I already thought of what Pageau had said way before watching this video regarding Masculine and Feminine, since I love to meditate upon the Yin and Yang symbol, and I've come to associate Matter with the Feminine since I understood that just by meditating upon the qualities of the Feminine, and came to the exact same conclusion as Pageau, but I didn't realize Pattern is rooted from Pater, even though I knew both of those words. Holy cow. Logos is Pattern, rooted from Pater which is Father. 🤯
Thank you. I knew about pattern meaning father or in a way Christ, but I had no clue about matter. Matrix means womb, and galaxy means milk. It seems the ancient consensus, hidden in language, is that the external God impregnated the universe with the Word which grew into a child; we are that child. But was it a virgin birth I wonder? Like Mary
Very true. I am realizing that a lot of my feelings of admiration, friendship etc get confused with sexual ones. Everything nowadays is sexualized so it’s hard to unpick all of it and realize that’s what’s happened. Very humbling to realize I don’t know myself as much as I like to think I do.
@@zachheckendorf8722 I grew up cooking as a kid and like to cook. I even worked in a fish market and a few restaurants during college. I cook all the time. Now that I'm older, I realize that inviting people over to cook dinner was routinely interpreted as a sexual advance. I'm pretty sure these category confusions are pretty pervasive.
@@PsychoBible I grew up cooking as a kid and like to cook. I even worked in a fish market and a few restaurants during college. I cook all the time. Now that I'm older, I realize that inviting people over to cook dinner was routinely interpreted as a sexual advance. I'm pretty sure these category confusions are pretty pervasive.
This is very timely for me. I caught myself yesterday in mistaking the identity and direction I was giving to a younger woman as a temptation into sexual sin. It hurts to recognize how damaged we are by the world.
Been experimenting lately with associating the feminine within context, or perhaps *it being context itself*. Think about how modern culture has done well to decontexulize everything. All that exists is that which lies within the focal point. Everything in the periphery is discounted. In a world of decontexulization, bodies mean nothing, the only thing that has value is the head; that which is explicitly identifyable. Bodys don't exist anymore, which explains our aversion towards hierarchy and authority. I think we may be trying to unconciously account for this "lack of femininity" in modern culture (as Pageau states) juxtaposing women into masculine roles. It makes sense after all, that a materialist culture would reduce femininity to only genitalia. The feminine is what the heroe is embeded in, the context that surrounds him. Also, note how the Virgin is virtually absent from Protestant tradition.
yep spot on, we're like a confused child who keeps pinning butterflies to a board in an attempt to preserve their beauty, and doesn't understand why it always slips away
Great insight! I'd add that Jonathan talked about the hyper masculinization of culture in another cideo, its worth watching. Our culture is obsessed with naming and in consequence with "speech": social media provides " speech orgies", statements that are detached from context (as you said). Everything has to be explainable, everything has to be pinned. Consciousness of the masses evolved from a cloud to a lance over centuries. I'm grateful for orthodoxy and it's preservation and admiration of the Mother of God.
Oh man, I hope you can help me iron out this idea because I think we are thinking about the same thing. I decided to play the postmodern game in my own way. Instead of naming something masculine, I call it "agentic" and, as you mentioned, the anything that's symbolicaly feminine - "contextual". Context is the body and its laws. Agentic is the idea, the thing that operates within the context and changes the context. Example: imagine you, as an agent" want to deadlift 220 pounds/100 kg. If you are someone that is healthy but never trained in a serious manner, your body (context) will tell you "no, it is impossible within the confines of me". Does it mean it is impossible? No, you can train your body or, in other words, change the context and its laws to the point when the answer to the call to action will be "it is possible within the confines of this context".
@@33BiGBoB33 One of the masculine attributes is agency or the ability to assert will. This is a vertical movement, a rising into an intentional pattern. Not to flatten masculinity into the biological, but this is clearly seen in the rising of the penis. Phallic symbols are related to heaven, spirit and will. Yet we have to remember - why does the phalus stand tall if not the feminine. She which gives body to the spirit, manifesting the pattern horizontally across the earth.
David Deida is another important figure who beautifully describes the difference between the feminine and the masculine and how this matters to relationships. I would love to hear Jonathan and David to discuss their point of view.
