Why do FF14 Players hate the Manderville Relics?
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- Опубликовано: 7 сен 2024
- Final Fantasy 14 players have been upset with the Manderville Relic Weapons and I wanted to talk about why that is and what we can do about it.
Come rant about the Relics with me in my Discord / discord
#ffxiv #endwalker #ff14
Shoutouts to the Roemance Club on ultros for letting me film there!
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SE: *Makes relic weapons a true grind to unlock and upgrade*
Community: “this shit is so tedious wtf, I hate Eureka and Bozja, why are these damn weapons so grindy”
SE: *Makes relic weapons easily obtainable with Tomes that you can quickly get by just doing dailies/weeklies or running endgame content*
Community: “This shit is too easy, this relic is so disappointing where is the grind? Worst relic of all time”
Gamers will always find something to bitch about
The never ending struggle of game design
Bozja is a good zone to me, the relic that I most liked to grind.
Bozja is perfect in my IMO.
ARR Relic is insane just doing 1st level already give me PTSD.
The thing you and many others fail to realize is that those are 2 different sections of the community, not the same ones. But one is much, much larger. Should we be removing all content to make things better for the very small section of the community who hates actually playing the game?
Being able to complete almost the entire grind step before logging in on patch day is too far in the other direction, seriously. If you make someone take a shower in boiling hot water and then change it to freezing cold, people are gonna be unhappy with both results, that's not the community's fault.
I’m perfectly happy with them so far. Running old raids/trials 20 to 30 times a piece or hoping for drops in Bozja (which were way too low drop rate) killed my desire to finish ShadowBringer Relics.
Yeah honestly I don't want to deal with the rng progression much myself either haha
I hated Bozja. I ended up giving up a few relic steps in.
@@continuallyblessed44 alot of em are best at there like second step anyways
Thank you, I AINT DOIN ALLA DAT
I will agree doing bozja got anoyimg at times but I will say getting the relic was WAY easier than getting that air cycle mount. But I did feel satisfied with it's completion.
Honestly, the true lesson here is that you can’t make everyone happy.
It doesn’t matter what the team does, there’s always going to be someone that’s going to complain because they just want to complain.
Yeah there are always two sides to each coin on that front. You can't have both a big grind and a little one XD but it might change up a lot in later steps of the relic at least
@@Sonicrida I expect it will. Every relic thus far has boiled down to "do FATEs or throw tomestones at Rowena" for the first step, often second too. Including Eureka, which boiled down to farming trash until slightly fatter trash showed up to yell at you for bullying its siblings.
People who complain just to complain are a very small minority. Most of the people who complain are entirely warranted to feel however they feel about the content without being condescending to them. This all turns into feedback that the devs will use to weigh decisions about whatever changes are to come in the future.
@@archael18 honestly meant it more in the “you can’t have it both ways” sense, in that there’s always going to be someone that’s upset with how something was implemented.
Generally, most hardcore players want long grinds, and most casuals want shorter quest steps. Unfortunately you can’t have it both ways.
Facts
I would also point out one thing, a thing that is massive:
People complained about every single version of relics, even Bozja and Eureka, despite people wishing for it to come back. So it can be a little hard to make consistent ways to doing relics.
Yeah this is the struggle for sure. It's going to be hard to please everyone!
I for one am glad i am not stuck in relic jail Bozja. Holy cow that stuff was (and still is) boring. I think people just want something to do, which is fair. But let's respect our own time, please. Let's not settle for bad content just for the sake of having something to do. Tomes>Bozja.
@@GoatOfWar meanwhile there's me who goes into bozja for fun XD
@@Sonicrida I'm glad you enjoy it, but i personally would rather just spend a bunch of tokens than do content i thoroughly dislike.
@@GoatOfWar oh absolutely! My dream relic gives people the option to progress that makes the most sense for them
Passively got all the HW animas over a span of a few months and it was like the thing that kept me going consistently cause i would always think "cool these leftover poetics/mats can go towards my next one" once i finished up my daily rotation of stuff. Once you got several down you might just say well imma just get the whole set.
I think the best option was on Shadowbringers: you can either run old/current content or go to the dedicated zone. Even if you don't like one, you may do the other or both a little bit. They lost the opportunity push the variant dungeons as a step, that wouldn't be overly hard and would encourage people to do Variants/Criterion after a while. Or even Orthos. That's really what bummed me out.
Agree these new contents (orthos, variant) are left out after a week, they should reuse them instead of reusing freaking low level dungeons and msq with roulette you already did thousands of time..
After fully completing my ARR relic grind this is a breath of fresh air 🥲
Respects for that grind. Idk if I could ever do it haha
the fact that you had to run an equivalent of 100 dungeons for one relic for all steps burned me out I had to take a break entirely from relics after
I've done all the relics from all the expansions, plus armor, except for half the ARR ones which I'm working through now, and the tedium of the infamous books is truly mind-boggling. Anima was easy because you could pre-buy all the poetics items over time, and then just grind out the light farm steps for each pretty quickly. I passively completed the shadowbringers ones for the most part because I was going hard at the solo deep dungeons before endwalker, and also got a ton of mats while grinding to complete all the duels, and DR and DRS were really fun.
I've done all the relics from all the expansions, plus armor, except for half the ARR ones which I'm working through now, and the tedium of the infamous books is truly mind-boggling. Anima was easy because you could pre-buy all the poetics items over time, and then just grind out the light farm steps for each pretty quickly. I passively completed the shadowbringers ones for the most part because I was going hard at the solo deep dungeons before endwalker, and also got a ton of mats while grinding to complete all the duels, and DR and DRS were really fun.
I'm in the minority, but I Love the Manderville Relics! I flat out enjoy the Inspector Hildibrand side quests from ARR to the current Endwalker expansion. And it feels great to get such a nice reward as part of completing this long line of side questing. Granted I wish there was more to it than just collect 3,000 tomestones. But for those of us who love Hildibrand and played through all of his quests, being rewarded with these weapons makes the experience that much more special. You're free to disagree, this is just how I feel.
I do agree that it's great for people who love the quest line! It kinda makes me wonder if Tataru will get her own somewhere down the line or even the island
As someone who had to do the Hildebrand quest from beginning to end for the relics, I thought the story was pretty funny and got through part of the heavensward quest line. After that I got bored of the type of comedy and ended up skipping the rest of the cutscenes.
