8000RPM Disaster - What happened?
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 9 фев 2025
- Sick Insurance won't put your engine back together, but it does cover your drag-and-drive ride: sickinsurance.com
Subscribe to Sick The Magazine: www.sickthemag...
Get Sick Merch: www.sickthemag...
1969 Camaro Giveaway: www.sickthemag...
Today we're analyzing what happened to the engine of Sick Seconds 2.0, the world's quickest street car, at the PRO Superstar Shootout Presented By SCAG Power Equipment at Bradenton Motorsports Park. When you're running a street legal Pro Mod this stuff isn't easy, but we'll regroup and get this SMX fixed because we're on the verge of great things.
![Blox Fruits Dragon Rework Update [Full Stream]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/EqDAp8udhm0/mqdefault.jpg)
My grandson got an exhaust valve from a top fuel car on Friday. They took it out after 12 runs. We appreciate your guys showing us your valve train after that in your pits so he could understand how the parts work together.
Hi Tom, I'm not a real engineer, but I've done a lot of mechanical design in a bunch of areas (spacecraft hardware, medical, some automotive on the side), and if the valve that broke is titanium, it will typically have a lower fatigue life than a similar steel version. It will be less tolerant of small surface scratches too (more likely to initiate a crack at that point). So from a "lifing" standpoint, any reciprocating Ti parts should be checked and replaced more frequently than a steel version. This is a gross simplification, but reasonable.
One other thing - from an chemistry standpoint, Ti is more prone to corrosion or intergranular damage from some materials than steel usually is. In military aerospace applications, cadmium and chlorine are kept isolated from titanium parts, so no cad-plated fasteners or tool plating allowed, and chlorine containing cleaners ditto. Not sure if that has any bearing in your case, but it's a good thing to consider. Would be worth a little research to see if there's any other materials that could be risk-enhancers for Ti.
Daymn…that really sux. I’ll bet that made one heck of a racket. Many years ago I dropped a valve on a Honda 125 motorcycle. With a common crank case & transmission, parts got in the tranny and locked up the rear wheel in a turn. Somehow I kept it up. But, wow…what a mess. I never got all the pieces out,because every once in a while I’d hear something grinding up.
Yes they are Titanium valves! They get good life out of them! Can’t run a heavy steel valve in an engine that goes over 9000rpm! Those engines can run 9600 without issues! They can go higher, up around 10000, but that’s when you really need to start cycling parts through them! Lots of Hemis are apart in less than 6 runs 🙄🙄🙄🙄!
@ Welp, I guess we found the guy who works for a valve company. No argument that there's real advantages to using Ti valves for racing, but the drawbacks I mentioned are real. Metallurgy and Chemistry don't care how many emojis you use, facts are facts.
@davidg3944 You're Right. BUT, Also need to mention what everyone's missing. Titanium Parts Need To Have Regular *Ultrasonic Fatigue Crack Detection Tests* Electric Conductivity Crack Detection at least. Catastrophic engine damage from a shallow cup the same material and design of Military Shape Charge Explosives. Speaking from experience fyi.
Your car looks so much better white with those orange stripes I really like that
They are nice except that original Pace Cars never had the stripes continue across the roof.
Steve Morris jinxed ya. He was talking in one of his latest videos about durability and how many runs and drives you’ve put on your engine.
Measuring the rest of your valves & valve train will tell a story. Thanks for sharing all the good & bad
That’s what I’m thinking, check for stretch.
@@stephenlea5765 ^^^ This guy gets it
Maybe just a timed out replacement program on critical parts just like top fuel guys do but obviously based on longer intervals. More expensive but might avoid failures like this
I wish to be as CHILL as you Tom someday
Steve Morris. Talking about this a few days ago, about valves. His valve that gave up, but not Tom's valves that have been going for two years.
2 years is insane for a car running that much power. Although I guess he doesn’t run the car much so maybe 2 years is not that many passes.
Either way, I hope he stops leaving them that long in future.
Ideally Steve would have recommended parts replacement intervals like some other manufacturers do.
A downside of using an immature platform I guess. Not much data on part lifespan.
He said the spring retainer was in that long
I've had wrist pins sticking out of the carburetor before. High horsepower high RPM always finds the weakest link. When you think you get one fixed, the next fuse always pops shortly after. The more fuses you fix the more horsepower you make and then you find another fuse.
