Frank Turek addresses an internal question within Christianity regarding free will in heaven and its relation to Divine Providence. #Christianity #Theology
Exactly! GOD never interferes with Free Will no matter when or where we are. Only difference now to prevent sin ever to enter Heaven is JESUS will have His scars on His hands.
@@TheHardTruthTV No that is impossible because you will be as Jesus is...perfect. "1 John 3:2, KJV: "Beloved, now are wethe sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall belike him; for we shall see him as he is."
Everyone since the beginning of their existence (including angels) were given a test. The test was whether to worship God or not worship Him. It’s still the same thing today in an individuals life. Humans were the only created thing to be given a chance of redemption. The angels who followed Satan are never given redemption and the angels who followed God remain in His goodness. We were given a part of God (His Breath) the Angels were not given His breath. Of course Angels do not reproduce as we do either. But it does make me wonder why the fallen angels were not given a second chance. It must be the fact that they have actually seen God. I guess I will figure it out later.
I can’t WAIT to get to Heaven, relax into His arms and never, ever, ever have to battle my hideous fallen self again. No more gossiping, wishing schadenfreude on people, being judgy and arrogant, being self-pitying and spiteful, proud and gruesome... I know deep down I have some lovely qualities, but they drown regularly in the sea of my sinful nature. I must drive my Father crazy most days.... Tired of the battle...but still walking....Amen!
I was just telling my self that today Can’t wait till God perfects us and frees us from this body of death like Paul said Meanwhile we must battle this sinful nature everyday in the name of Jesus and with the Holy Spirit
We will have freewill in heaven - in our redeemed state we could sin if we wanted to, but we will be so satisfied and so complete in him that there will be no desire to sin. This would be how our fallen nature is redeemed back into a holy nature
@@str8talks410 We can speculate God's true motive behind it. However I believe we wouldn't truly understand nor would his full true nature would be on display if it didn't happen. You / We would not know truly what holiness, righteousness, obedience, forgiveness, mercy was had we not been through anything.
Shalom Brandt God created heaven and earth, not sin however. A specific creature created sin! NOT God. Because SIN breaks Gods moral law. God cannot break his own moral laws, because the moral law is a reflection of Gods character. Therefore God cannot sin against itself. e.g. Can God destroy himself ? Can God create Sin? God can't do the logical impossible. May the living God's limitless love shine upon you and your loved ones every day. May the grace of our God and saviour Jesus Christ be with all its people.
Not really a "good one" for question. I personally don't want to live in a world where there are no choices and every one is a love robot. My wife makes a choice each day to love me and I the same. I foster and feed that love she has for me. I have seen people raise their children with absolutely zero choices and control them to the point their children are total messes when faced with any adversity they have to face on their own.
Taking to account of Satan choosing to rebel against God which caused him to be thrown out along with the angels that joined them. Yes you will have free will in heaven.
The best thing to do with your free will: Confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus. Believe in your heart that God has raised him from the dead and you will be saved! (Romans 10:9) Christ makes life INCREDIBLE!!!
I’m not sure what you consider awful, but my life is very blessed. I have love and joy in my heart, peace of mind, I’m not addicted to drugs or alcohol, I’m not running from the police, I have a good relationship with my neighbors and it’s all because I’m following the teachings of Christ. Statistically, people who live by the teachings of Christ are the most giving, most humanitarian, most charitable people in the world. I don’t know if u consider yourself an atheist, but because they have no objective moral standard, they have no means by which to quantify what makes life good or awful. Survival of the fittest is the default so you don’t see atheists feeling compelled to do as much good in the world. Choose Christ.
Mike Well as Christians, we are constantly in a process of denying are flesh or sinful desires, which urges us to constantly please ourselves. You may say that because humans naturally do what they can to always feel comfortable. I don't have to help others, I don't need to challenge people's thinking, I subscribe to my own opinions, and I do whatever it takes to please myself. Until we get to Heaven we will always be tempted to please ourselves instead of being selfless, confrontational, promoting truth instead of pursuing happiness because we are still human. But that's where a Christ comes in. Jesus knew that we couldn't reach for righteousness on our own.
The gospel is the GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM! Repent and believe the gospel! Follow Jesus’ teachings! Jesus is going to return and set up the kingdom of God ON THE EARTH! God’s government ON THE EARTH! The Messiah will resurrect his people! The destiny of the Messiah and his people is to be ON THE EARTH! The renewed restored earth! God also dwelling with them! Rev 21 Jesus said the Father is the only true God! John 17 3 And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent. RSV Only-monos God-theos Monos theos Monotheism The Father Jesus is the one sent by the true God (the Father)! Jesus never claimed to be God, Jesus said he has a God! Jesus has a God! Jesus died! God can’t die! God raised Jesus from the dead!
@@tomchrist695 Temptation can come from outside as well. People are social so can't be 100% internal. Plus the bible mentions people leading others into sin, for example Adam and Eve.
Minato Arisato Adam and Eve were different before the fall. They had free will in the sense they could choose between good and evil. I am not sure how I would describe their temptation, but I can say from James 1 that for post fall humanity, we are carried away by our own evil desires. Yes, there may be other stimuli outside of me, but it’s ultimately my sinful desires that lead me to indulge in them. When Israel had prophets, they talked about how their leaders were leading them into evil, but that did not excuse those who followed. Both parties were responsible. Not to mention the fact there was always a remnant of people who followed the Lord rather than the foolish leadership.
Apple Core I don’t know the meaning of that colloquialism, but the answer you search for is in Romans 9. It basically asserts that God did it show His glory, which is His primary purpose in all things, and it is His right as Creator to do this.
Good question, and one I've not thought about much until recently. . My thoughts are these: . 1) Will we have free will in heaven? Yes, but our will at that point will be totally in line with God's will. . 2) Why didn't God make our will totally in line with his will to begin with? God didn't want robots. . 3) Is all the suffering and chaos of the world throughout history "worth" the cost of a person's will becoming naturally, freely, in line with God's will? Yes, because otherwise God is unjust. . I think our friend in this video is wise to think about things like this because at the core he's really asking, "Why did God create people in the first place?" I believe the answer is, "To glorify God and to be an object of his love." That's a tough thought for modern audiences to swallow though, because it totally subjects us to God as his creation. . The closest analogy I can think of is a child asking his parents, "Why did you have me?" The best answer I have is that we want children to show love toward. But we don't want them to be unquestioning robots. We want them to be free to choose to love us. Love freely given is the most precious thing there is! Even though I know some day my child may make terrible choices and suffer greatly because of those choices, that doesn't mean I don't want to have a child. Just so with God. Even though he knew we would sin and suffer, he wanted to create us nonetheless show he could show us his incomparable love. The redeemed person is the one who has freely submitted to God out of love, and once that redemption is completed at the end of time, we will be what we were always meant to be from the beginning. . In short, this "trial thru fire" that we call the Fall and the Redemption (aka "life") is necessary to make us who we were meant to be: free beings who want nothing more than to love God with all our heart, soul, mind, and strength. That couldn't happen if God created us as robots from the start. . Not a perfect analogy, but those are my thoughts on the matter for now. Always interested to hear what others think.
The only way a silversmith would know if it's pure and free of ores, is if it reflects back his image when he looks into it. The only way a potter knows the porcelain is ready is when he flicks it, it sings back to him. All the trials we believers go through are nothing but purification until we reflect the glory of image in His Son, our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.
Ahaaa . I agree would conclude as much . It follows logically with the three revealed characters of God , all just all knowing and all loving. A being such as that would have to take this path if He truly wanted autonomous objects of His love . 👍🏾
But the point of the question was, why create the conditions leading to evil in the first place? If the end game is a world full of everything we need and no conditions that would lead to evil, why not create that scenario in the first place? If you say god didn't want robots, then won't we be robots in heaven? If you don't create the conditions for evil in the first place, there wouldn't be a point of reference of course, but there also wouldn't be suffering and hardship. Which would you rather have? The way it works now, billions of god-created souls will suffer eternally due to conditions that he created.
@@Safetyman99 No we will not be robots in heaven. If God loves us then he must give us the whole show so that we FREELY choose him. If you are born without free will then its not love. But if you are born with the option to choose God or reject Him , then choosing Him will be free decision out of love. Nobody suffers eternally because of the conditions of free will because we all CHOOSE. Nobody forces us to commit evil or good. Nobody forces us to choose God or reject Him. But the consequences will follow. Anybody that rejects God and Jesus is not doing so out of ignorance .
ANOTHER answer to this question (that I've heard someone say), is that after this life, we will be the way WE FREELY CHOSE to be - people who's will is in harmony with GOD'S will. In other words, in THIS life, when we truly give our lives to our Lord Jesus, we can look forward to eternal life with the freedom FROM our formerly rebellious will. So, yes, we WILL have free will - we will be ACTUALIZED in the choice we had freely made while we were in this life: the choice to live in harmony with God's will. Anyway, that's part of how *I* see it. I can always learn MORE though, on this subject...
LoveYourNeighbour Yes! The Will itself will be freed from self-serving. I think the guy asks the wrong question. I think he’s really wanting to know ‘will we still be tempted or deceived?’ Because Adam and Eve, their wills, would not have chosen to sin had they seen the consequences. So in heaven will it be possible to make the wrong choice? That’s the question. And no, we don’t worry about that bc satan will be cast away forever. No tempter, no temptation. He says in the video he was challenged about this by an atheist. Well yes unbelievers worry about such a thing because they can’t imagine life without sin and temptation. They think ‘what fun would that be? I would soon be partying and stealing harps! But they have not experienced a new heart and a new mind in which loving God is the greatest experience.
@@meleshenko3767 LOL, you wrote that some people think "what fun would that be" (to not do evil). Well, GEE... I can't think of anything MORE fun, than enjoying close, sincere, loving relationships with others, while enjoying God's glorious paradise, forever. But you know what the MOST fun thing will be?? Our close relationship with GOD - the very SOURCE of our existence, the SOURCE of all beauty, etc, etc, etc. And guess what?? We will NEVER reach the end of exploring and discovering His depths!! Because we will ALWAYS be limited, finite, created beings. But only GOD is all-knowing & infinite. No words I write here, can fully describe the "fun" that awaits us. Nuff said.
@@applecore8978 ??? The alternative, is perfect justice. Those who's sins are NOT freely paid for, will get the exact degree of punishment in hell, that they deserve, for what they've done, and who they've become. No more, and no less. "God will repay EACH person according to what they have done" (Romans 2:6), "EACH person was judged according to what they had done" (Revelation 20:13). God, the perfect judge will carry out the exact degree of punishment that every individual sinner deserves, for "the servant who knows the master’s will and does not get ready or does not do what the master wants will be beaten with MANY BLOWS. But the one who does not know and does things deserving punishment will be beaten with FEW BLOWS" (Luke 12:47,48).
Apple Core: Assume there is a God and he made you. Now you can ask for what you want the most...What is it? (I know you could make a lot of jokes here but try to resist 🙂). I thought about this question a lot what is it that mankind wants most? To make his own choices! To have a degree of autonomy without which we would not even be individuals. This is exactly what we were given. The hypocrisy of saying ‘God does not give us real choice’ is a glaring one. The only way you would end up in eternal torment it’s by choosing it. The other choice is eternal glory love peace and inexpressible joy. But the argument goes, ‘I couldn’t possibly enjoy that unless God removed my free will and then I would be an automaton and a slave.” The error is not knowing that peace love and inexpressible joy are desirable things. People want to believe they can produce these things eternally for themselves but we can’t. We can’t and it is the very thing we cherish the most - our free wills - that demonstrate that to us. before we know Christ we can only imagine being approved by him through having our wills enslaved. It is the opposite. Actually the competition between desiring free will and desiring eternal reward ends - and surprise- we get BOTH! We get to choose for ourselves and the reward is unimaginable fulfillment. No my friend, God is not a monster. Far from it. Scenario One: Give me the car keys I want to drive! But you’re only five. I should have the car keys because I want them. No go to your room. You’re a monster and I’m a slave and I hate you! Scenario Two: Give me the car keys I want to drive! But you’re only five. I should have the keys because I want them. OK well...make good choices. I wrecked the car and broke my legs and it’s all your fault for letting me drive! I hate you! Scenario three: Sixteenth birthday, new Mazerati, no broken legs. OK that’s a really lame metaphor but I made it up on the fly. I would never give a 16-year-old a Mazerati. But you get the point. 🙂
If God so decides to take away my ability to choose against him im heaven, I'm fine with that given the utter destruction that we've caused as a result of our selfish choices. Otherwise, we would all end up like the 1/3 of angels, eternally damned.
If this is something that you would personally be okay with, would you be fine with God creating us without the ability to sin in heaven, being born there from the start. Since the ability to sin is not worth it based on the selfish choices that has caused destruction and suffering and ultimately leave us the chance to be eternally damned, for that we do not of what not we know? In my opinion, if I was given the illusion of freewill so that it could be that I did not have the ability to cause awful things to happen and that I would be with God forever, instead of in hell. Why couldn't that be the status quo? I would want to maximize the amount of happiness and perhaps someone wanted to risk their existence with God by asking Him for freewill, like say at the beginning of our life or something? I don't think anyone wants to go to hell, but most people want to be free, or at least feel as if they are. So why not give us the chance to assure our life with God rather than rolling the die on whether or not we will live a good life, since a lot of factors at play could derail us and then we'd be fallen forever. You know?
@@Golden_Red_Panda the reason for this is pretty simple. If you didn't have free will, actual free will, you couldn't know love and happiness. Without pain and suffering, you can't know happiness and pleasure. We are all given the choice, love or despair.
I love what Frank said, "When you have children you're creating the possibility for them to do evil". God essentially did the same with us. Your child can grow up to murder thousands of people. Will it be your, the parent's, fault? Did you force him to do it? No. Free will. God had his purposes for starting this whole ordeal, and we will find out why one day, when we die and go to Heaven (if we believe).
@@mitchellc4 John 8:18-19, 24 - I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me. Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also. [24] I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins. The context is the Father, and Jesus is saying that if you don't believe that He is God the Father then you will die in your sins. You should believe that the Father is in Jesus and that Jesus is in the Father (AKA one person).
@@mitchellc4 God will not set a kingdom on earth. No where in scripture does it this false doctrine. Jesus finished what he was sent to do, John 17:4 and in John 19:30 Jesus said "it is finished". God's eternal plan was Christ's Church Ephesians 3:10-11. The Church is His kingdom. Now Rev 20:4 does not say a 1000 year reign OF Christ BUT WITH Christ and that's a big difference. Rev is a symbolic book in which people twist for their own destruction and are cursed Rev 22:18-19. God bless
If parents knew that having sex from Sunday- Friday will produce kind and law abiding people I’m sure the overwhelming majority will not have sex on Saturday for fear of producing mass murderers. God on the other hand is powerful omniscient omnipotent and the creator of the universe from nothing but seems incapable of creating heaven in the first place. So the example you gave there doesn’t make sense
not exactly since the parents have a role in rearing, teaching, and giving a good environment for the child. Which God does through His church, His commandments, and His example as Jesus Christ
Well god knows everything that is going to happen to us, but our parents don’t. God knows that we are gonna go to hell but he still created us. If I knew for sure that my kid is going to be a murderer then i wouldn’t hade had any kids.
C79 like your humor style AND I'd stick with it you COULD have a career because I DON'T just bust a giggle out ( EVER) reading these ( well NOT ever lol) ANYHOW you just put a grin on my chin man lol
Well, his time is clearly limited at the microphone. He was smart enough to realize at all points whenever Frank started to answer that Frank truly wasn’t understanding his question. He just wanted to make sure he could get the question across to Frank before he ran out of time. I get it.
The gospel is the GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM! Repent and believe the gospel! Follow Jesus’ teachings! Jesus is going to return and set up the kingdom of God ON THE EARTH! God’s government ON THE EARTH! The Messiah will resurrect his people! The destiny of the Messiah and his people is to be ON THE EARTH! The renewed restored earth! God also dwelling with them! Rev 21 Jesus said the Father is the only true God! John 17 3 And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent. RSV Only-monos God-theos Monos theos Monotheism The Father Jesus is the one sent by the true God (the Father)! Jesus never claimed to be God, Jesus said he has a God! Jesus has a God! Jesus died! God can’t die! God raised Jesus from the dead!
I think the real reason why so many interruptions occur (at least with the so-called "experts") is not because people are trying to specifically talk over others (even though some do that), but because they want to avoid any miscommunications. Turek does this all the time when he brings up an abstract concept or explanation - sometimes the answers or questions are under defined or vague that he wants to avoid any miscommunications. Same thing in relationships - Interruptions MUST occur if both parties want their needs met. Miscommunication when it comes to philosophical conversations are so common that many people within these fields frequently interrupt THEMSELVES (including Turek) to make sure that the terms they are using are clearly defined, because chances are that we all see things about life from different perspectives.
The gospel is the GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM! Repent and believe the gospel! Follow Jesus’ teachings! Jesus is going to return and set up the kingdom of God ON THE EARTH! God’s government ON THE EARTH! The Messiah will resurrect his people! The destiny of the Messiah and his people is to be ON THE EARTH! The renewed restored earth! God also dwelling with them! Rev 21 Jesus said the Father is the only true God! John 17 3 And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent. RSV Only-monos God-theos Monos theos Monotheism The Father Jesus is the one sent by the true God (the Father)! Jesus never claimed to be God, Jesus said he has a God! Jesus has a God! Jesus died! God can’t die! God raised Jesus from the dead!
He was asking a good question, Turek just didn’t know how much he understood about the Bible and free will etc, so he was trying to create a foundation for the conversation. But he was trying to skip Tureks foundation and get to a deeper question “what’s the need for redemption if there won’t even be evil in heaven?”
We will want for nothing because we will have no need for things that cause Evil actions or even ideas to do evil things. We will be beautiful, powerful, immortal, rich beyond our imaginations, we wont have any worries in our lives like getting sick or dying, or having to pay bills, Heaven is free our homes are free, will we work? Yes, but it wont be something we dont like, it will be more like doing our favorite hobby but in a way that benefits others as well. There just wont be any real reason or motivation to freely desire to do something evil considering it would get you kicked out of the very place that gave you all these priceless treasures for no cost.
Darth Bane Well, I'll say the pleasures of Heaven are not a deterrence to evil because in Heaven we'll be so far beyond evil. It'll be a faint, distant memory.
Not.enough to.go.around One third of something equals out to 1 out of every 3 of that thing. If one third of 9 baseballs are blue, then 1 out of every 3 is blue. They equal the same amount.
Some people are anarchists and refuse structure, rules and order. They want to be their own masters, do whatever they want the way they want it, even if its detrimental to others. If good sensible parents have 3 children, 1 turn ungrateful, reject the parents' authority, leave the house to end up in the street and mess with other people's lives, is this a good choice? God didn't want a creation of puppets, it's why free will is part of the mix. 1/3 of angels chose to rebel against the structure in place, but 2/3 remained faithful. You can question why a minority left but you should also question why the majority stayed.
The whole "Difference between Innocence and Redemption" thing reminds me of this Skyrim quote: “What is better? To be born good or to overcome your evil nature through great effort?”
@@frederickfairlieesq5316 I’m not God, so I don’t know his motives, but I’d guess he wants to live in eternity with people that choose to love him. Maybe he didn’t want to be a puppet master. Creating beings that have no choice but to follow him seems kind of pointless.
@@frederickfairlieesq5316 Well if God created this whole universe with so much complexity and accuracy that every scientist and doctors know, and yet you still didn't feel his existence, then if he bring heaven down to earth you will still be an atheist.
@@frederickfairlieesq5316 1. The signs are cristal clear that God exists. 2. What do you want from God in order to have relationship with him, knowing that you aren't equal and you are the one who needs him.