@Alberto I did the Hildebrand quest when they came out- but I will say- the most priceless thing was reading my sister (who hates the quest line) chat log during the HW part. It was absolutely priceless and totally worth her complaining to my mom later that I was mean for laughing...... I'm a horrible sister I know...
the story line seems nice, i just wish they were separate from the relic questline, i ended up just skipping all the cutscenes because i wanted to get the relic when it released
I love them too!
currently got all 19 relics up to date, im fine with these current steps because their relaxing. i just hope the future steps aren't too annoying
That's a grand collection haha
I expect the last part of the weapon to be incredibly grindy. And it will be the fault of RUclips influencers bitching about it being too easy.
Anima weapons
78 Crystals from fates with drop chance
195 dungeons
156 trials
273 a9s
208000 poetics.
Shb relic,
25500 poetics
60 fates x 17 weapons = 1020 fates.
85x delubrum + 28x dalriada
Once astronomy gone, and turned into poetics,
Step 1 And Step 2 Manderville already needs 57000 poetics.
Now you need to fight where to spend your poetics on.
-Poetics gear for your other jobs lvl 50, 60, 70, 80, and soon 90.
-Anima relics + manderville relics + other relics here and there, Orchestrian rolls.
I'm fine with the ease of farming for EW relics. Meanwhile I can do delubrum here and there. those who farmed bozja 60 fates per weapon was easy when it was the current content. but now, the number of people farming became far smaller.
Bozja is suicide on most datacenters as it was made for lots and lots of people.
Frankly square needs to decide on a reward system for people to revisit old content. 90% of the players only do it for the shinnies. and 9.5% do it for the story. Both leave once finished.
People do tend to forget about that ARR Relic grind. The Atma, the books... Sinking ungodly amounts of materia into the sphere scroll.
It was SO much that the developers allowed someone WITH a full Zenith weapon to completely skip the first part of the Heavensward relic quests by surrendering it for the starting components.
The relic weapons are MEANT to be a grind, though.
They are supposed to be the time equivalent of getting a static and defeating the current Savage raid tier for its weapon for people who cannot do the raiding or don't want to do the raiding.
Most people complain about the insane slog of getting through making them because they try to make ALL of them...
But in comparison, getting 1500 poetic tomestones to further the relic tier is kindof lackluster. It made it EASIER to do than to get a raid weapon... And that might need a bit of tweaking.
Nah, its fine like that, a lot of us had something called life outside a videogame.
@@oscarandreesAgreed, Sorry guys but I can't afford to spend all day sitting in my room all day to grind out relic like a loser.
So tomestone dump is much more preferable,you get those from doing daily roulette anyways.
People are quick to forget the first Bozja weapon step was literally just 1000 poetics, the second step was farming bland normal enemies or fates in 5 year old zones, and the third step was exceptionally short by doing 6 synced level 60 dungeons.
Or that Anima weapons were 95% throwing poetics at Rowena until she lets you dip your weapon in a new pop rocks flavour.
The simplification of relic weapons has been here since Heavensward. After your first weapon, every single one thereafter is immensely easier to complete. I do not understand why people are surprised.
But this is needed, I think. See, as more classes have weapons to be done, the more effort it takes. If every weapon was an excessive grind, there would be too much. And the grind is no longer needed. FF14 has gotten lots more content over the years to run, including repeatable stuff. Expanded palace of the dead, heaven on high, eureka orthos, island sanctuary, gold saucer content, etc. Back in the days of ARR there simply was not much to do. This is a fact of how these games progress. So the relic grind was put in place as a massive grind to keep players engaged.
Such a grind is no longer needed. Not to that extent. The scope is broadening.
So to the people upset that the relic stuff is too simple right now, please consider the first steps of pretty much every relic weapon that came before. As each and every one boiled down to "farm fates or spend tomestones." Nothing has changed.
This is a really balanced perspective and you're right that we have more ways to spend our time now compared to before. I'm very curious to see how the later steps are handled.
My biggest issue with the current relic weapons is how much it's inflated the cost of crafting mats and how it has made it so the only thing I can ever spend my tomes on is relics since I want all of them. I think they could have accomplished the same thing by introducing a new currency or item that drops from doing the same things as astronomy tomes, similar to moogle tomestone events.
I want to collect them all, too. But there is no work behind it. The stones for the relic-mats are a passive income since I get my weekly cap every week. And I even run roulettes just for the purpose to get those stones. But... well it's so monotonous.
I feel like a decent number of the people complaining about the relics this time around are only looking at it through a narrow perspective as well. Bozja and Eureka are neat zones, and cool in concept, and the people bitching about not having something similar to those this time around are likely the same people who were there when Stormblood and Shadowbringers were the newest expansions, and those zones were pretty populated. In Endwalker, Eureka is on life support at best, and Bozja is only populated more than Eureka because it's "the best" way of leveling jobs in that 70-90 range if you're trying to level a job fast. If there were more efficient methods, Bozja would also be on life support. But because the relics are tied to those zones, certain steps can be incredibly frustrating for players who joined in Endwalker (like my friends and I). For example, the Shadowbringers relics require an initial clear of Delubrum, and then 3 more clears per weapon (if you don't want to waste tons of time farming PotD that is) which finding enough people to do Delubrum is pretty hard today. Meaning the relics from those expansions with those zones are now much more frustrating and slow to complete than they used to be, purely because the content is no longer populated enough to sustain the zones in a healthy manner. And aside from the relics and some cosmetics, which the veterans from those expansions likely acquired while they were current content, there isn't a reason to go back to those zones at all, meaning they will never have a healthy enough population again.
As much as I like the idea of those zones, I'm glad we don't have a new one in Endwalker with relics tied to it (it would still be nice to have one *without* relics tied to it however, but I'm not bent out of shape over not getting one regardless) because while there would be a healthy population to complete the steps fairly easily at the moment, I wouldn't want new players to feel the frustration I do with Bozja and Eureka with a 3rd zone added on top of it. Having a grind associated with relics on its own isn't a bad thing, but in order to not make the grind frustrating for future players, it cannot be tied to things that will fall out of favor with a majority of players as time moves on. Meaning the only kind of grind that still works is something like the Anima Relic grind, where it's largely collecting a ton of tomes, and speed running some old content unsync'd. But at that point, it is just grind for the sake of having a grind, ensuring that you've simply wasted the proper amount of time before you can have your shiny new thing. In which case, why bother making it needlessly grindy? Which I imagine is the conclusion SE came to with the current relics. You can't give the relics unique grinds because it makes it needlessly harder if you weren't there when it was new, and there's no point in making it grindy for the sake of grind because that isn't respecting the player's time, so fuck it, 1500 tomes and you can have the weapon. Do your dailies and you get something cool looking for it.
