I really want to thank Maya for participating in these videos with you. She is a very valuable asset to our understanding of figure skating as a global sport.
She is always a reminder that not everyone in Russian sport approves of the systemic issues surrounding cheating and she also points out how limited the freedoms of the athletes are to be autonomous.
Thank you Dave for organizing this for us so quickly, I actually was able to listen at work. As always, Phil and Maya were spectacular. I would imagine this is a tough situation for Maya, but I absolutely respect her professionalism and honesty given the facts that are known as of today. Heartbreaking that a 15-year-old is going to become the face of doping when we all know this was in all likelihood out of her hands. I want her entourage to go down.
Eteri and her team should face some kind of consequences or punishment for likely providing the banned substance to Kamila. A 15 year old doesn't have the knowledge or wherewithal to take that on their own. In my opinion , every event that Team Tutberidze is now allowed to coach is tainted because of their/Eteri's presence. I feel sad for Kamila in a way since because of Eteri, she will likely never be an Olympic or World champ. The adults in the room definitely failed her.
I couldn't agree more. I would bet $1,000 that her coaches went to her to give her a quote unquote nutritional supplement laced and unbeknownst to Kamila. This is consistent with what Medvedeva said about Kamila's reaction when the news broke and how she was absolutely beside herself with confusion and devastation. Medvedeva said that a guilty athlete does not behave that way. Knowing how severe coaches are in Russia and how they fully control their athletes, I believe 1,000% that they drugged her. I am crying for this girl because she's the most talented figure skater in the history of the sport and so many around the world will miss her performances
I agree. You have to wonder if any of the other skaters under Eteri were given substances when they were Kamila’s age or younger that gave them an advantage coming up through the ranks while they were trying to make a name for themselves?
@@primalcrittersthis reminds me of what happened in East Germany back in the day to their gymnasts. I don’t remember her name, but one of their female gymnasts came out many years later and said that she was given some pills and was told they were nutritional supplements. They turned out to be something else that messed up her ability to have children.
@@QuirkyGirl10there is a whole documentary on here about East Germany’s extensive doping program. One East German athlete actually decided to just transition to being a transgender man because he (at the time she) was given testosterone and developed so many male characteristics that were irreversible; this wasn’t figure skating, but it was the same system.
The content I have been dying for since 9:15 a.m. Thank you Dave, Phil, and Maya. This feels like one of those situations where we will never know the complete truth and no one really wins. Thank you all for providing your perspectives.
The discourse between you and Maya is great. All sides of the story are highlighted and debated, which is so much more helpful than a one-sided diatribe. Ultimately it is very sad, a very talented girl has lost her career and her coaches have not been reprimanded at all. A fifteen year old doesn't dope alone. It is beyond me how her entourage is still allowed at international competitions. Thanks Dave.
Well that's why they said it was Grandpa's medication and she did it all on her own and now she's probably going to be fed the narrative as are the Russian people that it's everybody else who's after them and wants to exclude them and hates them but the reality is it is her Russian team and her Russian Federation who did this to her. I wonder if she has any realization of how she has been used and abused and will have to toe the line to be able to do stupid shows.
An extremely sad day for Kamila I just hope she is OK and a sad day for the sport losing a phenomenon like Kamila, will it be for good!! I don't know, she is clearly a motivated young woman and her motivation was lost after the Olympics that was clear to see along with her growth. Only Kamila knows if she wants to train in isolation and knock off days 1 by 1 for the next 22months, you have to be mentally so strong to do that, I believe Kamila is as that's what made her tough to compete against aswel as her god given talent to ice-dance, I would like her to as it would be a big story come 2026, time will tell. My opinion on what happened is any little amount of drug doesn't help you skate with the artistry and musicality, her movements, understanding of the music like Kamila does, I hear some haters say it helps her train more to perfect what I've just said, all Russians take drugs yet none have ever skated like Kamila or is the greatest skater I've ever seen who from 13 was winning everything including worlds and setting WRs and doing exactly the same as a senior, annihilating everyone including Russians the only one taking a drug, the greatest figure skater needed help to beat skaters she was already beating by 30/40pts at the Russian Nationals. Something doesn't add up.. Whilst most of the comments on here were kind towards Kamila I'm sure there will be some that disagree with what I've said, that's fine as it's just my honest opinion. A good podcast that was fair.
You made some very good points. One of the saddest parts of this story is that because of this doping, Valieva will never be judged fairly for all her talent and skill.
She IS a beautiful skater, a one of a kind. She was exploited and failed by the adults around her. She didn't need drugs to be special, and it's a shame that her own team believed she needed the extra help. It's a true shame that we'll never see her full potential. She had the potential to become one of the all time greats in the sport.
