This episode was recorded on 29th October 2024. Podcast links below! If you're enjoying this content, why not let SVB know on his stream (www.twitch.tv/svb_ ) The best way to support the podcast is still www.patreon.com/svb Soundcloud: soundcloud.com/ow_svb/the-season-13-debate Spotify: open.spotify.com/show/6sRWutKTc0gnWuguo62Vpa Apple Podcasts: podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/svbs-group-up/id1490256265
49:30 - 53:25 i 100% agree with this. i really wish the game was balanced based on how difficult a character is. being rewarded for pushing the skill ceiling of a hero is what makes a game like ow fun. i enjoy playing the harder characters so maybe im being bias but when i see people pick easier heroes and put in much less effort than me yet get more value it feels like shit. im doing all of this work just to see someone with their monitor turned off doing more than me. ever since season 9+ changes happened i think its time to accept that Overwatch is now a modern game and the balance focus is to make the casual players feel like they're good at the game without actually being good at the game. i find it very sad that this is the direction a game like OW decided to head to. It's like pulling out a chess board and saying "okay we are playing checkers"... like no man i wanna play chess on the chess board.
I agree, the game should be balanced around more skill equating to more value. Nobody wants the brain dead heroes to be meta and get automatic value. A high skill floor has to be offset by a low skill ceiling and vica versa.
The recurring theme of OW2 has been to make defensive abilities significantly stronger and easier than offensive abilities. What results is that the entire identity of overwatch (getting huge play of the games, pulling off huge combos) has been reduced by ~ 75% because the vast majority of attempted plays are undone by support cooldowns. Ask genji mains how their blades have been in ow1 vs ow2, its night and day and completely unfun.
100% agree! Juno is an easy support compared to Lucio! Almost everything on Juno is EASY value (busted) BUT Juno doesn't have an ability that is broken like lamp or Suzu but Her ULT is just the best!!! it gives insane everything!!!
I wish bogur would stop saying things like 6v6 is not going to fix everything . Nobody that wants 6v6 thinks it’s going to fix everything, we just basically thought the game was way more fun in 6v6 even with the imbalancing that comes with it.
I think he knows but I understand why he keeps saying it. It's because for every sensible person there is someone so dumb they think a format will fix everything. So while repeating it might be tiresome to you and me, it is probably needed for all the dumb dumbs out there.
The vast majority of 6v6ers don't mind 5v5 and can acknowledge the pros and cons of both formats; we literally just want the option to still play the old game. Every time a major change happened (hero limits, role lock), an arcade mode of the previous version was kept around (just like how Minecraft lets you play older versions with different combat, features, etc). The 5v5 change is the ONLY time we have not had the option to for this outside of custom games/discord groups, and outside of server demands, there is next to no legitimate reason any dev or 5v5 enthusiast has provided for why this is the case. I get that it's the content creator thing to overexaggerate for views/reactions, but it's wild to even pretend as if everyone who liked 6v6 is "conspiratorial." The Eskay method of comparing people who like a different game from you to insane politicians/voters is beneath you SVB...
I straight up had to close the podcast at that point. The mental gymnastics that some content creators go through and indirectly (or directly sometimes) belittle the intelligence of the average player is crazy. I love Bogur for many things but his absurd exaggerations on 6v6 advocation is just way over the top. We had 6 years of experience with 6v6. Pretending we dont know the game mode or misremember how it was is just so below a person like Bogur who is actually very smart
It's pretty odd how 5v5 made Bogur literally abandon Winton and the tank role in general (along with so many others) yet he defends it so hard against 6v6. Like bro u don't even play tank anymore, u heal bot on Lifeweaver stfu 🤫
The 6v6 takes are embarrassing. NO ONE IS CLAIMING 6v6 WILL FIX EVERYTHING. Many changes have to be made to make 6v6 work. (Immortality field and brig) But I firmly believe that 6v6 under the current team will be handled much better than ow1 and will lead to an overall much better experience overall BY FAR. But no it will not make a magically perfect game, such a massive and weird take to have.
Honestly a really good podcast and its a nice breath of fresh air from the most recent ones, they were getting pretty stale. You should definitely continue to bring in new faces or at least mix it up more often, Kraandop, Bogur, and Reinforce were amazing! Maybe next podcast we could see Supertf? Guru? Maybe Jay3?
We really need realth on the podcast, the guy will literally be able to break down every single 5v5 and 6v6 problem with ease. It’s just insane how top level players can’t even recognize the core issues of the game, but still won’t admit it’s AoE sustain, immortality abilities, mobility creep, and 5V5!!!
Them wanting to keep passives and reworks is fucked as well, pro meta is gonna just be 3-0-3 or 3-1-2 with like queen mauga zar venture/moira brig lucio, the AOE is gonna kill the test
Ok I'm frankly sick and tired of certain content creators who keep saying "people think 6v6 will somehow solve everything". Fuck off. Nobody says that. People say 6v6 will offer a FOUNDATION to improve the game more than 5v5 does. And its a game format we have 6 years of experience with already to pull data and knowhow from. 5v5 has always been the wild card and 2 years post launch we're still debating how to solve the solo tank role to the point where everything gets gigabuffed and the game is reworked every half year or so. I can't. If 6v6 is a topic, make sure at least there is somewhat equal representation. Not to argue, but to present viewpoints that both sides can better understand cus dear lord some of these takes on 6v6 presented are just obnoxious at this point.
You say that but people keep showing clips and then saying "6v6 would fix this" at this point It does feel like 6v6 should cure cancer to live to expectations
@@diegocorvalan5435you're listening to a vocal minority. Most 6v6 players just prefer it. As a gm tank player in ow1 and 2 I prefer 6v6 I do not enjoy solo tank I stopped playing tank because it's just not even close to as fun. Counter swapping is much worse in 6v6 you can play around counter swapping in 5v5 but that gameplay loop is boring to me. Where as in 6v6 you have more options for counterplay without directly counter swapping. More choice is better
@@diegocorvalan5435 a very small minority. And those clips on X and tik tok are just about the most shallow medium you could imagine. If that's what the perception of discourse is based on by a creator, that's their own made issue at that point. In any legitimate discussion or thread, nobody thinks 6v6 will solve everything. When people (in general) say something could be fixed by 6v6, the implied meaning is that 6v6 offers the foundation to better solve that issue. Just like Hog isn't a solved tank by just switching to 6v6, but he will be damn easier to manage his extremes in a 6v6 format, than the 5v5 format. Same with Ana nade for example when people keep crying about that any time it has any sense of power to it. 6v6 offers a foundation to make it less oppressive compared to 5v5. And most things are like this, because most things were inherently developed for 6v6 in mind in the first place so no wonder 6v6 can offer "A" solution to many problems. Not the perfect solution to everything, but many solutions to many problems. If it didn't offer more solutions (chief among which is gameplay enjoyment overall), people wouldn't advocate for it.
Love this idea. I'd gladly kick Virus to the curb for Sombra to regain more utility - but with how team-dependent that utility version was, I would not at all mind avenues for more individual skill expression in exchange for some of her busted mobility. A melee applying a DoT would be novel too edit: wait I haven't slept, this might be a Spy joke. I thought tying Virus to landing a melee was a neat idea
6v6 had low lows, but so does 5v5. I don't think one of them was worse than the other. Tanks in OW2 right now make all interactions with them into a low low.
