I haven't read it but the first thing that comes to mind while watching you video is why Power Girl actually "Power Girl" here compared to her own series? She seems way more in line just to make that juxtaposition with Super Girl but also shows that the author actually understands her character? maybe thats just me 🤔
I did. I appreciate Supergirl with her feelings. I like when she's "angry" (didn't enjoy the King interpretation though.) What made me happiest was that they didn't lean on her & Powergirl having a strained relationship. But my goodness, I have no interest in Powergirl.
As a long time Supergirl fan it was just okay aka meh. I feel like I've seen this story rethreaded so many times before in different forms so it would have been nice to see something different. Plus if you read any of those Action Comics backups or the Power Girl book it's just really jarring when you juxtapose those stories with this one.
I agree. I think a mentor/mentee relationship would really suit the characters. PG is just an older version of Kara from the multiverse right? If anything, she should be amazed by how cool she can become. Maybe even have a story of PG telling Kara a bunch of life lessons she wish she had heard growing up (heck if DC’s really adamant about Kara/PG’s defining character struggle be an inferiority complex, let the 2 of them have a story where they’re boosting each other up since they each have a different perspective on where each of them is in life).
As a woman with large brests, I don't love that their solution to her "oversexualization" was to change her body. It lowkey made me feel like there was something wrong and dirty about MY body, in their eyes at least, because obviously if you are large chested you're going to look like you're in a porn movie no matter what 🙄
Powergirl was always "Come for the boobs, stay for the character," I picked one of her first books back in the 80's because I was a teen and couldn't buy playboys. But I liked the fact that she was different from Supergirl, and I've stuck with the character. I have not been a big fan of the current version in her own series. Paige sucks as a name. I think they may have wanted to move away from "Karen" because of the implications of that name, but I wish they had addressed in story and left her as Karen. "My name is Karen, I'm not a Karen, though I still need to speak to your manager."
I completely agree with your opinion on Power Girl's appearance. Her big bosom was part of her look, as silly as that sounds, and you could tell a lot about her personality by the fact that she rocked the boob window. I would even argue that it forced artists to draw her looking confident because it would be really hard to draw a demure person with so much...ahem...gifting. Also, Brad Bird was wrong. Capes are better than jackets, screw Edna Mode.
I agree with you on the Powergirl bosom debate. Defending the boob window isn't saying all comic book women should dress like that, it's what makes Powergirl stand out from all the other ones. Obviously we want variety when it comes to characters and costumes, so I like it when Powergirl stands out, as opposed to seeing every character drawn with the exact same proportions. And you're right, her confidence was a huge part of the appeal of her character.
They're too different it wouldn't be right if they ever got along they have to clash Robins usually have the same powers were talking about a Magical Being vs an Alien
@@travishiltz4750 I mean Jason has pretty effectively reentered into the bat family proper. At this moment in time they do all kinda have beef with each other, but they can still work off of each other in a way that compliments each one as an individual. Except for Tim. Most writers still do not know what to do with poor Tim.
@@bluesnake4626 The Bat family gets along because they all agree they need to keep an eye on Jason and Damian. On any given day, those two are five minutes away from being super villains. But, I do agree with you, they need to treat Tim better. His new series, with him being more of a detective is a good move. Shame the art is so ugly.
Speaking of Supergirl and Power Girl's relationship, it's pretty funny that, as Amanda Conner showed in a sketch, Kara is REALLY jealous of her Earth Two counterpart's much bigger "plot." It is not only hilarious af, but also gives Kara an adorable touch of femininity that makes her more human.
But it goes against everything that's been established in their dynamic and the dialog in their battles Power Gurl was only fighting Kara out of not knowing who she is and wanting to take it out on somebody and Supergirl hated her for that like held a grudge The fact that they use what you're talking about is not coherent with what's been going on with what's been happeningeith with them
Back in the Bronze Age, when Power Girl was first introduced, there was never any similarities in the personalities of Supergirl and Power Girl. Other than the desire to live up to Superman's standards they were completely different characters. Side note: Has there ever been like am elseworlds story or something like that where Kara arrived on earth at the same time as Kal-El? It could make an awesome story with her raising him on the run from the government or someone.
There's Gotham City Garage where Kara finds the baby Kal and is going to raise him. But that's basically the epilogue of the series so we don;t get to see what her raising him looks like
Something similar to this happens with Dark Knights of Steel. There Jor-El and Lara were able to join Kal and landed on the same planet and butterfly effects out from there.
I just find the dynamic so bizarre. We start out back in Action with Power Girl having beef with Supergirl and Supergirl being baffled by it, and then Power Girl seemingly working through what her issues were. Then here we have Supergirl having beef with Power Girl and Power Girl being baffled by it. And it's especially odd because it really came across as Supergirl *deciding* to have beef with Power Girl just because it seemed like she should.
You hit the nail on the head, i think. PG & SG are different characters. Even if they are meant to be sort of the same person they are at different stages of that life - Classic Karen (Paige?) is older, confident, mature - though sometimes brash, and is someone who fully embraces her physicality and the effect it has on others. Kara is young, often insecure, often angry but also sweet and empathetic. This blurring of the lines between the two feels like deliberate executive meddling.
I’m 43 years old and just now learned that some people think Power Girl is redundant because of Supergirl,or vice versa. I’ve always just thought they filled their own niches. This beginning with people on social media saying they’re “twinimes” or whatever just seems forced to me,since I don’t even think of them as looking similar.
I feel like it is completely possible to have both Supergirl and Powergirl. To me I feel like they would fit in well with an older sister younger sister dynamic. They both have similar pasts and even technically the same parents. But they ultimately still faced different situations throughout their lives have had different reactions, just like siblings do. You could have a few issues where Supergirl fights against it much like this, but learns to accept Powergirl as something like a sister. Someone who they both can rely on, who knows things about their family and history that only they can share. But also can recognize that they are different people who bring different things not only to the Super-family, but to their own relationship. Powergirl as a more mature and self confident figure can help Supergirl explore and learn how to be confident and secure in her own way. And in that same vain you can take a little bit of the plot of Powergirl's current series. Powergirl can be confident in who she is as a person and as a hero, but still feel disconnected from the super family. Supergirl then can be Powergirl's bridge to the Superfamily as her first step to feeling like she has a family on this earth. I feel like their is so much potential for some cute interactions with the two of them just they just get a chance to vibe with each other and even learn to get on each other's nerves in just the right way that only a sibling can. Just let them acknowledge each other as individuals, but also as close family that have a connection beyond the whole of the superfamily.
ACK! You missed mentioning the most direct 'we're really the same person' reveal! The 9 panel cupcake thing was a set up - to show some quirk that's uniquely Supergirl's - tearing a cupcake in half then smooshing it onto the frosting of a second cupcake... which Power Girl then ALSO does later on page 38 right under the laughing panel you show. This basically says 'they're WAY more alike even down to their subconscious quirks'. Also, yeah, the 'destiny' thing is really awful. It suggests neither of them have real agency - this is how things HAVE to be.
This is the dynamic I wanted back! I would have loved to see PG all sassy and bombastic all of the time, while trying to make her space in the Superfam. Her being 10 years older than Supergirl always gave her "cooler, older cousin" vibes to me. And I'm sorry it's not in her own series.
Also regarding Powergirl’s larger assets, there’s a commentary there that I’m not really fond of, that people who are well endowed, must downplay that to be taken seriously! Like being busty isn’t a choice any more than not being is! So to make it seem like you need to change that to be taken more seriously isn’t a great look for them either! Like no one struggles to see Nightwing as a fully fledged character with complex emotions, and interesting perspectives! And have you seen the cheesecake on that man?! And I’m talking less about fans, and more DC editorial and staff! I don’t know, it seems like in the pursuit of having her be taken seriously, the almost undermined it inadvertently… I say this as someone who has many busty friends, who this is a real thing for them, they can’t wear something that another person would wear, for fear of it looking like they are trying to be more sexual, or anything to do with a dress code, like it’s a weird thing that we haven’t moved past this idea that big boobs are inherently sexual when they aren’t, they can be, and if that’s what the person, or in this case character/writer is going for that’s fine! But they don’t have to be. And you don’t need to bind them up to be taken seriously, and you can have them without that being the whole point! And I think that’s the thing DC should focus on that PG is a badass character who happens to be well endowed! The same way they treat Nightwing as a multifaceted character even though he is insanely cheesecaked up!!!!!!! The whole Powergirl series seems to be an solution looking for a problem, and/or DC projection what they think people see on these characters (Supergirl and Powergirl)
To me, while the special wasn't bad, it did feel kinda forgettable,like in a " that sure was a comic i read" kinda way.Side note, I'm kinda surprised that they reduced Powergirl's bust size, considering that most of the internet loves thicc women at the moment.
