A disc that I love that I don't see talked about that much is the Savant from Innova. I feel there are many other molds that are 9/5/-1/2 such as the Undertaker and Tesla that have more hype behind them. The Savant is really nice because in Star plastic if flies like you would expect it to but then in the Champion plastic it tends to be a bit more OS like a Thunderbird. Funny story: I lost my precious, a Glow Champion Savant, out at Nevin Park about a week before the Pro Tour Championship on hole 18. A couple months later I'm in a newer local shop(shoutout Down4DiscGolf) and there it was sitting on the front of the rack on the used section. What are the chances?
I actually haven't heard of or thrown the Savant! That looks interesting! I'm surprised that one flew under the radar for me... I usually hear a lot about Innova molds!
I saw that stack at the beginning and instantly identified the sp breaker…. Sooooo goooooood! Ended up watching the video and indeed the Breaker!! Stoked to see it. I also think the dga banzai is just absolutely perfect. SP is the floppiest of the Banzais, Pro line is middle of the road and the Ice plastic is the beefiest if anyone wants to check it out.
I think the Mint Lobster and Innova Tern both don't get their fair share of love. Given, it is very hard to find a brand new lobster right now. I also think that until maybe the past couple years when Calvin really started winning, the Eagle was an incredibly underrated fairway. Paul, Nate, Jerm, and Ricky never really threw them, so they lost popularity after Climo retired
I haven't had a chance to try Mint discs yet... But the Tern is definitely a mold that was forgotten about! I feel like that was super popular when it came out, then just went to the wayside when the Shryke was released
Living in austin there's so many lobster and mustang people. If I were good enough at the local mini I could have a whole mint bag by now, unfortunately the oldies of the course hold it down and get all the plastic😂
Personally, I think the Westside midrange group is slept on. I'm a huge fan of the Gatekeeper myself, but have thrown the Warship and Tursas regualarly as well. Pine and Bard both are solid molds as well.
they certainly don’t do a very good job of marketing it if that’s what you mean by child they don’t care about, but the plastic is phenomenal. Some of the best on the market in my opinion and some of their molds are gems to boot.
The rift is amazing, absolutely dead laser straight for me, it flies how I want my buzzz to fly. The quake, too, is really good. Basically a faster zone, maybe a touch more glide as well.
Dynamic disc's vandal in lucid plastic Flys so far and easy to control. That would be my #1. I got a sick American flag one in used bin for $5 I had no idea if it would be any good and now is my most used disc
Innova did make Ching discs too, but they were new tops on most of the molds that were not new, like a new top for the ROC like Midrange they made, a driver that has a new top they made, then the putter and midrange lid were 100% new molds. They were the only brand I can think of doing this first in the mid 1990's to early 2000's for a brief period from what I was told by others, 1996 to very early 2003 and were stopped due to a lawsuit that Ching was starting over the fact that Innova did not create the Champion plastic but Ching had a flexible version of the plastic for the Ju-Ju. Innova just tried to make a harder version of so more discs could be made in said plastic. When Ching tried to sue in 2002--2003 for the early runs of Champion Edition that was basically an experiment for Champion, Ching molds were pulled including the molds Ching created themselves and destroyed in early 2003. The only reason a few of the Ching discs exist from Millienium in a side brand is they then right away came out with the molds like the Tank, the beadles OS Gator mold they later put under a mini side brand in early 2010's, the Beefy original mold Rhyno, or the M.O.A.B. Ching was going to be making there own molds of discs in late 2000's but again Innova people they shut down Ching from even making the two molds they were going to start with, even were going to use the old Ju-Ju plastic as they worked with distributor to get it but Innova shut down the company with an actual lawsuit saying they could not even make the molds even if they never made the Ju-Ju plastic, at least that was the rumor as Ching did get shut down by Innova, that is the only thing we know. They were going to 3D scan the 2 discs up in 2009 that were the only 100% non Innova molds to remake the molds for it but it never happened becuse of the lawsuit threat that stated they were 100% going to court if they so much as made a disc. This is why you only saw a little bit of shirts and hats.
Wild… I actually bag a Warrior and it’s totally out of a random scenario. I was playing a tournament in 25mph + winds, and guy who is sponsored by Gateway was there selling some discs with his stamp on it. He had some Warriors and I asked him about them, because I have been wanting that OS mid slot filled with something that will actually stay in the air for a while but with a strong fade, something that will fight wind. I bought it from him for 15 bones and have loved throwing it into headwinds ever since! Great disc for that slot. I hated how my Justice is just a Zone with a wider rim, literally never threw it.
I forgot about the Warrior! So I guess I have thrown something like the Fugitive 😂 I would say the Warrior and Fugitive are VERY similar! The Fugitive might have a touch more glide? But it's been a while since I have thrown a Warrior! That is also a great mid! I think all of Gateway's mids are underrated
@@ApolloDiscGolf I feel like Gateway, like DGA, flies under the radar with the newer generations of disc golfers. Probably for similar reasons that you mentioned with DGA… They’ve been around for so long and don’t really have a big name guy on tour.
I used to throw a breaker/gator combo for approaches. It came out of the bag for a while cause I swapped my gator for an entropy and my glow envy kinda had the same flight as the breaker but as the envy beats in I'm missing the breaker slot that non drifting hard putter shot. The breaker is also really great for a beautifully panning anhyzer forehand.
Also, if you putt big bead aviars, the rim and bead is almost identical and make for a great strong headwind putter that feels very similar to my normal putter.
Yeah, the Envy can definitely be close! But the thing is, you can find an Envy that is as stable and reliable as a Breaker out of the box, but Envys are kind of meant to be straighter and glidier, when the Breaker is meant to have less glide and be reliably overstable! So that makes sense as the Envy is beating in
I really like the Innova Caiman, there are a lot of mid range and below shot shaping required for our PNW forested courses and that gets use almost every round. I also like the Kastaplast Jarn for similar reasons. Fun review, as always!
Im a big Caiman fan as well, i dont think the toro was necessary since they already had the caiman. Sure its a touch faster but woopdy doo. Its reliably overstable and works well in that zone slot in my opinion, i just think less people knew about them.
I would really love another video like this, but focusing on putters. I know for myself, I putt with Mobius's and I am kind of getting tired of how they handle in the wind. Everyone here putts with Judges, Aviars, or Lunas so I would like to see what else is out there that might be a good fit. Help!
Nice to see some Legacy being thrown. I'm in Michigan and I don't know anyone else that bags legacy. Patriots are my favorite discs in my bag and Rivals are the perfect compliment. Legacy Sparkle plastic is perfection.
Two that come to mind for me are Eric DD molds. The emac truth is a great mid I bag the putter is more like the flight of a roc dx(the original kc roc) in the shape of a putter with a lot of wind resistants. It was to over stable for regular putting untill the wind was up. Thanks for the content.
Oh the Emac Judges is great! And I wouldn't say the Emac Truth is underrated... I feel like a ton of people bag and throw those! But that could also be because I am only an hour or so from Emporia
David, Thanks for the in-depth breakdown on these. Really glad you talked about the evader and how it compares to the Teebird (love that disc) now I just have to find a lucid (not air) in a 166/167g range.
I have! I got two nice butt kickings there so far! One butt kicking with my bag for Patreon, and one butt kicking with Ledgestone Wave Two coming later this week 😂
The A2 is BEEFY! I almost like how the Zone is beefy without being meathook beefy... But yes I agree! I feel like people think the Zone is beefier than it really is... It still is beefy though! But the A2 is definitely on another level.
