I don’t remember MVP being a topic of conversation for decades. We would read about the winners after the fact. Like rings importance this is a media manufactured narrative to make clicks (money)
You're absolutely right. I've been watching the NBA since the 1980s. MVP stuff really didn't become a topic until the end of seasons....and even then it wasn't treated as a huge deal and controversy if someone's favorite didn't win. Of course, back then, you basically had Magic, Bird and Jordan winning a crapload in that time...and few people are gonna argue with those guys.
No Jokic needs his TEAM to be 55+ wins if SGA is gonna be #1 in EPM, Estimated Wins, WinShares, VORP, OnOff +/- Net Rating, raw +/- (top5 single season since +/- started 96-97 at +12.3 and Curry +12.7 in 15-16 MVP on 73-9 Warriors only better MVP candidate since 96-97) played in every game and team on pace for 70 wins! Jokic best player in the world but that’s never who always wins MVP no matter what or Wilt MJ LeBron all have more! Jokic was robbed in 2022-23 MVP bc on #1 seed in West, averaged 25 point triple double in 70% TS% with by far the best analytics across the board! SGA as of TODAY is objectively the MVP. If Nuggets win at 60 win pace the rest of the year with Jokic God tier and Thunder closer to 60 wins then 70 win pace with SGA averages coming down from 31, 6, 6, 3 stocks on +17.2 (per 100 and +12.3 raw per game!) then Joker will def have a great argument for #4, but let’s all be objective and admit SGA is also having HISTORICALLY elite season also on a 69-70 win pace (missing Chet 2+ months and IHart half season). 95-96, 96-97 MJ was MVP & #2 in MVP and right now SGA > then that analytically or very close behind.
I honestly think Jokic doesn't protect the rim ,on drives, is to avoid getting into foul trouble . He often doesn't even put his hands up. He knows he cannot get into foul trouble and he never fouls out.
luka had 33 9 9 with worse on court and on off ratings than Jokic this year, Jokic 31/13/10 with 65% TS and 50% 3p > GOATED & 25PTS ON OFF!!!(Highest of all time) + Luka finished 5th seed, and thats was mainly due to better teammates acquisitions
Here's a wild newsflash: You can disagree with people for myriad reasons and not be a d-bag about it. Matt's either dishonest or totally unaware that he's abrasive about it. There are plenty of people that cover regional sports teams and take a devil's advocate approach. However, they'll basically just state their case and explain why they're going against consensus (or a perceived consensus at least). Matt doesn't just do that....he'll take some form of "fan opinion" and do his whiny/yelling voice thing to act like he's the teacher addressing children and he's going to set them straight. He also contradicts himself on what kind of stats are important and which aren't depending on the position he's taking. People don't like being patronized....I know that's an amazing concept.
But again, I like and appreciate Matt. Hope, he knows a lot of the fan base feels the same way. And it isn’t like the other analysts aren’t guilty of some of the same stuff. Even Swipa was dismissive of any valid Jamal criticism because he’s been good for a month. 🤷♂️
Jokic needs his TEAM to be 55+ wins if SGA (as of TODAY) is gonna continue to be #1 in EPM, Estimated Wins, WinShares, VORP, OnOff +/- Net Rating, raw +/- (top5 single season since +/- started 96-97 at +12.3 and Curry +12.7 in 15-16 MVP on 73-9 Warriors only better MVP candidate since 96-97), played in every game and team on pace for 70 wins! Jokic best player in the world but that’s never who always wins MVP no matter what or Wilt MJ LeBron all have more! Jokic was robbed in 2022-23 MVP bc on #1 seed in West, averaged 25 point triple double in 70% TS% with by far the best analytics across the board! SGA as of TODAY is objectively the MVP. If Nuggets win at 60 win pace the rest of the year with Jokic God tier and Thunder closer to 60 wins then 70 win pace with SGA averages coming down from 31, 6, 6, 3 stocks on +17.2 (per 100 and +12.3 raw per game!) then Joker will def have a great argument for #4, but let’s all be objective and admit SGA is also having HISTORICALLY elite season also on a 69-70 win pace (missing Chet 2+ months and IHart half season). 95-96, 96-97 MJ was MVP & #2 in MVP and right now SGA > then that analytically or very close behind. Swipa mentioned 05-06 Kobe but on 1 seed. Nah he’s been MUCH better > that. 11.8 vs 7.6. 126 ORtg vs 102 DRtg for SGA vs 114 vs 105 DRtg. Jokic isn’t winning all of the analytic stuff at all so far THIS yr as he’s behind SGA in EPM, Estimated Wins, VORP, WinShares, WS/48. EPM & Estimated the 2 most respected current analytics and SGA #1 in both. He’s doing all that while playing every game with team on pace for 70 wins. These guys are supposed to know their stuff yet they don’t mention how right now SGA > Jokic in all of those metrics I just mentioned. Again I have Joker best player in world the last 3-5 yrs (so probably 4), but MVP discussion as of RIGHT now not sure how anyone objective can say TODAY SGA not number 1.