It's a shame how this book has to contend with the Power Girl book. I do really like this book. Kara and Karen feel on point, good art, and feels well connected to the other Super titles rn(Power Girl aside). I'd say I'd like to see more of this as a mini but with Power Girl already doing this it'd feel redundant. I guess the simple fix would be to write Power Girl accurately. I personally didn't feel the last few panels drops their individuality.
I want a Mariko Tamaki-written Cassandra Cain series. She obviously has a knack and love for the character (per her Tec run, OBD: Two-Face #1, and the one-shot Cass story for AAPI).
That was one of the many great things about the Pre-crisis stories...having them on separate earths made that argument regarding any level of redundancy between them no -existent. There were so many counterparts of other characters that it almost felt wrong to NOT have a Supergirl analog on Earth-2. And making her so different from her Earth one counterpart really gave a good sense that she was her own character rather than just another doppelganger like Batman, or Superman, or Wonder Woman. From what I have seen in these more recent depictions...it's almost like they are working towards some contrived story line where we find out that they are actually half of a single being and that, in the same way they are now more physically similar (bye bye booswhams, OY...what am I 12) that they will make their personalities so identical that, at some point not only do we find out they are the same person, just split into two parts, but that they will have some reason they have to be re-merged into a single being, either one, or both of them will die if they don't, or their existence is causing such a cosmic dysfunction that if they aren't re-merged back into a single being it could destroy the universe; and we all know DC DOES love a good (or more accurately BAD) universe destroying event. OF course now....IF they were to use that to reset the multiverse back to it's original pre-crisis mode I could get behind that, but that would be the ONLY way. Mind you this is just all my mind going off on it's tangents. So to clarify, no I really don't like the way they are going with these two characters and frankly I can't see any real benefit to what they are doing. I realize I'm not privy to the long range plans they have, but they way things are now...not so much.
Supergirl and Powergirl have been distinct for decades, way back to the 70s. I can remember reading some of Powergirl's pre-Crisis appearances, and recognizing that she was much more distinct from Supergirl than the Earth 2 Superman or Batman were from their Earth 1 counterparts. It was more like the differences between the Flashes and Green Lanterns.
They always seemed so different to me that whenever they did meet up, it was the irony of their similar backstory yet still being so different that stood out. Their portrayals here are fine. It's Power Girl's portrayal in her own series that feels off.
I think it would be a better idea like you said, to have them split. Powergirl hangs out with Jsa, supergirl, with the the super family. This way, th3y can have great stories... seperately. Then again though, powergirl might feel left out if she isnt with the supr family.
Great video, Sasha! I think the traditional differences between Supergirl and Power Girl is one of the best uses of the parallel earths concept. It shows the “same” character can have similar paths with different outcomes.
My take is that some new intern at D.C. mixed both PowerGirl and SuperGirl scripts and D.C. just ran with it instead of changing anything hoping that nobody would notice....
18:42 I totally agree with the concept that "there will always be something to gaze at." I feel like it's more about controlling the gaze rather than "getting rid of it".
This special should’ve been about how Kara Zor-El felt redundant as well as us learning about her entire history and continuity from her pre-Crisis appearance in 1959 to her death in 1985 to her return in 2004 to her living the best life right now. Also, this special should’ve been about Supergirl and Power Girl comparing notes on why and how they are different and that they remember meeting each other in a 1981 Wonder Woman storyline titled Judgement in Infinity. Also, Supergirl sprinting is a reference to an issue of Adventure comics from the late 1960s or early 1970s. Also, she should’ve talked to the Superman Family about how she’s second fiddle or that she’s redundant.
I don't really read supergirl and don't think I've ever read a pure powergirl book but I super enjoy the way you break their stories and histories down and even get me to think about them in a completely different way than I would ever have on my own. Great channel and love you sharing your takes!
17:49 As someone who grew up as a busty girl ngl, powergirl being busty and the way she handled it in Amanda Conner's run really helped me deal with my own growth and the attention it recieved so seeing her no longer very busty makes me quite sad
I just thought they meant that it was their destiny to be friends or to work together not to be the same person. As far as I'm concerned the Power Girl series might as well be happening in a different universe.
Now this is gonna sound crazy but I always think of Power Girl as having both Superman and Batman traits. The sometimes snarky and sarcastic feel of some Batman portrayals while having the strength n bravery of Superman. Whereas Supergirl to me is Superman and Wonder Woman, the striving for best and determination (which can be a flaw when excessive) of Diana but also the do gooder nature and justice focus Clark is known for. Love Karen Power Girl probably developed bias since she appeared in the Harley comic n I loved that story. 😅
Bring back the big boobed Power Girl DC. Give her her confidence back. Let Supergirl be the unsure one. It fits her better. Also, am I the only one who’s curious as to how Kara affords that apartment? Like pre-new 52 she sold tech to Batman so she could buy a place to live. But I’m curious as to how she does it in the dawn of the dcu.
JSA also seems to be using a more classic depiction of Power Girl. The editors need to at least get on the same page about how they want to depict her. Meh, maybe the Power Girl series will be pushed out of canon.
Feels like they want Superman books to replicate the superhero family setup that's been so popular with the Flash Family and Bat Family, hence all Super characters becoming a lot more tightly knit, even ones like Power Girl who were usually better served being off doing something different.
Was I the only one distracted for most of this video by the cuff of Sasha's left sleeve being turned up while the right sleeve was not? Once I noticed I kept watching it thinking "She's going to notice this, remark on it, fix it, and continue - just like the falling poster behind her." But that never happened.
Just wanted to say i read SuperGirl: Woman of Tomorrow from one of your SG videos and that was an exceptional bit of comic, even /without/ me actually being much of a SG fan at all. Just goes to show what a strong little story it was for the 8 or whatever issues it ran.
This was a good Supergirl story. I agree SG and PG shoul be kept further apart. Powergirl to me is a JSA character and only an auxiliary member of the super fam. Like she respects and gets along with them but she's spending her time running the JSA and giving Ted Grant the business. She's the veteran even compared to Superman since she was on Earth-2 for so long. To see her as a fish out of water rookie is disappointing to say the least.
If I met my alternate universe version of myself I would spend so much time asking questions. "Did this happen to you?", "Do you remember this?", "Did you have this?".
I dont understand how and why writers are having so much trouble separating Kara and Karen and making them coexiste. The two have one common point of history but from there have very different lives, it feels like somebody in the ranks doesn't actually care about the past and wont bother looking into it. Ive gotten plenty of ideas from looking into a characters contanuity for fan fiction ideas, one of witch my friends love and solved the Kara/Karen problem; just make them sisters!! Give them the vibe of Estranged Sisters in main cannon and have the conflict be about how they dont know how to connect or if they even want to! That could work and be a fun new angle go for!
I enjoy the fact that Supergirl and Power Girl are having identity crisis due to each's past and the fact they are sharing the same universe. I wish DC would do more of this.
Sasha, as a long time Supergirl fan I didn't enjoy this. The whole 'unsure' Supergirl thing has been done to death and frankly needs to stop. I was not a fan of Tom King's WoT and guess it's good it got people interested in the character, but frankly I don't think it was a good characterization of Supergirl. Naturally, she shouldn't just be the same as she was in the Silver Age but like, too many runs seem to just either go with the anger/angst stuff with her, or unsure of herself, and like she never seems held as a candidate for well the legacy of the Super Family. Which something that kind of irks me. Power Girl I agree should be kept with her more confident persona that most comic fans know. I think you can do stuff with her and Supergirl, but they do need to be kept distinct from one another. The idea of them as kind of having a sister dynamic works. They may both be 'Kara' from their respective origins, but they are individuals with their own experiences and personalities. I don't think any of the recent PG stuff has gotten the character right, and yeah seems like the writer especially from her new series is trying to make her a 'Supergirl Lite' somehow (especially with the Daily Planet job). Nor did I like this special as it didn't seem to be well revealing anything new about Kara and her issues with PG felt very forced. Also don't understand where her not being able to recall detail about Krypton comes from. Supergirl has been WAY better handled in her World's Finest appearances of late. Having good characterization, moments, and being funny. Her 'orphanage' crack at Superman in one issue being priceless plus the fun of her bad date with Dick, but showing her being quite mature and wise with everything. Also enjoyed her being close with Clark and able to talk about it with him in that issue. Anyway, just one Supergirl fan's thoughts here. Keep up your amazing work Sasha, and thanks for covering my favorite characters like Supergirl and PG :)
I actually wouldn't say that the "shared destiny" thing is such a problem. To me it makes sense. There like two similar marbles set out into the world both trying to hit the target, but taking different ways. That doesn't mean they're the same. They just work towards the same thing. As lots of superheroes do
Honestly it’s way better than the Powergirl stuff but I feel the supergirl special was just a problem I have with supergirl as a whole… writers obsessing over her obsessing over others. It’s not Superman, that’s good, but damn it feels like writers can’t handle the super family vs other families.