Wow. So I just had same question literally 1 day ago and an answer appeared few moments after prayer My question was : if God is all powerful why He couldn't have created a world where love and freewill exist without the penalty of sin and death? As such the answer was, the creation process was only done on the cross, when Jesus paid for our sins and He said "it is finished" (we are only the 7th day), if you notice in Genesis the 7th day is not closed with morning and night. So yes, God do perfectly create that final sinless state where love and freewill can still exist. Finalized by the attoning sacrifice of Jesus You have to notice when the scripture wrote 1 Peter 1:19-21 "according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to be obedient and to be sprinkled with the blood of Jesus Christ. May grace and peace be multiplied to you. but with the precious blood of Christ, like that of an unblemished and spotless lamb. He was foreknown before the foundation of the world but was revealed in these last times for you." 1 Peter 1:2, 19-20
True. Because God has already prepared the way back to Life, man must freely choose to access and appropriate it, ot go on in their own rebellion and self- righteousness, and face destruction. It's their choice.
I think somehow God has it all figured out. I don't think it's because we won't have something tempting us rather I think our hearts, minds and spirits will be renewed. There are angels that are aware of good and evil and have never chosen evil or sinning. I think it will be like that, whatever that is. No one really knows but I think it has something to do with our choice to obey God
shantor100 I mean just think about Isaiah at the throne room! This was a Holy man of God who is transferred to the thrown room of God and the presence of God is just so bright and Holy that even the angels cover their feet and eyes! So Holy that even Isaiah being a fairly good son of God was ashamed of his words! He says, “Mourn for me; I’m ruined! I’m a man with unclean lips, and I live among a people with unclean lips. Yet I’ve seen the king, the Lord of heavenly forces!” And all the angels are saying in His presence is, “Holy, holy, holy is the Lord of heavenly forces! All the earth is filled with God’s glory!” So with all that in mind, we will know how unclean we were in the presence of a Holy God and never want to turn back. Our attention will eternally be fixed on Him and we will eternally be in awe of the everlasting God.
I agree and i think God has allowed the fall to happpen etc. So that we can learn what sin is in this life and the consequences of it. I know through many of my sins I have learnt to deeply hate them and I don't want to ever make those sins again. I compare it to a kid with homework. Sometimes a kid will do their homework simply because they are told they must because they don't want to get into trouble rather than because he/she wants genuinely to do their homework. God wants us to choose him and obey him because we want to, because we desire goodness and hate sin and want to be freed from it. Not just because we feel we must. He wants us to have a deeper understanding of how bad sin is by experiencing the consequences.
When we hide His word(Will) in our hearts, it helps us not to sin Psalm 119:11, then gradually our mind is renewed as we daily study the scriptures Romans 12:2; Ephesians 4:23-32, that also helps us to walk in the Spirit, and shines us back into the way when if and when we stray. That enables us to daily put off the old man, while putting on the new man; and if we continue, it will be wasy to be changed to the glorious body as of Jesus Christ for as He is in heaven, so are we in this world- just continue till the end. 1John 4:17.
Ghost In The Shell's The Laughing Man Jesus’s heart was to be one with The Fathers Will and that’s how we are to be too. In full submission to God because in our “individuality” we can easily walk astray on our own path sinning and identifying with that sin. Jesus came to save the captives but if we are captive to sin and hold onto sin (which someone can say is their personal identity) then they can never be saved from the prison that this sin creates. Aside from that, there is individuality in our talents and the gifts God has given to His children. We all come together to make up The Body of Christ and that’s a beautiful thing WHEN we are doing it in Gods will and not our own selfish/prideful ways.
Ignorance can be very costly. "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge " Thus, "With all your getting, get understanding ...buy wisdom and sell it not..."
Were never going to understand the mind of God fully. I don't know exactly why God chose to create humans the exact way he did. But he's God and he is good and he was able to make the choice to create beings to give them the ability to freely love Him. God doesn't owe anybody an explanation as to why he created the world. He created it if you gave us a chance to choose him and even when we didn't he gives us the chance for Redemption. This guy is asking really good question as to why couldn't Heaven be the original set up - and Frank has a good answer. In heaven we are redeemed. We will have been given glorified bodies. And we will be in the presence of God and there will be no need for sin, pain, hunger etc If God made Heaven the setup from the start then we wouldn't have been creatures given Free Will and the ability to choose him.
@@MichealQuinm Oh wait I misunderstood your question. I think we could argue that He did do that with the Garden of Eden- but then Adam and Eve still sinned.
I had the same thought/question when I was living my sinful life . We desire things of this world and it was hard to imagine living somewhere with limited choices . The truth is the choices aren't limited in heaven . In heaven we would have zero flaws and needs . It wouldn't even be a option to sin in the new world .
@@PHILHAMILT0N sin is a choice . If the choice to do something wrong does not exist then it's logical to not have sin . It's our body's on earth they cause us to sin . Sex money and power . Imagine if you don't need any of that because you have everything you can imagine
@@PHILHAMILT0N free will will exist but we will have a wisdom and glorified body that makes us not to ever sin. Why do people sin ? Money sex drugs , power. If you don't need any of that in heaven , then , what will motivate someone to sin . In heaven we will have the nature of Christ in us . That along with the wisdom and love of God around is at all time .
@@dsanti4069 "Body makes us not to ever sin" - this means no free will to sin. Don't get me wrong. I see this as a great thing. "Free will" is definitely not the good thing that many proclaim it to be. In "heaven" glorified men are in subjection to God (1 Corinthians 15:28) and slaves of God (Revelation 22:4). But BECAUSE of the glorified body, the motive of power simply isn't there.
He links free will to sin. Actually he seems to equate free will to sin. As in he does not understand that free will can exist without sin. But still his question just seems to be IF we can make a choice to sin, then how can it be that there will never be a choice to sin in heaven. Sin is missing the mark of perfection that is God. So why could God not have created the end without the beginning basically. If there will exist a system that humans can live in and have free will and not sin then why could that not have been the first state? The answer given is that the first state was one of innocence and the second state was one of redemption. And being in innocence without a possibility of sin is less perfect than being redeemed without a possibility of sin. So God to make us more like Him and to truly make us his children had to allow this system to play out. At least i think thats the question and answer if the guy had given his own question more thought and allowed for the answer to be fully expressed.
Phillip Sardinha “And being in innocence without the possibility of sin is less perfect than being redeemed without the possibility of sin.” So redeemed man in heaven will be even more perfect than God himself who never sinned (innocent) and cannot sin? Or are you trying to say that the reason God is so perfect now is because he did sin and was himself redeemed by some greater God, thus now we must reach this new level of perfection to be perfect enough? (btw I’m just using you’re terminology and line of reasoning for the sake of argument bc there’s no such thing as less perfect, there’s just perfect or not perfect; else how “less perfect” does one have to become before they’re no longer perfect? Perfect meaning-1. having all the required or desirable elements, qualities, or characteristics; as good as it is possible to be. Or, 2. absolute; complete.) You said, “Sin is missing the mark of perfection that is God.” And, “So God to make us more like him and to truly make us his children had to allow this system to play out.” Again, if going through a process of redemption from a fallen state is superior to never falling in the first place then either God fell and was redeemed himself or redeemed man is “more perfect” than God. “...free will can exist without sin.” False. To lack a faculty by which one could disobey a command rather than obey it is to lack free will. Will by definition is: “the faculty by which a person decides on and initiates action.” Free will would be the ability to decide on and initiate actions whether or not they line up with another entity’s will. Hence “free” as in to do whatever is decided upon by one with said will. Therefore if this faculty is still free to use freely in heaven then for all of eternity man would be capable of committing the same sin of pride as satan. And whoops gotta start all over.
@@gracebrown3074 I believe God allowed this fall so that our love could be perfect, as in literally cannot get any better(stronger). Otherwise it would be like a rich, spoiled kid who takes what they have for granted and don't realize what they have if they never lose it. When we do get to that sinless state, the love and appreciation will be infinitely better than if we were always in a sinless state because we wouldn't understand what it meant to be without it.
@@ta13s93 Actually I think you can have free-will without sin, I believe that the knowledge of Good and Evil itself is natural, its just that the physical abuse of the knowledge of Evil is the problem... IE Sin ;D
The gospel is the GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM! Repent and believe the gospel! Follow Jesus’ teachings! Jesus is going to return and set up the kingdom of God ON THE EARTH! God’s government ON THE EARTH! The Messiah will resurrect his people! The destiny of the Messiah and his people is to be ON THE EARTH! The renewed restored earth! God also dwelling with them! Rev 21 Jesus said the Father is the only true God! John 17 3 And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent. RSV Only-monos God-theos Monos theos Monotheism The Father Jesus is the one sent by the true God (the Father)! Jesus never claimed to be God, Jesus said he has a God! Jesus has a God! Jesus died! God can’t die! God raised Jesus from the dead!
@@ta13s93 i can only imagine that all of sin exists and God being omni- everything must know more than creation. Man, angel, etc. Do you think the fall of lucifer or man was beyond the scope of God because He has never sinned? What about any sin? Ill presume you would answer that knowledge and aspect of existence (a sinful fallen state) is completely apart from God. While I add that it still something that God being greater encompasses in the grander realm of Omni- that is God. But innocent man knows nothing until the fall. The spark of the thought manifesting in an action of disobedience against your Supreme Creator. But the knowledge and eventual journey to salvation amd redemtpion I say is a Better state than the state of innocence. But isnt innocent created man 'good' as defined by God? Yet still it is better to be elevated to child of God redeemed with a new body to live in house of the Lord. So i hope that explains my more perfect line, i know the definition doesn't allow for it...yet i dont see how infinity can be greater than infinity but still it is
@@mitchellc4Mark 12:28-31 The Great Commandment 28 And one of the scribes came up and heard them disputing with one another, and seeing that he answered them well, asked him, “Which commandment is the most important of all?” 29 Jesus answered, “The most important is, ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one. 30 And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’ 31 The second is this: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.”
His main concern was that with the fall of Satan, having free will and being in Gods glory (meaning no need for anything), fell from heaven, why will it be different for humans when we are in heaven with God? If there is free will cant we make the same choice satan did? Franks answer that "we arent fulfilled here and will be there" doesnt QUITE suffice given the fall for satan, though it id say because we have tasted sin and rebellion from God, that we wouldnt want to go down that road again because were with God. we dont have to ask the "what if" question like satan did because we had "what if" here. that was the point of us falling. we tasted sin so we dont gotta taste it again. PLUS God knows what will happen and we will have free will in heaven and he wont let anyone in who would have that flight risk of going dark. thats the purpose of having true hearts for God on earth, and not just claiming him with out mouth.
Quad Tucker We all run into that question eventually: If the angels fell will we not also have the possibility of falling? Thanks for your answer. Yes, we are creatures who’ve known both states experientially: Having been separated from him, having been united with him. Satan thought he could become like God and rise to the throne. But we’ve had demonstrated to us that we are creations and the throne belongs only to God. All our effort to refute it end in suffering and disaster. We won’t entertain that delusion bc we already ran that course and ended up on our knees in humility. When unbelievers ask why a loving God would give free will to us knowing we could die from it - this is why! Satan had exactly what they seem to be wanting: He had free will plus eternal reward and he never had to fall and suffer. That ended badly wouldn’t you say? In an allegorical sense Satan is the Judas of heaven. Judas’ betrayal was the avenue to the sacrifice that redeemed the rest. Likewise, Satans fall and all the failure it produced brings us to realize that God alone is God and we are not. Thus the first temptation was to believe we could rise up and take the throne! A repeat of what Lucifer tried in heaven. At this point we are asked why would God have made Lucifer and Judas to begin with? Isn’t that cruel? He knew they would fall but they did not have to. Just like you. Everything, every argument, every doubt, only leads to the question: What will YOU do with free will? Will you fight God for the throne or bow?
I love that you use the term ‘flight risk’ lol bc that’s what we fear isn’t it? We’re afraid we’ll be a flight risk, we won’t be stable, we’ll fail. Jesus provided everything to prepare us for life and for heaven so that we don’t have to suffer FOFR.
I like the point he made about a difference between the “innocent” creation in the beginning (Adam and Eve) contra the “redeemed” creation (Christians) entering heaven. The difference being that we as the redeemed followers of Christ now know that life with God is sufficient and includes everything we’ll ever need (Relationship with him that is) which is why we’ll never turn away from God.
@Robert Borg do you have free-will in Heaven? Do you have individual imagination? Do you just sing and praise forevermore? What happened to the New Heavens and New Earth? I'll let you think on this ;D
Ghost In The Shell's The Laughing Man I am excited for the New World/Earth. We would have vastly increased intelligence and can teleport and go through walls. I am serious, this is a proper eschatological doctrine. But most importantly, to witness the beatific vision.
@@thelogiclockedwithinhuman8285 Yep...our bodies with time will become dust, surely you don't believe that our bodies thousands of years later " reforms " to the original state...there's nothing but dust and specks of bones. So, what's going to heaven ? nothing...because our " soul " IS THE BRAIN...it will rot and fade away, look at people with dementia....they are living dead, a walking corpse with no mind. dementia killed the brain functions, goodbye" soul "....
I guess my answer if I was asked this would be... 1. In order for us to choose God we would need to have the option of sin... 2. By experiencing this fallen world we have the option to choose between redemption (giving up our sins to be with God) 3. So if we did no longer have the capability of sin in heaven, then it would be something we elected to have done, and that would be the free will. 4. In conclusion, only by being in the fallen earth and experiencing sin are we allowed the free will to CHOOSE between God and that sin. Hope that is helpful
Kinda make sense! I always wonder if all these SAGA of sending Christ to die for us is necessary? Like why not the future heaven state where sin does not exist from the start? I thought that God was unwise to create a being so vulnerable to sin! But based on your theory, it seems like it is necessary for humans to sin, in order to get to the future Heaven where sin no longer exist
I don't know if he is necessarily asking to understand, but rather to have some response of opposition without even really listening. Pride. Only Jesus can save. Glory to God
I get his point completely, now that being said I still recognize I'm a sinner and need and accept Jesus as my saviour in my life, but also understand that all my questions cant completely be answered here. I trust that God will make it completely clear when we're with Him. Praise the Lord. Our Redemption draws nigh!!!! WOOOOOOO HOOOOOO!!!!!
This was a good answer by Frank. The young man seemed to be interested in pinning the consequences of sin on God, rather than recognizing how humanity chooses sin. The example of innocence versus redemption is the key. Only through personal transformation, the indwelling spirit, do fallen beings understand and choose (can choose) what is best - which is God's will. Innocent beings have no understanding of this, but still retain the capacity to choose things for their lack of foresight. To say, why didn't God make it so that human beings started off right away with the ability to love perfectly is a contradiction. It would require that God imbue Adam and Eve with all knowledge of good and evil but no forward-moving experience to back up their ability to make choices. In essence, they would be God themselves. So, keeping all that in mind, I think that sums it up, lol.
Very well organized, clear and concise. I also would like to add: Ephesians 6:12 For our wrestling is not against flesh and blood, but against the principalities, against the powers, against the world-rulers of this darkness, against the spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places. 2 Thessalonians 2: 9-13 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. 13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
@@MrShaiya96 The only thing I can answer to that is how angels are not made in the image of God. They are not image-bearers like we are. The apostle Paul even writes that "we will judge angels someday" which would imply authority with God as co-leaders over the eventual New Heavens and New Earth. God will dwell among His creation and His creation will dwell with Him in completedness. The angels are not afforded this same prize or reward.
The questioner assumes there is no freedom of choice in heaven but the bible clearly states that the angels chose to disobey God and rebel. He states he was an atheist before so cut him some slack people, he'll grow..
So you aren't guaranteed to stay in heaven once you get there? What about hell? Do you have the freedom to still choose God there? If not, why the one way street for this freedom? If so, couldn't it be true that God will eventually save all people?
@@devindaniels1379 Well the last info we have of the story of mankind is that God will restore the earth and the people of God will live in the "new Jerusalem" We will not live in heaven. The bible gives references to the similarities between heaven and earth such as roads of gold, mansions (houses), seas and even heavenly food (manna) its basically a return to the state of adam and eve where perfection is restored, evil and the freedom of choice still exists except this time there will be no option for redemption just like the angels who sinned and were basically sentenced straight to hell. So once a person is sentenced to hell (human or angelic) there is no way out but the options for both (human and angelic) are the same, choose to obey God and remain in heaven or disobey and be sentenced to hell permanently. No one knows for sure whats the truth but I think if we examine the scriptures we can make some educated guesses.
@@danielb5721 Okay. Thanks for your thoughts. Still seems odd to me is all. I've been told the free will was necessary to allow for a true love relationship that God wants. That doesn't seem to be the case if it is love me or be in hell with no hope of getting out. It just seems to me that for the love defense of free will's necessity, there would need to be other options that aren't horrible. It seems more like love if you pick your spouse (for example) out of all the other people in the world rather than out of the only other option of being eternally tormented.
@@devindaniels1379 I've theorized that there's the chain of command of forgiveness... God cannot go back on his laws so he allowed Jesus to take the punishment and extend Grace. the Bible says that Christians will judge angels in heaven.. but what Angels would need judging except the fallen? so perhaps Christians who are given power by Jesus can free the fallen Angels who can in turn free their own captors: the people in hell. this is not biblical and I cannot say it's true, it is just my thought.
2:30 “some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.”- Alfred from Batman
If we deny ourselves and chose God in a fallen world like this. “Free Will” won’t even matter in heaven. Our will IS His will. As the bride of Christ we want his will regardless because he’s know what’s best for us. This is what it means to fully submit. We submit now and we submit for ETERNITY. Amen ✝️
I'm geniunely fascinated by the questions and answers in Frank's videos, but frustrated by many of the people asking the questions. They don't seem to want an actual answer, just an opportunity to argue. They ask a question, Frank gets two or three words out, and they cut him off with "yeah but..." and pick up talking again. It's annoyingly common and I applaud Frank's patience with them. I would say the majority of these videos are like that. I can't tell if they don't actually want the answer, or they just assume what he's going to say and don't like it. It seems basic communication skills are disappearing.
I think Frank's answers should have asserted this discussion was conjecture loosly based on Biblical truths coupled with philosophical speculation. Only God knows these things and I think it benefits everyone to just say, "I don't know. But, here is what I think we can assume. And, here is what I consider as a possible explanation."
Angels apparently had a choice (free will) per say when they decided to follow satan. I mean what is genuine love if it was programmed or without a test of faith. Think about your significant other, would you want someone forced or programmed to love you or know they genuinely love you for who you are. The biggest difference is God shows unconditional love, something most human beings lack.
In other words, God created man in HIS image, and God isn't a robot. If he didn't want man to fall, then he would've created robots to do everything thing he wanted...that is, to be autonomous. But you can't really love a robot, and robots can't love you back...That would make existence pretty lonely for God.
Absolutely, if God wasn’t the standard, and immoral you wouldn’t even be able to make your statement. You wouldn’t have a comparison of love or to justify what’s a figment or not. Your perspective is only encompassed by your local surroundings, so you’re limited on the truth.
We will be one with God, we in Christ and Christ in God. Paul said, I'm crucified with Christ nevertheless I live, yet not I but Christ lives in me. He that is joined to God is one spirit. Grace and Peace.
So, if Lucifer had free will but no need to sin, then why did he sin? He was in heaven. He was the leader of worship. I get that he wanted to elevate himself above God, but if there is going to be no motive to sin when we get to heaven, why was there a motive before? Why couldn't someone in heaven decide they wanted to be above God and start this thing all over again? Just an interesting thought I had on this video.
This poor guy looks rude but he is only trying to redirect Frank to answer his questions. I know that desperate feeling that it might be his only chance to ask this question he never had answer to. He didn't get it this time either. Frank couldn't answer this simple question: Why God didn't put everyone in the heaven from the first place?
