I agree with all you said. What I say is if you own a airplane and you want to use it for travel you need a Instrument rating. You will want to use your airplane and you probably will want to carry people. People have schedules and it takes very little to keep you on the ground without a Instrument rating. There will be a lot of pressure to get back, your passengers will want to get back, and this could lead to scud running. Scud running is lethal and having passengers will affect your Aeronautical Decision Making. We know weather mostly from what we see at airports what lies between airports many times can be anyone's guess. Again there will be the pressure to press on because it may get better. Maybe it does and you make it through but sooner or later that will catch up with you. We say that you always should have a out. A IFR rating can be that out. If you carry passengers it can be like herding cats and everything takes longer. This could lead to flights ending at night. Flying at night is a high risk environment and being able to rely on your instruments can make the risk acceptable. Plus, even scattered clouds can be lethal at night if you can't see them. You could end up flying with no idea where to go to avoid the clouds! I know that you may have a "personal minimum" of never flying at night which means you probably never train to fly at night. This is a High Risk/Low Frequency thing and many people who said that they would never fly at night ended up doing it and died. You will also be knowledgeable on how to use the system. There are so many pilots that are scared to use flight following because they don't know how to integrate into the system. Once you have your rating you will feel naked not using the system. And if you are enroute and the weather deteriorates getting a pop up IFR clearance is a no brainer because they are already talking to you and know where you are going. Finally, if you own your own plane, I would get my Commercial too. Both will decrease your insurance rates significantly. Once you have your own plane then the instruction is cheap! $65 a hour after all the other expenses like maintenance, hangers, insurance is almost nothing considering it's value. Besides when did we ever need a reason to fly our planes. When getting your instrument rating you can even fly with your instructor on days you would be grounded!
The only reason I ever wanted an IR was as a step to become a CFI. IMC pretty much doesn't exist in the high desert of California. I've never cancelled a single flight due to clouds or visibility. I've only altered my course due to a cloud once and it was only by a few degrees. That being said, I'm sure I'll become a more precise flyer after getting one. Now that I'm in Texas, I'm starting to understand more what people are talking about when they say "weather" and I think an instrument rating will become a lot more important.
"Trust" is an interesting perspective. I spent $8000 getting my SEL instrument rating. However, when it was done I could never "trust" the airplane, myself, the ATC system, or the weather reporting with my life and the lives of my loved ones. I made one real solo flight in real IMC and decided, never again. I realized that no matter how much knowledge I gained there were too many aspects of single engine IFR that were out of my control and that could get me, and my loved ones, killed. I think you are right about the "trust" perspective. I've never heard anyone describe it this way. Clearly there are those that can trust, and those that can't, when it comes to IFR.
Thank you so very much for sharing your experience 🙏. IMC, as you of course know, is not to be taken lightly. I was on a single pilot IFR flight about a year ago, and for what it is worth, I’m pretty proficient and current… but the approach to near minimums, it became just too much alone, and I went missed. A very real reminder of the respect we have to show to o IMC. I’m glad I got out of there. Thank you for sharing, and watching the video. 🙌 I respect your choice to decision
The one big takeaway I got from this (as a non-pilot) is ”the pros fly IFR”. Not everyone wants to be a career pilot but who doesn’t want to have an “insight” into being a career pilot. Think of golfers, what golfer doesn’t “want to play like the pros?” Great video Nathan!
100% agree! IR is the best, most practical/useful rating. I primarily use my IR when going into a new airport in marginal weather conditions. After having scrubbed so many flights when I was just a VFR pilot, IR tremendously improved the odds of being able to make the trip.
Yea, I remember flying in the late 80s early 90s without an instrument rating. I took the ground school, took the written test, and even did the training. But, I avoided taking the practical… this way when the weather looked bad, I couldn’t be talked into flying. I would just say, the weather is bad, we cannot go. During the time I flew without an instrument rating I was forced to go IMC several times. Yes, it can happen and you have little control over it when ATC sends a Boeing in your direction and they tell you to turn… but clouds are where they want you to turn… and they say turn or become a bug on the window of a Boeing… yea, you go IMC and report IMC.
