I use a 24” leveling beam. On one side I cover the entire surface with sand paper, on the other side I cover only 8” of the beam with sand paper. I then mark the 14th fret with a permanent marker. I apply 6 to 8 layers of tape to the 5th fret and let the uncovered 16” of the leveling beam rest on that mound of tape. Sand the frets until the the permanent marker has been removed from the 14th fret. At that point I remove the 6 to 8 layers of tape, turn the leveling beam over and sand the remaining frets until they are level. Then crown and polish😎
I used a file on my very first fret job, well over fifteen years ago, and realized it was overkill for what is needed. Been using a level beam with sandpaper ever since. I go about getting fall away in the fashion you used. I have also transitioned into using a rocker during a level within the last year. One place we differ is I prefer to emulate string tension on a neck with a neck jig type fixture. You guys produce very well made videos thanks for all the hard work.
d2vmusic - from about the body join which is typically around the 16th fret on electrics and the 14 on acoustics. There are exceptions of course the SG Ben is working on probably joins at the 19th or so. In that case the fall away would still start around the 16th fret. It's not a hard and fast rule for me more of an as needed kinda feel thing, as are many things in guitar building and repair. Ben may have his own "specs" on this subject and as he said in this video, loosely quoted, we tend to try new or different ways of doing things as our skills improve. Me speaking again, So methods and practices evolve.
Great series. Something I really like about this one, and please don't take this as (too) negative a comment on your other videos, is that you get a Crimson logo and then start without a preamble about what has happened or what will happen in this video. I appreciate that in your regular videos you have to assume the viewer is watching for the first time, but sometimes I don't believe the full intro explaining the context or content of video is necessary all the time. I hope you don't take my comment negatively as I love and watch your videos with great interest and admiration. Can't wait to the concluding parts of this short series, keep up the good work
Fantastic stuff, I love a perfectionist, the detail is the difference 😁😁❤️ I think frets are flattened, until they are uniformly flat. If you want a 'level' fret board you will require a spirit level. This will tell you the fret boards relationship to the underlying plane of earth 😉
Tha scalpel always make me nervous cutting the tape like that :) I just split the tape down the middle first and use the flat side of the tape on each fret. But each to their own :)
I watched this series out of interest to see if your method was significantly different to mine. My overarching sentiment is that's similar but I can't help but wonder why you seem to be making so many stuff ups as you go!? Your process was all over the shop.
I know what I want for Christmas. A beam to go with the file. That file btw is great for taking lots off a nut blank. Will have to talk to Santa about funds first.
I noticed with the 12" beam that frets around #7 to #12 get close to 10" of stroke where as #1 to #4 get maybe 4" of stroke. Have you developed a follow through since, is one needed? (maybe not because this was a success.)
It appears from the video that your transition fret is the 13th fret but you are sanding from the 10th? That is where the leveling beam is taped off at ? Correct?
Is it possible to level individual frets, or groups of adjacent frets instead of risking to remove excessive material when levelling all frets, please?
technically, in some situations yes, but, tbh when a fret level is required it is almost always better to at least skim the top of all the frets. anything less is going to give you poor results.
HI Ben i might be doing my first re fret soon, could i mask off the fret board before i dress the ends or is there a reason why you do not ? Thanks Greg
Because he's taking it slow and in multiple shallow passes it will follow the radius the top of the frets are at. In this case a compound radius. If he were to hit it repetedly in only the middle then he'd wear them down to flat. So lots of shallow passes evenly over the width is the key.
What? So you'd put up with a higher action, just...why? You can't even call it laziness cus avoiding the first fret is even more effort than doing it properly.
The nut should be the highest point. Every fret after should be an even height, aside from the frets with fall away. Unless you have a zero fret, which will sit only slightly higher than the rest. A higher first fret will, as stated above me, only require you to run higher action.
I've seen other people do it elsewhere. But it isn't possible in this particular case as it's a compound radius. The problem with a radius block is that you end up with that radius regardless of what the board underneath is set at.
My band did a couple of gigs with them back before their first album was out, and he was playing it then and I'm prettty sure it was a new guitar then and not an older one. Pretty sure he wouldn't have had the money to buy a vintage one in those days
You can hear the high fret as you pass it. To me this is the most tedious part of a refret. If there is an individual high fret I deal with those 1 or two frets with a 5 inch sanding block then go back to the 12" block when it's very close. If it's a few low frets it's a bitch. All of them have to come down. It's also the part that makes the difference between nice high frets and low frets in the end. To get that perfect level, metal has to come off. It can take hours and hours for a perfect level.