@@Gp39454 It was not. The descriptions does not match. For example in Eden man was described to live as a "couple" while in heaven they are described to not live as couples. "a place of perfect peace" Yeah, about that. The angels were living in "perfect peace" in the direct presence of god, yet a bunch decided to give him the finger. So either that perfect peace is not correct or something stinks up there. But since this is all silly mythology anyway, it does not matter in reality.
The gospel is the GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM! Repent and believe the gospel! Follow Jesus’ teachings! Jesus is going to return and set up the kingdom of God ON THE EARTH! God’s government ON THE EARTH! The Messiah will resurrect his people! The destiny of the Messiah and his people is to be ON THE EARTH! The renewed restored earth! God also dwelling with them! Rev 21 Jesus said the Father is the only true God! John 17 3 And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent. RSV Only-monos God-theos Monos theos Monotheism The Father Jesus is the one sent by the true God (the Father)! Jesus never claimed to be God, Jesus said he has a God! Jesus has a God! Jesus died! God can’t die! God raised Jesus from the dead!
I sometimes share the same worry. But you have to remember that God is the only source of happiness in the universe (because he made it) and he intends to give us what will really make us happy (if we will let him). Think of yourself as a complex machine (you basically are) and only your designer knows what’s best for you. Guess it just takes a little faith that he has our best interest in his heart.
You 100 percent won't be your worldly self, you will clearly see this world's pathways of thought and their sources and you will know you chose the truth. You are still thinking with a worldly mind, it makes sense that way to you because your glasses are dark and blurry. Ask him to show you. Keep asking amd asking and asking instead of once and turning away because "aha! I knew it it was useless" this is again the worldly pathway of thought ask for a peice of God's mind.
@@nathanyoung5620 that’s why Bible says “ no eye has ever seen or no ear has ever heard before what God have for those who love Him”. So it’s something spectacular that we will always be happy about and spend time happily with Him”.
I liked the question from the questioner. I think it was a very sincere, valid, and intelligent question, and as a Christian, I often ask myself questions like this, as well. I think my answer to the questioner would’ve been that creating a stable, Cause-and-Effect Universe with Free Will inherently built into human beings necessitated certain creation parameters. To have free will, you have to be able to choose Rebellion. One of the key differences between a Pre-Fallen human being like Adam and a Post-Redeemed Christian living in Heaven one day is that the Future Christian understands the consequences of sin whereas Adam did not. There is no way Adam could’ve foreseen all the destruction and misery he and Eve’s disobedience would bring on this world, even with God’s warning to them, whereas a Christian one day living in Heaven knows better based off of personal experience. You could almost view our Earthly lives as emperical databases in the making for moral decisions, and it will serve as a sobering reminder that sin doesn’t work; we proved it ourselves in our Earth-lives. I think that that sobering reminder, coupled with a Redeemed physical body free from the sin nature currently inherent in human beings will be two key factors that motivate Christians NOT TO SIN in Heaven. So basically, the reason the system wasn’t designed that way from the beginning is NOT because of a deficiency on God’s part but because of a lack of proper knowledge/respect of sin on our part. We will have the same free will in Heaven as if we did in a Pre-Fallen earth, but we will understand now that sin is B A D, not just from God’s warning (which should have been enough) but also from experience. I definitely believe the Fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom, but I would wager that respectful fear of sin is also a form of wisdom, something Free-Fallen human beings (Adam and Eve) apparently did not have.
I haven’t read the Bible in entirety, but is there a part of the scripture that says we will remember all of the horrible things that happened because of sin? If we don’t retain this memory, won’t we be back at the drawing board where Adam and Eve were where we don’t know the consequences of sin and only know that God has asked us to obey him?
Hes basically saying God could have created a world that was perfect and just love no free will but instead chose to create a world that allowed evil to exist
Frank answered this dude's question clearly with what he thought he was asking. I could tell Frank was getting a little annoyed because the dude wasn't listening fully to the answer. I thought Mr. Turek handled it quite well and in a pleasant way told the guy to "shut up and sit down; you're holding up the line".
Glorified body equals eternal and perfect incorruptible body,with a perfect mind,and a perfect heart. We are given an amazing gift that will able to be in Gods presence and not burn up. Amen
Would you love someone who forced themself on you? If they held you at gunpoint telling you that you're gonna love them (like it or not)? So many people think it but few can articulate it. It can be confusing but its understandable. This man wonders why God would create us with free will if it would ultimately cause so much pain and suffering. In the end the answer will make far better sense than it does to him now but it is the redemptive power and purpose of God that matters most. It will outweigh the blows of sin, shame and even death. The choice to choose and love God as we come to know him is amazing. Especially from the standpoint of a sin-nature (the desire to reject him). God's grace and mercy is a real thing. Blessings to you all!
That still leaves the question... why didn’t he create a universe without the need for all these hoops to jump through? God created a universe where he had to sacrifice himself to himself for mistakes he made.
+ That's why he is the embodiment of LOVE. Think of it this way: HE (God) is LOVE. For LOVE to exist among beings it needs Free will. Love without freewill cannot exist. God: 1)Creates the universe...and in that instant he sees we are frail and will not seek to do good for each other, but will continue to do evil towards each other. 2)He wants to reveal himself to US, because he is LOVE. Yet, without turning the 180 degree concept of LOVE and Freewill on its head. But can't just yet and has to wait till it's the right time. To place himself on earth to show us the way. 3) He comes to earth. Still gives us free will by not OVERTLY showing himself to each and everyone that exist and will ever exist...because new people are constantly being born. If he did that he would remove free will and thus love cannot exists. 4) He lets us find him through free will...seeking him.
@@zynnfindo4776 Yes he did. He chose to rebel against God. All creatures have free will. There are consequences though to those free will choices. In Satan's case he was immediately removed from the presence of God.
raynize1 so if it is possible to know the extent of gods omnipotence, omnibenevolence, omniscience etc and still retain our free will then why would god create this flawed and arbitrary path to knowledge of him? If he did not know how his creation was going to play out then he is not omniscient/omnipotent. If he did but proceeded without improving his plan, knowing that he would condemn life to suffering because of flaws he created, then he is morally bankrupt. The things you are arguing are mental gymnastics in order to justify pre-existing beliefs. This is fallacious.
raynize1 I am not attempting to complain. Merely pointing out the flaws in this line of reasoning. My point is god could have created us in a state where these issues did not arise. Full stop. If god has all of the Omni-characteristics then he can do this. The fact that he did not and condemned huge portions of humanity to Hell for it is unjust. There is no reason he had to obfuscate his existence or make honest inquiry dangerous. Why must the universe have meaning? Why must our existence be assigned meaning? What meaning does scripture give us? To worship god or face damnation? I think that cheapens our existence. I wake up every day and get to find my own meaning. Family, friends, hobbies, humanity etc etc etc.. Morality is a different issue. You are correct, there is no absolute morality. But there are fundamentals we can all agree on. If something increases well being it can be considered generally good. If it decreases well being it can be considered generally bad. This can become much more complex depending on circumstances but at its core it is very simple. We live among others and it is our best interest to coexist in a way which benefits as many people as possible. Almost no one would go out and start harming people tomorrow because we found out there was no god because we understand there are consequences and also don’t wish to be harmed ourselves. Furthermore, do you believe owning and/or beating another human being almost to death is morally correct? How about punishing family members for crimes committed by their relatives? Genocide?
The gentleman wanted God to create a perfect world where everyone does not choose right or wrong which at the end boils down to no freedom of choice. You can't blame God for peoples choices. But at the end of the day Paul writes Roman's 9:21 Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? 22What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory- 24even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles?
@Douglas Davis Please cite your observable,testable,repeatable eveidence for no "God!" Let me guess another non scientist talking science! Got to love it!
@Douglas Davis Lol Grammar,spelling,punctuation Insults is the sign of a weak arguement. So since you can't provide proof that there isn't a GOD according to your standard, I don't have to provide proof that there is. So this is a dead arguement ! Yes I have the proof this is easy. When you give me your proof ,I will give you my proof. Got to love the Atheist who claim science and yet are not scientists lol I can't even take them serious anymore lol Am I being punked? Lol where are the cameras?
@Douglas Davis lol been to the moon! Oh man stop it man your killing me.😂🤣 This guy wants me to believe that a scientist would waste his time arguing like a child on youtube lol. Please stop 😂🤣I have to show this to my Christian friends this is funny. He calls me the crackpot, thanks for the laughs.😂 He asked me what scientific credentials do I have. 😂🤣😂 Logic he says oh my😂🤣
@Douglas Davis You still don't get it lol You are imposing a question on me that you yourself can't answer 🤣😂 Mr.Scientific genius who walked on the moon. I can slow it down for you if you need me to. I can answer your question with ease. But since you can't answer the very same question that you imposed on me the arguement is dead. A scientist would never ask someone to answer a question that they themselves can't answer. You're just a normal guy picking on Christians for whatever God forsaken reason. You should be ashamed.
The gospel is the GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM! Repent and believe the gospel! Follow Jesus’ teachings! Jesus is going to return and set up the kingdom of God ON THE EARTH! God’s government ON THE EARTH! The Messiah will resurrect his people! The destiny of the Messiah and his people is to be ON THE EARTH! The renewed restored earth! God also dwelling with them! Rev 21 Jesus said the Father is the only true God! John 17 3 And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent. RSV Only-monos God-theos Monos theos Monotheism The Father Jesus is the one sent by the true God (the Father)! Jesus never claimed to be God, Jesus said he has a God! Jesus has a God! Jesus died! God can’t die! God raised Jesus from the dead!
My question is how can God be omniscient and we have free will at the same time? If I create something knowing what it’s going to do before I make it then I am creating it to do what I know it’s going to do. Like creating a robot and programming it to go about doing what it’s going to do. In a sense I am then omniscient where that robot is concerned. If that robot decides to short-circuit and go haywire and starts doing its own thing it would then have free will and I therefore would no longer be omniscient.
He made it bc it was the only way for TRUE love. if we just got love there was no way to recognize it bc we have no had pain, so happiness without pain isn’t happiness, and we could never feel the fullness of joy without fall
What happens when you put something in front of a light? A shadow appears. Satan introduced evil to the world. And it is because of Satan that we can find ourselves in the shadow rather than the light. Analogously, once the obstacle is removed from the picture, only then will we always be in the light. That's the way I understand it. But the bottom line is that God has hidden things from our minds for our betterment. So focus on Jesus, and give Him all the glory!
@@KittyChanU2 bible states that jesus will answer all of your prayer. But no prayers are answered any more than if you didnt pray. What part of "All your prayer will be answered" is not clear..but all prayers are not answered, so jesus or the bible is lies. How can any living person describe the after life since you have to be dead to witness heaven. So to describe heaven is lying therefore God will not let liars into heaven for lying is a sin. Heaven is the worst illusion created by humanity. Do not go any where for eternity, it is a very bad idea.
I am not sure if it’s a cultural thing to suddenly cut the other person while responding a question and to add the “yayayaya” Sounds for me that this young man wants to make his reasoning valid that God created evil which is not. In fact, evil is the absence of good like darkness is the absence of light but we know for sure that God is good. He have a point but not sincerely enough to make his case and pass to eternity freely.
It could be that, or maybe he's had this conversation a lot with people and is frustrated/impatient with the common path it takes. It's not an appropriate reaction in a conversation but it could be an explaining factor. I hope this guy doesn't some of these larger philosophical questions take the spotlight away from his relationship with Jesus Christ (said from experience).
You need to understand the context. In Hebrew evil can refer to many things for example adversity, affliction, calamity, distress, misery. as well as moral evil. Given the fact the bible clearly states that God is not the authour of evil the meaning of evil in this passage means something else nice try though.
It's a weird conundrum, in general, mankind is angry at God for allowing suffering to occur. But yet when we talk about Heaven all mankind can think about is there's no free will in Heaven. Well... If we make it to Heaven, it won't be because of our good works. God says we cannot make it into Heaven through works alone. Yet people would bring up questions like that. Basically they're saying they still want free will in Heaven so that they can sin and rebel again. That's really sad. And I'm pretty sure if that's our intentions to begin with, then God is not going to let these people into Heaven period...
Christians serve Christ. It’s in our hearts, it’s in the soul, in heaven in our glorified state, our servitude to Christ is everlasting. There is no room for rebellion
I will answer this question very simply. Yes you have free will in heaven, how do I know? Because the origin of evil (as the guy asks about) actually comes from the fact that the angels had free will, so much so that Satan (one of the highest angels) abandoned heaven and God for the material world. And as for the question he asks about why God has us go through all of this if people will be lost is because (as the bible describes) God is like a gardener tending to a tree, we are the tree (family tree if you like) the gardener has to cut off the parts of the tree that are dead and arent producing any fruit. We must go through this life because the entirety of it is ment to help us grow and mature enough to be allowed to inherit such a infinity amazing gift like heaven. God did this because he wants us to retain our personal consciousness and free will as individuals but also wants us to recognize we are all connected through the same spirit that is in all things and because of that all living things deserve our love as if it was ourselves, he wants us to be free thinking but also selfless and loving. And God is right to do so because eternal love and happiness shouldnt be given to those who only want it for themselves or who to those who wont truly appreciate it
Altitude I don’t agree that we will have free will in heaven at all, while on this earth we must give up our will, and obey the will of God. Jesus said unless you deny yourself, the picture of Christ in the garden of gethsemane, is a picture of laying down his will, Jesus calls us to be FOLLOWERS of himself, willing to lay down our life, that is deny your own right, your will, and live by his. It’s not possible to live in heaven and still have your own will, that is in contradiction to the requirement of a born again believer, and the word of God. Our preparation is to live our life in obedience to the word of God, it’s not possible to live in this manner and keep your own will.
i think the pastor lost this one... no one knows whats being discussed here. if god knows everything, he could have created a universe where there is no need to sin eventhough we have free will
This was probably the best question so far, it's a shame the speaker didn't know quite how to convey it but it's a really intelligent question. Basically, if I'm understanding him right, he's asking why God gave us the capacity for evil in this life, but not the next. Probably the most common argument for the problem of evil (why bad things happen if God is all-powerful and all-good) is the Free Will Defense, that God values our ability to Choose evil or Choose Him so highly it that it's better to allow all the suffering in history than to rob us of that free will. This guy is asking ""but there's no free will of that kind in Heaven, we don't have the ability to choose evil there, which implies that God does Not value free will as much as we thought. If God doesn't find Free Will to be valuable enough to keep in heaven, why did he create us with free will on Earth, at the cost of all human suffering that ever has been or will be? Why didn't he just create the Earth to have no free will and therefore no evil, like Heaven?""
fandude7 wrong wrong so wrong...you’re missing 3 major points here. First, We have tons of evidence that millionaires steal money. How many tax evasion cases involved millionaires? Just back in April, a man was arrested for shoplifting at Kmart after he just bought an 8 million dollar island off of key west. Secondly, you’re missing the point. If we don’t have the ability to sin, or do evil, do we really have free will? Lastly, if you truly believe that, then god could’ve created earth that way. With no one having the temptation to do any wrong. We would be perfect with no hang ups. A perfect, all powerful god could do just that
@@2004appjoe and yet, without Free Will, we would not *choose* to love God, it would be forced on us. I realize some people would love to have a robot for a spouse, but I am not one of them. Someone *choosing* to love me, like me, be my friend, etc... Seem logical?
Michael Will I don’t actually think you choose who you love anymore than you can choose to decide you can fly. I can’t choose to love someone I despise. You either love someone for certain reasons or you don’t. But when it comes to god, from what I get from most Christians, they believe he created every human and is all omniscient and omnipotent. Meaning he created you and I, knowing if you and I would love him, even before he created us. For example, If I created you, knowing that you wouldn’t love me, does that still give you free will? Can you choose to love me, when I created you knowing you wouldn’t love me?
@@2004appjoe It seems that our free will doesn't depend on God's knowledge of what we're going to do or not do. Just because God knows our actions beforehand doesn't mean we didn't exercise our free will. It's amazing God gave us free will.
fandude7 i don’t see how...if you were god, and you created someone that could only walk UP TO 2 miles per day, could that person walk MORE than 2 miles per day? Do they have the free will to walk more than 2 miles per day? Or if god created you blind...do you have the free will to have vision? If god created you knowing you’d go to medical school, do you think you’d change gods plan for you to go to medical school using free will? You may think you have free will because you’re not privy to gods full knowledge of your future. But if god created you, AND your future, I’d love to know how you think you could change his plan using free will
So why couldn't it be like that at the start?... Frank: well that would be beca- Yeah yeah yeah, but I'm not talking about that I'm talking about evil in this world. Frank: -_-
I believe that in order to have a relationship with God and love God we have to be given free will so we can choose him. If the Lord had made everything from the start, in a realm where there was no possibility to sin, we would not be there because we chose to be; therefore would not have had free will. So when people ask the meaning of life, I believe it to be so that we can exist in the new heaven and new earth in a meaningful relationship with the creator that we have chosen!
@@simone_lajoy - Because, and I suspect due to the language barrier, Frank didn't properly address the actual question of the questioner. His point was, if Free Will is what enables sin now, and God is responsible for free will, is God also not responsible for sin? Furthermore, if free will is the enabler of sinfulness, as it was for Lucifer in Heaven, will it not also be an enabler for sinfulness upon arriving in Heaven for all believers and saints? Therefore enabling another fall from Grace...? The only way to reconcile this is to assume that God will remove free will from us upon arriving in Heaven. Else, even without "motive" as Frank suggest, we would still be free to CHOOSE something contrary to God's will.
It's important to understand that before we sin, we are tempted. Therefore, if we remove the source of temptation (Satan), and nothing will enter heaven that defiles it, as the Bible expresses, then we will have free will without Satan's temptation.
@@ChismTuggle free will does not enable sin so God cannot be responsible for sin. What enables sin is pride, that has nothing to do with free will. Sin in this context is not just mere sin but challenging the authority of God. Lucifer's sin was him trying to be like God, so was man first sin. He ate the fruit so he could also be like God. Telling yourself you do not need God is the sin in this context. Even if there was no free will Lucifer would still have sinned but would not have been able to take action on the sin that was already in his heart. He already believed in his heart that he's better than God , and because of free will he said I will..., Without free will he would not have been able to say I will...but would have still thought it in his heart that he was better than God.
The problem is choice. Evil isn’t a created thing. Evil is a result of wrong choices. People won’t have a desire to sin or do evil because we will know what ugliness we have been redeemed from. Heaven (new earth) will be so amazing that who would want to anything else.
The type of ' friut' was never identified in scripture , the ' apple' is Roman Catholic tradition not scripture . It wasn't the 'fruit' that was the problem , it was Adam and Eves 'disobedience ' that caused the problem .
Had Adam eaten from the tree of Life, he would have been immortal, so he doesn't live forever in his fallen body, God cast them out before they could even think of going near it and posted angel with a flaming sword to keep off would be intruders. So, all believers who endure to the end will be give the fruit from the tree of Life to eat and they will live for eternity. That's the reason we encourage one another until the end.
We are already immortal. Yes our human body may die but we either go to hell or heaven forever. You can’t die in Heaven or hell. Hell is eternal torture and suffering and you can never get out.
I also asked myself if after reaching heaven we could sin again there and fall again and get back to earth and need to be saved again. 😂 I think the glorified bodies will not be tempted like this one.
Bad answer here. We don’t have free will to choose God ;he chooses us, dead people cannot choose life.second scripture states that we will be raised incorruptible and it will be impossible to sin.