I think you can find an Envy that has the stability of the Breaker, but it will have a touch more glide imo. And it might not be quite as stable and dependable? But they would be VERY close! The only thing is, with an Envy, you need to find an Envy that is overstable and reliable. When with the Breaker, that is made to be overstable and reliable, so any Breaker you buy will be that dependable, stable putter.
@ApolloDiscGolf Have you tried the Mint Bobcat? I have always described it as a faster zone. It's definitely a disc I'd like to hear your thoughts on. I'd possible, you should give the whole mint lineup a few throws. Thanks again for all the great content.
Rival is great! Breaker, ringer and ringer gt are all similar and i bagged a them until i started using the Berg. The one Evader i got didnt handle my forehand well but was more overstable than any of my teebirds for backhand. Binned it. Gateway shaman is a nice shallow throwing putter for ams and the disctroyer stork i got through discmember was teebird reliable for me both backhand and forehand. *dga pipeline is a great hyzer flip fairway
The Breaker and Berg would be tough for me to decide between! Because the Berg is so unique that you can probably have room for both of those discs in the bag because the Breaker has more finish and flies farther... But they can be used in similar instances as well!
@@ApolloDiscGolf absolutely. I have just tried to break up my old breaker/ringer gt into 2 slots. The berg for shorter and for longer; something like a bard, my beat in drone or something from the prodigy A series.
Yep, I was talking about Innova at that point in the video! But I can see with the jump cut there how you would think I started talking about DGA again.
Oh yeah, the Trespass is solid! Definitely a great Destroyer replacement for most players! You just have to be comfortable with the bigger rim... My small hands prefer the Wraith 😂
When I started out I threw hard forehands only. I got the champion Xcaliber to handle the torque. Extremely reliable disc in the wind and a year on it stands up a tad for backhand but never ever turns over completely and outdrives all my other discs in the wind.
The way you described the Breaker sold it for me. I like the Jokeri as a slot between my Zone and my Voodoo... but the Jokeri is too deep. Breaker sounds like a Rhyno, which is a legendary disc. I keep a beat-in-to-stable Rhyno in my bag to grab the green.
Yeah, the feel is definitely similar to the Rhyno! But yeah, I think the Breaker is more stable. And easier to find in premium plastic I feel like. I feel like they only make the Rhyno is DX plastic which doesn't make sense to me for an overstable approach disc... But 🤷♂️
I haven't had much experience with a Method... But I would say its a touch faster and more overstable. Like the Method can be a staple mid range and be someone's only mid to cycle. I don't see people cycling Fugitives... They are a little more in the overstable utility mid-range category than the Method is imo
I feel like people are still sleeping on the Jackalope. I see it a little more now but it's easily a top 5 disc for me. It's usable for so many arm speeds, feels great in the hand, and can easily out distance a lot of 10/11 speeds with a great Hyzer flip.
@@ApolloDiscGolf yeah living in KS I've been looking for a mid like this! It fits perfectly in the slot between a Verdict & Justice. More stable than a Verdict & more glide and less overstable than a Justice. Plus I got my first ace 2 weeks ago with the Fugitive so it will always have a spot in my bag now :)
I MADE IT INTO THE VIDEO!!!! first time for everything! But seriously, great choices. This will give a lot for people to try out and fall in love with!
I love the Zone as well, but the DGA Breaker is just as you say that perfect ”in between”. A straight Zone that is just so easy to throw. But unlike you I have also always loved the hand feel. I get such good releases with the Breaker!
I retired a beautiful Super Stingray I don't even know if they make anymore. Innova's got so many unsung variant molds to go with GOATs like the KC Pro Roc.
@@seymourglass26 Yeah I'm not sure if they retired the Super Stingray or not... Like I think that Paul said in some video somewhere (don't remember the video) that he actually liked the Super Stingray and was going to make that his first signature series disc, but Innova just made the Roc3 and wanted Paul to have that... But I could be remembering incorrectly and just making that up 🤷♂😂
Wow, that was a walk down memory lane. The Patriot 🤔 What ever happened to that disc. It was so good but then yeah, something new came along and it just fell to the wayside. What a shame. I'm with you on the Emac Judge. It's pretty solid. It's been giving my Lunas a little run for their money.
Yeah I have slowly been using those over the Lunas... mainly because for throwing the Lunas can easily be turned over with bad form... But the Emac Judges seem to be more forgiving in that department while still being pretty straight!
Great video brother, I completely agree about the Evader the new Ricky ones are sweet and I stopped bagging my TeeBird in favor of it. For me though the most underrated and forgotten about disc is easily the Discraft Impact. It’s not even close, it’s a phenomenal disc that I use as my go to mid-range and no one has ever heard of it 😂😅 I highly recommend you giving one a try I throw a 2021 Z-Swirl LedgeStone and like to think of it as a slightly less stable Buzzz. Thanks for the content though and keep shredding out there!
Ooo! Yeah that one looks like a good one! I had never really heard of those until they were on the Ledgestone releases... That's one that just gets overshadowed all the time by the Buzzz! I will have to get my hands on one to check out!
One that's been around a while and I never see in any bags is the Gateway Chief OS in Diamond plastic. It feels like a smaller Harp in the hand but flies straight like a driving putter should.
I have a couple of the 10th anniversary Fugitives. I love the way it feels in my hand, but nothing would ever replace my Justice. I have Bards that I want to think are overstable, but don’t fly how I think they should, so perhaps I should try the Fugitive in their stead.
Oh yeah, I don't think it would replace a Justice in most people's bags because that discs is just so beefy! But for me I didn't really use it much, but this Fugitive being a touch less overstable has much more uses for me and my game!
Westside Anvil. It is just a better Justice. Had one from a mystery box in hybrid plastic that I lost. I beat in so nicely that it would have a bit of turn and would go fly forever with a stable finish. Perfect for a forehand and I managed 90-100m consistently while throwing distance drivers max 110-120m Currently I bag a Locastro Halloween glow Anvil that is such a meathook. I have played with it on limestone cliffs for 4 years and it is still as stable as it was brand new. Perfect utility disc
My choices: -Gateway Voodoo - perfectly symmetrical small bead (best of big bead & beadless). -Streamline Pilot - best throwing putter. Better than Proxy and Envy. Ohm is the MVP version of the Pilot. -Latt 64 Saint - 9 speed fairway. Doesn’t turn and burn, doesn’t dump. Stupid glide! 7 glide. -MVP Tenacity - for those that have 350-400ft arm speed, Tenacity bombs. Will get slight turn and finishes straight. Fast and glidey.
Yeah that must have been a VERY early prototype if that was the same Legacy discs... because their first mold was the Rampage and that wasn't PDGA approved until 2011
I miss the old Fugitive mold. I threw them a bunch when they originally came out and they were the perfectly smooth flip up, dead straight glidey flier. The new one looks like a great flier! But way more OS than the original.