@ you’re right it has nothing to do with SGA who is #1 in many important metrics, +17 per 100 (vs about even off), one of the best raw +/- per game ever (essentially tied with Steph Curry 2015-16 MVP season). I don’t disagree they have a well rounded squad, but SGA is by far their best player and Chet has missed 80% of their games (I-Hart nearly half as well as others).
Lol matt don't worry about any comments. People will always have something to dislike. Matt is an analyst not a fan. I've heard tons in media be the same way. Swipa is a fan and an analyst
He's an agenda driven analyst who is clearly biased, he's been pushing OKC agenda for years this isn't new. He has a growing hate for Jokic/nuggets, and it's weird so he's being called out.
@rainofkhandaq6678 just sounds like your biased. I've listened to matt, swipa, and Adam for a long time now. They all have takes they are wrong and right on. The biggest difference is matt isn't a diehard nuggs fan. Okc has been on the come up for a while now that's why. He doesn't cover just the nuggets.
I don’t think Booth gives a shit about anything but stroking his own ego. He has sabotaged the roster in order to get his draft picks playing time. He is terrible at drafting so he has to sabotage the roster to get his guys playing time. Braun is worse than KCP so booth booted KCP. PWat is worse than Holiday, so holiday had to go. Strawther is two years away from being 2 years away. Booth gave Reggie, Zeke, picket, hunter, and Saric contacts so terrible they are negative trade assets. Booth doesn’t give a shit about winning a championship or joker’s legacy or the franchise or the fans. He is just a dim witted narcissist.
I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again, I like Matt. One of my all time favorite analysts and social media follows. The contrarian and troll thing, comes from the, “Jokic should be expected to carry the entire offense and try on defense.” Followed up with, “Jamal will be fine, he always starts bad and works himself Into shape by the playoffs.” Followed up with, “See, Jamal is playing better for one month now.” Then you ignore any larger conversation that might lose you the “argument.” And I get it, it’s hard to reply to all of us and a lot of us do just say the most reactionary juvenile fan bullshit. I’m as guilty as anyone else. But when I say, Jokic is expected to do everything on offense and make up for zero defense on the other end. Who else is expected to do this? And when I say, Jamal showing up out of shape and showing a lack of growth on and off the court since the bubble, makes it hard to coach a team full of young and unproven players. And the dismissal to both things being, “Jokic is the mvp and gets paid to do it” and “Jamal will be fine for the playoffs because he always is.” In what universe can both things be true? Jokic should be perfect, Jamal can do whatever he wants. Explain that to me like I’m three years old.
100% facts. Great post @TheGoogergieger. Not sure why the consistently incredible Jokic needs to be perfect while inconsistent Murray gets so many passes and excuses. This is especially true this year, when they now have a contract in the same ballpark! Bill Simmons and others say that the talent is so high in the NBA that a majority of players could score 20 points every night if they had the opportunity and were allowed the # of shots to do it. I root for Murray, and I want all the nuggets to be good... and I'm glad Murray is playing better the last month. But I will never understand the similar level of respect and treatment people have for 30-13-10 on GOAT efficiency vs 20-5-6 on less efficiency. Especially when Murray needs Joker way more to make an impact than the other way around. (Even though of course they obviously need each other!)