The relics are never BiS until their final form anyways, and even then it isn't BiS for long, there are tons of other cosmetics with respectable achievements behind them in game, relics are not rare in the slightest, so being bothered by it being "too easy" is backwards to me. If you want a cosmetic you can flex, go do Savage raids, go do Ultimates, go do solo/flawless runs of PotD, HoH, or the new Eureka DD and get those titles, weapons, and mounts you can flex to everyone that says "look I did something difficult" rather than a relic that says "look I spent 56 hours in Bozja for this".
We all know the real flex in FF14 is not being homeless anyways, cosmetics be damned. I don't care about your relic weapon, I have a roof over my head and you don't, therefore take the L.
I was perfectly happy with the step, just mildly disappointed it was the same step twice in a row. I really appreciated how I could work on doing all 12 Variant routes and it would gradually make progress towards my relics as well, but yes, I do hope the next step will be a bit more interesting even if it doesn't introduce any sort of new content
I don't get why a routine you can plan for is bad.
"Here is the next quest: it's exactly the same as the previous quest" is generally frowned upon in video games. Routines you can plan for are great in real life, or jobs!@@dlamont4471
I am in a reallyyyyyy weird spot where I myself, do not enjoy the repeated tome dump steps. But it is not because I struggle to get them ontop of mats for crafting materials. I do hunts, a lot. Like 6800/10000 A and 3800/5000 S often in the past 3 years. I can cap like, TWICE a day depending on how free I am that day and if S Ranks are able to spawn. So having enough materials in a month without actively doing anything different, or able to get other fun extras while working on them. There is a balance that needs to be struck between having a specific goal, and not being forced to do one thing. Bozja near the end did that balance really well where some stuff WAS just Bozja based, but a lot of memories did not need you to get them just in Bozja areas outside of doing Castrum or DR the first time.
But there is loads of achievements, mounts, minions, and CONTENT made just surrounding the relic that has use outside of getting said relic for Eureka and Bozja. Especially the latter with a really good form of leveling up jobs. Not having an exploration zone this expansion just feels like there is nothing to actively do sadly.
I really wish there was more to do with the relics. The game needs more long-term content to work towards.
Could we make them worth that effort first? Look at a game like guild wars 2 the legendaries don't go out of use, and it takes almost equal effort.
If you look back at the forums, players complained about SHB relic weapon grind non stop and now they are saying they miss the grind can’t win 🤷♀️
That's your mistake assuming they are the same players. Different people have different opinions that are in fact different than yours. Go on and make blanket accusations to boost your own bruised ego, though.
@Providence Breaker As the people who wanted an easier time got what they wanted and quieted down, the guys who wanted grind content to be time-consuming and hard started complaining.
@@providencebreaker1558 I agree they might not be the same players, the conflict arises when you have players with very different play styles you’ll end up alienating one. Whatever choice FFXIV will make with relic weapons will always be contested.
Yeah that's why I like options. Bozja seemed like a good direction but hopefully they improve on it more in later relics if they do go back to that style.
To me it's the lack of comunity feeling around the relick progression that is missing... Yea I do my thing but : it feel like a solo grind... and I allready see the non feeling of this relics in the futur when you will just have to farm poetics to get them...
Yeah Eureka was one of the most fun things I've ever done in the game because of the community aspect!
I love the Manderville relic queet style for a couple very good reasons.
1. They are accessible to everyone
2. They are not time gated to a instance that could suffer from a lack of having multiple people participating.
Yeah the instance stuff worries me a little. Even though bozja and eureka are still active today, stuff like delubrum is kinda hard to do.
Yeah my biggest gripe at first is it didn't give me anything new to do, which, already just running roulettes every day had gotten stale for me ages ago. Since not only was it the same exact step as the first, and the first step was just tomes, it became kind of annoying. I personally am someone who tries to get all the relics just to have something to do, but with the 2nd step and the first step being just tomes, it made me have to choose between the first steps I don't have, and the 2nd steps I want to get, as well as continuing to prevent me from using my tomes for other things like crafting mats. Before the 2nd step came out, I was hoping that whatever it would make me do would help me get tomes so that I could get the first steps I still needed while working on the 2nd step, but that didn't happen, and then it boiled down once again into "just do your daily roulettes and catch every hunt train you can" which is already mind numbing unless you get some lively people in the train.
Yeah I feel that hard. One of my favorite things is when you get to work on multiple steps at once haha it feels so satisfying.
The part i like isn't the relic itself but pot prices spiking because people using tomestone to make relic so less competition in selling pots, make more gil with the inflation.
Heh I feel this but also kinda on the other side since I've made some good gil selling tome mats XD
Its weird cause so little has actually changed. You can still fate farm for tomes, you can still do old content in roulettes for tomes. Hell you can maps and pvp your way to that 1500 tomes. The only thing that "changed" is that the left the farm to you vs forcing you into content you dont want to do (Like the ARR books).
I think there was sort of an effect where people didn't miss bozja until they didn't have a new one no Mandeville zone or anything
My problem with the relic quest for this expansion is the fact that it's a huge tome dump. I'm already starved as it is with tomes as a crafter and constantly needing tome mats for food and pots. Being forced to only getting the relic through tomes is just making that problem worse
Well it’s either huge tome cost or heavy grinding like Bozja or Eureka. SE won’t give out relics weapon that free
there's only 1-5% players actively engage with oncontent synced EXs and Savage and i think SE are trying to make an alternative to encourage more players go participate in that harder content also imo the further stages are going to be more of a grind those ppl that like the relic grinds
Yeah the later stages will be the real story depending on how they go about implementing them.
My ideal is it's both. There is an exploration zone with other rewards like mounts and hair styles, but the relic can be done in the zone and with tomes to let you skip grinds/speed up steps.
I just wish we had to do something specific. I was not a fan of some of the steps for Eureka or Bozja weapons that are extremely solo unfriendly, like timeworn relics from DR, and think they need an alternate grind method. That said, these relics do not feel special or earned at all, you literally do nothing for them, just do dailies and stuff you already do anyway so it's WAY too far the other way. It kills the whole point. My resistance weapons were a painful nightmare to get but that's why I love using them, you have no special attachment to a relic you just buy with tomestones. And the other issue is, a special grind doing something different is what helped get us through the content drought between patches, so you feel like there's nothing to do. There should have been a middle ground that still made you earn the relic without being so group or zone restrictive. It could have been as simple as tying it to the new deep dungeon, criterion and island sanctuary to earn quickest, while allowing people to run certain old content or dailies to earn them more slowly. As it is now, you literally just got the next relic step on patch day because you already have tomestones. I do not get how anyone likes just being handed a relic for nothing when the whole point is them being personal achievements.