Don't you just wish Calvin had a time machine and could have set Joshua straight on his theology when he said, "choose ye this day whom ye will serve, whether the gods, etc. ..."? Then, good old Calvin could have helped him out, "actually, you don't choose. You are spiritually dead and God chooses, or doesn't choose, you." Then, he could jump back in his time machine and help out the Apostle John, who so naively wrote that "God so loved the world that whosoever..." when, of course, God actually only loves the elect, not the world, and dooms the rest. Obviously, 'whosover' cannot freely come to belief, but only those few that God does love. Maybe then, if Calvin had been able to help make the Bible clearer, as supporting his theology, then guys like this wouldn't give such bad answers.
@@Giant_Meteor choice =/= free will Choice = will Desires are enslaved to sin. We always choose according to our desires (100% of the time). How can it be said mankind is free? But the will is enslaved to sin so will never desire or choose God...ever. Just like a lion will never choose a bowl of lettuce over a bowl of meat - ever. Jesus said the one that sins is a slave of sin. Slaves are not free. Given our fallen natures no one can choose God of their own accord. "No one seeks God not one" - Paul in Romans. No one comes to Christ unless it has been granted by the father. John 6 “Does this [o]offend you? 62 What then if you should see the Son of Man ascend where He was before? 63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh [ie ur own human will/mind ] profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life. 64 Butthere are some of you who do not believe.”For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who would betray Him. 65 And He said, “Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father.” Why? Because our hearts are bent on sin and we need new ones to desire to come to God. Are you a pelagian or semi-pelagian? You sound it. Kudos to you for first choosing God. Lol. Calvinists don't deny a will (The faculty or ability to choose)...they deny its free (as scripture paints it as enslaved to sin). A heroin addict has a will....I wouldn't call it free by any means though.
@@Aaron637 Totally, man. I'm right there with you and Calvin. If only the Bible could be so clear as you and him on these points. It's like, why couldn't those poor, ancient writers have chosen their words better? Didn't they know that 'will' equals 'choice'? Perhaps had the Bible writers taken an introductory class to logic, they never would have written that God wills that none should perish, for example. I mean, you might even infer from a verse like this, that 'none' means 'none', and that God's will is not necessarily identical with what actually happens. I just wish that Calvin's theology could've been better integrated into the text itself. So many places might leave the uninitiated into thinking that 'choice' implies a freedom to decide. That passage in Joshua, for example. Maybe what he should have said is, "Choose ye this day what you have been predetermined to decide. If God has predetermined that you would follow other gods, then follow them. But as for me and my house, God chose that I would choose to serve the Lord". Why couldn't those Bible writers ever be so clever and philosophically sophisticated as Mr. Calvin?
@@Aaron637 'Semi-Pelagian' is a pretty dumb, contrived term. Every heresy there has ever been, has been semi-true and semi-false. Even a Calvinist could be called semi-Pelagian, as they would agree with the heretic that man has 'choice'. I could similarly be labeled a semi-Arian, as I agree with the heresiarch that Jesus is the son of God. I just happen to differ on the small matter that I also profess Jesus as God. I never said I chose first. You are putting words in my mouth, as you seem to draw ideas from the Bible that are not there. Scripture does not say a slave to sin cannot have the the ability to freely accept a gift of freedom offered him. You are distorting a Scriptural analogy to meet the needs of your deficient theology. A heroin addict has a free will that is severely affected by chemical dependency. Has anyone ever overcome addiction?
@@Giant_Meteor legend has it...Calvin actually inserted the terms election into scripture. Probably wrote Ephesians 1, 1 cor 1-2, Romans 9 himself. We can never be sure. The only valid escape of election is open theism. If God has foreknowledge the future is as certain as the past. Libertarian free will is just an illusion. Peace man. I was an anti-calvinist once upon a time. An actual semi-pelegian. I feel strongly about this topic. I don't think God's grace gives the option of salvation....I believe it definitively saves. Arminians are my brothers though. Sorry if I'm being a jerk...I'm just tired.
Well Lucifer did not “happily listen to god’s spirit and obey god” , and he was in heaven - so were the 30% of angels who sided with Lucifer, according to the legend. So has god learnt from his mistake, and changed the rules?
He just can't fathom God omnipotent,omniscient and omnipresent of God . With time he will get it , the funny thing is he wants God to do what he in his finite mind how they world is suppose to be forgetting that he wasn't there when God was creating the universe.
God will never remove our ability to choose -- the very attribute he placed in Man to begin with. The purpose in permitting Man to experience sin and then redemption was so we could understand those choices completely. Earth is where we learn this lesson and in heaven there will be no need to have our free will removed, our choice will have been made.
Freedom only comes from have choices, same with love. Can't love if you don't have the free will to do so. Sin(disobey god) again can't be free if we do have the ability to disobey god.
"No, God didnt create evil he created the possibility for evil" disagreed and agreed in the same sentence. Don't be afraid to say it, Yes God created evil. Every single thing came from God but he gave us freedom of choice and is faultless for our choices and its consequences.
@Matt Smith No one's cherry picking, I literally said "God created evil". I've seen you in the comments section below campaigning against God, I hope your eyes will be open to Jesus's mercy and forgiveness
@Arthur Feitosa Matt Just provided one of the many scriptures that proves God created evil, I think you need to accept it and change your view slightly.
Good question and my take is that to go to heaven you have to make a choice to try to be perfect as our father GOD. And those that make it to heaven have already made the choice to be saved and be righteous. There might be exceptions to kids below the age of seven. So whatever you bind on earth you bind on heaven meaning if you are repentant and saved by the grace of GOD you won’t sin in heaven bcz you already have passed the test and GOD’s grace is in you.
It's the flesh that has the sin nature. That won't be there in heaven. That part will die and our spirits will live on in glorified bodies in the day of the resurrection. Different from what Adam and Eve had. That's what I think is going to be the difference. No sin nature, and I believe with no possibility to screw it up again. Or perhaps to the point of Frank, actually no motive. And the answer to the young man's question is this: yes, God could have created us so we wouldn't sin. But then what glory would He get when we choose Him? In that scenario we are just doing what we were created to do on instinct. Of course we would love Him. But how much more is love shown, or dare I say actually taking place, if we have the choice to love. For example, animals cant love their young babies. They are acting on mere instincts. They just do it. We humans were created differently - in God's image, His likeness and nature. We have the choice and ability to love and care and reason. I've heard Frank address this before, so I'm surprised that he isn't getting what the young man is asking. Perhaps this Q&A predates those other videos.
Nice theory. Adam and Eve sinned without sin nature. Satan sinned without sin nature. Besides, sin nature isn't actually a phrase the Bible uses to discribe anything... So not sure you are talking about a biblical concept.
@@austin3789 basically all I'm trying to say is something will be different in eternity with Jesus. He will wipe away all tears, with no more pain or sorrow or death, and create a new heaven and new earth. This is in Revelation 21. Now that is scripture, and beyond that is speculation, which is what I was doing in my original post. As far as the flesh that I mentioned, I was speaking about the passage in Romans 7. Verse 17 speaks of the sinful nature that is the part that sins. Yes, it is us who sins, but the writer makes the point that it is the flawed flesh which has the sinful nature.
@@BrandonBurch Revelation 20:1-3) its actually deeper then that when u die its not just heaven or hell. The Devil is going to be locked up for (1,000) years and there will be a teaching period on the Earth so everyone knows who the Most High is. Then after the Devil will be let back out to try and trick people Again one last time
@@tiffanywright6653 Rev 21 is talking about after all that. This is after the 1000 years. God creates a new heaven and new earth and all the former things are passed away. Ultimately it will all be set right one day forever. All sin judged accordingly, and all who have not trusted in Jesus for their forgiveness of sins will be cast into the lake of fire, including the devil.
@@BrandonBurch yea the new Earth and new heaven comes after the 1,000 years which has not come yet satan hasnot come yet if he did nd was locked up there would be no more murders, rapes, nothing negative on Earth
All mouths shall be stopped on that day because there will be irrefutable evidence of their ignorance and guilt and justification for their condemnation. Psalm 107:42; Romans 3.
God asked man for obedience, to trust and thus, have faith in him. Man violated that request, and thus, has lived in a fallen state since. Earning God's trust again, that will require dedication in a fallen world, the world man chose. May we all make it back into God's presence, with our Lord Jesus.
There is free will in heaven but in the presence of God, nobody will feel tempted to sin. Or in other words, the temptation we feel here isn't comparable with what we will feel in heaven.
@Douglas Davis I never claimed I was going to present any evidence to you, did I? I merely told you were to look, either your eyes will see or not. "The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork." -Psalm 19:1 KJV Good day to you!
There is free will in heaven just as the Angels have free will. The reality is we will be in Heaven having the righteousness of God and incapable of sin.
@Matt Smith Sound thinking and logic indeed...when looking at things from the creation point of view, i.e., that "God" created everything and that humans were created with "free will". Now, hold that thought, just set it aside for a moment and go back to the beginning. You wrote: "When people ask why such horrible things happen on earth...." So again, and just for the same of discussion, toss out "God" completely and ask that same question, this time from the point of view that the "scientific" explanation for life, on this planet, is the truth, that all is a product of "evolution". Your question would now be something along the lines of "When people ask why such horrible things happen on earth, Science says it is because we evolved and...." That is the tricky part, ain't it? If evolution is true, is it still "reasonable" to suggest Homo sapiens have this "free will"? Bears hibernate...because it is their nature. Birds fly south for the winter...because it is their nature. It could be argued that yes, each is "free" to do whatever it wants but, at exactly the same time, each is limited, according to its nature, to what it both "can" do (has the ability to do) as well as will "choose" to do. So now, sticking with evolution as the explanation for the origin of Homo sapiens on this planet, why do some of those Homo sapiens clearly have an innate propensity toward--and we'll keep the word because it is convenient--"evil" while others do not? I.E., why do some "rape, pillage, and plunder," why do some commit crimes, what are some violent, or another axiom comes to mind, why is recorded human history little more than the story of "man's inhumanity to man"? "Free will" always struck me as the single-best example of on oxymoron ever. The "will" is, of course, the natural "instincts" of the thing, that innate predisposition of those bears and birds. "Free," of course, in this context (that of man's "free will") suggests a "will" that is absent any predisposition toward, well, anything. That bear would sit there and say, "Yeah, I think I'll take a nap." Another would say, "Nope, not me." It, that creature, Homo sapiens, or birds and bears, could never, would never "choose" anything simply because, according to the definition of "free will," they are "free" from any "nature" to do much of anything. So for me, personally, it reduces to a choice. Science, on the one hand, seems to present a perfectly plausible and otherwise reasonable explanation for the existence of life on this planet...up to the point that science completely avoids any discussion of "human nature". Oh, it goes on and on about offering "reasons" there are all of these "horrible things that happen on earth," things like socio-economic inequality and unfairness, those physiological and psychological "problems" common between and among earthlings. So Science, or it seems to be, begins its explanations and understanding of human conduct and behavior essentially as does religion, specifically, the Christian religion, i.e., in the "Garden of Eden," in a state of "innocence". Science simply explains those "horrible things" on...anything and everything else...except "human nature". On one hand, if I understand Science correctly, we are all born "innocent" and yet, at exactly the same time, things in life--always external to the individual--can "cause" a person to become "evil," go bad, break the law, etc. Christianity, however, begins with the individual, the consideration of his nature. Both arrive at the same conclusion, that of those "horrible things that happen on earth". And then it is here that I simply piss off pretty much everyone else. I.E., Science fails, miserably, to explain...anything, defined now as to "why" life is the way it is. Bears generally get along with their fellow bears. I've never seen a bunch of robins attack a flock or cardinals. Yes, animals will fight over territory and they will kill for food but killing, for little more than a sport, like humans? Never. So if evolution is true, the only thing to brag about is that Homo sapiens did indeed evolve to be the most cruel species to ever take up space on this planet. So where Science fails, Christianity offers the better explanation, that of Creation. A "somebody, somewhere" set all of this into motion. And while I might, for the sake of discussion, grant "free will" to Adam and Eve (whether literal or metaphor), but after that? I just can't see it, "Free will" remains an oxymoron. And if it isn't that, there does remain only one other possible conclusion: Evolution explains the existence of Homo sapien but, somewhere along the way, that genus (I think that's the correct word) has expanded, has further evolved, to include a sub-species that looks "human" but damned sure ain't. And that starts to sound like the theory that aliens visited this planet and tampered with primate DNA to create both an "intelligent" bunch as well as a "slave" species, now doesn't it? Sorry to have rambled so much. You stay safe and be well.
I personally think there WILL be free will in Heaven. We will have free will, sinning to us in Heaven will probably be equivalent to us right now where we don’t have a desire to drop a new born baby into a free way to see if it’ll bounce. Extreme example I know but it’s useful to illustrate how sinning won’t even cross our minds. Well Have glorified bodies incapable of sin but we will have free will. If we want to walk around we can, if we want to eat or drink we can, if we want to speak we can, we will have free will. I also agree with Frank, we create kids knowing they’ll possibly steal money out of our wallets or crash our cars or lie to us or sneak out but we still make them out of love. We aren’t just going to not make them or kill them because of the possibility. So I agree. God knew that we’d fall short and he knew how to redeem. God so loved the world he gave up Jesus so that he can die for our sins, rise up again on the third day and all our sins were washed by his blood. ALL SINS past, present and future. All we have to do is have faith and trust in him. Glory to the name of God. Repent guys! Repent and trust in Jesus! When you repent you view Jesus in a different way, when you repent you view sin differently, when you repent you start to ask for forgiveness for your sins to reconcile that relationship with God, when you repent you get new desires to do what is right, you’ll want to aim for that mark of perfection even though you know you can’t attain it YET like Paul wanted. We won’t be perfect until we get our Glorified bodies that will be like Christ. God Bless you Frank and God Bless anyone who reads this
Love of God is how creation is holy. Free will was given to creation. God chooses for eternity those who love him. Redemption was required to heal those who through no fault of their own were made sinners. This is just and merciful. Those who choose God will come to Gods light , the Son. Those who do not come to the light God do so by choice. The darkness we must overcome. Separated from God , ignorant of God we search for truth. Those who are genuine seekers will find him.
If Satan and one third of the angels got cast out for rebelling, there is obviously free will in Heaven.
Exactly! GOD never interferes with Free Will no matter when or where we are. Only difference now to prevent sin ever to enter Heaven is JESUS will have His scars on His hands.
John Smith so if God comes back and I’m in heaven and decide that I don’t want to follow God, will I just be banished to hell?
@@TheHardTruthTV No that is impossible because you will be as Jesus is...perfect. "1 John 3:2, KJV: "Beloved, now are wethe sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall belike him; for we shall see him as he is."
Everyone since the beginning of their existence (including angels) were given a test. The test was whether to worship God or not worship Him. It’s still the same thing today in an individuals life. Humans were the only created thing to be given a chance of redemption. The angels who followed Satan are never given redemption and the angels who followed God remain in His goodness. We were given a part of God (His Breath) the Angels were not given His breath.
Of course Angels do not reproduce as we do either. But it does make me wonder why the fallen angels were not given a second chance. It must be the fact that they have actually seen God. I guess I will figure it out later.
Rebellion in Heaven is not going to happen in heaven , that was a onetime event .
I can’t WAIT to get to Heaven, relax into His arms and never, ever, ever have to battle my hideous fallen self again.
No more gossiping, wishing schadenfreude on people, being judgy and arrogant, being self-pitying and spiteful, proud and gruesome...
I know deep down I have some lovely qualities, but they drown regularly in the sea of my sinful nature. I must drive my Father crazy most days....
Tired of the battle...but still walking....Amen!
Claire Craske Amen!
I was just telling my self that today
Can’t wait till God perfects us and frees us from this body of death like Paul said
Meanwhile we must battle this sinful nature everyday in the name of Jesus and with the Holy Spirit
‘I can’t wait to get to heaven’ That’s it. Yes!!
Claire Craske your awesome.
Amen to that! Hallelujah!!!! PRAISE JESUS!!
We will have freewill in heaven - in our redeemed state we could sin if we wanted to, but we will be so satisfied and so complete in him that there will be no desire to sin. This would be how our fallen nature is redeemed back into a holy nature
People also forget that we wont have these bodies, so no sinful desires to fill
Incorruptible glorified bodies = Bodies that will never be tainted by sin for eternity
Prynce NY the guys question tho is Howcome it couldnt have been that way from the start ? That would’ve prevented everything were going through now
@@str8talks410 We can speculate God's true motive behind it. However I believe we wouldn't truly understand nor would his full true nature would be on display if it didn't happen.
You / We would not know truly what holiness, righteousness, obedience, forgiveness, mercy was had we not been through anything.
Prynce NY good point
I totally understand this guys question and it's a good one. But dang! Will he let Frank answer?!
Yeah I've been waiting for this question
And I still didnt get the answer
Brandt p it’s a bad answer
Shalom Brandt
God created heaven and earth, not sin however.
A specific creature created sin! NOT God.
Because SIN breaks Gods moral law.
God cannot break his own moral laws, because the moral law is a reflection of Gods character.
Therefore God cannot sin against itself.
e.g.
Can God destroy himself
?
Can God create Sin?
God can't do the logical impossible.
May the living God's limitless love shine upon you and your loved ones every day.
May the grace of our God and saviour Jesus Christ be with all its people.
Not really a "good one" for question. I personally don't want to live in a world where there are no choices and every one is a love robot. My wife makes a choice each day to love me and I the same. I foster and feed that love she has for me. I have seen people raise their children with absolutely zero choices and control them to the point their children are total messes when faced with any adversity they have to face on their own.
Taking to account of Satan choosing to rebel against God which caused him to be thrown out along with the angels that joined them.
Yes you will have free will in heaven.
The best thing to do with your free will:
Confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus. Believe in your heart that God has raised him from the dead and you will be saved!
(Romans 10:9)
Christ makes life INCREDIBLE!!!
Not much evidence of that, given how awful the lives of many Christians are.
I’m not sure what you consider awful, but my life is very blessed. I have love and joy in my heart, peace of mind, I’m not addicted to drugs or alcohol, I’m not running from the police, I have a good relationship with my neighbors and it’s all because I’m following the teachings of Christ. Statistically, people who live by the teachings of Christ are the most giving, most humanitarian, most charitable people in the world.
I don’t know if u consider yourself an atheist, but because they have no objective moral standard, they have no means by which to quantify what makes life good or awful. Survival of the fittest is the default so you don’t see atheists feeling compelled to do as much good in the world. Choose Christ.
Mike Well as Christians, we are constantly in a process of denying are flesh or sinful desires, which urges us to constantly please ourselves. You may say that because humans naturally do what they can to always feel comfortable. I don't have to help others, I don't need to challenge people's thinking, I subscribe to my own opinions, and I do whatever it takes to please myself. Until we get to Heaven we will always be tempted to please ourselves instead of being selfless, confrontational, promoting truth instead of pursuing happiness because we are still human. But that's where a Christ comes in. Jesus knew that we couldn't reach for righteousness on our own.
The gospel is the GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM!
Repent and believe the gospel! Follow Jesus’ teachings!
Jesus is going to return and set up the kingdom of God ON THE EARTH! God’s government ON THE EARTH! The Messiah will resurrect his people! The destiny of the Messiah and his people is to be ON THE EARTH! The renewed restored earth! God also dwelling with them! Rev 21
Jesus said the Father is the only true God!
John 17
3 And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.
RSV
Only-monos
God-theos
Monos theos
Monotheism
The Father
Jesus is the one sent by the true God (the Father)!
Jesus never claimed to be God, Jesus said he has a God!
Jesus has a God!
Jesus died!
God can’t die!
God raised Jesus from the dead!
Amen!
Maybe there won't be any evil in Heaven to be tempted...
Temptation comes from within, not without. That’s why our hearts must be changed. There won’t be sin because we will no longer have a sin nature
@@tomchrist695 Temptation can come from outside as well. People are social so can't be 100% internal. Plus the bible mentions people leading others into sin, for example Adam and Eve.