Good to see Darrell Gwynn @14.20. He had his accident back when I was a big NHRA fan. I followed all the races, driver points, and mostly the technology in comp eliminator and pro stock. Darrell's looking really well and great seeing him still involved in drag racing!
The stress going through each part in the engines you run is mind boggling. 4 - 5,000 horsepower will find the weak link sooner rather than later. I'm trying to get my head around the valve tulip managing to get into the exhaust on the opposite bank. That deserves a trophy!
Tom said the part ended up in the intake manifold on the other side, not the exhaust.
That's a hell of a participation trophy 🤣
Hopefully you got the car shield exstended warenty 😂 thank you for great video
Warranty claim rejected because Tom didn't prove with Jiffy-Quik-Lube receipts the oil was changed on time ;-)
Over rev / valve bending / breakage
In the prior vid, it was said that the motor hit the rev limiter a few times in the past. If a valve hit the piston, it can be slightly bent but not break. As the valve hammers the seat off center the exposed portion of the stem is seeing bending and eventually the stem breaks.
Tom you said it was 85 degs in FL. today. Here is central Missouri it is 32 degs. Taking about 3 to 5 in of snow Monday evening here. Be so nice to live down there and race every weekend. If I could sell my house I would move to FL. When I had my wreck in 1993 I lost both my legs above the knees. I got into drag racing .
Cylinder swapping is super common, overlap cycle plus once the int valve is broken its a clear path, looking inside the int plenum at wot is really interesting.
I've never seen a motor that broke valvetrain or broke a piston into bits, not fill the intake.
@williamherzog1069 yup
It's amazing what can happen inside an engine when things let go. Saw a Craftsman truck series engine that let go on the back stretch of Daytona back in '08 that had a piston that had swapped holes.
Steve talked about reversion on the intake a while ago in the SMX and other motors. Seems to be part of the induction process on this type of motor.
@@Mltemple8333 ALL engines do this
Don't feel bad Tom. Keep in mind that NASA had all the money, all the scientists, all the engineering, they had everything and they still blew up Space Shuttles.
Yeah, one of those was because they didn't listen to the expert about launching in low temps.
@@warhorse58gt
Exactly 👍
Thats an awesome perspective
@@warhorse58gt Thanks Mr. Professor!
Matrix glitch....Love whatcha your doing!! Sorry for the bad luck your going through however this will lead to much success 🙏🏼
Got to be an smx but anytime you throw that much horsepower at an engine even the best parts can break anything mechanical is prone to failure at some point, I guess what’s a good rule of thumb , I’d say freshen up perhaps after 100 passes or every year depends on cost of parts over cost of major components like heads ,crank , camshaft I’d say rods but I’m guessing those rods are 500.00 a piece but I don’t know !!! I enjoy watching you and Steve Morris the knowledge you guys have wish I had a tenth of that on performance stuff !!!
Thanks so much for putting these videos out later. The BUZZ just keeps going.
13:22 that guy is a drag racer?!
“WHAT NO WAYY”!!
Yep had the same, exhaust valve broke cyc1, then broke intake valve open hole turned in to a pump pushed out the exhaust valve head and chunks of seat into the manifold @9k rpm then sucked debris into every other cyclinder found valve in cyc 3 and all had chunks of valve seat...
When you think Top Fuel tears down the motor after ever run and you are running almost 1/2 the HP's. I think what happened is almost inevitable. Add the Drag and Drive stresses and I think you guys need more frequent tear downs.
Maybe Steve should look into making a overhead cam head, single or double cam and a 4 valve head. He's got the machines to build it and it was done for NASCAR in the 60s but out lawed right away. He could copy a Honda, Mustang, and Sport Bikes, steal a little off each to make it your own. Getting rid of lifters, push rods and rockers seems like a good idea as they are always the weak link.
An 8L Coyote would kill the competition.
