New rechargeable lithium AA batteries tested against eneloop, one-use lithium, 9v & 18650 cells [4K]
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- Опубликовано: 6 июл 2024
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Rechargeable lithium AAs have only been on the market for a handful of years, and haven't yet matured in the marketplace. I test their performance against other more established small cells and batteries used in electronic devices. My focus is on trying to find the best technology to act as a base power source for expedition use - a reliable way to operate cameras, lighting, communications and emergency devices.
0:00 Introduction
2:44 The contenders
4:56 Detailed test
7:10 Summaries
10:42 Conclusions
Products mentioned:
Duracell 1.5V alkaline
EBL 1.5V Lithium ion rechargeable
GP 9V Lithium non-rechargeable
GP 1.5V Lithium non-rechargeable
Energizer 1.5V Lithium non-rechargeable
LG 10A 18650 3.7V button top protected
Sanyo (prior to Panasonic buy-out) eneloop 1.2V LSD NiMH
Panasonic eneloop pro 1.2V LSD NiMH
Sanyo Denki, 24 V dc, DC Axial Fan, 168.3m³/h, 5.28W, IP68
10A Buck Boost voltage regulator
Coast 4xAA battery pack
Feel free to ask any questions in the comments!
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Project Farm did a really good video on this topic.
Not really the same tests done, but yep of course his videos are reliably excellent.
I don't remember Project Farm having rechargeable Li in his lineup of small batteries. In his bigger tests of the booster boxes, he does shed some light on the effects of cold weather on the Li. That was revealing, and good information for this sort of task.
@@rwun283 ruclips.net/video/CzZrB974Zro/видео.html
My apologies, kind sir. That's a new one that didn't come through my feed. And thank you. A good input.
He does great videos on EVERY subject
You missed an opportunity, it could have been a battery royale
Thank you for doing what nobody else felt necessary to do. I look forward to the freeze tests.
Same here👍
Freezing just cuts chemical reactions in half. It's a rule for all chemical reactions, even batteries.
Nicely done! Thanks for putting this together.
Cheers
Good luck with the expedition. Hope all your gear works well . And it’s a great success. Enjoy your informative videos 👍🏻
Thanks Ian
Great Test! Thank you.
Thank you this was very helpful.
This is like a less excitable Project Farm video🤣👍🏻
I'll take that as a compliment!
I agree that larger lithium cells, in parallel, with appropriate DCDC converters for your desired voltage(s) is the way to go. The working voltage of rechargeable lithium is satisfactory input even if you need 24vdc to drive a fan. But have you considered using 12v fans instead?
The fan here was just for testing. It wouldn't be used in practice with these batteries. The fan is from my expedition boat which has a heavy duty 24v system.
Great stuff!
Very useful thanks.👍
Thanks for all that. So given that I don't understand a lot of the data, what would you recommend for a Garmin GPS (Oregon 750) that takes 2 AAs. Standard are 2 Garmin 2000 nimh rechargables and generally last about 6hrs. Cheers.
Assuming you're working above freezing point and can charge periodically, I'd choose normal eneloops. If you work below freezing, try the eneloop pros. If you work below -20C, primary lithiums if you can't charge, or can't charge above freezing, and maybe these rechargeable lithium AAs if you can (but only for reasons of reduced waste).
I bought many Ladda 2450 batteries based on videos where they went head to head with Eneloop pro, Suggesting Ladda might be one in the same. very happy with Ladda.
Some devices don’t draw much current but demand > 1.2v which makes nimh rechargeables unusable except briefly when fully charged.
Well done.
Honestly I was thinking about getting some of the aa rechargeable lithium ones for something but I'm not sure now.
Informative.
Have you considered the larger batery packs used for applications such as RC aircraft? could they provide any useful advantages for you?
They likely just contain various groupings of these sorts of 3.7V cells.
@@AlexHibbertOriginals most of the RC aircraft batteries on the market are pouch cell Lithium Polymer batteries. they have a lower energy density but can be rated for much higher discharge amp capacity depending on quality and chemistry. I use a 4 cell, 5 amp hour LiPo to jump-start my car on occasion. Its slightly smaller than a 500mL water bottle. just beware they puncture a bit easier than hard shell batteries
@@buckh6233 RC aircraft batteries (especially those for drones and helicopters) are using some very aggressive chemistry. They can keep up constant discharge power of over 50 A and peak discharge of over 100 A, but they are not very durable. They are also very sensitive to being fully charged for a longer time. Most RC pilots will charge their batteries just an hour before flying and *immediately* discharge them to 50% for storage. They're also the most dangerous batteries of all the Lithium cells (first of all they don't have a metal casing and second they are just aggressive af)
18650's are absoltely the go to for that kind of application, and will likely be what you will use in your exploration pack
they are faily temperature resistant and pack a huge capacity, whilst also being readibly avalible w/ a massive aftermarket for DIY applications as power storage
Yep built myself a powerwall running my whole house. Also my ebike is powered by diy.