Oh no!!!!! Queuing into a roadhog otp!!! How is that any different then queuing into a mercy or lw otp now??? Shit is still fucking ass. Personally I'd rather have a roadhog as my tank partner then be a solo tank.
Ice cold take, make junkensteins lab an unranked game mode, no swaps, full cast, straight goofy stuff, then balance the normal cast/normal game mode(s) competitively, no more half concessions for casuals. Trying to play both sides on balance is ass, you wanna have silly fun? Lab. wanna learn? Unranked. Wanna be competitive? Comp.
‘Tactical Sombra’ aka hide in open space with perma stealth and hack insta burst a target or emp in the middle of the enemy team to cancel all counter play. So tactical and strategic
The identity of the game has been totally sabotaged by the ever increasing ease with which supports can cancel or outheal offensive plays. Overwatch was known for its teamwork (tank combos) and huge plays like 6k blades, grav dragons, massive Dva bombs, etc. In OW2 the health pools, healing levels, and escape abilities mean these sorts of plays are verging on being mathematically impossible to pull off. Most casuals or support players don't understand because they were never taking risks or making plays to begin with, and are enjoying running the lobby denying all value while barely conscious. It baffles me that people will still actively shill for a version of the game whose "big moments" have been objectively cut in half if not more. Not to mention the fact that this entire game was based off a scam (pve) and has had nothing but massive balancing issues since its launch.
@@Qwmp- it’s because of the doomers and zoomers that are just addicted but don’t wanna rip the wool off. There’s people that love this game that can’t play it anymore, and then they’re the brainless people who are indifferent and don’t want to think about it. It’s political that way.
@@amerhst1201 honestly it’s weird that he’s saying all this when literally nobody plays tank anymore. Don’t you think of 5v5 was working more people would want to come to the game and also play tank?
@@Waywurd08open queue is full of tanks and dominate the leaderboards tho. So I don’t think it’s really a 5 v 6 thing, it’s more of a role thing. I think tanks just don’t like playing alone and having the pressure of being The Tank. And if it was 6v6 with 1 tank they’d still feel that way. But I’m still looking forward to the 6v6 rollout and min 1 max 3 system.
@@DNYLNY they’d still feel the pressure of being a solo tank if they were a solo tank. As a tank main in ow1 the feeling of big plays, beating opponents with strategy instead of mechanical skill, synergizing with another tank and improving on that synergy over time, and not being counterswapped constantly was a lot more fun
min 1 max 3 actually brings really interesting balance opportunities if we take the idea behind kingmaker and apply it here, too. they can make a "base" balance of a role/hero, and nerf or buff that base based on how many of that role are in a match. for example, 2 tanks have the vanilla stats. but if there's only one, they have buffed health and/or damage. if there's 3, they have nerfed health and/or damage relative to the base. i think that could actually really work and open up counterplay to the inevitable 3 tank comps. at high levels, it will likely end up being so each team has one role that is buffed, one role that remains vanilla base stats, and one role that is nerfed. maybe having support be the buffed role (with only one player on it) rather than dps can be a viable strategy against a 3 tank comp depending on the individual hero pools of your teammates. oftentimes at pro/high level, the stats of the hero is more important than the individual players' skillset and strengths. having the actual stats of a hero be fluid will provide an extra layer of strategy in team composition
I don't play comp anymore so I struggled trying to find a reason to play this game. But the Junkenstein mode felt so refreshing after so long. I am sad that it is limited time but happy that it's pretty popular and is still being played. Hopefully they'll cook more with this in the future and possibly add it as one of the core modes? It feels very replayable to me because of this progression feel with the talents.
Arcade is just not popular i feel like the mode would die out very quickly if it became permanente. Biggest issue however is creating and balancing talents for ALL heroes, can you even imagine what it would look like? One of the reasons PvE failed, its way too much work and almost impossible to achieve
The issue with double translocator with stealth attached is enabling perma stealth again. Stealth and translocator needs to be on seperate cooldowns and hack and virus should be combined
Making translocator cool down longer is the worst thing you can do. If it is too long then I just have to sit there in invis in the backline until it ends so I can translocate again to escape. Just make the stealth its own ability again and give it a duration.
Also, the reason why they made her leave invisibility when hacking is because it reduces the delay before she can start damaging after a hack (there is a delay between pressing left click and actually shooting when starting in stealth).
no matter if we go 5vs5 or 6vs6 - we need to rework still half of the roster for any mode. Let him pierce through shield BUT he will not dmg the shield at all - its just insane to make 130 in one punch - 65 dmg to shield and 65 dmg to the hero health pool Think about in that relation - Juno Ultimate does more heal than LW Tree AND you also get dmg boost and its not destroyable. Less heal if you want to keep the dmg or if you want to keep both - lower down both NO we dont need fucking comp system or something else in junk lab! We need a fun mode and not everything should be comp!
We have enough variety in the Tank role that even if you were to get 2 DPS players who queued tank there's a workable comp. That said I completely agree with the take of making Offtank/Bruiser its own role in 6v6 and hopefully Phreak will be built like a Main Tank to help the distribution a bit.
The Sombra invis only being 5 seconds really doesn’t feel as bad as they claim IMO. By the time the 5 seconds is up, there’s only 1 second left on the cooldown so just find a corner or piece of cover to hide behind for 1 sec then throw your translocator at the floor to restealth immediately. I have no issue sneaking up on widowmakers just like before once I got used to it.
The Sombra nerf to hack is even attempting hack...for any reason. It's so sad to see how much they nerfed her and they're doubling down and trying to make this work. I'm glad the got rid of permanent stealth but the whole "translocator and stealth are one ability" is sad. I don't think it'll ever work.
@@nickve777 when did I say she's not fundamentally broken? Guy 1 says he's glad permastealth is gone while offering valid criticism and all Guy 2 does present himself as one who only thinks in terms of "wahhh sombra evil" by twisting the knife in the fresh wound that is sombra's kit's confused state. You're swinging at ghosts here lmfao
Based af answer from Bogur regarding Sombra. It was inane to ever turn her into an assassin when her entire kit was predicated on low damage, high mobility, high utility. That's why she had such busted mobility, she was basically a third support whose value was tied to denying enemies and setting up dives. No shit she turned into the most hated, cheesy spawncamping noobstomper with more damage, while keeping permainvis and the same cross-map access with TL. And instead of tackling that fundamental problem they just try to clunk it further and further in an attempt to balance this worse Tracer/Reaper. If ability lockout was too strong or obnoxious, 1 make it affect tanks way less than squishies, 2 come up with some combat utility that is more interesting, and 3 rework Hack's cast requirements.
Hey SVB, in a future episode I'd love to hear you talk about what Overwatch could do to get you to come back and play. These 3 Chungus' have great input but they're already playing everyday. The input of a veteran player who isn't playing any longer might be the input Blizzard needs to hear most
I haven't played OW in months, but I still love the pod. I'd really like to hear another metal rank pod. (not like the last one, where most of the guests were diamond/masters. I'm talking PEAK gold or plat.) It would be good to hear from the "silent majority" instead of "just another" group of the top 1%.
this panel has been the most pleasant and conversational in a while. i like all the other guests, but having limited grandstanding, soap-boxing, and "debating" was refreshing
They should do a experimental card with tanks where they make changes to balance that lean heavily in a specialization at the cost of something else to the same extent. Meaning they should create three groups of four tanks. One group heavily favors dps/speed potential but has very low hp/armour, the next group is the inverse where it has low dps/speed potential but high hp/armour/shields and the last is mediocre at both dps/health but has high uptime on utility abilities. So less balanced tanks overall but leaning very heavily on dps potential, tanking potential or utility potential while sacrificing the other two outcomes. The tanks are too good at everything while also feeling lackluster at specific things at times, if that makes any sense. Just do a experimental card test and see how it turns out. Maybe its terrible
I love this podcast because it brings different opinions and perspectives, but unfortunately this one is just boring because they all agree on everything all there takes are the same it's like watching someone talk to himself 😂 I would have loved to see Spilo or and people who have different takes not to say anything bad about these guys theyy fine but specifically this episode is just boring but thanks Svb anyway❤.