Yeah I'm hoping if anything to see what the later steps look like. I'm sure that they'll take feedback and opinions on the Manderville Relic so far. They evolved well in some ways form Eureka to Bozja and I expect to see even better improvements in 7.0
I feel like the reason people complain about the relic being too short is because there is practically no casual content in post EW, the trial series got integrated to the story, so there isn't a trial series side story, the Variant and Criterion dungeons have no purpose after you get everything, or cleared it once in the case of Savage criterion(Which they could have given a purpose too with the relic weapon, it doesn't have to be much, but still, I want an excuse to play that cool dungeon) (I dunno if deep dungeons count as casual content, since EO looks pretty wild in the difficulty scale.)
You have island santuary and relic are casual freindly
Yeah I would like there to be more of a reason to repeat Variant!
while Eureka and Bozja aren't perfect, they are very much memorable, especially the way it encouraged people to be more social. I remember my experience in bozja and eureka much more than just grinding tomes, and more importantly I met so many people in eureka and bozja.
that! I farmed eureka entirely from start to finish in like a week and half, was super fun, the NM music, the /shout about what happens in the field, help others get rez, team up with rando you see everyday and team up again, with the same objective. it was just memorable... nothing is memorable about getting tomes from roulette, you already do that so much everyday.. Same with bozja, I felt good when being there, like a different world???? with different goal, a different vibe, trying to survive the punishing fates (i'm talking to you red chocobo).. aww was so nice, wish i could go back there with a goal, but I dont :(
I find the Bozja grind to be entirely forgettable, actually, outside of the raid instances. Even then I only remember the first and last boss of Castrum LL in detail. Even then, I still think that XIV should shoot for these types of side activities over stuff like criterion dungeons, which have resigned themselves to PF and static groups really quickly. While Bozja isn't my cup of tea, I can still appreciate the artistry that went into it.
@@Avengedtenfold while being forgettable for some, it surely create better memories than "farming tomes in roulette" I have so much great memory of bozja/eureka, compared to nothing from tomes. Eureka/Bozja might not always be the cup of tea of everyone and it's perfectly fine, it might not be always easy, sometimes it's hard even painfully hard, but it was just a good addition to the game, relics are not required, so ppl should not complain about content that they decided to do by themselve, if you don't like it, don't do it, ppl who enjoy it will do it. No one can tell me that the ARR relic grind was fun compared to bozja lol, it was the most painful thing I did in the game, but i understand why it was like that because these weapons were a REWARD. right now the manderville relic doesnt feel like a REWARD at all, it's just completely given to everybody.
im not angry at you lol I agree with everything you said, i'm just venting a bit more :D
Honestly I was kind of hoping that they would have implemented a special item to grind that would drop from the Hildibrand trials, the V/C Dungeons, or other select content. And hopefully when the next step drops in 6.45, we'll get a more varied step.
Yeah variant dungeon working with the relic would've been cool especially since it's just so approachable solo. Maybe the next variant in 6.4 will be included? Here's hoping anyway haha
I don't mind much the look of the weapons themselves(the RPR one looks great on both steps to me at least), it's really what you can do to acquire them that needs to be better imo.
What i'm talking abt isn't about making them more grindy or easily farmable, but to have more ways to get them than simply just one. IMO, you should have the choice to have a more involved grind that is somewhat faster(like Zodiac, Anima and Bozjan where you could be doing fates, running specific dungeons/trials/raids x amount of times, farming an field instance, hell even include hunts as another alternative), but will feel a bit more grindy, alongside the one we have right now with tomes, although more segmented so it's a longer (like needing overall a few more than 1 daily worth of tomes to get it done) but still easier grind, and one similar to the Final step of the Anima Relics where you can run higher-end content to get it the fastest(it could serve as an alternative to BIS raid weapons, but that's another can of worms about gearing in the game lol) like Savage or Extremes.
I would prefer this a lot more instead of just one of those options for a single step, you know? It at least would have an incentive for people to play the game their own way rather than being stuck to only one type of farm. It would even calm down a big portion of the playerbase since it covers more types of playstyles than with one single daily grind.
Really, I feel like it's better to do this instead of what happened with Eureka relics and now Manderville relics.
I rather like the MCH Magnificent Manderville weapon.
@@HenshinFanaticsame here! And I also love the PLD sword/board. After the awfulness of the ShB PLD sword -- shield was awesome, but omg, that sword (shudder) -- at least the Manderville PLD relics look damn cool.
I don’t mind the fact that they’re not grindy I miss the community experience that you have with eureka and bozja. People in the shout chat asking to be rezzed in the shout chat. That’s the interesting part of SB and ShB relics.
Perfect world = options for social interaction + variety of ways to complete + less grindy so more can do them while not so "Easy" that it doesn't feel like an accomplishment haha
My only problem is that you need to do the entire manderville quest line to unlock them. There is no reason not to just make you do the current expansion part of the quest line to unlock the relics and if you want to know the story from before EW quest line that you can do it after or before if you desire.
Being forced to do a quest line spanning through almost every previous expansion is just a miserable experience especially since the whole manderville quest line was supposed to be an optional thing. With relics becoming BiS gear by the end of the expansion it makes no sense locking it behind an optional meme quest line.
I might be a minority but I love the exploration zones and any chance to do them was great. I farmed every shadow bringer relics and unfortunately people quit Eureka before I could get all of that. I know there’s discords but I don’t have the time for that anymore.
I must be in the minority then because I'm enjoying the Manderville relic steps so far. I don't need to stress how much I need to do stuff, just take it slow and easy. Also, I have previous relic weapons unlocked so that when I get CT or any other stuff that involves relics and get a drop it's like "Oh, right I'm doing this on the side as well"
Also, honestly, let's be real here, there is going to be a Manderville step at some point which will definitelly make people go "Okay, maybe collecting tomestones wasn't so bad" Current one kinda is a good motivator to do hunt trains and other stuff for achievements. Not all of us have the "I MUST GRIND OTHERWISE I'M BORED" mentality, also irl stuff takes up too much time.
I would say at this point pople are complaining for the sake of complaining.