Unfortunately the media is going to glaze the fuck outta SGA. Media looking for any reason to not give it to Jokic. I'm ok with it. The last time he was spurred we won a title. Hold back some in the tank big fella. We want another chip, could care a bit less about MV4.
@YoungKilla-c7c not hunger INAT bre.Us Serbs dont have hunger LOL, we ain't English, German, French, Spaniards, Dutch, Portuguese, Belgian, Italians or colonial nations. When Turks enslaved us for over 500 years they couldn't fathom why all of us wouldn't convert to Islam and when they were torturing us and forcefully converting some people. The Turks from their side, wondered why cannot we be quiet under their rules like the other people, and we wondered from our side how we could be quiet in chains, surrounded by injustice, overwhelmed by tyranny? I think hunger would be good if you are German etc. Our business is to survive and make it out alive knowing there arent that many of us or sustain what little we have.
Matt should just move to Locked on Thunder like he's wanted to for years
I don’t remember MVP being a topic of conversation for decades. We would read about the winners after the fact. Like rings importance this is a media manufactured narrative to make clicks (money)
You're absolutely right. I've been watching the NBA since the 1980s. MVP stuff really didn't become a topic until the end of seasons....and even then it wasn't treated as a huge deal and controversy if someone's favorite didn't win. Of course, back then, you basically had Magic, Bird and Jordan winning a crapload in that time...and few people are gonna argue with those guys.
They cover everything more now because of the amount of people on the internet and tv
Jokic has to overcome voter fatigue, xenophobia and some racism to win number 4.
And NBA wonders why their numbers are down…uhh
Hopefully he wins 9 MVP's by the time he' done
No Jokic needs his TEAM to be 55+ wins if SGA is gonna be #1 in EPM, Estimated Wins, WinShares, VORP, OnOff +/- Net Rating, raw +/- (top5 single season since +/- started 96-97 at +12.3 and Curry +12.7 in 15-16 MVP on 73-9 Warriors only better MVP candidate since 96-97) played in every game and team on pace for 70 wins!
Jokic best player in the world but that’s never who always wins MVP no matter what or Wilt MJ LeBron all have more!
Jokic was robbed in 2022-23 MVP bc on #1 seed in West, averaged 25 point triple double in 70% TS% with by far the best analytics across the board!
SGA as of TODAY is objectively the MVP.
If Nuggets win at 60 win pace the rest of the year with Jokic God tier and Thunder closer to 60 wins then 70 win pace with SGA averages coming down from 31, 6, 6, 3 stocks on +17.2 (per 100 and +12.3 raw per game!) then Joker will def have a great argument for #4, but let’s all be objective and admit SGA is also having HISTORICALLY elite season also on a 69-70 win pace (missing Chet 2+ months and IHart half season). 95-96, 96-97 MJ was MVP & #2 in MVP and right now SGA > then that analytically or very close behind.
It's really disgusting how the league treats him.
@@NoahLindensup Noah :) and it’s terrible :( the league hates international players
I honestly think Jokic doesn't protect the rim ,on drives, is to avoid getting into foul trouble . He often doesn't even put his hands up. He knows he cannot get into foul trouble and he never fouls out.
It is physical. He can’t jump and has poor lateral movement.
It is the reason.
luka had 33 9 9 with worse on court and on off ratings than Jokic this year, Jokic 31/13/10 with 65% TS and 50% 3p > GOATED & 25PTS ON OFF!!!(Highest of all time) + Luka finished 5th seed, and thats was mainly due to better teammates acquisitions
Here's a wild newsflash: You can disagree with people for myriad reasons and not be a d-bag about it. Matt's either dishonest or totally unaware that he's abrasive about it. There are plenty of people that cover regional sports teams and take a devil's advocate approach. However, they'll basically just state their case and explain why they're going against consensus (or a perceived consensus at least). Matt doesn't just do that....he'll take some form of "fan opinion" and do his whiny/yelling voice thing to act like he's the teacher addressing children and he's going to set them straight. He also contradicts himself on what kind of stats are important and which aren't depending on the position he's taking. People don't like being patronized....I know that's an amazing concept.
great show gents! let's go Nuggets!