I’m from the future. James Gunn doesn’t even make a Supergirl movie. Just 7 Oscar Winning Condiment King movies and 1 middling Captain Carrot movie with an awkward sex scene and too much violence.
Long story short, they either should’ve done two things keep power girl on earth two or just kill her off. I always felt that super girl should have evolved into becoming Powergirl. Like how Dick became Nightwing.
3:18 Its was pretty insane to see Supergirl being turned into an angry Red Lantern. I bet Jimmy Olsen said while watching her: "I knew that I would regret leaving her for Karen" 😢
thank you for bring up the fact that a lot of comics (esp. today) are adult fantasy, as in fantasizing, not necessarily realistic or gritty realism at all, or even a reality/sociological mandated representation of society .
To fix the Supergirl Special, I would have Kara Zor-El recap her entire life from being born in Argo City over a decade after Krypton’s destruction to her arriving on Earth and meeting her cousin Superman and taking on the identity of Linda Lee in 1959 (or 36 years before Dawn of DC) to her meeting the Original Legion of Super-Heroes in 1960 (or 35 years before Dawn of DC) to her getting adopted by Fred and Edna Danvers and revealing her existence to the world in 1962 (or 33 years before Dawn of DC) to her going to college in 1964 (or 33 years before Dawn of DC) to going to different cities - San Francisco, New Athens, NYC, and Chicago - from 1969 to 1985 (or 32 to 26 years before Dawn of DC) to her death and sacrifice in 1985 (or 26 years before Dawn of DC) to her resurrection and graduation as the second Superwoman in 2004 (or 13 years before Dawn of DC) to her resuming her Linda Lee Danvers identity since 2005 (or 12 years before Dawn of DC) to her staying in Metropolis, NYC, and National City since 2007 (or 11 years before Dawn of DC) to her living the great life and spending time with the Superman Family by now. While thinking about her years, she would recall her cousin wanting her to live a great life on Earth as well as him helping her deal with the loss of Argo City, which is similar to how he lost Krypton as an infant. She would also recall meeting her pre-Crisis Earth-Two self-named Power Girl (or Power Woman since the first Crisis in 1985) during the Judgement in Infinity storyline in 1981. There, they would talk about how similar and different they are and they hope that they’ll meet each other again soon. She would even meet legacy versions of herself (Matrix, Linda Danvers, and Cir-El) and help them deal with their problems (I.e. Matrix with her becoming the latest Earth-born Angel, Linda Danvers finding her daughter Ariella in the 853rd Century and becoming that era’s Flamebird, and Cir-El being remembered for her sacrifice). By now, after this, Kara would decide to resume her Linda Lee Danvers identity, since it’s been so long since she had one. She decided that she’d stay in Metropolis for family reasons and hoped that she help as many heroes as she could. That is how I shall fix the Supergirl special.
That might work as a wikipedia entry, it does not work as a story. Those events happened to different versions of the same character, they cannot be reconciled as being the memories of one character, particularly when these memories include such things as being dead, never existing in the firstplace, and being a completely separate entity.
in line male gaze, there's also female gaze, although instead of lust, it's more generated by envy. it's like the "men want to be with her (ie lust), women want to be like her (ie envy)"
There are so many places that DC Comics could go with Supergirl and Power Girl, but all they want to do with them is this tired old " Who am I? What's my place in the universe?" storyline.
I don't know how widespread is the opinions that SuperGirl and Power Girl are similar, but if DC wants to dissipate theses opinions, the best way to do it is not to make them more similar, but to highlight the differences between the two.
I have purchased it but I haven't read it. I do enjoy when the writers take a more in depth look into the character. It's interesting how they view their characters. Especially Supergirl and Powergirl. Both are going through an identity crisis. Both are from different backgrounds but yet they are both the same. I'd like to see them team up in more adventures together. BFF and all. I am also enjoying the Powergirl series. Can't wait to see how it ends.
I was looking forward to your talking about this cause I felt it was confusing because it's doing the power girl story again when the other book is coming out, lol
We compare ourselves to others all the time; even people that look like more together versions of our (currently) ideal selves. We need to excel and to be distinct from one another and by saying they're the same or extensions of the same person is diminishing to both.
I find the biker gang tone to actually be really true to life with this. You see this in farming families, sometimes everyone gets the same opportunity to all buy the same cool and comfy leather jacket from the same retailer in town, and because they're family they're not concerned with cramping each other's "style" like a tryhad Superboy thinking a jacket is his "thing". What I find alienating is the way "superheroes" carry it like a branding that they are superheroes, and then of course they all have some fantastical, tailored costume that's REALLY tryhard. Of course, it comes with the genre. My counterpoint is that's WHY genre writing is trashy writing. That's why Watchmen is actually good, commenting on and rationalizing it. Though you'd prefer all of that be just in the background of a subtly written hero story so you don't NEED the commentary.
I feel, dc really needs to get Jon back to being a kid and bring back the eathest, fun chaos he brought to the super family. He really dose feel superfluous as a teen/ young adult.
The reason they changed Power Girl's iconic appearance, as you put it, is the same reason they changed Ms.Marvel's prior to making her Captain Marvel. It is purely an attempt to 'battle the patriarchy' by removing anything which appeals to the dreaded 'male gaze'. You know. Stuff that generally sells comic books. Look how good that's been working, too.
I feel a big part of teh issue is the fact that there are too many people in teh Superman family to all function like this together. Just like how Conner felt out of place, there is no niche for anyone if they are all functioning in Metropolis. What worked before with them was there being a Super on ther various teams as the powerhouse. Teh PG series also does her a disservice because it sounds more of a SG story . Despite it kinda acknowledging PG's past, it falls short of giving a reason why there is such a character shift
Always love your reviews on comics, I think theres an opportunity for these two, Powergirl and Supergirl to learn from one another. Don't know how that can be played out in comics however. Keep up the good work. Love your content
To be honest I hate the new version of the Super Family so much. WHY ARE YOU ALL WEARING LEATHER JACKETS. Kon was an edgy teenager so it made sense for him but why ARE YOU A SUPER BIKER GANG NOW. I want the back my croocked capes, skirts, thighty redies and Kon being the only edgy boi with spikes on his shoulders.
The Supergirl Powergirl differences could have been handled better. The writers should take a look at Alan Moore's Promethea and how there are many different versions of Promethea and their approach to life.
PG and Supergirl can exist together.. the problem is that Supergirl doesn't have a really unique voice or perspective to add that Power Girl clearly does.. and I love PG appearing in the JSA as one of the teachers of the Lost generation of JSA kids, that's a cool idea (especially with Huntress). The big problem is Supergirl. DC has never really figured out who she is or why she exists beyond.. Superman as a girl and they've literally obliterated and pretend all the other, more interesting Supergirls and Superwomen don't exist and aren't ever mentioned again to hightlight the fact that.. Supergirl doesn't really have a defined direction or character or anything. They've floundered with her a lot.. and now making PG into a knock off Supergirl, which she never was, is hurting BOTH. What they really need to do is sit down and start defining characters, and over all ideas of who they are ESPECIALLY female characters. Wonder Woman has suffered from a general lack of direction or vision as well and because of that others have suffered (the entire Wonder Family is in a constant state of flux and lack of direction because Wonder Woman has 0 direction. She can be hardass feminist warrior babe like Artemis one second, calm, cool collected Goddess of Truth like Donna, daughter of Zeus trying to make her way in the world like Cassie, out and out misogynist, or classic caring Diana that wants to help.. or even some weird merging of the these in a mess when Diana isn't any of those. So yeah.. I think DC needs to have a meeting and start carving out specific characters and characteristics and start reinforcing that some works that are standards that every writer writing that character (again especially female characters) needs ot have read and reference before going forward.. cause it's such a mess over there and being a fan of female characters with DC and Marvel can be.. tough at times with how openly hostile they can be to the characters (obviously same with Non-white and queer characters as well).
I haven´t the chance to read Power Girl (someday I´ll be getting the Palmiotti run). That being said, besides of her looks, what I´ve always heard about her makes her to me much more interesting that Supergirl. ...and here´s hoping she gets the chance to be on moves, eventually, only as she´s always looked. And I wouldn´t worry about the new costume. She´ll go back to the original at some point. The same happened in the New 52.
this was a good issue...which makes me even *MADDER* about the state of the Power Girl series!!! Also, i had two thoughts and was happy to see them mentioned. First, why yes, i did have that intrusive thought about the two blonde superheroines and it was fun to see the comic did too (the twitter thirst post) and second, I was disappointed to see Power Girl drawn less busty. Maybe it's sexist but im glad you as a woman addressed it because as a man i dont feel like i could without people thinking it was just for horny reasons.
True. In Power girl's special, I confused her for Supergirl. And when Kara starred in the comic, it felt like i was looking at twins. Hey, Karen/Paige is hot. There's nothing wrong with that. She's still a fun character to read about.