@@ApolloDiscGolf I didn’t mean to come across as rude, my apologies if I did. I think what threw me was going from talking about DGA and calling them “they” and then mentioning innova and calling them “they” as well and then going back to DGA still calling them “they” without saying “DGA” again before it. There wasn’t enough proper nouns for my brain to follow correctly
I love the irony of you describing DGA not being recycled Discraft molds yet the breaker is one of, if not the only mold that is an actual recycled mold 😂. The breaker is an exact copy, no deviation at all, to the ringer (non GT mold)
Yeah that may have not been the best example of a non-recycled mold... But the point still stands that it is underrated! 😂 And I have heard people say the Breaker is more consistently overstable than the Ringer? But that's just what I have heard! I haven't thrown a Ringer myself
@@ApolloDiscGolf I used to love throwing the ringer and never saw any issues with stability being different across runs. I’m a breaker thrower now only because the ringer without the GT is getting harder to find. DGA’s whole line up I believe is so underrated
@@eoghana315 correct but if I'm not mistaken those two molds are out of production and/or only get made in very small, limited batches like what Ledgestone does with older Discraft molds
I think the innova mystere is the most underrated disc on the market. It’s been out for a while. It’s a neutral 11 speed with 11/6/-2/2 and those numbers are bang on. It’s literally a perfectly beat in Wraith right out of the box. I think 85% of people who use wraiths should be using mysteres instead
I could not agree more about the breaker. Grab you a D-line and FH hyzer flip and its the straightest disc. Magical mold. Oh Breakers go far too! they are faster than normal putters, SP plastic & Ice might start off with less glide but they beat in again..magically.
The Ringer doesn't have that thumbtrack on it I don't believe, but the Ringer GT I think is close? I will have to check! I have heard that the Ringer isn't as consistently overstable than the Breaker, but I actually have never thrown a Ringer! So I will have to grab some and maybe make another video comparing them
I love the versatility of the Innova Eagle and I'm always comparing it to other 7-speed fairways to convince myself the Eagle can do it all. The Evader has a sharper fade than the Eagle so it comes in handy for stronger flex shots and headwinds.
Oh yeah, the TL3 is such an underrated mold! I feel like people are turned off by it because the "L" molds are for people "without power" to handle the actual molds... Which is not the case. The TL and even Eagle-L are incredible for just about all skill levels!
Never heard of it until now, but when I looked it up, it's almost the twin of Lat 64's Explorer which is very popular. I bag two of them, but I'm super interested in a Spark after the research.
...I do own a eMac Judge, but I am not using it. None of the others are really something that have drawn my attention in the webstores I've browsed ;P But I probably have several like the ones in the video:)
All of legacy disc are great and I agree their pinnacle plastic is great. The something happened with legacy when they came put that everyone would say...well that's just an Innova... But what a lot.of people don't know is how much legacy spent in designing their disc to fly true to their expectations. They just didn't put a disc out on the market. I think legacy really tried to get plastic to reassemble INNova CE plastic. Don't sleep on their midrange disc they are all good also, and their new putter the rebel is a great OS putter. I switch from all innova to all.legacy over the years when I started to see how inconsistent innova molds are. I started throwing legacy around 2011 with the Rampage and then the cannon and slowly I just kept adding their disc to my bag.
@@ApolloDiscGolf I have the Pipeline, Vortex, and Hellfire. I also hear the Steady BL is like a Luna so that might be a good comparison. DGA Vortex would compare to a Leopard, Pipeline would compare to a FD/River type disc, and Hellfire is a Felon/Firebird type disc.
Non-Berg Kastaplast. K1 Reko and Reko-X are great throwing putters. Svea is the best understable Mid in my opinion. Kaxe and Kaxe-Z(RIP) are amazing straight throwers.
Came here to second kastaplast mids and putters. Reko X and Svea are some of my most used discs. Even started putting with k3 Reko X that I beat up while throwing them all the time lol
Isn't that their Sidewinder/Roadrunner type disc? Those type of discs are also super underrated because everyone just thinks they are roller discs because that's what the pros use them for
I just got a couple Valkyrie's, which I've never heard anyone talk about. Haven't thrown them yet, hopefully today, but I'm excited to see how they fly. Picked up a really pretty swirly star and a glow champ. The star has a significantly higher plh, so should be fun to see how that goes!
I feel like the deputy has fallen from Paige Pierce wielding glory to a disc nobody uses. I love classic blend for putting and classic for turnover upshots. The fuzion burst ones that were available a while back were also amazing mildly understable throwing putters but I doubt we will see those again as they were way more domey than all the base plastics and not well received.
I feel like this happens alot with Trilogy when they make a putter in premium plastic( maybe happens with other companies too IDK). The last thing I want is a domey putter, feels yucky. This is why I throw Envys mainly(pre-Conrad), but Trash Panda Inner Core is sweet for the more neutral/understable slots.
Oh yeah! The Deputy is SO GOOD!!! I agree! feels great in the hand and has a ton of glide for putting inside the circle since it's more understable! definitely lost the limelight when Paige Pierce left DD
I think that happens a lot with any company when you make a putter in premium plastic... The envy is the exception because it is made to be board flat and have no dome. But most putters, like Lunas even, when you get them in premium plastic they feel deeper and have more dome.
@@ApolloDiscGolf drew gibson is throwing it rn. Their plastic feels really good and I really like their mids and putters. Also their glow is on par with mvp and kastaplast
I need to try that one. I threw my DX cobra into a tree off of the tee pad on a tunnel shot and broke the rim. I've been looking for a replacement in my bag. I've been using a Jay but ita not the same
@@joshboyda2632 Keep in mind it's a v-tech disc with a bead (kinda like the Wombat). But if you don't mind that I highly recommend it (Not as stable as the flight numbers say in my opinion)!
@@ApolloDiscGolf Keep in mind it's a v-tech disc with a bead (kinda like the Wombat or Wombat3). But if you don't mind that I highly recommend it (Not as stable as the flight numbers say in my opinion)!
I often wonder why pros don't use very understable and straight discs for closer shots in tight woods or low wind situations. I have close to 0 skills in disc golf compared to those guys and yet I see them time and time again using stable or overstable mids or fairways for a close shot and they don't have the space to go left or right, they throw it straight but it fades super hard challenging OB or giving them 35-50 ft putt. I am positive, that I could get to the basket from that position with nice very gentle throw with a Diamond, I know it's going to flip, I know I'm not going to turn over too much since I want just 40-50 meters and disc has like 11 glide in my opinion, so I put 30% power on it. It's just such an easy shot, opens up the gap so much, goes dead straight. Why for pros understable = roller and nothing else ? I saw this point about Diamond made on review on Foundation channel, this disc makes some shots so easy that it feels like cheating, especially when you can only use your arm due to your lie.
I love a good cheater disc. I think pros sometimes limit molds more than us, so maybe that "overstable disc" is sometimes a very beat version of that mold. But yeah, sometimes pros do force it and hit edge trying to do hyzer flips when they could just throw a soft straight shot with a naturally straight disc. I wonder how little I'd care about bulls-eye if I could casually drain 30 footers? Well, I probably won't ever know, haha.
@@seymourglass26 I mean 50m hyzer flip with super understable and glidy disc is I think much easier than flat shot with neutral mid. Pros are scared of flat shots, they mention it often but they go for overstable hyzers or flexes or something instead of flat, but not often understable hyzerflip. That's weird for me, and most of them would definitely prefer 15-20 footers than 30-40 ones.
@@chrisp9824 Got ya. I'm so basic that I can only throw flat, haha. Try to get me to throw over something if you want to laugh. Even if I have the power, I just throw it wide and low instead of on hyzer up.