The masculine as the informational/directional/begetting force, and feminine as the energetic/receptive/producing force, is analogous to classical thermodynamics where entropy and energy distributions determine the dynamics of a system: it's the interaction of entropy gradients (masculine; 2nd law of thermodynamics) with the ambient energy (feminine; 1st law of thermodynamics) towards equilibrium (affectation; 0th law of thermodynamics) that animates all of creation. There are functional 'trinities' in other areas too. Like in mathematics with consistency, completeness, and decideability. Also, creative processes are composed of variation, selection, and crossover. If our reality is a fractal tripartite network, then the image of the uncreated (God) as Father, Spirit, and Son is very intuitive.
In the hierarchy of Being, what is above is masculine and what is a below is feminine. The soul is masculine in relation to the body, but feminine in relation to the Spirit. That which impregnates or inspires is masculine, and that which is impregnated or inspired is feminine. The masculine radiates and the feminine reflects. These are the most universal definitions I’ve been able to pry out so far. I don’t know how to go beyond this.
Christ, to move to the “spiritual sense“, gives us *his* body through his bride the church (who of course has taken grain & grapes from the earth), as God accomplished the incarnation through Mary. Is it appropriate to conceive of the church as bride of Christ as “giving body” in the Eucharist?
Yes you are literally taking the "seed" of his body into yours and drinking from his cup, which is offering yourself to Him and ritually making you his extension from heaven into earth But i also feel like there's a mystery here in that Christ's seed bears fruit of submission and not domination. In his authority he acts by humility and creates the same in us. There's something uniting this masculine symbolism with the feminine that I can't quite grasp
True enough, but also let’s not forget to add that man and woman are equal in dignity. Talking about man as ,,higher” really can have a bad undertone if not understood properly. Men and women are different, play different roles and the differences are good, but one is not more than the other in value and dignity. And no, this is not progressivism, this is how God created us. Equally loved and equal in his eyes as beloved children. I’m saying this because I know that many young women today have a problem with accepting this concept of masculine/feminine because they feel like it’s suggesting women are less valuable and dignified than men, and as a result turn away from Christianity because they feel like it’s not respecting their dignity. This is not talked about a lot, but it’s happening a lot, so I just think we should be aware of that and always clarify things.
Christ plants the seed in the heart of the person, and as that seed grows, the person is transformed-metanoia. The Church IS the bride of Christ, the inseparable female aspect of his humanness; the material body through which the new person is born via participation in the sacraments. Pageau’s insights are invaluable.
I respect Jonathan's perspective, but it does not fully agree with the manifestations of male/female as expressed in Creation, in animals (and plants). The "authority" or "leadership" aspect of the male is not generally seen in nature. In birds, who are the exquisitely refined descendants of dinosaurs, males are generally monogamous. The female chooses the nest site, and he partners in feeding the young. In mammals the male-vs.-male warrior aspect is more common than any kind of leadership, and old females usually lead the way to the best feeding grounds. In Revelations it says in the end we will walk before the Throne as four beings as one: a man, an ox, a lion and an eagle (old English translation.) So I think we need to go beyond human social perspectives in understanding male/female. Native American culture could inform this discussion. Russel Means often spoke of the balance of masculine/feminine in Native culture. They see the masculine as a warrior-strength which shields the mothers, and the mother-strength in turn protects the infants and also the very old, who are the teachers of the young. in the natural world female seeds (eggs) are very few compared to the number of male seeds (sperm, pollen etc.) What is the symbolic significance of that, I wonder ? What is the significance that males are "expendable" and therefore called to be self-sacrificing ? I deeply honor that quality in men, whether as soldiers, or as providers for their families. I think that is Christlike, and more meaningful than "leadership."
I should add that Jesus chose all male disciples, so clearly men were called to leadership in His work. But that is transcendent work, redemptive work. If we are to understand the spiritual reasons only males were called, we must distinguish between spiritual maleness and mortal, natural animal maleness. If we confuse them, we may fail to perceive how aspects of gonad-driven natural maleness interfere with spiritual work. I detect a smug, smirky little boy in many male intellectuals who speak of these things. Many are men I would otherwise trust, and learn from. It makes me sad.
I don't think only males are calles to "self-sacrificing", Pregnant women also sacrifice themselves for their children more than men. Pregnancy is giving one's own body so that a baby can grow, if that's not sacrifice, I don't know what it is 😅. Not only during pregnancy but throughout life.
Love of the Master is not like any other relationship. Jesus cries put to the Master, to Adonai, up on the cross, and yet we see him as the Master; it's a mystery. Forsaken. Because a Father would run over there and take his son down from the cross, and a lover would stand by his side while de dies; a friend to the end. But the Master will let him die for all humanity, suffering, which is the means for our salvation. The Master will let you fall. It is a unique and mystifying relationship, as the Supersoul of your own soul, it knows what you need to get free. Only then can we return home. Any less than what we need, what we deserve, and we remain bound. Faith is living the truth, not just dealing with it.