Great video as always but have you taken into account the efficiency of the Dc to Dc converter ? Some are much better than others
It's a good quality unit - but of course you'll have some loss. The in/out ratio can make a difference, so this would have helped the 9V battery a little. Sadly it was still hopeless....
@@AlexHibbertOriginals Tuff dissensions to be made im sure over this
@@AlexHibbertOriginals Why not use a 12V (8 or 10 cell) pack if you're going to use AA cells? That would bring the load down to 0.5A, which would get you much more consistent performance (though NiMH can handle 2A just fine, if your converter can run at 4V, which that one can't). For alkalines, you're wasting money if you go over about 200mA, so you'd need a ridiculous 16-20 cell pack and just run the fan directly.
Good one Alex, people should remember to do their own testing BTW as the results as you stated will vary between load and temperature etc. For example the Energiser AA's work great for us as the current we need is less than 250ma and in a Balloon there is no chance of a recharge 30Km in the air !!...Off to Antartica in December so this cold stuff is interesting !
You're absolutely right that batteries change behaviour depending on the current drawn. This one punished batteries unable to manage the c.1A current.
@@AlexHibbertOriginals I used 8 1.5v zinc chloride battery it has 12v 1.5x8=12 and I used dc step down to 5v 3.4A out put but it only out put 1A with usb tester I used the mah I got was 700mah to 1000 mah so I tested with alkaline battery and I got 5v 2A output but only 1600 to 1500 mah was the average I got the efficiently was 90 to 97%
What are your thought on the EBL brand in term of safety , reliability, they have AAA Lithium Ion ?
I've not done a long term assessment of enough of them to have an opinion. I find the internal mini-buck converter system too flawed to use for my own applications. I've not heard of any disasters specific to EBL though.
Hi Alex, for operating my headlamp and in-tent light source, I tend to favour non-rechargeable as it doesn't require extra gear (charger etc). But my outings are in -20C max so far, and for a few days. I keep the batteries near my body when not in use. They've not failed me yet, but I wonder how much longer they could have survived, that is, how many AA batteries I need for a week in Lapland. Any inkling? I don't fancy running out of light, but don't want to carry too many either.
I agree that primary AAs are good for short trips. I'm afraid for the power consumption you'd have to do the calculations. I.e actual battery capacity when discharged at your own temperature and the load you're placing on it. Then, work out hours per day per device etc, and add a 30% cushion.
@@AlexHibbertOriginals Noted, thanks for the answer.
Any news on the charging system you mention working on?
It's always a work in progress, and it depends on whether I'll be recharging on the go or not. I'll schedule an episode.
That was a _very_ strange nonlinear load to use, and a strange way to measure the battery against it (output voltage of a boost converter instead of input voltage). It's about a 1.25A (at 90%) load against a 4.8V NiMH pack and your numbers make sense there. It's more like 1A to the EBL 1.5V USB AA and that is at the limit of what those can put out. They're a strange duck. They can't handle heavy 1A loads like NiMH, and aren't any better than NiMH at 0.5A if the 4AA equipment is properly designed to work down to at least 4V. So you're left looking for applications like cheap unregulated flashlights that draw around half an amp AND actually care if the cells are putting out 1.2 or 1.5V. Any decent LED light is regulated, and many AA flashlights can handle LiIon AA (3.7V 14500 cells) directly. As for 18650s, if you are going to use them in series you either need those protection circuits, or a device with a BMS circuit to prevent over-discharge. Better to run two in parallel for more mWh.
You could also test with 18650 with lower mac discharge, in cold weather a lower rated battery might have better performances as it heats up more and maintains a higher temperature.
Plus higher discharge means there is a tradeoff elsewhere so if you don't need as much current you might as well have bigger capacity with lower nominal discharge rate.
Interesting
Great video
Cheers
I found that very interesting. I had read your blog on batteries already. If solar charging is not an option, how will you charge the batteries. My vision is a tow along wheel generator attached to your sledge?
For winter expeditions, and if you're on skis, and not boat-based, you really have to take all the power with you. That means a lot of lithiums!
I've toyed with crank generators etc but alway come back to just having plenty of batteries, and wiring rigs to get every drop of juice from them.
That's a lot of weight to pull/carry.
You're damn right! It makes the need for efficient power use very real.
Will the subzero temperatures make a difference in the run time of the batteries? Try this experiment while the batteries are in a walk-in freezer and you may get a totally different result...
Yes, batteries are affected by cold. I mention this cold test is to come.
I have blink security cameras that I use the lithium energizers in. I try to check the batteries when the cameras go dead and probably about a quarter of the time one battery is completely dead and the other one is at around 1.4v or 1.5v. I don’t understand how one can have no voltage whatsoever and the other still be ‘full’.
Because cells aren't all equal, even if the same 'model', and brand new. Manufacturing and chemical variations will mean more discharge applies to one or two cells, until it/they die. It's why having lots of cells in a battery without intelligent cell management isn't a good design.