@@seymourglass26 Well, lucky you then. Many many people from amateurs to pros would love to throw flat and keep the direction ;) I almost never try it, just doesn't work haha ;p
I think pros think more about percentages and eliminating misses than a lot of ams do... They try to eliminate anything bad that can happen. So while the super flippy touch shot may be easier for you, it's also easier to turn over if you don't hit the angle right, or fly significantly past if you don't hit the speed right, or if you throw is nose up then it won't flip up at all and you miss left. So throwing something slower means you will have less chance of juicing it past, and throwing something more stable makes sure there is only one way to miss... and that's left.
@@ApolloDiscGolf I agree and I wish they were featured around more, I know from experience some of the older runs of westside don't fly true to the numbers,but today they fly truer to the numbers
I think this is much more consistently overstable than a Wasp! at least from the Wasps I have thrown recently. And the rim is slightly shallower and more comfortable for me and my tiny hands! The Wasp is pretty deep actually... I would say its between the Wasp and the Buzzz OS. Has the glide closer to the Wasp but the hookup and overstability of the Buzzz OS
I gotta say ye new runs of wasps have been feeling quite tall when compared to old titanium emac wasps. I haven't played more than 4 years , but I do love old plastic when I find used/new old stock on good price
It’s odd with the breaker becuase Adam Hammes throws it but he’s probably not allowed to promote it as much because he’s discraft sponsored. Uli also throws the ringer but the breaker doesn’t get that recognition
Yeah I definitely think Discraft hits hard on just promoting their stuff.. I wouldn't be surprised if they try to get their pros to move away from some of the DGA stuff to just throwing Discraft
@@ApolloDiscGolf Yep, Shasta Criss Pipeline is a keeper. Would be curious your reaction to throwing one. Goes far for its flight numbers (I think listed as 8 speed)
![FINALIZING THE BAG: Putters & Midranges [I Surprised Myself]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/1rtY_y8Fmek/mqdefault.jpg)
A disc that I love that I don't see talked about that much is the Savant from Innova. I feel there are many other molds that are 9/5/-1/2 such as the Undertaker and Tesla that have more hype behind them. The Savant is really nice because in Star plastic if flies like you would expect it to but then in the Champion plastic it tends to be a bit more OS like a Thunderbird.
Funny story: I lost my precious, a Glow Champion Savant, out at Nevin Park about a week before the Pro Tour Championship on hole 18. A couple months later I'm in a newer local shop(shoutout Down4DiscGolf) and there it was sitting on the front of the rack on the used section. What are the chances?
I actually haven't heard of or thrown the Savant! That looks interesting! I'm surprised that one flew under the radar for me... I usually hear a lot about Innova molds!
Try the halo savant.. best plastic imo for that disc
I saw that stack at the beginning and instantly identified the sp breaker…. Sooooo goooooood! Ended up watching the video and indeed the Breaker!! Stoked to see it. I also think the dga banzai is just absolutely perfect. SP is the floppiest of the Banzais, Pro line is middle of the road and the Ice plastic is the beefiest if anyone wants to check it out.
Yeah I need to check out more DGA stuff!
I think the Mint Lobster and Innova Tern both don't get their fair share of love. Given, it is very hard to find a brand new lobster right now. I also think that until maybe the past couple years when Calvin really started winning, the Eagle was an incredibly underrated fairway. Paul, Nate, Jerm, and Ricky never really threw them, so they lost popularity after Climo retired
I haven't had a chance to try Mint discs yet... But the Tern is definitely a mold that was forgotten about! I feel like that was super popular when it came out, then just went to the wayside when the Shryke was released
I love my Lobster!
Living in austin there's so many lobster and mustang people. If I were good enough at the local mini I could have a whole mint bag by now, unfortunately the oldies of the course hold it down and get all the plastic😂
I also like the tern for rollers and thumbers
The infinite disc Dynasty! Used to love throwing CD2’s and was glad infinite got the mold
I'm in the same boat. Innova Savant also in Halo is a touch more stable
Yeah I heard great things about the CD2/Dynasty! I have yet to try it though!
Personally, I think the Westside midrange group is slept on. I'm a huge fan of the Gatekeeper myself, but have thrown the Warship and Tursas regualarly as well. Pine and Bard both are solid molds as well.
I argeee the pine flies as far as my fairways. The gatekeeper is amazing too.
I agree, gatekeeper is my favorite discs plus love hte bard and tursas
tursas 4 lyfe
I haven't tried the Gatekeeper yet! I will have to check it out!
@@ApolloDiscGolf please do!! Would love to see your reaction to it!
I was really pleasantly surprised by Legacy’s drivers. The Rival especially feels awesome
Yeah they have some solid discs! And I really think they have nailed that Pinnacle plastic!
Great video!! Enjoyed the heck out of it!! Should do more of these cause it opens us up to more brands. Thanks bud!
The Streamline Drift is an overlooked disc, it’s one of my personal favorites! It glides for days
I haven't tried that one yet
I love to see you review one, if you can get one. I think it’s one of the smoothest discs on the market.
@@ApolloDiscGolf I second this, the lift and the drift have been staples in my bag since I got them.
@fish paralysis streamline I feel as whole is underrated, like the child mvp doesn't care about but they still do just enough to keep me coming
they certainly don’t do a very good job of marketing it if that’s what you mean by child they don’t care about, but the plastic is phenomenal. Some of the best on the market in my opinion and some of their molds are gems to boot.
I agree, Legacy Pinnacle Patriot and Rival have been my work horses for a decade, I never see anyone else throwing them, totally overlooked
And their pinnacle plastic is so nice!
Dude the breaker is surprisingly dope. My wife wanted to try it and that discs is great. The rift is awesome. Their midranges are awesome.
The rift is amazing, absolutely dead laser straight for me, it flies how I want my buzzz to fly. The quake, too, is really good. Basically a faster zone, maybe a touch more glide as well.
@@brandonbensel3536 couldnt of said it better. its literally how i wanted my buzzz's to fly.
Dynamic disc's vandal in lucid plastic Flys so far and easy to control. That would be my #1. I got a sick American flag one in used bin for $5 I had no idea if it would be any good and now is my most used disc
Innova did make Ching discs too, but they were new tops on most of the molds that were not new, like a new top for the ROC like Midrange they made, a driver that has a new top they made, then the putter and midrange lid were 100% new molds. They were the only brand I can think of doing this first in the mid 1990's to early 2000's for a brief period from what I was told by others, 1996 to very early 2003 and were stopped due to a lawsuit that Ching was starting over the fact that Innova did not create the Champion plastic but Ching had a flexible version of the plastic for the Ju-Ju. Innova just tried to make a harder version of so more discs could be made in said plastic. When Ching tried to sue in 2002--2003 for the early runs of Champion Edition that was basically an experiment for Champion, Ching molds were pulled including the molds Ching created themselves and destroyed in early 2003. The only reason a few of the Ching discs exist from Millienium in a side brand is they then right away came out with the molds like the Tank, the beadles OS Gator mold they later put under a mini side brand in early 2010's, the Beefy original mold Rhyno, or the M.O.A.B. Ching was going to be making there own molds of discs in late 2000's but again Innova people they shut down Ching from even making the two molds they were going to start with, even were going to use the old Ju-Ju plastic as they worked with distributor to get it but Innova shut down the company with an actual lawsuit saying they could not even make the molds even if they never made the Ju-Ju plastic, at least that was the rumor as Ching did get shut down by Innova, that is the only thing we know. They were going to 3D scan the 2 discs up in 2009 that were the only 100% non Innova molds to remake the molds for it but it never happened becuse of the lawsuit threat that stated they were 100% going to court if they so much as made a disc. This is why you only saw a little bit of shirts and hats.
