"Necky's more defined chine gives it a bit of a needle balance point when it's up on edge and once you cross that line, it will definitely punish you". Easily my favorite line in the entire video Scootchels. As the proud new poppa of a Chatham 17, I have to say that I greatly appreciate that fine line you referenced there when making that point. Life is too short to NOT live on the edge, but it most certainly helps to know exactly where that specific line is when pushing the envelope. Great video for anyone considering one of these two fine kayaks.
Great review. Love the side by side comparisons. Need more of those! I've had my Chatham 17 RM for a couple years and it's tons of fun in the rough stuff. I have no problems staying with my friends Tempest 17 and often have to wait for him to catch up.
Thank you for taking the time to make this video review/comparison. Although I'm a long-time paddler, I'm looking for that "next level" kayak that I can take multi-day touring. Keep up the good work, and thanks again!
I've used both boats. They are different but both have their good points. I have no negative criticism of either one. I do fit better and I'm more comfortable for long periods in the Wilderness Systems.
Great vid! Kewl upgrade to your site as well. Believe it or not I was looking at one of these in a 15'...for next season. You may remember me as the guy who bought two Riots, and traded you the 15' tandem...Both Riots still Rioting all over the place: Moving, Class 0.5, lakes, ponds...and once right down the middle of our street!...bad drainage + big rain.
My 17’ Necky Chatham had Wilderness System hatch covers and back band. Old Town even sent me a coil of the original poly material to plastic weld a hole. You really need original formula plastic to get a good weld. You couldn’t even see the repair! That was the boat I took 8 miles during a small craft advisory. It was ballasted down good with camping gear. It was really stable. Tho the headwind was so strong I only made 2mph.
excellent review, i own a tempest pro 170, it is the kayak to beat in this segment, unmatched comfort and spot on ergonomics (you completely forget you re in a kayak or even paddling - yes, that good), it s the toyota of kayaks, might still get a chatham or similar for something more playful
Great review and I agree with most of what you have to say about the two kayaks. We currently own 4 Tempests (165 poly,170 poly, 170Pro, 180Pro) and have owned a Chatham 17 that was traded last summer for the T165. My wife and I have paddled the two side by side and both of us prefer the T170 hands down over the Chatham 17. The additional hull rocker of the Chatham is quite obvious when looking at the two boats sitting next to each other but from my experience there is not that much difference in turning speed when edged aggressively. However, there is almost no comparison in the comfort factor between the two. The Necky seat and back band is horrible in comparison and you have to add your own hip padding. I owned and paddled a Necky Elaho composite for years and was never comfortable in it either as it used the same outfitting as the Chathams. Other than the seat/back band the Chatham is a great boat but I still far prefer the Tempest. I have personally owned a NDK Romany, Valley Avocet FG, Impex Mystic, CD Gulfstream, CD Squamish, Valley Aquanaut LV, CD Extreme, Necky Elaho, and currently a CD Cypress Kevlar. Of all these kayaks I like the Tempest the best.
What is the size of the paddler that uses the 180 pro? I sat in a 170 and 180 and thought the 180 was much better for me, but their suggestions based on my height/weight make me question it a bit.
Dane Haroldson The recommended paddler size for the T180 is 210-250lbs. However, my wife (5'4" and 175lbs) is the one who chose the T180 because of it's larger cockpit opening which allows her to get into it easily with her congenital hip anomaly that limits her flexibility. I'm 5'9" and 160lbs. and, though a bit big for me, the T180 still paddles great. In fact the cockpit isn't as big feeling as the CD Gulfstream (used to own one). The one issue with lighter paddlers in the T180 is in very windy conditions it can be a handful unless you put some ballast in it to lower the waterline which makes it track better.
That makes me a little more comfortable with it. I am about 5'11'' and about 200 lbs now. Although can fluctuate from 180-220. When I saw in a 170 I could pull my knee up with only about an inch or two of clearance. The 180 seemed a lot more comfortable for me despite me being kind of in the 170's range. I actually have a chatham 17 right now but would like a more comfortable cockpit/seating configuration, as well as some better storage. I liked the WS Tempest Pro and also Sat in a Valley Etain I kind of liked, but the Tempest seating seemed to be a deciding factor. If anyone has experience with these lines, any advice is appreciated.
Dane Haroldson I've not paddled the composite Chatham but I do know the poly Chatham 17 is considerably roomier in the cockpit than the Tempest 170. I've personally owned a FG Valley Avocet and a poly Valley Aquanaut LV and like the Tempests better than either of them for the paddling I mostly do. The newer Valley kayaks are definitely more comfortable to sit for long periods of time than the older NDK Romany and Explorer I've owned. I've not paddled the Etain but the Aquanaut tracked very well but took some serious edging to make it turn. In comparison, the Tempests turn very easily without much effort and if edged hard with a brace you can get the stern to skid across the water.