Exactly what I said. Circle jerk made this episode pretty boring . I don't care if they disagree but when nobody is willing to play devil's advocate what's the point
I can tell none of these 3 guests have actually engaged with any of the strong 6v6 arguments made by people like Samito or Hawk in good faith. They are constantly crying about Tank stacking. I only heard the word sustain once and it was not even discussed further. Honestly a bit disappointing from these guys. Almost all 6v6ers heavily emphasize the importance of keeping sustain abilities from the dlc heroes like Brig, Baptiste and Moira in check. The problem of Goats and double shield was a support problem. It was not a support that was being switched out for Sombra in the late Goats era. It was a Tank. The change to 6v6 HAS to be accompanied by serieus overhauls to these ridiculous AOE sustain abilities. THAT is what will make this game better. Not just the change to 6v6. :) Have a lovely day everyone!
But you all think this dev team is incompetent XD, strong 6v6 arguments include calling the dev team trash and incompetent. So they would suddenly become competent in 6v6?
that's such an ironic post my dude. if no one is playing tank, how is 6v6 gonna solve it? longer queue times for literally everyone? f that. there are upsides to 6v6 that I enjoy - tank synergies and combo plays. but ensuring that there's one person to lead the team and make space makes it easier for supports, easier for dps to know who to target, etc. it's just better as a tank player. plus the queue times are fast.
@ I have an idea! Let’s improve the tank experience, bring combos and synergy back, and get rid of counter swapping! That will bring people to tank just like how people were brought to support. The problem is tank never got this treatment and they don’t buy as many skins. There wasn’t profit incentive to go back UNTIL NOW since the game has become a skin seller
@@Waywurd08tank is not popular in every game, most people want to go kill or just be in the back helping, and that Is fine, tank will always have the most pressure and everyone will see your mistakes, synergy combos even if cool will never be enogh to fight the core principal of the roles
I've been saying what Reinforce has said for a while. Some DPS can be made off tanks, and normal off-tanks would slide into that role. No reason why Bastion or Mei can't be moved to off-tanks.
12:46 is what i called out in a spilo video back in dva meta about how orisa was getting micro buffs like crazy and was going to become the next meta after dva. This guy in the comments was denying me in every way he could think of making no sense at all claiming orisa was nerfed by the "massive armor nerfs" funny how I called it, and shows that some players really just dont understand how a character is creeping up in power until its too late and they become the only tank played.
I didn’t play a ton of sombra, but the most I liked her was her season 12 variant (the latest one prior to rework) and I think her only issue was perma stealth. However I think tying stealth to tp is always going to feel terrible. I’d suggest separating tp and stealth again, as well as getting rid of the opportunist passive with bonus hack damage. You could make stealth activate by holding crouch for a short moment, and then it lasts for maybe 10 seconds, then goes on cooldown. So this is basically just s12 Sombra without perma stealth, while having the fluidity of two abilities not being tied to each other. Removing perma stealth with no other compensation is a big is a nerf, so after that if she’s underperforming you could tweak her somehow, maybe increasing hack duration by half a second (idk what it currently is) or giving her virus or gun SLIGHTLY more damage. TLDR: I think having stealth and tp on one ability feels bad, I liked s12 sombra, maybe we can have a 10 second stealth activated by holding crouch.
I switched from sombra to venture. His playstyle is very similar but has 2 cooldowns to get in and out vs 1 with sombra. And he counters widow nicely with the right positioning.
My take on a potential Sombra change: Passive - getting a kill on a hacked target gives her a 2 second stealth with 30% movement speed, 1 second after disengaging from a fight. Hack - scrambles enemy hud, doesnt break stealth, doesnt disable abilities, refreshes virus except for transfer. Is still able to be interrupted by damage. Virus - does ~10-15 health damage, bypassing shields, armor, shield health, but not overhealth. Also spreads to other enemies within ~3m of primary target hit. Duration of 5s, or 2-3 damage per second, transfer to secondary targets window is 1s after primary target is hit. Breaks stealth. New(ish) ability: Incognito - gives her stealth for 10-15s with 10% movement speed, hacking breaks this stealth, whether its an enemy or health pack. Translocator - same as it is now. EMP - proc’s hacked on any enemies in her range but also reduces peripheral vision (like illaris ult), refreshes virus debuff on enemies (including transfer proc), proc’s hinder for 5s as well. Also increase her spread for her weapon, and slightly nerf per bullet damage.
Also they should change Rematra's block ability to a timed ability, with cooldown period. So only active for 4/5 seconds but all the damaged absorbed is transferred to his punches adding either damage, range or a combination of both at lower values than specifically damage vs range. Or give him a added utility when a certain damage threshold is reached such as added speed or quicker cooldowns or he becomes enraged for a small period with his omnic eyes turning red etc. They should make the block only last a specific amount of time and punish the enemy for shooting you. Same concept as bubbles. Just holding your fist out in front of you is just boring and adds nothing to the gameplay. If the only intent was to block I would rather have a bubble/shield that burst and maybe that explodes, pushing enemies away. There are so many other ideas that adds utility where he doesn't just stand their with his arms up looking like a fool that is at the wrong place at the wrong time with "dumb ways to die" playing in the background.
@Group Up! Podcast @1:44:00 The Argument of tanks and supports being picked in open queue over dps is not acurate, because of the balancing is done for role queue only, not open queue. The Passives are still there and the Tank passive has the role queue passives in there as well as the non role queue passives. Tanks and support are broken because they get overbuffed for that mode. The only time open queue had way more dps was when the dps passive came out with the healing reduction when it was at its strongest.
How did no one bring up putting stealth on a separate cd for sombra? That is the most immediate fix to make her somewhat fun to play and stall time for a more comprehensive rework. Also i'm def being a downer here but please keep the pickable passives to a seperate, non-main gamemode.
Sombra has the good stuff removed all the time every rework, next they are gonna remove virus like wtf. Sombra needs to have her hack tied to her virus ability, 5 sec stealth on a seperate cooldown on 6 sec, translocation on 6 sec cooldown, opportunist damage boost only on ultimate. Sombra does not lose invis when throwing or getting shot virus, but loses when shooting.
Enjoying the discussion as always just very confused how everyone completely forgot that most games in most ranks pre role queue were played with mostly dps, no matter that role was weak. In the Real game people don't want to play tank, always haven't
Are people stupid for thinking in some cases there is a conspiracy behind? after all the shit uncovered in the last months? maybe someone needs a reality check and maybe is the guy that quit the game but still makes podcasts about it and not the playerbase, just sayin'
Asking a high rank competitive player if pve is good is doomed to fail, because of the "fighting people is more fun" answer. Give them elden ring they'd prefer pvp game New mode popular because of lack of hero swaps is debatable, because I'm 100% sure that all people on rein wished they could switch vs me on orisa
1:15:14 That is not how that works. You can play Reaper in this game-mode and suffer for the remaining 15 mins of the match because the rest of the characters are all poke orientated. Not being able to swap just means that your stuck being at a permanent disadvantage for the entirety of the match. The fact that they buffed Ashe and nerfed Reaper just shows how quickly this game-mode is going to die out.
