - at every event. The parents believing that they had the next Button, Hamilton or Norris - was laughable. Parents were equally competing against other parents, buying that must have chassis, 4 sets of tyres per event, special fuel mixes, engines, everything.
I am glad we got out when we did - especially as our son, now 17, stands at over 6’ 3” lol
another thing to note as well is demand
for example, in my neck of the woods (atlantic canada), karting isnt very popular
because of this, many karts that do end up for sale either arent up to race spec (yard kart) or are very pricy.
due to the low demand, prices go up. i saw a ~2009 crg lo206 kart for 3.5k cad, or 1938 pounds, which doesnt sound like a lot but if im not mistaken our minimum wage is lower than gbr
another thing to note as well is that here, most of the population is elderly. this means that theres a lack of young talent supporting the sport at the moment
most people here haven't even heard of karting, its usually either oval or motocross
if i said anything wrong can someone correct me? thanks. this is just from what i am aware of.
Lower demand doesn't create higher prices. Ever.
Atlantic Canada meaning where abouts in Canada? Im in Ottawa, Ontario where we've got tons and tons of classes anywhere from 1-5hours away depending on what you want. Although at my local track, about an hour away and on the quebec side, in briggs senior theres only about 9-12 drivers on a really good day, 7 race championship and the majority of those have seen under 8 drivers per race. 3.5K is about what you pay for a good used kart in race spec ready to go, which is not expensive, considering brand new prices are like 6.5K. In your situation, if no one is buying, but people want to sell, then they have to sell cheap because of the lack of demand. How can a non-interest from the people drive pricing up !? well it doesn't because what you claimed is an average price not a high one. You've gotta take a drive out sometimes up to 5-7 hours away when looking for ths right chassis or engine, been there done that, its all part of the experience. But yes there is a huge lack of numbers for local drivers in canada across the board, either you've got money to compete in the big leagues or kick around with the squirrels on the outskirts of some crummy little town, all the attentjon becomes directed towards who's wallet is largest, it kills the sport and the numbers we could potentially have
@@caluzzucarrazzi5549 how can you be a Canadian and not know what atlantic canada is.
It's because the average person in the UK has gotten poorer.
Just pick a class with low power and straight off the bat you loose the go fast money crowd. And everyone else has the same power.
Rich Dad Formula. Caterham Academy has gone the same way.
How to change? Change the sport rules: one, hard tire set for the year!
Yeah great comment. Tire set for the year? That’s just dangerous. No manufacturer could make a kart tyre last that long due to excessive heat cycles, in one weekend let alone a complete year!
@@Metal05 Dunlop SL1
I have been driving karts for a while. Probably 10 years now. There is a way to do it without breaking the bank but that doesn’t not include racing unless you want to race 206. I have a KZ and a Rok Gp I go out and pound laps and that is plenty enough for me. All in my used tag Rok kart was 2k and my shifter 1500$ (granted it was a POS when I bought it) Go to one national event, grab 50 throw aways and you will have tires for life like I do. That’s how you figure out if this sport is for you.
Yup, I've taken plenty of tyres out of skips over the years
I’ve been karting for 38 years now and both my kids who are 15 are also karting, Costs have gotten so bad recently we haven’t even been to the track once this year in an effort to save money for next year. Practice days have gone up by 50% in the last 2 years at some tracks and I saw Whilton Mill now wants a whopping £75 as a non member for a test day.
Hear hear, track access indeed went up significantly in the Netherlands too past 3 years. Much more than inflation too. Easy moneygrab.
At least =in the US, I think property taxes and insurance have made it really hard on track owners. The waivers and rules for rental and owner karts have changed alittle bit.
It's discusting isn't it.
I know exactly what you mean, here in Canada you have to be willing to put out $100 just to lap for a day ! Then you've got your consumables like fuel, oil, tires, sprockets, chains, which all our suppliers are absolutely jacking prices through the roof on! $40 for a sprocket!? $425 for a set of tires!? its mad
Was done as a kart owner before it really got expensive . I was also lucky that I did double duty as a track marshal ! Was more fun and no shortage of help . Found out in mid 30's was a decent kart racer ! Now 55 and 8 podiums in 9 races . Was at Mosport from 09 - 18 . . The main track offered me a position in 2013 but my love of karting is why I said no . A huge honor to be asked and some days still think I'm stupid for saying no 🤣 . Our winter makes karting a bit cheaper for 5 months of the year ! 4 race weekend left ☹️☃️🇨🇦🏁
Fusion, Strawberry, DHR to name a few are taking the piss on joining fees, it’s down to money and that’s it. Weirdly we are going into cars next year that is more level and less toxic, and cheaper, when a dad turns up in his 918 Porsche, or their £6,7,8 hundred thousand motor homes, 6 engines, tyres at their disposal like buying a 6 pack every 5 mins, I could go on. We can never complete and 95% of the kids spending £100k will never get anywhere.
