I'm always so impressed with how quickly the sailing community comes together during a crisis. Outremer is really a standout company by eagerly coming to your rescue. Nice to see that you're in good hands. Seems like Mother Nature was on your side too. Good Luck, thanx for sharing this with all of us.
Hi guys, we met briefly at Vuda. You commented on the hydraulic passerelle on our Amel 54. :) Sorry to hear about the reef. Happens to the best of us. One thing you may want to consider is using OpenCPN with multiple satellite data sets. When I put the coordinate of your grounding location into OpenCPN, both the ArcGIS and GoogleSat images show three large uncharted reefs right in that location. The reason I say "multiple satellite images" is that BingSat photos were taken on a cloudy day. ;) In our 5 year half circumnavigation to date, the charts seem the worst in the South Pacific so while on the move, I constantly cross check between CMAP, Navionics and sat images and route based on the worst case scenario. Sorry if this seems like a criticism but no fellow cruiser wants to see another boat get damaged. I hope this may help you avoid future incidents. I create my own "mbtiles" for OpenCPN so I know I have the latest and greatest sat shots. I've received outdated sat images from other cruisers, so I only trust my own mbtiles now. Let me know if you want me to show you how to do it as it's free and not too difficult.
Would love to see this process and how you source your satellite images and process into tiles. Going to be voyaging in the next year and it seems like multiple charts and images are your best best to avoid the running aground.
@SVTengah are there no plug ins or software that can display density charts that show previous tracks of boats in a particular area? Makes sense that if an area has no tracks, its a good chance there are obstacles there. Seems like a very safe way to avoid reefs.
@@willyum1208Personally, I would find that to be an unreliable and limiting way to pick your way through rarely explored areas. Some places we've been see a boat or two a year. Even if you're sticking to the heavily beaten path, boats have different drafts and captains have different risk tolerances, IMO.
Love how even with this perilous situation you both just digest what happened and figure out how to move forward. There’s no extra drama for the good of views, just explain the situation and keep on with the jazz and beautiful videography. Hope you enjoy a bit of a break and are back on your way promptly. Truly look forward to every installment along your journey.
That sucks, young barnacles lost a port rudder crossing Atlantic. You guys hit a reef. So did we! All on the Port side! Lucky for us it was at low speed, but still bent rudder stock and created a small leak. I have straightened the stock. Small leak will have to wait till haul out in a month or so. Good luck with it all.
Such bad luck it how amazing all your fellow circumnavigators were to help you jury rig a fix. I am sure Outremer will come up trumps for you. Thaks for posting From Devon in the UK.
I'm impressed by Outremer's response as well but also your calmness in the situation. Great video and I hope to see you two in Monterey someday. -S/V Roundabout
On a world rally like this knowing that this level of support is available is very comforting. The other side is of course that the fact that things are happening to you that are mainly beyond your control do make you nervous (at least for a while again)
Video started with such very beautifull images. And then : Wow, that’s bad luck. These rudders are quite vulnerable the way they are mounted. After the hit they are able to damage the engine. But lucky a cat has two rudders and the damage to the hull is very limited and you have your supporters nearby. Go well 👍👍
That’s a long rudder with no kind of a skeg just hanging around out there waiting for a incident , I expected to see a rudder sacrificed maybe avoiding any internal damage, but this rudder seems very sturdy, I can think of 2 incidents where a mono lost a rudder and flooded the boat because there wasn’t a compartment, / I’m binge watching your videos, they’re like tv programs in my opinion, it’s a real privilege for us here to share in the adventure, thank you and safe travels
Yes the rudder is pretty sturdy it’s even on another 55 now as it was barely damaged. Skegs like on the Outremer 51 are not an option at the 55 as the forces when sailing are too big. The risk is than apparently bigger than the reward. We always leave the daggerboards a bit in to take the first hit of anything floating on the surface. In the meantime we have seen what can happen on cats with even keels : after hitting a tree they kind of bounce and then land on the rudder and/or saildrive with possibly even worse consequences. We all have to be careful but a bit of luck is needed as well
It really sucks. Like you said, never a dull moment. But I guess you would like to have more dull moments, or not?! Well, I'm happy for you guys that nothing worse happened. I hope you can continue soon. Happy greetingz, Wim
Outremmer sure as hell backs there product such a great thing to see , Remember when ARCHER was damaged and not being the original owners they were quick to get things done and parts sent out 10/10 Outremmer Glad you all safe and sound
A bit cocky coming from you regarding "widely". I agree Sailing Fam was still small and niche but respectable. You do a decent job, sure, but deliver it bone-dry. You need to be an Outremer fan-boy/girl to follow. I just tuned in as I saw there was an accident. I really liked the tour vid as there was some humor and great info, maybe check that format if you want to go more "widely" @@CatGreatcircle
Very glad that you are safe and have so many great good people near, who give to you a helping hand. The quadrant (stuurkwadrant?) seems to have taken much force. Hoping that you will soon be on your way, with complete repairs.