The fuse is such a great disc. Use it for hyzer-flat tunnel shots, and even use it for putts beyond circle 2
One of my favorite overstable midranges is the Gateway Warrior. Super glidey with reliable fade. Never seen anyone else throw it!
Wild… I actually bag a Warrior and it’s totally out of a random scenario. I was playing a tournament in 25mph + winds, and guy who is sponsored by Gateway was there selling some discs with his stamp on it. He had some Warriors and I asked him about them, because I have been wanting that OS mid slot filled with something that will actually stay in the air for a while but with a strong fade, something that will fight wind. I bought it from him for 15 bones and have loved throwing it into headwinds ever since! Great disc for that slot. I hated how my Justice is just a Zone with a wider rim, literally never threw it.
I am a Warrior thrower also. It's my favorite mid and still reliably OS after 3 years.
I forgot about the Warrior! So I guess I have thrown something like the Fugitive 😂
I would say the Warrior and Fugitive are VERY similar! The Fugitive might have a touch more glide? But it's been a while since I have thrown a Warrior! That is also a great mid! I think all of Gateway's mids are underrated
@@ApolloDiscGolf I feel like Gateway, like DGA, flies under the radar with the newer generations of disc golfers. Probably for similar reasons that you mentioned with DGA… They’ve been around for so long and don’t really have a big name guy on tour.
I used to throw a breaker/gator combo for approaches. It came out of the bag for a while cause I swapped my gator for an entropy and my glow envy kinda had the same flight as the breaker but as the envy beats in I'm missing the breaker slot that non drifting hard putter shot. The breaker is also really great for a beautifully panning anhyzer forehand.
Also, if you putt big bead aviars, the rim and bead is almost identical and make for a great strong headwind putter that feels very similar to my normal putter.
Yeah, the Envy can definitely be close! But the thing is, you can find an Envy that is as stable and reliable as a Breaker out of the box, but Envys are kind of meant to be straighter and glidier, when the Breaker is meant to have less glide and be reliably overstable! So that makes sense as the Envy is beating in
Discmania premium Genius. For me it’s a faster Origin. Great flip up to slight turn at 75% power.
I really like the Innova Caiman, there are a lot of mid range and below shot shaping required for our PNW forested courses and that gets use almost every round. I also like the Kastaplast Jarn for similar reasons. Fun review, as always!
Im a big Caiman fan as well, i dont think the toro was necessary since they already had the caiman. Sure its a touch faster but woopdy doo. Its reliably overstable and works well in that zone slot in my opinion, i just think less people knew about them.
I would really love another video like this, but focusing on putters. I know for myself, I putt with Mobius's and I am kind of getting tired of how they handle in the wind. Everyone here putts with Judges, Aviars, or Lunas so I would like to see what else is out there that might be a good fit. Help!
Yeah I need to try EV-7's stuff! I haven't tried any of their putters yet
There are so many good putters that this would be pretty intriguing.
Nice to see some Legacy being thrown. I'm in Michigan and I don't know anyone else that bags legacy. Patriots are my favorite discs in my bag and Rivals are the perfect compliment. Legacy Sparkle plastic is perfection.
Definitely an underrated company! They have a lot of great molds and plastics!
Two that come to mind for me are Eric DD molds. The emac truth is a great mid I bag the putter is more like the flight of a roc dx(the original kc roc) in the shape of a putter with a lot of wind resistants. It was to over stable for regular putting untill the wind was up. Thanks for the content.
Oh the Emac Judges is great! And I wouldn't say the Emac Truth is underrated... I feel like a ton of people bag and throw those! But that could also be because I am only an hour or so from Emporia
I love my Infinite Aztec. I can’t quite throw 11 speed drivers, so this 10 speed is perfect for my forehand and backhand drives.
Infinite definitely has some solid molds!
David, Thanks for the in-depth breakdown on these. Really glad you talked about the evader and how it compares to the Teebird (love that disc) now I just have to find a lucid (not air) in a 166/167g range.
Yeah the Evader is such a great disc! And I feel like it's not super popular outside of die hard Trilogy throwers.
Have you tried the new black hoof course in Lenexa? It is DIFFICULT!!! Would be worth a video honestly.
I have! I got two nice butt kickings there so far! One butt kicking with my bag for Patreon, and one butt kicking with Ledgestone Wave Two coming later this week 😂
Prodigy A2 - it has the overstablility people think Zones would have
The A2 is BEEFY! I almost like how the Zone is beefy without being meathook beefy... But yes I agree! I feel like people think the Zone is beefier than it really is... It still is beefy though! But the A2 is definitely on another level.
I recently started throwing DGA discs. And dude, youre right. They have some really good discs! Very underrated!!!
Yeah I want to try out more of their molds for sure!
@@ApolloDiscGolf my favorites are the undertow and the pipeline
How is the Breaker's stability compared to the Envy? They seem similar when it comes to premium plastic stability.
Very similar I think
I think you can find an Envy that has the stability of the Breaker, but it will have a touch more glide imo. And it might not be quite as stable and dependable? But they would be VERY close! The only thing is, with an Envy, you need to find an Envy that is overstable and reliable. When with the Breaker, that is made to be overstable and reliable, so any Breaker you buy will be that dependable, stable putter.
Centurion by Infinite is a personal favorite.
Definitely another solid mold!
@ApolloDiscGolf Have you tried the Mint Bobcat? I have always described it as a faster zone. It's definitely a disc I'd like to hear your thoughts on. I'd possible, you should give the whole mint lineup a few throws. Thanks again for all the great content.
@@jacksonweaver6045 I have not tried the Bobcat yet! I definitely need to try more of Mint's lineup
Rival is great!
Breaker, ringer and ringer gt are all similar and i bagged a them until i started using the Berg.
The one Evader i got didnt handle my forehand well but was more overstable than any of my teebirds for backhand. Binned it.
Gateway shaman is a nice shallow throwing putter for ams and the disctroyer stork i got through discmember was teebird reliable for me both backhand and forehand.
*dga pipeline is a great hyzer flip fairway
The Breaker and Berg would be tough for me to decide between! Because the Berg is so unique that you can probably have room for both of those discs in the bag because the Breaker has more finish and flies farther... But they can be used in similar instances as well!
@@ApolloDiscGolf absolutely. I have just tried to break up my old breaker/ringer gt into 2 slots. The berg for shorter and for longer; something like a bard, my beat in drone or something from the prodigy A series.
@@jonc9922 The Prodigy A-series is solid
Dude you have to try the westside gatekeeper!!! It’s crazy good!
Multiple people have recommended that! I haven't... I will have to check it out!
Calvin isn't sponsored by DGA. He throws Innova, Millennium, and Infinite. (All molds made by Innova.)
He was talking about how McBeth had left Innova and how people didn't think they couldn't keep any pros.
Yep, I was talking about Innova at that point in the video! But I can see with the jump cut there how you would think I started talking about DGA again.