I think it's terrible that so much talent gets forcibly pushed out of the sport for this reason. I would argue that the best drivers aren't necessarily the ones at the top right now, they're just the best out of the people that can afford it. I've been a part of a few good teams in the past (Evolution/KR Sport/MLC) and they all told me it was well within my abilities to be a front runner one day because of my abnormally fast progression, but we'd always run out of money and have to stop for ages before this would happen.
I used to wonder how these people manage to race year after year without end and still be able to turn up in nice cars, motorhomes and so on. It was baffling to me. Now I realize that racing at these levels is just reserved for the wealthy, and money is more important than ability. I think Hamilton's story fed a fantasy for a lot of people about how you can get picked up by a big team even though you're racing on a budget, when in reality this basically never happens. Now as you say people are spending ridiculous amounts to have the very best equipment with the best teams and be out testing every week, such that normal people have no chance, even given the same ability. I find it funny that when these top rotax/x30 drivers go to rental tracks they're usually not overly fast presumably because you can't spend 1000's for an equipment advantage
British champs you now need to buy 4 sets of tyres per meeting…that’s best part of £1000 in tyres….with £3.40 a ltr fuel and oil £30 a ltr…..it’s gotten out of hand
There are some valid points here, but I think one needs to also take a look at how racing, both in Karting and the feeder series model into F1 has come about. In your videos in the past, you noted how karting was an adult sport in the 60's and 70's. Look at F1 and most professional racing at that time and you'll see the the fields were mostly populated by privateer teams. Racers were friends of friends who sometimes cut their teeth in racing tin tops (Jim Clark, anyone?) but were just sometimes rich men with some talent. Move forward in time and the top levels of racing in Europe are significantly filled out with factory or factory-sponsored teams. The day of the "gentleman racer" is largely gone in the pinnacle series. These sorts of teams have created a feeder-path to the top levels out of necessity. So imagining decoupling karting from F1 is likely a fool's errand - you have to have a winnowing of talent to take the path from regional F4>F3>F2>F1. I am tempted to hold up the US racing scene as a comparison, and I KNOW it is quite different from Europe, but it has stayed largely a privateer type of racing, even at the top levels. Karting is comparatively dead in the US with only a few areas of the country showing large turnouts for regular karting events since it isn't considered a stepping stone to much of anything...other than learning how to race. It can still be expensive in the US...but only if you want it to be. So there may be a correlation to the costs and the connection to F1. My 4-stroke budget for a season is probably about $3000 which includes all costs (entry fees, engine work, tires, gas to get to the events, etc.). No - I'm not a winner and mainly fight to be "the best of the rest" but that is where I'm comfy. :)
When I was karting in '99/'00, a season of Super 1 in TKM was around £6k. Not cheap by any means for normal people, but achievable. Were I to now have a child who wanted to make a career in motorsport, I'd get them out of karting as soon as possible and into almost any other budget car series like the junior Ginetta's. The value of switching to larger race tracks, full size cars with gears, suspension, set ups far outweighs any value you'd get from taking karting any further these days.
i pay $0 for karting and we were out karting for around 5 hours 2 days ago. Perks of 50+% taxes i guess.
There's a lot of people making a good living out of karting. They're not going to give their positions up. I've had a Kart for decades, just to roll out on test days for fun.
When my lad was young I took a very well to do friend (think somewhere between £10M-£30M worth 15 years ago) to the annual Ace of Clubs meeting, hoping I could pursuade a bit of patronage out of him. At the time he'd decided not to buy a helicopter, not for the purchase cost but for the running costs.
He was walking around totting up likely spends in his head and then a parent of one of the juniors rolled up in a helicopter and he started laughing.
This guy has loads of classic Jags and Porsches, does the Mille Miglia and he couldn't believe how much people were spending. A few years later I came into contact with a racing dad- his lad has a GP2 win and several seasons in WEC under his belt now, and he was telling me about the time he spent €50,000 on appealing the decision in a kart race( some infringement or other). The mobey in championship level karting is ridiculous
Good video, you forget one very important aspect IMHO. The sheer number of very wealthy kids in the sport who all, as your rightly point out, aim at F1 will have a VERY profound impact on F3 and F2 because these series have a limited number of race seats. If demand and supply will drive prices, which I believe they will, the cost at that level will go up by multiples.
F3 is already a million euros, F2 you're looking at anywhere from a few million to 10 million euros
I have been involved with motorsport since 1994 when my dear old father (who is still campaigning a Formula Vee in South Africa at the age of 70) paid for all of it, and the truth about motorsport and its cost is actually very simple: If someone asked you for any class how much does it cost, the only honest answer is : how much do you have. that is the nature of motorsport if you want to be competitive.