Sure, I guess helping each other is kind of normal amongst cruisers but this is even more the case within the rally. We hope to be 100% again mid October
@@CatGreatcircle Yeah, I know you just do it for the fun of it and the benefit of others, which is appreciated by us stuck in land locked Autumn Switzerland.
Wow!! ............ I guess kick up rudders aren't an option on such a powerful catamaran???? What about forward facing sonar??? Well done the rally for help and support
Forward facing sonar is useless unless you go really slow. Rudders as on our Nacra would have helped but the forces are way to big to make this work on a bigger boat
We were in the Lau Group, quite remote, but still. None of the other charts we looked at afterwards mentioned the second reef and on satellite pictures you probably wouldn’t have noticed the vague colour difference normally
The names of places occasionally differ depending on cartography used. Would it be possible for you to put coordinates for some places to make finding them easier? I hope you are back to full functionality quickly and not scared about what happened. What has happened to you could have happened to me as well; unavoidable things.
I am very sorry this happened to you...BUT...you were running a much higher risk than I could ever be comfortable with. You chose to go from Susui to Tongan Passage in the morning against the sun - totally inadvisable in my view - and at high speed. The risk was high. I did the same trip a few days later and I left Susui at 14:30, motoring the 8 miles up to the pass with the sun behind me at 4 knots and lookouts posted on the doghouse roof. I watched you and your fleet of friends motoring around Vanuabalavu at high speed in the early morning and late afternoon with some concern. I mentioned this to Inky at the lunch at Susui but he wasnt interested. I hope you get the rudder repaired adequately and continue on. Just don't go anywhere before 10 or after 3 unless it's down sun with good light...
Thanks Nigel for your repeated feedback. Even though you’re just a tiny bit annoying by rubbing in the obvious AND making your point 3 times you are ABSOLUTELY RIGHT (we did say so ourselves by the way in the video).
@@CatGreatcircle And to be clear it's not just you guys - I am seeing lots of yachts travelling in light that I wouldn't. Nearly all of them will get away with it nearly all the time. You just had the bad luck to be the one. Hopefully some other yachties will read this and adjust and avoid what you are going through now. Electronic charts do not help. With paper charts the survey data source is listed and if you look at the sources for Fiji sometimes they are from the 19th century. The technology was a lead line, compass and sextant. Satellite photos have helped but they do not measure depth and can still miss small reefs, patches and bommies. Here in the Yasawas and Mamanucas I have seen several uncharted patches, and have anchored on sand in what was marked as reef.
I’m so sorry this happened to you, but I’m glad you’re all ok and the situation wasn’t much worse. Mark, I may be wrong but didn’t you have forwardscan installed? Would that have helped to spot the reef in time? Good luck with your journey!
No we haven’t got forward scan. Wouldn’t have helped, see other comments. No the only thing that would have helped is wait even longer for better light. For longer day trips it’s always a compromise between light on departure and light on arrival. In hindsight light on departure was more important. We warned the other boats to be careful, we were the last to leave and even more or less followed their track. Still should have waited longer
We are all thankful that you are alright and everyone was helpful and worked together. Two unrelated questions for you: Did you use forward looking sonar (or "regular")? Would it have helped or not? Second, what is an appropriate gift for village chiefs? Thank you!