The dynamic trespass is way overlooked. It's what I thought my destroyer would be and flies way nicer than my zues in head winds
Oh yeah, the Trespass is solid! Definitely a great Destroyer replacement for most players! You just have to be comfortable with the bigger rim... My small hands prefer the Wraith 😂
When I started out I threw hard forehands only. I got the champion Xcaliber to handle the torque. Extremely reliable disc in the wind and a year on it stands up a tad for backhand but never ever turns over completely and outdrives all my other discs in the wind.
Yeah those are sick for power forehand players! And Nate Sexton shreds with them!
I putt with the DGA Steady. I like that I can find them flat to ever so slightly puddle top.
That's a classic!
The Darth Evader is in my top 3 favorite discs. It was also my first ace disc.
The way you described the Breaker sold it for me. I like the Jokeri as a slot between my Zone and my Voodoo... but the Jokeri is too deep. Breaker sounds like a Rhyno, which is a legendary disc. I keep a beat-in-to-stable Rhyno in my bag to grab the green.
feel like it may have more fade than a rhyno, but yeah pretty close.
Yeah, the feel is definitely similar to the Rhyno! But yeah, I think the Breaker is more stable. And easier to find in premium plastic I feel like. I feel like they only make the Rhyno is DX plastic which doesn't make sense to me for an overstable approach disc... But 🤷♂️
Millennium has a a few of the best overlooked molds. Polaris LS, JLS, Aurora, and Orion LF! They are all OG’s!
Oh yeah! their fairway lineup is also great!
Really nice video. How does the new Fugitive compare to the Method? I use the Method a ton.
I haven't had much experience with a Method... But I would say its a touch faster and more overstable. Like the Method can be a staple mid range and be someone's only mid to cycle. I don't see people cycling Fugitives... They are a little more in the overstable utility mid-range category than the Method is imo
I feel like people are still sleeping on the Jackalope. I see it a little more now but it's easily a top 5 disc for me. It's usable for so many arm speeds, feels great in the hand, and can easily out distance a lot of 10/11 speeds with a great Hyzer flip.
Yeah I have heard good things about the Jackalope! I will have to check it out!
The legacy badger is like a faster zone. Nice for flicks and upshots 🤘🏻
I haven't tried their Badger yet!
Recluse > Badger IMO.
Great video!!! I absolutely have fallen in love with the fugitive disc!!! Gray shout on that one!
Yeah I'm surprised it didn't get a ton of hype, because it's such a great disc!
@@ApolloDiscGolf yeah living in KS I've been looking for a mid like this! It fits perfectly in the slot between a Verdict & Justice. More stable than a Verdict & more glide and less overstable than a Justice. Plus I got my first ace 2 weeks ago with the Fugitive so it will always have a spot in my bag now :)
I MADE IT INTO THE VIDEO!!!! first time for everything!
But seriously, great choices. This will give a lot for people to try out and fall in love with!
💪💪
I love the Zone as well, but the DGA Breaker is just as you say that perfect ”in between”. A straight Zone that is just so easy to throw. But unlike you I have also always loved the hand feel. I get such good releases with the Breaker!
The Innova Shark3 is super underrated. I love using it for getting around trees with a hyzer shot
Oh yeah! I feel like that is just always overshadowed by the Roc3 because of the history of the Roc and all the pros throwing it...
I retired a beautiful Super Stingray I don't even know if they make anymore. Innova's got so many unsung variant molds to go with GOATs like the KC Pro Roc.
@@seymourglass26 Yeah I'm not sure if they retired the Super Stingray or not... Like I think that Paul said in some video somewhere (don't remember the video) that he actually liked the Super Stingray and was going to make that his first signature series disc, but Innova just made the Roc3 and wanted Paul to have that... But I could be remembering incorrectly and just making that up 🤷♂😂
Wow, that was a walk down memory lane. The Patriot 🤔 What ever happened to that disc. It was so good but then yeah, something new came along and it just fell to the wayside. What a shame.
I'm with you on the Emac Judge. It's pretty solid. It's been giving my Lunas a little run for their money.
Yeah I have slowly been using those over the Lunas... mainly because for throwing the Lunas can easily be turned over with bad form... But the Emac Judges seem to be more forgiving in that department while still being pretty straight!
Great video brother, I completely agree about the Evader the new Ricky ones are sweet and I stopped bagging my TeeBird in favor of it. For me though the most underrated and forgotten about disc is easily the Discraft Impact. It’s not even close, it’s a phenomenal disc that I use as my go to mid-range and no one has ever heard of it 😂😅 I highly recommend you giving one a try I throw a 2021 Z-Swirl LedgeStone and like to think of it as a slightly less stable Buzzz. Thanks for the content though and keep shredding out there!
Ooo! Yeah that one looks like a good one! I had never really heard of those until they were on the Ledgestone releases... That's one that just gets overshadowed all the time by the Buzzz! I will have to get my hands on one to check out!
One that's been around a while and I never see in any bags is the Gateway Chief OS in Diamond plastic. It feels like a smaller Harp in the hand but flies straight like a driving putter should.
Yeah I haven't tried a Chief OS before!
i had a Chief OS and i was deeply disappointed 😞. very flippy
I have a couple of the 10th anniversary Fugitives. I love the way it feels in my hand, but nothing would ever replace my Justice. I have Bards that I want to think are overstable, but don’t fly how I think they should, so perhaps I should try the Fugitive in their stead.
Oh yeah, I don't think it would replace a Justice in most people's bags because that discs is just so beefy! But for me I didn't really use it much, but this Fugitive being a touch less overstable has much more uses for me and my game!
Westside Anvil. It is just a better Justice. Had one from a mystery box in hybrid plastic that I lost. I beat in so nicely that it would have a bit of turn and would go fly forever with a stable finish. Perfect for a forehand and I managed 90-100m consistently while throwing distance drivers max 110-120m
Currently I bag a Locastro Halloween glow Anvil that is such a meathook. I have played with it on limestone cliffs for 4 years and it is still as stable as it was brand new. Perfect utility disc
Those Anvils are BEEFY!!!
My choices:
-Gateway Voodoo - perfectly symmetrical small bead (best of big bead & beadless).
-Streamline Pilot - best throwing putter. Better than Proxy and Envy. Ohm is the MVP version of the Pilot.
-Latt 64 Saint - 9 speed fairway. Doesn’t turn and burn, doesn’t dump. Stupid glide! 7 glide.
-MVP Tenacity - for those that have 350-400ft arm speed, Tenacity bombs. Will get slight turn and finishes straight. Fast and glidey.
I had a Legacy disc back in 2009. I wonder if it was a prototype before they were a company. I wish I still had it.
Yeah that must have been a VERY early prototype if that was the same Legacy discs... because their first mold was the Rampage and that wasn't PDGA approved until 2011
Good call on the Breaker. I bag three of them and throw them every chance I get.
Definitely solid!
I miss the old Fugitive mold. I threw them a bunch when they originally came out and they were the perfectly smooth flip up, dead straight glidey flier. The new one looks like a great flier! But way more OS than the original.
Oh yeah, completely different molds! I only threw the original a few times, but it didn't take long for them to discontinue that one 😂
The Evader is closer to an Eagle in my opinion, the F1 also fits very nicely in this slot.
The Breaker is great, ive had one for a while and i use it all the time.
The Sentinel from Millenium is often slept on. Great mold.
Millennium has a lot of solid molds!