Li Primary cells like the blink recommends have a very flat voltage discharge curve. They can be 95% discharged and still read 1.5V.
The micro usb charging seems more convenient than clunky IMO. No separate proprietarycharger to lose/break.
Have you considered more mainstream products like the new Anker powerhouse?
They are generally just a row of 18650s, a plastic case, and voltage regulator. The issue is if one 18650 goes faulty, it's dead.
@@AlexHibbertOriginals yes, but it works as do others
Lithium batterys, especially the AA ones, start at 1,8V due to there chemistry. I got a old Alcatel One Touch Easy, that refuse to operate with 3 of those cells in it, until they are down to 1,6V.
Why not also check 21700 rechargable batteries? Around 5000mAh seem nice.
21700s are likely, now the large capacity ones are available affordably in bulk, to be the basis of my power packs. My focus is on avoiding using cells in series.
In this review though I'm testing the new Li-ion AAs, so even the 18650s were a bit of a stretch in terms of making it a fair contest.
I have a thermometer that needs at least 1.3 V per cell to operate. So 2 NiMHs only work for a few hours. The alkaline quit with half of the capacity remaining. The single use 1.5 V lithium work well, but they are 8 times the price of an alkaline. The 1.5 V lithium rechargeable saved my butt. Now you know of one use case. To compensate for a poorly designed device. There are other devices that operate a little better with the full 1.5 V. Except for my use case, I agree with you. The slight voltage increase does not justify the cell's disadvantages
I Have Duracell copper tops an when they don't work. I put them in my opus battery charger an they charge back up don't take long. Haven't bought new ones in a couple of years
I wonder if y’all are still using DSLR’s instead of mirrorless because of the efficiency differences
Good question Drew. I use DSLRs for long cold timelapses - they sip at the power especially with the screen turned off. For everything else I've moved to mirrorless. I do miss the slap sound of the mirror on my 1D series cameras! I hauled a Canon 1DIIN for 1374 miles across an ice sheet. Should have taken another day's food instead.
The only really good use I've heard for the 1.5V USB AA are motorized things like door locks, shavers, blood pressure meters (air pump) where 1.0-1.2V doesn't do the job. They generate too much RFI for radios. Maybe clocks or thermostats (some crap out as high as 1.3V!) Toys and massagers would perform well, but the constant 1.5V could cause motor overheating if they're run more than a few minutes at a time. The really cheap $2 1xAA LED flashlights work great on them (~750mA) but why put a $5 cell in a $2 flashlight? Same for remote controls, where a heavy duty (less likely to leak than alkaline) is fine, unless you find the control distance is greater (and you need that) with a full 1.5V. You could try Li primaries in a remote, but the 1.8V Li primaries can damage a lot of devices, especially those using more than two cells. Any 3xAA device would be better designed to use a single lithium ion cell.
i think the boost/conversion circuit in them should make them go flat after a month or so, which is ironic because lithium ion is supposed to be good at that. Was looking at the 9v ones for smoke alarms... not sure im convinced they would work coz of their weird voltage, but probably would work better than the nimh 9v usb. my thermostat eats 2 double AA's every 4 months, so i got some for that. my flashlight i keep in my pocket most of the time im gunna try them in, but the flashlights on my home defense guns are going to stay alkaline for now.
Yeah i think a main strength is in frequently used items that never should have taken alkaline batteries in the first place, things that eat AA's like my IR illuminator "night vision" goggles.
btw theyre only about 3.50$ each now days
@@vevenaneathna The boost circuit seems pretty good on standby drain. I'm not noticing them going flat in a couple of months, much less one. Switching power chips have got a LOT better about that with all the battery operated IoT things.
LiIon 9V putting out 7 to 8.5V or so really _should_ work with anything that can reasonably take an alkaline 9V. 7V is when alkalines are at 1.17 volts per cell which is hardly dead.
For the thermostat I'd try the Energizer Ultimate or equivalent. My 'stat is happy with them and been running over a year. It rejects alkalines at 1.3-1.4V and the lithium AA will be very close to dead by the time it hits that.
For flashlights I'm all NiMH or 14500 3.7V LiIon, for AA size. Got no need for a
11:10 What is that battery case you are using?
It's a pack from the Coast HL8 torch. List of products are in the description.
@@AlexHibbertOriginals Thanks.
14500 LiPo batteries are also available. Same size as an AA battery, but nominal 3.7 volts output. I use them in my headlamp, as they can provide higher power than standard AAs. You need devices that can use them, which may be a problem.
Have you thought about LiPo pouch cells for your battery packs?
They may have been a fairer competitor to the AAs, but I had plenty of these 18650s already. That said, approx 18Wh vs 25Wh still doesn't account for the much better 18650 performance vs AAs.
14500 in my experience are only worth it if you really need the smaller size, for example in a really small flashlight. Other than that, compared to 18650 they are overpriced and it is really hard to find good cells (which are then even more overpriced). The 18650 seems to be a way better size for the Li-Ion chemistry than the small 14500.
