Aliens did have a signature ability - they had abilities! It's easy to forget that enemies with procs were not always a thing, and while nowadays all traits have them, the aliens were the frontrunners.
@@racket804 give very little money? What about mistress celebdoodle? Ursamajor? Cyberhorn? Mawth? I.M. Face? Galactic overseer Nyandam? Bun bun symbiote?
@@Blaze_B.C. face, moth bun bun are also floating, so they give big money. Big units like nyandam, horn, and bear always give you good money, but the alien versions give even less.
Extremely good and complete analysis, very very well done. It's insane how badly behemoths were implemented and basically singlehandedly begun the trend of enemies with obscene amount of health for no good reason and extremely monotonous gameplay. When people ask help in behemoth stages, you could suggest using 5 slots of research combo (or 3 slots for research and 2 for attack), 1 or 2 meatshield, cancan, maglev, and courier, and it would unironically work 90% of the time. Sleep as hell. Also I would say I disagree on 2 things, 1 being behemoth visual design and 2 being zombie reception. Definitely personal but I genuinely really like Behemoth designs as they reflect Monster Hunter creatures, and imo they did a great job replicating these monsters into battle cats style. Darkjo and Ahirujo are similar because they're based off of monsters of the same family, Yian Garuga and Yian Kutku, while Magamojoe is a bit different since its based off Kuluyaku. And regards of Zombies, I don't think they're necessarily badly received by the community. Outbreaks was badly implemented but I don't think that really makes people not like the trait. From my experience, people disliked zombie simply because it shakes the meta massively due to burrow destroying a lot of uber spammers. Which, in my opinion, is a good thing. Zombie is one of my favorite trait due to how insanely different they play, but unfortunately they made Holy Blast and then its downhill from there... but thats a different story. Overall, extremely well written and well edited video. I think some of the things you talk about here are too off-topic and could be made more concise or even unnecessary to be in the video, but otherwise it's a very good analysis!
Probably the worst thing about behemoths for me is how they made units that specifically counter the behemoths - luza obliterates magamojoe and mushroom obliterates Rajakong. Just removes the benefit of collecting lots of units over time and forces you to always use a specific unit
Regarding about design choice of Behemoth enemy. This is actually problem with PONOS translation. In JP version, Behemoth is called "超獣" that roughly means "Superbeast". If we want to make it as accurate as possible, the best possible translation would be "Monster" or "Beast". This translation would fit more because all Behemoth enemy is pictured as fierce variant of pre-existing enemy and also a direct homage to Monster Hunter game. In this context, Behemoth translation choice doesn't make sense. Especially when we already have Colossus/Baron for big-enemy arch-type.
Hopefully they nerf him to acceptable stats somewhere in the near future but then yet again everyone is going to whine and cry because corrier cat got nerfed
Not only courier, behemoth slayer ability itself is stupidly bad and was(and is) a horrible addition for the game's balancing. And the fact that ponos instead of solving this problem, just add a new hyperboosted enemy with a new cat to completely counter it(mushroom and rajakong, luza and the relic duche) , makes this even worse
@@derrickhageman1969 2 things could happen here: nerf courier, everyone whines but behemoths stats go back to normal, or dont nerf him and everyone whines, and most behemoths get insane stats, making courier almost necessary
@@voidgamer7122It kind of feels like what might've occured with angels if they didn't get the anti-floating immunity, though if it were to be applied in a similar way, they probably could reduce the enemies back to around their original stats and a slight buff to behemoth slayer to compensate for no longer being able to double dip on traits/subtraits.
Amazing analysis of the two traits. Aku enemies were definitely a fun addition to the game that made some rather bland enemy variants actually interesting to fight, such as Fallen Bear and Le'Behemoth but man Behemoths could have been executed so much better. I love that most of the Behemoth enemies are based on Monster Hunter enemies (even if I never played any of the games) can lead to some very cool designs like Scissorex. The issue with Behemoth enemies imo is like how you said it leads to over centralization of the Behemoth meta to the point where only a couple of Behemoth Slayers are even worth using, like Courier and Mushroom. Courier definitely played a big part to messing up how PONOS treated Behemoth afterwards. Hazuku is the biggest example, as a backliner with that much damage AND surge can sometimes make him straight up unfair to fight. For those who have played Birth of True Man, you would know. Behemoth Stones I feel wouldn't be as much of an issue if some units didn't have such a high cost. Cactus Cat is probably one of the worst offenders of the amount of stones needed. While on the topic of stone evolutions, the issue with them could be solved by allowing you play the stages multiple times a day so it doesn't take ages to get any of the true forms. I have been grinding out the Behemoth Stone stages almost daily on two of the 3 map available and currently only have Courier, Catarzan, Mushroom, Radical, Haniwa, Supercar, Armored Firefly, and all of the UL true forms outside of Luza. When 12.0 first came out in Japan, I grinded stones to get all of the UL true forms outside of Luza and even when the update was released to the other versions, I only just got all of the stones needed for the 4 other UL true forms. I got to say well done on this analysis!
PONOS on the office like: "Yeah bro let's make a FARMING stage that you can only clear ONCE per day but requires up to 20 fucking clears for a single true form to make it so that players aproaching the end of UL or returning players that stopped playing for a bit are time gated for a fucking MONTH (if not more) to be able to get to experience the end game content" On a more serious note my biggest problem with behemoth is the fact that PONOS is just giving it so much focus and spotlight in the recent updates, like I didn't really hate behemoth stuff on release (other than behemoth stone farming), I knew it wasn't a super interesting addition but I just thought "it's just a sub trait like colossus, it's not gonna be super relevant aside from it's dedicated stages", but now we are into 9 months of behemoth focused updates and SPECIALLY, Legends Zero seems that it's going to be heavily focused on behemoth, I'm really worried about how good and fun end game content and Legends Zero as a whole is going to be in the future
I agree heavily. wanna know how to fix this crap? make the three stages permanent stages, or rotating like the basic grow stages, and just make them recover a bit after say, 3 clears. also, remove the stupid building materials. nobody in their right mind is doing behemoth stuff before maxing out cannons. for crying out loud I've beaten Gappra 10 times and I've gotten 2 stones, that's 20% of me even getting a stone let alone the one I need. that means I'd need to do it 100 times aka 3 freaking months to evolve one of my like 7 egg units. its a nightmare farming stage and I think the only reason they did it is they had flashbacks to people spam farming Cyber's revenge for easy cat tickets and decided "Nope, put every lock and gate on this thing and throw away the key, lets milk this sucker". safe to say, I hate the farming for stones, I've beaten cyclones with less hassle than this.
Here's an idea: what if the cat army found an uncharted area with the behemoths in them, and had to defend their base from behemoths instead of attacking other bases? In order to win you would have to maybe to things like "kill x amount of wild doges" or something like that? Awesome video and great analysis, keep up the good work!
Everything about this video is facts, i really hope behemoths get a blanket fix before ponos goes too deep with them. RNG and busted stats based enemies make for some of the most boring and unfair stages I’ve played in a long time
I also think that not enough time was given between traits. Whereas when zombie was implemented we did not get relics until after SoL was over, we got aku and a couple of updates behemoth, which was not handled as a real trait and thus led to the balance issues noted on the video
*Me find something to listen while editing video* btw pretty good analysis by far I'm somewhat ok with Behemoth concept because it gives us Courier which make everything easier... a lot easier that make me worried. Courier ended up being one of the most used units for every player which is the exact same as Dasli case when it came out (except that it's free unit). This absolute broke the balance of early to mid-game which I'm not impress about. As you said, it makes the memorable stage that I love when I play 5-6 years ago become unmemorable. I only hype on Behemoth update only because of the design because it's MonHun reference and it's the franchise the I play the most in my entire life. I'll not going to give my opinion on Behemoth power scaling because my unit is uncomparable to others. In the perspective perspective of grinder, Behemoth Stone is nightmare for us since it's limited farmable resource. Even though, I can still farm all of them whenever I want (with a power of Dark Magik) but it still annoying to do.
Awesome video, good job I feel kinda bad because this is the BC content that's worth watching, but it ends up getting overshadowed by BCU bullshit Hopefully this and your other videos eventually get more attention
@@Gastro-enterite-en-imax battle cats ultimate, it's basically modded battle cats. The most viewed videos of battle cats usually are for some reason just videos of overpowered modded units, spamming overpowered units, and the very rare cool modded unit that children that watch the videos think is real
If I remember correctly, the original translation for behemoth enemies were beast enemies, and I don't know why they didn't keep that. It fits the designs so much better, and we already have colossal enemies, so why make another subtype referencing size?
Absolutely loved this video, extremely good commentary, I really enjoyed listening to this, please keep making more content and I will keep supporting you!