The CAS decision prohibits Camila from participating in competitions domestically and abroad, prohibiting her from training at the skating rink or participating in shows where there is at least partial government funding. And in Russia, almost all skating rinks and shows have government funding. In fact, Camila will no longer be able to train and perform anywhere, in any shows. He can't do it anywhere. Figure skating was the meaning of life for Kamila. Now this world has collapsed. I hope those who contributed to this are happy.
My theory: they gave her a 4 year ban because there was some behind the scenes maneuvering to entice Russians back this coming year/season; therefore if she only served a 2 year backdated ban it would mean "nothing" since they couldn't compete internationally anyway.
Unfortunately, in addition to Valieva, there are still many good figure skaters in Russia, many will grow up just in time for the Olympics...Will these guys spoil their doping tests too? Or will the usual generally accepted humiliating slander towards Russian athletes be enough? It's interesting, we'll be watching.
Thanks to all of you but especially Maya for coming and providing us with valuable insight into the view from Russia. I really respect her professionalism.
Let's be honest, Eteri and her camp went to Kamila and gave her some quote unquote nutritional supplement to fortify her, and drugged her unknowingly. I would bet $1,000 that that's what happened. Medvedeva is very outspoken and we all love her for it and she was resolute that the day test came out she was with Kamila and that she was absolutely beside herself in confusion not understanding what was going on. This is not how a guilty athlete behaves. A young girl thrown under the bus and her coaches get the pass. I'm horrified
А если вы хорошо подумайте, то поймёте, что тренер выводил на лёд трёх лучших фигуристок в мире, что Щербакова, что Трусова были лучше остальных в мире, конкурентов не было . Есть ли смысл в том, что вы сказали?!
@@oxanakoroleva6712nothing you said negates the fact that Kamila was caught doping. The sad thing is that Kamila, as well as the other Eteri girls, don’t need dope. Kamila would have won gold without doping. There was no need to give the girls substances. They are good enough without taking performance enhancing drugs.
Great video but I feel Kamila is really the scapegoat in all of this. Her coaches & team dr should be the ones banned. She was only 15,raised in a cocoon like atmosphere so please don't insult our intelligence and say she knowingly took the drug herself,the poor kid probably couldn't even pronounce the drug let alone know how to use it
no this is why there has to be an all Russia ban at least in figure skating. She bears some responsibility but not all. It goes to her coaches and all the way up to the top of Russia's sport organization whatever that is called. And for those other than the athletes it should be ten years. Basically ban them from the sport. Period.
Dave, I know it's uncommon in the USA to have even one passport. But people of other countries (especially Europe) often have 2 passports from the time of birth or from a young age and may even acquire another as they move through life. It's possible that Diana Davis has Russian, Georgian and American passports. It's possible that some of the Russian coaches that were traveling to international competitions were not traveling as Russians but as the nationality of another passport. Each nationality is equally valid. By saying things like "She's about as Georgian as I am Canadian," you're implying she's doing something wrong. I'm sure she has a Georgian passport while you most likely don't have a Canadian passport. Statements like that don't serve the high level of credibility that you normally demonstrate otherwise.
@@joanfoley6148Diana Davis does have a US passport. She was born in Las Vegas. Although I understand the argument against her competing for Georgia; her connection to that country is very limited
This is such a well written comment, providing both information and a polite critique with respect. North Americans seem to have a very pure perspective on dual citizenship. Fans of figure skating and gymnastics often seem to not follow other sports. I find this to be quite unusual within sports fandom. Because of this, figure skating and gymnastics fans seem to be unaware of how many athletes in Olympic sports have dual citizenship and are not competing for the country of their birth. I myself did not realize the sheer amount until the Olympics started streaming heats and qualifying rounds and we get to see 90% more athletes than the ones who make the finals which are shown on TV. Many of these dual citizenship athletes have no family connection to the country they are competing for. Imho athletes who have trained all their lives to compete at the highest levels may go right ahead and compete for any country that wants to give them citizenship. Why not? As long as the rules of the athlete’s sport and of the IOC allow it, they are almost encouraging athletes to use this option. I’m glad you wrote what you did, but I’m sorry that the RUclipsr has not acknowledged your comment.
I, of course, love it when Phil is on (please come back!), but I absolutely love Maya's perspective on these events. It is so valuable to know what is happening with Russian figure skating, and I love how Maya fact checks in real time. And, the discourse between you (Dave) and Maya is wonderful. Thank you, Dave, for your learned opinions on these subjects, and keep up the good work! As for Valiaeva, I do believe that she is being thrown under the bus for this doping case -- while I believe that she should have been disqualified from the 2022 Olympics, I believe that 4 years is too long for a punishment. Instead, her coaches and doctor staff should be banned for those years, and perhaps even more for doping a child -- disgraceful behavior by adults who are interested in bolstering their own careers by putting a child at both physical and psychological risk. Shame on them.