I have a few 14500 because I like the really small flashlights in some cases, but I wouldn't necessarily recommend them to anybody.
Owh little teaser at the end
There are situations were lithium AA rechargeables makes sense. They make sense in lower drain electronics that require voltages above 1.2 volts per cell. Many electronic devices can not operate below 1.2 volts per cell. This means using a nominal 1.2 volt NIMH rechargeable in these devices would not be a good choice for a rechargeable battery. Not a good choice because the battery would never come close to discharging its full capacity before the device shuts down. One example of an electronic device like this is a trail camera. There are many more devices that fit the parameters of being low drain and requiring a voltage close to 1.5 volts.
Surely much more efficient to have an efficient buck converter to put out 1.2V or whatever you need, from one, two or more cells. Instead of relying on miniaturised bucks in each cell.
@@AlexHibbertOriginals It depends on your definition of efficient.... Just inserting a battery into a portable device is efficient when compared to using an external buck converter.
@@AlexHibbertOriginals Not every device has room for a large buck converter.
I know someone who did a lot of testing of 18650s at low temperatures and they found that Molicel 18650s performed well (not sure on specific model).
Also apparently you shouldn't charge lithium cells below 5C or so if you hadn't already heard :) I think lithium titanate oxide is a chemistry that can be charged at colder temperatures?
I think going for a cell with better low temperature performance than high capacity at room temperature is going to be key for your build.
As it happens, I have some Molicel 21700s on backorder.
Sadly. once you try using less commonly used lithium chemistries, the options drop off from the market.
You're right that you shouldn't charge most lithium rechargeables below freezing as it causes irreparable damage.
@@AlexHibbertOriginals Yeah that's the big issue with the unusual chemistries. LTO seems particularly niche and has quite a different operating voltage range so it's completely incompatible with typical lithium cell circuitry sadly :'(
Be interesting to see how the Molicels perform if you ever get to try them out! :)
Most quality tools that run on single 18650s have protection circuitry built in to prevent cell-damaging under-voltage, thus raw cells can be used without fear so long as one uses a quality li-ion charger. However I can appreciate that if you're using 18650s in series or as a sort of 'fuel' in varying applications you might wish for cells with inbuilt protection circuitry.
Ideally you have a BMS covering the whole series pack... or, use them for stuff that runs off single cells (lots of flashlights, some fans and radios)
Most flashlights do not have any kind of protection circuitry, even the very best quality flashlights. I have no idea why. It's a bit annoying because I have a heap of unprotected 18650 cells but I still need to buy protected 18650s for my flashlights.
I'd suggest looking into 21700 cells as they have a higher energy density than 18650s while being just as easy to work with.
Thanks Tobias. I do mention 21700s at the end, but in this review I'm testing the new Li-ion AAs, so even the 18650s were a bit of a stretch in terms of making it a fair contest.
You haven't considered the IKEA batteries? i have heard that they are good.
I'm certain that if I did a test with 1,000 battery brands and variations, I'd still get a comment like this!
@@AlexHibbertOriginals hehe you are probability right about that. But i think they would be a contender, if you factor in the cost.
www.ikea.com/us/en/p/ladda-rechargeable-battery-70303876/ - Dont know if they are cheap outside of sweden but envelope arent they over 10 dollars for a 4 pack?
In the end is was just a suggestion and you can do what you will with it :)
I vaguely remember seeing an article investigating if the IKEA ones were just rebadged eneloops. Can't recall the result.
@@AlexHibbertOriginals yeah I think I have read the same thing. If that is true then they are cheaper. I know project farm here on RUclips have made a test with the Ikea ladda battery, and meny other batteries.
You should look at LifeP04 BATTERIES, THE SAME SIZE AS AN AA BUT 3.2 VOLTS AND FULLY RECHARGEABLE
The rechargeable lithiums are good for me for such devices as multimeters and battery testers that might sit idle for a fair amount of time. I don’t have to worry about them being destroyed by leaky alkaline batteries when not being used.
You have to be worried about DC-DC converters draining an internal cell and device not working without recharging those batteries
@@volodumurkalunyak4651 Sorry, I’m not quite following you. Can you clarify?
@@volodumurkalunyak4651 Not following. Can you clarify?
@@F16_viper_pilot it effectievly does have self-discharge. Furthermore those batteries output constant voltage so it is hard to know how charged each one is (untill empty - that one doesnt output anything or full one - charger says it is indeed full).
@@volodumurkalunyak4651 Okay, well the fact it may have self discharge is not an issue. Lithium batteries do not readily self-discharge compared to something like NiCd cells. As for the device reporting a false capacity reading, I can live with that. The one thing I can’t live with is a battery spilling its guts and destroying a several hundred dollar meter.