1. Forward scanner scans max about 50m forward. At 8 knots you go 1852 * 8 = about 15000 meter per hour or about 5 meter per second. Not optimistic that it will help 2. Just a bunch of the kava root you can buy at Savusavu market but they of course like other stuff as well
Yes we seem to have skimmed the other rudder as well and somehow doesn’t touch anything with the dagger boards nor the saildrives. Now we’re just cruising until the parts arrived almost as if nothing has happened
The after sales guy that flies in will first visit another Outremer (Tartine) to help them, you just don’t hear as much about it. So you’re right, it has a positive marketing effect but they support all their customers
A camera? We did look at this during building the boat also to capture special images but it wasn’t easy to create this in a safe and functional way. Top down camera’s and even Oscar wouldn’t have worked in cases like this (below the waterline at 8 knots). We were in over 40 meters of water close to an area with 75+ meters so we were taken by surprise
Check out your charts in detail, and monitor the tide. When questionable have a crew member on the bow to physically monitor your course. Basic seamanship
@@CatGreatcircle I saw your video and the image on the chart plotter was zoomed out. Much higher definition when you zoom in. Fine details do not appear unless you look. I noticed your 'we hit a reef in Fiji', and I watched your video. For the record I've never ran aground champ
The photo is were we managed to stop the boat, 1 mile from where it happened at the next reef. The reef where it happened was where the marker was, 0,6 mile next to the reef before that was on the map. In navionics I have put a marker now saying “unmarked reef” so when you (or anybody else for that matter) sail there and zooms in something does show up.
Having vulnerable rudders on a cruising boat is a design fail. They should be protected. In this case both rudders could have been destroyed making the boat very difficult to manage. Charts in remote places are often inaccurate, the boat needs to deal with that fact safely.
Dear Chris I’ve had a look at your website and it’s only fair you get a chance to point out your USP as well. There seems to be some room for improvement on other aspects though as you make our friends boat Im’possible look like a modern cat 😎
We still feel lucky, as others have already commented it could have ended worse and we shouldn’t have given in to our original plan to wait longer for better light. Another lesson learned.
Problem with these $2M fibreglass boats is that although they look great, they disintegrate with any contact in real world conditions.... a world cruiser really should have a kick-up rudder. I think you should consider yourself lucky that it wasn't the sail drive which would have probably sunk your investment.
I'm always so impressed with how quickly the sailing community comes together during a crisis. Outremer is really a standout company by eagerly coming to your rescue. Nice to see that you're in good hands. Seems like Mother Nature was on your side too. Good Luck, thanx for sharing this with all of us.
Hi guys, we met briefly at Vuda. You commented on the hydraulic passerelle on our Amel 54. :) Sorry to hear about the reef. Happens to the best of us.
One thing you may want to consider is using OpenCPN with multiple satellite data sets. When I put the coordinate of your grounding location into OpenCPN, both the ArcGIS and GoogleSat images show three large uncharted reefs right in that location. The reason I say "multiple satellite images" is that BingSat photos were taken on a cloudy day. ;)
In our 5 year half circumnavigation to date, the charts seem the worst in the South Pacific so while on the move, I constantly cross check between CMAP, Navionics and sat images and route based on the worst case scenario.
Sorry if this seems like a criticism but no fellow cruiser wants to see another boat get damaged. I hope this may help you avoid future incidents. I create my own "mbtiles" for OpenCPN so I know I have the latest and greatest sat shots. I've received outdated sat images from other cruisers, so I only trust my own mbtiles now. Let me know if you want me to show you how to do it as it's free and not too difficult.
Would love to see this process and how you source your satellite images and process into tiles. Going to be voyaging in the next year and it seems like multiple charts and images are your best best to avoid the running aground.
@@KeithStrang Sailing Aquarius has probably one of the most detailed videos on satellite overlay here:
ruclips.net/video/-52N_Xk1o44/видео.html
@SVTengah are there no plug ins or software that can display density charts that show previous tracks of boats in a particular area? Makes sense that if an area has no tracks, its a good chance there are obstacles there. Seems like a very safe way to avoid reefs.
@@willyum1208Personally, I would find that to be an unreliable and limiting way to pick your way through rarely explored areas.
Some places we've been see a boat or two a year.
Even if you're sticking to the heavily beaten path, boats have different drafts and captains have different risk tolerances, IMO.
Yet again a great fleet/rally and support from Outremer. Fair winds.
Sorry that happened! Nice that Outremer has your back as usual.