The way the dumb system is set up is absurd. She is protected enough to compete despite a positive drug result yet she isn't protected enough that her team and federation take responsibility. It's completely illogical. Eteri and Shvetsky? walk with impunity. I do think the 4 years is right. She hasn't really been banned from anything that every other clean Russian has been banned for and I know it's not her but they have been continually telling lies and selling that grandpa (glass or dessert) story instead of taking any responsibility. It's unacceptable bs. She is a kid but the lies are insulting.
Would love to see you commentate at an event with Ashley Wagner and Adam Rippon. You have a great mix of historical knowledge, behind the scenes knowledge, fan and skater. I enjoy listening to your shows.
To be honest, as sad as it sounds, whether she is banned or not, Kamila has reached her 'expiry' date. So her being banned makes no difference, as there is almost no chance she would be competitive by the time Russia is allowed back in the world stage anyway.
Exactly. There was no reason for CAS to not have this decision: 1. Kamila won't be competing anyways, so no "harm" toward her right? 2. Russia has been banned indefinitely and we don't even know if they'd be allowed back in the olympics anytime soon so who cares, and 3. CAS's reputation had been in stake ever since Beijing when they ruled that Kamila can compete because she's a minor. They had so much backlash that they had to essentially win back the crowd. People don't understand that this was never about what was fair. This had always been about politics.
Well... somehow I got the feeling that it was the ridiculous "grandpa`s waterglass/ grandpa`s cake" - story that really made the people at CAS furious - I mean, doping is a bad thing, no question, but telling blatant lies to both the ISU and the IOC is even worse. Kamila and her team didn`t even shy away from indirectly putting the blame on a member of her family, some thousands of miles away.This is really disgusting.- and very silly. Sorry for my bad english, I hope it`s not too messy 🙂
I don't feel any sense of relief from this. I don't see how this decision moves sport in the right direction, it's more about moving back to what it used to be before this doping scandal. Just like after the whole piss scandal. Punishing just Valieva achieves nothing because she's just a screw in the whole machine and is victim at the end of the day.
7:43 I could absolutely see any kid not being fully informed at all of the supplements they were given....which is why it's a misjustice when her responsible adults are not being punished appropriately
That’s what happened in the former East Germany. Athletes were given substances and were told they were nutritional supplements. One former gymnast couldn’t have children as a result of taking such substances.
I think it’s fine if the US are awarded their medal anywhere frankly. I personally don’t need to see that gold medal award ceremony in the next Olympics. We don’t need further investigations. The athlete & Russian federation has been punished move on. Personally, I don’t like David Lease’s speculations. I would prefer the next Olympics to please have no politics attached to it. Thanks.
A lie-detector is really not very sensitive or specific! They are not backed sufficiently by science (and therefore not used at all in most European countries) so it really doesn't mean much to me that that Dr. "passed" it. You can even take drugs to help you pass, like mild tranquillisers and blood pressure medication. One could speculate he came well prepared...
So they are not going to do anything to Eteri Tutberidze? We all know she is the mastermind behind it. Haven’t finished watching this video yet but it sure sounds like Team Tut isn’t getting any repercussions. ETA: Kamila is taking all the heat while Eteri is free to abuse more girls and produce more disposable “champions.” This will happen again until Eteri gets punished
First time commenting but your discussion on "why female skaters?" was so interesting to hear over here in Japan because figure skating was all about the ladies for quite a while. My generation remembers Miki Ando, Shizuka Arakawa, and of course, Mao Asada pretty well. But 2014 was literally the turning point when the ladies stopped reaching the podium (albeit Mao's having a heartwarming free program)and a certain Yuzuru Hanyu won Gold for the first time. It was a 180 degree turn in our culture, symbolized by the release of an anime focusing on cute possibly homosexual boys competing at the Grand Prix series. - I always thought that reaching the podium is the biggest quality when it comes to Japan and this sport, but even with Eteri's girls out of the picture, I'm not entirely sure about that being the case because Kaori doesn't have the cameras on her the way Miki or Mao once did. The girls are doing pretty well but the hysteria around the girls seems to be gone and it's pretty unfortunate. Edit: I'm gonna keep it real. I forgot to note that in the specific case of Mao, her "rivalry" with Yuna (I'm putting quotation marks only because I feel like this was created in a lab by the media rather than it being a genuine personal one) has definitely contributed to the hype.