Fantastic analysis. 11:20 Strangely enough, this is a very common pitfall I've seen plenty of times in different kinds of games, my mind immediately goes to Afterbirth and Dead Cells, the former of which noticed that late bosses like Blue Baby and the Lamb were getting melted by solid runs and decided to make sure Hush and Ultra Greed (and Delirium later on) soaked up a tedious amount of damage not only generally but because of automatically boosting their health based on your attack. It's not exactly hard to guess why this didn't fly all too well and why we all remember Dogma so much more. The latter had a massive trouble in making enemies later on feel different from early stages, so this happened mostly from affixes and general weapon issues, late game enemies soak up such an unreasonable amount of damage that you have to constantly worry about crit conditions and affix setups, despite the fact that the game doesn't want you committing to one weapon, meaning you'll likely be wasting a lot of weapons and get stuck dealing with spongey foes left to right while you painfully watch your timer go up. It's kind of a shame that this kind of make or break pitfall is generally difficult to avoid, and that Ponos likely won't patch any of this but here's to hoping more devs learn from these kinds of design struggles.
wasn't expecting to see an isaac player here but hell yeah, balancing new content around broken things that have been implemented instead of making the broken things weaker is never good
I think Ponos should be less hesitant to change aspects of the game. Usually if they make an underwhelming update, they usually push it under the rug somewhat (i.e, talent orbs) or try to fix it via additions (i.e behemoth). I get why they are more hesitant to do this as if they were to potentially nerf a gacha unit that someone spent a lot of money on to get, there can be some illegality issues there, but for units like courier I don’t see why they don’t just strip it of it’s behemoth slayer ability. It’s perfectly fine without it and would still be one of the better counters to behemoth red duche anyway
It seems they are finally taking a good step with how PONOS is implementing the Sage sub-trait. Hard to counter, but not outlandishly hard, and most units are usable (except CC, which is kinda the main gimmick.)
I don’t really think that nerfing a unit would be a legal issue. If someone did spend a lot of money on a Gacha unit and they nerfed it, then the unit was probably WAYY to op for its rarity. (This case courier cat) I mean, you took the gamble and spent money to get a certain gacha and it happened to get nerfed. Your fault, however if it was removed then yeah some legal issues would arise. Pretty sure they are allowed to modify their product due to you not actually owning it directly. And honestly they should just make courrier do less damage, and make some other cats that require behemoth stones be actually good against behemoths, (bride cat, exorcist, etc) it would actually make it interesting instead of just spamming courier and meat shields.
Well, seeing as PONOS's new idea of resolving a unit's problems is by hiding the patch behind lv60 super talents (Kuu), I don't expect courier or any of the egg units to be fixed any time soon... All they have to do is nerf courier's attack stat a small bit and allow CC eggs to affect any B-unit, albeit make it weaker on non trait-target units so its not more power creep.
Great video! I will say that I do have a soft spot for behemoths (I'm a monster hunter addict and I've been catered to) but they really could have been implemented better. Some of the more recent pterowl stages in particular have just felt like I'm brute forcing it over 10 minutes.
Despite not struggling on both behemoth and aku, I just find behemoth kind of boring. When playing behemoth stages, it feels like I am just tapping buttons to kill enemies with no meaning. Aku is different however as it changes core gameplay. From what I have written I can conclude that even if you do not struggle on behemoths, it won't make the game interesting as Ponos doesn't really introduce anything new. Same play style with no new changes (actually the playstyle does change however not in a good way. Cc is now non existent against behemoths with the only way to beat them being brute force. )
fighting aku makes you time your units and think about what to send out. fighting behemoth enemies makes you feel like you're chipping away at a wall for 5 minutes
I hate the enemy, anything with a shield and high pushing power is a piece of RNG shit (the akuhemoth sloth is fine because the shield works well for a passive backliner that ponos wants to die last), the whole point of pushers is they're meant to have some kind of weakness (many knockbacks, low health, high money drop, CC susceptibility, single target, exploitable trait, ec.) and guess what? Shit like Fallen Bear and marmon have *NONE* of these weaknesses, because they have a shield totaling up to 5x their max health, preventing proper knockbacks and inflating the enemy's health to be worse than the average behemoth enemy! And the shield piercing units are either gacha pulls or single target, and tend to be an RNG hellhole! It's like needing to have critical hitters, except the only thing it accomplishes is overcoming one aspect of an overpowered pusher! I'm very sick of trying to brute force these shit enemies because all I have access to is evolved form aku researcher and some very good midrangers AKA jizo + courier (which can still barely hold off condemned pengs, let alone fallen bears and shit)
Awesome video!! You have a lot of knowledge and explain it all really well! I'm really happy from having you making videos for the Battle Cats Community!
If the owl didn't have a blindspot i wouldn't bother trying to fight it Also beating the whole aku realm before unlocking cactus because I never get yellow rocks to drop, i have done every single behemoth stage and grinded the two that can drop yellows every time they show up, but since the update I have gotten just 2 of them
Very well worded. I always knew that something was up with Behemoths that I didn’t like, but I couldn’t quite put my finger on it until watching this. Very well done Also I thought that Behemoths were referencing Kirby and the Forgotten Land, since they were originally translated as Beasts, but no :(
I forgot if I left a comment here already but this video is so well done. I have seen it at least 3 times since last summer and about to view it for the 4th. Methinks that with all the behemoth stuff out now, it has improved a little. But it won't be able to fix what it has done, and it is the reason why I have courier cat doing the 'ah eto bleh' face drawn in my phone.
Really well made analysis video. Aku was implemented so thoughtfully so behemoth completely dropping the ball was pretty disappointing, although with the reception it has gotten I feel that PONOS will take some sort of option I also really love the analysis of Aku on the thematic side, I feel the visuals and themes of battle cats aren't talked about that much despite how important it is to the game's charm. The analysis of alien and zombie were also really interesting, although personally I really like the implementation of zombies, aside from the huge difficult gap between the normal stages and the outbreak stages Behemot trait as a whole is pretty bad, but I think Courier and behemoth stones are the worst inclusions. Courier is just a horribly designed unit, and introduction of more variety in farmable material just feels lame
This feels like something I would talk about in vc with the only other irl friend who likes Battle Cats I honestly really enjoy Behemoths as a whole, they gave us some of the most powerful cats, albeit being extremely difficult to beat. I simply think that enemies being extremely strong isnt necessarily a bad thing, as the stronger enemies begin to appear the further you grind Behemoth Stones, and therefore you'd have the necessary units to beat them. Basically like unlocking anti-Aku is necessary for a lot of the later stages of Aku Realms/Aku Advent stages. But I do agree that Behemoths were badly implemented to the game, tho. They could've polished the concept a lot better so they were better received by the community. I enjoyed this video a lot!
One last thing, behemoth also means "monstrous". The designs are meant to make the enemies look non-tamed, as the lore of the game originally stated that countries were sending their respective animals to fight the cat army lol
Behemoth stages were just straight up "Wild dogs will mess you up bad", meanwhile I have ZERO anti Behemoth units and its just trying to get red stones to evolve a courier cat. And that feeling, is not a good feeling. Compared to having a barrier breaking unit ready to go for Cosmos or Aku in at least my Fencer Cat. Then expanding on it with other units as when I need them. Whereas these Behemoth stages are just "You lose" or "Its a grindfest to deal enough damage" where I have to just meatshield and hit things hard and pray. And yep its Can Can and meatshields. Then wait a million years to win. Its stages that feel bad to lose your energy on when their difficulty star is placed against others. It doesn't feel like a puzzle like other stages do feel like.
I think they have a road map for aku stuff ready, but Someone Get baby rage mad about Their "super cool Beast/Behemoth Trait" was rejected so they somehow manage to conviced the highers up to make the Team focus on it instead
Honestly, i think they just rushed with behemoths. They should have focused more on akus and take more time making behemoths because they could have been such a good implementation. "Recently" behemoth content almost completely shadowed aku content and it's so sad because in each update behemoths just get somehow worse . I think if they focused on akus and then took time making behemoths , it would have been much better instead of releasing units like courier and bad implementations like behemoth slayer Edit : amazing video btw, it's 34 minutes of straight up facts
Looking back on akus after behemoths ended their culling stages and the subsequent brainwashed true forms really reminds me of the comparison between realm of carnage and aku reincarnation. They are like the manic cats of mid game with some interesting support. Also I’d like to point out that behemoth slayer most likely came from the the magi madoka and evangelion collabs with their XL collabs that allow their tougher bosses to be beatable it’s fine for a collab to have broken enemies with almost 10M health. I hope we can see a follow up when possibly am realms chapter 2 drops in a few months
i hate how commonly enemies have immunities. it's basically the games way to artificially force you to grind for more (usually new units) to specifically counter behemoths and nothing else
Stone farming is incredibly stupid. They make it so annoying to farm them and unless u get a hunters map you aren't guaranteed any particular color. I'll go out of my way to play all 3 stages for the day and only get red stones or purple. Blue green and yellow are incredibly rare even tho I'm playing stages with the best chances for them. Rainbow stones u can play up to 3 times and if they added that to the other stone stages it would be nicer. Late game players suffer to evolve true forms because of this mechanic and if they're worried that low level players will get powerful units...well lock the content behind a skill check like having access to UL first
I think the sub-trait concept has the potential to be done very well if the enemy units of the next sub trait have an interesting mechanism and cat units used against them don't target regular traits. Like if there's a sub-trait enemy, it can be countered by cats that target the trait or cats that have the anti-sub-trait ability.