Relieved that everyone is okay and the problem won't stop you. Wonderful how everyone came together to help.
Love how even with this perilous situation you both just digest what happened and figure out how to move forward. There’s no extra drama for the good of views, just explain the situation and keep on with the jazz and beautiful videography. Hope you enjoy a bit of a break and are back on your way promptly. Truly look forward to every installment along your journey.
That sucks, young barnacles lost a port rudder crossing Atlantic. You guys hit a reef. So did we! All on the Port side!
Lucky for us it was at low speed, but still bent rudder stock and created a small leak. I have straightened the stock.
Small leak will have to wait till haul out in a month or so.
Good luck with it all.
Such bad luck it how amazing all your fellow circumnavigators were to help you jury rig a fix. I am sure Outremer will come up trumps for you. Thaks for posting From Devon in the UK.
Me too Chris. South Devon, near Loddiswell!
I'm impressed by Outremer's response as well but also your calmness in the situation. Great video and I hope to see you two in Monterey someday. -S/V Roundabout
On a world rally like this knowing that this level of support is available is very comforting. The other side is of course that the fact that things are happening to you that are mainly beyond your control do make you nervous (at least for a while again)
It's not bad luck. It's poor sailing. Don't go motoring around Fiji when you can't see.
Video started with such very beautifull images. And then : Wow, that’s bad luck. These rudders are quite vulnerable the way they are mounted. After the hit they are able to damage the engine. But lucky a cat has two rudders and the damage to the hull is very limited and you have your supporters nearby. Go well 👍👍
That’s a long rudder with no kind of a skeg just hanging around out there waiting for a incident , I expected to see a rudder sacrificed maybe avoiding any internal damage, but this rudder seems very sturdy, I can think of 2 incidents where a mono lost a rudder and flooded the boat because there wasn’t a compartment, / I’m binge watching your videos, they’re like tv programs in my opinion, it’s a real privilege for us here to share in the adventure, thank you and safe travels
Yes the rudder is pretty sturdy it’s even on another 55 now as it was barely damaged. Skegs like on the Outremer 51 are not an option at the 55 as the forces when sailing are too big. The risk is than apparently bigger than the reward.
We always leave the daggerboards a bit in to take the first hit of anything floating on the surface.
In the meantime we have seen what can happen on cats with even keels : after hitting a tree they kind of bounce and then land on the rudder and/or saildrive with possibly even worse consequences.
We all have to be careful but a bit of luck is needed as well
Sheesh stay safe and keep rolling! Glad it was not more serious! 👍👍 Way to emergency repair it! 👍👍🛠🛠
Reminds me of a person at the marina my boat is at. I admired her Bentley her reply was thanks they give me free wash jobs and oil changes😁👍
It really sucks. Like you said, never a dull moment. But I guess you would like to have more dull moments, or not?! Well, I'm happy for you guys that nothing worse happened. I hope you can continue soon.
Happy greetingz,
Wim
All the luck in the world with the repairs in the boat. We are really thinking about both of you. Cheers from Canary Islands ❤️👍👍
Good recovery job! Thats part of it . Know what you are doing . then move on to that great camera work . Thanks you for it
Outremmer sure as hell backs there product such a great thing to see , Remember when ARCHER was damaged and not being the original owners they were quick to get things done and parts sent out 10/10 Outremmer
Glad you all safe and sound
Fair play but i guess it will not be cheap
Probably helps to be a widely viewed RUclipsr
Widely is a big word here but even then it really looks like other Outremers get similar support
A bit cocky coming from you regarding "widely". I agree Sailing Fam was still small and niche but respectable. You do a decent job, sure, but deliver it bone-dry. You need to be an Outremer fan-boy/girl to follow. I just tuned in as I saw there was an accident. I really liked the tour vid as there was some humor and great info, maybe check that format if you want to go more "widely" @@CatGreatcircle
Please read this thread again and you might see that I completely agree with you on this point Sjakie….
Very glad that you are safe and have so many great good people near, who give to you a helping hand.
The quadrant (stuurkwadrant?) seems to have taken much force.
Hoping that you will soon be on your way, with complete repairs.
Sure, I guess helping each other is kind of normal amongst cruisers but this is even more the case within the rally. We hope to be 100% again mid October
It's frustrating to see the reefs on the way back. Well done for overcoming this accident!
