KTM's Crap Fuel Pump causes injector failure, in my opinion!! Note: Please Read Description UPDATE.
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- Опубликовано: 3 авг 2024
- A module is now available which reverse flushes the fuel pump every time you press the starter button, runs for a few seconds in reverse .... this action pumps those pesky black particles from the fuel filter, into the bottom of the tank, ......which believe it or not solves this annoying issue!!
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Yea, those fuel pump motors put out a lot of fine particles from the motor brushes which gum up the filter. I replaced the filter with a larger aluminum housing filter which allows you to remove and clean the filter. The Chinese fuel pumps are junk and I replaced that also. Now I feel more confident that the fuel system wont leave me on the trail in the middle of the wilderness. Nice video, thanks for the info.
Hi Preston, thank you for your comment and feedback, these pumps have been an issue for a long time!! I have seen some systems which reverse the pump on every start up for about 5 seconds , believe it or not this fix actually permanently cures this problem !!!
KTM fuel pumps are notorious for failure Owners are blamed for dirty fuel when reality ifs a manufacturing fault
Hi Robert,
Thank you for watching this video. You are correct, the fuel pump is not fit for purpose and fails or causes the fuel filter to fail and as a consequence the injectors block up and fail!
Robert, i hope that you may like some of my other videos and Subscribe to my channel?
regards
EdVenture 547
The bike is still looking good Ed, hope she is serving you well
Hi Gary,
Yep all well, I changed out the filters and rode to Alice Springs return for the Fink Desert Race. Hope all is well with the new KTM.
Dudes legit he seriously knows
Thanks for demonstrating and clarifying this issue... on my 2018 350 exc-f I have replaced the inline filter at 80 and 160 hrs in both cases the filter was astoundingly black... pulled the filter apart each time.. contaminant not at all like 'dirt in the fuel'.. like small black plastic/carbon... from the pump... after 150 hours pump is still putting this contaminant out... this is not FI rather fuel+carbon injection!
Garry Allan thank you for your comments .... unfortunately the fuel pumps with the black bases are the worst, the light brown bases are better, the aftermarket fuel pump kits are generally better and much cheaper than genuine. The fuel filters sourced from bmw are the same and less than half price... go figure?
@@EdVenture547 Ok I have a brown base.. there is a guy in Aus selling the Mahle KL97 filters for $25.... I have trouble at times sealing the o-ring against the tank (the injection side) despite greasing the seals.. some overall design limitations that can stop your ride with this aspect of KTM technology
Garry Allan haven’t had any issues with the o ring other than damage from over tightening with no grease? Sorry to hear the light brown base base also given problems. By the way the first blockage on my 500 was at 1,000 kms, replaced the filter but the plastic crap then blocked the fuel injector, I now carry a spare filter, injector and fuel pump....... on my 300 two stroke, carbie model I can just mix the fuel and ride it!!
@@EdVenture547 Interesting that they have persisted with such a point of failure.. these bikes are highly evolved now... we just need reliability... particularly in remote Aus conditions.
Thanks for the quick response, it was working fine before i took it out.found out it was a blocked injector . I’ve checked out the main fuses all good. I need a way to see if I’m getting power to the pump from the main plug somehow. I’ll keep tinkering see how I go
Usually what happens is that the faulty pump produces the black particles which block the filter, overloads the pump and then the particle continue into and blocks the injector,
@@EdVenture547 how do I clear out injectors?
@@jpatek31 remove the injector and reverse flush it. You will need to connect a 9v battery to open injector, attach a tube to injector nozzle and pump fuel through it in reverse direction OR take it to an injector technician OR fit a new one..
@@EdVenture547 thank you. I’ve been trying to figure it out
@@jpatek31 hope all goes well!! I have heard that there is a module available that reverse flushes the fuel pump regularly and apparently this completely fixes this dam problem!!
Cheers Mate.
I do hope that this advice can save you from any of the injector and fuel pump issues.