Jacob was a father and willing to sacrifice his son. Without the unique and mystifying relationship we would ultimately not be free. Like the Phoenix, immortal. Love of the Master overcomes fear and death.
But when you are attracted to someone you aren't just attracted to their parts but their accidental qualities like virtue as well. I guess when choosing a partner you want something that brings all levels into fruitful community.
In hip-hop "Shawty" is never used for the crew/younger guys, please provide evidence and I will retract my comment. Love your work. Sufficient evidence exists (comments) that in the previous millennium "shorty" was indeed used to describe men.
"Leave it up to me while I be livin' proof To kick the truth to the young black youth But shorty's runnin' wild, smokin' sess, drinkin' beer And ain't tryna hear what I'm kickin' in his ear Neglected for now, but yo, it gots to be accepted That what? That life is hectic!" Inspektah Deck's verse from C.R.E.A.M by Wu-Tang Clan
“Matter” comes from the Latin word for Mother (mater), and “Pattern” comes from the Latin word for Father (Pater)
🤯🤯🤯
I already thought of what Pageau had said way before watching this video regarding Masculine and Feminine, since I love to meditate upon the Yin and Yang symbol, and I've come to associate Matter with the Feminine since I understood that just by meditating upon the qualities of the Feminine, and came to the exact same conclusion as Pageau, but I didn't realize Pattern is rooted from Pater, even though I knew both of those words. Holy cow.
Logos is Pattern, rooted from Pater which is Father. 🤯
I have been saying this for YEARS!!
Thank you. I knew about pattern meaning father or in a way Christ, but I had no clue about matter.
Matrix means womb, and galaxy means milk. It seems the ancient consensus, hidden in language, is that the external God impregnated the universe with the Word which grew into a child; we are that child. But was it a virgin birth I wonder? Like Mary
Excellent 👌
Very true. I am realizing that a lot of my feelings of admiration, friendship etc get confused with sexual ones. Everything nowadays is sexualized so it’s hard to unpick all of it and realize that’s what’s happened. Very humbling to realize I don’t know myself as much as I like to think I do.
I so resonate with this Becky. It was a real epiphany for me to realize that my "attraction" to a person doesn't necessarily mean "sexual attraction."
We see this frequently in same-sex attraction. The admiration or envy becomes sexualized and then affirmed as indicative of one's true identity.
This is a golden thread. Thank you. 💛
@@zachheckendorf8722 I grew up cooking as a kid and like to cook. I even worked in a fish market and a few restaurants during college. I cook all the time. Now that I'm older, I realize that inviting people over to cook dinner was routinely interpreted as a sexual advance. I'm pretty sure these category confusions are pretty pervasive.
@@PsychoBible I grew up cooking as a kid and like to cook. I even worked in a fish market and a few restaurants during college. I cook all the time. Now that I'm older, I realize that inviting people over to cook dinner was routinely interpreted as a sexual advance. I'm pretty sure these category confusions are pretty pervasive.
I like how John Eldridge puts it when he says that the feminine imparts life and the masculine imparts identity.
This is very timely for me. I caught myself yesterday in mistaking the identity and direction I was giving to a younger woman as a temptation into sexual sin. It hurts to recognize how damaged we are by the world.
Been experimenting lately with associating the feminine within context, or perhaps *it being context itself*. Think about how modern culture has done well to decontexulize everything. All that exists is that which lies within the focal point. Everything in the periphery is discounted.
In a world of decontexulization, bodies mean nothing, the only thing that has value is the head; that which is explicitly identifyable. Bodys don't exist anymore, which explains our aversion towards hierarchy and authority. I think we may be trying to unconciously account for this "lack of femininity" in modern culture (as Pageau states) juxtaposing women into masculine roles. It makes sense after all, that a materialist culture would reduce femininity to only genitalia.
The feminine is what the heroe is embeded in, the context that surrounds him.
Also, note how the Virgin is virtually absent from Protestant tradition.
yep spot on, we're like a confused child who keeps pinning butterflies to a board in an attempt to preserve their beauty, and doesn't understand why it always slips away
You think female saints in general can't fulfill that role? Or that the Church as the bride of Christ cannot fulfill that role?
Great insight!
I'd add that Jonathan talked about the hyper masculinization of culture in another cideo, its worth watching.
Our culture is obsessed with naming and in consequence with "speech": social media provides " speech orgies", statements that are detached from context (as you said).