9:55 I didn’t realize Calvin had moved to DGA😂
He was talking about Innova at the time
Yep, I was talking about Innova! But I can see with the jump cut there how one would think I went back to talking about DGA...
@@ApolloDiscGolf I didn’t mean to come across as rude, my apologies if I did. I think what threw me was going from talking about DGA and calling them “they” and then mentioning innova and calling them “they” as well and then going back to DGA still calling them “they” without saying “DGA” again before it. There wasn’t enough proper nouns for my brain to follow correctly
I hate tb3 on forehands but love it for Back hand swinging hyzer or flat flex. Big z vulture flys almost the same.
I need to try out the Vulture! That one seems nice! Probably close to a Thunderbird
Just learning about plus rims. You got a video on that? 😅
Not a dedicated video on plus rims... but I do talk about it in my toro review here! ruclips.net/video/NJMiRq4OIpg/видео.html
I love the irony of you describing DGA not being recycled Discraft molds yet the breaker is one of, if not the only mold that is an actual recycled mold 😂. The breaker is an exact copy, no deviation at all, to the ringer (non GT mold)
Yeah that may have not been the best example of a non-recycled mold... But the point still stands that it is underrated! 😂
And I have heard people say the Breaker is more consistently overstable than the Ringer? But that's just what I have heard! I haven't thrown a Ringer myself
@@ApolloDiscGolf I used to love throwing the ringer and never saw any issues with stability being different across runs. I’m a breaker thrower now only because the ringer without the GT is getting harder to find. DGA’s whole line up I believe is so underrated
@@micahmilam914 Yeah I definitely want to check more of their stuff out!
The Reef is exactly an APX from Discraft, the Tsunami is the original Predator, etc.
@@eoghana315 correct but if I'm not mistaken those two molds are out of production and/or only get made in very small, limited batches like what Ledgestone does with older Discraft molds
I think the innova mystere is the most underrated disc on the market. It’s been out for a while. It’s a neutral 11 speed with 11/6/-2/2 and those numbers are bang on. It’s literally a perfectly beat in Wraith right out of the box. I think 85% of people who use wraiths should be using mysteres instead
Oooo, I will have to try that out!
If I’m ever getting tour series discs with my name on it, it would be a Breaker or Patriot! 😂Favourite slots in my bag and favourite discs!
Been throwing a streamline stabilizer in the same position as the breaker
I haven't tried that one yet!
I'd like to point out Full Turn. Their Passport in Priority is amazing.
Would like to get some thoughts on Prodiscus
I haven't tried any Full Turn stuff before! And I need to try more Prodiscus discs... The Jokeri is money!
@Apollo Disc Golf the Passport, and Voyage are $$
Looking forward to a review
The innova valkyrie is a really good disc i see very few people bag
Oh yeah! Definitely one of those greats that have just been forgotten about
I could not agree more about the breaker. Grab you a D-line and FH hyzer flip and its the straightest disc. Magical mold. Oh Breakers go far too! they are faster than normal putters, SP plastic & Ice might start off with less glide but they beat in again..magically.
I personally like how they have less glide! Makes it a little more reliable imo!
Is the breaker any different from the discraft ringer tho? A side by side might be needed
The Ringer doesn't have that thumbtrack on it I don't believe, but the Ringer GT I think is close? I will have to check! I have heard that the Ringer isn't as consistently overstable than the Breaker, but I actually have never thrown a Ringer! So I will have to grab some and maybe make another video comparing them
The Evader is my go to fairway disc. I can shape that thing better than any disc in my bag!
It is such a great disc! And I feel like it's not super popular outside of hardcore trilogy throwers!
I love the versatility of the Innova Eagle and I'm always comparing it to other 7-speed fairways to convince myself the Eagle can do it all. The Evader has a sharper fade than the Eagle so it comes in handy for stronger flex shots and headwinds.
MX-1 has been great, I’m loving the 500 plastic G.Buhr USDGC. I don’t see much talk about it
I haven't had a chance to try the MX-1 yet!
Yooo shout out to the Breaker!! Great feeling disc, flies like like a diet Zone.
A diet Zone is the perfect description of it! 😂
fugative needs to stay in your bag, also the evader, i may die on these hills! Great video!
😂
We will see!
DGA in general seems to be undervalued. The Rift is an amazing mid and the Vortex is the perfect US 7 speed.
Yeah I need to try more of their stuff!
def think the buzzz ss is super underated
oooo, yeah that's a good one for sure!
I gotta shout out the TL3. It's such a comfortable straight fairway driver but people seem more drawn to the FD or the Hawkeye.
Oh yeah, the TL3 is such an underrated mold! I feel like people are turned off by it because the "L" molds are for people "without power" to handle the actual molds... Which is not the case. The TL and even Eagle-L are incredible for just about all skill levels!
The latitude 64 spark is one of the best discs ever made and I'm the only person I've ever seen throw one
I don't even know if I have even heard of the Lat64 Spark before! interesting... I will have to look it up!
Never heard of it until now, but when I looked it up, it's almost the twin of Lat 64's Explorer which is very popular. I bag two of them, but I'm super interested in a Spark after the research.
The original Feldberg Spark was the bomb! Slower firebird. Then they retooled it to have less stability and it sucked.
...I do own a eMac Judge, but I am not using it. None of the others are really something that have drawn my attention in the webstores I've browsed ;P But I probably have several like the ones in the video:)
My evader is more stable then my TB. It was my wind fighting TB slot lol. Both were replaced by my volt though.
Interesting! The Teebirds I have are much more overstable than it! But all my teebirds are old... So I could just have overstable runs
@@ApolloDiscGolf my TB was a 2020 in gstat plastic. I think its weight was 172.
My evader was lucid plastic. I think that is a beefier plastic.
Ah yeah... The G-star discs are more understable in my experience! The Champ Teebirds are pretty beefy out of the box! At least most of the time!
You should do a rocx3 vs fugitive vs malta vs recluse video
Oooo, that would be interesting!
I’m more likely to use a justice in the woods
Interesting! Yeah, I just didn't reach for it enough for me to justify carrying it
All of legacy disc are great and I agree their pinnacle plastic is great. The something happened with legacy when they came put that everyone would say...well that's just an Innova... But what a lot.of people don't know is how much legacy spent in designing their disc to fly true to their expectations. They just didn't put a disc out on the market. I think legacy really tried to get plastic to reassemble INNova CE plastic. Don't sleep on their midrange disc they are all good also, and their new putter the rebel is a great OS putter. I switch from all innova to all.legacy over the years when I started to see how inconsistent innova molds are. I started throwing legacy around 2011 with the Rampage and then the cannon and slowly I just kept adding their disc to my bag.
Yeah Legacy definitely makes solid discs! Their mids are a little too deep for my personal preference... But their Fairways are SO GOOD!!!
Anything from DGA is my favorite under the radar disc
I definitely need to check out more DGA stuff! Their Quake looks really promising!
@@ApolloDiscGolf I have the Pipeline, Vortex, and Hellfire. I also hear the Steady BL is like a Luna so that might be a good comparison. DGA Vortex would compare to a Leopard, Pipeline would compare to a FD/River type disc, and Hellfire is a Felon/Firebird type disc.
@@ApolloDiscGolf And the Rift (I forgot about it) flies like a Lizottl Hex
Have multiple Rivals and Pats in my bag, would be in serious trouble without those discs.
They are definitely underrated discs!