Then why not remove evil from Earth...
What's good for the geese is good for the gander.
Minato Arisato Adam and Eve were different before the fall. They had free will in the sense they could choose between good and evil. I am not sure how I would describe their temptation, but I can say from James 1 that for post fall humanity, we are carried away by our own evil desires. Yes, there may be other stimuli outside of me, but it’s ultimately my sinful desires that lead me to indulge in them. When Israel had prophets, they talked about how their leaders were leading them into evil, but that did not excuse those who followed. Both parties were responsible. Not to mention the fact there was always a remnant of people who followed the Lord rather than the foolish leadership.
Apple Core I don’t know the meaning of that colloquialism, but the answer you search for is in Romans 9. It basically asserts that God did it show His glory, which is His primary purpose in all things, and it is His right as Creator to do this.
Good question, and one I've not thought about much until recently.
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My thoughts are these:
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1) Will we have free will in heaven? Yes, but our will at that point will be totally in line with God's will.
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2) Why didn't God make our will totally in line with his will to begin with? God didn't want robots.
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3) Is all the suffering and chaos of the world throughout history "worth" the cost of a person's will becoming naturally, freely, in line with God's will? Yes, because otherwise God is unjust.
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I think our friend in this video is wise to think about things like this because at the core he's really asking, "Why did God create people in the first place?" I believe the answer is, "To glorify God and to be an object of his love." That's a tough thought for modern audiences to swallow though, because it totally subjects us to God as his creation.
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The closest analogy I can think of is a child asking his parents, "Why did you have me?" The best answer I have is that we want children to show love toward. But we don't want them to be unquestioning robots. We want them to be free to choose to love us. Love freely given is the most precious thing there is! Even though I know some day my child may make terrible choices and suffer greatly because of those choices, that doesn't mean I don't want to have a child. Just so with God. Even though he knew we would sin and suffer, he wanted to create us nonetheless show he could show us his incomparable love. The redeemed person is the one who has freely submitted to God out of love, and once that redemption is completed at the end of time, we will be what we were always meant to be from the beginning.
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In short, this "trial thru fire" that we call the Fall and the Redemption (aka "life") is necessary to make us who we were meant to be: free beings who want nothing more than to love God with all our heart, soul, mind, and strength. That couldn't happen if God created us as robots from the start.
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Not a perfect analogy, but those are my thoughts on the matter for now. Always interested to hear what others think.
The only way a silversmith would know if it's pure and free of ores, is if it reflects back his image when he looks into it. The only way a potter knows the porcelain is ready is when he flicks it, it sings back to him.
All the trials we believers go through are nothing but purification until we reflect the glory of image in His Son, our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.
In Baltimore Catechism, they said that God created us so we can know, love and serve him in this world.
Ahaaa . I agree would conclude as much . It follows logically with the three revealed characters of God , all just all knowing and all loving. A being such as that would have to take this path if He truly wanted autonomous objects of His love . 👍🏾
But the point of the question was, why create the conditions leading to evil in the first place? If the end game is a world full of everything we need and no conditions that would lead to evil, why not create that scenario in the first place? If you say god didn't want robots, then won't we be robots in heaven? If you don't create the conditions for evil in the first place, there wouldn't be a point of reference of course, but there also wouldn't be suffering and hardship. Which would you rather have? The way it works now, billions of god-created souls will suffer eternally due to conditions that he created.
@@Safetyman99 No we will not be robots in heaven. If God loves us then he must give us the whole show so that we FREELY choose him. If you are born without free will then its not love. But if you are born with the option to choose God or reject Him , then choosing Him will be free decision out of love. Nobody suffers eternally because of the conditions of free will because we all CHOOSE. Nobody forces us to commit evil or good. Nobody forces us to choose God or reject Him. But the consequences will follow. Anybody that rejects God and Jesus is not doing so out of ignorance .
ANOTHER answer to this question (that I've heard someone say), is that after this life, we will be the way WE FREELY CHOSE to be - people who's will is in harmony with GOD'S will. In other words, in THIS life, when we truly give our lives to our Lord Jesus, we can look forward to eternal life with the freedom FROM our formerly rebellious will. So, yes, we WILL have free will - we will be ACTUALIZED in the choice we had freely made while we were in this life: the choice to live in harmony with God's will. Anyway, that's part of how *I* see it. I can always learn MORE though, on this subject...
LoveYourNeighbour
Yes! The Will itself will be freed from self-serving. I think the guy asks the wrong question. I think he’s really wanting to know ‘will we still be tempted or deceived?’ Because Adam and Eve, their wills, would not have chosen to sin had they seen the consequences. So in heaven will it be possible to make the wrong choice? That’s the question. And no, we don’t worry about that bc satan will be cast away forever. No tempter, no temptation. He says in the video he was challenged about this by an atheist. Well yes unbelievers worry about such a thing because they can’t imagine life without sin and temptation. They think ‘what fun would that be? I would soon be partying and stealing harps! But they have not experienced a new heart and a new mind in which loving God is the greatest experience.
And the alternative is infinite agony and suffering.
Hardly a choice.
@@meleshenko3767 LOL, you wrote that some people think "what fun would that be" (to not do evil). Well, GEE... I can't think of anything MORE fun, than enjoying close, sincere, loving relationships with others, while enjoying God's glorious paradise, forever. But you know what the MOST fun thing will be?? Our close relationship with GOD - the very SOURCE of our existence, the SOURCE of all beauty, etc, etc, etc. And guess what?? We will NEVER reach the end of exploring and discovering His depths!! Because we will ALWAYS be limited, finite, created beings. But only GOD is all-knowing & infinite. No words I write here, can fully describe the "fun" that awaits us. Nuff said.
@@applecore8978 ??? The alternative, is perfect justice. Those who's sins are NOT freely paid for, will get the exact degree of punishment in hell, that they deserve, for what they've done, and who they've become. No more, and no less. "God will repay EACH person according to what they have done" (Romans 2:6), "EACH person was judged according to what they had done" (Revelation 20:13). God, the perfect judge will carry out the exact degree of punishment that every individual sinner deserves, for "the servant who knows the master’s will and does not get ready or does not do what the master wants will be beaten with MANY BLOWS. But the one who does not know and does things deserving punishment will be beaten with FEW BLOWS" (Luke 12:47,48).
Apple Core:
Assume there is a God and he made you. Now you can ask for what you want the most...What is it? (I know you could make a lot of jokes here but try to resist 🙂). I thought about this question a lot what is it that mankind wants most? To make his own choices! To have a degree of autonomy without which we would not even be individuals. This is exactly what we were given. The hypocrisy of saying ‘God does not give us real choice’ is a glaring one. The only way you would end up in eternal torment it’s by choosing it. The other choice is eternal glory love peace and inexpressible joy. But the argument goes, ‘I couldn’t possibly enjoy that unless God removed my free will and then I would be an automaton and a slave.” The error is not knowing that peace love and inexpressible joy are desirable things. People want to believe they can produce these things eternally for themselves but we can’t. We can’t and it is the very thing we cherish the most - our free wills - that demonstrate that to us. before we know Christ we can only imagine being approved by him through having our wills enslaved. It is the opposite. Actually the competition between desiring free will and desiring eternal reward ends - and surprise- we get BOTH! We get to choose for ourselves and the reward is unimaginable fulfillment. No my friend, God is not a monster. Far from it.
Scenario One:
Give me the car keys I want to drive!
But you’re only five.
I should have the car keys because I want them.
No go to your room.
You’re a monster and I’m a slave and I hate you!
Scenario Two:
Give me the car keys I want to drive!
But you’re only five.
I should have the keys because I want them.
OK well...make good choices.
I wrecked the car and broke my legs and it’s all your fault for letting me drive! I hate you!
Scenario three:
Sixteenth birthday, new Mazerati, no broken legs.
OK that’s a really lame metaphor but I made it up on the fly. I would never give a 16-year-old a Mazerati. But you get the point. 🙂
God clearly chose you Frank, to help us all better understand. Your videos are quite simply excellent.
Huh? he didn’t even answer the question. He was basically rude to the guy asking the question and then ended the discussion.
If God so decides to take away my ability to choose against him im heaven, I'm fine with that given the utter destruction that we've caused as a result of our selfish choices. Otherwise, we would all end up like the 1/3 of angels, eternally damned.
ooo, I've never thought about it i
this way before... interesting
If this is something that you would personally be okay with, would you be fine with God creating us without the ability to sin in heaven, being born there from the start. Since the ability to sin is not worth it based on the selfish choices that has caused destruction and suffering and ultimately leave us the chance to be eternally damned, for that we do not of what not we know? In my opinion, if I was given the illusion of freewill so that it could be that I did not have the ability to cause awful things to happen and that I would be with God forever, instead of in hell. Why couldn't that be the status quo? I would want to maximize the amount of happiness and perhaps someone wanted to risk their existence with God by asking Him for freewill, like say at the beginning of our life or something? I don't think anyone wants to go to hell, but most people want to be free, or at least feel as if they are. So why not give us the chance to assure our life with God rather than rolling the die on whether or not we will live a good life, since a lot of factors at play could derail us and then we'd be fallen forever. You know?
yesss
@@Golden_Red_Panda the reason for this is pretty simple. If you didn't have free will, actual free will, you couldn't know love and happiness. Without pain and suffering, you can't know happiness and pleasure. We are all given the choice, love or despair.
We'd be no different than robots if God did that.
I love what Frank said, "When you have children you're creating the possibility for them to do evil". God essentially did the same with us. Your child can grow up to murder thousands of people. Will it be your, the parent's, fault? Did you force him to do it? No. Free will.
God had his purposes for starting this whole ordeal, and we will find out why one day, when we die and go to Heaven (if we believe).
@@mitchellc4 John 8:18-19, 24 - I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me. Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also.
[24] I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
The context is the Father, and Jesus is saying that if you don't believe that He is God the Father then you will die in your sins. You should believe that the Father is in Jesus and that Jesus is in the Father (AKA one person).
@@mitchellc4 God will not set a kingdom on earth. No where in scripture does it this false doctrine. Jesus finished what he was sent to do, John 17:4 and in John 19:30 Jesus said "it is finished". God's eternal plan was Christ's Church Ephesians 3:10-11. The Church is His kingdom. Now Rev 20:4 does not say a 1000 year reign OF Christ BUT WITH Christ and that's a big difference. Rev is a symbolic book in which people twist for their own destruction and are cursed Rev 22:18-19. God bless
If parents knew that having sex from Sunday- Friday will produce kind and law abiding people I’m sure the overwhelming majority will not have sex on Saturday for fear of producing mass murderers.
God on the other hand is powerful omniscient omnipotent and the creator of the universe from nothing but seems incapable of creating heaven in the first place.
So the example you gave there doesn’t make sense
not exactly since the parents have a role in rearing, teaching, and giving a good environment for the child. Which God does through His church, His commandments, and His example as Jesus Christ
Well god knows everything that is going to happen to us, but our parents don’t. God knows that we are gonna go to hell but he still created us. If I knew for sure that my kid is going to be a murderer then i wouldn’t hade had any kids.
Yeah, yeah, yeah = “I didn’t process anything that you just said, but I want to say something else to further emphasize that I’m not listening”.
And who cares?
C79 like your humor style AND I'd stick with it you COULD have a career because I DON'T just bust a giggle out ( EVER) reading these ( well NOT ever lol) ANYHOW you just put a grin on my chin man lol
Lololol. That was really bothering me. Communication skills are key
Well, his time is clearly limited at the microphone. He was smart enough to realize at all points whenever Frank started to answer that Frank truly wasn’t understanding his question. He just wanted to make sure he could get the question across to Frank before he ran out of time. I get it.
The gospel is the GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM!
Repent and believe the gospel! Follow Jesus’ teachings!
Jesus is going to return and set up the kingdom of God ON THE EARTH! God’s government ON THE EARTH! The Messiah will resurrect his people! The destiny of the Messiah and his people is to be ON THE EARTH! The renewed restored earth! God also dwelling with them! Rev 21
Jesus said the Father is the only true God!
John 17
3 And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.
RSV
Only-monos
God-theos
Monos theos
Monotheism
The Father
Jesus is the one sent by the true God (the Father)!
Jesus never claimed to be God, Jesus said he has a God!
Jesus has a God!
Jesus died!
God can’t die!
God raised Jesus from the dead!
This guy interrupts so much, including himself.
man thats funny but at the same time mean
😂😂😂
He was just trying to make sure that his point was understood
@Crazyel Cross You realize Cross examined does the exact same thing right?
I think the real reason why so many interruptions occur (at least with the so-called "experts") is not because people are trying to specifically talk over others (even though some do that), but because they want to avoid any miscommunications. Turek does this all the time when he brings up an abstract concept or explanation - sometimes the answers or questions are under defined or vague that he wants to avoid any miscommunications. Same thing in relationships - Interruptions MUST occur if both parties want their needs met. Miscommunication when it comes to philosophical conversations are so common that many people within these fields frequently interrupt THEMSELVES (including Turek) to make sure that the terms they are using are clearly defined, because chances are that we all see things about life from different perspectives.
Geez dude...yeah, yeah, yeah. Learn to listen. Yeah, yeah, yeah...
Absolutely! A lot of talking and no listening!
Uh Huh dude that was hallarious. " My focal point" Well I'm not getting your point" lol
The answer should be worth listening of course. In turek's case that is very rare.
The gospel is the GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM!
Repent and believe the gospel! Follow Jesus’ teachings!
Jesus is going to return and set up the kingdom of God ON THE EARTH! God’s government ON THE EARTH! The Messiah will resurrect his people! The destiny of the Messiah and his people is to be ON THE EARTH! The renewed restored earth! God also dwelling with them! Rev 21
Jesus said the Father is the only true God!
John 17
3 And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.
RSV
Only-monos
God-theos
Monos theos
Monotheism
The Father
Jesus is the one sent by the true God (the Father)!
Jesus never claimed to be God, Jesus said he has a God!
Jesus has a God!
Jesus died!
God can’t die!
God raised Jesus from the dead!
He was asking a good question, Turek just didn’t know how much he understood about the Bible and free will etc, so he was trying to create a foundation for the conversation. But he was trying to skip Tureks foundation and get to a deeper question “what’s the need for redemption if there won’t even be evil in heaven?”
Bible scripture says that we will be in our Glorified and Uncorruptable Body.... We won't want nothing but...
We will want for nothing because we will have no need for things that cause Evil actions or even ideas to do evil things. We will be beautiful, powerful, immortal, rich beyond our imaginations, we wont have any worries in our lives like getting sick or dying, or having to pay bills, Heaven is free our homes are free, will we work? Yes, but it wont be something we dont like, it will be more like doing our favorite hobby but in a way that benefits others as well.
There just wont be any real reason or motivation to freely desire to do something evil considering it would get you kicked out of the very place that gave you all these priceless treasures for no cost.
@@darthbane2669 Check out "Imagine Heaven" by John Burke, it seems to propose some interesting perspectives.
Darth Bane Well, I'll say the pleasures of Heaven are not a deterrence to evil because in Heaven we'll be so far beyond evil. It'll be a faint, distant memory.
@@el-sig2249 it won't be a memory at all , God will see to it we won't remember the former things .
@soro vision If you're here to promote Anderson, please keep that reserved for his channel, and those of all his cronies.
Legend has it, that guy is still asking questions.
Because you and Frank didn't answer him or couldn't answer him?
Good job Frank...Very patient and gracious as always.
Nick L.
NANI??? Do you watch a lot of Frank?
This is really chill for him. I’ve seen TOO many others where he’s nearly yelling at the question given.
1/3 angels took their free will to follow Lucifer.
It was a thrid of all the angles not 1 in 3.
Thomas Fitzherbert, exactly what i was thinking. The 1/3 of the angels chose to sin
@@not.enoughto.go.around6176 1/3 is a fraction. it means one third.
Not.enough to.go.around One third of something equals out to 1 out of every 3 of that thing.
If one third of 9 baseballs are blue, then 1 out of every 3 is blue. They equal the same amount.
Some people are anarchists and refuse structure, rules and order.
They want to be their own masters, do whatever they want the way they want it, even if its detrimental to others.
If good sensible parents have 3 children, 1 turn ungrateful, reject the parents' authority, leave the house to end up in the street and mess with other people's lives, is this a good choice?
God didn't want a creation of puppets, it's why free will is part of the mix.
1/3 of angels chose to rebel against the structure in place, but 2/3 remained faithful.
You can question why a minority left but you should also question why the majority stayed.
The whole "Difference between Innocence and Redemption" thing reminds me of this Skyrim quote: “What is better? To be born good or to overcome your evil nature through great effort?”
@@frederickfairlieesq5316 I’m not God, so I don’t know his motives, but I’d guess he wants to live in eternity with people that choose to love him. Maybe he didn’t want to be a puppet master. Creating beings that have no choice but to follow him seems kind of pointless.
@@frederickfairlieesq5316
Well if God created this whole universe with so much complexity and accuracy that every scientist and doctors know, and yet you still didn't feel his existence, then if he bring heaven down to earth you will still be an atheist.
@@frederickfairlieesq5316
1. The signs are cristal clear that God exists.
2. What do you want from God in order to have relationship with him, knowing that you aren't equal and you are the one who needs him.
Wow. So I just had same question literally 1 day ago and an answer appeared few moments after prayer
My question was : if God is all powerful why He couldn't have created a world where love and freewill exist without the penalty of sin and death?
As such the answer was, the creation process was only done on the cross, when Jesus paid for our sins and He said "it is finished" (we are only the 7th day), if you notice in Genesis the 7th day is not closed with morning and night.
So yes, God do perfectly create that final sinless state where love and freewill can still exist. Finalized by the attoning sacrifice of Jesus
You have to notice when the scripture wrote 1 Peter 1:19-21 "according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to be obedient and to be sprinkled with the blood of Jesus Christ. May grace and peace be multiplied to you. but with the precious blood of Christ, like that of an unblemished and spotless lamb. He was foreknown before the foundation of the world but was revealed in these last times for you."
1 Peter 1:2, 19-20
True. Because God has already prepared the way back to Life, man must freely choose to access and appropriate it, ot go on in their own rebellion and self- righteousness, and face destruction. It's their choice.
as much as this guy kept interrupting, he made some sense. I would love to see more of him.
True love is impossible without freewill
I think you mean “twue wuv”
Define ‘true love’.
I think somehow God has it all figured out. I don't think it's because we won't have something tempting us rather I think our hearts, minds and spirits will be renewed. There are angels that are aware of good and evil and have never chosen evil or sinning. I think it will be like that, whatever that is. No one really knows but I think it has something to do with our choice to obey God
shantor100
I mean just think about Isaiah at the throne room! This was a Holy man of God who is transferred to the thrown room of God and the presence of God is just so bright and Holy that even the angels cover their feet and eyes! So Holy that even Isaiah being a fairly good son of God was ashamed of his words! He says, “Mourn for me; I’m ruined! I’m a man with unclean lips, and I live among a people with unclean lips. Yet I’ve seen the king, the Lord of heavenly forces!” And all the angels are saying in His presence is, “Holy, holy, holy is the Lord of heavenly forces!
All the earth is filled with God’s glory!”
So with all that in mind, we will know how unclean we were in the presence of a Holy God and never want to turn back. Our attention will eternally be fixed on Him and we will eternally be in awe of the everlasting God.
I agree and i think God has allowed the fall to happpen etc. So that we can learn what sin is in this life and the consequences of it. I know through many of my sins I have learnt to deeply hate them and I don't want to ever make those sins again. I compare it to a kid with homework. Sometimes a kid will do their homework simply because they are told they must because they don't want to get into trouble rather than because he/she wants genuinely to do their homework. God wants us to choose him and obey him because we want to, because we desire goodness and hate sin and want to be freed from it. Not just because we feel we must. He wants us to have a deeper understanding of how bad sin is by experiencing the consequences.