@@directorstu Personally, I’d start with the cockpit outfitting. Get the fit right with the legs and seat, then you can customize the hip pads and knee braces. Next, it’s safety and operations. Replace any bad bungees, decklines or bad hatches. Also check the bulkheads for waterproofness. The skegs can be troublesome, too, but if it’s working smoothly you can leave as-is. From there, it’s the standards: PDF, paddle, dry bags, rescue float, throw rope. What else am I missing?
@@Scootchels thanks. This all makes sense. I've been playing with the seat and foot settings. Wqs a bit worried about lower back support but happier now. Skeg works well. Bulkheads and hatches look fine. Got a pfd Need the throw line and a paddle. Will buy a cheapish one and make a Greenland wooden one. Need a spray deck so I can get out in some white water.
I just bought the RM Chatham 17 last month. Great boat. Kinda wished id seen your video first. I ruled out the Ws thinking it was slower do to width. Guess I was wrong. Love my Necky though.
Awsome review! I'm hoping to step up to a newer yak vs my older Sealution II and Perception Sea Lion Shadow. I'm still new to touring yaks and you a have shown me that there are more differences than what meets the eye between yaks.
+SailingandSuch Thanks, I'm glad it was helpful. I've paddled both of your boats - the Sealution II and the Shadow. While I agree that there have been some design improvements since the Sealution redefined the space, the Shadow is still a lovely thing. Happy paddling!
That's cool, sounds like you've been in just about every yak huh? I'm mainly looking to get into a newer model for the newer features like easier to open and close hatches, better sealing hatches, day hatch, more comfy seats maybe some other cool design features that are convenient.
Can I combine scuba and long distance touring in a sea kayak? I like the Necky but can I also use it for scuba or fishing when I want to. I only want one boat with performance first for touring or rough seas.
If you want to combine SCUBA and sea kayaking I would look for high end sit on top there is one I have seen one with 425 lbs capacity (cant remember name), when I was 220 lbs I got to try a Chatham 17 and I had no free board, the added weight from SCUBA gear will nearly sink any sit in boat except maybe the Kruger Canoes.
"Necky's more defined chine gives it a bit of a needle balance point when it's up on edge and once you cross that line, it will definitely punish you". Easily my favorite line in the entire video Scootchels. As the proud new poppa of a Chatham 17, I have to say that I greatly appreciate that fine line you referenced there when making that point. Life is too short to NOT live on the edge, but it most certainly helps to know exactly where that specific line is when pushing the envelope. Great video for anyone considering one of these two fine kayaks.
I had a RM Chatham17 for many years. Yeah, a good brace was sometimes needed and yes, a good honest assessment of these two fine boats.
Great review. Love the side by side comparisons. Need more of those!
I've had my Chatham 17 RM for a couple years and it's tons of fun in the rough stuff. I have no problems staying with my friends Tempest 17 and often have to wait for him to catch up.
Thank you for taking the time to make this video review/comparison. Although I'm a long-time paddler, I'm looking for that "next level" kayak that I can take multi-day touring. Keep up the good work, and thanks again!
I've used both boats. They are different but both have their good points. I have no negative criticism of either one. I do fit better and I'm more comfortable for long periods in the Wilderness Systems.
Great vid! Kewl upgrade to your site as well. Believe it or not I was looking at one of these in a 15'...for next season. You may remember me as the guy who bought two Riots, and traded you the 15' tandem...Both Riots still Rioting all over the place: Moving, Class 0.5, lakes, ponds...and once right down the middle of our street!...bad drainage + big rain.
My 17’ Necky Chatham had Wilderness System hatch covers and back band.
Old Town even sent me a coil of the original poly material to plastic weld a hole.
You really need original formula plastic to get a good weld. You couldn’t even see the repair!
That was the boat I took 8 miles during a small craft advisory. It was ballasted down good with camping gear. It was really stable.
Tho the headwind was so strong I only made 2mph.
excellent review, i own a tempest pro 170, it is the kayak to beat in this segment, unmatched comfort and spot on ergonomics (you completely forget you re in a kayak or even paddling - yes, that good), it s the toyota of kayaks, might still get a chatham or similar for something more playful
Great review and I agree with most of what you have to say about the two kayaks. We currently own 4 Tempests (165 poly,170 poly, 170Pro, 180Pro) and have owned a Chatham 17 that was traded last summer for the T165. My wife and I have paddled the two side by side and both of us prefer the T170 hands down over the Chatham 17. The additional hull rocker of the Chatham is quite obvious when looking at the two boats sitting next to each other but from my experience there is not that much difference in turning speed when edged aggressively. However, there is almost no comparison in the comfort factor between the two. The Necky seat and back band is horrible in comparison and you have to add your own hip padding. I owned and paddled a Necky Elaho composite for years and was never comfortable in it either as it used the same outfitting as the Chathams. Other than the seat/back band the Chatham is a great boat but I still far prefer the Tempest. I have personally owned a NDK Romany, Valley Avocet FG, Impex Mystic, CD Gulfstream, CD Squamish, Valley Aquanaut LV, CD Extreme, Necky Elaho, and currently a CD Cypress Kevlar. Of all these kayaks I like the Tempest the best.