Was this Power Girl closer to what Geoff Johns has in JSA, Sasha? I got that impression from what you said. In my eyes, Power Girl is the one Paul Levitz and Gerry Conway wrote in the 70s, who was confident and used to irk the old timers or the Palmiotti/Conner one that imo was the best representation. Now that Geoff has brought in a time displaced Huntress, surely that is the perfect companion for someone else who "shouldn't exist"? Btw, what has happened to Jon? He was great under Peter Tomasi and then Tom Taylor made a great job of dealing with the Bendis nonsense, but suddenly under other writers he comes across as really irritating and full of himself and his opinions (like he has a lot of life experience other than being tortured in a volcano!).
If both story lines are so close then it is creatively very sad, indirectly saying that the only story worth telling is that young women are insecure. The classic visual difference between the two allowed for the two story lines: Young Adult and Confident Adult. I imagine that a Supergirl storyline is difficult to tell. For that reason, I think that the most unique story is: Superman/Batman #8-13 Kara-Zor El by Michael Turner, Jeff Loeb
I honestly was worried the special was going to start a merging storyline. I am still concerned to some extent since I like both to still be separate. Any issues could be solved if they just decide to settle on what continuity history we are working with. But I doubt we will get an answer before the next reboot
damn i love seeing powergirl confident and strong and the idea supergirl feels inadequate compared to powergirl should be because there, she's looking at her "future" self
I think Power Girl would be better off with the Huntress and her crew. On the other hand, Power Girl and Nightwing should have a team-up comic. It'd be have your cake and eat it too.
I noticed the poster being half-down but wondered if it was on purpose. What was being hidden? Was it like a flag at half-mast? What did I miss in the larger DC continuity? Then you noticed it and took it down. I really appreciate you leaving that in. It's those humanizing touches that make me love this channel so much!
Power Girl: "Is there anything you wanna say before ending up again in jail, Toyman?!" Toyman: "Yes, actually. I would like to ask: considering your biological condition, if you hooked up with Supergirl, would it be lesbianism or would it just count as pure m*sturbation?" Power Girl: "SON OF A..." Superman: "Don't blame him, Karen. Everyone, without exception, wonders that..."
As long as you're mentioning Invader Zim I'll use it as an opportunity to ask if you're ever going to cover the Oni Comics Invader Zim run since you're clearly a fan of the franchise (and the trades of the series have shown up in the background).
Really dislike whenever Powergirl is involved in anything related with Supergirl, Kara is my favorite character and its tiring seeing them try to force a relationship between the two. I'm gay, and Powergirl inherently appeals to the male gaze. Her sexualization is a big reason I dislike her character, and it feels weird because it's just an adult/alt Kara being sexualized.
Gonna be honest, this was the first piece of Supergirl work I’ve ever picked up. I’m only really familiar with her though her animated counterparts. I do like how contrasting Supergirl and Power Girl are in personality here, not really enjoying the Power Girl run as it is right now. I kind of hope it gets better though. I do miss her more buxom design. I think that combined with her current suit would work pretty well actually. Just lose the jacket and maybe give her a hip sash instead?
I didn't read I am not Starfire because that just wasn't for me, but I Liked Mariko Tamaki's Detective run. That was pretty solid. Would have been interesting to see what she could do with Green Lantern. But Jeremy Adams is more than fine. I think she would write a good punchline though. Another one who'd do that. G. Willow Wilson. The most underrated writer out there. Who I've liked ever since Air for vertigo way back when. I think her Wonder Woman run was the best I've read.
In my perception, "Supergirl - Woman of Tomorrow" is in continuity. Because at the end she changes her costume and now has pants and since then this has also become the case in all the other titles.
Power Girl should just be with the JSA. Power Girl wearing the House of El / L logo is wrong to her character, Power Girl wanted to stand as her own independent heroine. PG is much better with the Justice Society of America than with the Superfamily, and works far better with Huntress than Omen. Go back to what worked DC, this Paige experiment isn’t working.
I don't mind her having the El/L logo, it is her family symbol, but maybe make it blue or something to set her apart a bit and fit better with her costume. Paige tho is so dumb. It's like when Superman decided to "kill" Clark Kent and become a firefighter, "Johnny Clark", however that story actually explored how Clark feels about his identity and responsibility as superman, acknowledging Johnny is just a way for Clark to always be Superman but also that Kent is an important person with needs as well, not just pretending the identity never existed to give him a new name that required some major mental gymnastics to come up with and is way lamer.
@@ProjektTakuYes that’s her family logo, but she isn’t defined by it like the other supers. Star Spangled Kid gave her a gift of a chest emblem made from cosmic energy. She crushed it, angered by the idea of a symbol of the letter “P” in a Superman configuration. It was soon after that Power Girl went with the open space on her chest. It was her intent for it to prove that she was Power Girl, not Superman's cousin.
@@365partybeau But I'd still be nice if that was represented in her design, and I like how the earth-2 series incorporated it. That is true but honestly that just made her come across as a bully, plus it was pre-the S symbol representing the L's, instead just being Superman's symbol, and it was a random P instead of the crest of her family. She can still be independent even while wearing the symbol, after all, she's already tied closely with her Superman and the main universe's Kara, the S isn't going to make her an instant copycat.
Well, it's a dynamic, she's defined by not being defined by it. A negation is always a single step away from position, that's why there's no real opposites in this world. In my mind I like to expand the metaphor of two sides of the same coin, with the two sides of a minting press. You're DEFINED by the press, which may be arbitrated depending on the celebration, so it's not from a genetic origin of who YOU are. But a coin only is a coin when the minting happens. Two sides of the same coin, or the ura-omote, ARE of the same genetic origin. Inescapable. But not visible at the same time. She could wear the symbol mirrored like an ambulance. Honk honk. And/or on her back, so we ge the cheesy: "it's always facing the place I'm leaving from." But honestly it would just come off as pathetic, lady doth protest too much. Fun tidbit, I googled "ianus" and google hucked out "itchy anus". Man, hope that's not that thing where AI diagnoses your problems before even any symptoms arise.
2:26 Anyone who is a fan of Nextwave Agents of H.A.T.E. should be extremely familiar with a non-cannon book having an effect on cannon. Well, before the effect became so strong that it was retconned into being cannon, but that's a different rabbit hole.
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Did You Enjoy The Supergirl Special?
Well done! I like how you highlight the contrast between PG and SG. I still think the best SG story has yet to be told.
I haven't read it but the first thing that comes to mind while watching you video is why Power Girl actually "Power Girl" here compared to her own series? She seems way more in line just to make that juxtaposition with Super Girl but also shows that the author actually understands her character? maybe thats just me 🤔
I did. I appreciate Supergirl with her feelings. I like when she's "angry" (didn't enjoy the King interpretation though.)
What made me happiest was that they didn't lean on her & Powergirl having a strained relationship.
But my goodness, I have no interest in Powergirl.
Didn't pick it up.
As a long time Supergirl fan it was just okay aka meh. I feel like I've seen this story rethreaded so many times before in different forms so it would have been nice to see something different. Plus if you read any of those Action Comics backups or the Power Girl book it's just really jarring when you juxtapose those stories with this one.
I always felt Power Girl was like Supergirl's older, independent sister. This sort of insecure girl rivalry feels like a major step back.
I agree it would have been way more cooler if they made them more like sisters
I agree. I think a mentor/mentee relationship would really suit the characters. PG is just an older version of Kara from the multiverse right? If anything, she should be amazed by how cool she can become. Maybe even have a story of PG telling Kara a bunch of life lessons she wish she had heard growing up (heck if DC’s really adamant about Kara/PG’s defining character struggle be an inferiority complex, let the 2 of them have a story where they’re boosting each other up since they each have a different perspective on where each of them is in life).
@@MrKingkzSomeone call Liu Kang 😅
They could have have had a fight over the ownership of the cat. This would literally have been a Supergirl / Power Girl cat fight.
Who are you and why aren’t you working for DC?
I need that to be a 200 page graphic novel
As a woman with large brests, I don't love that their solution to her "oversexualization" was to change her body. It lowkey made me feel like there was something wrong and dirty about MY body, in their eyes at least, because obviously if you are large chested you're going to look like you're in a porn movie no matter what 🙄
They just wanna destroy the concept of attractive
Powergirl was always "Come for the boobs, stay for the character," I picked one of her first books back in the 80's because I was a teen and couldn't buy playboys. But I liked the fact that she was different from Supergirl, and I've stuck with the character. I have not been a big fan of the current version in her own series. Paige sucks as a name. I think they may have wanted to move away from "Karen" because of the implications of that name, but I wish they had addressed in story and left her as Karen. "My name is Karen, I'm not a Karen, though I still need to speak to your manager."
They could have just played off the Karen image like Randy in the South Park streaming wars.