Everything has to be explainable, everything has to be pinned. Consciousness of the masses evolved from a cloud to a lance over centuries.
I'm grateful for orthodoxy and it's preservation and admiration of the Mother of God.
Oh man, I hope you can help me iron out this idea because I think we are thinking about the same thing. I decided to play the postmodern game in my own way. Instead of naming something masculine, I call it "agentic" and, as you mentioned, the anything that's symbolicaly feminine - "contextual".
Context is the body and its laws.
Agentic is the idea, the thing that operates within the context and changes the context.
Example: imagine you, as an agent" want to deadlift 220 pounds/100 kg. If you are someone that is healthy but never trained in a serious manner, your body (context) will tell you "no, it is impossible within the confines of me". Does it mean it is impossible? No, you can train your body or, in other words, change the context and its laws to the point when the answer to the call to action will be "it is possible within the confines of this context".
@@33BiGBoB33
One of the masculine attributes is agency or the ability to assert will. This is a vertical movement, a rising into an intentional pattern. Not to flatten masculinity into the biological, but this is clearly seen in the rising of the penis. Phallic symbols are related to heaven, spirit and will. Yet we have to remember - why does the phalus stand tall if not the feminine. She which gives body to the spirit, manifesting the pattern horizontally across the earth.
This was rather groundbreaking for me. I can't thank you enough for this.
May God continue to bless you in your work. ☦☦☦
David Deida is another important figure who beautifully describes the difference between the feminine and the masculine and how this matters to relationships. I would love to hear Jonathan and David to discuss their point of view.
Concepts like these are so foundational that you gotta pause the video after a point is made and let it wash over your whole mind
The masculine as the informational/directional/begetting force, and feminine as the energetic/receptive/producing force, is analogous to classical thermodynamics where entropy and energy distributions determine the dynamics of a system: it's the interaction of entropy gradients (masculine; 2nd law of thermodynamics) with the ambient energy (feminine; 1st law of thermodynamics) towards equilibrium (affectation; 0th law of thermodynamics) that animates all of creation.
There are functional 'trinities' in other areas too. Like in mathematics with consistency, completeness, and decideability. Also, creative processes are composed of variation, selection, and crossover. If our reality is a fractal tripartite network, then the image of the uncreated (God) as Father, Spirit, and Son is very intuitive.
Very interesting comparisons
I liked this video before even watching it lol Title sold me
In the hierarchy of Being, what is above is masculine and what is a below is feminine. The soul is masculine in relation to the body, but feminine in relation to the Spirit. That which impregnates or inspires is masculine, and that which is impregnated or inspired is feminine. The masculine radiates and the feminine reflects. These are the most universal definitions I’ve been able to pry out so far. I don’t know how to go beyond this.
Origins and History of Consciousness by Eric Newman. It’s all about this and a lot more.
He wasn't original in what he said, lol
Christ, to move to the “spiritual sense“, gives us *his* body through his bride the church (who of course has taken grain & grapes from the earth), as God accomplished the incarnation through Mary. Is it appropriate to conceive of the church as bride of Christ as “giving body” in the Eucharist?
Yes you are literally taking the "seed" of his body into yours and drinking from his cup, which is offering yourself to Him and ritually making you his extension from heaven into earth
But i also feel like there's a mystery here in that Christ's seed bears fruit of submission and not domination. In his authority he acts by humility and creates the same in us. There's something uniting this masculine symbolism with the feminine that I can't quite grasp
Once I made the connection that the Eucharist is what sex is an type of, I couldn't un-learn that lol
@@poordoubloon10 taken properly it should really make you more careful where you uh, put your bread and wine
@@poordoubloon10 can you explain that a little more?
This was very eye opening.
True enough, but also let’s not forget to add that man and woman are equal in dignity. Talking about man as ,,higher” really can have a bad undertone if not understood properly. Men and women are different, play different roles and the differences are good, but one is not more than the other in value and dignity. And no, this is not progressivism, this is how God created us. Equally loved and equal in his eyes as beloved children. I’m saying this because I know that many young women today have a problem with accepting this concept of masculine/feminine because they feel like it’s suggesting women are less valuable and dignified than men, and as a result turn away from Christianity because they feel like it’s not respecting their dignity. This is not talked about a lot, but it’s happening a lot, so I just think we should be aware of that and always clarify things.
Christ plants the seed in the heart of the person, and as that seed grows, the person is transformed-metanoia. The Church IS the bride of Christ, the inseparable female aspect of his humanness; the material body through which the new person is born via participation in the sacraments.