2:10:30 when OW2 came out supports were big whiny babies because they didn't have a 2nd tank to peel for them. To be fair the DPS passive back then turned flankers into gigaflankers.
i think people just need to get used to the new sombra. a lot of changes people are suggesting is basically infinite stealth. "oh man i wish i could translocate and instantly go back into stealth the second i exit stealth. but also infinite stealth is bad." so weird. is one second of non stealth really that bad?
I don't mind them being separate. Keep in mind when I say "changes people are suggesting." It's not exclusive to the svb cast. Also, when I say people need to get used to her, I really think it's a skill issue. I've had no problem timing my translocator to be able to get around the map quickly in a similar fashion to tracer. Then timing my engage to just as my invisibility wears off. By the time I'm done shooting the person I'm shooting I usually have my translocater up again to escape.
As an Orisa main, let me welcome you all into Mauga meta again. Hope you like it. It's time to go back to be a ball main. Hopefully, my team likes not having a tank in front of them.
Mauga is absolute dogwater right now, it takes only 1 single counter to completely nullify all his value or make his supports have to pump insane heals into him. In fact, he’s one of the only characters right now that every single tank can outplay, he’s basically just a Reinhardt with no shield and guns instead of a hammer.
For Juno should they reduce the ultimate healing even more, as low as 50 per second, but give her back her original falloff range? Both her damage and heal is tied to this short falloff range. Maybe it is a non issue but I would rather have the longer range on her heal/dps and a significantly weaker ult rather than the way it is now.
I like the idea of not allowing swapping but it needs to be tested. I feel like the game needs a pick/ban phase if this is the case. Imagine accidentally locking into a game against 5 counters and not being able to swap.
Honestly fuck stealth, I just want her to be able to run as fast as she use to. Lock the speed to a button like soldier . She can chase down left over enemies trying to regroup.
you translocate, use the 5 seconds to get to the flank, wait the 1 second before having translocater back and THEN engage. WHY is that so hard to understand?? she has so much lethality rn, just stop playing like rats
While with any other real flanker hero you can just engage and be consistent throughout the whole fight, sombra is REQUIRED to have a 6 second down time. They made a character with down time issues have even more downtime, I wish sombra was anywhere near as good as tracer or even Genji rn
Overwatch 1 Sombra was better. Yes, she had ultimate escape, but she removed herself from the fight completely. It's way higher price in 5v5 where you HAVE TO be in the fight all the time, so it's fair. Just make her trans to beep nearby or something, that's all she needed. Also can move hack to virus, so it's a skill shot.
Why doesn't blizzard make a support that their ultimate is they give 15 percent or something ult charge to another player on the team! thats cool and innovative. Could also have a support ult that's like a nano but the damage the player does drains the enemies ult charge a little bit or something.
19:28 - are we going to play dumb and pretend like they don't do these weird balance changes because certain characters are in the shop and they want to sell more skins? are we really going to pretend they didn't dumpster sombra because widow mythic came out? that they didnt nerf rammattra because there was a reinhardt skin in the shop? is this what we're doing?
![The Great DPS Debate [2024] feat. Jay3, Samito, Spilo & Deku](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/t0Z5uYpNB80/mqdefault.jpg)
![The Great DPS Debate [2024] feat. Jay3, Samito, Spilo & Deku](/img/tr.png)
![The Great Tank Debate [2024] feat. Flats, Danteh, Bogur & Freedo](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/ckPGk9pd6n4/mqdefault.jpg)
This episode was recorded on 29th October 2024. Podcast links below! If you're enjoying this content, why not let SVB know on his stream (www.twitch.tv/svb_ )
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49:30 - 53:25 i 100% agree with this. i really wish the game was balanced based on how difficult a character is. being rewarded for pushing the skill ceiling of a hero is what makes a game like ow fun. i enjoy playing the harder characters so maybe im being bias but when i see people pick easier heroes and put in much less effort than me yet get more value it feels like shit. im doing all of this work just to see someone with their monitor turned off doing more than me. ever since season 9+ changes happened i think its time to accept that Overwatch is now a modern game and the balance focus is to make the casual players feel like they're good at the game without actually being good at the game. i find it very sad that this is the direction a game like OW decided to head to. It's like pulling out a chess board and saying "okay we are playing checkers"... like no man i wanna play chess on the chess board.
This. I watched a couple old ow1 videos and was literally shocked at how much skill expression there was in heroes such as genji and even widow
I agree, the game should be balanced around more skill equating to more value. Nobody wants the brain dead heroes to be meta and get automatic value. A high skill floor has to be offset by a low skill ceiling and vica versa.
The recurring theme of OW2 has been to make defensive abilities significantly stronger and easier than offensive abilities. What results is that the entire identity of overwatch (getting huge play of the games, pulling off huge combos) has been reduced by ~ 75% because the vast majority of attempted plays are undone by support cooldowns. Ask genji mains how their blades have been in ow1 vs ow2, its night and day and completely unfun.
100% agree! Juno is an easy support compared to Lucio! Almost everything on Juno is EASY value (busted) BUT Juno doesn't have an ability that is broken like lamp or Suzu but Her ULT is just the best!!! it gives insane everything!!!
DPS doomfist and echo are great examples of high difficulty heroes with a high reward
Kraan in a group up ep is actual PEAK 🔥
Reinforce is a breath of fresh air on the pod. Very respectful and fair takes
Reinforce smokes some serious tuff on his 6v6 test takes wdym
As a 6v6er he had reasonable takes @Anton_Jermakoŭ
I wish bogur would stop saying things like 6v6 is not going to fix everything . Nobody that wants 6v6 thinks it’s going to fix everything, we just basically thought the game was way more fun in 6v6 even with the imbalancing that comes with it.
he wants to be flats so bad lmao
I think he knows but I understand why he keeps saying it. It's because for every sensible person there is someone so dumb they think a format will fix everything. So while repeating it might be tiresome to you and me, it is probably needed for all the dumb dumbs out there.
queue times would never make 6v6 worth it imo
Queue times for dps are just as bad as OW1, a game with a price tag that got abandoned. Maybe the problem isn't the format, but Role Lock itself.
@@s0meweird_boi339 open queue is pretty dead in comparison though. I'm curious what the new role queue changes will bring to the game
KRAANNNNN WWWWWWWWWW
The vast majority of 6v6ers don't mind 5v5 and can acknowledge the pros and cons of both formats; we literally just want the option to still play the old game. Every time a major change happened (hero limits, role lock), an arcade mode of the previous version was kept around (just like how Minecraft lets you play older versions with different combat, features, etc). The 5v5 change is the ONLY time we have not had the option to for this outside of custom games/discord groups, and outside of server demands, there is next to no legitimate reason any dev or 5v5 enthusiast has provided for why this is the case.
I get that it's the content creator thing to overexaggerate for views/reactions, but it's wild to even pretend as if everyone who liked 6v6 is "conspiratorial." The Eskay method of comparing people who like a different game from you to insane politicians/voters is beneath you SVB...
Well said brother
Booger is an idiot
Real I’m so tired of the loud minority representing a whole group.