Your a good guy Tom thanks for your uploads
Ole Steve is going to be a busy fella
The rest of the cylinders start vacuuming that cylinder. I’ve driven my car home after street racing with a dropped valve and a few cylinders had peppered cylinder heads
Damn the carnage! I would say that the valves just timed out, zero visual signs of damage prior to failure so they should be treated as a disposable wear item and replaced after a set amount of use. Expensive yes but it's a lot better than the outcome of failure. IMO the entire top end valvetrain should be replaced during the refresh from what I've seen on the d&d programs. Frequency issues
That sucks! However it is amazing the strength of the SMX Block, Head and Pistons. I have dropped my share of valves and have never seen both valves broke and the Block and Head still useable and the piston is just beat up Amazing!!!
As your engine program progresses you’ll find what works for you…. The operating conditions for your engine is unique. You have best practices from others, Promod, haul vehicles, pulling a trailer. Cycle time is probably one of your biggest factors. Without some sort of certification”ISO” it’s really hard to track material quality your parts are made of. A lot of R and D to find whats gonna work in the long haul.. Your engine package is less than 10 years old compared to others.
I think the valves Should be changed every year The retainers every 2 years Regardless of how many passes you have on it I think the street miles do more damage that what you think Really sad to see it..
I agree, the valves opening and closing is the main mechanical stress here and miles put a lot of cycles on them.
Sometimes they way they break seems to defy physics. One I tore down years ago had a compression ring in pieces in the pan. The piston and cylinder wall both had no scarring. We put on a new ring and put it back together. I ran it a couple more years. We had it on the street for a few thousand miles before and after so I know it wasn't assembled like that.
Its speculation but the Titanium Exhaust Valve broke 1st. Then took out the Titanium intake valve.
Exhaust valves live a very hard life. Titanium is an Awesome lightweight high strength material. But Titanium Hot Tensile strength is not as good as Inconel 751 or similar high end super stainless sterl materials. Its a complex subject in itself.
I have a set of Manley Hi Temp Orange Titanium Exhaust valves New made for me back in 2005, 2 years ago had Victory 1 make Titanium Intake Valves for me, both sers of Titanium valves for my 1970 Pontiac RAIV V8 engine.
Inconel is a fantastic valve material but its a very heavy dense metal compared to Titanium makes for about X 2 heavier in grams weight.
Steve Morris specs what he thinks is best I am not going to dispute .
Everything has a Fatigue life.
Probably a good idea to carry 1 extra complete assembled cylinder head or a pair. Maybe even a Spare Billet crankshaft. Just like Top Fuel Teams do.
Or have Steve carry extras.
@brracing7861 I'd say likely, exh failed first. Can't be known for certain. What we can assume... 4, almost 5 years of use on titanium valves in this application... too long.
One thing i can say is that you are the Fastest Drag and Drive car for a reason. None of this has been done before so figuring out life cycle on components and wear and tear from street driving the same engine is all being written by guys like you and Steve Morris and I don't doubt that whatever the cause was that you will get it figured out and be back on the track. This is what happens when you push the envelope and all the haters and doubters have one thing in common. Their ass is shaped like their computer chair. Antron Brown is one of the best Top Fuel guys around and he started on motorcycles so he has steel ones! BTW Tom you should throw that Rod and Piston into a Merch order.
Brett Lasala appears to have the quickest drag and drive car here lately.
Pretty much same thing happened to my BBC, broke a valve in number 6 took out the other valve, dual plane manifold so pieces ended up in every cylinder (and damaged each) associated with that plane of the manifold. Basically only thing usable was the crank. It let go at S/F when the checker came out, ended up second.
My guess is metal fatigue. Probably amplified with all the driving you do for the drag and drive events. Sorry to see that happen. I had a BBC do the exact same thing with half the valve on the opposite side of the engine. The other half wedged itself between the side of the piston and cylinder wall.
excellent early content. Nice you 100% know it was a valve and not valvetrain issues.
I love that the simulator guy had no idea who the walrus was
when that fella handed you that trophy i thought of Elton Johns glasses 🤣 thats the Elton Trophy Tom lol..
@08:55 That guy behind y'all. 👈 God bless him. Having a good day, Parkinson's and all.
I retired from the military and care for my veteran Uncle. He's still spry.
Believe you are right, looks like the valve reached its life span . Tough break , sorry TOM
Ill give some armchair engine builder advice. You should deep cryo and WPC treat everything at this level. Add Lubrication Engineers lubricants from front to back. Titanium by nature really doesnt have any give when it goes wrong, could a steel alloy be better on the street?