Pageau’s insights are invaluable.
The ending was great !
Love this
The masculine and feminine is also light and darkness, like the way the spirit of God hovered over the face of the waters.
If by darkness you mean mystery, and not evil, I can see that.
brilliant!
Starting point vs end direction
I respect Jonathan's perspective, but it does not fully agree with the manifestations of male/female as expressed in Creation, in animals (and plants). The "authority" or "leadership" aspect of the male is not generally seen in nature.
In birds, who are the exquisitely refined descendants of dinosaurs, males are generally monogamous. The female chooses the nest site, and he partners in feeding the young. In mammals the male-vs.-male warrior aspect is more common than any kind of leadership, and old females usually lead the way to the best feeding grounds.
In Revelations it says in the end we will walk before the Throne as four beings as one: a man, an ox, a lion and an eagle (old English translation.) So I think we need to go beyond human social perspectives in understanding male/female.
Native American culture could inform this discussion. Russel Means often spoke of the balance of masculine/feminine in Native culture. They see the masculine as a warrior-strength which shields the mothers, and the mother-strength in turn protects the infants and also the very old, who are the teachers of the young.
in the natural world female seeds (eggs) are very few compared to the number of male seeds (sperm, pollen etc.) What is the symbolic significance of that, I wonder ? What is the significance that males are "expendable" and therefore called to be self-sacrificing ? I deeply honor that quality in men, whether as soldiers, or as providers for their families. I think that is Christlike, and more meaningful than "leadership."
I should add that Jesus chose all male disciples, so clearly men were called to leadership in His work. But that is transcendent work, redemptive work. If we are to understand the spiritual reasons only males were called, we must distinguish between spiritual maleness and mortal, natural animal maleness. If we confuse them, we may fail to perceive how aspects of gonad-driven natural maleness interfere with spiritual work. I detect a smug, smirky little boy in many male intellectuals who speak of these things. Many are men I would otherwise trust, and learn from. It makes me sad.
I don't think only males are calles to "self-sacrificing", Pregnant women also sacrifice themselves for their children more than men. Pregnancy is giving one's own body so that a baby can grow, if that's not sacrifice, I don't know what it is 😅. Not only during pregnancy but throughout life.
@@tomasparra720 You are right, certainly. But I think being expendable is a different kind of sacrifice, and a lonelier one.
You're conflating sexual selection with leadership. They're unrelated.
Read up on your bible it is in certain terms.
Love of the Master is not like any other relationship. Jesus cries put to the Master, to Adonai, up on the cross, and yet we see him as the Master; it's a mystery. Forsaken.
Because a Father would run over there and take his son down from the cross, and a lover would stand by his side while de dies; a friend to the end. But the Master will let him die for all humanity, suffering, which is the means for our salvation. The Master will let you fall. It is a unique and mystifying relationship, as the Supersoul of your own soul, it knows what you need to get free. Only then can we return home. Any less than what we need, what we deserve, and we remain bound. Faith is living the truth, not just dealing with it.
Jacob was a father and willing to sacrifice his son. Without the unique and mystifying relationship we would ultimately not be free. Like the Phoenix, immortal. Love of the Master overcomes fear and death.
Grape vines grow on trellises.
Shorty
This is why literally created the no homo rule. So we can hang out without Bros without the awkwardness 😂😂
"Animal husbandry"
Yea it's a set up
Hey Mr pageau, do you know your IQ?
But when you are attracted to someone you aren't just attracted to their parts but their accidental qualities like virtue as well.
I guess when choosing a partner you want something that brings all levels into fruitful community.
In hip-hop "Shawty" is never used for the crew/younger guys, please provide evidence and I will retract my comment. Love your work.
Sufficient evidence exists (comments) that in the previous millennium "shorty" was indeed used to describe men.
2Pac - Shorty Wanna Be A Thug
@@ЛазарПријовић shawty is used always with women, the song you posted confirms what the original commenter is saying.
@@truthseeker5447 It doesn't. You just have to listen to the song, then you'll understand.
"Shawty like 14, he going through a street stage" Fred the Godson_ I'm ready freestyle
"Leave it up to me while I be livin' proof
To kick the truth to the young black youth
But shorty's runnin' wild, smokin' sess, drinkin' beer
And ain't tryna hear what I'm kickin' in his ear
Neglected for now, but yo, it gots to be accepted
That what? That life is hectic!"
Inspektah Deck's verse from C.R.E.A.M by Wu-Tang Clan