Also, also (xD) if you're really that bored, here's a challenge (and a crazy one too): do the "500k points from every single gatherer/crafter job" firmament mount challenge or try getting the tripple triad card mount. You will definitelly say "never again"
Achievement hunting is definitely one approach haha. And yeah this is why I like when the relics give you options so there isn't just one way to complete it like bozja
You not in the minority ppl bitching doesnt mean most ppl hate current relics
I noticed that a lot of people complaining about not having anything to do, haven't done most of the content in the game.
I didn't mind that the first step of the EW relic was just a Tome exchange, but they really should have done something a little different for the second step. It didn't have to be anything long and drawn out, but another basic Tome exchange just feels lazy to me. Hopefully the third step is at least something else.
I'm definitely hoping for and expecting something more complicated for the later steps
It defeats the value of being something special. Ultimate weapons are precious because they are a staple of the collective effort; the necromancer title is fantastic because it is proof of something grand. Relic weapons (at least for me) were something like that, not great like those examples, but they required effort and time and filled a content spot for me. I got several Manderville relics and mats for 3 more in my bag; it's just not valuable. Still, I'm not saying this is good or bad; it's just not for me, which is perfectly normal as it is a great MMO, and from time to time, not being in the target audience is fine.
This is such a balanced perspective. I think if anything, it's nice to have a linear grind curve on the relics. Make it easier at the start but make it harder as time goes on so everybody can get a taste of the weapon while the dedicated players can progress all the way to the end.
As a newbie who just started the whole relic thing:
-ARR is a fucking hellish ball ache.
-Haven’t tried HW relics yet because I’ve just been buying the materials but its nice knowing I can bang out a weapon in 3 to 4 hours.
-Eureka is fine with the challenge log helping you through it (except Pagos, fuck Pagos).
Past that though, I haven’t gotten through Shadowbringers yet so I can’t comment on the last two.
So, I've done a lot of Bozja and Eureka. As someone who has played a lot of other MMO's that are far grindier than 14, I've been able to enjoy going in there and just... turning my brain off and farming casually to get what I want.
I feel like the biggest issue SE has is they dont really know how to balance the relic grind for different playstyles. If you dont like Eureka, there's no alternative in Stormblood. But if you dont like running old content, there's no good alternatives for the other relics at certain steps.
I feel like Bozja was probably the closest they came to finding that balance, with options for a lot of the stages having multiple ways to complete. The biggest mistake with it IMO is the fact that certain stages required progress in Bozja anyway, so if you were someone who elected not to do it earlier because you didnt need to, suddenly you were forced to make up all the progress before you could continue. I also found that a lot of critical engagements in Bozja were just a bit too rough for a lot of players to learn how to do properly, so many of the fights could become very, very tedious if people didn't know what they were doing. It also was not helped by the fact that Bozja gave a ton of xp as well, so there were also just a ton of people not in there at all for the relic, and it made grinds past the early content even worse in my experience as a lot of people never bothered going to Delubrum or Zadnor.
I'd rather have this than the complete garbage that was Eureka and Bozja. Give us the HW grind back over that.
This is actually far better than the last few weapons because we get the option of what to grind for tomwa instead of being forced into a zone that takes up tons of dev time and ends up dead in a few months.
Its also really similar to the Anima relics and those are the most accessible relic weapons in the game.
Everyone abruptly forgot how stuffy the leveling of old relics was? Mmmm... ok. For me, so far the best relic of all. Fu*k Eureka, fu*k Bozja, fu*k knocking out energy points.
Recency bias will certainly play a factor I'd say
I love Eureka and Bozja and they were some of the best content this game has ever made. The community and combined grind was the best. I was NOT one of the people complaining back then, and love them still... The people who complained then, and are happy about these weak relics today, are the worst imo...
Why want relics if they are just tome giveaways? it doesnt feel like an accomplishment, you dont work together on it, its just do roulettes and get your achievement reward... it feels watered down, and is pathetic people like this...
"FFXIV Players" are not a monolith. They do not share a group-mind. Some of us actually LOVE the Manderville relics.
I miss Boz and Eureka and NEVER complained. It was fun to have friends do drinking game if someone died you drink a shot. Now me not playing Endwalker until now and i have no friends online to enjoy the struggle we loved so much
This video perfectly summarizes my issues with some of the recent content coming out for the game. There's just not a whole lot of incentive to run things more than the first time when the rewards aren't great. I think the actual content itself is good, you just might not want to do it after a few runs. It's tough because many people hated the old relic grind because of it being slow and rng dependent, but now people are complaning for the opposite reasons. Maybe they just need to do some sort of middle ground for people to be happy, who knows?
Yeah, if anything, *more* content needs to be looped in like being able to uniquely do variant dungeons or even Eureka orthos without it just being tomestones. Heck, give island farmers a unique way to progress while still making a more involved and collaborative method so that there is a social component to it.
Please dont lump up the people for one thing as the same for the other thing. I am one of the players who loves to run Eureka Bozja PotD HoH PvP Raids Trials Maps and the grind. The complainers for actually playing content only care about glamour and e/rping social events in houses and afking. We have coexisted for a long time but relics shouldnt by any means be easy to get as it called RELIC for a reason. I dont mean to gatekeep but relics hold a title for a reason. Same as other top raid tiers in which afkers rpers need to pay or lie about paying to get their glam weapons because these weapon hold again the title of being rare and difficult to get.
EW relics just kinda tossed that name of being relics to the trash, might as well have been a craftable weapon
My only complaint about the relics is the fact you need to complete the Manderville questline to unlock them. I cannot stand Hildibrand as a character and every time I look at him I wish him nothing but eternal damnation in the Void.
Haha this is fair! It's certainly not for everybody
So whats next. Tomes for ultimate weapons?
The old relics were status symbols. They represented the result of all a players effort. If ultimate weapons represent skill then relic weapons represent commitment.
Now what? You see a mandeville weapon and say oh i bet that guy did his daily roulettes for a few days.
The second comment in the beginning represents a disappointingly large amount of the playerbase. They want to be rewarded for almost no effort.
Yeah for sure that's one thing that will probably stain the reputation if the relic stays the way it is. That said, most people might not care if they end up looking good
Much like everyone else, I like the Manderville relic quest(the color design for the various weapons is questionable though)and I am fine with a grind. I did enjoy Bozja since the fights there and in Zandor were challenging and fun. The one thing I don't want is an RNG grind(timeworn relic)it doesn't add to the overall relic or quest it's just annoying, lazy padding that only frustrates the player. If they keep the RNG out and running over 50 alliance raids then I'm goood.