Just before it happened we saw the reef that did show on the map and it kind of gives you a false sense of security
Funny how the reefs were visible on the way back....if only they had done the trip at the right time of day with the sun behind them
Expensive way of making an entertaining video.
Yes indeed and cost benefit wasn’t the strong point of our videos anyway 🙈
@@CatGreatcircle Yeah, I know you just do it for the fun of it and the benefit of others, which is appreciated by us stuck in land locked Autumn Switzerland.
Just saw Inky and Aakaroa anchored outside port Denerau- enjoy 🇫🇯
Don’t forget Endless Joy …
Sorry for your troubles.
Wow!! ............ I guess kick up rudders aren't an option on such a powerful catamaran???? What about forward facing sonar???
Well done the rally for help and support
Forward facing sonar is useless unless you go really slow. Rudders as on our Nacra would have helped but the forces are way to big to make this work on a bigger boat
Oef schrikken. Zelfredzaamheid to be admired👍
Zeker schrikken, ook nu schrikken we nog (even hoop ik) van elk geluid
Glad you guys are OK. How can a reef not be charted in a place as busy as Fiji! Are these Navionics maps? Will you be contacting them?
We were in the Lau Group, quite remote, but still. None of the other charts we looked at afterwards mentioned the second reef and on satellite pictures you probably wouldn’t have noticed the vague colour difference normally
The charts in Fiji are from a survey 100 years old. They are nonsense. You need to use your eyes. These guys went against the light. Not smart.
well done
Oh bummer! seems like maybe a small MIG aluminum welder would be a nice addition to have in the cruiser 'toolbox' !
or should I say Aluminium...
W chartshen something like this happens do you advise Navionics so they can change the charts?
We’ve put a community edit in the navionics chart so at least all navionics users who sync them are warned now
Interesting the reef wasn't on the map .Shows how easy this kind of thing can happen .
The names of places occasionally differ depending on cartography used. Would it be possible for you to put coordinates for some places to make finding them easier?
I hope you are back to full functionality quickly and not scared about what happened.
What has happened to you could have happened to me as well; unavoidable things.
I am very sorry this happened to you...BUT...you were running a much higher risk than I could ever be comfortable with. You chose to go from Susui to Tongan Passage in the morning against the sun - totally inadvisable in my view - and at high speed. The risk was high. I did the same trip a few days later and I left Susui at 14:30, motoring the 8 miles up to the pass with the sun behind me at 4 knots and lookouts posted on the doghouse roof. I watched you and your fleet of friends motoring around Vanuabalavu at high speed in the early morning and late afternoon with some concern. I mentioned this to Inky at the lunch at Susui but he wasnt interested. I hope you get the rudder repaired adequately and continue on. Just don't go anywhere before 10 or after 3 unless it's down sun with good light...
Thanks Nigel for your repeated feedback. Even though you’re just a tiny bit annoying by rubbing in the obvious AND making your point 3 times you are ABSOLUTELY RIGHT (we did say so ourselves by the way in the video).
@@CatGreatcircle And to be clear it's not just you guys - I am seeing lots of yachts travelling in light that I wouldn't. Nearly all of them will get away with it nearly all the time. You just had the bad luck to be the one. Hopefully some other yachties will read this and adjust and avoid what you are going through now. Electronic charts do not help. With paper charts the survey data source is listed and if you look at the sources for Fiji sometimes they are from the 19th century. The technology was a lead line, compass and sextant. Satellite photos have helped but they do not measure depth and can still miss small reefs, patches and bommies. Here in the Yasawas and Mamanucas I have seen several uncharted patches, and have anchored on sand in what was marked as reef.
@@CatGreatcircle 😂👍🍷
I’m so sorry this happened to you, but I’m glad you’re all ok and the situation wasn’t much worse. Mark, I may be wrong but didn’t you have forwardscan installed? Would that have helped to spot the reef in time? Good luck with your journey!
No we haven’t got forward scan. Wouldn’t have helped, see other comments. No the only thing that would have helped is wait even longer for better light. For longer day trips it’s always a compromise between light on departure and light on arrival. In hindsight light on departure was more important. We warned the other boats to be careful, we were the last to leave and even more or less followed their track. Still should have waited longer
We are all thankful that you are alright and everyone was helpful and worked together. Two unrelated questions for you: Did you use forward looking sonar (or "regular")? Would it have helped or not? Second, what is an appropriate gift for village chiefs? Thank you!