I completely agree with your opinion on Power Girl's appearance. Her big bosom was part of her look, as silly as that sounds, and you could tell a lot about her personality by the fact that she rocked the boob window. I would even argue that it forced artists to draw her looking confident because it would be really hard to draw a demure person with so much...ahem...gifting. Also, Brad Bird was wrong. Capes are better than jackets, screw Edna Mode.
Agree on the capes. What did I learn to draw drapery for, if not to adorn my characters in magnificent capes?
I agree with the cape thing but the boob window was a bit much
I agree with you on the Powergirl bosom debate. Defending the boob window isn't saying all comic book women should dress like that, it's what makes Powergirl stand out from all the other ones. Obviously we want variety when it comes to characters and costumes, so I like it when Powergirl stands out, as opposed to seeing every character drawn with the exact same proportions. And you're right, her confidence was a huge part of the appeal of her character.
@@MrKingkzI mean Power Girl is a bit much.
@@amusingmoose9924 If you don't mind me asking what do you mean by that I have always liked power girl I just think her boob Window is a bit much
If all the Robins can get a long, Supergirl and Power Girl can find a way to get along
They're too different it wouldn't be right if they ever got along they have to clash Robins usually have the same powers were talking about a Magical Being vs an Alien
All there Robin's get along?
That'll be news to Damian and Jason
@@travishiltz4750 I mean Jason has pretty effectively reentered into the bat family proper. At this moment in time they do all kinda have beef with each other, but they can still work off of each other in a way that compliments each one as an individual. Except for Tim. Most writers still do not know what to do with poor Tim.
@@bluesnake4626 The Bat family gets along because they all agree they need to keep an eye on Jason and Damian.
On any given day, those two are five minutes away from being super villains.
But, I do agree with you, they need to treat Tim better.
His new series, with him being more of a detective is a good move.
Shame the art is so ugly.
Ever gone somewhere and another woman is wearing the same dress your girlfriend is, nah bro, they shouldn't get along at all my dude
There's no way Lois didn't just buy cupcakes. That's way more Lois.
"What if I were to purchase baked goods and disguise it as my own cooking?"
@OtakuD50 "ohoh ohoh! Delightfully devilish, Lois! "
Ma Kent taught her to bake cupcakes. It's Clark's favorite!
Even the cupcakes have a secret identity!
Honestly the fact that she says “oh, I can do cupcakes.” Makes it seem like she bought them
Speaking of Supergirl and Power Girl's relationship, it's pretty funny that, as Amanda Conner showed in a sketch, Kara is REALLY jealous of her Earth Two counterpart's much bigger "plot." It is not only hilarious af, but also gives Kara an adorable touch of femininity that makes her more human.
Yes, we definitely like Power Girl's "plot".
But it goes against everything that's been established in their dynamic and the dialog in their battles Power Gurl was only fighting Kara out of not knowing who she is and wanting to take it out on somebody and Supergirl hated her for that like held a grudge The fact that they use what you're talking about is not coherent with what's been going on with what's been happeningeith with them
This was literally addressed in the video. She even showed the sketch.
Back in the Bronze Age, when Power Girl was first introduced, there was never any similarities in the personalities of Supergirl and Power Girl. Other than the desire to live up to Superman's standards they were completely different characters.
Side note: Has there ever been like am elseworlds story or something like that where Kara arrived on earth at the same time as Kal-El? It could make an awesome story with her raising him on the run from the government or someone.
There's Gotham City Garage where Kara finds the baby Kal and is going to raise him. But that's basically the epilogue of the series so we don;t get to see what her raising him looks like
I think there's a fanfiction out there with that premise but no elseworld that I know of
Something similar to this happens with Dark Knights of Steel. There Jor-El and Lara were able to join Kal and landed on the same planet and butterfly effects out from there.
I just find the dynamic so bizarre. We start out back in Action with Power Girl having beef with Supergirl and Supergirl being baffled by it, and then Power Girl seemingly working through what her issues were. Then here we have Supergirl having beef with Power Girl and Power Girl being baffled by it. And it's especially odd because it really came across as Supergirl *deciding* to have beef with Power Girl just because it seemed like she should.
Talentless writers who write poorly is why lol
@@garycannon4644
That's Mariko Tamaki for you.
@@freman007 she was the one behind this nonsense?
@@garycannon4644 Kara beefing with powergirl? Yes. Paige beefing with Kara? That is on Leah Williams I think.
yeah, that's something that really bothered me as well
You hit the nail on the head, i think. PG & SG are different characters. Even if they are meant to be sort of the same person they are at different stages of that life - Classic Karen (Paige?) is older, confident, mature - though sometimes brash, and is someone who fully embraces her physicality and the effect it has on others. Kara is young, often insecure, often angry but also sweet and empathetic. This blurring of the lines between the two feels like deliberate executive meddling.
I’m 43 years old and just now learned that some people think Power Girl is redundant because of Supergirl,or vice versa. I’ve always just thought they filled their own niches. This beginning with people on social media saying they’re “twinimes” or whatever just seems forced to me,since I don’t even think of them as looking similar.
I feel like it is completely possible to have both Supergirl and Powergirl. To me I feel like they would fit in well with an older sister younger sister dynamic. They both have similar pasts and even technically the same parents. But they ultimately still faced different situations throughout their lives have had different reactions, just like siblings do. You could have a few issues where Supergirl fights against it much like this, but learns to accept Powergirl as something like a sister. Someone who they both can rely on, who knows things about their family and history that only they can share. But also can recognize that they are different people who bring different things not only to the Super-family, but to their own relationship. Powergirl as a more mature and self confident figure can help Supergirl explore and learn how to be confident and secure in her own way. And in that same vain you can take a little bit of the plot of Powergirl's current series. Powergirl can be confident in who she is as a person and as a hero, but still feel disconnected from the super family. Supergirl then can be Powergirl's bridge to the Superfamily as her first step to feeling like she has a family on this earth. I feel like their is so much potential for some cute interactions with the two of them just they just get a chance to vibe with each other and even learn to get on each other's nerves in just the right way that only a sibling can. Just let them acknowledge each other as individuals, but also as close family that have a connection beyond the whole of the superfamily.
ACK! You missed mentioning the most direct 'we're really the same person' reveal! The 9 panel cupcake thing was a set up - to show some quirk that's uniquely Supergirl's - tearing a cupcake in half then smooshing it onto the frosting of a second cupcake... which Power Girl then ALSO does later on page 38 right under the laughing panel you show. This basically says 'they're WAY more alike even down to their subconscious quirks'.
Also, yeah, the 'destiny' thing is really awful. It suggests neither of them have real agency - this is how things HAVE to be.
The cupcakes pulled their weight in this story
@@CasuallyComicsThis issue was light on cheesecake, but full on cupcakes. Mileage will vary 😂
This is the dynamic I wanted back! I would have loved to see PG all sassy and bombastic all of the time, while trying to make her space in the Superfam. Her being 10 years older than Supergirl always gave her "cooler, older cousin" vibes to me. And I'm sorry it's not in her own series.
Also regarding Powergirl’s larger assets,
there’s a commentary there that I’m not really fond of,
that people who are well endowed, must downplay that to be taken seriously!
Like being busty isn’t a choice any more than not being is!
So to make it seem like you need to change that to be taken more seriously isn’t a great look for them either!
Like no one struggles to see Nightwing as a fully fledged character with complex emotions, and interesting perspectives!
And have you seen the cheesecake on that man?!
And I’m talking less about fans, and more DC editorial and staff! I don’t know, it seems like in the pursuit of having her be taken seriously, the almost undermined it inadvertently…
I say this as someone who has many busty friends, who this is a real thing for them,
they can’t wear something that another person would wear, for fear of it looking like they are trying to be more sexual, or anything to do with a dress code, like it’s a weird thing that we haven’t moved past this idea that big boobs are inherently sexual when they aren’t, they can be, and if that’s what the person, or in this case character/writer is going for that’s fine!
But they don’t have to be.
And you don’t need to bind them up to be taken seriously, and you can have them without that being the whole point!
And I think that’s the thing DC should focus on that PG is a badass character who happens to be well endowed!
The same way they treat Nightwing as a multifaceted character even though he is insanely cheesecaked up!!!!!!! The whole Powergirl series seems to be an solution looking for a problem, and/or DC projection what they think people see on these characters (Supergirl and Powergirl)
To me, while the special wasn't bad, it did feel kinda forgettable,like in a " that sure was a comic i read" kinda way.Side note, I'm kinda surprised that they reduced Powergirl's bust size, considering that most of the internet loves thicc women at the moment.
you see they aren't in the business of pleasing most people, hence why the shit show of power girl/supergirl is happening
It's a shame how this book has to contend with the Power Girl book. I do really like this book. Kara and Karen feel on point, good art, and feels well connected to the other Super titles rn(Power Girl aside). I'd say I'd like to see more of this as a mini but with Power Girl already doing this it'd feel redundant. I guess the simple fix would be to write Power Girl accurately. I personally didn't feel the last few panels drops their individuality.
