I've done this a quite few times now and in the past I have used those concave recrowning files and as much as I tried to like them, I just couldn't. You can't see what you're doing, you tend to hit the edges and they become unlevel or cause roll-off, if you go a little too far, you then end up hitting the top of the fret and believe me it is SO MUCH easier to go too far than you'd think. If you like to use fretwire that's not a generic size such as narrow-tall or wide-flat you might as well throw them out... sometimes I still use them as just a starter if I'm using regular vintage frets, regular mediums, or regular jumbos but I always finish with a triangle file. my results have been perfect so far and I haven't had to re-level any frets since I stopped using those concave files.
14:30 if you run a piece of tape along the binding first, you can pull it off all at once. It also makes it easier to get the fret ends filed close to the fretboard without a chance of damaging it.
Very late response, I know - but he mentioned it in earlier episodes, the masking tape can interfere with the finish of the rear of the neck, which is why he didn't mask the sides :)
Ben, I'm surprised by your comment about fret files. Think you're referring to Gurian fret file. But a straight hollow fretfile is also used at an angle, only easier to use and getting nice round frets.
Looks great! My only question is happened to the binding during the flush sanding and beveling process? Tooling marks or any polishing on the binding needed?
Ben, just for information. The other ingredient in lemon Oil is called D'limonene and is a terpene product that smells like lemons, in a similar way that Ethyl Acetate smells like Pear Drops. D'limonene belongs to a family of products known collectively as Orange Terpenes. That's the science bit over. :)
Smashing job you're doing there Ben 👍 If you're reading this could you say how you're finding the Hock blade and breaker you put in your no 7, now it's been in some time please? Did you end up getting them for your other planes?
Hey Ben have you ever thought about using the blue light tack masking tape on the vintage models like this beautiful SG and will you be offering an SG kit at any stage ?
DeathFromAbove1981 not usually no - Ben has of course cleverly opened his shirt buttons in this case though to give it a little more bottom end push...
Ben these videos are wonderful. Thanks for doing them and sharing your knowledge. I have a question/thought about the crowning where you make a trapezium, round off with sandpaper (finger) and then polish. The issue I have is that the crown is not a proper circle which means that the string is not a proper tangent to it (ie there may be a flat area for the string to rest on). A pure circle has the minimum area of contact with a tangent line (string in this case). So it’s critically important to have a circular fret top (and side). This is where I believe a crowning file will be better as long as the file is the correct size for the fret wire.
general consensus if that you need a small flat area on top of the fret, after crowning. If you had a perfect arc, the contact point would be so small, that the strings would quickly wear away that contact point into a flat (especially if you are bending strings)
Ben! Let me ask you... I don't know if I've understood it well. Is it normal, when placing new frets, to encounter this "falldown" on the last frets close to the pickups? I've never saw a luthier levelling the last frets separately from the others... That's my doubt: The frets were not meant to be totally uniform and equally flatted? I'll be grateful to have this doubt clarified!! Cheers!
I just purchased your essential fret leveling and dressing kit and am waiting until it gets here to Australia and cant wait to do the jobs I have planned, I have got buffing wheels and rouge etc but with the rubbers it seems like that did a fantastic job, but would it be worth buffing anyway Ben ? and if so would you leave the masking tape on to do it or not ?
Can you please tell what fret eraser product are you using in the video and what grits are the "fine" and "super fine" erasers which you refer to in the video? thank you
Depends on how warm it is, after some time it will stop absorbing and after more it will start drying,that would not be ideal. I would suggest leave it on at most for about half an hour or so. By that point the wood should be saturated and good to go. B
+Dave Duvalier absolutely did.. We have a 2 person system of quality control, especially when something has been filmed /done in a rush. Cameras are surprisingly distracting even after filming nearly 1000 videos for RUclips.. Well spotted though! B
have you had any experience with the PLEK machine?? I've played some garbage guitars that have been "pleked" and they feel like high end hand crafted works of art. It's insane!! the machine's start at about 10k I think, but they probably save thousands of hours per year and are precise down to thousandths
PLEKs are _way_ more expensive than that. Factory-reconditioned basic units start around $60k, brand new basic units are well over $120k each. The high cost is why most manufacturers and shops don't have them. They're a _major_ investment, and that's not even taking into account the cost of maintenance (gotta pay someone to come out and repair it), and having to train people to program and use the machine (they're definitely not plug-and-play!) When a PLEK is setup properly it's magic, but if they're not dialed in just right they're no better than anything else. Gibson has had PLEKs for several years but still managed to crank out a ton of _very_ inconsistent guitars because their machines weren't all setup properly. OTOH Suhr has a PLEK and they spent countless hours getting that thing dialed in as perfect as they could _and_ they still check everything after it comes off the machine to make sure it did its job properly. For a while there it really seemed like Gibson just thought _having_ a PLEK was enough and didn't bother to look at anything that came out of the machine before shipping it out.