Oh that’s EASY. There’s two (maybe even three for some people) factors:
1) there is no special grind involved in these relics. Just doing your dailies and weeklies will get you enough currency to get the necessary currency to buy the new weapons. Compare this to Shadowbringers and Stormblood where the were entire areas dedicated to the relics.
2) The designs of the glows are very uninspired. Most of them have a very similar design with the swirly red energy on a white weapon.
3) They are as good or even better than Savage weapons and only marginally worse than the next to impossible to get TOP weapons.
I don’t HATE them, as this has been the first time I’ve experienced doing endgame gearing at the tail end of an expac and I still have TONS of content I still haven’t touched. But for the guys who have been here for years this appears to be a very lacklustre experience.
Yep you sure nailed it! I like some of the glows but that's par for the course with any early stage relic honestly
People are just complaining to complain, pretty much all relics have steps like these where you just spend poetics and move on to the next. I think people forget this is only stage 2
Fact
Yeah, if anything we could be seeing a much smoother curve where the beginning of the relic is easy as it progressively gets harder later on.
What’s interesting to me was I restarted to play with the GF. I did some standard quests I would normally ignore to do MSQ and found a little quest chain I thoroughly enjoyed. A little story I didn’t know existed.
It’s simple: they are basically free… like, there is nothing special you have to do to get them other than doing the Manderville quest line. 1500 tomes per step and there are only 4 steps.
i dont get why you have to grind 2k hrs to get a cool thing when u can do it with less time and effort. Im VERY HAPPY with manderville farm. Do player want hard to get cool weapon? Go play ultimate, dont ruin the average player expearence forcing him to grind 2k hours cose not every one can play a videogame 8+ hrs a day
This relic chain just feels like a victory lap for us. I bet Dawntrail will go back to the old ways.
It sounds like they just didn't have time for something bigger but they've already talked about designing the next exploration zone so I'm confident that they will in Dawntrail!
Imagine having to do an annoying that side questline that started in ARR and got almost every expansion updates and take forever to complete so you can do relics
Suddenly next weapon tier grind would be inside the Eureka deep dungeon and savage criterion dungeon. 😂
they made this weapons set for people that like xiv but are also finally going regularly back to work after The Rona (tm) and like, that's good?
I don't understand why complain about it? You have 4 whole sets for which you have to GRIND A LOT so just one set once for people that have a life outside of the videogame is good in my opinion.
If anything, a part of the complain is probably from people who have the old stuff completed
Because some of them think grinding FATES for RNG drops followed by yet more grinding for light is what gives a relic its value. As someone who only farms relics for glam, I no longer believe anyone who grinded out all the ShB hot garbage relics has any idea what they're talking about. I view the Manderville weapons being both easier to obtain and far better looking as an apology from SE and I accept it for now.
The problem's that in the past the relic weapon and their exploration zones was content for players who DO have time to put into the questline. By making it glorified tome gear this expansion, that class of players has virtually no time sink this expansion besides the PvP malmstones, and PvP isn't for everyone.
But I think we can all agree that nobody was looking forward to grind 150 hours of ARR content for a step because there's no exploration zone.
Yeah it really is glorified tome gear XD
This shift really changed the demographic of the weapons
Maybe because it's because i'm not a hardcore player but I'm glad that I can get a Relic weapon now
I don't think you're seeing people switching sides between Eureka/Bozja exploration vs Manderville collection. I think what you're seeing is a whole new set of people complaining that it is (or is on longer) what they want.
I think there's another strong point that most people miss. These relic weapons do have a grind, a huge one even, but you don't notice it because you probably already completed it. That is completing the entire Manderville questline. Could you imagine being one of the players that never touched Hildibrand, doing all those quests kinda rushed, and after all that, still get a huge grind for the actual weapon? That would be brutal imo.
I think they have easy initial steps so players that want the weapon can finally do the Hildi Questline, and once they know everyone is on the same level, with everything up to date, they can finally start implementing grindy stages for the relic. Otherwise it would be too overwhelming for those players that just missed this piece of optional side content that they had no idea would be necessary prior to the announcement of the relics. (which is awesome and I don't know why they would not do the quests but I know people that didn't)
Yeah certainly for a lot of people, there's a notable grind involved in completely the storyline. It does kind of balance out the lack of grind for the relic themselves. It's honestly sorta easy to miss I bet but super worth!
Only ones I REALLY hated were the zodiac weapons.
I abandoned them the moment I got my first book; just no.
For the rest, I made 1 relic for what I considered my signature job for the expansion...
I'm sad about the "no grind" as a passive casual player, only because the relic doesn't feel special or earned at all. That's what makes relics special, even compared to savage raid weapons. Especially after going through the ARR Zodiac Hell to get Ragnarok. But I guess I'm generally not as up in arms or vocal about this distaste as I might be, because there's still a pretty nasty (in a good way) grind with the DoH and DoL relics, which only have three sets. ARR, ShB, and EW. And trust me, both Expert Crafting and Expert Gathering are no joke, even when going after the Lv.80 Skysteel tools on Lv.90 BiS gear.
My respect to anybody who has a Zodiac weapon for sure. The Manderville grind def doesn't hit the same or feel as rewarding. And yeah, I'm happy about the crafter/gather relics! Those are a great time. And yeah....expert crafting is scary
To hard people complain
To easy people still complain 😂
I'm just glad the Manderville relics aren't aneurysm inducing like ARR and SB
Yeah I don't know if I could handle an ARR relic but at the same time at least, doing one in steps seems a lot more approachable than doing the whole list of steps at once!
SE simply came to their senses. There's already a plentiful amount of relics with countless hours worth of grind available. If you're only concern is how much time you get to spend on a relic weapon then your life must be quite privileged by not having a job, allowing you to spend 16 hours a day on the game. Most of the people who play the game have a job and do not have the time for another excessively long relic grind. Thank God for 1500 tomes per step. Best relic steps they've ever made far as I'm concerned. The grind is finally gone.
I fall in the "too busy for those hefty grind" teams. Like, the only relic I ever really obtained was the Boja ones and that's because the steps weren't too bad in time consumption also I was lucky to have completed them before End Walker cause after that no 1 runs the big trials in Boja anymore, they just use it to farm exp 😢 These 1st steps for Manderville weapons are great 4 me.
Yeah I can certainly understand that! You should try Anima one day! If you don't spend poetics on other things, you can sorta passively prepare the Anima weapon overtime just by buying the turn ins with poetics
@@Sonicrida Oh I'll definitely do that, thanks for the info.