I can see at around the 11 minute mark, & onward, that the neck does appear to move. You can see it with the head stock spring up and down. I vaguely remember something about you wanting to develop a neck rest to support more of the neck surface. Anything happening there?
16 Inch would be better but its only kelly jones's so we will make do with this one. Well you cant say Ben kiss's any ass can you.Its getting done in bens experimental way it seems. though personally i feel he should be doin his tests and experiments on some other guitar and be using only the very best tools on Kellys Number 1. lol but what do i know. im just watching a youtube Video.Seems no point in buying any of the tools Crimson sell. Ben dont use them . sandpaper and a level beam, and a credit card will do :O
True story, however most tools you can easily build by yourself - a aluminium bar as levelling beam will do perfectly, as they are cut out with surgical precision nowadays. However, one thing to consider: Ben is teaching all of this stuff for free. I think buying his tools is the way we can pay back. And the fret crowning file or fret end dressing file differs to the competion in size and handiness, plus it's not as expensive as stew-kack tools - their fret-end bevelling file out of plastik is a joke for 70 bucks, while this one at least is made with nice woods. Still a joke since you can do one for yourself quite easily if you have the proper tools, but I think of giving back something to crimson guitars for showing me all this fancyness. ;)
I use a 24” leveling beam. On one side I cover the entire surface with sand paper, on the other side I cover only 8” of the beam with sand paper. I then mark the 14th fret with a permanent marker. I apply 6 to 8 layers of tape to the 5th fret and let the uncovered 16” of the leveling beam rest on that mound of tape. Sand the frets until the the permanent marker has been removed from the 14th fret. At that point I remove the 6 to 8 layers of tape, turn the leveling beam over and sand the remaining frets until they are level. Then crown and polish😎
A true master learn from his students.
I used a file on my very first fret job, well over fifteen years ago, and realized it was overkill for what is needed. Been using a level beam with sandpaper ever since. I go about getting fall away in the fashion you used. I have also transitioned into using a rocker during a level within the last year. One place we differ is I prefer to emulate string tension on a neck with a neck jig type fixture.
You guys produce very well made videos thanks for all the hard work.
Are there particular fret numbers from which you would generally look to create fall away, say for 24.75" and 25.5" scale lengths? Thanks.
d2vmusic - from about the body join which is typically around the 16th fret on electrics and the 14 on acoustics. There are exceptions of course the SG Ben is working on probably joins at the 19th or so. In that case the fall away would still start around the 16th fret. It's not a hard and fast rule for me more of an as needed kinda feel thing, as are many things in guitar building and repair. Ben may have his own "specs" on this subject and as he said in this video, loosely quoted, we tend to try new or different ways of doing things as our skills improve. Me speaking again, So methods and practices evolve.
When a guitar channel tells you to “stay tuned”....XD
Suspicious edit at 14:50
Great series. Something I really like about this one, and please don't take this as (too) negative a comment on your other videos, is that you get a Crimson logo and then start without a preamble about what has happened or what will happen in this video. I appreciate that in your regular videos you have to assume the viewer is watching for the first time, but sometimes I don't believe the full intro explaining the context or content of video is necessary all the time. I hope you don't take my comment negatively as I love and watch your videos with great interest and admiration.
Can't wait to the concluding parts of this short series, keep up the good work
Fantastic stuff, I love a perfectionist, the detail is the difference 😁😁❤️ I think frets are flattened, until they are uniformly flat. If you want a 'level' fret board you will require a spirit level. This will tell you the fret boards relationship to the underlying plane of earth 😉
Love your patience on a great vid .. Brilliant ! You love your job
Tha scalpel always make me nervous cutting the tape like that :) I just split the tape down the middle first and use the flat side of the tape on each fret. But each to their own :)
I watched this series out of interest to see if your method was significantly different to mine. My overarching sentiment is that's similar but I can't help but wonder why you seem to be making so many stuff ups as you go!? Your process was all over the shop.
Love your videos. But has anyone told you you sound like a super villain? Lol
His voice drives me nuts .
I usually let the neck settle without a rest under it when I adjust the truss rod if I'm fret levelling. Is that good or bad?
Hands as skilled as a surgeon
I know what I want for Christmas. A beam to go with the file. That file btw is great for taking lots off a nut blank.
Will have to talk to Santa about funds first.