When we hide His word(Will) in our hearts, it helps us not to sin Psalm 119:11, then gradually our mind is renewed as we daily study the scriptures Romans 12:2; Ephesians 4:23-32, that also helps us to walk in the Spirit, and shines us back into the way when if and when we stray. That enables us to daily put off the old man, while putting on the new man; and if we continue, it will be wasy to be changed to the glorious body as of Jesus Christ for as He is in heaven, so are we in this world- just continue till the end. 1John 4:17.
@@YeshuaSaves3 There's so much more than just singing and praising what about individual Free-Will and Individual Identity?
Ghost In The Shell's The Laughing Man
Jesus’s heart was to be one with The Fathers Will and that’s how we are to be too. In full submission to God because in our “individuality” we can easily walk astray on our own path sinning and identifying with that sin. Jesus came to save the captives but if we are captive to sin and hold onto sin (which someone can say is their personal identity) then they can never be saved from the prison that this sin creates.
Aside from that, there is individuality in our talents and the gifts God has given to His children. We all come together to make up The Body of Christ and that’s a beautiful thing WHEN we are doing it in Gods will and not our own selfish/prideful ways.
Valid question, I hope this conversation is recorded in depth. I'd like to hear it, thank you
Sometimes the only answer is "We don't know." It's ok to not have an answer for every hard theological question.
Ignorance can be very costly. "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge " Thus, "With all your getting, get understanding ...buy wisdom and sell it not..."
Were never going to understand the mind of God fully.
I don't know exactly why God chose to create humans the exact way he did. But he's God and he is good and he was able to make the choice to create beings to give them the ability to freely love Him.
God doesn't owe anybody an explanation as to why he created the world. He created it if you gave us a chance to choose him and even when we didn't he gives us the chance for Redemption.
This guy is asking really good question as to why couldn't Heaven be the original set up - and Frank has a good answer.
In heaven we are redeemed. We will have been given glorified bodies. And we will be in the presence of God and there will be no need for sin, pain, hunger etc
If God made Heaven the setup from the start then we wouldn't have been creatures given Free Will and the ability to choose him.
Dallas Kinard, thank you so much Brother. This comment is extremely overlooked. Yeshua Hamashiach Bless and keep you wherever you go🙏♥️🕊️
I think the question really boils down to: if god could give us free will and create a perfect society than why not do it?
That would be senseless to do because there would be no character building challenges to overcome. There would be no pain, thus no gain.
Well, would that not make us like, unthinking, unfeeling robots?
@@shandiwarren6454 why would it?
@@MichealQuinm Oh wait I misunderstood your question. I think we could argue that He did do that with the Garden of Eden- but then Adam and Eve still sinned.
@@shandiwarren6454 perfect society = two people walking around in a giant garden being tempted to eat forbidden fruit by the devil?
I had the same thought/question when I was living my sinful life . We desire things of this world and it was hard to imagine living somewhere with limited choices . The truth is the choices aren't limited in heaven . In heaven we would have zero flaws and needs . It wouldn't even be a option to sin in the new world .
No option to sin therefore means no free will. This seems to be what frank won’t say but the question clearly gets right
@@PHILHAMILT0N sin is a choice . If the choice to do something wrong does not exist then it's logical to not have sin . It's our body's on earth they cause us to sin . Sex money and power . Imagine if you don't need any of that because you have everything you can imagine
@@dsanti4069 Yep. So "free will" will no longer exist
@@PHILHAMILT0N free will will exist but we will have a wisdom and glorified body that makes us not to ever sin. Why do people sin ? Money sex drugs , power. If you don't need any of that in heaven , then , what will motivate someone to sin .
In heaven we will have the nature of Christ in us . That along with the wisdom and love of God around is at all time .
@@dsanti4069 "Body makes us not to ever sin" - this means no free will to sin. Don't get me wrong. I see this as a great thing. "Free will" is definitely not the good thing that many proclaim it to be.
In "heaven" glorified men are in subjection to God (1 Corinthians 15:28) and slaves of God (Revelation 22:4). But BECAUSE of the glorified body, the motive of power simply isn't there.
He links free will to sin. Actually he seems to equate free will to sin. As in he does not understand that free will can exist without sin.
But still his question just seems to be IF we can make a choice to sin, then how can it be that there will never be a choice to sin in heaven.
Sin is missing the mark of perfection that is God. So why could God not have created the end without the beginning basically. If there will exist a system that humans can live in and have free will and not sin then why could that not have been the first state?
The answer given is that the first state was one of innocence and the second state was one of redemption. And being in innocence without a possibility of sin is less perfect than being redeemed without a possibility of sin.
So God to make us more like Him and to truly make us his children had to allow this system to play out.
At least i think thats the question and answer if the guy had given his own question more thought and allowed for the answer to be fully expressed.
Phillip Sardinha “And being in innocence without the possibility of sin is less perfect than being redeemed without the possibility of sin.”
So redeemed man in heaven will be even more perfect than God himself who never sinned (innocent) and cannot sin?
Or are you trying to say that the reason God is so perfect now is because he did sin and was himself redeemed by some greater God, thus now we must reach this new level of perfection to be perfect enough?
(btw I’m just using you’re terminology and line of reasoning for the sake of argument bc there’s no such thing as less perfect, there’s just perfect or not perfect; else how “less perfect” does one have to become before they’re no longer perfect? Perfect meaning-1. having all the required or desirable elements, qualities, or characteristics; as good as it is possible to be. Or, 2. absolute; complete.)
You said, “Sin is missing the mark of perfection that is God.” And, “So God to make us more like him and to truly make us his children had to allow this system to play out.”
Again, if going through a process of redemption from a fallen state is superior to never falling in the first place then either God fell and was redeemed himself or redeemed man is “more perfect” than God.
“...free will can exist without sin.”
False. To lack a faculty by which one could disobey a command rather than obey it is to lack free will. Will by definition is: “the faculty by which a person decides on and initiates action.” Free will would be the ability to decide on and initiate actions whether or not they line up with another entity’s will. Hence “free” as in to do whatever is decided upon by one with said will. Therefore if this faculty is still free to use freely in heaven then for all of eternity man would be capable of committing the same sin of pride as satan. And whoops gotta start all over.
@@gracebrown3074 I believe God allowed this fall so that our love could be perfect, as in literally cannot get any better(stronger). Otherwise it would be like a rich, spoiled kid who takes what they have for granted and don't realize what they have if they never lose it. When we do get to that sinless state, the love and appreciation will be infinitely better than if we were always in a sinless state because we wouldn't understand what it meant to be without it.
@@ta13s93 Actually I think you can have free-will without sin, I believe that the knowledge of Good and Evil itself is natural, its just that the physical abuse of the knowledge of Evil is the problem... IE Sin ;D
The gospel is the GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM!
Repent and believe the gospel! Follow Jesus’ teachings!
Jesus is going to return and set up the kingdom of God ON THE EARTH! God’s government ON THE EARTH! The Messiah will resurrect his people! The destiny of the Messiah and his people is to be ON THE EARTH! The renewed restored earth! God also dwelling with them! Rev 21
Jesus said the Father is the only true God!
John 17
3 And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.
RSV
Only-monos
God-theos
Monos theos
Monotheism
The Father
Jesus is the one sent by the true God (the Father)!
Jesus never claimed to be God, Jesus said he has a God!
Jesus has a God!
Jesus died!
God can’t die!
God raised Jesus from the dead!
@@ta13s93 i can only imagine that all of sin exists and God being omni- everything must know more than creation. Man, angel, etc.
Do you think the fall of lucifer or man was beyond the scope of God because He has never sinned? What about any sin?
Ill presume you would answer that knowledge and aspect of existence (a sinful fallen state) is completely apart from God. While I add that it still something that God being greater encompasses in the grander realm of Omni- that is God.
But innocent man knows nothing until the fall. The spark of the thought manifesting in an action of disobedience against your Supreme Creator. But the knowledge and eventual journey to salvation amd redemtpion I say is a Better state than the state of innocence.
But isnt innocent created man 'good' as defined by God? Yet still it is better to be elevated to child of God redeemed with a new body to live in house of the Lord.
So i hope that explains my more perfect line, i know the definition doesn't allow for it...yet i dont see how infinity can be greater than infinity but still it is
Without free will there´s no love... and God (the creator) is LOVE !!
I don’t think i have free will yet i can love
Please let the man answer the question.
Exactly!! It's like dude, be quiet!
No kidding. This is like when I was a tutor, people would ask a question and then always interrupts as I was answering!
I felt like smacking him across the face to let the guy answer the question.
@@koser19721 i know it can be hard but love thy neighbour man
@@mitchellc4Mark 12:28-31
The Great Commandment
28 And one of the scribes came up and heard them disputing with one another, and seeing that he answered them well, asked him, “Which commandment is the most important of all?”
29 Jesus answered, “The most important is, ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one. 30 And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’
31 The second is this: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.”
His main concern was that with the fall of Satan, having free will and being in Gods glory (meaning no need for anything), fell from heaven, why will it be different for humans when we are in heaven with God? If there is free will cant we make the same choice satan did? Franks answer that "we arent fulfilled here and will be there" doesnt QUITE suffice given the fall for satan, though it id say because we have tasted sin and rebellion from God, that we wouldnt want to go down that road again because were with God. we dont have to ask the "what if" question like satan did because we had "what if" here. that was the point of us falling. we tasted sin so we dont gotta taste it again. PLUS God knows what will happen and we will have free will in heaven and he wont let anyone in who would have that flight risk of going dark. thats the purpose of having true hearts for God on earth, and not just claiming him with out mouth.
Quad Tucker We all run into that question eventually: If the angels fell will we not also have the possibility of falling? Thanks for your answer. Yes, we are creatures who’ve known both states experientially: Having been separated from him, having been united with him. Satan thought he could become like God and rise to the throne. But we’ve had demonstrated to us that we are creations and the throne belongs only to God. All our effort to refute it end in suffering and disaster. We won’t entertain that delusion bc we already ran that course and ended up on our knees in humility. When unbelievers ask why a loving God would give free will to us knowing we could die from it - this is why! Satan had exactly what they seem to be wanting: He had free will plus eternal reward and he never had to fall and suffer. That ended badly wouldn’t you say? In an allegorical sense Satan is the Judas of heaven. Judas’ betrayal was the avenue to the sacrifice that redeemed the rest. Likewise, Satans fall and all the failure it produced brings us to realize that God alone is God and we are not. Thus the first temptation was to believe we could rise up and take the throne! A repeat of what Lucifer tried in heaven. At this point we are asked why would God have made Lucifer and Judas to begin with? Isn’t that cruel? He knew they would fall but they did not have to. Just like you. Everything, every argument, every doubt, only leads to the question: What will YOU do with free will? Will you fight God for the throne or bow?
I love that you use the term ‘flight risk’ lol bc that’s what we fear isn’t it? We’re afraid we’ll be a flight risk, we won’t be stable, we’ll fail. Jesus provided everything to prepare us for life and for heaven so that we don’t have to suffer FOFR.
@@meleshenko3767 100% you hit the nail on the head
@@meleshenko3767 im glad you caught that cause i smiled when i thought of that term like "this is the literal perfect term to use"
*cough* if you can help me in replies below *cough*. trying to spread the gospel on youtube XD
I like the point he made about a difference between the “innocent” creation in the beginning (Adam and Eve) contra the “redeemed” creation (Christians) entering heaven. The difference being that we as the redeemed followers of Christ now know that life with God is sufficient and includes everything we’ll ever need (Relationship with him that is) which is why we’ll never turn away from God.
@Robert Borg do you have free-will in Heaven? Do you have individual imagination? Do you just sing and praise forevermore? What happened to the New Heavens and New Earth? I'll let you think on this ;D
Ghost In The Shell's The Laughing Man I am excited for the New World/Earth. We would have vastly increased intelligence and can teleport and go through walls. I am serious, this is a proper eschatological doctrine. But most importantly, to witness the beatific vision.
Gosh ! that's will be BORING.....stare at god for all eternity....as a ghost is not pleasant....and ghosts smell of garlic....aaarrrggghhh !
@@ateoforever7434 As a ghost? People are ghosts in Eternity?
@@thelogiclockedwithinhuman8285 Yep...our bodies with time will become dust, surely you don't believe that our bodies thousands of years later " reforms " to the original state...there's nothing but dust and specks of bones. So, what's going to heaven ? nothing...because our " soul " IS THE BRAIN...it will rot and fade away, look at people with dementia....they are living dead, a walking corpse with no mind. dementia killed the brain functions, goodbye" soul "....
I guess my answer if I was asked this would be...
1. In order for us to choose God we would need to have the option of sin...
2. By experiencing this fallen world we have the option to choose between redemption (giving up our sins to be with God)
3. So if we did no longer have the capability of sin in heaven, then it would be something we elected to have done, and that would be the free will.
4. In conclusion, only by being in the fallen earth and experiencing sin are we allowed the free will to CHOOSE between God and that sin. Hope that is helpful
that makes perfect sense! Thanks!
Kinda make sense! I always wonder if all these SAGA of sending Christ to die for us is necessary? Like why not the future heaven state where sin does not exist from the start? I thought that God was unwise to create a being so vulnerable to sin! But based on your theory, it seems like it is necessary for humans to sin, in order to get to the future Heaven where sin no longer exist
I don't know if he is necessarily asking to understand, but rather to have some response of opposition without even really listening. Pride.
Only Jesus can save. Glory to God
I get his point completely, now that being said I still recognize I'm a sinner and need and accept Jesus as my saviour in my life, but also understand that all my questions cant completely be answered here. I trust that God will make it completely clear when we're with Him. Praise the Lord. Our Redemption draws nigh!!!!
WOOOOOOO HOOOOOO!!!!!
Yeah, sucks for those billions of non-Christians around the world. WOOOOOO HOOOOOO!!!!!
/s
This was a good answer by Frank. The young man seemed to be interested in pinning the consequences of sin on God, rather than recognizing how humanity chooses sin. The example of innocence versus redemption is the key. Only through personal transformation, the indwelling spirit, do fallen beings understand and choose (can choose) what is best - which is God's will. Innocent beings have no understanding of this, but still retain the capacity to choose things for their lack of foresight. To say, why didn't God make it so that human beings started off right away with the ability to love perfectly is a contradiction. It would require that God imbue Adam and Eve with all knowledge of good and evil but no forward-moving experience to back up their ability to make choices. In essence, they would be God themselves.
So, keeping all that in mind, I think that sums it up, lol.
I love your answer
@@DruPetty42 Thank you.
Very well organized, clear and concise. I also would like to add:
Ephesians 6:12
For our wrestling is not against flesh and blood, but against the principalities, against the powers, against the world-rulers of this darkness, against the spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.
2 Thessalonians 2: 9-13
Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
@@thewriterslens5689 it doesn't explain why the angels stayed completely good without having to be redeemed.
@@MrShaiya96 The only thing I can answer to that is how angels are not made in the image of God. They are not image-bearers like we are. The apostle Paul even writes that "we will judge angels someday" which would imply authority with God as co-leaders over the eventual New Heavens and New Earth. God will dwell among His creation and His creation will dwell with Him in completedness. The angels are not afforded this same prize or reward.
The questioner assumes there is no freedom of choice in heaven but the bible clearly states that the angels chose to disobey God and rebel. He states he was an atheist before so cut him some slack people, he'll grow..
So you aren't guaranteed to stay in heaven once you get there? What about hell? Do you have the freedom to still choose God there? If not, why the one way street for this freedom? If so, couldn't it be true that God will eventually save all people?
Read your Bible, it says exactly what you will be like and what’s to come. Anything after that that is not written is God’s will.
@@devindaniels1379 Well the last info we have of the story of mankind is that God will restore the earth and the people of God will live in the "new Jerusalem" We will not live in heaven. The bible gives references to the similarities between heaven and earth such as roads of gold, mansions (houses), seas and even heavenly food (manna) its basically a return to the state of adam and eve where perfection is restored, evil and the freedom of choice still exists except this time there will be no option for redemption just like the angels who sinned and were basically sentenced straight to hell. So once a person is sentenced to hell (human or angelic) there is no way out but the options for both (human and angelic) are the same, choose to obey God and remain in heaven or disobey and be sentenced to hell permanently.
No one knows for sure whats the truth but I think if we examine the scriptures we can make some educated guesses.
@@danielb5721 Okay. Thanks for your thoughts. Still seems odd to me is all. I've been told the free will was necessary to allow for a true love relationship that God wants. That doesn't seem to be the case if it is love me or be in hell with no hope of getting out. It just seems to me that for the love defense of free will's necessity, there would need to be other options that aren't horrible. It seems more like love if you pick your spouse (for example) out of all the other people in the world rather than out of the only other option of being eternally tormented.
@@devindaniels1379
I've theorized that there's the chain of command of forgiveness...
God cannot go back on his laws so he allowed Jesus to take the punishment and extend Grace.
the Bible says that Christians will judge angels in heaven..
but what Angels would need judging except the fallen?
so perhaps Christians who are given power by Jesus can free the fallen Angels who can in turn free their own captors: the people in hell.
this is not biblical and I cannot say it's true, it is just my thought.
2:30 “some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.”- Alfred from Batman
As the world burns.. I would like to piss on the ashes of humanity, for which other man is so like the lord God, other than myself.
When we meet Jesus, we'll want to be just like him.. Heaven will be so great they'll be no need to sin and wouldn't ever want to be apart from him.
If we deny ourselves and chose God in a fallen world like this. “Free Will” won’t even matter in heaven. Our will IS His will. As the bride of Christ we want his will regardless because he’s know what’s best for us. This is what it means to fully submit. We submit now and we submit for ETERNITY. Amen ✝️
I'm geniunely fascinated by the questions and answers in Frank's videos, but frustrated by many of the people asking the questions. They don't seem to want an actual answer, just an opportunity to argue. They ask a question, Frank gets two or three words out, and they cut him off with "yeah but..." and pick up talking again. It's annoyingly common and I applaud Frank's patience with them. I would say the majority of these videos are like that. I can't tell if they don't actually want the answer, or they just assume what he's going to say and don't like it. It seems basic communication skills are disappearing.
I think Frank's answers should have asserted this discussion was conjecture loosly based on Biblical truths coupled with philosophical speculation. Only God knows these things and I think it benefits everyone to just say, "I don't know. But, here is what I think we can assume. And, here is what I consider as a possible explanation."
My sentiment exactly
I like that response very much! Well played, Eric.
Angels apparently had a choice (free will) per say when they decided to follow satan. I mean what is genuine love if it was programmed or without a test of faith. Think about your significant other, would you want someone forced or programmed to love you or know they genuinely love you for who you are. The biggest difference is God shows unconditional love, something most human beings lack.
I love your post will said thank you God bless have a good day
In other words, God created man in HIS image, and God isn't a robot. If he didn't want man to fall, then he would've created robots to do everything thing he wanted...that is, to be autonomous. But you can't really love a robot, and robots can't love you back...That would make existence pretty lonely for God.
@@stormykeep9213 God wouldn't be lonely. God is self-sustaining.
@Ruben S Immoral to your standards. Cause God is THE standard for good.
Absolutely, if God wasn’t the standard, and immoral you wouldn’t even be able to make your statement. You wouldn’t have a comparison of love or to justify what’s a figment or not. Your perspective is only encompassed by your local surroundings, so you’re limited on the truth.
We will be one with God, we in Christ and Christ in God.
Paul said, I'm crucified with Christ nevertheless I live, yet not I but Christ lives in me. He that is joined to God is one spirit.
Grace and Peace.