But again, I like and appreciate Matt. Hope, he knows a lot of the fan base feels the same way. And it isn’t like the other analysts aren’t guilty of some of the same stuff. Even Swipa was dismissive of any valid Jamal criticism because he’s been good for a month. 🤷♂️
`I can never be Adam Mares...`
Imagine that being the bar...
:))))))))
I just realized it... I come here for comedic relief.
Jokic needs his TEAM to be 55+ wins if SGA (as of TODAY) is gonna continue to be #1 in EPM, Estimated Wins, WinShares, VORP, OnOff +/- Net Rating, raw +/- (top5 single season since +/- started 96-97 at +12.3 and Curry +12.7 in 15-16 MVP on 73-9 Warriors only better MVP candidate since 96-97), played in every game and team on pace for 70 wins!
Jokic best player in the world but that’s never who always wins MVP no matter what or Wilt MJ LeBron all have more!
Jokic was robbed in 2022-23 MVP bc on #1 seed in West, averaged 25 point triple double in 70% TS% with by far the best analytics across the board!
SGA as of TODAY is objectively the MVP.
If Nuggets win at 60 win pace the rest of the year with Jokic God tier and Thunder closer to 60 wins then 70 win pace with SGA averages coming down from 31, 6, 6, 3 stocks on +17.2 (per 100 and +12.3 raw per game!) then Joker will def have a great argument for #4, but let’s all be objective and admit SGA is also having HISTORICALLY elite season also on a 69-70 win pace (missing Chet 2+ months and IHart half season). 95-96, 96-97 MJ was MVP & #2 in MVP and right now SGA > then that analytically or very close behind.
Swipa mentioned 05-06 Kobe but on 1 seed. Nah he’s been MUCH better >
that. 11.8 vs 7.6. 126 ORtg vs 102 DRtg for SGA vs 114 vs 105 DRtg.
Jokic isn’t winning all of the analytic stuff at all so far THIS yr as he’s behind SGA in EPM, Estimated Wins, VORP, WinShares, WS/48. EPM & Estimated the 2 most respected current analytics and SGA #1 in both. He’s doing all that while playing every game with team on pace for 70 wins. These guys are supposed to know their stuff yet they don’t mention how right now SGA > Jokic in all of those metrics I just mentioned. Again I have Joker best player in world the last 3-5 yrs (so probably 4), but MVP discussion as of RIGHT now not sure how anyone objective can say TODAY SGA not number 1.
Because the Thunder have an extremely well rounded squad.
@ you’re right it has nothing to do with SGA who is #1 in many important metrics, +17 per 100 (vs about even off), one of the best raw +/- per game ever (essentially tied with Steph Curry 2015-16 MVP season).
I don’t disagree they have a well rounded squad, but SGA is by far their best player and Chet has missed 80% of their games (I-Hart nearly half as well as others).
Lmao Matt you're the man, your voice is needed in this community
Yeah in LGBTQ community
Lmfao
I'll never understand why people choose to be a jerk for no reason lmao
Matt is the best and it is even more apparent when he is next to the worst, Swipa
Ok girl..
Lol matt don't worry about any comments. People will always have something to dislike. Matt is an analyst not a fan. I've heard tons in media be the same way. Swipa is a fan and an analyst
He's an agenda driven analyst who is clearly biased, he's been pushing OKC agenda for years this isn't new. He has a growing hate for Jokic/nuggets, and it's weird so he's being called out.
@rainofkhandaq6678 just sounds like your biased. I've listened to matt, swipa, and Adam for a long time now. They all have takes they are wrong and right on. The biggest difference is matt isn't a diehard nuggs fan. Okc has been on the come up for a while now that's why. He doesn't cover just the nuggets.