I feel the biggest problem with the farming of stones, is that even the behemoth doge is sometimes too much. Even if you do beat it, only 2 of the 6 rewards are stones, the rest are building materials for some reason. meaning you are already rolling a 33% to even get what you're after. I've beaten Forest of Gappra 10 times and I've gotten 2 stones, and the first behemoth unit I got Val Val who only needed one stone, wasn't even worth the resources I put in. I'm honestly considering ignoring it until I beat Cats of the Cosmos, which is really sad to say cause I really want to experience all my egg units, but can't cause the doge somehow kills my base faster than a cyclone can. why is the farming so rng and insanely difficult? it claims to be just a 4 star stage, but you're dealing with a unit who is faster than most cats, hits hard enough to knockback loop units at level 30 even legends and tanks, and even has a chance to survive a lethal blow, wtf is all I have to say to that. oh, and the first level sends a fair few out, making sure you get screwed over.
@@callanashworth2940 technically, zombie respawn doesn’t even trigger on death, and rather triggers when the enemy’s go reaches 0 for a certain amount of times
Behemoths aren’t a terrible concept imo but it’s implemented as bad as possible. For starters you CANT farm the stones without enigma stages and even than its hard because you can only play one of 4 or 5 stages once every 4 hours at best. And even Then its basically impossible to get any cat that requires yellow stones until beating Dogumaru, which is riddiclous as most them like catcus grant anti Aku abilities and the aku realms are definitely beatable long before that point (pretty much as soon as an ancient curse is cleared as you finally get level 50 units.) and don’t show up again till long after (though they can still be useful in Xp bonanza.) This wouldn’t be a problem if there wasn’t SO many units that needed them. Worse than that is only like 4 of the eggs are actually good. And those are Courier, Hainwa, Catcus, and Mushroom. Everything else is a waste of stones as they barely counter 1 enemy if they even have that. Yeah ik the ul legends also trueform with stones but your probably gonna have alot of stones left (aside from epic which is brand new) when you actually unlock them, similar to how you probably have alot of catseyes after clearing sol even if you trueformed every cat that needs them, which you probably wouldn’t have cause most of them are horrible and there a ridiculously valuable resource for literally no reason. They should be MUCH less behemoth stone evolutions than Catfruit ones yet it seems like every new true-form they add these days needs behemoth stones despite them being infinitely harder to farm. Also i think your overestimating courier. Yes he does blitz sol but saying Heavens Oasis is the only difficult stage with him is ridiculous and not even close to true. Truth is they ARE plenty of stages were Courier isn’t viable the problem is the amount he is viable on. Theres also a lot of stages that are pretty easy in 2 and 3 star without courier as well.
I totally understand the Behemoth backlash. For some reason I just feel annoyed by Aku though. Maybe it's because the scarcity of Shield Piercing units makes it more of a challenge. Of course there are other useful counters, such as talented Fiend, talented Lils, and Cat Cactus(who I got last because of the stupid Yellow Stone farming... yuck), but it also made the grind to get through a little more rewarding. I learned more about timing through Slime and Supercar, wished I had more Surge Immune units in my repertoire, and cried knowing that the only other Aku Advent drop kinda sucked. But through those hardships I gained newfound knowledge of how to better strategize for stages, and what cats I should use to help out. Boulder was a big lifesaver for some of those stages too. But then I got Iz the Dancer of Grief and stomped my way through stages till Mexico. Well, at least the shields are only 50% on regen. XP Bonanza is pretty fun too! Only Aku enemy I hate without a doubt is Midnite D and even that is a bit more rare. Aku Gory's savage blow is scary, but mostly negligible, and with good enough timing Condemned Peng can fall victim to a Slime, a Supercar, or just Bullet Train. Overall a very nice trait! Just... never pair Akus with Angels ever again. Please.
8:48 with the exception of awakened urs and gorgeous groovin cat, which have 30% and 8% dodge chance respectively. Later edit: egg pod also has a modified behemoth slayer, with a 50% dodge chance.
I was stuck on mining epic and ironically enough i wasn’t using courier thinking that megamojo surge made him unusable but with enough of courier spam i finally won the stage Money may not solve problems but enough of it definitely can
Very detailed analysis. Three things to add though: 1. The way they handled Wicked Cat stage schedule is not the ideal to say the least. You have to do those stages for convuluted schedules. Basically, if you miss any of the stages due to any reason, you have to wait for them. There are 12 pre stages before you get to fight Wicked Cats, that's a lot to miss if you aren't actively playing BC. The way to circumvent this is to time travel to trick the game, which is very bad as you are now incentivized to use cheating method to progress. On this department, at least culling stage schedules are much more friendly to many players. It's very unlikely for you to miss them at all. 2. Speaking of culling stages. Those stages have pain in ass "one clear per day" restriction. This is very bad for grinding stones for many egg TFs and UL legend TFs. The only way to get stones faster is to do enigma. And there's an exploit for players to use to farm enigma in much faster rate. Once again, Ponos gives you more incentive to cheat the game. Both reasons so far pointed out that Ponos literally ask their players to cheat the game to progress more smoothly and to make the behemoth stone farming not being too painful. But there's the third point which actually affects the core gameplay. 3. Those immunities on Behemoths change how you play the game significantly. Ducks have slow/freeze immunity making cc units like Cyberpunk or many CC ubers overall less desirable. The best way to deal with them is to bruteforce with the DPS. And we have Courier as reliable behemoth DPS. Which is like you said, it centralizes the game too much on behemoth slayers units while also make many CC units to be straight up worse. Bad. Game. Design. In the end, I am not happy how they implemented Behemoth traits. Bad game design while asking players to cheat.
Anyone remember when the Epic cube farming stage was released and it was nearly impossible to beat it consistently without legend cat true forms (or very specific ubers)?
Radical sorta is a bit of that too, but Surgeon is an egg unit and almost every egg units corresponds to a certain behemoth enemies (or at least it sorta used to but its rather inconsistent now), and Surgeon being a fast moving surge immune anti floating behemoth slayer is still one of the sorta "designated counter" for hazuku. Not that it works well.
Aku felt like a pure typing to me like howz traitless, alien and all that shiit is behemoth is a sub typing..which for some reason ponos is trying to make a main type. They don't have special characteristics only being they are stronger then regular variant which is kinda boring tbh. Aku having shield, alien having barrier, red having immense dps but most of them having low range, angel dps, higher def and knock backs, kinda well rounded enemies, black being high dmg, high kb nd fast, relic have their curse, zombies have burrow ...and we have behemoth being like, "I'm just a boosted ver."
Great video, however I have two complaints. First of all, no enemy trait has given me more mental distress than aku. Secondly, both traits are outclassed by Sanzo.
i wish behemoth wasn't a trait but a type of THEME ya know like instead of behemoth enemies having over 1.5 mil hp and 20--40k attack they just have unique abilities! like rajakong is the only BIG (design wise) while the rest spawn in groups like the Casaurian variants the casaurian variants should have definitely a group type enemy where they are kinda buffed but spawn in groups of 3-4 for like 2-3 waves periodically instead just 3 buffed and annoying things! (imo at least) edit: i also wish ponos went for more of a dinosaur-like design to be a bit more original for the behemoth instead of just copying and pasting already but what's done is done at the end of the day i am still a hardcore BCplayer and will continue to play BC until the games services is done
The first 3 traits in the game were at its realease,traitless,red,and floating The first enemies with these types: Traitless:doge Red:Pigge Floating:Mooth
All this time later and I look back on this video again and again. Behemoth is by far one of the most infuriating things to fight, especially scissorex, hazuku, rajakong and maybe even vermilingua (Albeit to a much lesser degree). Behemoths just make me feel weak… and because of the system for stones being super limited until you fight these insane monsters, I can’t get stronger like with the aku realms. At least I’m making progress through the realm, maybe I’ll beat jagando and beat empress afterwords, but behemoth is just a wall that can fight back… doesn’t matter which enemy, it’s nothing more than a wall w/ a different position. Months in… and I only have courier… I don’t even wanna true form other eggs cause I’m trying to get the major counters to progress… and w/ my luck… I proceed to not even get yellow stones… like… at all… all I feel is pain 🥲
Always made me sad when people didn't like Iron Legion as much as I do. Thermae is my favorite Uber, and I've (unintentionally I don't seed track) got all of them aside from Muu. I like using the base forms on easier stages just to appreciate the cute design
I like the video but I would disagree in something: most of the units against Aku that are not ubers only focus on status effects but those doesn't apply if the shield is up, and the only shield-breakers are Aku researcher and Li'l macho legs with talents. Yeah, you can chip down the shields but that's worth it only if you have the cash to summon stuff enough to stop the akus and fellas from walking to your base. What I think they could have done it's to give some units like Fiend cat the shield-breaking ability, similar to what happens with Zombies, since even if you dont have ANY anti-zombie, you could just use Thaumaturge cat as an improvised zombie killer and lots of meatshields (yeah, I know that exists Shigong but Onmyoji cat is a more often draw from the gacha, and im talking of DESPERATE times), while in the Aku meta you don't have the same oportunity since shield-breaking is another RNG fiasco from PONOS' hands that limits to 2 non-uber units. Also as a footnote: the shields INCREASE in health with enemy magnification while Alien barriers dont so you'll eventually would get Mexico'ed if you dont have any anti-aku uber. I liked your investigation for the video, but I needed to get this out of my head. Have a nice day👋
Playing through both, behemoth isn't a bad update, however, it was power creeped to all high hell. I think courier should've been nerfed (strong instead of massive would be best imo and behemoth slayer is too strong nerf it ponos please). It requires you to grind, grind and grind all the C U B E S required for the key units, and not key as in the best, key as in required. In my opinion lock and key design of the both of em are a stark contrast of how they're viewed. Aku obviously has a lock (shield) and key (shield pierce) you can brute force their high hp shield, giving them a dynamic feel, do you shield pierce or do more damage? A genuine question you ask and answer on the fly, it's quite fun. Their death surge complements this also, gato amigo goes from forgettable 4-star meatshield to a strong aku meatshield but not required, you'll lose alot of ground without him though. This opens aku to a unique lock and key design that allows you to sorta pick the lock, or even just breack it entirely making the key irrelevant. Behemoth on the other hand behemoth, is long, grindy, unbalanced, powercreeped and worst of all makes most if not all previous units unusable. The key (behemoth slayer) is the only thing makeing the stages take a reasonable amount of time, a REASONABLE amount of TIME, I don't think I need to explain why that's bad design. However I think beating behemoth into the ground is overdone. Let's talk about the good. Immunity, I think it could work, frontlines being immune to freeze could be a way of forcing unique strategies, how about backlines immune to wave, peons immune to surge, how about a rusher immune to weaken. If picked carefully, Immunity is strong without being op, making the usual key not fit and forcing the player to look through their other keys on their comically big key chain. Second behemoth slayer, could be a way to make a key without them being too op, yeah Ponos definitely could've done better, but I'm sure if they went back and tweaked a few things it could be better. Thirdly, applied effects, eh, gimmicky at best, I wouldn't bet on anything being too good, but it could be fun and funny, and for a game, that's important. TLDR, man I hope Ponos tweaks behemoth.