So, if Lucifer had free will but no need to sin, then why did he sin? He was in heaven. He was the leader of worship. I get that he wanted to elevate himself above God, but if there is going to be no motive to sin when we get to heaven, why was there a motive before? Why couldn't someone in heaven decide they wanted to be above God and start this thing all over again? Just an interesting thought I had on this video.
This poor guy looks rude but he is only trying to redirect Frank to answer his questions. I know that desperate feeling that it might be his only chance to ask this question he never had answer to. He didn't get it this time either. Frank couldn't answer this simple question:
Why God didn't put everyone in the heaven from the first place?
He did. It was called the garden of eden.
Exactly! Frankie continued to redirect the answer so the poor guy had to try to get back to the actual topic.
@@AMPStorm eden was not heaven.
@@michaelanderson4849 no it wasn’t but it was created in the likeness of heaven a place of perfect peace until sin fell in it
@@Gp39454 It was not. The descriptions does not match. For example in Eden man was described to live as a "couple" while in heaven they are described to not live as couples.
"a place of perfect peace"
Yeah, about that. The angels were living in "perfect peace" in the direct presence of god, yet a bunch decided to give him the finger. So either that perfect peace is not correct or something stinks up there.
But since this is all silly mythology anyway, it does not matter in reality.
That kid didn't want to hear the answers to his questions.
I agree
No he just wanted to make sure frank answered his actual question.
No, he is just a kid.
The gospel is the GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM!
Repent and believe the gospel! Follow Jesus’ teachings!
Jesus is going to return and set up the kingdom of God ON THE EARTH! God’s government ON THE EARTH! The Messiah will resurrect his people! The destiny of the Messiah and his people is to be ON THE EARTH! The renewed restored earth! God also dwelling with them! Rev 21
Jesus said the Father is the only true God!
John 17
3 And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.
RSV
Only-monos
God-theos
Monos theos
Monotheism
The Father
Jesus is the one sent by the true God (the Father)!
Jesus never claimed to be God, Jesus said he has a God!
Jesus has a God!
Jesus died!
God can’t die!
God raised Jesus from the dead!
I disagree. Frank didn't quite answer his question
I’m just afraid I won’t be myself anymore and I’ll just be brain washed to do what god wants that’s my big fear about the eternal state
I sometimes share the same worry.
But you have to remember that God is the only source of happiness in the universe (because he made it) and he intends to give us what will really make us happy (if we will let him).
Think of yourself as a complex machine (you basically are) and only your designer knows what’s best for you. Guess it just takes a little faith that he has our best interest in his heart.
You 100 percent won't be your worldly self, you will clearly see this world's pathways of thought and their sources and you will know you chose the truth. You are still thinking with a worldly mind, it makes sense that way to you because your glasses are dark and blurry. Ask him to show you. Keep asking amd asking and asking instead of once and turning away because "aha! I knew it it was useless" this is again the worldly pathway of thought ask for a peice of God's mind.
@@nathanyoung5620 that’s why Bible says “ no eye has ever seen or no ear has ever heard before what God have for those who love Him”. So it’s something spectacular that we will always be happy about and spend time happily with Him”.
@Tyler Brown
In His presence you will only be filled with love, truth and understanding. He is a loving God, manipulation is of the dark side.
I liked the question from the questioner. I think it was a very sincere, valid, and intelligent question, and as a Christian, I often ask myself questions like this, as well. I think my answer to the questioner would’ve been that creating a stable, Cause-and-Effect Universe with Free Will inherently built into human beings necessitated certain creation parameters. To have free will, you have to be able to choose Rebellion. One of the key differences between a Pre-Fallen human being like Adam and a Post-Redeemed Christian living in Heaven one day is that the Future Christian understands the consequences of sin whereas Adam did not. There is no way Adam could’ve foreseen all the destruction and misery he and Eve’s disobedience would bring on this world, even with God’s warning to them, whereas a Christian one day living in Heaven knows better based off of personal experience. You could almost view our Earthly lives as emperical databases in the making for moral decisions, and it will serve as a sobering reminder that sin doesn’t work; we proved it ourselves in our Earth-lives. I think that that sobering reminder, coupled with a Redeemed physical body free from the sin nature currently inherent in human beings will be two key factors that motivate Christians NOT TO SIN in Heaven.
So basically, the reason the system wasn’t designed that way from the beginning is NOT because of a deficiency on God’s part but because of a lack of proper knowledge/respect of sin on our part. We will have the same free will in Heaven as if we did in a Pre-Fallen earth, but we will understand now that sin is B A D, not just from God’s warning (which should have been enough) but also from experience.
I definitely believe the Fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom, but I would wager that respectful fear of sin is also a form of wisdom, something Free-Fallen human beings (Adam and Eve) apparently did not have.
Good response.
I haven’t read the Bible in entirety, but is there a part of the scripture that says we will remember all of the horrible things that happened because of sin? If we don’t retain this memory, won’t we be back at the drawing board where Adam and Eve were where we don’t know the consequences of sin and only know that God has asked us to obey him?
Your response saved my life
What an excellent answer.. u r an awesomely amazing person Frank turek...love u from India
Hes basically saying God could have created a world that was perfect and just love no free will but instead chose to create a world that allowed evil to exist
In a world without free will love doesn't exist either
We're forever covered by sacrifice of Jesus. Christians have free will now and still sin at times and are still saved. We're forever saved.
Frank answered this dude's question clearly with what he thought he was asking. I could tell Frank was getting a little annoyed because the dude wasn't listening fully to the answer. I thought Mr. Turek handled it quite well and in a pleasant way told the guy to "shut up and sit down; you're holding up the line".
He dodged his question....he didn't even slightly address it. The guy had a valid question...Frank just had a poor answer.
@@Aaron637
Which question was dodged?
@@michaelwill7811 thank you😁
Glorified body equals eternal and perfect incorruptible body,with a perfect mind,and a perfect heart. We are given an amazing gift that will able to be in Gods presence and not burn up. Amen
Would you love someone who forced themself on you? If they held you at gunpoint telling you that you're gonna love them (like it or not)?
So many people think it but few can articulate it. It can be confusing but its understandable. This man wonders why God would create us with free will if it would ultimately cause so much pain and suffering. In the end the answer will make far better sense than it does to him now but it is the redemptive power and purpose of God that matters most. It will outweigh the blows of sin, shame and even death. The choice to choose and love God as we come to know him is amazing. Especially from the standpoint of a sin-nature (the desire to reject him). God's grace and mercy is a real thing. Blessings to you all!
That still leaves the question... why didn’t he create a universe without the need for all these hoops to jump through? God created a universe where he had to sacrifice himself to himself for mistakes he made.
+ That's why he is the embodiment of LOVE. Think of it this way:
HE (God) is LOVE. For LOVE to exist among beings it needs Free will. Love without freewill cannot exist.
God:
1)Creates the universe...and in that instant he sees we are frail and will not seek to do good for each other, but will continue to do evil towards each other.
2)He wants to reveal himself to US, because he is LOVE. Yet, without turning the 180 degree concept of LOVE and Freewill on its head. But can't just yet and has to wait till it's the right time. To place himself on earth to show us the way.
3) He comes to earth. Still gives us free will by not OVERTLY showing himself to each and everyone that exist and will ever exist...because new people are constantly being born. If he did that he would remove free will and thus love cannot exists.
4) He lets us find him through free will...seeking him.
raynize1 Did Lucifer have free will?
@@zynnfindo4776
Yes he did. He chose to rebel against God. All creatures have free will. There are consequences though to those free will choices.
In Satan's case he was immediately removed from the presence of God.
raynize1 so if it is possible to know the extent of gods omnipotence, omnibenevolence, omniscience etc and still retain our free will then why would god create this flawed and arbitrary path to knowledge of him? If he did not know how his creation was going to play out then he is not omniscient/omnipotent. If he did but proceeded without improving his plan, knowing that he would condemn life to suffering because of flaws he created, then he is morally bankrupt.
The things you are arguing are mental gymnastics in order to justify pre-existing beliefs. This is fallacious.
raynize1 I am not attempting to complain. Merely pointing out the flaws in this line of reasoning.
My point is god could have created us in a state where these issues did not arise. Full stop. If god has all of the Omni-characteristics then he can do this. The fact that he did not and condemned huge portions of humanity to Hell for it is unjust. There is no reason he had to obfuscate his existence or make honest inquiry dangerous.
Why must the universe have meaning? Why must our existence be assigned meaning? What meaning does scripture give us? To worship god or face damnation? I think that cheapens our existence. I wake up every day and get to find my own meaning. Family, friends, hobbies, humanity etc etc etc..
Morality is a different issue. You are correct, there is no absolute morality. But there are fundamentals we can all agree on. If something increases well being it can be considered generally good. If it decreases well being it can be considered generally bad. This can become much more complex depending on circumstances but at its core it is very simple. We live among others and it is our best interest to coexist in a way which benefits as many people as possible. Almost no one would go out and start harming people tomorrow because we found out there was no god because we understand there are consequences and also don’t wish to be harmed ourselves. Furthermore, do you believe owning and/or beating another human being almost to death is morally correct? How about punishing family members for crimes committed by their relatives? Genocide?
The gentleman wanted God to create a perfect world where everyone does not choose right or wrong which at the end boils down to no freedom of choice.
You can't blame God for peoples choices.
But at the end of the day Paul writes
Roman's 9:21
Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use?
22What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory- 24even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles?
@Douglas Davis Please cite your observable,testable,repeatable eveidence for no "God!"
Let me guess another non scientist talking science!
Got to love it!
@Douglas Davis
Lol Grammar,spelling,punctuation
Insults is the sign of a weak arguement.
So since you can't provide proof that there isn't a GOD according to your standard, I don't have to provide proof that there is.
So this is a dead arguement !
Yes I have the proof this is easy.
When you give me your proof ,I will give you my proof.
Got to love the Atheist who claim science and yet are not scientists lol
I can't even take them serious anymore lol
Am I being punked?
Lol where are the cameras?
@Douglas Davis lol been to the moon!
Oh man stop it man your killing me.😂🤣
This guy wants me to believe that a scientist would waste his time arguing like a child on youtube lol.
Please stop 😂🤣I have to show this to my Christian friends this is funny.
He calls me the crackpot, thanks for the laughs.😂
He asked me what scientific credentials do I have. 😂🤣😂
Logic he says oh my😂🤣
@Douglas Davis Oh man lol 🤣😂
I don't have any evidence that you even been to the nearest wal mart! 🤣😂
@Douglas Davis You still don't get it lol
You are imposing a question on me that you yourself can't answer 🤣😂 Mr.Scientific genius who walked on the moon.
I can slow it down for you if you need me to.
I can answer your question with ease.
But since you can't answer the very same question that you imposed on me the arguement is dead.
A scientist would never ask someone to answer a question that they themselves can't answer.
You're just a normal guy picking on Christians for whatever God forsaken reason.
You should be ashamed.
Can this guy just get to the question he wanted to ask in the first place rather than asking random questions that he will end up interrupting?
The gospel is the GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM!
Repent and believe the gospel! Follow Jesus’ teachings!
Jesus is going to return and set up the kingdom of God ON THE EARTH! God’s government ON THE EARTH! The Messiah will resurrect his people! The destiny of the Messiah and his people is to be ON THE EARTH! The renewed restored earth! God also dwelling with them! Rev 21
Jesus said the Father is the only true God!
John 17
3 And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.
RSV
Only-monos
God-theos
Monos theos
Monotheism
The Father
Jesus is the one sent by the true God (the Father)!
Jesus never claimed to be God, Jesus said he has a God!
Jesus has a God!
Jesus died!
God can’t die!
God raised Jesus from the dead!
My question is how can God be omniscient and we have free will at the same time? If I create something knowing what it’s going to do before I make it then I am creating it to do what I know it’s going to do. Like creating a robot and programming it to go about doing what it’s going to do. In a sense I am then omniscient where that robot is concerned. If that robot decides to short-circuit and go haywire and starts doing its own thing it would then have free will and I therefore would no longer be omniscient.
God knows your decision he doesn't force you to do it
He made it bc it was the only way for TRUE love. if we just got love there was no way to recognize it bc we have no had pain, so happiness without pain isn’t happiness, and we could never feel the fullness of joy without fall
What happens when you put something in front of a light?
A shadow appears.
Satan introduced evil to the world.
And it is because of Satan that we can find ourselves in the shadow rather than the light.
Analogously, once the obstacle is removed from the picture, only then will we always be in the light.
That's the way I understand it.
But the bottom line is that God has hidden things from our minds for our betterment.
So focus on Jesus, and give Him all the glory!
I like that
Amen!
But Jesus is a liar for he said he would answer all of your prayer. He turned his back on humanity because he is ignorant and deludes people.
@@nev357 be specific
@@KittyChanU2 bible states that jesus will answer all of your prayer. But no prayers are answered any more than if you didnt pray. What part of "All your prayer will be answered" is not clear..but all prayers are not answered, so jesus or the bible is lies.
How can any living person describe the after life since you have to be dead to witness heaven. So to describe heaven is lying therefore God will not let liars into heaven for lying is a sin.
Heaven is the worst illusion created by humanity. Do not go any where for eternity, it is a very bad idea.
I am not sure if it’s a cultural thing to suddenly cut the other person while responding a question and to add the “yayayaya” Sounds for me that this young man wants to make his reasoning valid that God created evil which is not. In fact, evil is the absence of good like darkness is the absence of light but we know for sure that God is good. He have a point but not sincerely enough to make his case and pass to eternity freely.
It could be that, or maybe he's had this conversation a lot with people and is frustrated/impatient with the common path it takes. It's not an appropriate reaction in a conversation but it could be an explaining factor.
I hope this guy doesn't some of these larger philosophical questions take the spotlight away from his relationship with Jesus Christ (said from experience).
I think he's totally confused bcoz of indian influence, his family think in indian not in western!
The mythical God of the Bible did In fact CREATE EVIL, Read the Bible Isaiah 45:7 ..I make peace, and create evil... Read the whole thing your self
You need to understand the context. In Hebrew evil can refer to many things for example adversity, affliction, calamity, distress, misery. as well as moral evil. Given the fact the bible clearly states that God is not the authour of evil the meaning of evil in this passage means something else nice try though.
It's a weird conundrum, in general, mankind is angry at God for allowing suffering to occur. But yet when we talk about Heaven all mankind can think about is there's no free will in Heaven. Well... If we make it to Heaven, it won't be because of our good works. God says we cannot make it into Heaven through works alone. Yet people would bring up questions like that. Basically they're saying they still want free will in Heaven so that they can sin and rebel again. That's really sad. And I'm pretty sure if that's our intentions to begin with, then God is not going to let these people into Heaven period...
Christians serve Christ. It’s in our hearts, it’s in the soul, in heaven in our glorified state, our servitude to Christ is everlasting. There is no room for rebellion
I will answer this question very simply. Yes you have free will in heaven, how do I know? Because the origin of evil (as the guy asks about) actually comes from the fact that the angels had free will, so much so that Satan (one of the highest angels) abandoned heaven and God for the material world. And as for the question he asks about why God has us go through all of this if people will be lost is because (as the bible describes) God is like a gardener tending to a tree, we are the tree (family tree if you like) the gardener has to cut off the parts of the tree that are dead and arent producing any fruit. We must go through this life because the entirety of it is ment to help us grow and mature enough to be allowed to inherit such a infinity amazing gift like heaven. God did this because he wants us to retain our personal consciousness and free will as individuals but also wants us to recognize we are all connected through the same spirit that is in all things and because of that all living things deserve our love as if it was ourselves, he wants us to be free thinking but also selfless and loving. And God is right to do so because eternal love and happiness shouldnt be given to those who only want it for themselves or who to those who wont truly appreciate it
I love your answer
+Andrew Petty Yea i love it too, in fact we dont need to read bible because we have these philosopher.
So then, just like Satan, we would be free to choose to do evil once we are in heaven, did I understand you correctly?
Basically comparing human life to dead branches and trying to make it sound nice.
You peoples' morality is so twisted and hopelessly fucked up.
Altitude I don’t agree that we will have free will in heaven at all, while on this earth we must give up our will, and obey the will of God. Jesus said unless you deny yourself, the picture of Christ in the garden of gethsemane, is a picture of laying down his will, Jesus calls us to be FOLLOWERS of himself, willing to lay down our life, that is deny your own right, your will, and live by his. It’s not possible to live in heaven and still have your own will, that is in contradiction to the requirement of a born again believer, and the word of God.
Our preparation is to live our life in obedience to the word of God, it’s not possible to live in this manner and keep your own will.
In the end of the age of humankind all things will bring glory to the Father!
human kind and man kind is NOT the same, please check into it. Father created man kind NOT human kind!!!!
maplesden Thank you, but I think I will not comment on videos anymore instead!
i think the pastor lost this one... no one knows whats being discussed here. if god knows everything, he could have created a universe where there is no need to sin eventhough we have free will
This was probably the best question so far, it's a shame the speaker didn't know quite how to convey it but it's a really intelligent question.
Basically, if I'm understanding him right, he's asking why God gave us the capacity for evil in this life, but not the next.
Probably the most common argument for the problem of evil (why bad things happen if God is all-powerful and all-good) is the Free Will Defense, that God values our ability to Choose evil or Choose Him so highly it that it's better to allow all the suffering in history than to rob us of that free will.
This guy is asking ""but there's no free will of that kind in Heaven, we don't have the ability to choose evil there, which implies that God does Not value free will as much as we thought. If God doesn't find Free Will to be valuable enough to keep in heaven, why did he create us with free will on Earth, at the cost of all human suffering that ever has been or will be? Why didn't he just create the Earth to have no free will and therefore no evil, like Heaven?""
Frank did well with how he answered but it's hard to answer someone who keeps cutting you off.
If one has a million dollars, there is no temptation to steal a penny. We will have everything we need. We will be perfect, with no hangups.
fandude7 wrong wrong so wrong...you’re missing 3 major points here.
First, We have tons of evidence that millionaires steal money. How many tax evasion cases involved millionaires? Just back in April, a man was arrested for shoplifting at Kmart after he just bought an 8 million dollar island off of key west.
Secondly, you’re missing the point. If we don’t have the ability to sin, or do evil, do we really have free will?
Lastly, if you truly believe that, then god could’ve created earth that way. With no one having the temptation to do any wrong. We would be perfect with no hang ups. A perfect, all powerful god could do just that
@@2004appjoe and yet, without Free Will, we would not *choose* to love God, it would be forced on us.
I realize some people would love to have a robot for a spouse, but I am not one of them. Someone *choosing* to love me, like me, be my friend, etc... Seem logical?
Michael Will I don’t actually think you choose who you love anymore than you can choose to decide you can fly. I can’t choose to love someone I despise. You either love someone for certain reasons or you don’t.
But when it comes to god, from what I get from most Christians, they believe he created every human and is all omniscient and omnipotent. Meaning he created you and I, knowing if you and I would love him, even before he created us.
For example, If I created you, knowing that you wouldn’t love me, does that still give you free will? Can you choose to love me, when I created you knowing you wouldn’t love me?
@@2004appjoe It seems that our free will doesn't depend on God's knowledge of what we're going to do or not do. Just because God knows our actions beforehand doesn't mean we didn't exercise our free will. It's amazing God gave us free will.
fandude7 i don’t see how...if you were god, and you created someone that could only walk UP TO 2 miles per day, could that person walk MORE than 2 miles per day? Do they have the free will to walk more than 2 miles per day?
Or if god created you blind...do you have the free will to have vision? If god created you knowing you’d go to medical school, do you think you’d change gods plan for you to go to medical school using free will?
You may think you have free will because you’re not privy to gods full knowledge of your future. But if god created you, AND your future, I’d love to know how you think you could change his plan using free will
So why couldn't it be like that at the start?...