I want a Mariko Tamaki-written Cassandra Cain series. She obviously has a knack and love for the character (per her Tec run, OBD: Two-Face #1, and the one-shot Cass story for AAPI).
The jacket costumes looked cool for five seconds, now they look like 90s throwbacks. Supergirl and Powergirl need their signature looks.
That was one of the many great things about the Pre-crisis stories...having them on separate earths made that argument regarding any level of redundancy between them no -existent. There were so many counterparts of other characters that it almost felt wrong to NOT have a Supergirl analog on Earth-2. And making her so different from her Earth one counterpart really gave a good sense that she was her own character rather than just another doppelganger like Batman, or Superman, or Wonder Woman. From what I have seen in these more recent depictions...it's almost like they are working towards some contrived story line where we find out that they are actually half of a single being and that, in the same way they are now more physically similar (bye bye booswhams, OY...what am I 12) that they will make their personalities so identical that, at some point not only do we find out they are the same person, just split into two parts, but that they will have some reason they have to be re-merged into a single being, either one, or both of them will die if they don't, or their existence is causing such a cosmic dysfunction that if they aren't re-merged back into a single being it could destroy the universe; and we all know DC DOES love a good (or more accurately BAD) universe destroying event. OF course now....IF they were to use that to reset the multiverse back to it's original pre-crisis mode I could get behind that, but that would be the ONLY way. Mind you this is just all my mind going off on it's tangents.
So to clarify, no I really don't like the way they are going with these two characters and frankly I can't see any real benefit to what they are doing. I realize I'm not privy to the long range plans they have, but they way things are now...not so much.
Supergirl and Powergirl have been distinct for decades, way back to the 70s. I can remember reading some of Powergirl's pre-Crisis appearances, and recognizing that she was much more distinct from Supergirl than the Earth 2 Superman or Batman were from their Earth 1 counterparts. It was more like the differences between the Flashes and Green Lanterns.
Hearing the name Pustulio was like being jump scared by my 6th grade self.
They always seemed so different to me that whenever they did meet up, it was the irony of their similar backstory yet still being so different that stood out. Their portrayals here are fine. It's Power Girl's portrayal in her own series that feels off.
I think it would be a better idea like you said, to have them split. Powergirl hangs out with Jsa, supergirl, with the the super family. This way, th3y can have great stories... seperately. Then again though, powergirl might feel left out if she isnt with the supr family.
I am totally digging the Power Girl content we've been getting on the channel lately 🙂
Great video, Sasha! I think the traditional differences between Supergirl and Power Girl is one of the best uses of the parallel earths concept. It shows the “same” character can have similar paths with different outcomes.
My take is that some new intern at D.C. mixed both PowerGirl and SuperGirl scripts and D.C. just ran with it instead of changing anything hoping that nobody would notice....
18:42 I totally agree with the concept that "there will always be something to gaze at." I feel like it's more about controlling the gaze rather than "getting rid of it".
This special should’ve been about how Kara Zor-El felt redundant as well as us learning about her entire history and continuity from her pre-Crisis appearance in 1959 to her death in 1985 to her return in 2004 to her living the best life right now.
Also, this special should’ve been about Supergirl and Power Girl comparing notes on why and how they are different and that they remember meeting each other in a 1981 Wonder Woman storyline titled Judgement in Infinity.
Also, Supergirl sprinting is a reference to an issue of Adventure comics from the late 1960s or early 1970s.
Also, she should’ve talked to the Superman Family about how she’s second fiddle or that she’s redundant.
I don't really read supergirl and don't think I've ever read a pure powergirl book but I super enjoy the way you break their stories and histories down and even get me to think about them in a completely different way than I would ever have on my own. Great channel and love you sharing your takes!
17:49 As someone who grew up as a busty girl ngl, powergirl being busty and the way she handled it in Amanda Conner's run really helped me deal with my own growth and the attention it recieved so seeing her no longer very busty makes me quite sad
Pics or it didnt happen😅😂
I just thought they meant that it was their destiny to be friends or to work together not to be the same person. As far as I'm concerned the Power Girl series might as well be happening in a different universe.
Now this is gonna sound crazy but I always think of Power Girl as having both Superman and Batman traits. The sometimes snarky and sarcastic feel of some Batman portrayals while having the strength n bravery of Superman. Whereas Supergirl to me is Superman and Wonder Woman, the striving for best and determination (which can be a flaw when excessive) of Diana but also the do gooder nature and justice focus Clark is known for. Love Karen Power Girl probably developed bias since she appeared in the Harley comic n I loved that story. 😅
7:41 Like a ship blown from its mooring, like a seed dropped by a sky bird in a distant wood
Bring back the big boobed Power Girl DC. Give her her confidence back. Let Supergirl be the unsure one. It fits her better. Also, am I the only one who’s curious as to how Kara affords that apartment? Like pre-new 52 she sold tech to Batman so she could buy a place to live. But I’m curious as to how she does it in the dawn of the dcu.
If you used a unidirectional bonding strip, there's your problem. You need bidirectional bonding strips.
JSA also seems to be using a more classic depiction of Power Girl. The editors need to at least get on the same page about how they want to depict her. Meh, maybe the Power Girl series will be pushed out of canon.
Feels like they want Superman books to replicate the superhero family setup that's been so popular with the Flash Family and Bat Family, hence all Super characters becoming a lot more tightly knit, even ones like Power Girl who were usually better served being off doing something different.
Im honestly just glad we got supergirl back. she died in 1985 and we didnt get her back till 2004, 5 years before we got Barry back.
Was I the only one distracted for most of this video by the cuff of Sasha's left sleeve being turned up while the right sleeve was not? Once I noticed I kept watching it thinking "She's going to notice this, remark on it, fix it, and continue - just like the falling poster behind her." But that never happened.
Just wanted to say i read SuperGirl: Woman of Tomorrow from one of your SG videos and that was an exceptional bit of comic, even /without/ me actually being much of a SG fan at all. Just goes to show what a strong little story it was for the 8 or whatever issues it ran.
I keep flashing back to when would cry every few panels...
This was a good Supergirl story. I agree SG and PG shoul be kept further apart. Powergirl to me is a JSA character and only an auxiliary member of the super fam. Like she respects and gets along with them but she's spending her time running the JSA and giving Ted Grant the business. She's the veteran even compared to Superman since she was on Earth-2 for so long. To see her as a fish out of water rookie is disappointing to say the least.
If I met my alternate universe version of myself I would spend so much time asking questions. "Did this happen to you?", "Do you remember this?", "Did you have this?".
I dont understand how and why writers are having so much trouble separating Kara and Karen and making them coexiste. The two have one common point of history but from there have very different lives, it feels like somebody in the ranks doesn't actually care about the past and wont bother looking into it. Ive gotten plenty of ideas from looking into a characters contanuity for fan fiction ideas, one of witch my friends love and solved the Kara/Karen problem; just make them sisters!! Give them the vibe of Estranged Sisters in main cannon and have the conflict be about how they dont know how to connect or if they even want to! That could work and be a fun new angle go for!
I know it can be streched to infinitly, but I think, there should be also the question; is Supergirl more preferred, becsuse of Superman?
To be fair, until you pointed it out I didn't even notice the poster. You have very compelling opinions & I'm here for that😊
Supergirl and Powergirl need an *animated feature* that can give audiences a good depiction of how they differ from each other and their mindset
That reminds me. Was Power Girl ever on that CW Supergirl show?
@@jerfuhrer2581nope
@@jerfuhrer2581 unfortunately no. They more so leaned into the legion of superheroes rather than the Superman family
@@pickedceasar1216 such a missed opportunity
@@jerfuhrer2581 yeah for some reason every CW show’s seasons were both dragged out and rushed in terms of comic stuff to use for potential arcs
I enjoy the fact that Supergirl and Power Girl are having identity crisis due to each's past and the fact they are sharing the same universe. I wish DC would do more of this.
The character writing is so much better and more in-character from what I'd expect than the Power Girl series.
Sasha, as a long time Supergirl fan I didn't enjoy this. The whole 'unsure' Supergirl thing has been done to death and frankly needs to stop. I was not a fan of Tom King's WoT and guess it's good it got people interested in the character, but frankly I don't think it was a good characterization of Supergirl. Naturally, she shouldn't just be the same as she was in the Silver Age but like, too many runs seem to just either go with the anger/angst stuff with her, or unsure of herself, and like she never seems held as a candidate for well the legacy of the Super Family. Which something that kind of irks me.