Great insight to the cars and racing 👍
Murphy will get you every time. Thanks for the explanation Tom
Even Steve Morris, the engine builder, had a valve drop during Sick Week but nowhere as bad as yours went! His just bent like a swans neck but he shut off before any real damage was caused. He put it down to a retainer breaking.
Gotta start documenting your lash distances. I bet you would see some growth of the stems requiring more lash to tighten up over the last 2 years.
Steve explained the harmonic problem with extended street driven rpm's.
Harmonics isn't going to apply to a valve the same way as a spring. The resonant frequency is way too high. But the cycle life of that valve opening and closing over and over again is going to beat them up on the street. Valves aren't that expensive compared to the complete engine. Should replace them yearly at least.
wOW !!! That's wild it went to other side head intake
Noticed the valve guide patrusion of the intake. Looks like the valve stem seized in the guide, piston hit and the carage began
Good luck mate, I’ve seen a similar titanium valve broken like that before,
I’d check all the seats on both heads to make sure they are seated correctly… you do it not the engine builder, .0001 runout on the seat to stem caused to one I saw.
It's always the stuff that you don't think would be an issue that lets you down
I, in no way know what I am talking about in regards to engines of your caliber. But thinking about why the valve parts ended up on the other side of the engine, this is my thought. With the horsepower you are making, the pressure exiting the exhaust has to be pretty powerful. When the valve failed, is it possible that the engine created a backfire through the intake? With the pressure at which that engine is making, could the valve parts have been sucked back up through the intake then pushed back down into the other cylinder? Just a thought?
4:41 from what I know, titanium gets brittle under a lot of heat.
exhaust pulse/back pressure. Generally the exhaust manifold has slightly and in some cases a lot more pressure than the intake, so the pulse off the other cylinders firing shoved it back into the intake. My $.02
This seems to be a common issue with the SMX engine. I’ve followed Steve for years. He makes a great motor. Arguably the best drag and drive motor built today. I’m not calling out the SMX But I have noticed several valve issues. Steve just had a dent valve a month ago
All engines at this power level break parts.
If the valve sticks in the guide it gets broke off by the piston.
Shaking the tires and instant loss of traction could have lead to a u controlled valve event allowing the piston to kiss the valve on the exhaust and that eventually lead to the head falling off
Maybe it's time to try a new power plant the the 481x seems to work better with the hemi head Even Steve is having problems
Can't street drive those engines.
Noonan makes one
@@charlesgodwin4891they all have problems at that level! Cleetus hemi broke after couple passes, it was valve train.
Thanks for sharing. link to the wheel chock when it hits ebay?
That's life in the Big Time!
Wish you could have lined up against a Top Fuel Funny to show people what exactly they are seeing. Would have been a wild seat for you as well.
The valve ended up in the opposite side intake runner due to something called reversion and it's quite often on a blown up motor that you will find pieces of metal in other cylinders on the opposite bank and it's just called reversion even Steve will tell you the same thing
It’s all about flowing big air…. that would be OHC….. there’s this Brett guy….
Good job Tom was wondering are those victory ?
I think Victory is all Steve uses in the SMX engines.
GM had the same problem, LS7 427 had Ti. Intake valves & the would break in the same place.
I never had a titanium valve break but have had and seen many titanium bolts break.
@malbrandow7382 that's where valves break 99% of the time because the majority are manufactured as 2 pieces. The stem and the head are friction welded
Drag and drive is certainly way more difficult to master!!!
Water cooled motors at this level of hp. Is unbelievable!!
We had a limited late model that dropped a valve and destroyed two pistons on the opposite side of
Love what you guys are doing keep up the good work and keep that pedal to the floor
Maybe try a set of cryogenic treated titanium valves, we have cryo treated trans parts in some of our builds for big power diesel crap.
Sick Tequila: Get Sick tonight, not in the morning!
Every thing has its lifecycle , it came to its end, The amount of seat pressure you guys run on them, there lucky to last long as they do…
I would definitely have the crankshaft checked for any problems the crankshaft can be twisted or compromised in some way fingers crossed it is still o k
Tom Bailey's brother was at South Georgia Motorsports Park
I swear that the guy who gave you the trophy looked like Warren Johnson!