Frank: well that would be beca-
Yeah yeah yeah, but I'm not talking about that I'm talking about evil in this world.
Frank: -_-
Jonny Abrego I know right
Felt the same way... the guy listening but not hearing.
Well, a kid...
Our will shall be what God wants when we are transformed
If you won’t let him answer don’t ask the question.
Because only through the fall can we truly know and experience Gods nature, character and attributes.
I believe that in order to have a relationship with God and love God we have to be given free will so we can choose him.
If the Lord had made everything from the start, in a realm where there was no possibility to sin, we would not be there because we chose to be; therefore would not have had free will. So when people ask the meaning of life, I believe it to be so that we can exist in the new heaven and new earth in a meaningful relationship with the creator that we have chosen!
Bible-believing Christian and fan of Frank's...but, this guy just blew holes all in Frank's logic.
Chism Tuggle how ? He answered every question he had , even though he was all over the place , we was not being very clear at all and quite annoying
@@simone_lajoy - Because, and I suspect due to the language barrier, Frank didn't properly address the actual question of the questioner.
His point was, if Free Will is what enables sin now, and God is responsible for free will, is God also not responsible for sin? Furthermore, if free will is the enabler of sinfulness, as it was for Lucifer in Heaven, will it not also be an enabler for sinfulness upon arriving in Heaven for all believers and saints? Therefore enabling another fall from Grace...?
The only way to reconcile this is to assume that God will remove free will from us upon arriving in Heaven. Else, even without "motive" as Frank suggest, we would still be free to CHOOSE something contrary to God's will.
It's important to understand that before we sin, we are tempted. Therefore, if we remove the source of temptation (Satan), and nothing will enter heaven that defiles it, as the Bible expresses, then we will have free will without Satan's temptation.
@@ChismTuggle free will does not enable sin so God cannot be responsible for sin. What enables sin is pride, that has nothing to do with free will. Sin in this context is not just mere sin but challenging the authority of God. Lucifer's sin was him trying to be like God, so was man first sin. He ate the fruit so he could also be like God. Telling yourself you do not need God is the sin in this context. Even if there was no free will Lucifer would still have sinned but would not have been able to take action on the sin that was already in his heart. He already believed in his heart that he's better than God , and because of free will he said I will..., Without free will he would not have been able to say I will...but would have still thought it in his heart that he was better than God.
The problem is choice. Evil isn’t a created thing. Evil is a result of wrong choices. People won’t have a desire to sin or do evil because we will know what ugliness we have been redeemed from. Heaven (new earth) will be so amazing that who would want to anything else.
Why can't we all be immortal and live in heaven when we are born ... it's cause eve at that Apple huh?
The type of ' friut' was never identified in scripture , the ' apple' is Roman Catholic tradition not scripture .
It wasn't the 'fruit' that was the problem , it was Adam and Eves 'disobedience ' that caused the problem .
Had Adam eaten from the tree of Life, he would have been immortal, so he doesn't live forever in his fallen body, God cast them out before they could even think of going near it and posted angel with a flaming sword to keep off would be intruders. So, all believers who endure to the end will be give the fruit from the tree of Life to eat and they will live for eternity. That's the reason we encourage one another until the end.
@@berenc7619 that's why our freewill to trust him must be tried till the end, so we don't mess up again.
We are already immortal. Yes our human body may die but we either go to hell or heaven forever. You can’t die in Heaven or hell. Hell is eternal torture and suffering and you can never get out.
I also asked myself if after reaching heaven we could sin again there and fall again and get back to earth and need to be saved again. 😂
I think the glorified bodies will not be tempted like this one.
I understand his question perfectly. It’s a shame it was missed.
Thank you for this video.
Bad answer here. We don’t have free will to choose God ;he chooses us, dead people cannot choose life.second scripture states that we will be raised incorruptible and it will be impossible to sin.
Don't you just wish Calvin had a time machine and could have set Joshua straight on his theology when he said, "choose ye this day whom ye will serve, whether the gods, etc. ..."? Then, good old Calvin could have helped him out, "actually, you don't choose. You are spiritually dead and God chooses, or doesn't choose, you."
Then, he could jump back in his time machine and help out the Apostle John, who so naively wrote that "God so loved the world that whosoever..." when, of course, God actually only loves the elect, not the world, and dooms the rest. Obviously, 'whosover' cannot freely come to belief, but only those few that God does love.
Maybe then, if Calvin had been able to help make the Bible clearer, as supporting his theology, then guys like this wouldn't give such bad answers.
@@Giant_Meteor choice =/= free will
Choice = will
Desires are enslaved to sin.
We always choose according to our desires (100% of the time). How can it be said mankind is free?
But the will is enslaved to sin so will never desire or choose God...ever. Just like a lion will never choose a bowl of lettuce over a bowl of meat - ever.
Jesus said the one that sins is a slave of sin. Slaves are not free. Given our fallen natures no one can choose God of their own accord. "No one seeks God not one" - Paul in Romans. No one comes to Christ unless it has been granted by the father.
John 6
“Does this [o]offend you? 62 What then if you should see the Son of Man ascend where He was before? 63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh [ie ur own human will/mind ] profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life. 64 Butthere are some of you who do not believe.”For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who would betray Him. 65 And He said, “Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father.”
Why? Because our hearts are bent on sin and we need new ones to desire to come to God.
Are you a pelagian or semi-pelagian? You sound it. Kudos to you for first choosing God. Lol.
Calvinists don't deny a will (The faculty or ability to choose)...they deny its free (as scripture paints it as enslaved to sin).
A heroin addict has a will....I wouldn't call it free by any means though.
@@Aaron637 Totally, man. I'm right there with you and Calvin. If only the Bible could be so clear as you and him on these points. It's like, why couldn't those poor, ancient writers have chosen their words better? Didn't they know that 'will' equals 'choice'? Perhaps had the Bible writers taken an introductory class to logic, they never would have written that God wills that none should perish, for example. I mean, you might even infer from a verse like this, that 'none' means 'none', and that God's will is not necessarily identical with what actually happens.
I just wish that Calvin's theology could've been better integrated into the text itself. So many places might leave the uninitiated into thinking that 'choice' implies a freedom to decide. That passage in Joshua, for example. Maybe what he should have said is, "Choose ye this day what you have been predetermined to decide. If God has predetermined that you would follow other gods, then follow them. But as for me and my house, God chose that I would choose to serve the Lord". Why couldn't those Bible writers ever be so clever and philosophically sophisticated as Mr. Calvin?
@@Aaron637 'Semi-Pelagian' is a pretty dumb, contrived term. Every heresy there has ever been, has been semi-true and semi-false. Even a Calvinist could be called semi-Pelagian, as they would agree with the heretic that man has 'choice'. I could similarly be labeled a semi-Arian, as I agree with the heresiarch that Jesus is the son of God. I just happen to differ on the small matter that I also profess Jesus as God.
I never said I chose first. You are putting words in my mouth, as you seem to draw ideas from the Bible that are not there. Scripture does not say a slave to sin cannot have the the ability to freely accept a gift of freedom offered him. You are distorting a Scriptural analogy to meet the needs of your deficient theology.
A heroin addict has a free will that is severely affected by chemical dependency. Has anyone ever overcome addiction?
@@Giant_Meteor legend has it...Calvin actually inserted the terms election into scripture. Probably wrote Ephesians 1, 1 cor 1-2, Romans 9 himself. We can never be sure.
The only valid escape of election is open theism. If God has foreknowledge the future is as certain as the past. Libertarian free will is just an illusion.
Peace man. I was an anti-calvinist once upon a time. An actual semi-pelegian. I feel strongly about this topic. I don't think God's grace gives the option of salvation....I believe it definitively saves.
Arminians are my brothers though. Sorry if I'm being a jerk...I'm just tired.
Free will is sin. We will have God's will. Everyone in Heaven willingly and happily listens to God's Spirit and obeys God.
If free will is a sin then why did God give Adam and Eve before sin entered the world?
@@nobod354 I don't think the original post is correct by any stretch of the imagination.
Well Lucifer did not “happily listen to god’s spirit and obey god” , and he was in heaven - so were the 30% of angels who sided with Lucifer, according to the legend. So has god learnt from his mistake, and changed the rules?
He just can't fathom God omnipotent,omniscient and omnipresent of God . With time he will get it , the funny thing is he wants God to do what he in his finite mind how they world is suppose to be forgetting that he wasn't there when God was creating the universe.
Those who choose Jesus while on earth, will not sin in heaven because they chose to be with him in a fallen world
God will never remove our ability to choose -- the very attribute he placed in Man to begin with. The purpose in permitting Man to experience sin and then redemption was so we could understand those choices completely. Earth is where we learn this lesson and in heaven there will be no need to have our free will removed, our choice will have been made.
Wow good question unfortunately no good answer
"No needs = no sin" sounds reasonable to me.
Freedom only comes from have choices, same with love. Can't love if you don't have the free will to do so. Sin(disobey god) again can't be free if we do have the ability to disobey god.
"No, God didnt create evil he created the possibility for evil" disagreed and agreed in the same sentence.
Don't be afraid to say it, Yes God created evil. Every single thing came from God but he gave us freedom of choice and is faultless for our choices and its consequences.
@Matt Smith No one's cherry picking, I literally said "God created evil". I've seen you in the comments section below campaigning against God, I hope your eyes will be open to Jesus's mercy and forgiveness
@Arthur Feitosa Matt Just provided one of the many scriptures that proves God created evil, I think you need to accept it and change your view slightly.
Why do I feel like he's blaming God about the existence of Evil, he didn't.
Good question and my take is that to go to heaven you have to make a choice to try to be perfect as our father GOD. And those that make it to heaven have already made the choice to be saved and be righteous. There might be exceptions to kids below the age of seven. So whatever you bind on earth you bind on heaven meaning if you are repentant and saved by the grace of GOD you won’t sin in heaven bcz you already have passed the test and GOD’s grace is in you.
This is a great question
It's the flesh that has the sin nature. That won't be there in heaven. That part will die and our spirits will live on in glorified bodies in the day of the resurrection. Different from what Adam and Eve had. That's what I think is going to be the difference. No sin nature, and I believe with no possibility to screw it up again. Or perhaps to the point of Frank, actually no motive.
And the answer to the young man's question is this: yes, God could have created us so we wouldn't sin. But then what glory would He get when we choose Him? In that scenario we are just doing what we were created to do on instinct. Of course we would love Him. But how much more is love shown, or dare I say actually taking place, if we have the choice to love. For example, animals cant love their young babies. They are acting on mere instincts. They just do it. We humans were created differently - in God's image, His likeness and nature. We have the choice and ability to love and care and reason.
I've heard Frank address this before, so I'm surprised that he isn't getting what the young man is asking. Perhaps this Q&A predates those other videos.
Nice theory. Adam and Eve sinned without sin nature. Satan sinned without sin nature. Besides, sin nature isn't actually a phrase the Bible uses to discribe anything... So not sure you are talking about a biblical concept.
@@austin3789 basically all I'm trying to say is something will be different in eternity with Jesus. He will wipe away all tears, with no more pain or sorrow or death, and create a new heaven and new earth. This is in Revelation 21. Now that is scripture, and beyond that is speculation, which is what I was doing in my original post.
As far as the flesh that I mentioned, I was speaking about the passage in Romans 7. Verse 17 speaks of the sinful nature that is the part that sins. Yes, it is us who sins, but the writer makes the point that it is the flawed flesh which has the sinful nature.
@@BrandonBurch Revelation 20:1-3) its actually deeper then that when u die its not just heaven or hell. The Devil is going to be locked up for (1,000) years and there will be a teaching period on the Earth so everyone knows who the Most High is. Then after the Devil will be let back out to try and trick people Again one last time
@@tiffanywright6653 Rev 21 is talking about after all that. This is after the 1000 years. God creates a new heaven and new earth and all the former things are passed away. Ultimately it will all be set right one day forever. All sin judged accordingly, and all who have not trusted in Jesus for their forgiveness of sins will be cast into the lake of fire, including the devil.
@@BrandonBurch yea the new Earth and new heaven comes after the 1,000 years which has not come yet satan hasnot come yet if he did nd was locked up there would be no more murders, rapes, nothing negative on Earth
I just picture this guy arguing with God on judgement day and interrupting him constantly.
All mouths shall be stopped on that day because there will be irrefutable evidence of their ignorance and guilt and justification for their condemnation. Psalm 107:42; Romans 3.
I have the capacity to sin in future eternity?
No thanks. I don't want that responsibility.
in Eternity there's no motive to sin so chill.. it's not earth and we arent in flesh.
@@gobbarsingh this means that there's potential for another future fall.
@@kentfink9509 I suspect that God has seen just a bit further than us ;)
@@kentfink9509 those in Heaven do not sin , 1) because there is no sin in Heaven , 2) those in Heaven have new bodies that do not have a sin nature .
@@berenc7619 that's not what's inferred in this video
God asked man for obedience, to trust and thus, have faith in him.
Man violated that request, and thus, has lived in a fallen state since.
Earning God's trust again, that will require dedication in a fallen world, the world man chose.
May we all make it back into God's presence, with our Lord Jesus.
There is free will in heaven but in the presence of God, nobody will feel tempted to sin. Or in other words, the temptation we feel here isn't comparable with what we will feel in heaven.
Wow, it's best that he had a conversation by himself.
Parable of the prodigal son. Thats why we won't sin in heaven.
@Douglas Davis You are trying to place the constraints of the World on God? Interesting...
Douglas Davis 50 million Elvis fans can’t be wrong
@Douglas Davis The evidence is all around you, my friend. *You* either choose to accept the truth, or not. I pray you find Him.
@Douglas Davis God presents it, you either choose to believe or not.
@Douglas Davis I never claimed I was going to present any evidence to you, did I? I merely told you were to look, either your eyes will see or not.
"The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork." -Psalm 19:1 KJV
Good day to you!
There is free will in heaven just as the Angels have free will. The reality is we will be in Heaven having the righteousness of God and incapable of sin.
@@jonahkuske4252 really, I don't remember reading that in scripture. Enlighten me.
@Matt Smith hey smith, people believe what they want to believe. Sorry if the truth is not up your ally way
@Matt Smith
Sound thinking and logic indeed...when looking at things from the creation point of view, i.e., that "God" created everything and that humans were created with "free will". Now, hold that thought, just set it aside for a moment and go back to the beginning. You wrote: "When people ask why such horrible things happen on earth...."
So again, and just for the same of discussion, toss out "God" completely and ask that same question, this time from the point of view that the "scientific" explanation for life, on this planet, is the truth, that all is a product of "evolution".
Your question would now be something along the lines of "When people ask why such horrible things happen on earth, Science says it is because we evolved and...."
That is the tricky part, ain't it? If evolution is true, is it still "reasonable" to suggest Homo sapiens have this "free will"?
Bears hibernate...because it is their nature. Birds fly south for the winter...because it is their nature. It could be argued that yes, each is "free" to do whatever it wants but, at exactly the same time, each is limited, according to its nature, to what it both "can" do (has the ability to do) as well as will "choose" to do.
So now, sticking with evolution as the explanation for the origin of Homo sapiens on this planet, why do some of those Homo sapiens clearly have an innate propensity toward--and we'll keep the word because it is convenient--"evil" while others do not? I.E., why do some "rape, pillage, and plunder," why do some commit crimes, what are some violent, or another axiom comes to mind, why is recorded human history little more than the story of "man's inhumanity to man"?
"Free will" always struck me as the single-best example of on oxymoron ever. The "will" is, of course, the natural "instincts" of the thing, that innate predisposition of those bears and birds.
"Free," of course, in this context (that of man's "free will") suggests a "will" that is absent any predisposition toward, well, anything. That bear would sit there and say, "Yeah, I think I'll take a nap." Another would say, "Nope, not me." It, that creature, Homo sapiens, or birds and bears, could never, would never "choose" anything simply because, according to the definition of "free will," they are "free" from any "nature" to do much of anything.
So for me, personally, it reduces to a choice.
Science, on the one hand, seems to present a perfectly plausible and otherwise reasonable explanation for the existence of life on this planet...up to the point that science completely avoids any discussion of "human nature". Oh, it goes on and on about offering "reasons" there are all of these "horrible things that happen on earth," things like socio-economic inequality and unfairness, those physiological and psychological "problems" common between and among earthlings.
So Science, or it seems to be, begins its explanations and understanding of human conduct and behavior essentially as does religion, specifically, the Christian religion, i.e., in the "Garden of Eden," in a state of "innocence". Science simply explains those "horrible things" on...anything and everything else...except "human nature". On one hand, if I understand Science correctly, we are all born "innocent" and yet, at exactly the same time, things in life--always external to the individual--can "cause" a person to become "evil," go bad, break the law, etc.
Christianity, however, begins with the individual, the consideration of his nature.
Both arrive at the same conclusion, that of those "horrible things that happen on earth".
And then it is here that I simply piss off pretty much everyone else. I.E., Science fails, miserably, to explain...anything, defined now as to "why" life is the way it is. Bears generally get along with their fellow bears. I've never seen a bunch of robins attack a flock or cardinals. Yes, animals will fight over territory and they will kill for food but killing, for little more than a sport, like humans? Never. So if evolution is true, the only thing to brag about is that Homo sapiens did indeed evolve to be the most cruel species to ever take up space on this planet.
So where Science fails, Christianity offers the better explanation, that of Creation. A "somebody, somewhere" set all of this into motion. And while I might, for the sake of discussion, grant "free will" to Adam and Eve (whether literal or metaphor), but after that? I just can't see it, "Free will" remains an oxymoron.
And if it isn't that, there does remain only one other possible conclusion: Evolution explains the existence of Homo sapien but, somewhere along the way, that genus (I think that's the correct word) has expanded, has further evolved, to include a sub-species that looks "human" but damned sure ain't.
And that starts to sound like the theory that aliens visited this planet and tampered with primate DNA to create both an "intelligent" bunch as well as a "slave" species, now doesn't it?
Sorry to have rambled so much.
You stay safe and be well.
@@jackmorgan8931 When you say science do you ultimately mean philosophy? That's what I'm getting.
@@UberGastronomer Why? How are they mutually exclusive?
I personally think there WILL be free will in Heaven. We will have free will, sinning to us in Heaven will probably be equivalent to us right now where we don’t have a desire to drop a new born baby into a free way to see if it’ll bounce. Extreme example I know but it’s useful to illustrate how sinning won’t even cross our minds. Well Have glorified bodies incapable of sin but we will have free will. If we want to walk around we can, if we want to eat or drink we can, if we want to speak we can, we will have free will.
I also agree with Frank, we create kids knowing they’ll possibly steal money out of our wallets or crash our cars or lie to us or sneak out but we still make them out of love. We aren’t just going to not make them or kill them because of the possibility. So I agree. God knew that we’d fall short and he knew how to redeem. God so loved the world he gave up Jesus so that he can die for our sins, rise up again on the third day and all our sins were washed by his blood. ALL SINS past, present and future. All we have to do is have faith and trust in him. Glory to the name of God. Repent guys! Repent and trust in Jesus! When you repent you view Jesus in a different way, when you repent you view sin differently, when you repent you start to ask for forgiveness for your sins to reconcile that relationship with God, when you repent you get new desires to do what is right, you’ll want to aim for that mark of perfection even though you know you can’t attain it YET like Paul wanted. We won’t be perfect until we get our Glorified bodies that will be like Christ. God Bless you Frank and God Bless anyone who reads this
Love of God is how creation is holy. Free will was given to creation. God chooses for eternity those who love him. Redemption was required to heal those who through no fault of their own were made sinners. This is just and merciful. Those who choose God will come to Gods light , the Son. Those who do not come to the light God do so by choice. The darkness we must overcome. Separated from God , ignorant of God we search for truth. Those who are genuine seekers will find him.