Changing the filter at some regular interval is fine. But, the filter being black is normal (the pump has carbon brushes that wear) so it's not a panic situation when the filter shows black (it will show black after just a few hours). The filter is doing its job. Furthermore, the "china hat" filter at the quick disconnect removes everything that would clog/damage the injector so the theory that the pump is causing injector fails is not sound. My 17 FE501 has 450 hours on it and I've change the filter twice. Many other riders I know with high-time bikes have similar experiences. One of the REAL problems is the filter is plastic and will split at the welded seam (probably because of alcohol in the fuel in the USA) causing a fuel pressure drop (leading most people to change the pump when the pump is fine). The solution to that is to put a metal filter in instead of cheap plastic one.
Hi Scott, thank you for your comment and feedback. Yes there are many interpretations and theories on what is going wrong. Many don’t experience problems with this issue at all.
Just to clarify and u probably are aware ktm use different versions of the fuel pump which can be identified by the base colour of the pump, brown base pumps have few problems however the black base pumps produce the black plastic particles as the impeller wears into the housing. I have repaired three very low hours bikes which have had the tank filter blocked with plastic fibre not carbon. You are correct in the if u change the in tank filter before the filter blocks the pump is usually fine (run in) after that. However if the filter is not changed the the pump is eventually overloaded and fails or these fine particles work there way into the injector. By the way some models did not have that top hat filter and some of the models that had top hat filters blocked at that point and owners removed them which then allowed the injector to become blocked and fail. Also as the top hat filters clogged up the pressure in the tank filter often split ..... Anyway sorry for such a wordy response just trying to provide details on what I have experienced in Australian models. Regards EdVenture 547
Such reports on KTM and BMW fuel filter/pump issues influenced my decision to buy a Tiger800 ADV bike. At about the 20K service I was contacted by the sealer, informing me that I had an issue of rust inside the metal fuel tank (possibly water from contaminated Outback fuel?) and the fuel filter was now full of rust particles. There had been no sign of performance loss. That was the good news. The bad news was that the fuel pump and filter was an integrated unit and Triumph wanted $600 Au for the replacement items. I sourced a replacement unit for US $80 from California.
Hi Kym thank you for your comment and feedback, I’m surprised how long fuel pump issues continue to hornt the reliability of some great bikes!! Seems that it should be an urgent fix for these manufacturers? Glad to hear u have found a good reasonably priced solution. Regards Edventure 547
Hi Ed, nice slow mo and there is nothing like the sound of a two stroke. When I get back to Perth, it will be great to join you on the rides if you are prepared to wait for the DRZ to catch up. What tubes are you running?
I don't have tubes I am using mousse foam rings!!
Is the black stuff activated carbon from the canister getting sucked back into the tank through the fuel cap vent line after a tipover?
TRX250r08 Hi There, I guess the quick answer is “no” as these bikes do not have AC canisters the “black” is coming from the fuel pump! Regards EdVenture.
My '17 EXC-F has one but I think it's only on north american bikes for emissions. Everyone here removes their emissions junk and has the dealer install the "euro map" into the ecu. Those filters always have a ton of black stuff that actually pours out of them when your handling them. I suspected it might be activated carbon from the canister but if yours doesn't have one that rules that theory out and the black stuff is actually something in the pump itself deteriorating.
Unfortunately all the bikes that I have worked on and people I have been talking with have the same issue, emissions equipped or not........from new the fuel pumps are producing this black "stuff", as they wear in they produce less black stuff, too bad the filter is blocked and overloads the pump!! Many people are so concerned about getting stuck somewhere remote here in Australia that they go to the huge expense of carrying a spare complete fuel pump assembly and spare injector. KTM SHOULD BE RECALLING AND REPLACING ALL OF THESE BODDGIE FUEL PUMPS!! I do hope the injected two strokes don't suffer from the same issue as I was hoping that they would be the best adventure bike ever....
By the way I have heard that a HONDA fuel injector pump can be fitted to solve the problem, I can not confirm this fix but it was from a reliable source.....