I think those rechargeable Lithium batteries are only worth it in devices that need a higher voltage rechargeable. For instance, I have an indoor/outdoor thermometer that uses 2 AA cells in series. It eats batteries very quickly. Rechargeable batteries like NiMh won't work with it, I tried. I converted it to 18650 LiIon cells, 3 in parallel. Now it lasts for several months before I need to swap out cells.
Consider a well insulated and heated power pack, malfunctioning communication equipment due to frozen batteries has been a factor in many disasters on Mount Everest and K2.
A body heat warmed power pack is more or less what I refer to at the end of the video. For emergency gear though (EPLB and sat phone) you always just make sure one full battery is kept ready for use.
Tesla's, were famously powered by 18650's, all 7104 of them. They've switched to 21700's
I use 18650's for torches, I like the Panasonic 3.4 Ah, few quid each. Very good energy density.
Charging & discharging is problematic when cold. (Derating recommended)
Who knew! Apart from all the people who knew. I didn't...
thank you so much.. guess rechargeable Li-ion aa and aaa is not there yet .. Just bought the Opus BT-C3100 to add to my PowerEx MH-C9000 that doesn't charge Li-ion batteries.. Still it's always nice to have a spare charger even if my MH-C9000 is from 2009 and still running as a champ haha.. But i have a couple of 18650 from TrustFire i can now charge ..
Unsurprisingly, the 18650 outperformed everyone else overall, keeping a steady 24V output to the bitter end for the longest.
The rechargeable Lithium Ion batteries (cells) are fine for electric candles and flashlights, but cannot be used for AM (medium wave) radios. This is due to the protection circuit blocking AM/SW signals.
Correction: It's the constant stepdown circuit noise that trashes the AM signal.
Have you looked at hydrogen fuel cells? Your expeditions might be one of the few places (other than the space shuttle) where you need to carry lots of energy, but not enough to be worth carrying a generator.
I suspect $ and general tech compatibility would be the limiting factor. Also, no idea about how it works in the cold. For example, the water created would freeze rapidly on my journeys - perhaps clogging the system.
Basically you get what you pay for, I own that Nitecore proprietary battery he showed. It doesn't joke around it is serious and quite a few dangerous hunting buddies rely on them. They have many times the power than the one use lithium silvers you showed. But also cost as much as an entire 16pack of those, but is also rechargeable for years. You get what you pay for, as true as it ever will be.
So the GP AA seem to me the best option for standard size.
Ofcourse the green larger battery or its bigger brother the yellow one are a great costom size option.
It might also be worth looking at batteries used for remote control model cars boats ect. If my memory serves me well the looked very simular to your larger batteries, put out a lot of power and are rechargeable.
Only if you don't mind the fact the GP couldn't output full power for very long. It kept up 'nearly' full power for a while though.
@@AlexHibbertOriginals Whether they output "full power" depends on the load. And, with all due respect, that was a VERY strange and non-representative (of what others will probably be powering) load.
have you considered 14500?
There's a massive range of 3.2v and 3.7v cells in different sizes. I could have used any really, with correspondingly higher or lower capacities. To be slightly fairer, I could have used 2500mAh 18650s instead of 3500mAh ones.
@@AlexHibbertOriginals a 14500 has the exact same dimension as a AA Battery
@@Koto-Sama 14500 is a bad size for lithium cells. Only get them if you really need the small form factor, otherwise 18650 are better. The 14500 are way more expensive and it's hard to even find good cells. And even the good ones only have ~900 mAh and they have a lower lifespan than 18650.
I have a bunch of the 14500 for small flashlights, but they are annoying cells. I bought way too many for 12-15 bucks each to even find one good model that supports a full 3 minute overdrive on one of my mini flashlights.
good old white eneloops,always reliable,but with 18650's they are quite old tech
Probably not the first to mention it, but isn’t this what load balancing circuitry is for?
For cells in series or parallel? I've had a few powerbanks fail because this didn't work properly, and one of the 18650s inside ended up with its charge dropping below the others. For many head torch power packs for example, the cells are in a simple series layout and there's no control to limit uneven discharge.
@@AlexHibbertOriginals I'm no expert, but I believe any combination of parallel and series can be achieved with the correct circuitry. I've seen some videos of people making DIY powerwalls, and they use balancing control boards to keep the cells even
@@AlexHibbertOriginals RC battery packs always have balancing cables connected to a second plug. You then connect that balancing plug to the balancer input of the charger. That way, there's no electronics needed in the serial battery packs, the electronics is all in the charger.
You can look up how to connect the balancing cables to the battery cells in the pack, it's quite simple.
The main thing I use AA batteries for is wireless mic transmitters and receivers. Low current applications. The Li-Ion AA cells are great. They start with a higher voltage the NiMH and keep the 1.5v voltage throughout their dicharge cycle. No weaker signal as the battery drains. The only problem is that battery meters give meaningless information about charge remaining. No warning before they shut down.
For higher power applications I have started using USB power banks. A good amount of power in a compact rugged case at a modest price.