Preach 🤯😤
I straight up had to close the podcast at that point. The mental gymnastics that some content creators go through and indirectly (or directly sometimes) belittle the intelligence of the average player is crazy.
I love Bogur for many things but his absurd exaggerations on 6v6 advocation is just way over the top.
We had 6 years of experience with 6v6. Pretending we dont know the game mode or misremember how it was is just so below a person like Bogur who is actually very smart
is bogur the 5v5 knight or what, we just trying to test 6v6 and have fun, its not the holy and only solution but just a change of pace.
From his streams it seems like he doesn't like ow at all. Rather deadlock and Rivals. Which is understandable
He wants to bring people back to reality,people think 6v6 is gonna solve all issues
He's been engagement farming for a while
He isn't even an overwatch player anymore
@@emiyaann4688shut up literally nobody says that except 5v5 elitists who have run out of good arguments
It's pretty odd how 5v5 made Bogur literally abandon Winton and the tank role in general (along with so many others) yet he defends it so hard against 6v6. Like bro u don't even play tank anymore, u heal bot on Lifeweaver stfu 🤫
@@lilpharma yeah I don't understand it.
What a refreshing cast! Thanks for hosting SVB
The 6v6 takes are embarrassing. NO ONE IS CLAIMING 6v6 WILL FIX EVERYTHING. Many changes have to be made to make 6v6 work. (Immortality field and brig) But I firmly believe that 6v6 under the current team will be handled much better than ow1 and will lead to an overall much better experience overall BY FAR. But no it will not make a magically perfect game, such a massive and weird take to have.
@@Dario11457 they sound like they miss 6v6 so bad but are just being doomers and naming a bunch of non existent and unprovable points
Honestly a really good podcast and its a nice breath of fresh air from the most recent ones, they were getting pretty stale.
You should definitely continue to bring in new faces or at least mix it up more often, Kraandop, Bogur, and Reinforce were amazing! Maybe next podcast we could see Supertf? Guru? Maybe Jay3?
We really need realth on the podcast, the guy will literally be able to break down every single 5v5 and 6v6 problem with ease. It’s just insane how top level players can’t even recognize the core issues of the game, but still won’t admit it’s AoE sustain, immortality abilities, mobility creep, and 5V5!!!
I agree
100%
No tanks just need to have lower mobility with a high survivability and boom tank fixed, 5v5 is fixed
@ How does that fix counterswapping, how does a dva with less mobility survive against a zarya?
@@Highvalue365 did this joke go over my head
2-2-2 is the only way. Not having 2-2-2 be the first playtest is doing 6v6 dirty
Them wanting to keep passives and reworks is fucked as well, pro meta is gonna just be 3-0-3 or 3-1-2 with like queen mauga zar venture/moira brig lucio, the AOE is gonna kill the test
@@ondrejlukas3263-0-3 won't be possible due to the Min 1 hero limit
@christianalexander6364 oh shit you're right my bad, so it's just gonna be the technical 4-2 cause venture is just a mini tank lol
How do you fix q tho?
@@ondrejlukas326 No they dont want to keep the passives, please read before spreading missinformation
Ok I'm frankly sick and tired of certain content creators who keep saying "people think 6v6 will somehow solve everything". Fuck off. Nobody says that. People say 6v6 will offer a FOUNDATION to improve the game more than 5v5 does. And its a game format we have 6 years of experience with already to pull data and knowhow from. 5v5 has always been the wild card and 2 years post launch we're still debating how to solve the solo tank role to the point where everything gets gigabuffed and the game is reworked every half year or so.
I can't. If 6v6 is a topic, make sure at least there is somewhat equal representation. Not to argue, but to present viewpoints that both sides can better understand cus dear lord some of these takes on 6v6 presented are just obnoxious at this point.
well damn said
You say that but people keep showing clips and then saying "6v6 would fix this" at this point It does feel like 6v6 should cure cancer to live to expectations
A small small minority says that. They need to speak about people like samito who acknowledges the issues that comes with both 5v5 and 6v6
@@diegocorvalan5435you're listening to a vocal minority. Most 6v6 players just prefer it. As a gm tank player in ow1 and 2 I prefer 6v6 I do not enjoy solo tank I stopped playing tank because it's just not even close to as fun. Counter swapping is much worse in 6v6 you can play around counter swapping in 5v5 but that gameplay loop is boring to me. Where as in 6v6 you have more options for counterplay without directly counter swapping. More choice is better
@@diegocorvalan5435 a very small minority. And those clips on X and tik tok are just about the most shallow medium you could imagine. If that's what the perception of discourse is based on by a creator, that's their own made issue at that point.
In any legitimate discussion or thread, nobody thinks 6v6 will solve everything.
When people (in general) say something could be fixed by 6v6, the implied meaning is that 6v6 offers the foundation to better solve that issue. Just like Hog isn't a solved tank by just switching to 6v6, but he will be damn easier to manage his extremes in a 6v6 format, than the 5v5 format. Same with Ana nade for example when people keep crying about that any time it has any sense of power to it. 6v6 offers a foundation to make it less oppressive compared to 5v5. And most things are like this, because most things were inherently developed for 6v6 in mind in the first place so no wonder 6v6 can offer "A" solution to many problems. Not the perfect solution to everything, but many solutions to many problems. If it didn't offer more solutions (chief among which is gameplay enjoyment overall), people wouldn't advocate for it.
Lot of 6v6 strawman arguments on this one. Shouldve had samito on everyone just agreeing with eachother isnt productive
What if....Sombra Virus was a melee ability with some kind of backstab interaction?
I like this a lot
What if they also made Sombra wear a balaclava and speak in a French accent. Like she's undercover or something
Love this idea. I'd gladly kick Virus to the curb for Sombra to regain more utility - but with how team-dependent that utility version was, I would not at all mind avenues for more individual skill expression in exchange for some of her busted mobility. A melee applying a DoT would be novel too
edit: wait I haven't slept, this might be a Spy joke. I thought tying Virus to landing a melee was a neat idea
6v6 had low lows, but so does 5v5. I don't think one of them was worse than the other. Tanks in OW2 right now make all interactions with them into a low low.
Oh no!!!!! Queuing into a roadhog otp!!! How is that any different then queuing into a mercy or lw otp now??? Shit is still fucking ass. Personally I'd rather have a roadhog as my tank partner then be a solo tank.
@@X_MANGO__ SO TRUE
Is is just me or has bogur gotten really intolerable as of lately? Dude really needs to take a break cause oh my god is he an overdramatic whiner
@@cheeseballs4551 he's extremely cringe. Dude is like 30 and making sigma face all podcast long.
Ice cold take, make junkensteins lab an unranked game mode, no swaps, full cast, straight goofy stuff, then balance the normal cast/normal game mode(s) competitively, no more half concessions for casuals. Trying to play both sides on balance is ass, you wanna have silly fun? Lab. wanna learn? Unranked. Wanna be competitive? Comp.
Damn, you know the discussion is one-sided when SVB has to be the one to bring up the opposing arguments multiple times
‘Tactical Sombra’ aka hide in open space with perma stealth and hack insta burst a target or emp in the middle of the enemy team to cancel all counter play. So tactical and strategic
The Ramattra hate is crazy. Leave my boy alone
I didn't realize anyone hated him tbh. I hate playing tank but Ram is one of my favorite characters to play.