Woah there trigger, not where I was going with that, I'm a fan, sure he can be a bit brash, but hey, have you grown your company like he has? I just didn't like the subterfuge of a tutorial when it was a infomercial, he needs to exhibit his products I get it, but don't trick your fans, who are the ones buying your product, myself included....
What is your main statement? Liked the video or not? Do you know that making these videos cost him money? I don't mind him doing a bit of infomercial for all the info he gives us, even though as stated as "tutorial". It is a tutorial, if you get distracted by the infomerical part of things, then so be it. ;-)
Chuck Nowakowski you seem to have upset the fanboys! Of course you’re right, it’s a tutorial and company publicity at the same time. That’s good business.
“Essentially it is a Mayan pyramid with a sacrificial platform on top.” Best description of a fret ever!
I'm genuinely salivating here, amazing job Ben.
I've done this a quite few times now and in the past I have used those concave recrowning files and as much as I tried to like them, I just couldn't. You can't see what you're doing, you tend to hit the edges and they become unlevel or cause roll-off, if you go a little too far, you then end up hitting the top of the fret and believe me it is SO MUCH easier to go too far than you'd think. If you like to use fretwire that's not a generic size such as narrow-tall or wide-flat you might as well throw them out... sometimes I still use them as just a starter if I'm using regular vintage frets, regular mediums, or regular jumbos but I always finish with a triangle file. my results have been perfect so far and I haven't had to re-level any frets since I stopped using those concave files.
19:07 "Here we have it"..... a fly!
The most important part of making a guitar? Whatever Ben's doing at the moment.
GREAT series, bring on part 7!
Excellent work ben ....im learning allot...i cant wait till i build a kit guitar..
You can cut the time it takes to apply the marker in half by getting a jumbo wide sharpie (less aiming required).
14:30 if you run a piece of tape along the binding first, you can pull it off all at once. It also makes it easier to get the fret ends filed close to the fretboard without a chance of damaging it.
Very late response, I know - but he mentioned it in earlier episodes, the masking tape can interfere with the finish of the rear of the neck, which is why he didn't mask the sides :)
Can we get some tool closeup in the future, especially for tools you modded. Thx great series.
Yes.. absolutely! B
@@CrimsonCustomGuitars TYVM!
Ben, I'm surprised by your comment about fret files. Think you're referring to Gurian fret file. But a straight hollow fretfile is also used at an angle, only easier to use and getting nice round frets.
You're a very skilled guy.
Looks great! My only question is happened to the binding during the flush sanding and beveling process? Tooling marks or any polishing on the binding needed?
Awsome series so far Ben!!
Will there be a follow up on what the client thinks about the job?
Ben, just for information. The other ingredient in lemon Oil is called D'limonene and is a terpene product that smells like lemons, in a similar way that Ethyl Acetate smells like Pear Drops. D'limonene belongs to a family of products known collectively as Orange Terpenes. That's the science bit over. :)
Smashing job you're doing there Ben 👍
If you're reading this could you say how you're finding the Hock blade and breaker you put in your no 7, now it's been in some time please? Did you end up getting them for your other planes?
A Myan pyramid with a sacrificial top...that's funny. How about a truncated pyramid. I love your videos Ben.
Hey Ben have you ever thought about using the blue light tack masking tape on the vintage models like this beautiful SG and will you be offering an SG kit at any stage ?
Blue marker pen makes for a warmer tone right?
DeathFromAbove1981 not usually no - Ben has of course cleverly opened his shirt buttons in this case though to give it a little more bottom end push...
purple
I tend to use boiled linseed oil to both clean and treat fretboards
Ben these videos are wonderful. Thanks for doing them and sharing your knowledge. I have a question/thought about the crowning where you make a trapezium, round off with sandpaper (finger) and then polish. The issue I have is that the crown is not a proper circle which means that the string is not a proper tangent to it (ie there may be a flat area for the string to rest on). A pure circle has the minimum area of contact with a tangent line (string in this case). So it’s critically important to have a circular fret top (and side). This is where I believe a crowning file will be better as long as the file is the correct size for the fret wire.
general consensus if that you need a small flat area on top of the fret, after crowning. If you had a perfect arc, the contact point would be so small, that the strings would quickly wear away that contact point into a flat (especially if you are bending strings)
Ben! Let me ask you... I don't know if I've understood it well. Is it normal, when placing new frets, to encounter this "falldown" on the last frets close to the pickups?
I've never saw a luthier levelling the last frets separately from the others... That's my doubt: The frets were not meant to be totally uniform and equally flatted?
I'll be grateful to have this doubt clarified!!
Cheers!
I just purchased your essential fret leveling and dressing kit and am waiting until it gets here to Australia and cant wait to do the jobs I have planned, I have got buffing wheels and rouge etc but with the rubbers it seems like that did a fantastic job, but would it be worth buffing anyway Ben ? and if so would you leave the masking tape on to do it or not ?