You point out a key wekaness, in that you get no warning, unless you record the mAh drawn, and know the discharge rate to apply to the right curve.
USB powerbanks generally (not all) use a handful of 18650s.
Are wireless mics really not designed to transmit at the same power regardless of battery voltage? That's pretty disappointing considering the cost of most of them. However, if you do use them, look for the LiIon AA 1.5V cells that use a separate charger instead of having a USB port. EBL makes them (red label) as does Tenavolts and a few other brands. Same circuitry, a little more capacity, but no USB port. The "charger" just puts 5V across them and the cells handle managing the charge of their LiIon internal cell. The EBL, at least, step down to 1.0-1.1V when they hit like 90-95% discharge, so you get a little warning.
@@radellaf Weaker signal was a poor choice of words. Minumum working voltage? There is a minimum battery voltage at which the transmiter stops working. Better batteries start from a higher voltage so they have a longer operating voltage time.
Professional alkaline batteries are 1.6v. Standard alkaline batteries are 1.5v and NiMH batteries are 1.4v. The better batteries give you a longer time before the device stops working.
@@robertharker Interesting. Well, if the RFI from the boost circuit in these doesn't cause any problems then sounds like a good application for them. The reds will give a warning, but it's pretty late. I guess the advantage vs procells is you can always start a show with a fully charged set. Only other use for these seems to be short-running motorized devices like shavers and door locks, or things that cost less than one of the batteries (~$5).
The Sennheiser EW G4 100 and 500 series work really, really well with Eneloop rechargeables. The longest I have used one was 7.5 hours at 50 meters distance with obstacles in between and it was still going. Never noticed a drop in signal strength with weak batteries.
AA Alkaline batteries drop their voltage almost linear while Eneloop NiMH start lower, but then stay in the 1.30-1.20 range for a long time. You can usually squeeze more mAh out of Eneloops than out of AA alkalines in most devices.
For something like a gameboy, i can see those lithium 3300 mwh ones running for days, but the micro usb charging is clunky, and risking a Gameboy with lithium seems stupid
Great effort, but I'm concerned about the methodology. It's pretty rare when batteries are stepped up, so the test doesn't simulate real world situations. There's a lot of loss in the step up as heat. If you had actually measured the input current as well as voltage then you could have calculated VxA = power used and then add that up for a meaningful comparison value. Your score is highly affected by the lower current provided by some batteries which presumably led to lower output voltages. In particular you rate the EBL worst, but actually it lasted the longest. In a real world test which had a normal load such as a regular headlamp, it could turn out that the EBL did much better.
Cheers. It's a long time since I did it but I'll check over your points when I get a sec. I recall it wasn't a perfectly controlled test, more a 'real world head to head', but I'll revert.
Order of vocab with respect to real world components.
battery cell >> battery module >> battery pack
Or
AA >> 12V Battery >> Tesla Power Wall
(Note that the above doesn't say that Power Wall comprises 12V batteries, it's saying that Power Wall is a battery pack)
Battery pack = battery module(s) + smarts
I don't want to put anything lithium without the control circuity in a device in my pocket, so close to such a sensitive part of my anatomy, these firework like batteries always used to be illegal.
18650s were never illegal, though there are shipping restrictions on LiIon and Li primary cells. Mostly, you don't want CHEAP or counterfeit LiIon or LiPo cells in your pocket.
Ikea ladda and eneloops and Duracell are the best ni-mh baterries in the market. Apparently the laddas from idea are rebranded eneloop and they cost twice as less. The test has been done and theres almost no difference
Its random.
In some country ladda made by fujitsu
The problem with Ikea or any other re-labeled batteries is: you never know. They might have been re-labelled Eneloops today, they could be GP or whatever tomorrow. They might be different cells in different countries or regions.
@@maximilianmustermann5763 made in japan always better than made in china
@@maximilianmustermann5763 checking where the product was made says a lot
I got my Samsung 18650 battery for the torch from a vape shop.
Those 18650's get hot when discharging in any of my serious flashlights. Wouldn't that dispell any cold weather issues you come in contact with when using them constant? I've never even seen snow so that might be a dumbass question.
I've only used ones that draw 2 or 3 amps, and they don't get hot at that current. In any case, -40 degrees temperatures will certainly 'overpower' any internally generated heat.
Try the LiFePo4 battery, they are stronger and more reliable than traditiona Lithium battery. I think that this type is more usefull for your type of xepedition.
The issue for a weight-limited expedition is the much lower energy density of lithium iron phosphate cells.
@@AlexHibbertOriginals, sure but (I'm not an expert, and this are only assumption), the resistance of LiFePo at low temperature allow you to balance the lower density with the faster discharge that normal lithium battery have at low temperature (and also bigger lifetime)
For expedition use self-discharge isn't a massive concern due to the time scales involved (weeks or a few months). In terms of discharge demands, you're never really asking for more than 5A at an absolute push, even with torch, USB charger and camera on simultaneously. So, the better discharge curve of the iron phosphate cells wouldn't compensate for having half the energy density.