For those private pilots that hesitate on the IFR rating knowing how hard it is to stay current, the low percentage of IFR pilots that are current, how likely you may want to go out by yourself and fly IMC, I will say it is still worth all the training (even if you do not take the practical test) because it will make you not only a safer VFR pilot, but you can also with that knowledge and training shoot the approach in visual conditions and use the airplane's avionics to do a straight in. I do it all the time, I use flight following and when handed off to the tower i just request the "Practice ____ approach for runway ___". If it is a non-towered airport, some pilots will have no idea what an ILS or RNAV is, so I just look for traffic and report 5 mile long final. This is something that my DPE recommended to do.
Even though all of my flying these days are VFR (hopefully I’ll upgrade my plane next year), having my IR certainly helps understanding the big picture. ATC, weather, precise flying, it all improved with my instrument rating
When I got my private certificate, I heard "it's a license to learn" a lot. Almost no one said that about the instrument rating. But I think it's even more of a license to learn than private. My instrument training was 99% in CAVU conditions under the hood. I passed my checkride with 0.3 actual IMC time. And that's because I happened to spend about 5 seconds in a cloud on 3 different flights. I knew how to fly under the hood. I knew how to shoot an approach. I knew how to manage my navigation aids. But I didn't know anything about flying in real IMC conditions. It wasn't until I flew right seat with some friends who had a lot more real world IFR experience than me that I started to get an idea of how to comfortably file an IFR plan in less than VFR conditions. What would you recommend instrument students do to learn more than just how to fly under the hood and shoot an approach?
It’s a great point you bring up. So much training is done under the foggles which is nice and all, but there is no substitute for actual IMC, like you said. If someone is looking to get an instrument rating, I’d suggest finding a CFI-I that will get excited when it’s cloudy out. They can also help facilitate with ATC, staying in a layer for much longer for the experience. I don’t care who you are, everyone gets disoriented in the clouds at some point 💯 Thanks for the well thought out feedback 👍👍
Sorry, Nathan, but you are wrong. And you probably know it... An instrument rating is NOT making your flying safer; it's quite the opposite!! Unless you fly at least twenty hours per month and half of it in instrument meteo conditions, your skills to fly IFR are NOT going to improve, at all. It's like those "experienced" VFR private pilots with 3'000 hours total time (after forty years of flying to the same five or ten familiar airports). Most instrument rated private pilots rely on their flimsy autopilot system and their iPad... Many experienced VFR jockeys killed their families or friends after they obtained an FAA paper with "instrument rating" on it. My five cents as an instructor / check airman and after more than 20'000 hours of flying (from P-51 to 747-8 and from hang gliders to helicopters): Unless you seriously intend and practice to become very proficient in manually flying your single or twin in IMC and in turbulence, stay away from an instrument rating. If your autopilot disconnects in bad weather ( and it will) ... only you know how proficient you are flying the beast, deal with a checklist and communicate wit ATC, at the same time. Any doubts? Keep flying VFR and invest some time in analyzing the weather correctly. And say NO to your friends and family, if the weather is questionnable. Anybody can get an instrument rating, but only about ten percent of private jockeys can safely fly IFR or / and at night. An instrument rating gives you the wrong feeling of trust. An instrument rating pushes you into bad weather. I have read and studied hundreds of accident reports; instrument rated private pilots are the top killers. Sorry to have a different opinion than Nathan. The last couple of minutes of his clip are correct, btw. He should have started with the end. It's smarter to be a good VFR pilot than a lousy and nervous instrument flyer... .