What I don’t like about barriers is the special only restrictions on levels that have barrier enemies. The only two special barrier breakers that are accessible at that point are loincloth and Li’l macho legs, which both can be extremely difficult to get close enough to actually break a shield due to sucky stats
"Players shouldn't have to wait until late-game to access new content and traits" Relic: *nervous sweating* Also, while behemoth means large, it's used in BC like 'monstrous', not 'large' (that's what colossals are for), so I feel like their designs have been undersold, as they all look monstrous compared to the enemies they are variants of.
the fact that behemoths are introduced with (unfarmable) farming stages leaves a bad taste tbh. Even if they make a story mode with them with Zero Legends, it just feels like they didnt get a proper introduction
With behemoth doge, since first met, and then you meet ahrojo it seems unfair to kill it. Since it’s a big step up at first. The behemoth enemies most have 10000000 hp and it will be hard to kill first
I have a feeling that Zero Legend will expand on behemoth enemies, mostly because the UL legend true forms are anti behemoth. The same thing happened with anti relic true forms for the SoL legends, so I wouldn’t be surprised. I guess ponos meant for behemoths to be a late-game venture, which is why the farming stages are so hard, but that still doesn’t excuse courier’s existence lol. Courier really did throw the meta off balance, and I hope they nerf the unit somehow despite never doing that before. Either way, the video was really well edited, good job man
Well nerfing gacha is out of the question, but ponos has nerfed non gacha, like dark laser losing area attack a long time ago, maybe courier and the behemoths will be nerfed
For some reason after watching this video, I wanted to play battle cats again, so i transferred my account which i haven't used in 3 years and....I did. Thank you, The game is way better than i remember.
Imo I would switch Courier with some Egg units that you get later down the line to prevent new players from getting it until at least early UL, and prevent Behemoth slayer from stacking with another trait. E.g. if you're fighting a behemoth enemy your massive damage/resistant would not activate, but they should buff Behemoth slayer to sort of compensate for it. Each farming stage could be played 3x a day for 3 hour time periods, so it's much easier to get units. Plz just nerf Behemoth health and Courier. Edit: 6 months later and I don't care about them anymore. I alr got all ancient eggs and imo Behemoths are fine. This video overexagerrated the impact.
I'm actually mad now that I forgot Behemoths were Monster Hunter references. It was like their whole design and I somehow missed it lol
speaking of references, Jellycat is actually a dragon quest reference
Lol
Yeah its their only redeeming factor
The chickful a behemoth is based on what monster though?
i wondered why the red behemoth bird looked like Yian-Garuga, i just thought they had the same inspiration
Aliens did have a signature ability - they had abilities! It's easy to forget that enemies with procs were not always a thing, and while nowadays all traits have them, the aliens were the frontrunners.
aliens also give very little money, and are affected bt the ITF gems
@@racket804 give very little money? What about mistress celebdoodle? Ursamajor? Cyberhorn? Mawth? I.M. Face? Galactic overseer Nyandam? Bun bun symbiote?
@@Blaze_B.C. face, moth bun bun are also floating, so they give big money. Big units like nyandam, horn, and bear always give you good money, but the alien versions give even less.
@@racket804 I wouldn’t say that’s very little money though. That seems like plenty of money.
They also have the teleport thing
Extremely good and complete analysis, very very well done. It's insane how badly behemoths were implemented and basically singlehandedly begun the trend of enemies with obscene amount of health for no good reason and extremely monotonous gameplay. When people ask help in behemoth stages, you could suggest using 5 slots of research combo (or 3 slots for research and 2 for attack), 1 or 2 meatshield, cancan, maglev, and courier, and it would unironically work 90% of the time. Sleep as hell.
Also I would say I disagree on 2 things, 1 being behemoth visual design and 2 being zombie reception. Definitely personal but I genuinely really like Behemoth designs as they reflect Monster Hunter creatures, and imo they did a great job replicating these monsters into battle cats style. Darkjo and Ahirujo are similar because they're based off of monsters of the same family, Yian Garuga and Yian Kutku, while Magamojoe is a bit different since its based off Kuluyaku. And regards of Zombies, I don't think they're necessarily badly received by the community. Outbreaks was badly implemented but I don't think that really makes people not like the trait. From my experience, people disliked zombie simply because it shakes the meta massively due to burrow destroying a lot of uber spammers. Which, in my opinion, is a good thing. Zombie is one of my favorite trait due to how insanely different they play, but unfortunately they made Holy Blast and then its downhill from there... but thats a different story.
Overall, extremely well written and well edited video. I think some of the things you talk about here are too off-topic and could be made more concise or even unnecessary to be in the video, but otherwise it's a very good analysis!
Probably the worst thing about behemoths for me is how they made units that specifically counter the behemoths - luza obliterates magamojoe and mushroom obliterates Rajakong. Just removes the benefit of collecting lots of units over time and forces you to always use a specific unit
@@turt1100 i fucking hate that so much LOL me when i make the most monotonous meta ever
Tldr but I assume it’s an extremely valid argument
very good and thoughtful comment Lucas!
@@turt1100 it's just like bomber and razorback but somehow even worse
Regarding about design choice of Behemoth enemy. This is actually problem with PONOS translation. In JP version, Behemoth is called "超獣" that roughly means "Superbeast". If we want to make it as accurate as possible, the best possible translation would be "Monster" or "Beast". This translation would fit more because all Behemoth enemy is pictured as fierce variant of pre-existing enemy and also a direct homage to Monster Hunter game. In this context, Behemoth translation choice doesn't make sense. Especially when we already have Colossus/Baron for big-enemy arch-type.
w silumantomcat
Monster Hunter mid
@@MaxiemumKarnage shut up
@@MaxiemumKarnage I wish I could say your ip rn RUclips deletes it tho
@@Silly-goober-OwOThere are no words for how sad your comment is
I absolutely hate the behemoth trait because of how hilariously inflated the stats become thanks to the existence of Courier Cat.
Hopefully they nerf him to acceptable stats somewhere in the near future but then yet again everyone is going to whine and cry because corrier cat got nerfed
Not only courier, behemoth slayer ability itself is stupidly bad and was(and is) a horrible addition for the game's balancing. And the fact that ponos instead of solving this problem, just add a new hyperboosted enemy with a new cat to completely counter it(mushroom and rajakong, luza and the relic duche) , makes this even worse
@@derrickhageman1969 2 things could happen here: nerf courier, everyone whines but behemoths stats go back to normal, or dont nerf him and everyone whines, and most behemoths get insane stats, making courier almost necessary
@@voidgamer7122It kind of feels like what might've occured with angels if they didn't get the anti-floating immunity, though if it were to be applied in a similar way, they probably could reduce the enemies back to around their original stats and a slight buff to behemoth slayer to compensate for no longer being able to double dip on traits/subtraits.
@@derrickhageman1969theres a problem:They have to balance a ton of stages and enemies
"Surge immunity? What unit does this counter?"