The identity of the game has been totally sabotaged by the ever increasing ease with which supports can cancel or outheal offensive plays. Overwatch was known for its teamwork (tank combos) and huge plays like 6k blades, grav dragons, massive Dva bombs, etc. In OW2 the health pools, healing levels, and escape abilities mean these sorts of plays are verging on being mathematically impossible to pull off. Most casuals or support players don't understand because they were never taking risks or making plays to begin with, and are enjoying running the lobby denying all value while barely conscious.
It baffles me that people will still actively shill for a version of the game whose "big moments" have been objectively cut in half if not more. Not to mention the fact that this entire game was based off a scam (pve) and has had nothing but massive balancing issues since its launch.
@@Qwmp- it’s because of the doomers and zoomers that are just addicted but don’t wanna rip the wool off. There’s people that love this game that can’t play it anymore, and then they’re the brainless people who are indifferent and don’t want to think about it. It’s political that way.
Legend has it, Bogur was bullied by a kid in school, and that kid preferred 6v6 over 5v5 and that’s why he hates everyone who thinks 6v6 is better
Dude, wtf
least mentally damaged Overwatch 1 frog
Can't wait for 6v6. Nerf healing, nerf tanks. Mmmmm so good
The falloff removal made literally everyone go "wtf???" I dont know how that wasnt reintroduced.
Hot take: people exaggerate queue times and they’re not really that bad.
Kran lowkey pisses me off more than custa did in that one episode
I'm convinced Reinforce is Kraandop's father in game and IRL
Bruh their voices are so similar
28:30 I think Sumbera’s hack and virus should be combined. Idk why they combined her mobility options and not make hack on a skill shot
Shield could just halve the damage from Ramatra and maybe x1.5 to the shield.
Bogur you stopped playing tank in 5v5. Accept that it is just worse than 6v6.
@@amerhst1201 honestly it’s weird that he’s saying all this when literally nobody plays tank anymore. Don’t you think of 5v5 was working more people would want to come to the game and also play tank?
@@Waywurd08open queue is full of tanks and dominate the leaderboards tho. So I don’t think it’s really a 5 v 6 thing, it’s more of a role thing. I think tanks just don’t like playing alone and having the pressure of being The Tank. And if it was 6v6 with 1 tank they’d still feel that way. But I’m still looking forward to the 6v6 rollout and min 1 max 3 system.
@@DNYLNY they’d still feel the pressure of being a solo tank if they were a solo tank. As a tank main in ow1 the feeling of big plays, beating opponents with strategy instead of mechanical skill, synergizing with another tank and improving on that synergy over time, and not being counterswapped constantly was a lot more fun
min 1 max 3 actually brings really interesting balance opportunities if we take the idea behind kingmaker and apply it here, too. they can make a "base" balance of a role/hero, and nerf or buff that base based on how many of that role are in a match. for example, 2 tanks have the vanilla stats. but if there's only one, they have buffed health and/or damage. if there's 3, they have nerfed health and/or damage relative to the base. i think that could actually really work and open up counterplay to the inevitable 3 tank comps.
at high levels, it will likely end up being so each team has one role that is buffed, one role that remains vanilla base stats, and one role that is nerfed. maybe having support be the buffed role (with only one player on it) rather than dps can be a viable strategy against a 3 tank comp depending on the individual hero pools of your teammates.
oftentimes at pro/high level, the stats of the hero is more important than the individual players' skillset and strengths. having the actual stats of a hero be fluid will provide an extra layer of strategy in team composition
listening to this ep on a side monitor while playing WoW and omg does this make me glad I took a break when I did. Widow/orisa meta sounds like hell
Do not let Reinforce cook again, thanks!
I don't play comp anymore so I struggled trying to find a reason to play this game. But the Junkenstein mode felt so refreshing after so long. I am sad that it is limited time but happy that it's pretty popular and is still being played.
Hopefully they'll cook more with this in the future and possibly add it as one of the core modes? It feels very replayable to me because of this progression feel with the talents.
Arcade is just not popular i feel like the mode would die out very quickly if it became permanente. Biggest issue however is creating and balancing talents for ALL heroes, can you even imagine what it would look like? One of the reasons PvE failed, its way too much work and almost impossible to achieve
The issue with double translocator with stealth attached is enabling perma stealth again. Stealth and translocator needs to be on seperate cooldowns and hack and virus should be combined
Making translocator cool down longer is the worst thing you can do. If it is too long then I just have to sit there in invis in the backline until it ends so I can translocate again to escape. Just make the stealth its own ability again and give it a duration.
Sombra's "stealth" comes with quite loud sound cues, rivaling Reaper's bold declarations when "flanking."
Also, the reason why they made her leave invisibility when hacking is because it reduces the delay before she can start damaging after a hack (there is a delay between pressing left click and actually shooting when starting in stealth).
no matter if we go 5vs5 or 6vs6 - we need to rework still half of the roster for any mode.
Let him pierce through shield BUT he will not dmg the shield at all - its just insane to make 130 in one punch - 65 dmg to shield and 65 dmg to the hero health pool
Think about in that relation - Juno Ultimate does more heal than LW Tree AND you also get dmg boost and its not destroyable.
Less heal if you want to keep the dmg or if you want to keep both - lower down both
NO we dont need fucking comp system or something else in junk lab! We need a fun mode and not everything should be comp!
We have enough variety in the Tank role that even if you were to get 2 DPS players who queued tank there's a workable comp. That said I completely agree with the take of making Offtank/Bruiser its own role in 6v6 and hopefully Phreak will be built like a Main Tank to help the distribution a bit.
The Sombra invis only being 5 seconds really doesn’t feel as bad as they claim IMO. By the time the 5 seconds is up, there’s only 1 second left on the cooldown so just find a corner or piece of cover to hide behind for 1 sec then throw your translocator at the floor to restealth immediately. I have no issue sneaking up on widowmakers just like before once I got used to it.
The Sombra nerf to hack is even attempting hack...for any reason. It's so sad to see how much they nerfed her and they're doubling down and trying to make this work.
I'm glad the got rid of permanent stealth but the whole "translocator and stealth are one ability" is sad. I don't think it'll ever work.
boohoo cope
@@Hayv123bronze can't handle sombs lmfao
@@runaway74me when im ignorant and think a hero has to be called S-tier by your favourite streamer before they’re considered fundamentally broken
@@nickve777 when did I say she's not fundamentally broken? Guy 1 says he's glad permastealth is gone while offering valid criticism and all Guy 2 does present himself as one who only thinks in terms of "wahhh sombra evil" by twisting the knife in the fresh wound that is sombra's kit's confused state. You're swinging at ghosts here lmfao
Me when I can't afk invis and spam hack the tank. Lololololololollolo
Based af answer from Bogur regarding Sombra.
It was inane to ever turn her into an assassin when her entire kit was predicated on low damage, high mobility, high utility. That's why she had such busted mobility, she was basically a third support whose value was tied to denying enemies and setting up dives.
No shit she turned into the most hated, cheesy spawncamping noobstomper with more damage, while keeping permainvis and the same cross-map access with TL. And instead of tackling that fundamental problem they just try to clunk it further and further in an attempt to balance this worse Tracer/Reaper.
If ability lockout was too strong or obnoxious, 1 make it affect tanks way less than squishies, 2 come up with some combat utility that is more interesting, and 3 rework Hack's cast requirements.
Hey SVB, in a future episode I'd love to hear you talk about what Overwatch could do to get you to come back and play.
These 3 Chungus' have great input but they're already playing everyday. The input of a veteran player who isn't playing any longer might be the input Blizzard needs to hear most
I haven't played OW in months, but I still love the pod.