Power Girl I agree should be kept with her more confident persona that most comic fans know. I think you can do stuff with her and Supergirl, but they do need to be kept distinct from one another. The idea of them as kind of having a sister dynamic works. They may both be 'Kara' from their respective origins, but they are individuals with their own experiences and personalities. I don't think any of the recent PG stuff has gotten the character right, and yeah seems like the writer especially from her new series is trying to make her a 'Supergirl Lite' somehow (especially with the Daily Planet job). Nor did I like this special as it didn't seem to be well revealing anything new about Kara and her issues with PG felt very forced. Also don't understand where her not being able to recall detail about Krypton comes from.
Supergirl has been WAY better handled in her World's Finest appearances of late. Having good characterization, moments, and being funny. Her 'orphanage' crack at Superman in one issue being priceless plus the fun of her bad date with Dick, but showing her being quite mature and wise with everything. Also enjoyed her being close with Clark and able to talk about it with him in that issue. Anyway, just one Supergirl fan's thoughts here.
Keep up your amazing work Sasha, and thanks for covering my favorite characters like Supergirl and PG :)
I actually wouldn't say that the "shared destiny" thing is such a problem. To me it makes sense. There like two similar marbles set out into the world both trying to hit the target, but taking different ways. That doesn't mean they're the same. They just work towards the same thing. As lots of superheroes do
Heartily Agree!
Honestly it’s way better than the Powergirl stuff but I feel the supergirl special was just a problem I have with supergirl as a whole… writers obsessing over her obsessing over others. It’s not Superman, that’s good, but damn it feels like writers can’t handle the super family vs other families.
I love how we’re all talking about Powergirl’s loss of boobs, but not Supergirl’s loss of her big S
I’m from the future. James Gunn doesn’t even make a Supergirl movie. Just 7 Oscar Winning Condiment
King movies and 1 middling Captain Carrot movie with an awkward sex scene and too much violence.
Did not notice the poster in the background, but did see your left arm shirt sleeve being crooked.
Long story short, they either should’ve done two things keep power girl on earth two or just kill her off.
I always felt that super girl should have evolved into becoming Powergirl. Like how Dick became Nightwing.
3:18
Its was pretty insane to see Supergirl being turned into an angry Red Lantern. I bet Jimmy Olsen said while watching her: "I knew that I would regret leaving her for Karen" 😢
thank you for bring up the fact that a lot of comics (esp. today) are adult fantasy, as in fantasizing, not necessarily realistic or gritty realism at all, or even a reality/sociological mandated representation of society .
Earlier versions of Power girl made me feel like she was 8 to 10 years older than Supergirl. She held herself as more mature and experienced.
To fix the Supergirl Special, I would have Kara Zor-El recap her entire life from being born in Argo City over a decade after Krypton’s destruction to her arriving on Earth and meeting her cousin Superman and taking on the identity of Linda Lee in 1959 (or 36 years before Dawn of DC) to her meeting the Original Legion of Super-Heroes in 1960 (or 35 years before Dawn of DC) to her getting adopted by Fred and Edna Danvers and revealing her existence to the world in 1962 (or 33 years before Dawn of DC) to her going to college in 1964 (or 33 years before Dawn of DC) to going to different cities - San Francisco, New Athens, NYC, and Chicago - from 1969 to 1985 (or 32 to 26 years before Dawn of DC) to her death and sacrifice in 1985 (or 26 years before Dawn of DC) to her resurrection and graduation as the second Superwoman in 2004 (or 13 years before Dawn of DC) to her resuming her Linda Lee Danvers identity since 2005 (or 12 years before Dawn of DC) to her staying in Metropolis, NYC, and National City since 2007 (or 11 years before Dawn of DC) to her living the great life and spending time with the Superman Family by now.
While thinking about her years, she would recall her cousin wanting her to live a great life on Earth as well as him helping her deal with the loss of Argo City, which is similar to how he lost Krypton as an infant. She would also recall meeting her pre-Crisis Earth-Two self-named Power Girl (or Power Woman since the first Crisis in 1985) during the Judgement in Infinity storyline in 1981. There, they would talk about how similar and different they are and they hope that they’ll meet each other again soon. She would even meet legacy versions of herself (Matrix, Linda Danvers, and Cir-El) and help them deal with their problems (I.e. Matrix with her becoming the latest Earth-born Angel, Linda Danvers finding her daughter Ariella in the 853rd Century and becoming that era’s Flamebird, and Cir-El being remembered for her sacrifice).
By now, after this, Kara would decide to resume her Linda Lee Danvers identity, since it’s been so long since she had one. She decided that she’d stay in Metropolis for family reasons and hoped that she help as many heroes as she could.
That is how I shall fix the Supergirl special.
That might work as a wikipedia entry, it does not work as a story. Those events happened to different versions of the same character, they cannot be reconciled as being the memories of one character, particularly when these memories include such things as being dead, never existing in the firstplace, and being a completely separate entity.
Just imagine the Super mess there would be if they brought in Linda Danver's and Matrix's Supergirl, followed by Cir-El Supergirl. 😮
Oh wow that would be a cluster. HOWEVER if you had a deft writer handle it, it would be an intriguing, possibly great story.
in line male gaze, there's also female gaze, although instead of lust, it's more generated by envy. it's like the "men want to be with her (ie lust), women want to be like her (ie envy)"
There are so many places that DC Comics could go with Supergirl and Power Girl, but all they want to do with them is this tired old " Who am I? What's my place in the universe?" storyline.
I don't know how widespread is the opinions that SuperGirl and Power Girl are similar, but if DC wants to dissipate theses opinions, the best way to do it is not to make them more similar, but to highlight the differences between the two.
I have purchased it but I haven't read it. I do enjoy when the writers take a more in depth look into the character. It's interesting how they view their characters. Especially Supergirl and Powergirl. Both are going through an identity crisis. Both are from different backgrounds but yet they are both the same. I'd like to see them team up in more adventures together. BFF and all.
I am also enjoying the Powergirl series. Can't wait to see how it ends.
I liked when the two of them were Nightwing and Flamebird in Kandor and wore over the top Iron Man armors.
I was looking forward to your talking about this cause I felt it was confusing because it's doing the power girl story again when the other book is coming out, lol
Kinda feels like we're just a reboot away from a full retcon/reimagining in which they're actually twins or clones
We compare ourselves to others all the time; even people that look like more together versions of our (currently) ideal selves. We need to excel and to be distinct from one another and by saying they're the same or extensions of the same person is diminishing to both.
I find the biker gang tone to actually be really true to life with this. You see this in farming families, sometimes everyone gets the same opportunity to all buy the same cool and comfy leather jacket from the same retailer in town, and because they're family they're not concerned with cramping each other's "style" like a tryhad Superboy thinking a jacket is his "thing".
What I find alienating is the way "superheroes" carry it like a branding that they are superheroes, and then of course they all have some fantastical, tailored costume that's REALLY tryhard. Of course, it comes with the genre. My counterpoint is that's WHY genre writing is trashy writing. That's why Watchmen is actually good, commenting on and rationalizing it. Though you'd prefer all of that be just in the background of a subtly written hero story so you don't NEED the commentary.
I feel, dc really needs to get Jon back to being a kid and bring back the eathest, fun chaos he brought to the super family. He really dose feel superfluous as a teen/ young adult.
The reason they changed Power Girl's iconic appearance, as you put it, is the same reason they changed Ms.Marvel's prior to making her Captain Marvel. It is purely an attempt to 'battle the patriarchy' by removing anything which appeals to the dreaded 'male gaze'. You know. Stuff that generally sells comic books. Look how good that's been working, too.
Goodness I love how real you are with the mistakes and bloopers of your recordings 😂
I feel a big part of teh issue is the fact that there are too many people in teh Superman family to all function like this together. Just like how Conner felt out of place, there is no niche for anyone if they are all functioning in Metropolis. What worked before with them was there being a Super on ther various teams as the powerhouse.
Teh PG series also does her a disservice because it sounds more of a SG story . Despite it kinda acknowledging PG's past, it falls short of giving a reason why there is such a character shift
Always love your reviews on comics, I think theres an opportunity for these two, Powergirl and Supergirl to learn from one another. Don't know how that can be played out in comics however. Keep up the good work. Love your content
To be honest I hate the new version of the Super Family so much. WHY ARE YOU ALL WEARING LEATHER JACKETS. Kon was an edgy teenager so it made sense for him but why ARE YOU A SUPER BIKER GANG NOW.
I want the back my croocked capes, skirts, thighty redies and Kon being the only edgy boi with spikes on his shoulders.
The Supergirl Powergirl differences could have been handled better. The writers should take a look at Alan Moore's Promethea and how there are many different versions of Promethea and their approach to life.
At this point I half expect them to fuse the 2 together like Firestorm.
PG and Supergirl can exist together.. the problem is that Supergirl doesn't have a really unique voice or perspective to add that Power Girl clearly does.. and I love PG appearing in the JSA as one of the teachers of the Lost generation of JSA kids, that's a cool idea (especially with Huntress).