I pretty much agree with you. IMO most nonprofessional pilot do not have the time, money, or commitment to truly stay proficient. I, too, believe they rely on autopilots and Ipads as if these are adequate to insure the safety of their loved ones. This kind of blind faith (trust) just boggles my mind when you consider failure equals death, and not just pulling over on the side of the road. Flying 6 approaches under the hood every 6 months will in no way keep you proficient. And by proficient I mean hand flying in solid IMC, with turbulence, while experiencing a system failure. That is the minimum proficiency required. The pilots that really aggravate me are the ones who say, "I only fly light IFR" or "I only file IFR to get above a marine layer". With this mind set they think that the bare minimum in currency and proficiency is all they need. In fact, they are setting themselves up to be murderer's. THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS "JUST FLYING LIGHT IFR". If you are not fully capable of flying in solid IMC and turbulence while experiencing a systems failure, you shouldn't be filing IFR. A kind young lady I knew trusted an asshole who thought the minimum IFR currency was all he needed. He murdered her, and himself, on the side of a low hill in Petaluma, California a number of years ago. My hatred for that asshole has not diminished with the years.
Trying to use an airplane for reliable, long-distance travel while not possessing an instrument rating and being current and proficient in IMC flying is more akin to planning a long distance car trip with four bald tires and no credit than one might think.
I agree with all you said. What I say is if you own a airplane and you want to use it for travel you need a Instrument rating. You will want to use your airplane and you probably will want to carry people. People have schedules and it takes very little to keep you on the ground without a Instrument rating. There will be a lot of pressure to get back, your passengers will want to get back, and this could lead to scud running. Scud running is lethal and having passengers will affect your Aeronautical Decision Making. We know weather mostly from what we see at airports what lies between airports many times can be anyone's guess. Again there will be the pressure to press on because it may get better. Maybe it does and you make it through but sooner or later that will catch up with you.
We say that you always should have a out. A IFR rating can be that out. If you carry passengers it can be like herding cats and everything takes longer. This could lead to flights ending at night. Flying at night is a high risk environment and being able to rely on your instruments can make the risk acceptable. Plus, even scattered clouds can be lethal at night if you can't see them. You could end up flying with no idea where to go to avoid the clouds! I know that you may have a "personal minimum" of never flying at night which means you probably never train to fly at night. This is a High Risk/Low Frequency thing and many people who said that they would never fly at night ended up doing it and died.
You will also be knowledgeable on how to use the system. There are so many pilots that are scared to use flight following because they don't know how to integrate into the system. Once you have your rating you will feel naked not using the system. And if you are enroute and the weather deteriorates getting a pop up IFR clearance is a no brainer because they are already talking to you and know where you are going.
Finally, if you own your own plane, I would get my Commercial too. Both will decrease your insurance rates significantly. Once you have your own plane then the instruction is cheap! $65 a hour after all the other expenses like maintenance, hangers, insurance is almost nothing considering it's value. Besides when did we ever need a reason to fly our planes. When getting your instrument rating you can even fly with your instructor on days you would be grounded!
Excellent video, great points and very informative! Great job!
The only reason I ever wanted an IR was as a step to become a CFI. IMC pretty much doesn't exist in the high desert of California. I've never cancelled a single flight due to clouds or visibility. I've only altered my course due to a cloud once and it was only by a few degrees. That being said, I'm sure I'll become a more precise flyer after getting one. Now that I'm in Texas, I'm starting to understand more what people are talking about when they say "weather" and I think an instrument rating will become a lot more important.
"Trust" is an interesting perspective. I spent $8000 getting my SEL instrument rating. However, when it was done I could never "trust" the airplane, myself, the ATC system, or the weather reporting with my life and the lives of my loved ones.
I made one real solo flight in real IMC and decided, never again. I realized that no matter how much knowledge I gained there were too many aspects of single engine IFR that were out of my control and that could get me, and my loved ones, killed.
I think you are right about the "trust" perspective. I've never heard anyone describe it this way. Clearly there are those that can trust, and those that can't, when it comes to IFR.