I noticed with the 12" beam that frets around #7 to #12 get close to 10" of stroke where as #1 to #4 get maybe 4" of stroke. Have you developed a follow through since, is one needed? (maybe not because this was a success.)
Is it desirable to set the "fall away" into the fretboard, and not just the frets, when building a guitar?
It appears from the video that your transition fret is the 13th fret but you are sanding from the 10th? That is where the leveling beam is taped off at ? Correct?
Would you suggest rounding the frets afterwards?
Is it possible to level individual frets, or groups of adjacent frets instead of risking to remove excessive material when levelling all frets, please?
technically, in some situations yes, but, tbh when a fret level is required it is almost always better to at least skim the top of all the frets. anything less is going to give you poor results.
JB's gonna be pissed off that you've used all his masking tape.
HI Ben i might be doing my first re fret soon, could i mask off the fret board before i dress the ends or is there a reason why you do not ?
Thanks
Greg
Greg Fowler the file sits flush to the fretboard so the masking tape would interfere
When you level the frets, you keep them flat or will they follow the fretboard radius?
Because he's taking it slow and in multiple shallow passes it will follow the radius the top of the frets are at. In this case a compound radius. If he were to hit it repetedly in only the middle then he'd wear them down to flat. So lots of shallow passes evenly over the width is the key.
Thanks!
Why not use your fret rocker while your hammering in the frets?
why would you level the first fret when doing this? its always going to need to be the highest point so doesn't need to be levelled.
What? So you'd put up with a higher action, just...why? You can't even call it laziness cus avoiding the first fret is even more effort than doing it properly.
The nut should be the highest point. Every fret after should be an even height, aside from the frets with fall away. Unless you have a zero fret, which will sit only slightly higher than the rest. A higher first fret will, as stated above me, only require you to run higher action.
Hey Ben, is it possible to use a Radius beam to level the fretboard?
I've seen other people do it elsewhere. But it isn't possible in this particular case as it's a compound radius.
The problem with a radius block is that you end up with that radius regardless of what the board underneath is set at.
Thanks Allan!
How old is the guitar?
If that is his original one, pretty sure it is a 95 or 96 one
My band did a couple of gigs with them back before their first album was out, and he was playing it then and I'm prettty sure it was a new guitar then and not an older one. Pretty sure he wouldn't have had the money to buy a vintage one in those days
You can hear the high fret as you pass it. To me this is the most tedious part of a refret. If there is an individual high fret I deal with those 1 or two frets with a 5 inch sanding block then go back to the 12" block when it's very close. If it's a few low frets it's a bitch. All of them have to come down. It's also the part that makes the difference between nice high frets and low frets in the end. To get that perfect level, metal has to come off. It can take hours and hours for a perfect level.
I prefer an angle grinder for leveling :P ---- Love you videos --- :) AU.
I can see at around the 11 minute mark, & onward, that the neck does appear to move. You can see it with the head stock spring up and down. I vaguely remember something about you wanting to develop a neck rest to support more of the neck surface. Anything happening there?
I vaguely remember that, about two years ago it was mentioned I think
Do luthiers put that much care for every single refretting job? I'd find it hard to believe..
If they're worth the pay then they should.
If you don't have a permanent marker, can you use a sharpie?... whatever the hell a sharpie is!
Sharpies are a permanent marker.
Dude come on.
"Significant rock"? As opposed to what? Nickleback? Couldn't resist. Sorry Chad! Don't cry!
16 Inch would be better but its only kelly jones's so we will make do with this one. Well you cant say Ben kiss's any ass can you.Its getting done in bens experimental way it seems. though personally i feel he should be doin his tests and experiments on some other guitar and be using only the very best tools on Kellys Number 1. lol but what do i know. im just watching a youtube Video.Seems no point in buying any of the tools Crimson sell. Ben dont use them . sandpaper and a level beam, and a credit card will do :O
True story, however most tools you can easily build by yourself - a aluminium bar as levelling beam will do perfectly, as they are cut out with surgical precision nowadays.
However, one thing to consider: Ben is teaching all of this stuff for free. I think buying his tools is the way we can pay back.
And the fret crowning file or fret end dressing file differs to the competion in size and handiness, plus it's not as expensive as stew-kack tools - their fret-end bevelling file out of plastik is a joke for 70 bucks, while this one at least is made with nice woods. Still a joke since you can do one for yourself quite easily if you have the proper tools, but I think of giving back something to crimson guitars for showing me all this fancyness.
;)