The big problem is Supergirl. DC has never really figured out who she is or why she exists beyond.. Superman as a girl and they've literally obliterated and pretend all the other, more interesting Supergirls and Superwomen don't exist and aren't ever mentioned again to hightlight the fact that.. Supergirl doesn't really have a defined direction or character or anything. They've floundered with her a lot.. and now making PG into a knock off Supergirl, which she never was, is hurting BOTH. What they really need to do is sit down and start defining characters, and over all ideas of who they are ESPECIALLY female characters. Wonder Woman has suffered from a general lack of direction or vision as well and because of that others have suffered (the entire Wonder Family is in a constant state of flux and lack of direction because Wonder Woman has 0 direction. She can be hardass feminist warrior babe like Artemis one second, calm, cool collected Goddess of Truth like Donna, daughter of Zeus trying to make her way in the world like Cassie, out and out misogynist, or classic caring Diana that wants to help.. or even some weird merging of the these in a mess when Diana isn't any of those.
So yeah.. I think DC needs to have a meeting and start carving out specific characters and characteristics and start reinforcing that some works that are standards that every writer writing that character (again especially female characters) needs ot have read and reference before going forward.. cause it's such a mess over there and being a fan of female characters with DC and Marvel can be.. tough at times with how openly hostile they can be to the characters (obviously same with Non-white and queer characters as well).
I haven´t the chance to read Power Girl (someday I´ll be getting the Palmiotti run). That being said, besides of her looks, what I´ve always heard about her makes her to me much more interesting that Supergirl.
...and here´s hoping she gets the chance to be on moves, eventually, only as she´s always looked.
And I wouldn´t worry about the new costume. She´ll go back to the original at some point. The same happened in the New 52.
I was also thinking she’d probably be good at writing Punchline!!!!!! 😊☺️
this was a good issue...which makes me even *MADDER* about the state of the Power Girl series!!! Also, i had two thoughts and was happy to see them mentioned. First, why yes, i did have that intrusive thought about the two blonde superheroines and it was fun to see the comic did too (the twitter thirst post) and second, I was disappointed to see Power Girl drawn less busty. Maybe it's sexist but im glad you as a woman addressed it because as a man i dont feel like i could without people thinking it was just for horny reasons.
True.
In Power girl's special, I confused her for Supergirl.
And when Kara starred in the comic, it felt like i was looking at twins.
Hey, Karen/Paige is hot. There's nothing wrong with that.
She's still a fun character to read about.
Was this Power Girl closer to what Geoff Johns has in JSA, Sasha? I got that impression from what you said. In my eyes, Power Girl is the one Paul Levitz and Gerry Conway wrote in the 70s, who was confident and used to irk the old timers or the Palmiotti/Conner one that imo was the best representation. Now that Geoff has brought in a time displaced Huntress, surely that is the perfect companion for someone else who "shouldn't exist"? Btw, what has happened to Jon? He was great under Peter Tomasi and then Tom Taylor made a great job of dealing with the Bendis nonsense, but suddenly under other writers he comes across as really irritating and full of himself and his opinions (like he has a lot of life experience other than being tortured in a volcano!).
If both story lines are so close then it is creatively very sad, indirectly saying that the only story worth telling is that young women are insecure.
The classic visual difference between the two allowed for the two story lines: Young Adult and Confident Adult.
I imagine that a Supergirl storyline is difficult to tell. For that reason, I think that the most unique story is: Superman/Batman #8-13 Kara-Zor El by Michael Turner, Jeff Loeb
I honestly was worried the special was going to start a merging storyline. I am still concerned to some extent since I like both to still be separate. Any issues could be solved if they just decide to settle on what continuity history we are working with. But I doubt we will get an answer before the next reboot
damn i love seeing powergirl confident and strong and the idea supergirl feels inadequate compared to powergirl should be because there, she's looking at her "future" self
I think Power Girl would be better off with the Huntress and her crew.
On the other hand, Power Girl and Nightwing should have a team-up comic. It'd be have your cake and eat it too.
I noticed the poster being half-down but wondered if it was on purpose. What was being hidden? Was it like a flag at half-mast? What did I miss in the larger DC continuity? Then you noticed it and took it down. I really appreciate you leaving that in. It's those humanizing touches that make me love this channel so much!
Power Girl: "Is there anything you wanna say before ending up again in jail, Toyman?!"
Toyman: "Yes, actually. I would like to ask: considering your biological condition, if you hooked up with Supergirl, would it be lesbianism or would it just count as pure m*sturbation?"
Power Girl: "SON OF A..."
Superman: "Don't blame him, Karen. Everyone, without exception, wonders that..."
As long as you're mentioning Invader Zim I'll use it as an opportunity to ask if you're ever going to cover the Oni Comics Invader Zim run since you're clearly a fan of the franchise (and the trades of the series have shown up in the background).
Really dislike whenever Powergirl is involved in anything related with Supergirl, Kara is my favorite character and its tiring seeing them try to force a relationship between the two. I'm gay, and Powergirl inherently appeals to the male gaze. Her sexualization is a big reason I dislike her character, and it feels weird because it's just an adult/alt Kara being sexualized.
Gonna be honest, this was the first piece of Supergirl work I’ve ever picked up. I’m only really familiar with her though her animated counterparts. I do like how contrasting Supergirl and Power Girl are in personality here, not really enjoying the Power Girl run as it is right now. I kind of hope it gets better though. I do miss her more buxom design. I think that combined with her current suit would work pretty well actually. Just lose the jacket and maybe give her a hip sash instead?
I didn't read I am not Starfire because that just wasn't for me, but I Liked Mariko Tamaki's Detective run. That was pretty solid. Would have been interesting to see what she could do with Green Lantern. But Jeremy Adams is more than fine. I think she would write a good punchline though. Another one who'd do that. G. Willow Wilson. The most underrated writer out there. Who I've liked ever since Air for vertigo way back when. I think her Wonder Woman run was the best I've read.
In my perception, "Supergirl - Woman of Tomorrow" is in continuity. Because at the end she changes her costume and now has pants and since then this has also become the case in all the other titles.
Power Girl should just be with the JSA. Power Girl wearing the House of El / L logo is wrong to her character, Power Girl wanted to stand as her own independent heroine. PG is much better with the Justice Society of America than with the Superfamily, and works far better with Huntress than Omen. Go back to what worked DC, this Paige experiment isn’t working.
I don't mind her having the El/L logo, it is her family symbol, but maybe make it blue or something to set her apart a bit and fit better with her costume.
Paige tho is so dumb. It's like when Superman decided to "kill" Clark Kent and become a firefighter, "Johnny Clark", however that story actually explored how Clark feels about his identity and responsibility as superman, acknowledging Johnny is just a way for Clark to always be Superman but also that Kent is an important person with needs as well, not just pretending the identity never existed to give him a new name that required some major mental gymnastics to come up with and is way lamer.
@@ProjektTakuYes that’s her family logo, but she isn’t defined by it like the other supers. Star Spangled Kid gave her a gift of a chest emblem made from cosmic energy. She crushed it, angered by the idea of a symbol of the letter “P” in a Superman configuration.
It was soon after that Power Girl went with the open space on her chest. It was her intent for it to prove that she was Power Girl, not Superman's cousin.
@@365partybeau But I'd still be nice if that was represented in her design, and I like how the earth-2 series incorporated it. That is true but honestly that just made her come across as a bully, plus it was pre-the S symbol representing the L's, instead just being Superman's symbol, and it was a random P instead of the crest of her family.
She can still be independent even while wearing the symbol, after all, she's already tied closely with her Superman and the main universe's Kara, the S isn't going to make her an instant copycat.
Well, it's a dynamic, she's defined by not being defined by it. A negation is always a single step away from position, that's why there's no real opposites in this world.
In my mind I like to expand the metaphor of two sides of the same coin, with the two sides of a minting press. You're DEFINED by the press, which may be arbitrated depending on the celebration, so it's not from a genetic origin of who YOU are. But a coin only is a coin when the minting happens. Two sides of the same coin, or the ura-omote, ARE of the same genetic origin. Inescapable. But not visible at the same time.
She could wear the symbol mirrored like an ambulance. Honk honk. And/or on her back, so we ge the cheesy: "it's always facing the place I'm leaving from." But honestly it would just come off as pathetic, lady doth protest too much.
Fun tidbit, I googled "ianus" and google hucked out "itchy anus". Man, hope that's not that thing where AI diagnoses your problems before even any symptoms arise.
2:26 Anyone who is a fan of Nextwave Agents of H.A.T.E. should be extremely familiar with a non-cannon book having an effect on cannon. Well, before the effect became so strong that it was retconned into being cannon, but that's a different rabbit hole.
18:35 so wait... they're making Power Girl smaller boy literally and figuratively? Wow