WJ all the way baby ! ! !
Harmonics at certain RPM's??? Steve just did a really good video on this phenomenon...
Did you speak to Steve Morris about the valve? He just had a valve-failure.
@@nlo114 Steve had a retainer fail not the valve, his intake valve bent and not break!
😬
Steve jinxed you lol.. was literally just talking about your engine in his video the other day .. talking about his s shaped valve and someone stealing it from his pit area. 😂.. he got lucky his valve always cracked and a nanosecond from looking like yours. He was talking about harmonics at certain rpms breaking the valve springs /valve train in the d&d cars
Usually the streetdrive shouldnt really affect the lifespan of the rods themself, since the stress at 3-4k rpm and barely any boost+timing which also equals lower engine temps is way below their designed load window. In other words, unlike running the engine on a pass, street driving such a beefy rod, it should be way below the threshold for plastic deformation which is combined with heat a big part of their material fagitude.
For streetdrives i would rather be concerned with bearrings and valvetrain since dedicated race engines are using different clearances than street engines, increasing wear/runningtime in many cases.
Definitely a disadvantage for you, and Steve Morris.
Being in Michigan! Any race car season is short in Michigan..
😊
When the stats are aligned....
What happened to the Nomad Dennis Taylor was supposed to build for you, is it finished?
Last I heard Dennis talk about it, he said the project was on hiatus. Because Tom needed to source at lot of parts, but was to busy with other stuff right now. I do remember them earlier in the project mention some parts needed had shown to be crazy backordered.
Keep on keeping on Tom respect to you and your team watching from England ✌️🫡😎👍🍺🍻
I know that titanium does not like being heated up and cooled down alot. Titanium exhausts will crack in the welds after some time. I see that its the exhaust valve that broke. Can it be an material issue after some time/years of beeing heated up and then cooled down after the pass?😊
Just had the same thing happen to mine last night🤦♂️🤪
I’m no engineer but I’m convinced that a lot of problems like this are caused by tire shake. Think about how your teeth hurt after violent tire shake. Imagine what the valve is normally doing at 9000rpms and then add tire shake. It can’t be pretty.
you got damn lucky that was not worse than it was that part of valve could have very well went threw the other side and wrecked it too
Who would have thought a Toyota could win in nitro? Mind blown, lol. Hope your luck improves soon, Tom. Thanks for the video.
Yeah and the ugly “Toyota” bodied FC’s…
Heat ….. Tom …….Heat is the ultimate killer in my very humble opinion.😂
People better watch out for Clay at the Gator Nationals him and the capco boys!
let the good times roll !
This may be a dumb question but are you required to make the drive with the race engine or could drop a stock small block in and make the drive then swap the race engine in it ?
Same engine..replacing a damaged engine is allowed, what you're suggesting isn't...besides, the logistics would be insane.
Even if you made an engine swap as "plug n play" as possible, it'd cost an extra three-four hours daily to do two engine swaps every day...there's already too few hours in the day for a drag n drive crew, do you really wanna see what Tom looks like with NO beauty sleep???
🤣😂🤣😂🤣
@ fair point
Talk about parts swapping holes. Good lord that must have been violent inside the motor. Bet that didn’t sound too good either.
Now the big question is how much of the motors guts have to be removed and sent to the scrap yard?
Participation trophy, It will be on ebay tomorrow. I like your style.
Working out the life of components with what you do is a nightmare for sure. Guess all you can really do is count the runs and replace parts on the schedule of the promods. I can't imagine the road miles would put any really strain on the engine and I'm sure the promod boys err on the side of caution so that would make up the slack.
You know, now Steve can replace the valve retainers like he wanted to. 😅
Harmonics, reduced stroke, spline drive ATI damper, I don’t know if you can run belt drive after all the time he spent on gear drive. Less lift, soft valve events, less spring, less valvetrain mass, learn cycle times and replace on time. Bottom end seems happy, valvetrain is not. Also titanium valves are brutal. Inconel exhaust morer betterer?
Looks like maybe a “Coyote” is the answer😂😂😂😂
SMX is why!!!!
Last time I saw Antron he was on a bike. Guess it's been a minute since I followed NHRA...LOL
Maybe setup a number of runs then NDT valves retainers and other parts.