Another potential issue with LFP cells outdoors is the absolute prohibition on recharging them at or below freezing temperatures, which irreversibly damages them.
Any non-preheated lithium batteries have to be charged above 0degC. On an expedition you'd either use the cells just once, or ensure they are charged in relative warmth.
Using mAh is a bad way of sizing batteries because the numbers are only comparable between batteries of the same type/voltage. mWh is a much better unit because it allows us to compare different types of battery.
For example:
A 1.2v Nimh battery rated at 2500mAh has a true capacity of 1.2*2500 = 3000mWh
A 3.7v Li-ion battery rated at 756mAh has a true capacity of 3.7*756= 2800mWh
I'm not sure I see why this is a big deal, as long as you know the relationship between power, current and voltage.
Only quoting in watts means you don't make it clear what voltage each battery group is bringing to the party. With voltage and Ah capacity, you can work it all out.
The 9v is a battery as it has 6 cells in it
The alkaline and heavy-duty, definitely. The primary lithium 9V are probably based on CR123 LiMn chemistry and have only 3 cells. The 9V USB chargeable batteries seem to have two LiPo pouch cells in parallel.
very interesting insight. I've used Eneloops for years, and I didn't know about these lithium frankenstein cells. Your analysis makes sense, because although it's nice that they keep a 'constant' 1.5V, it produces weird results when they are in series, as you clearly showed. My conclusion is: they don't have more energy than nimh AA, low current capability, they only add complexity, with a charging port that can get dirty and fail, they are not a compelling option.
I tried to think about some situations where they make sense to replace a Nimh battery: headlamp, avalanche beacon, wall clock, fridge fan, smoke detectors, speedlite, mouse+keyboard, etc. I think that long term, low current applications, such as such as a computer mouse are best.
* Its charge & discharge current is limited by the MOSFETs in the control circuit, so not suitable for high-drain like with a CanonSpeedlite flash, where Eneloops rule.
* Its performance in very cold temperatures might be good. I have a battery-operated recirc fan for inside an RV fridge, and Nimh cells die quickly in the cold, so I am forced to use alkaline for that. I would love to see your cold-weather tests.
I think that I would need to replace ALL of my NiMH batteries with these lithium ones, otherwise i'd have to keep multiple chargers around, as they don't seem to be a good choice in all situations. I'd prefer to just avoid these lithium AA cells altogether.
subbed and commented for your compliment about my hamster size brain power
PP3 used to be batteries
Laptops use 18650 cells, Tesla cars use 18650 cells - I'd put my money towards them.
@Jannie Kirsten The only consumer cells that really work well in freezing temps are those lithium primary AA cells. Even the CR123 3V cells that used to be popular don't work as well. NiMH and LiIon, yeah, are just not good low-temp choices.
old laptops did. not the newer ones.
@@z352kdaf8324 Yep, new laptops all use LiPo packs because they can be rather flat and can be adjusted to different shapes. I think Tesla went away from 18650, too. They're either using 21700 now or some other, bigger dimensions.
21700 lithium cells are going to be the better batteries. the cells are used in cordless tool battery packs and laptops. 4.2v and up 4000mAh @30 amps continuous discharge in the better models. Samsung 40T ftw (i'm a dirty vaper 😊)
21700s are likely, now the large capacity ones are available affordably in bulk, to be the basis of my power packs. My focus is on avoiding using cells in series.
In this review though I'm testing the new Li-ion AAs, so even the 18650s were a bit of a stretch in terms of making it a fair contest.
@@AlexHibbertOriginals if this really is of concern there's a vape hero called Battery Mooch on youtube and facebook. he tests these products and more for a living and has charts giving the true perfomance breakdown of many popular cell models. that's why i can recommend Samsung 40T's
insulating a lithium battery pack against the cold would be a MUST. current delivery will drop in extreme cold
I have some of the 5Ah Samsungs on backorder, although supply of many non-counterfeit ones has ground to a halt in Europe this year due to Far East production slowdown.
21700s, at wholesale price, are a preference. The temperature for charge and discharge has of course been something central to the design, as I've run powered gear in the extreme cold for a while now.
I'm a flashlight (torch) guy. We normally look for a form factor that supports rechargeable and disposable batteries. Many devices that support 18650 cells also support disposable CR123A cells. This is not a direct replacement, and relies on devices with a wide range of input voltage. In the AA world, 14500 lithium cells are used. These cells are 3.7v not 1.5v - and either take advantage of devices with wide input voltage ranges (my "AA" size flashlight says "1.2v - 4.2v input"), or one battery and an inert spacer to replace two AA batteries.
I've never heard of this 1.5v rechargeable technology before and it seems really promising - but since you covered AAs and 18650s, I wanted to bring up 14500 cells and CR123A cells.
They ALSO make disposable cells that are basically a direct replacement for 18650s. They offer no advantages over their rechargeable counterparts except extremely long shelf life (10+ years). I don't think that matters for your purposes, though.