Dark Kasli, obviously. That's the whole reason they were given that ability.
Dark Kasli still works bc of the curse XD,and if not,then she still does good damage with only the main attack
@@FARC723
He meant that curse is still applied regardless of surge immunity.
@@skyjack1 Yeah,that's what i mean
Yeah i remember using Dasli for Behemoth stages and thinking "why is the duck not dying faster", and then realising 💀💀💀
Bikiniluga obviously
Amazing analysis of the two traits. Aku enemies were definitely a fun addition to the game that made some rather bland enemy variants actually interesting to fight, such as Fallen Bear and Le'Behemoth but man Behemoths could have been executed so much better. I love that most of the Behemoth enemies are based on Monster Hunter enemies (even if I never played any of the games) can lead to some very cool designs like Scissorex. The issue with Behemoth enemies imo is like how you said it leads to over centralization of the Behemoth meta to the point where only a couple of Behemoth Slayers are even worth using, like Courier and Mushroom. Courier definitely played a big part to messing up how PONOS treated Behemoth afterwards. Hazuku is the biggest example, as a backliner with that much damage AND surge can sometimes make him straight up unfair to fight. For those who have played Birth of True Man, you would know.
Behemoth Stones I feel wouldn't be as much of an issue if some units didn't have such a high cost. Cactus Cat is probably one of the worst offenders of the amount of stones needed. While on the topic of stone evolutions, the issue with them could be solved by allowing you play the stages multiple times a day so it doesn't take ages to get any of the true forms. I have been grinding out the Behemoth Stone stages almost daily on two of the 3 map available and currently only have Courier, Catarzan, Mushroom, Radical, Haniwa, Supercar, Armored Firefly, and all of the UL true forms outside of Luza. When 12.0 first came out in Japan, I grinded stones to get all of the UL true forms outside of Luza and even when the update was released to the other versions, I only just got all of the stones needed for the 4 other UL true forms.
I got to say well done on this analysis!
both Cactus Cat and Supercar require more stones to evolve than Adventurer Kanna, an uber rare cat. it's absurd
i died inside once i saw how many stones luza's tf took, and anything with hazuku in it is immediately tedious and painful to do
All I could say is that Behemoths have too much stats but our counters weren't strong enough and we have weak specialists.
Behemoth is not a trait...
😮 What
PONOS on the office like: "Yeah bro let's make a FARMING stage that you can only clear ONCE per day but requires up to 20 fucking clears for a single true form to make it so that players aproaching the end of UL or returning players that stopped playing for a bit are time gated for a fucking MONTH (if not more) to be able to get to experience the end game content"
On a more serious note my biggest problem with behemoth is the fact that PONOS is just giving it so much focus and spotlight in the recent updates, like I didn't really hate behemoth stuff on release (other than behemoth stone farming), I knew it wasn't a super interesting addition but I just thought "it's just a sub trait like colossus, it's not gonna be super relevant aside from it's dedicated stages", but now we are into 9 months of behemoth focused updates and SPECIALLY, Legends Zero seems that it's going to be heavily focused on behemoth, I'm really worried about how good and fun end game content and Legends Zero as a whole is going to be in the future
I agree heavily. wanna know how to fix this crap? make the three stages permanent stages, or rotating like the basic grow stages, and just make them recover a bit after say, 3 clears. also, remove the stupid building materials. nobody in their right mind is doing behemoth stuff before maxing out cannons. for crying out loud I've beaten Gappra 10 times and I've gotten 2 stones, that's 20% of me even getting a stone let alone the one I need. that means I'd need to do it 100 times aka 3 freaking months to evolve one of my like 7 egg units. its a nightmare farming stage and I think the only reason they did it is they had flashbacks to people spam farming Cyber's revenge for easy cat tickets and decided "Nope, put every lock and gate on this thing and throw away the key, lets milk this sucker". safe to say, I hate the farming for stones, I've beaten cyclones with less hassle than this.
Here's an idea: what if the cat army found an uncharted area with the behemoths in them, and had to defend their base from behemoths instead of attacking other bases? In order to win you would have to maybe to things like "kill x amount of wild doges" or something like that?
Awesome video and great analysis, keep up the good work!
interesting idea. considering that the aggressors are always cats
That would be pretty cool
That's a cool concept
Very cool bro, it might even redeem the behemoth subtrait, but errrrrr someones gonna kill those wild doges.....
C o u r i e r
Everything about this video is facts, i really hope behemoths get a blanket fix before ponos goes too deep with them. RNG and busted stats based enemies make for some of the most boring and unfair stages I’ve played in a long time
Honestly the grind to get all UL true forms is worse than how growing strange was
@@aruce9 yea. And it's not like growing strange wasn't hell enough. Now we have that and farming for the stones.
I think it might be too late
200% wild doge as peons are aids
At least its not a couple of stages that you dont even know which they are. Its one stage where you have to kill three ducks, a bird and a blue sloth
THE FOLIVOREAN: I'm playing both sides, so that i always come out on top.
Rangmaster: you play both sides and you come out on top i try that and I'm hated...that doesn't seem fair
@@popg21-the-epic51 Me with Folivorean: oh dear, oh dear, gorgeous
me with Rangmaster: i hope you burn in deepest pits of hell
@@popg21-the-epic51 Rangmaster is Folivorean but overpowered as hell
Folivorean: rangmaster with powercreep
Rangmaster: folivorean without powercreep
I also think that not enough time was given between traits. Whereas when zombie was implemented we did not get relics until after SoL was over, we got aku and a couple of updates behemoth, which was not handled as a real trait and thus led to the balance issues noted on the video
*Me find something to listen while editing video*
btw pretty good analysis by far
I'm somewhat ok with Behemoth concept because it gives us Courier which make everything easier... a lot easier that make me worried. Courier ended up being one of the most used units for every player which is the exact same as Dasli case when it came out (except that it's free unit). This absolute broke the balance of early to mid-game which I'm not impress about. As you said, it makes the memorable stage that I love when I play 5-6 years ago become unmemorable.
I only hype on Behemoth update only because of the design because it's MonHun reference and it's the franchise the I play the most in my entire life. I'll not going to give my opinion on Behemoth power scaling because my unit is uncomparable to others.
In the perspective perspective of grinder, Behemoth Stone is nightmare for us since it's limited farmable resource. Even though, I can still farm all of them whenever I want (with a power of Dark Magik) but it still annoying to do.
man people hate behemoth but love them because they are mh reference wt hell is going on
@@greenlll121 what, you don’t like mh reference?
Monster Hunter mid
@@MaxiemumKarnage you mid
@@MaxiemumKarnage you need MH in your life.
Awesome video, good job
I feel kinda bad because this is the BC content that's worth watching, but it ends up getting overshadowed by BCU bullshit
Hopefully this and your other videos eventually get more attention
i agree taht the bcu stuff is bullshit
ASSASSIN BEAR RETEXTURE WITH OP ABILTY KILL EVERYTHING!!! (part 494
Bcu?
FACTS aeg666 is so overrated
@@kab43 nobody likes him in the first place
@@Gastro-enterite-en-imax battle cats ultimate, it's basically modded battle cats. The most viewed videos of battle cats usually are for some reason just videos of overpowered modded units, spamming overpowered units, and the very rare cool modded unit that children that watch the videos think is real
If I remember correctly, the original translation for behemoth enemies were beast enemies, and I don't know why they didn't keep that. It fits the designs so much better, and we already have colossal enemies, so why make another subtype referencing size?
Absolutely loved this video, extremely good commentary, I really enjoyed listening to this, please keep making more content and I will keep supporting you!
33:16 ponos: **adds an aku behemoth**
BOOM behemoth solved
Yep that counts
Fantastic analysis.
11:20 Strangely enough, this is a very common pitfall I've seen plenty of times in different kinds of games, my mind immediately goes to Afterbirth and Dead Cells, the former of which noticed that late bosses like Blue Baby and the Lamb were getting melted by solid runs and decided to make sure Hush and Ultra Greed (and Delirium later on) soaked up a tedious amount of damage not only generally but because of automatically boosting their health based on your attack. It's not exactly hard to guess why this didn't fly all too well and why we all remember Dogma so much more.
The latter had a massive trouble in making enemies later on feel different from early stages, so this happened mostly from affixes and general weapon issues, late game enemies soak up such an unreasonable amount of damage that you have to constantly worry about crit conditions and affix setups, despite the fact that the game doesn't want you committing to one weapon, meaning you'll likely be wasting a lot of weapons and get stuck dealing with spongey foes left to right while you painfully watch your timer go up.