Im loving this series...
I have the same issue with a beautiful les paul of mine.
I wish you could do mine aswell... ;)
moooooom, Ben is sacrificing people on my guitar.
Does creating a fall-away sharpen the intonation in those frets that are fallen away at an angle?
It may already be too late but if possible could we see the delivery to Kelly?
How do you get the fret ends to look like that?
So is there really any real importance in the getting a certain shape of fret wire when you essentially destroy it's original form anyway?
Yes. Height and thickness of the fretwire determine in the first place how well the frets feel for you.
after an entire fret job, would it not make sense to make a whole new nut instead of shimming it?
wow. is it actually Kelly Jones' guitar?
I’d like to have seen Kelly reaction to the re-fret.
me too, sadly this was done via his tech and not direct.
Can you please tell what fret eraser product are you using in the video and what grits are the "fine" and "super fine" erasers which you refer to in the video? thank you
www.crimsonguitars.com/store/fret-rubber-fret-polishing-abrasive/
What fret do,you use as the transition point, for fall away, ie, after,which,fret. ?
Kelly Jones will be happy! hahaha
wtf happened to the 4th/5th frets? did hammer run out of ammo?
Can you let the fret board solution sit overnight ? So the wood can suck more in?
Depends on how warm it is, after some time it will stop absorbing and after more it will start drying,that would not be ideal. I would suggest leave it on at most for about half an hour or so. By that point the wood should be saturated and good to go. B
Ben.......what happend to using Autosol mate???????????????????
I would be worried I get that call from Kelly Jones saying "hey man I was playing live at Wembley and a fret fell off, wtf dude?" lol
Oh dear! File marks still in the frets¬ 2nd in from the body.....hope you sorted that out! at 19:38
+Dave Duvalier absolutely did.. We have a 2 person system of quality control, especially when something has been filmed /done in a rush. Cameras are surprisingly distracting even after filming nearly 1000 videos for RUclips.. Well spotted though! B
have you had any experience with the PLEK machine?? I've played some garbage guitars that have been "pleked" and they feel like high end hand crafted works of art. It's insane!! the machine's start at about 10k I think, but they probably save thousands of hours per year and are precise down to thousandths
LevitatorMusic
LevitatorMusic
yes? lol
PLEKs are _way_ more expensive than that. Factory-reconditioned basic units start around $60k, brand new basic units are well over $120k each. The high cost is why most manufacturers and shops don't have them. They're a _major_ investment, and that's not even taking into account the cost of maintenance (gotta pay someone to come out and repair it), and having to train people to program and use the machine (they're definitely not plug-and-play!)
When a PLEK is setup properly it's magic, but if they're not dialed in just right they're no better than anything else. Gibson has had PLEKs for several years but still managed to crank out a ton of _very_ inconsistent guitars because their machines weren't all setup properly. OTOH Suhr has a PLEK and they spent countless hours getting that thing dialed in as perfect as they could _and_ they still check everything after it comes off the machine to make sure it did its job properly. For a while there it really seemed like Gibson just thought _having_ a PLEK was enough and didn't bother to look at anything that came out of the machine before shipping it out.
true temperment
why would you not make a new nut?
Are these Dunlop 6000 frets or something else of equal size? They look beautifully huge!
Moshe Alvarez they cant be 6000 as when he measured the original frets they were 2.4 mm wide 6000 are around 2.8 mm wide
Would have expected Kelly to have chosen a luthier who can actually re-bind the fret ends
You are not a fan of linseed oil then?
This is like watching Bob Ross doing a painting.
Come on mate, get those frets seated properly.
As much as I love Ben's videos, I was thinking the same. Number 4 in particular is way up from the board. Hmmm
And I actually need to learn how to seat frets properly haha
I'm going to say it, yes this has been a good tutorial, but also has been a multi part infomercial.......
Welcome to the real world.
Not when it's under the pretext of a tutorial, no prob hawking his wares ......let's just not pretend.....
Woah there trigger, not where I was going with that, I'm a fan, sure he can be a bit brash, but hey, have you grown your company like he has? I just didn't like the subterfuge of a tutorial when it was a infomercial, he needs to exhibit his products I get it, but don't trick your fans, who are the ones buying your product, myself included....
What is your main statement? Liked the video or not? Do you know that making these videos cost him money? I don't mind him doing a bit of infomercial for all the info he gives us, even though as stated as "tutorial". It is a tutorial, if you get distracted by the infomerical part of things, then so be it. ;-)
Chuck Nowakowski you seem to have upset the fanboys! Of course you’re right, it’s a tutorial and company publicity at the same time. That’s good business.
"you have several options, and most them are wrong"
DamageIncM HAHA
and a gibson becomes an epiphone