Also 9v batteries are multiple cells 😁
I think from a reliability standpoint NIMH has less complications for something that is rechargeable. Why not try larger NIMH cells? I have 10'000mah PowerEX D cells that I've been using since 2011. Not much charge cycles since they are so big, I might have charged them 20 times. They are heavier than an 18650 but similar in total energy stored. In your case having a larger battery pack should be more reason cells will stay closer in balance and efficiency goes way up with low current draw relative to battery size. 18650 is a better choice for weight and size.
There's certainly a place for NiMH, and it can be seen wrongly as a legacy battery chemistry. Something I also must consider for my work is energy density. Also, performance below freezing. For these reasons lithium does end up being in the frame still, despite charging limitations in the cold.
With you entirely on reducing current by using a larger pack.
Battery life will always be how it is "just good enough". like miles per gallon in a car, it has not improved when you look at it.
Batteries have improved in energy density and recharge time to an amazing degree. Compare a 2AA flashlight with 700mAh NiCd cells (or even Eneloops at 2000mAh) vs a modern high-quality 18650 flashlight. Or lead-acid eBikes or cars vs LiIon packs. It'd be great if batteries were _better_, but they have definitely improved every decade by a pretty significant amount.
Hi
I get 18650’s out of old laptops and other electronic units. I use them as my primary charge for electronics projects.
Also, 26650 are bad axe
clearly your focused on a batteries performance and will probably always benefit from disposables. I think many people who find this video are just trying to get their dumb home appliances to stop eating 5$ and a trip to the store every 3-6 months. Was really interested in if the EBL's are lying about their stated capacity because that has become the norm now days for cheap electronics. inorder to do that i would have to derive an equation and take the integral over time inorder to figure that out. yeah maybe there are other people who stick them in a watt tester but i came away form this vid having no idea if any of the batteries are their stated capacity. i think the ebl is for 99% of consumers who want to save money and pollute less lol
So in other words i was ripped off by EBL.
Those EBL cells are good for a few very specific applications where you need rechargeability AND the difference between 1.1V and 1.5V actually makes a difference. In most devices, it won't. The ones where it will are usually cheap and not worth $5 cells. 4 AA door locks may be a notable exception. The other bonus of the EBL is if you need a rechargeable AA and don't want to need a charger to top them up (AA mice?), as they just need a regular USB port. There are also similar cells with usb c vs micro, and lower capacity ones with a full size usb A connector.
Why do you feel it necessary to pass judgement on others during your videos?
Largely because it's unnecessary, but still possible.
18650 Li-on is the way for now,.. but they hate the cold. Don't take weight into account, daft comprise
They only dislike cold in charge - they handle discharge well. You'd take weight into account if you had to haul hundreds of them behind you!
"A battery is a power source consisting of one or more electrochemical cells ..." Notice the "one or more."
A battery of one artillery piece would be rather lonely.
1fist
Energizer Ultimate Lithium IS NOT RECHARGEABLE!
The video doesn't claim otherwise.
@@AlexHibbertOriginals What you said confused me
Very unfair comparison.
Hitchens' razor.
EBL lie
EBL is trash. I fell for Amazon reviews.
Vaping saved my life and this guy insults me and millions of people who vape. Guess he would rather us go back to cigarettes.
People like this guy, who think are better than others and only concerned for themselves, make the rest of us sick.
The attitude of a lot of vapers is very macho and does the whole industry / hobby / community a GREAT disservice. That, and the marketing is pretty crass, and selling them to kids is getting them outlawed or regulated for the adults. It has been sad to see. I love to vape 0 nic and don't care to see any regulation.
I used to smoke cigarettes for 10 years. I quit and it almost killed me trying to drop that addiction. Dont smoke or vape anything. Its very bad for long term heath no matter what you do inhaling any smoke.
@@practicalguy973 I agree about any smoke being harmful but vapor is harmless. I don't use nicotine in my vape so it's just like all those smoke machines in all the clubs. I never heard of one complaint about a smoke machine. People today are worried about everything. Just get into a bubble and shut up.
@@practicalguy973 With vaping there is no smoke. The vape fluid is basically the same as in medical inhalators and/or fog machines at clubs and concerts. Nicotine itself isn't that bad either. The bad effects of smoking come from the many thousands of known and unknown byproducts of burning tobacco (tar and formaldehyde and thousands of others)
@@maximilianmustermann5763 Right and vaping has plenty of additives and byproducts in all the different flavors there are. To be clear, you're inhaling more byproducts into your lungs daily that will have consequences compared to someone that does not inhale. Plenty of those additives are new to being in peoples lungs as of the last couple decades and super heated which can change their state. Only time and studies over the next 50 years will prove how bad or good it is. Nicotine itself is incredibly addictive and will mess you up on the mental side. Addictive drug detox is a bad thing and some people don't have the strength to get off of it. Don't smoke or inhale anything. Its not what your lungs were meant for.