It's kind of a shame that this kind of make or break pitfall is generally difficult to avoid, and that Ponos likely won't patch any of this but here's to hoping more devs learn from these kinds of design struggles.
wasn't expecting to see an isaac player here but hell yeah, balancing new content around broken things that have been implemented instead of making the broken things weaker is never good
31:56 NOOOO THE DRAGON STACK
It hurts to see it😭
"Aku and behemoth are the newest enemies"
Me with a colossal enemy on my bag: 🍷🗿
I think Ponos should be less hesitant to change aspects of the game. Usually if they make an underwhelming update, they usually push it under the rug somewhat (i.e, talent orbs) or try to fix it via additions (i.e behemoth). I get why they are more hesitant to do this as if they were to potentially nerf a gacha unit that someone spent a lot of money on to get, there can be some illegality issues there, but for units like courier I don’t see why they don’t just strip it of it’s behemoth slayer ability. It’s perfectly fine without it and would still be one of the better counters to behemoth red duche anyway
Or they could just make behemoth slayer not stack, right
It seems they are finally taking a good step with how PONOS is implementing the Sage sub-trait. Hard to counter, but not outlandishly hard, and most units are usable (except CC, which is kinda the main gimmick.)
I don’t really think that nerfing a unit would be a legal issue. If someone did spend a lot of money on a Gacha unit and they nerfed it, then the unit was probably WAYY to op for its rarity. (This case courier cat) I mean, you took the gamble and spent money to get a certain gacha and it happened to get nerfed. Your fault, however if it was removed then yeah some legal issues would arise. Pretty sure they are allowed to modify their product due to you not actually owning it directly. And honestly they should just make courrier do less damage, and make some other cats that require behemoth stones be actually good against behemoths, (bride cat, exorcist, etc) it would actually make it interesting instead of just spamming courier and meat shields.
Thank you sir. This was a very informative video that explains things I never even ask before. Plus makes me want to go back and play battle cats.
so glad this video exists. the way ponos is handling the behemoth trait makes me hate the behemoths in general
9:09 Me having an anxiety attack about how tight the battle in the background is getting
Well, seeing as PONOS's new idea of resolving a unit's problems is by hiding the patch behind lv60 super talents (Kuu), I don't expect courier or any of the egg units to be fixed any time soon...
All they have to do is nerf courier's attack stat a small bit and allow CC eggs to affect any B-unit, albeit make it weaker on non trait-target units so its not more power creep.
Just remove Courier and act like it never happened
Great video! I will say that I do have a soft spot for behemoths (I'm a monster hunter addict and I've been catered to) but they really could have been implemented better. Some of the more recent pterowl stages in particular have just felt like I'm brute forcing it over 10 minutes.
i too have a soft spot for behemoths
not because they're cool but i like deleting ahirujo within 0,5 seconds of it existing
100% agree. The Aku Realms was a lot of fun. The Behemoth farming stages are just tedious
damn this is one of the best battle cats video i've ever seen, amazing job!
Despite not struggling on both behemoth and aku, I just find behemoth kind of boring. When playing behemoth stages, it feels like I am just tapping buttons to kill enemies with no meaning. Aku is different however as it changes core gameplay. From what I have written I can conclude that even if you do not struggle on behemoths, it won't make the game interesting as Ponos doesn't really introduce anything new. Same play style with no new changes (actually the playstyle does change however not in a good way. Cc is now non existent against behemoths with the only way to beat them being brute force. )
fighting aku makes you time your units and think about what to send out. fighting behemoth enemies makes you feel like you're chipping away at a wall for 5 minutes
Mamon was my favorite enemy from aku realms, wasnt hard but felt like a final boss
I hate the enemy, anything with a shield and high pushing power is a piece of RNG shit (the akuhemoth sloth is fine because the shield works well for a passive backliner that ponos wants to die last), the whole point of pushers is they're meant to have some kind of weakness (many knockbacks, low health, high money drop, CC susceptibility, single target, exploitable trait, ec.) and guess what? Shit like Fallen Bear and marmon have *NONE* of these weaknesses, because they have a shield totaling up to 5x their max health, preventing proper knockbacks and inflating the enemy's health to be worse than the average behemoth enemy! And the shield piercing units are either gacha pulls or single target, and tend to be an RNG hellhole! It's like needing to have critical hitters, except the only thing it accomplishes is overcoming one aspect of an overpowered pusher! I'm very sick of trying to brute force these shit enemies because all I have access to is evolved form aku researcher and some very good midrangers AKA jizo + courier (which can still barely hold off condemned pengs, let alone fallen bears and shit)
@@TankieBoi get cat researcher, he shreds shields
Awesome video!! You have a lot of knowledge and explain it all really well! I'm really happy from having you making videos for the Battle Cats Community!
If the owl didn't have a blindspot i wouldn't bother trying to fight it
Also beating the whole aku realm before unlocking cactus because I never get yellow rocks to drop, i have done every single behemoth stage and grinded the two that can drop yellows every time they show up, but since the update I have gotten just 2 of them
Oh yeah, Owl's blind spot. Luza from Birth of True Man says hello🤗
Yeah, I had the same problem. Mostly you just have to get dogumaru to unlock hunter map 3 so that you can get guaranteed yellow stones.
Very well worded. I always knew that something was up with Behemoths that I didn’t like, but I couldn’t quite put my finger on it until watching this. Very well done
Also I thought that Behemoths were referencing Kirby and the Forgotten Land, since they were originally translated as Beasts, but no :(
Badass video. There aren’t enough documentary style bc videos
I forgot if I left a comment here already but this video is so well done. I have seen it at least 3 times since last summer and about to view it for the 4th. Methinks that with all the behemoth stuff out now, it has improved a little. But it won't be able to fix what it has done, and it is the reason why I have courier cat doing the 'ah eto bleh' face drawn in my phone.
Really well made analysis video.
Aku was implemented so thoughtfully so behemoth completely dropping the ball was pretty disappointing, although with the reception it has gotten I feel that PONOS will take some sort of option
I also really love the analysis of Aku on the thematic side, I feel the visuals and themes of battle cats aren't talked about that much despite how important it is to the game's charm. The analysis of alien and zombie were also really interesting, although personally I really like the implementation of zombies, aside from the huge difficult gap between the normal stages and the outbreak stages
Behemot trait as a whole is pretty bad, but I think Courier and behemoth stones are the worst inclusions. Courier is just a horribly designed unit, and introduction of more variety in farmable material just feels lame
This feels like something I would talk about in vc with the only other irl friend who likes Battle Cats
I honestly really enjoy Behemoths as a whole, they gave us some of the most powerful cats, albeit being extremely difficult to beat.
I simply think that enemies being extremely strong isnt necessarily a bad thing, as the stronger enemies begin to appear the further you grind Behemoth Stones, and therefore you'd have the necessary units to beat them. Basically like unlocking anti-Aku is necessary for a lot of the later stages of Aku Realms/Aku Advent stages.
But I do agree that Behemoths were badly implemented to the game, tho. They could've polished the concept a lot better so they were better received by the community.
I enjoyed this video a lot!
One last thing, behemoth also means "monstrous". The designs are meant to make the enemies look non-tamed, as the lore of the game originally stated that countries were sending their respective animals to fight the cat army lol
Behemoth stages were just straight up "Wild dogs will mess you up bad", meanwhile I have ZERO anti Behemoth units and its just trying to get red stones to evolve a courier cat. And that feeling, is not a good feeling.
Compared to having a barrier breaking unit ready to go for Cosmos or Aku in at least my Fencer Cat. Then expanding on it with other units as when I need them.
Whereas these Behemoth stages are just "You lose" or "Its a grindfest to deal enough damage" where I have to just meatshield and hit things hard and pray. And yep its Can Can and meatshields. Then wait a million years to win.
Its stages that feel bad to lose your energy on when their difficulty star is placed against others. It doesn't feel like a puzzle like other stages do feel like.
Can't wait for the video on Colossal since they were implemented probably just as bad if not worse than Behemoth.
I think they have a road map for aku stuff ready, but Someone Get baby rage mad about Their "super cool Beast/Behemoth Trait" was rejected so they somehow manage to conviced the highers up to make the Team focus on it instead
Honestly, i think they just rushed with behemoths. They should have focused more on akus and take more time making behemoths because they could have been such a good implementation. "Recently" behemoth content almost completely shadowed aku content and it's so sad because in each update behemoths just get somehow worse . I think if they focused on akus and then took time making behemoths , it would have been much better instead of releasing units like courier and bad implementations like behemoth slayer
Edit : amazing video btw, it's 34 minutes of straight up facts
binge watched a couple of your videos and i must say ure my favorite battle cats youtuber
Looking back on akus after behemoths ended their culling stages and the subsequent brainwashed true forms really reminds me of the comparison between realm of carnage and aku reincarnation. They are like the manic cats of mid game with some interesting support. Also I’d like to point out that behemoth slayer most likely came from the the magi madoka and evangelion collabs with their XL collabs that allow their tougher bosses to be beatable it’s fine for a collab to have broken enemies with almost 10M health. I hope we can see a follow up when possibly am realms chapter 2 drops in a few months
Let's go! I've been listening to the world of goo soundtrack lately
being a kasli-carry hearing "what does this unit counter" rattled my bones
i hate how commonly enemies have immunities. it's basically the games way to artificially force you to grind for more (usually new units) to specifically counter behemoths and nothing else
Stone farming is incredibly stupid. They make it so annoying to farm them and unless u get a hunters map you aren't guaranteed any particular color. I'll go out of my way to play all 3 stages for the day and only get red stones or purple. Blue green and yellow are incredibly rare even tho I'm playing stages with the best chances for them. Rainbow stones u can play up to 3 times and if they added that to the other stone stages it would be nicer. Late game players suffer to evolve true forms because of this mechanic and if they're worried that low level players will get powerful units...well lock the content behind a skill check like having access to UL first
i literally have like 3x the amount of rainbow stones than yellow stones like wtf ponos
@Aaron Jin ponos think they about to make a high level evolve by having 2 rainbow clusters one day not knowing yellow stones be the true gold
As a monster hunter fan I love how many references are in the behemoth enemies, like the dogs signature Canyne X on the forehead
I think the sub-trait concept has the potential to be done very well if the enemy units of the next sub trait have an interesting mechanism and cat units used against them don't target regular traits. Like if there's a sub-trait enemy, it can be countered by cats that target the trait or cats that have the anti-sub-trait ability.