Ed, any numbers on test pressure to justify pump replacement. Shopbooks says 48.6 to 52.9 psi. Is the pump good for the outback if pressure is only 49 or 50 psi?
Hi Don,
From new the KTM fuel pump produces black particles which firstly block the in tank high pressure filter, you can see that for yourself as it turns black!!! To avoid issues, you must replace your in tank High Pressure Filter otherwise it ... 1 : Allows particles through the filter and quickly blocks the injector nozzle , 2 : Blocks the filter completely and over loads your fuel pump. Both of these issues are not ones you wont to deal with on the outback track!!
regards
Ed
Thanks Ed- Happy Motoring!
Ed, after some talk to a marine motor mechanic, he referred to me this video showing the small pumps dissected and discussed. The black stuff is residual from motor brush contacts. Normal wear for a small pump. He said if we run a pump dry, it will likely fail unexpected. Also to maintain a clean in-tank filter as you discussed. The tank sock best benefits the two spring operated relief valves at pump intake. The Mahle filter is first defense line for brush residue, and the in-line fuel filters protect the injectors. It might be more of a high maintenance pump than a bad pump system due to it's size. He shows the brushes and motor cooling kerfs at 9:00.
ruclips.net/video/QbzEeWy1b3o/видео.html
Don, I watched the video, could not find any mention of contamination from the motor brushes? However at the 5 min. mark he says "but again the tight clearances or the tip clearances on the gear set can be somewhat prone to issues associated with contamination" and then he moves away from that subject however this is what I am observing with new bikes after only 2000km, the new pumps produce contaminants which block both the filter and injector......the pumps produce less contaminants as the wear {run} in.
regards
Ed
Sorry, should have been more specific. The marine mechanic who also rides a 500 identified filter contamination as brush byproduct.
No problems with mine in 5500 miles/8800KM. Just changed the pump, filter, and regulator as precaution and I was getting a new 3 gal tank so did it all at once. Filter wasn't near as dirty as yours. Wonder if some fuel is harder on the pumps and they wear more.
Phil Ward there are different pumps ..... light brown base pumps are ok with no problems but the black Base pumps eat themselves.....
@@EdVenture547 Interesting, just checked mine and it's a brown base one. My filter was no where near as black as yours.
Phil Ward thanks for your feedback, yes it seems to always be the case with the pumps
I had this issue and have replaced both the fuel pump and fuel filters + new fuel lines and inline filter. I bought a new battery and tried the KTM+Husky fuel rail mod. Professional injector also cleaned and I'm still getting bad idle response. Could this issue damage an injector and require a new one? thanks for the video! BTW I ordered a quantum fuel system pump instead of the expensive KTM one!
LetsGetLost thank you for watching my video and your feedback. When the fuel pump vane fails, minute particles are pushed through the filter and into the injector which blocks up. It sounds like your injector may still have some particles blocking it. You could back flush the injector with some injector or carbie cleaner. I hope u may enjoy some of my other videos and adventures..
Regards EdVenture 547
Hi, i have a problem with my motorbike. I have a Husaberg, i believe that the pump is the same at the Ktm. The pump don´t work when the level fuel is in reserve.
It is assumed that the use of the fuel reserve should be activated automatically, but it is not being activated. Could it be a pump problem or the filter of the pump? the strange thing is that the pump before reaching the reserve works correctly.
Thanks.
HLcodXP if the pump stops working when u hit reserve it sounds like and electrical problem. I can tell u that the fuel pumps with black plastic base are a problem producing black particles the fuel pumps with brown base do not have a problem! Hope this helps.
Thanks for your answer EdVenture 547. I'm going to check if it's an electrical problem.
Bloody nightmare on Freeride tank!!!
Hi Chris yes a problem…. There is an aftermarket module available that reverse flushes the filter every start and this seems to be a good fix.
I have ktm tpi 2019 with 20hours today i looked into the fuel tank, and this filter is black already, should i replaced it? Also bike behave strange on low throttle...