What is the size of the paddler that uses the 180 pro? I sat in a 170 and 180 and thought the 180 was much better for me, but their suggestions based on my height/weight make me question it a bit.
Dane Haroldson The recommended paddler size for the T180 is 210-250lbs. However, my wife (5'4" and 175lbs) is the one who chose the T180 because of it's larger cockpit opening which allows her to get into it easily with her congenital hip anomaly that limits her flexibility. I'm 5'9" and 160lbs. and, though a bit big for me, the T180 still paddles great. In fact the cockpit isn't as big feeling as the CD Gulfstream (used to own one). The one issue with lighter paddlers in the T180 is in very windy conditions it can be a handful unless you put some ballast in it to lower the waterline which makes it track better.
That makes me a little more comfortable with it. I am about 5'11'' and about 200 lbs now. Although can fluctuate from 180-220. When I saw in a 170 I could pull my knee up with only about an inch or two of clearance. The 180 seemed a lot more comfortable for me despite me being kind of in the 170's range.
I actually have a chatham 17 right now but would like a more comfortable cockpit/seating configuration, as well as some better storage. I liked the WS Tempest Pro and also Sat in a Valley Etain I kind of liked, but the Tempest seating seemed to be a deciding factor. If anyone has experience with these lines, any advice is appreciated.
Dane Haroldson I've not paddled the composite Chatham but I do know the poly Chatham 17 is considerably roomier in the cockpit than the Tempest 170. I've personally owned a FG Valley Avocet and a poly Valley Aquanaut LV and like the Tempests better than either of them for the paddling I mostly do. The newer Valley kayaks are definitely more comfortable to sit for long periods of time than the older NDK Romany and Explorer I've owned. I've not paddled the Etain but the Aquanaut tracked very well but took some serious edging to make it turn. In comparison, the Tempests turn very easily without much effort and if edged hard with a brace you can get the stern to skid across the water.
Is there a noticeable difference in performance between the tempest 170 poly and pro?
Very thorough and professional review bro, I learned a tip or two on doing a good review from this.
Just bought a used T170. Its fair to say I'm quite excited
Nice choice! Enjoy.
@@Scootchels thanks. Any recommended mods?
@@directorstu Personally, I’d start with the cockpit outfitting. Get the fit right with the legs and seat, then you can customize the hip pads and knee braces. Next, it’s safety and operations. Replace any bad bungees, decklines or bad hatches. Also check the bulkheads for waterproofness. The skegs can be troublesome, too, but if it’s working smoothly you can leave as-is. From there, it’s the standards: PDF, paddle, dry bags, rescue float, throw rope. What else am I missing?
@@Scootchels thanks. This all makes sense. I've been playing with the seat and foot settings. Wqs a bit worried about lower back support but happier now. Skeg works well. Bulkheads and hatches look fine. Got a pfd Need the throw line and a paddle. Will buy a cheapish one and make a Greenland wooden one. Need a spray deck so I can get out in some white water.
I have had the Zephyr 160 for a year and half and picked up the Tempest 170 used about a year ago. I like the Zephyr a lot but love the Tempest.
Brilliantly on point. Thanks 👍
I just bought the RM Chatham 17 last month. Great boat. Kinda wished id seen your video first. I ruled out the Ws thinking it was slower do to width. Guess I was wrong. Love my Necky though.
Great review. the Tempest 170 was on my short list. It just moved up a little.
Thanks, Larry. Not sure what else you’re looking at, but you won’t hate a Tempest.
Awsome review! I'm hoping to step up to a newer yak vs my older Sealution II and Perception Sea Lion Shadow. I'm still new to touring yaks and you a have shown me that there are more differences than what meets the eye between yaks.
+SailingandSuch Thanks, I'm glad it was helpful. I've paddled both of your boats - the Sealution II and the Shadow. While I agree that there have been some design improvements since the Sealution redefined the space, the Shadow is still a lovely thing. Happy paddling!
That's cool, sounds like you've been in just about every yak huh? I'm mainly looking to get into a newer model for the newer features like easier to open and close hatches, better sealing hatches, day hatch, more comfy seats maybe some other cool design features that are convenient.
Being 6’5, do you think I’d fit alright in the Tempest 170?
Can I combine scuba and long distance touring in a sea kayak? I like the Necky but can I also use it for scuba or fishing when I want to. I only want one boat with performance first for touring or rough seas.
If you want to combine SCUBA and sea kayaking I would look for high end sit on top there is one I have seen one with 425 lbs capacity (cant remember name), when I was 220 lbs I got to try a Chatham 17 and I had no free board, the added weight from SCUBA gear will nearly sink any sit in boat except maybe the Kruger Canoes.
Put a P&H Cetus in the mix. Lovely boat
I agree! Lovely boat.
Great review would love it if you had talked money