The amusing part of this is that: people get the chance to do whatever content they want to do in order to get the relic weapon.
And what do they do? GRIND the hell out of a single activity to get the tomestones! Then complain that there is not enough things to do.
Let's assume that the developers use something like bozja/eureka they would grind the shit out of it and STILL demand more content. There is never enough.
Personally, I like the tomestones: I do my roulettes, have fun with that and get one or two completed per week.
yeah I feel that. I think the bigger appeal is just having something special to do that isn't the old stuff tbh
i think this is fine, the only reason its so easy is because its tied to mandervil quest, making this weapon hella grindy wouldn't really work in the mandervil quest format because they are supposed to be light hearted and funny content, i think people just complain to complain.
people are just never happy, doomed if you do doomed if you dont
at this point i just want more expansions on the social aspect of the game more than combat related stuff
thats where player retention is people dont log in for the combat after they done a lot they log in to hang out with their friends, as far as ive seen at least
There's like 40 quests to complete before you can get your relic, it's not like you are not doing anything to get there
EW isnt done yet, and neither is the relic questline. For all we know the big traditional farming of crystals, fates, duties.... will still happen for its final stage.
I honestly enjoyed the Shadowbringers relic grind, though that's due in part to the fact that i came over from Destiny which used to be grindy. Making it easy isn't too bad in my eyes but it also takes away the satisfaction of finishing the relic weapon. Its like if they were to give players the Vex Mythoclast upon completing Vault of Glass in Destiny (which i enjoyed grinding for, though getting a god roll Fatebringer was the greatest feeling ever).
I hated Eureka years ago, but once I began to more thoroughly understand it, I grew to enjoy it, finished the Red Mage relic, and even got the Demi-Ozma mount (which is apparently one of the rare mounts).
TLDR: Destiny veteran=more enjoyment with a grind for the satisfaction of completing the grind. Its like serotonin for us
I haven't actually done Eureka yet but Bozja was one of my favorite parts of Shadowbringers. I thought I was alone in wishing there was an exploration zone like that in Endwalker. I think I'll find some groups for Eureka and go farm one of the weapons in there. Good vid, btw! Have a like and a sub!
Thank you so much! Glad you enjoyed it. And yeah, there are exploration zone lovers out there for sure!
I wanted to see the conclusion to the story they were going for with bozja.
But then the contract with what's his name yoshi-p's hero expired so they made a patch that included more information in the bozjan notes that was literally a "where are they now?" to retcon any future stuff. I hated it.
I started Eureka a few weeks ago after finishing the Bozja storyline, and I personally am not enjoying it. It's a beautiful area, but you can tell that they applied feedback from it when making Bozja.
I understand why a lot of people hate the constantly grinding of Bozja, but i honestly enjoyed doing Bozja story patches with new dungeon coming out.
I remember people bitching about ShB relics, and while I'd prefer more stuff like Bozja, I'm not bothered about the Manderville stuff. It's a nice little break.
Honestly, I remember doing the Heavensward relics, and I enjoyed it back then still. Even Eureka, but I felt Bozja was the perfect middle point.
Every time they start off a new relic quest the first couple steps are pretty easy, the suffering will begin soon.
I'll be honest- I've played since 2013 and I still find stuff to do. I can understand people being disappointed by the 2nd step but I also understand that others liking it. Myself- I'm slowly grinding older relics- so this is giving me more time to finish those out.
That's super cool to hear! The game offers so much. I was bored with crafting the first time I tried but fell in love with it later when I learned more about how to do it!
@Sonicrida Me- fishing- I'm starting to get into fishing and catching them all- now that is a test of patience and RNG
@@kisavalkyrie oh yeah that's on my radar 😅 I actually leveled my fisher through daily turn ins only haha and some ocean fishing
im definitely on the side that wants the process to be more grindy lol. Relic weapons were always the grindy part of the game. If you hate grinding, you dont get your rewards, and you can choose to stay in your comfort zone.
But then again, it's the first few stages, it's not certain that it will stay that way for the next stages.
And i can see relics is not the focus of this patch. We have sanctuary island, variant dungeons, and two ultimates this patch. An easy trade off
if anything, I'm more mad that they change the color palette moving from stage 1 to stage 2 lol. I was so mad that they made PLD sword and shield glow red, MNK gauntlets glow blue, and RPR scythe becomes white and blue lol.
Man people literally will find anything to complain about. Everyone hated the idea of days or weeks grinding for the relic, but when SE made it easier people still complains
I’d say agree with your statements however I wish there were a trade system for low drop rates ie an say your a raider how many extra tomes do you have that crowd up your inventory in an ex a weapon is 10 totems and savage 8 books say instead of grinding tomes we could grind each of the ew dungeons for say 3 totems or we could use old totems/ savage books and/or current ones if they’re truely going a HW relic direction this expansion the biggest thing mentioned multiple times was community engagement. And experiencing old raids/ trials wether synced or unsynced is great way to do that. Here’s some advice for those wanting to do old relics HW and SHB can be extremely trivialized once you clear it once. HW you can passively get all the mats via poetics over time then once and only painful part is the fate grind first step. After that it’s in sync 13 dungeons and lastly 19-21 Runs of A9S and 14 trials honestly if have all the it’s a 4hr grind max. For SHB just keep a weapon at each stage so the 6 quests stay open and do your dailies. I idle grinded both for a year just buy hw materials keeping my poetics from capping out and just doing stuff with friends got me most of the stuff for shb relics exception being fate grind at the start and timeworn artifacts. But a good recommendation leveling alts in bojza and potd and hoh while keeping all the quests open nets a significant amount of materials. (Note: my intention is to collect them all. This is not an amazing idea if someone only wants one to say three.) Great video over all and another reason is that everyone is playing many more classes than in past expansions. Example myself included in shb I was simply a dragoon and white mage. And now I play like almost all of them in casual content
I feel the current state of relic could also be SE trying to accommodate new JP audiences who would like to try FFXIV but do not wish to interact with other people and simply play it as a single player game. Who knows. While I can see why other players would like a grind to the relic weapons as it is also a way for people to make friends, but for me relic weapons are just another glam at the end of the day, or weapons that will get replace when higher ilevel weapon comes out when the next expansion drops. I guess each to their own :D
I'm surprised one of the biggest issues I've seen from people have wasn't mentioned at all: You need to complete the Hildibrand (I don't care if I spelled it wrong, I hate it anyway) quests to even access it. I HATE all of them. I hate the characters. The humor is trash. It's boring. It takes forever. It's tedious. And even if you skip all the cutscenes that only helps speed it up a bit, but doesn't make it better. I only did the minimum I needed to do to unlock certain things so I could get spells for Blue Mage, then I stopped. A simple solution to this would have just been to have it be it's own thing. Even if it involved those shitty characters and terrible 'humor', at least it would be short. Even I could deal with that if I skipped all of it to access the relics.