Thank you so very much for sharing your experience 🙏. IMC, as you of course know, is not to be taken lightly.
I was on a single pilot IFR flight about a year ago, and for what it is worth, I’m pretty proficient and current… but the approach to near minimums, it became just too much alone, and I went missed. A very real reminder of the respect we have to show to o IMC. I’m glad I got out of there.
Thank you for sharing, and watching the video. 🙌
I respect your choice to decision
This is not an unreasonable approach
You mentioned trust. It is also about trusting your instruments😃
I can’t believe I forgot to say that! Thanks for the comment and for watching.
The one big takeaway I got from this (as a non-pilot) is ”the pros fly IFR”. Not everyone wants to be a career pilot but who doesn’t want to have an “insight” into being a career pilot. Think of golfers, what golfer doesn’t “want to play like the pros?” Great video Nathan!
Thanks a bunch Peter!
That is a really awesome perspective...trust. I never thought of IFR that way, but you are exactly right. Another great video.
Thank you, always appreciate your thoughts … you have more real world IFR flying than 95% of the people I know. 👊👊
100% agree! IR is the best, most practical/useful rating. I primarily use my IR when going into a new airport in marginal weather conditions. After having scrubbed so many flights when I was just a VFR pilot, IR tremendously improved the odds of being able to make the trip.
Your wonderful filmed flights with the family are proof enough how valuable IFR can be. ✅Looking forward to flying with you soon!
Another awesome video, Nathan! There is nothing to add - great work.
Yea, I remember flying in the late 80s early 90s without an instrument rating.
I took the ground school, took the written test, and even did the training.
But, I avoided taking the practical… this way when the weather looked bad, I couldn’t be talked into flying.
I would just say, the weather is bad, we cannot go.
During the time I flew without an instrument rating I was forced to go IMC several times.
Yes, it can happen and you have little control over it when ATC sends a Boeing in your direction and they tell you to turn… but clouds are where they want you to turn… and they say turn or become a bug on the window of a Boeing… yea, you go IMC and report IMC.
Awesome Nathan! Spot on my friend!
Thanks a bunch Brian, best CFI-I I know!
@@NathanBallardSaferFlying Thanks Buddy! So are you!!!!
For those private pilots that hesitate on the IFR rating knowing how hard it is to stay current, the low percentage of IFR pilots that are current, how likely you may want to go out by yourself and fly IMC, I will say it is still worth all the training (even if you do not take the practical test) because it will make you not only a safer VFR pilot, but you can also with that knowledge and training shoot the approach in visual conditions and use the airplane's avionics to do a straight in. I do it all the time, I use flight following and when handed off to the tower i just request the "Practice ____ approach for runway ___". If it is a non-towered airport, some pilots will have no idea what an ILS or RNAV is, so I just look for traffic and report 5 mile long final. This is something that my DPE recommended to do.
"tools for the toolbox" are always great to have when you need them.
Great video. Spot on.
Even though all of my flying these days are VFR (hopefully I’ll upgrade my plane next year), having my IR certainly helps understanding the big picture. ATC, weather, precise flying, it all improved with my instrument rating
Appreciate the support and feedback TBP. Looking forward to seeing those plane upgrades🦡
💯 agree with everything about this.
You need the instrument rating as a safety precaution, but using well in a single engine airplane in Florida can be difficult.
When I got my private certificate, I heard "it's a license to learn" a lot. Almost no one said that about the instrument rating. But I think it's even more of a license to learn than private.
My instrument training was 99% in CAVU conditions under the hood. I passed my checkride with 0.3 actual IMC time. And that's because I happened to spend about 5 seconds in a cloud on 3 different flights. I knew how to fly under the hood. I knew how to shoot an approach. I knew how to manage my navigation aids. But I didn't know anything about flying in real IMC conditions.