I don’t think Booth gives a shit about anything but stroking his own ego. He has sabotaged the roster in order to get his draft picks playing time. He is terrible at drafting so he has to sabotage the roster to get his guys playing time. Braun is worse than KCP so booth booted KCP. PWat is worse than Holiday, so holiday had to go. Strawther is two years away from being 2 years away. Booth gave Reggie, Zeke, picket, hunter, and Saric contacts so terrible they are negative trade assets.
Booth doesn’t give a shit about winning a championship or joker’s legacy or the franchise or the fans. He is just a dim witted narcissist.
Another cornball who ignored KCP having mostly bad games, and not having a single good game in the playoffs
I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again, I like Matt. One of my all time favorite analysts and social media follows. The contrarian and troll thing, comes from the, “Jokic should be expected to carry the entire offense and try on defense.” Followed up with, “Jamal will be fine, he always starts bad and works himself Into shape by the playoffs.” Followed up with, “See, Jamal is playing better for one month now.”
Then you ignore any larger conversation that might lose you the “argument.” And I get it, it’s hard to reply to all of us and a lot of us do just say the most reactionary juvenile fan bullshit. I’m as guilty as anyone else. But when I say, Jokic is expected to do everything on offense and make up for zero defense on the other end. Who else is expected to do this? And when I say, Jamal showing up out of shape and showing a lack of growth on and off the court since the bubble, makes it hard to coach a team full of young and unproven players. And the dismissal to both things being, “Jokic is the mvp and gets paid to do it” and “Jamal will be fine for the playoffs because he always is.”
In what universe can both things be true? Jokic should be perfect, Jamal can do whatever he wants. Explain that to me like I’m three years old.
100% facts. Great post @TheGoogergieger. Not sure why the consistently incredible Jokic needs to be perfect while inconsistent Murray gets so many passes and excuses. This is especially true this year, when they now have a contract in the same ballpark! Bill Simmons and others say that the talent is so high in the NBA that a majority of players could score 20 points every night if they had the opportunity and were allowed the # of shots to do it. I root for Murray, and I want all the nuggets to be good... and I'm glad Murray is playing better the last month. But I will never understand the similar level of respect and treatment people have for 30-13-10 on GOAT efficiency vs 20-5-6 on less efficiency. Especially when Murray needs Joker way more to make an impact than the other way around. (Even though of course they obviously need each other!)
Unfortunately the media is going to glaze the fuck outta SGA. Media looking for any reason to not give it to Jokic. I'm ok with it. The last time he was spurred we won a title. Hold back some in the tank big fella. We want another chip, could care a bit less about MV4.
Jokic the GOAT ！
I don't think they win twice against the spurs. It's going to be like the suns. Back to back, it will be a split.
Be shocked if they win both. Would be nice though cause Boston could be a loss
They'll want it to go to Wemby, for the same reason they gave it to Embiid, last year.
Cause he blizzack?
@@marshallmathers2740 hes mixed...
@YoungKilla-c7cno it won’t. It might be neither of them
Don't think they will give it to Wemby so early. They won't risk having to give him 10 MVPs, he's so young. My guess is SGA if OKC stay on top.
@@marshallmathers2740 he's mixed
Jokic will not win the 4th MVP. They won’t give it to him.
@YoungKilla-c7c not hunger INAT bre.Us Serbs dont have hunger LOL, we ain't English, German, French, Spaniards, Dutch, Portuguese, Belgian, Italians or colonial nations. When Turks enslaved us for over 500 years they couldn't fathom why all of us wouldn't convert to Islam and when they were torturing us and forcefully converting some people. The Turks from their side, wondered why cannot we be quiet under their rules like the other people, and we wondered from our side how we could be quiet in chains, surrounded by injustice, overwhelmed by tyranny? I think hunger would be good if you are German etc. Our business is to survive and make it out alive knowing there arent that many of us or sustain what little we have.
Losing to the spurs is a joke
Imagine an expert who claims that jjj id better d player than wemby😅
Let's stop this nonsense. Ya'll know😂 they couldn't pay Kcp and AG. They already paid zeke too much.
Sell everybody keep Jokic overpaid bums
Nuggets trash