People who hate this relic weapon are the ones who never realized that MMO can be played solo too. And imagine people playing too late, look at Eureka and Bozja. If people dislike community, they will find difficulties to collect all of those requirements
as long as the weapons dont look "silly" like the Mandeville quests it's fine by me
Very respectable take tbh haha I was half expecting goofy weapons
In short, the answer is that people are dumb. Rather than having the mental fortitude to simply do as you please to get tomes, some folks HAVE to be told what to do and/or how to do it. Otherwise, they just can't reasonably function.
I like the manderville relics. I kinda thought they were a little too easy to get. Post Dawntrail, they got crazy easy to get.
Was so happy to hear the talk about the end, you talking about that this game has a lot more to offer, since it is pretty much true, I mean this game is 10 years old or so, there's a lot of old content that I feel like a lot of us ignore but could do. Aside from previous extreme/savage on synced runs, there's also the "Savage" raid in Bozjan that even rewards you with a mount, and there's a whole Discord server dedicated to making runs for it every week! Just like how there's a "savage alliance raid" in Eureka too :D
This game has so so much to offer, and yet I find that some of us just deny it and then say that there's content draught, when really there's so much you can do as long as you put your mind to it (especially for us newer players who started in ShB/EW), of course not everyone will be willing to dip their toes into this kind of stuff which is fine, because honestly, I am the same. After playing this game almost non-stop for a year, and being on my 2nd year on this game, I've been taking a heavy break, only really getting onine to raid with my static. And honestly, taking a break from this game has been quite healthy as well, it has made me appreciate other games and even XIV a lot more whenever I do come back to raiding ^^
FF14 players dont hate new relics, twitter players do. As savage raider i actually loved that i dont need to spend weeks killing mobs mindlessly, and can just buy it and focus on raids instead.
I'm in the same boat as I love the current relic quest. I got sick of the Bozja relic quest and almost didn't finish the 2nd relic. The way that I see it from my pov is that it gives the dev team a break, work on the updated graphics which they have said, or the many other things they need to update/fix. If the next step is just getting more tomes I'll be even more happy as well since it will give me time to play other games and watch other shows. They been working hard and not everything has to be like Bozja.
Yeah that's the big thing. They have a lot of things to work on with all of the new systems they've added as well. It's good to have a break sometimes
Well relics are not required content, if you want them you get them.
They aren't made for casual players, as a casual player has no actual need for a max ilvl relic.
There is no need to dumb the game down for the lowest common denominator, if they want a cool relic, they will grind it.
@PplCallMeGhost1 once again.
Optional content.
Most casual players do relics 2-3 expansions down the line if they dont want to do the grind when it is current, by next expansion they would have just been poetics.
'people don't want to run the same stuff over and over again'
Of course they don't, and that's why the relic zones were a good thing. We have been running the same dungeons and raids for a year and a half and they expect us to keep running them for another year and not get bored of them.
Square enix has the manpower to develop content, they acquired multiple game studios last year and need to start investing them into the longevity of xiv instead of pouring the xiv profits into other games.
If everyone is super, nobody is
Having a special weapon just doesn't feel special when all you need is some hunt trains.
Bozja was my favorite
I miss Bozja and still do it tbh. Excited that Dawntrail will try it again!
I love just tomes only relics, done all the other relics from the past to the present, EW is the most accessible thus far. And remember there are 19 combat jobs now, and probably more next expansion. Do you really want eureka levels of grind for a glamour piece? Nah I'm going to pass on that grind.
It probably depends a lot on how many weapons you want to go for.
I much prefer this system over the old ones. But some sort hybrid between this way and the new way would work well.
I want to start doing harder content again I've just become super anxious about doing it recently and I don't know why.
Why did you stop?
@@Sonicrida I got burnt out and never continued once I got back
I'm making my next video about hard content anxiety so I hope that it can help you! Always down to talk about it and to help people approach that stuff in my discord too!
@@Sonicrida I'll be sure to watch it when it comes out.
I hate it because it's nothing new, it just forces you to do old contents, I loved bozja and eureka, loved the fact you had to spend weeks there to get a reward, not just run a few roulette and tadam you have a "hard to get glowy weapon", only bad players are happy with manderville relics because they can finally get something..
If eureka/bozja was sooo bad, they can just do another exploration zone with less farming, less dependance on others, but still offer something new at least..
I'm in the camp of hating the grind it took for a relic, something that was more work than it was honestly worth for a now cosmetic piece of gear. I ignored the relics because it was just overwhelming with all the other things I still have left to do in the game. The complaints have the same air of folks that talk about how easy people have it nowadays; the complaint that it doesn't take that much work forgets that the team has made clear their goal to allow players a chance to take a break instead of dedicating, as you said, a month on an item that will be useless in a patch or two aside from taking up a glamour prism.
Also, I like to giggle at Island Sanctuary completionists too, because it reminds me of how people stockpiled and rushed through all of Animal Crossing, which I migrated to XIV from, during the pandemic to the point where no patch could come fast enough. If they make a XIV version of Nookazon, I'll high-five a cactus lol.
I will add that I deeply enjoy Eureka and the community aspect but the relic grind has been a toil that makes me feel sympathy for anyone that has a relic weapon, not amazement.
I say in the future Dawntrail and forward make 2 different relic sets
One for the tomb grind like Manderville than the other for the Bozja or Eureka like grind.
After having PTSD from Bojza relic (litteraly, i can't enter in that zone without wanting to quit the game and don't touch it for a week or so, also thanks to the haircut we could loot with a 0.5% chance or whatever on the queen raid..90 run, never got it bought it immediatly on the market, won more gils by just crafting an hour anyway)
i'm glad the first two phases are so easy to get. for the 90 relic.
However, getting stucked on the manderville quest is..problematic if you don't like them but you can always skip the cutscenes, wich is...heresy but still an option .
Heh yeah it's kinda funny to think about how much of a grind Bozja can be. I do love it especially for leveling though haha also +1 for the heresy comment XD