It wasn't until I flew right seat with some friends who had a lot more real world IFR experience than me that I started to get an idea of how to comfortably file an IFR plan in less than VFR conditions.
What would you recommend instrument students do to learn more than just how to fly under the hood and shoot an approach?
It’s a great point you bring up. So much training is done under the foggles which is nice and all, but there is no substitute for actual IMC, like you said. If someone is looking to get an instrument rating, I’d suggest finding a CFI-I that will get excited when it’s cloudy out. They can also help facilitate with ATC, staying in a layer for much longer for the experience. I don’t care who you are, everyone gets disoriented in the clouds at some point 💯 Thanks for the well thought out feedback 👍👍
Sorry, Nathan, but you are wrong. And you probably know it...
An instrument rating is NOT making your flying safer; it's quite the opposite!!
Unless you fly at least twenty hours per month and half of it in instrument meteo conditions, your skills to fly IFR are NOT going to improve, at all. It's like those "experienced" VFR private pilots with 3'000 hours total time (after forty years of flying to the same five or ten familiar airports).
Most instrument rated private pilots rely on their flimsy autopilot system and their iPad... Many experienced VFR jockeys killed their families or friends after they obtained an FAA paper with "instrument rating" on it.
My five cents as an instructor / check airman and after more than 20'000 hours of flying (from P-51 to 747-8 and from hang gliders to helicopters): Unless you seriously intend and practice to become very proficient in manually flying your single or twin in IMC and in turbulence, stay away from an instrument rating. If your autopilot disconnects in bad weather ( and it will) ... only you know how proficient you are flying the beast, deal with a checklist and communicate wit ATC, at the same time. Any doubts?
Keep flying VFR and invest some time in analyzing the weather correctly. And say NO to your friends and family, if the weather is questionnable.
Anybody can get an instrument rating, but only about ten percent of private jockeys can safely fly IFR or / and at night.
An instrument rating gives you the wrong feeling of trust. An instrument rating pushes you into bad weather. I have read and studied hundreds of accident reports; instrument rated private pilots are the top killers.
Sorry to have a different opinion than Nathan.
The last couple of minutes of his clip are correct, btw.
He should have started with the end.
It's smarter to be a good VFR pilot than a lousy and nervous instrument flyer...
.
I pretty much agree with you. IMO most nonprofessional pilot do not have the time, money, or commitment to truly stay proficient. I, too, believe they rely on autopilots and Ipads as if these are adequate to insure the safety of their loved ones. This kind of blind faith (trust) just boggles my mind when you consider failure equals death, and not just pulling over on the side of the road. Flying 6 approaches under the hood every 6 months will in no way keep you proficient. And by proficient I mean hand flying in solid IMC, with turbulence, while experiencing a system failure. That is the minimum proficiency required.
The pilots that really aggravate me are the ones who say, "I only fly light IFR" or "I only file IFR to get above a marine layer". With this mind set they think that the bare minimum in currency and proficiency is all they need.
In fact, they are setting themselves up to be murderer's. THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS "JUST FLYING LIGHT IFR". If you are not fully capable of flying in solid IMC and turbulence while experiencing a systems failure, you shouldn't be filing IFR.
A kind young lady I knew trusted an asshole who thought the minimum IFR currency was all he needed. He murdered her, and himself, on the side of a low hill in Petaluma, California a number of years ago. My hatred for that asshole has not diminished with the years.
Well said….agree 100%👍
Trying to use an airplane for reliable, long-distance travel while not possessing an instrument rating and being current and proficient in IMC flying is more akin to planning a long distance car trip with four bald tires and no credit than one might think.
Getting an IFR rating will definitely make you a safer and better pilot...
Title should be,” WHY I need an instrument rating”. We all have different needs/ missions. I do NOT need one,thanks.
Doesn’t hurt though. If you don’t mind, could you explain why you are so adamantly against yourself getting rated?
@@melxdanread the post from Renato.