28:22 rip, barely outdated info
Great video though, thank you for making this.
Cats of the cosmos’ halfway point is deneb. The first two chapters have generally good, hard, stages. The third is a stage that introduces Axoloty.
cosmic party thing is
@@shadowimpostor1990 cosmic lounge? No, deneb is the middle and has no restrictions
@@dakaramotto. big bang is the 48th stage
cosmic lounge is the 24th stage
48 divided by 2 = 24 :
@@shadowimpostor1990 but cosmic lounge isn’t the midway point, there’s nothing special about it
@@dakaramotto. the only midway point that actually is suppose dto be a midway point is the great abyss
The beserk angel gory's wave immunity is a pain in the ass for momoko users
A behemoth and colossus integrated story might be interesting, tho that might be difficult to pull off lol
7:24 darkjo surge immunity is most likely to counter dasli because of its toxic ability
or catjobs I guess
It can still be cursed by the initial dasli hit but surge immune was definitely made to make dasli’s dps goofy
@@frostyfire1227 I know it can still curse it I don't think any enemy has curse immune but it gives the curse bad uptime and dasli can easily miss it
@@lemons3621 true
I feel the biggest problem with the farming of stones, is that even the behemoth doge is sometimes too much. Even if you do beat it, only 2 of the 6 rewards are stones, the rest are building materials for some reason. meaning you are already rolling a 33% to even get what you're after. I've beaten Forest of Gappra 10 times and I've gotten 2 stones, and the first behemoth unit I got Val Val who only needed one stone, wasn't even worth the resources I put in. I'm honestly considering ignoring it until I beat Cats of the Cosmos, which is really sad to say cause I really want to experience all my egg units, but can't cause the doge somehow kills my base faster than a cyclone can. why is the farming so rng and insanely difficult? it claims to be just a 4 star stage, but you're dealing with a unit who is faster than most cats, hits hard enough to knockback loop units at level 30 even legends and tanks, and even has a chance to survive a lethal blow, wtf is all I have to say to that. oh, and the first level sends a fair few out, making sure you get screwed over.
Yeah
"death surge is the 1st ability to activate on death"
Survive left the chat
Survive is on lethal damage, death surge is 0.5 seconds after death
Zombie respawn counts right?
@@Kris_with_Banana Oh yeah true, i forgor about that
@@Kris_with_Banana technically, that's after death
@@callanashworth2940 technically, zombie respawn doesn’t even trigger on death, and rather triggers when the enemy’s go reaches 0 for a certain amount of times
Surge immune for the black duck makes sense due to adventurer Kanha or whatever the pirate girl from girls and monsters is called
The surge immune is to cripple Dasli specifically, and other surge units have to suffer as a consequence.
@@astablemultivibbrator8538 that's also true, but her surge along with the massive damage and behemoth slayer would've deleted the poor duck
@@astablemultivibbrator8538 add that to the list on why i hate Dasli
“The first ability on the game to act upon death”
Survivor- Am I a joke to you?
But seriously tho great review.
Behemoths aren’t a terrible concept imo but it’s implemented as bad as possible.
For starters you CANT farm the stones without enigma stages and even than its hard because you can only play one of 4 or 5 stages once every 4 hours at best. And even Then its basically impossible to get any cat that requires yellow stones until beating Dogumaru, which is riddiclous as most them like catcus grant anti Aku abilities and the aku realms are definitely beatable long before that point (pretty much as soon as an ancient curse is cleared as you finally get level 50 units.) and don’t show up again till long after (though they can still be useful in Xp bonanza.)
This wouldn’t be a problem if there wasn’t SO many units that needed them. Worse than that is only like 4 of the eggs are actually good. And those are Courier, Hainwa, Catcus, and Mushroom. Everything else is a waste of stones as they barely counter 1 enemy if they even have that. Yeah ik the ul legends also trueform with stones but your probably gonna have alot of stones left (aside from epic which is brand new) when you actually unlock them, similar to how you probably have alot of catseyes after clearing sol even if you trueformed every cat that needs them, which you probably wouldn’t have cause most of them are horrible and there a ridiculously valuable resource for literally no reason. They should be MUCH less behemoth stone evolutions than Catfruit ones yet it seems like every new true-form they add these days needs behemoth stones despite them being infinitely harder to farm.
Also i think your overestimating courier. Yes he does blitz sol but saying Heavens Oasis is the only difficult stage with him is ridiculous and not even close to true. Truth is they ARE plenty of stages were Courier isn’t viable the problem is the amount he is viable on. Theres also a lot of stages that are pretty easy in 2 and 3 star without courier as well.
I totally understand the Behemoth backlash. For some reason I just feel annoyed by Aku though. Maybe it's because the scarcity of Shield Piercing units makes it more of a challenge. Of course there are other useful counters, such as talented Fiend, talented Lils, and Cat Cactus(who I got last because of the stupid Yellow Stone farming... yuck), but it also made the grind to get through a little more rewarding. I learned more about timing through Slime and Supercar, wished I had more Surge Immune units in my repertoire, and cried knowing that the only other Aku Advent drop kinda sucked. But through those hardships I gained newfound knowledge of how to better strategize for stages, and what cats I should use to help out. Boulder was a big lifesaver for some of those stages too.
But then I got Iz the Dancer of Grief and stomped my way through stages till Mexico. Well, at least the shields are only 50% on regen. XP Bonanza is pretty fun too! Only Aku enemy I hate without a doubt is Midnite D and even that is a bit more rare. Aku Gory's savage blow is scary, but mostly negligible, and with good enough timing Condemned Peng can fall victim to a Slime, a Supercar, or just Bullet Train. Overall a very nice trait! Just... never pair Akus with Angels ever again. Please.
Petition to pair Fallen Bear with Angelic Gory spam
Amazing music selection you earned yourself a subscriber just for that
8:48 with the exception of awakened urs and gorgeous groovin cat, which have 30% and 8% dodge chance respectively.
Later edit: egg pod also has a modified behemoth slayer, with a 50% dodge chance.
Underrated subs for a video this good, subscribed
Now theres sages, uh oh
Ok, you may be correct amazing analysis of the two types but one thing is for certain, courier is OP
I was stuck on mining epic and ironically enough i wasn’t using courier thinking that megamojo surge made him unusable but with enough of courier spam i finally won the stage
Money may not solve problems but enough of it definitely can
5:36 revive:Am I a joke to you?
Very detailed analysis.
Three things to add though:
1. The way they handled Wicked Cat stage schedule is not the ideal to say the least. You have to do those stages for convuluted schedules. Basically, if you miss any of the stages due to any reason, you have to wait for them. There are 12 pre stages before you get to fight Wicked Cats, that's a lot to miss if you aren't actively playing BC. The way to circumvent this is to time travel to trick the game, which is very bad as you are now incentivized to use cheating method to progress.
On this department, at least culling stage schedules are much more friendly to many players. It's very unlikely for you to miss them at all.
2. Speaking of culling stages. Those stages have pain in ass "one clear per day" restriction. This is very bad for grinding stones for many egg TFs and UL legend TFs. The only way to get stones faster is to do enigma. And there's an exploit for players to use to farm enigma in much faster rate. Once again, Ponos gives you more incentive to cheat the game.
Both reasons so far pointed out that Ponos literally ask their players to cheat the game to progress more smoothly and to make the behemoth stone farming not being too painful. But there's the third point which actually affects the core gameplay.
3. Those immunities on Behemoths change how you play the game significantly. Ducks have slow/freeze immunity making cc units like Cyberpunk or many CC ubers overall less desirable. The best way to deal with them is to bruteforce with the DPS. And we have Courier as reliable behemoth DPS. Which is like you said, it centralizes the game too much on behemoth slayers units while also make many CC units to be straight up worse. Bad. Game. Design.
In the end, I am not happy how they implemented Behemoth traits. Bad game design while asking players to cheat.
But shields also remove cc?
World of Goo soundtrack spotted!!
4:10 this stage is so ass I recognized it from the angel doge spam.
7:45 i saw this slide into frame and felt nothing but pure dread seeing gory as a rajang good lord
Heard a mouse click at around 32:45 and it was really random.