Non-Berg Kastaplast. K1 Reko and Reko-X are great throwing putters. Svea is the best understable Mid in my opinion. Kaxe and Kaxe-Z(RIP) are amazing straight throwers.
I definitely need to try more Kastaplast stuff out!
Came here to second kastaplast mids and putters. Reko X and Svea are some of my most used discs. Even started putting with k3 Reko X that I beat up while throwing them all the time lol
I think DGA has a ringer with Cole Redalen
Beat in a proton pyro. Glidey over stable flat comfy disc. Faster than the toro.
Mongoose in pinnacle plastic is fire
Isn't that their Sidewinder/Roadrunner type disc? Those type of discs are also super underrated because everyone just thinks they are roller discs because that's what the pros use them for
The best DGA disc is the Quake, which is better than Gator, Caiman, Buzzz OS, Malta, Md4 etc..
Oooo, I will have to try the Quake vs the Fugitive!
Patrol should have never been retired. It just needed more recognition. Especially with newer players. Or those who can get started on turnovers.
I just got a couple Valkyrie's, which I've never heard anyone talk about. Haven't thrown them yet, hopefully today, but I'm excited to see how they fly. Picked up a really pretty swirly star and a glow champ. The star has a significantly higher plh, so should be fun to see how that goes!
Oh yeah, the Valkyrie's are great! I haven't thrown those in a while...
I feel like the deputy has fallen from Paige Pierce wielding glory to a disc nobody uses. I love classic blend for putting and classic for turnover upshots. The fuzion burst ones that were available a while back were also amazing mildly understable throwing putters but I doubt we will see those again as they were way more domey than all the base plastics and not well received.
I feel like this happens alot with Trilogy when they make a putter in premium plastic( maybe happens with other companies too IDK). The last thing I want is a domey putter, feels yucky. This is why I throw Envys mainly(pre-Conrad), but Trash Panda Inner Core is sweet for the more neutral/understable slots.
Oh yeah! The Deputy is SO GOOD!!! I agree! feels great in the hand and has a ton of glide for putting inside the circle since it's more understable! definitely lost the limelight when Paige Pierce left DD
I think that happens a lot with any company when you make a putter in premium plastic... The envy is the exception because it is made to be board flat and have no dome. But most putters, like Lunas even, when you get them in premium plastic they feel deeper and have more dome.
The profile of the fugitive looks a lot like the rpm kotuku
I haven't thrown a Kotuku before! I don't know if I have tried any of RPM's stuff actually
@@ApolloDiscGolf drew gibson is throwing it rn. Their plastic feels really good and I really like their mids and putters. Also their glow is on par with mvp and kastaplast
Innvoa Star Vcobra is an super underrated disc!
ooo! I haven't thrown one of those before, but the Cobra is a classic!
I need to try that one. I threw my DX cobra into a tree off of the tee pad on a tunnel shot and broke the rim. I've been looking for a replacement in my bag. I've been using a Jay but ita not the same
@@joshboyda2632 Keep in mind it's a v-tech disc with a bead (kinda like the Wombat). But if you don't mind that I highly recommend it (Not as stable as the flight numbers say in my opinion)!
@@ApolloDiscGolf Keep in mind it's a v-tech disc with a bead (kinda like the Wombat or Wombat3). But if you don't mind that I highly recommend it (Not as stable as the flight numbers say in my opinion)!
But much more torque resistant than a wombat is :)
The DGA Breaker is my putter :)
Discmania Origin is sick!
Totally agree on that one! The Origin is great!
I often wonder why pros don't use very understable and straight discs for closer shots in tight woods or low wind situations. I have close to 0 skills in disc golf compared to those guys and yet I see them time and time again using stable or overstable mids or fairways for a close shot and they don't have the space to go left or right, they throw it straight but it fades super hard challenging OB or giving them 35-50 ft putt. I am positive, that I could get to the basket from that position with nice very gentle throw with a Diamond, I know it's going to flip, I know I'm not going to turn over too much since I want just 40-50 meters and disc has like 11 glide in my opinion, so I put 30% power on it. It's just such an easy shot, opens up the gap so much, goes dead straight. Why for pros understable = roller and nothing else ? I saw this point about Diamond made on review on Foundation channel, this disc makes some shots so easy that it feels like cheating, especially when you can only use your arm due to your lie.
I love a good cheater disc. I think pros sometimes limit molds more than us, so maybe that "overstable disc" is sometimes a very beat version of that mold. But yeah, sometimes pros do force it and hit edge trying to do hyzer flips when they could just throw a soft straight shot with a naturally straight disc.
I wonder how little I'd care about bulls-eye if I could casually drain 30 footers? Well, I probably won't ever know, haha.
@@seymourglass26 I mean 50m hyzer flip with super understable and glidy disc is I think much easier than flat shot with neutral mid. Pros are scared of flat shots, they mention it often but they go for overstable hyzers or flexes or something instead of flat, but not often understable hyzerflip. That's weird for me, and most of them would definitely prefer 15-20 footers than 30-40 ones.
@@chrisp9824 Got ya. I'm so basic that I can only throw flat, haha. Try to get me to throw over something if you want to laugh. Even if I have the power, I just throw it wide and low instead of on hyzer up.
@@seymourglass26 Well, lucky you then. Many many people from amateurs to pros would love to throw flat and keep the direction ;) I almost never try it, just doesn't work haha ;p
I think pros think more about percentages and eliminating misses than a lot of ams do... They try to eliminate anything bad that can happen. So while the super flippy touch shot may be easier for you, it's also easier to turn over if you don't hit the angle right, or fly significantly past if you don't hit the speed right, or if you throw is nose up then it won't flip up at all and you miss left. So throwing something slower means you will have less chance of juicing it past, and throwing something more stable makes sure there is only one way to miss... and that's left.
I just started throwing the Rift and Quake recently. So money 💰
Yeah I need to try more DGA stuff!
I think the Westside Stag Is slept on,
Westside has a lot of great molds that are slept on imo
@@ApolloDiscGolf I agree and I wish they were featured around more, I know from experience some of the older runs of westside don't fly true to the numbers,but today they fly truer to the numbers
for me Fugitive reminds from the wing and shape of flight alot of Wasp
I think this is much more consistently overstable than a Wasp! at least from the Wasps I have thrown recently. And the rim is slightly shallower and more comfortable for me and my tiny hands! The Wasp is pretty deep actually... I would say its between the Wasp and the Buzzz OS. Has the glide closer to the Wasp but the hookup and overstability of the Buzzz OS
I gotta say ye new runs of wasps have been feeling quite tall when compared to old titanium emac wasps. I haven't played more than 4 years , but I do love old plastic when I find used/new old stock on good price
It’s odd with the breaker becuase Adam Hammes throws it but he’s probably not allowed to promote it as much because he’s discraft sponsored. Uli also throws the ringer but the breaker doesn’t get that recognition
Yeah I definitely think Discraft hits hard on just promoting their stuff.. I wouldn't be surprised if they try to get their pros to move away from some of the DGA stuff to just throwing Discraft
DGA pipeline is a sleeper.
I need to try more DGA stuff!
@@ApolloDiscGolf Yep, Shasta Criss Pipeline is a keeper. Would be curious your reaction to throwing one. Goes far for its flight numbers (I think listed as 8 speed)
Calvin is sponsored by dga?
I was talking about Innova at the time! But with the jump cut there I can see how people would think that I went back to talking about DGA...