I'd really like to hear another metal rank pod. (not like the last one, where most of the guests were diamond/masters. I'm talking PEAK gold or plat.) It would be good to hear from the "silent majority" instead of "just another" group of the top 1%.
this panel has been the most pleasant and conversational in a while.
i like all the other guests, but having limited grandstanding, soap-boxing, and "debating" was refreshing
They should do a experimental card with tanks where they make changes to balance that lean heavily in a specialization at the cost of something else to the same extent. Meaning they should create three groups of four tanks. One group heavily favors dps/speed potential but has very low hp/armour, the next group is the inverse where it has low dps/speed potential but high hp/armour/shields and the last is mediocre at both dps/health but has high uptime on utility abilities. So less balanced tanks overall but leaning very heavily on dps potential, tanking potential or utility potential while sacrificing the other two outcomes. The tanks are too good at everything while also feeling lackluster at specific things at times, if that makes any sense. Just do a experimental card test and see how it turns out. Maybe its terrible
I love this podcast because it brings different opinions and perspectives, but unfortunately this one is just boring because they all agree on everything all there takes are the same it's like watching someone talk to himself 😂 I would have loved to see Spilo or and people who have different takes not to say anything bad about these guys theyy fine but specifically this episode is just boring but thanks Svb anyway❤.
Exactly what I said. Circle jerk made this episode pretty boring . I don't care if they disagree but when nobody is willing to play devil's advocate what's the point
@@petrparkr8011 need spilo realth Samito and freedo to really go
I can tell none of these 3 guests have actually engaged with any of the strong 6v6 arguments made by people like Samito or Hawk in good faith. They are constantly crying about Tank stacking. I only heard the word sustain once and it was not even discussed further. Honestly a bit disappointing from these guys. Almost all 6v6ers heavily emphasize the importance of keeping sustain abilities from the dlc heroes like Brig, Baptiste and Moira in check. The problem of Goats and double shield was a support problem. It was not a support that was being switched out for Sombra in the late Goats era. It was a Tank. The change to 6v6 HAS to be accompanied by serieus overhauls to these ridiculous AOE sustain abilities. THAT is what will make this game better. Not just the change to 6v6. :) Have a lovely day everyone!
Get out here debate bro! No one cares about you and your "strong arguments"
Bro they literally all mentioned that if 6v6 popped off, they would be fine for the entire game switching over to it tf
But you all think this dev team is incompetent XD, strong 6v6 arguments include calling the dev team trash and incompetent. So they would suddenly become competent in 6v6?
Never beating the zealot allegations
All 3 guests are mainly tank players so obviously they would be kinda biased.
The newest game mode for OverWatch coupled with the failed PVE assets is the perfect breeding ground for the birth of The OverWatch MOBA!
NOBODY IS PLAYING TANK ANYMORE!!! WE NEED 6v6 back!!
that's such an ironic post my dude.
if no one is playing tank, how is 6v6 gonna solve it? longer queue times for literally everyone?
f that. there are upsides to 6v6 that I enjoy - tank synergies and combo plays. but ensuring that there's one person to lead the team and make space makes it easier for supports, easier for dps to know who to target, etc. it's just better as a tank player. plus the queue times are fast.
Not enough tank players is why they went to 5v5.
@ I have an idea! Let’s improve the tank experience, bring combos and synergy back, and get rid of counter swapping! That will bring people to tank just like how people were brought to support. The problem is tank never got this treatment and they don’t buy as many skins. There wasn’t profit incentive to go back UNTIL NOW since the game has become a skin seller
@@Waywurd08tank is not popular in every game, most people want to go kill or just be in the back helping, and that Is fine, tank will always have the most pressure and everyone will see your mistakes, synergy combos even if cool will never be enogh to fight the core principal of the roles
@ no this isn’t the case for Overwatch, tanks in Overwatch are the best tanks ever made.
I've been saying what Reinforce has said for a while. Some DPS can be made off tanks, and normal off-tanks would slide into that role. No reason why Bastion or Mei can't be moved to off-tanks.
how stoned is Bogur lmaooo 😂
I think no matter what it will at least become an arcade mode. They won’t tell 6v6 players that it’s gone forever after the tests end
Yeeeeees finally Kraandop, the undisputed goat!
My own love for ow has been rock bottom for a while but seeing SVB loose his love for the game sucks. Ow2 is so trash
where’s my episode with super tf
12:46 is what i called out in a spilo video back in dva meta about how orisa was getting micro buffs like crazy and was going to become the next meta after dva. This guy in the comments was denying me in every way he could think of making no sense at all claiming orisa was nerfed by the "massive armor nerfs" funny how I called it, and shows that some players really just dont understand how a character is creeping up in power until its too late and they become the only tank played.
My biggest issue with ow nowadays is the mobility creep. It feels like everyone has a crazy mobility option now. Especially newer characters
I didn’t play a ton of sombra, but the most I liked her was her season 12 variant (the latest one prior to rework) and I think her only issue was perma stealth. However I think tying stealth to tp is always going to feel terrible.
I’d suggest separating tp and stealth again, as well as getting rid of the opportunist passive with bonus hack damage. You could make stealth activate by holding crouch for a short moment, and then it lasts for maybe 10 seconds, then goes on cooldown.
So this is basically just s12 Sombra without perma stealth, while having the fluidity of two abilities not being tied to each other. Removing perma stealth with no other compensation is a big is a nerf, so after that if she’s underperforming you could tweak her somehow, maybe increasing hack duration by half a second (idk what it currently is) or giving her virus or gun SLIGHTLY more damage.
TLDR: I think having stealth and tp on one ability feels bad, I liked s12 sombra, maybe we can have a 10 second stealth activated by holding crouch.
I switched from sombra to venture. His playstyle is very similar but has 2 cooldowns to get in and out vs 1 with sombra. And he counters widow nicely with the right positioning.
The swtich to 5v5 was NOT driven by queue times. It was purely for gameplay reasons.
It was because the previous gen consoles couldn’t handle the new engine with 6v6.
My take on a potential Sombra change:
Passive - getting a kill on a hacked target gives her a 2 second stealth with 30% movement speed, 1 second after disengaging from a fight.
Hack - scrambles enemy hud, doesnt break stealth, doesnt disable abilities, refreshes virus except for transfer. Is still able to be interrupted by damage.
Virus - does ~10-15 health damage, bypassing shields, armor, shield health, but not overhealth. Also spreads to other enemies within ~3m of primary target hit. Duration of 5s, or 2-3 damage per second, transfer to secondary targets window is 1s after primary target is hit. Breaks stealth.
New(ish) ability: Incognito - gives her stealth for 10-15s with 10% movement speed, hacking breaks this stealth, whether its an enemy or health pack.
Translocator - same as it is now.
EMP - proc’s hacked on any enemies in her range but also reduces peripheral vision (like illaris ult), refreshes virus debuff on enemies (including transfer proc), proc’s hinder for 5s as well.
Also increase her spread for her weapon, and slightly nerf per bullet damage.
Also they should change Rematra's block ability to a timed ability, with cooldown period. So only active for 4/5 seconds but all the damaged absorbed is transferred to his punches adding either damage, range or a combination of both at lower values than specifically damage vs range. Or give him a added utility when a certain damage threshold is reached such as added speed or quicker cooldowns or he becomes enraged for a small period with his omnic eyes turning red etc. They should make the block only last a specific amount of time and punish the enemy for shooting you. Same concept as bubbles. Just holding your fist out in front of you is just boring and adds nothing to the gameplay. If the only intent was to block I would rather have a bubble/shield that burst and maybe that explodes, pushing enemies away. There are so many other ideas that adds utility where he doesn't just stand their with his arms up looking like a fool that is at the wrong place at the wrong time with "dumb ways to die" playing in the background.