1. Forward scanner scans max about 50m forward. At 8 knots you go 1852 * 8 = about 15000 meter per hour or about 5 meter per second. Not optimistic that it will help
2. Just a bunch of the kava root you can buy at Savusavu market but they of course like other stuff as well
Could end up much worse. This is just a "little dent". You will keep rolling in no time. Good luck!
Yes we seem to have skimmed the other rudder as well and somehow doesn’t touch anything with the dagger boards nor the saildrives. Now we’re just cruising until the parts arrived almost as if nothing has happened
@@CatGreatcircle great to hear! and thank you for all your videos, very motivating :)
What a shame, I m so sorry for you
What app do you reference in the video?
Probably “Fiji sailing” app
Vuda Point Marina is a great place to take your bozt. The people there could not be any nicer and helpful.
They really are
Doodoo occurs, luckily not a big deal so life goes on.
Outremer reacted quickly because this is an ad campaign for Outremer.
The after sales guy that flies in will first visit another Outremer (Tartine) to help them, you just don’t hear as much about it. So you’re right, it has a positive marketing effect but they support all their customers
Please install forward facing sonar in all boats.
Wouldn’t have helped one bit I I’m afraid
Habt Ihr eine Ruder Neuigkeit jezt?
Yep, it arrived today so we should be 💯 in a couple of days
Maybe you need a Foolish guy that can watch under your boat??
I was wondering if you could mount a small camper under your sailboat to see how shallow it is when entering shallow areas
A camera? We did look at this during building the boat also to capture special images but it wasn’t easy to create this in a safe and functional way. Top down camera’s and even Oscar wouldn’t have worked in cases like this (below the waterline at 8 knots). We were in over 40 meters of water close to an area with 75+ meters so we were taken by surprise
Check out your charts in detail, and monitor the tide. When questionable have a crew member on the bow to physically monitor your course. Basic seamanship
Always zoom in on the chart plotter, or you will miss the details
Dear Eric always watch videos more closely before giving incredibly obvious but not very relevant comments. Basic communication skills.
@@CatGreatcircle I saw your video and the image on the chart plotter was zoomed out. Much higher definition when you zoom in. Fine details do not appear unless you look. I noticed your 'we hit a reef in Fiji', and I watched your video. For the record I've never ran aground champ
The photo is were we managed to stop the boat, 1 mile from where it happened at the next reef. The reef where it happened was where the marker was, 0,6 mile next to the reef before that was on the map. In navionics I have put a marker now saying “unmarked reef” so when you (or anybody else for that matter) sail there and zooms in something does show up.
Having vulnerable rudders on a cruising boat is a design fail. They should be protected. In this case both rudders could have been destroyed making the boat very difficult to manage. Charts in remote places are often inaccurate, the boat needs to deal with that fact safely.
Dear Chris I’ve had a look at your website and it’s only fair you get a chance to point out your USP as well. There seems to be some room for improvement on other aspects though as you make our friends boat Im’possible look like a modern cat 😎
@@CatGreatcircle Sorry, I'm not sure I understand your comment: "as you make our friends boat Im’possible look like a modern cat"
Yikes !
😀😀😀
And this sail drive on 1.5 mln boat, imagin hit reef wit this......
Hitting a reef is not a good idea indeed. Hitting a reef with (any kind of) the propulsion is an even worse idea
Yes but shaft drive i way better, in such Nice boat should be standard, good luck with the repairs👍
You guys are unlucky
We still feel lucky, as others have already commented it could have ended worse and we shouldn’t have given in to our original plan to wait longer for better light. Another lesson learned.
Problem with these $2M fibreglass boats is that although they look great, they disintegrate with any contact in real world conditions.... a world cruiser really should have a kick-up rudder. I think you should consider yourself lucky that it wasn't the sail drive which would have probably sunk your investment.
Yes brilliant idea that kick-up rudder. That worked great as well on the Nacra F18 we used to have
The Mumby 48 aluminium cat has a simple kick up rudder system. See Sailing Jupiter.