In 2000 or 2001 there was a class in in SA that ran on road tires for cost reasons. It was cheap, easily available and just great. but, a road tire that is skimmed is quicker than one that is new so first off everyone went and cut off 80-85 % of the rubber. Then they realized that all though the tire brand and make and model are the same,not all tire's are made equal, so some competitors went to the extremes to buy many many many of these cheap tires and then spent hours on the testing track trying to identify the fastest rubber, for the competitive advantage. The same goes for karting, even in the 90's there were people that would go to track with 5 engines to identify the best one. and the same with the tires, and the chassis and everything else you can spend money on in Motorsport.
So the only way of really making motorsport affordable is to make the most capitalistic egoistic en-devour know to mankind socialistic and centralize the the engines and the tires and perhaps even the karts and cars and let people pay and to get a centrally maintained kart\car allocated by random for race-days. But even that won;t be cheap, and who would want to pay for something you have no control over? So make peace, if you like cars and you like going fast in them and you want to be first, no matter the discipline, no matter the continent or class, it will take as much cash as you have, or you need to make peace and play around in the middle.
For 60 quid plus transport I'd get a full day in practising with pro's before their race on the Sunday. Everything was secondhand. 😂 So much fun.
Let me explain
A three day event with an average team. £175+VAT per day awning fees
You will go through at least 3 sets of tyres in those three days at £600 plus all tyres included.
Entries will be around £250 for the three days.
Expenses £150-£200 ur own
If u hire a mechanic that’s around £600 plus expenses on top of that. Basically nearly £2k for a three day event at a not high level three day event. Something like UKC which is sort of just below British champs.
If you do British champs costs go up due to MSUK forcing everyone to buy three sets of tyres every round and you can’t carry them over to the next round let’s say if it’s dry and u haven’t used ur wets in that event.
Ian not counting spares here. Suit shoes sticker kits pads rods axles and so on. It’s getting out of control.
Anyonew able to find or have footage from kartmasters 2001? there was a tv airing of it but cant find it anywhere
Slower karts (more durable tyres, chassis, engines) = cheaper, better racing.
Imagine if newer tyres arent that much faster than older tyres.
I like the old style karts with skinny wheels and a more upright seating position. Things are as expensive as you want to make them. Karts actually should be getting cheaper.
My issue is logistics. I want to run in BPEC prokart and can afford the kart and the kit for pits to run the kart. It's the trailer / van and the storage of it that is my issue. That's a big additional cost and takes up a lot of space I don't have. Additionally, where I live we have quite a few people with MX bikes with vans and trailers and they are CONSTANTLY burgled.
Could race with a team but that's an expensive game also. No routes in.
Come on. These aren't even real cars. They're for kids
I think all motorsport is now dominated by rich daddy ambition .
I could write a 20 pages essay about things that does not make sense, but I will give a couple of examples of things that are ridiculous
One OTK Nassau panel costs 210 Euros. Probably the cost of the material to produce is around 20 euros.
One Rotax anti vibration rubber for the battery costs 23 euros. The cost of material is probably 1 Euro.
I get that there’s the cost of R&D, marketing, homologation, etc etc etc, but these prices are an extortion.
KG sells a very good quality Nassau Panel for 30 Euros. Why the big brands have to overcharge the spare parts so much? Why to make so difficult for the limited budget drivers to buy the spare parts ?
because they can. same reason why people pay 2000 dollars for a phone or 3500 dollars for a graphics card. because they can. the world has become an experiment by how much they an fleece people. and people just keep buying. i say fleece them. for you... buy a 30 dollar part. screw expensive spares.
Do you refer to the KG Nassau panel that has a retro style?
The cheapest with aero is the KR one at 70 or so euros
@@pachakutimundi6813 the KG 507 (without aero) costs 36 euros at Mondokart. I doubt the aero brings you more than 0.0001 a lap, but that's not my point. The point is that there are parts that are overcharged just because it's from a famous brand or because it looks "cool"
@@pachakutimundi6813 and 220 euros to 70 euros it's stil a huge difference ...
@@kartaroundtheworld thanks, I thought that panel was for the Mini karts. Yeah the price is a huge difference. Even my older brother doesn't remember anymore how much was the M6 bodywork 😅
I used to do club 100 but it was too expensive. And to get good you need to pay for every round Fri, Sat & Sun. Worked out at £14k a year.
Coulda bought your own kart and gone very fast with that :)
Im not sure anything has changed. In the mid 70s, Riccardo Patrese and Eddie Cheever spent over $100,000 in a single season karting, almost $600K in todays money.
Its always been about rich kids and pay-to-win. Senna raced on the best unobtainable equipment and prep.