@Group Up! Podcast @1:44:00 The Argument of tanks and supports being picked in open queue over dps is not acurate, because of the balancing is done for role queue only, not open queue. The Passives are still there and the Tank passive has the role queue passives in there as well as the non role queue passives. Tanks and support are broken because they get overbuffed for that mode. The only time open queue had way more dps was when the dps passive came out with the healing reduction when it was at its strongest.
How did no one bring up putting stealth on a separate cd for sombra? That is the most immediate fix to make her somewhat fun to play and stall time for a more comprehensive rework. Also i'm def being a downer here but please keep the pickable passives to a seperate, non-main gamemode.
it was a CD during ow1, they changed her hit so many times tho
We don’t need so many passives in regular gameplay. I don’t want the game to become Paladins 2. 😂
Sombra has the good stuff removed all the time every rework, next they are gonna remove virus like wtf. Sombra needs to have her hack tied to her virus ability, 5 sec stealth on a seperate cooldown on 6 sec, translocation on 6 sec cooldown, opportunist damage boost only on ultimate. Sombra does not lose invis when throwing or getting shot virus, but loses when shooting.
I don't really like the idea of tanks having rapid-fire weapons PLUS high-survivabliity being a part of (or intended part) of their kit.
Reinforce made a great argument for Junos speed to go down to 40; when its currently 50 on a shorter cooldown than lucios 60.
Kraan on the show makes me want to listen in, even if SVB is zzz
I never imagined i would confuse kraans voice with someone else lol how wild
I’ve also been sayin tanks with smaller hitboxes and more range are the move…. See the tanks like interacting with things at range
Juno will stay strong as long as the skins sell well season by season.
Enjoying the discussion as always just very confused how everyone completely forgot that most games in most ranks pre role queue were played with mostly dps, no matter that role was weak. In the Real game people don't want to play tank, always haven't
Are people stupid for thinking in some cases there is a conspiracy behind? after all the shit uncovered in the last months? maybe someone needs a reality check and maybe is the guy that quit the game but still makes podcasts about it and not the playerbase, just sayin'
Asking a high rank competitive player if pve is good is doomed to fail, because of the "fighting people is more fun" answer. Give them elden ring they'd prefer pvp game
New mode popular because of lack of hero swaps is debatable, because I'm 100% sure that all people on rein wished they could switch vs me on orisa
1:15:14 That is not how that works. You can play Reaper in this game-mode and suffer for the remaining 15 mins of the match because the rest of the characters are all poke orientated. Not being able to swap just means that your stuck being at a permanent disadvantage for the entirety of the match. The fact that they buffed Ashe and nerfed Reaper just shows how quickly this game-mode is going to die out.
2:10:30 when OW2 came out supports were big whiny babies because they didn't have a 2nd tank to peel for them. To be fair the DPS passive back then turned flankers into gigaflankers.
Kraan and bogur? Some of my favorites
"...and bogur" 😂😂😂😂
i think people just need to get used to the new sombra. a lot of changes people are suggesting is basically infinite stealth. "oh man i wish i could translocate and instantly go back into stealth the second i exit stealth. but also infinite stealth is bad." so weird. is one second of non stealth really that bad?
You're full of it, most people want them to separate the stealth and translocator cooldowns and remove virus.
Translocator is supposed to be a tool to disengage and stealth is for engaging. Putting them together is counterintuitive and ruins gameplay flow.
I don't mind them being separate. Keep in mind when I say "changes people are suggesting." It's not exclusive to the svb cast. Also, when I say people need to get used to her, I really think it's a skill issue. I've had no problem timing my translocator to be able to get around the map quickly in a similar fashion to tracer. Then timing my engage to just as my invisibility wears off. By the time I'm done shooting the person I'm shooting I usually have my translocater up again to escape.
As an Orisa main, let me welcome you all into Mauga meta again. Hope you like it. It's time to go back to be a ball main. Hopefully, my team likes not having a tank in front of them.
we literally would be happier without your fucking main, hope you enjoy being hated by the whole community
Mauga is absolute dogwater right now, it takes only 1 single counter to completely nullify all his value or make his supports have to pump insane heals into him. In fact, he’s one of the only characters right now that every single tank can outplay, he’s basically just a Reinhardt with no shield and guns instead of a hammer.
For Juno should they reduce the ultimate healing even more, as low as 50 per second, but give her back her original falloff range? Both her damage and heal is tied to this short falloff range. Maybe it is a non issue but I would rather have the longer range on her heal/dps and a significantly weaker ult rather than the way it is now.
50 Hps is too low, it’s less than a Mercy valk 😂
@@itzpurple_queen9711 Oh that is true LOL. I just heard people wanted to nerf it further and it was now at 85... xD
Sombra was nerfed because the widowmaker mythic skin wouldn't sell.
I honestly like Orisa killing things and not having falloff I would like the survival part to be less
Problem is less survivability makes zarya a hard counter so much that it wouldn't even be worth playing her
Bogur with the good take on Sombra - "there are annoying characters in every game, let her be annoying"
I like the idea of not allowing swapping but it needs to be tested. I feel like the game needs a pick/ban phase if this is the case. Imagine accidentally locking into a game against 5 counters and not being able to swap.
The problem with player imposed hero bans is certain heroes like Mercy, LW and Sombra will be banned all the time due to hero perception.
Honestly fuck stealth, I just want her to be able to run as fast as she use to. Lock the speed to a button like soldier .
She can chase down left over enemies trying to regroup.
Loved seeing Kraand on here, hope we see more of him in the future 😃
you translocate, use the 5 seconds to get to the flank, wait the 1 second before having translocater back and THEN engage. WHY is that so hard to understand?? she has so much lethality rn, just stop playing like rats
It's 6 seconds of mandatory down time. Why play sombra over anyone else?
While with any other real flanker hero you can just engage and be consistent throughout the whole fight, sombra is REQUIRED to have a 6 second down time.
They made a character with down time issues have even more downtime, I wish sombra was anywhere near as good as tracer or even Genji rn
whatever they do with Sombra, it needs to bring Fitzy back to the game, we miss him.
Overwatch 1 Sombra was better. Yes, she had ultimate escape, but she removed herself from the fight completely. It's way higher price in 5v5 where you HAVE TO be in the fight all the time, so it's fair.
Just make her trans to beep nearby or something, that's all she needed. Also can move hack to virus, so it's a skill shot.
did people actually try the ram rework before the revert?
Tank players are so unbothered lol. We're just like, fuck it, my queue times are gonna be instant either way, so just do whatever.
Why doesn't blizzard make a support that their ultimate is they give 15 percent or something ult charge to another player on the team! thats cool and innovative. Could also have a support ult that's like a nano but the damage the player does drains the enemies ult charge a little bit or something.
19:28 - are we going to play dumb and pretend like they don't do these weird balance changes because certain characters are in the shop and they want to sell more skins? are we really going to pretend they didn't dumpster sombra because widow mythic came out? that they didnt nerf rammattra because there was a reinhardt skin in the shop? is this what we're doing?
SVBs face being devoid of the tiniest amount of interest in this game is hilarious