Hi Luke, this is very common, change your in tank filter urgently and also check the inline filter in the fuel breakaway fitting. This should solve your issues. If not pieces of pump may have made their way past both filters into the injectors, which would also require cleaning. Please let me know how it goes.
Regards EdVenture 547
Hi my ktm freeride has aliitle problem
Somtimes when i accelerate the power is not comeing...like falling in head...like it drowns...i need to change the filters...right,
It eould help me a lot if u could tell me
Hi David, if your freeride has an in tank filter, check it and if it is black then it should be changed. Yes, your brief description of the problem may be a fuel starvation issue.
Regards EdVenture 547
@@EdVenture547 than you
I have a 2016 ktm450sxf and I starts and idles and I can open the throttle just a little bit and if I open it more, it’s bogs an dies. I took my injector to clean and they said it was clogged, I also adjusted the valves because 3 were out of spec, an I ordered a new fuel pump,fuel filter and regulator. I’m waiting for the fuel pump to come in the mail. Will this get my bike running good?
Hi Alejandro, some ktm fuel pumps grind the vanes on the pump body and this causes black plastic particles to firstly block the in-tank filter
and then the injector becomes blocked. Please let me know how your repairs go . Regards EdVenture 547
@@EdVenture547 I also checked the in tank filter and it was just a little fort but I still replaced it just to make sure. I’ll update you after the repair 👍
@@EdVenture547 so I installed the new fuel pump and regulator and still nothing. Now it doesn’t even want to start! I would hear a little bit of backfire but that’s about it
@@818blur the work u have done should not have made things worse!!???
my 2013 KTM450 Will start but die when I give it gas what could that be?
Austin Meade thank you for your question ... I would say that fuel is being restricted somewhere. This could be a blocked filter. If any work has been done recently start looking there and certainly check the in tank filter. Regards EdVenture 547 .... let me know how u go.
Interesting that this is not a problem in the automotive world, most all of which all use in-tank fuel pumps. Is the automotive world using brushless Motors? Or would brushless work immersed in fuel tank 🤔
Totally agree with your observation Matthew, I really don’t see why they continue to use these particular fuel pumps, which are renowned for this problem!
I pulled it all out and replaced the filters reinstalled and now my fuel pump is not engaging. Have I missed something...I’ve checked it twice
Rob Martin i guess you mean that your fuel pump is now not working, if that has happened then power is probably not getting to the pump. Check connections and fuse. I have found that the pumps which have a black base most often fail, the tan based pumps are much more reliable.
can this be the reason of loads of flameout and idle fail?
Hi Jonatan Hultqvist , they do have that problem but I don’t think it is related to this issue. The flameout is due to not having extra fuel pumped in when you open the butterfly, carbies used to have a fuel squirter to solve this problem.
Regards
EdVenture 547
What frequency are you inspecting/changing the filters?
Hi Daniel, thank you for your comment. I have had filters blocked almost completely after 1,000 kms from new.. it seems that the pumps then wear in and don’t produce as many black particles to block the replacement filters but still worth regularly checking. You can see how black the filter is by looking into the tank through the fuel fill hole . Regards EdVenture 547
@@EdVenture547 excellent follow up info. Thanks!
Oh I'd also seen a few videos on some ktms having unusual ware on the swing arm to rear spring joint. Did this occur on yours?
@@danielsimpson8929 I currently have a 2010 ktm 300 two stroke with 40k on it , no problem with swing arm issues, my 4 strokes not as many kms but no problems. Most of the guys I ride with are on KTMs no issues? Maybe you can post vid of the problem you have , see if I can help?
@@EdVenture547 this was the first video I saw on it.
ruclips.net/video/yrdXeb9uKRQ/видео.html
Slavens racing, and a few others posted about it as well.
When this happens will the bike crank over or no?
C Dub yep, the bike cranks over just no fuel so won’t go.
Stupid question but if I unplug the actual fuel line tha comes off tank and try to start bike will it shoot out of pump ?