I love how this video made your sub count increase by a lot
world of goo music instant perfect video (and the rest of the video is pretty great too)
Anyone remember when the Epic cube farming stage was released and it was nearly impossible to beat it consistently without legend cat true forms (or very specific ubers)?
13:11 isn't radical cat the counter for pterowl hazuku? like a direct counter to that enemy unit as he is surge immune and is strong against floating
Radical sorta is a bit of that too, but Surgeon is an egg unit and almost every egg units corresponds to a certain behemoth enemies (or at least it sorta used to but its rather inconsistent now), and Surgeon being a fast moving surge immune anti floating behemoth slayer is still one of the sorta "designated counter" for hazuku. Not that it works well.
Ig as a hyper meatshield (I've only seen reviews of it so), but don't see much other than that tbh
@@LucasIVYT ah Lucas in the wild, hello
Aku felt like a pure typing to me like howz traitless, alien and all that shiit is behemoth is a sub typing..which for some reason ponos is trying to make a main type.
They don't have special characteristics only being they are stronger then regular variant which is kinda boring tbh.
Aku having shield, alien having barrier, red having immense dps but most of them having low range, angel dps, higher def and knock backs, kinda well rounded enemies, black being high dmg, high kb nd fast, relic have their curse, zombies have burrow ...and we have behemoth being like, "I'm just a boosted ver."
A boosted one with immunities, to be exact.
Great video, however I have two complaints.
First of all, no enemy trait has given me more mental distress than aku.
Secondly, both traits are outclassed by Sanzo.
i wish behemoth wasn't a trait but a type of THEME ya know like instead of behemoth enemies having over 1.5 mil hp and 20--40k attack they just have unique abilities! like rajakong is the only BIG (design wise) while the rest spawn in groups like the Casaurian variants the casaurian variants should have definitely a group type enemy where they are kinda buffed but spawn in groups of 3-4 for like 2-3 waves periodically instead just 3 buffed and annoying things! (imo at least)
edit: i also wish ponos went for more of a dinosaur-like design to be a bit more original for the behemoth instead of just copying and pasting already but what's done is done at the end of the day i am still a hardcore BCplayer and will continue to play BC until the games services is done
The first 3 traits in the game were at its realease,traitless,red,and floating
The first enemies with these types:
Traitless:doge
Red:Pigge
Floating:Mooth
All this time later and I look back on this video again and again. Behemoth is by far one of the most infuriating things to fight, especially scissorex, hazuku, rajakong and maybe even vermilingua (Albeit to a much lesser degree). Behemoths just make me feel weak… and because of the system for stones being super limited until you fight these insane monsters, I can’t get stronger like with the aku realms. At least I’m making progress through the realm, maybe I’ll beat jagando and beat empress afterwords, but behemoth is just a wall that can fight back… doesn’t matter which enemy, it’s nothing more than a wall w/ a different position. Months in… and I only have courier… I don’t even wanna true form other eggs cause I’m trying to get the major counters to progress… and w/ my luck… I proceed to not even get yellow stones… like… at all… all I feel is pain 🥲
That's because Aku is a shape-shifting master of darkness
Always made me sad when people didn't like Iron Legion as much as I do. Thermae is my favorite Uber, and I've (unintentionally I don't seed track) got all of them aside from Muu. I like using the base forms on easier stages just to appreciate the cute design
I have every non event legend and I don’t seed track
@@Ice_melt luck is on your side friend!
I like the video but I would disagree in something: most of the units against Aku that are not ubers only focus on status effects but those doesn't apply if the shield is up, and the only shield-breakers are Aku researcher and Li'l macho legs with talents. Yeah, you can chip down the shields but that's worth it only if you have the cash to summon stuff enough to stop the akus and fellas from walking to your base. What I think they could have done it's to give some units like Fiend cat the shield-breaking ability, similar to what happens with Zombies, since even if you dont have ANY anti-zombie, you could just use Thaumaturge cat as an improvised zombie killer and lots of meatshields (yeah, I know that exists Shigong but Onmyoji cat is a more often draw from the gacha, and im talking of DESPERATE times), while in the Aku meta you don't have the same oportunity since shield-breaking is another RNG fiasco from PONOS' hands that limits to 2 non-uber units.
Also as a footnote: the shields INCREASE in health with enemy magnification while Alien barriers dont so you'll eventually would get Mexico'ed if you dont have any anti-aku uber.
I liked your investigation for the video, but I needed to get this out of my head. Have a nice day👋
OMG FINALLY A RUclipsR WHO USES BAD LUCK EBISU JUST LIKE ME 14:16 (I always use bad luck ebisu ever since I got him)
Playing through both, behemoth isn't a bad update, however, it was power creeped to all high hell. I think courier should've been nerfed (strong instead of massive would be best imo and behemoth slayer is too strong nerf it ponos please). It requires you to grind, grind and grind all the C U B E S required for the key units, and not key as in the best, key as in required. In my opinion lock and key design of the both of em are a stark contrast of how they're viewed. Aku obviously has a lock (shield) and key (shield pierce) you can brute force their high hp shield, giving them a dynamic feel, do you shield pierce or do more damage? A genuine question you ask and answer on the fly, it's quite fun. Their death surge complements this also, gato amigo goes from forgettable 4-star meatshield to a strong aku meatshield but not required, you'll lose alot of ground without him though. This opens aku to a unique lock and key design that allows you to sorta pick the lock, or even just breack it entirely making the key irrelevant. Behemoth on the other hand behemoth, is long, grindy, unbalanced, powercreeped and worst of all makes most if not all previous units unusable. The key (behemoth slayer) is the only thing makeing the stages take a reasonable amount of time, a REASONABLE amount of TIME, I don't think I need to explain why that's bad design.
However I think beating behemoth into the ground is overdone. Let's talk about the good. Immunity, I think it could work, frontlines being immune to freeze could be a way of forcing unique strategies, how about backlines immune to wave, peons immune to surge, how about a rusher immune to weaken. If picked carefully, Immunity is strong without being op, making the usual key not fit and forcing the player to look through their other keys on their comically big key chain. Second behemoth slayer, could be a way to make a key without them being too op, yeah Ponos definitely could've done better, but I'm sure if they went back and tweaked a few things it could be better. Thirdly, applied effects, eh, gimmicky at best, I wouldn't bet on anything being too good, but it could be fun and funny, and for a game, that's important.
TLDR, man I hope Ponos tweaks behemoth.
What I don’t like about barriers is the special only restrictions on levels that have barrier enemies. The only two special barrier breakers that are accessible at that point are loincloth and Li’l macho legs, which both can be extremely difficult to get close enough to actually break a shield due to sucky stats
*defidently not me with talented Kai one shotting the barrier of the cyclone
"Players shouldn't have to wait until late-game to access new content and traits"
Relic: *nervous sweating*
Also, while behemoth means large, it's used in BC like 'monstrous', not 'large' (that's what colossals are for), so I feel like their designs have been undersold, as they all look monstrous compared to the enemies they are variants of.
the world of goo ost is amazing and it fits this video really well
My bro got the best VGM musical taste from terraria to world of goo... Dayuuuum
the fact that behemoths are introduced with (unfarmable) farming stages leaves a bad taste tbh. Even if they make a story mode with them with Zero Legends, it just feels like they didnt get a proper introduction
One would hope they'd just take the L and nerf behemoths and their counters
With behemoth doge, since first met, and then you meet ahrojo it seems unfair to kill it. Since it’s a big step up at first. The behemoth enemies most have 10000000 hp and it will be hard to kill first
is the music track in the background from a world of goo? sounds so nostalgic.
I have a feeling that Zero Legend will expand on behemoth enemies, mostly because the UL legend true forms are anti behemoth. The same thing happened with anti relic true forms for the SoL legends, so I wouldn’t be surprised. I guess ponos meant for behemoths to be a late-game venture, which is why the farming stages are so hard, but that still doesn’t excuse courier’s existence lol. Courier really did throw the meta off balance, and I hope they nerf the unit somehow despite never doing that before.
Either way, the video was really well edited, good job man
Well nerfing gacha is out of the question, but ponos has nerfed non gacha, like dark laser losing area attack a long time ago, maybe courier and the behemoths will be nerfed
For some reason after watching this video, I wanted to play battle cats again, so i transferred my account which i haven't used in 3 years and....I did. Thank you, The game is way better than i remember.
Imo I would switch Courier with some Egg units that you get later down the line to prevent new players from getting it until at least early UL, and prevent Behemoth slayer from stacking with another trait. E.g. if you're fighting a behemoth enemy your massive damage/resistant would not activate, but they should buff Behemoth slayer to sort of compensate for it. Each farming stage could be played 3x a day for 3 hour time periods, so it's much easier to get units.
Plz just nerf Behemoth health and Courier.
Edit: 6 months later and I don't care about them anymore. I alr got all ancient eggs and imo Behemoths are fine. This video overexagerrated the impact.
i have found out why i cant progress cats of the cosmos after watching the barrier section of the video thanks man
"You need to bring courier for Red duck".
YOU NEED TO BRING COURIER FOR EVERY F*CKING BEHEMOTH EXISTING