Even Paul Tracy who claims a modest upbringing had his kart brought to the track in the back of a Rolls Royce. I raced him for years, his early career stories are complete bullshit.(He was a famous wrecker in karting).
Wealthy fathers want it this way. Equipment manufacturers live to fleece rich fathers, and the manufacturers have too much influence with FIA. Wealthy people did not get wealthy competing on a level playing field. I even watched paid hitmen knock out a faster racer at the Junior World Championship.
As mentioned, a few simple rule changes with a 5 year rule freeze would cut costs by 75% or more overnight.
The solution is to regulate karting independent of the FIA, but good luck not getting it to be corrupt because the same issues affected US karting in the 70s-80s and they did not have the FIA. Manufacturers pulled all the strings.
@@truantray senna didn't have the best gear when it went 135cc
It's not pay-to-win. Rich kids that are generally in the front are always the most talented ones. Some of them you call rich are maybe sponsor money they got because they are so good. You put a poor talented kid in a top team hes still gonna be in the midpack.
@@AlanDoveKarting Senna was a DAP factory driver in his time, what do you mean he didnt have the best gear?
@@matijaglasenhardt121 You're right, it takes time to reach the front. The 'rich kids' in the front just have a shit load of track time and experience when they come to racing in the senior category. Talent takes you only 20% of the way, the rest is hard work my friend. I say this from experience...
@@eloped420 dap wasn't able to build a quick 135cc at the time.
The average family just doesn't have the disposable income they used to have. The cost of living has skyrocketed. Racing costs have skyrocketed. The general population of kids are more interested in electronic entertainment than actual physical activity. These things are only going to continue to get worse. All types of motorsports will never be what they used to be. Ever.
Don’t blame the kids, almost all kids would much rather do it for real than be on a game. Its just that the game is what is accessible to them. Kids would rather actually race than simrace, if it was remotely affordable for them to do it and we didn’t live in this dystopian hell we find ourselves in. Old generations always blame the young for ‘ruining’ their things, but kids do want to, they’ve just been priced out!
Karting will be going full electric or even more expensive with ecofuel engine. Track owner will be pressure to sale for ecological reasons.. And unfortunately the entire sport will collapse. Its goings to be a logistics nightmare to drive to the kart track you will need an expensive electric car since they want to ban combustion engine in 2035. Probably will need to pay a tax for driving. The future of motor sports is at risk.
thank you very well done!
You know karting is no longer grassroots motorsport when you start seeing celebrity branded karts. Why do Lando Norris karts exist and who would buy one? I suppose buying a LN kart is just like buying any other LN merchandise, just a lot more expensive.
I could do a whole video on that subject!!!
@@AlanDoveKarting Please do!
LN Karts are pretty popular here in Sweden. Don't know why, though. People think they look nice I guess.
Check out the GX-UK series. Honda 200cc, 1 set tyres per season. Chassis must be 2018 or older. Be your own mechanic. No big trailers. So it is affordble for everyone.
I started racing as an adult, to het away from sitting in front of computers all day.
Luckily there as a strong LO206 class there, ages between 16 and 70.
A while season of 12 races cost me about 1000GBP, all in.
Lower power = more tyre life. I could race about 4 to 6 weekends with a set of tyres.
No meed for rebuilds.
We all raced older reused chassis.
Eliminate the kids, and the class becomes cheaper.
It's the ones that think their kids must have the talent t for F1, no matter what that drive prices upwards.
I wish there was the same rule as in Folk racing, where any competitor can forcibly buy your kart for a set price, and you can not refuse.
Everything is expensive right now. Not just Karting/Racing. Paid $9 for a pack of bologna the other day.
3 mates that use Rotax senior karts for practice days is expensive enough.
So its Lewis's fault😂
No. The irresponsibility was people that didn't realise giving children a mainstream sporting platform (ethically questionable, especially looking back with modern eyes) didn't calculate secondary consequences.
10€ per 10 minutes in my country
This footage is sooooo old
The expense of karting has always been relative. How does it compare to full size car racing? It is a LOT cheaper.
Great video.
I think entry into Teamsport is fair, once you become a member, yes the parity in karts can be very up n down, however, members nights can be fun,and I feel gaining confidence here then gives you the confidence to do outdoor, once you have done a few outdoor events and realise if you have a talent defiantly look at Club 100, or the NRKL.
There are lots of things going on in rental karting which is booming.
Good luck to everyone on your journey if just setting out.
Expensive hobby?, is it worth it.
Fuck yeeeah.
Motorsport will always be expenssive. Also the constant regulation changes and new classes coming and old ones being retired. Higher the level of competition higher the cost goes.
go back to hard durable tires. Not only will that lower costs on tires, it will also lower the drive to get every last hp out of the engine.