Hi Jeff, thank you for your question!! Yes if u turn on the bike the pump will be pressurised
But if u pull the fuel line it is a breakaway connection so no fuel will come out of the line …. Hope that makes sense? The line has a valve on the end ….
can someone tell me what the sensor looking part is that's wired to the harness?
redrider533 not sure what part you mean?
The small silver cylindrical part With 2 wires coming out of it
redrider533 I think u are talking about the fuel level sender
redrider533 sorry I meant the fuel light sensor...
Have you found a good after market fuel filter?
Whiskey Throttle Enduro... the problem is the fuel pump..... I found a good after market fuel pump replaced it all fine!! The fuel filter is not a problem, Ducati uses the same filter available for $20....
@@EdVenture547 Hey, my 2015 350 just stoped running this weekend and I think its the fuel pump. When I tap the start button, should I hear clicking or a hum from the fuel pump? Mine is dead silent. I’m trying to find a fuel pump asap for I am racing this Saturday. The OEM’s are about $340 online, what kind do you recommend? Are the Quantum Fuel Systems one any good? I can get a new one shipped 2 day for $182. Thanks!
@@bpekarna hi Brad, I have used replacement fuel pumps on eBay for $70 that have done the job better than OEM .... Regards EdVenture 547. If no sound then pump not working check fuse also!!
@@EdVenture547 Thanks, I get the pump to work 5% of the time so I don’t think it can be a fuse? Where is it just to be sure? Thanks
@@bpekarna if it works 5% that’s good enough, how does your in tank filter look?
Berapakah tekanan standar fuel pump sxf 250 (2013)...
Sxf 250 saya pada saat star awal sangat susah hidup dan mengalami stasioner yang buruk
Thank you for your comment, it is very likely that your filter is blocked. Replace it as soon possible! Regards EdVenture 547
@@EdVenture547 apakah ini juga yang menjadi faktor saat gas di tarik lalu di tutup kenalpot akan meletup?
@@ichsanuyee7949 sorry I am unable to translate your questions .?
@@EdVenture547 ok, I also use translate. What is the standard value for the 2013 sxf 250 fuel pump pressure? because mine is only at 40psi
@@ichsanuyee7949 I have been out of phone reception for a few days, sorry for the delay in answering, Anyway I would expect that 40 psi is fine and not the problem… a fuel restrictions in injector can also be a problem. Please let me know how you go with the fix?
my ktm 500 exc 2013 started right up and ran for 10 minutes after sitting for 6 months after a quick rev to 2k she died and she didn't wanna start back up
Hi Eric, Thank you for your comment.... sorry to hear that your 500 won’t start. Check for spark, if sparking then next check fuel pressure.. usually if it starts then stops it will be blocked filter then fuel pump and then injector. Regards EdVenture 547. Please let me know how you go.
@@EdVenture547 yes you were correct my injector was clogged replacing all the fuel filters aswell as cleaning the injector
@@EdVenture547 my fuel injector was clogged, currently going to replace the gas tank filter and fuel pump filter for preventative maintenance, I cleaned the injector using 9v and some carb cleaner, she fired up better then she ever ran after cleaning it, kinda worried I ran my bike really lean before I cleaned it though
Ok just to let you know I sorted it out...after a few hrs of buggering about, I had a hint that if my injector gummed up from old fuel maybe the pump did too, maybe..anyhow i hooked up my fuel pump up separately to 12v and flushed some fuel through it, and it worked.must have needed some fuel in the lines to free it up..Sorted all back together now and running fine..
Rob Martin thanks for the update, glad to hear all is well.
Yea mate it's never ending .. Number 1 DNF failure's for private KTM's in 2018 Dakar was fuel-pump's .. these poor bastards use their life-savings to do the Dakar and get sucked in by the KTM Hype of 'Ready to Race' and flush it all away down the shitter because KTM still after all these years can't design a bloody fuel pump. Wankers!!!
Queenslander and now they are selling fuel and oil injected two strokes..... another recipe for problems.... in my opinion!