Two athletes one American swimmer who was an adult that had Trimetazidine in their systems both got minor ramifications. The bobsledder got a verbal warning, and the American swimmer got a 6-month ban. Then the Jamaican swimmer that tested positive for two illegal substances on two different tests got only a verbal reprimand because she was a juvenile. Not only did they treat Kamila as an adult, but adults with a similar tests were treated with minimal judgments in comparison to Kamila. Justice is supposed to be blind, yet they are picking and choosing who to turn up the fire on!
You fail to mention key important facts, like the one swimmer swam for the YMCA, oppose to let’s say ohhhhhhh an Olympic professional athlete. Facts matter in the real world, you should try applying the facts along with reason and logic.
Because it was a political show trial. The president represented the UK and Australia and worked in the US and one arbitrator was from the USA vs one from France. There shouldn't be any arbitrators from the US or from countries that are allies with the US in a case that involves a Russian skater. Therefore this decision can't be taken seriously in any way. Only some nationalistic and biased Americans are happy today that "bad Russia" got banned and that Team USA will get the gold medal.
Maybe the reason she got the book thrown at her was because Russia kept delaying the proceedings for 2 years. If the whole thing had happened with a verdict within 6 months of the last Olympics, she was much younger then and hadn't had her growth spurt, a slap on the wrist would have been all CAS would give her because she looked so young. The longer it was dragged out, the less favourable the findings.
I think they also “threw the book at her” because they felt that the “grandpa’s water” story was an insult to their intelligence. Idk who told Kamila to say that (probably Eteri) but there are so many more plausible excuses Kamila could have given…
To me, the most startling language in the CAS statement reflects that Valieva INTENTIONALLY and KNOWINGLY doped, and thus the 4 year ban. They make clear it was no accident. That's very damning. I don't hear this angle discussed much here. CAS also mooted the age factor.
It's insane because it's highly likely her coaches drugged her unbeknownst to Kamila, get her coaches get no reprimand and she is thrown under the bus. Medvedeva who is very outspoken said she was with Kamila when the news broke and that she was absolutely confused and beside herself. She said she did not behave like a guilty athlete trying to lay blame on others, she was confused and didn't understand how that medication got into her system. Shame on CAS
She couldn’t provide a believable explanation as to how the medicine accidentally got to her system (and she didn’t blame anybody for giving her the medicine). If an athlete claims accidental ingestion, they are expected to prove it. I am surprised that Russia didn’t just throw the team doctor under the bus instead of Kamila though. They could have said that the doctor gave her the medicine and Kamila didn’t know it was a banned medicine. But the doctor publicly denied such accusations and said he had nothing to do with this case
@@sirena3470in Russia, they have a “take one for the team” mentality, protecting the goals of the group over the individual. It is clear that they made Kamila take all of the blame to “protect” Eteri, the doctor, and Russian FS as a whole. I am convinced that they told Kamila what to say and that they told her to throw away the individual free skate so that her teammates could bring home medals
@@d.n.8919This. From the moment of Kamila’s first bobble in her Olympic free skate, I was 100% certain that it was intentional. When I learned her kiss & cry comment - “at least now the medal won’t be contested” (meaning, she did poorly enough that she was no longer a contender for a medal) - I was even more convinced. It’s unlikely we’ll never know, though.
No that's not correct. The verdict says: She cannot prove definitively that she did NOT intentionally take the drug. Ergo: She's guilty before proving innocent. You can't prove a negative. That's stupid.
Beckie Scott finished third at the 5 km cross country race at the Salt lake Olympic Games but was upgraded to gold after the two Russians who finished ahead of her were disqualified for doping . She didn't receive her gold medal until over 2 afterwards at the Vancouver Art Gallery. Do not hold your breath on a fancy ceremony for the figure skating medals.
When the Tokyo "2020" British 4×100m relay team was disqualified for one member testing positive for a banned substance the Canadian team was upgraded to Silver - they got their medals at a Canadian T& F Championship 2 years later. Not sure when/where the Chinese team who then got Bronze got theirs? These kind of things don't usually get a big flashy presentation.
I am on Maya's side here. And a 15 yr old did not get the drugs herself. The ISU and the system at large is to blame, because they do not prioritize protecting the athletes, safe sport and doping free. This is horrible child abuse either way. We know Eteri's method. And the abuse in fs goes beyond Russia, in Korea the sheer number of pressure and ranking competition put on the athletes. Japan has Mie Hamada. Eteri still roams free like a happy scarecrow and gets a TV show. Isabeau Levito breaks on the ice at US nationals and misses multiple spins. And everybody with power in the sport congratulates this coaches.
If her age is the justification for looking the other way, then she does not belong in an adult competition. It is patently unfair to her competitors to give her a pass on something they would be crucified for.
Tell me which Russian parents do not want their kids taking performance enhancing drugs? Olympic medal means you make millions and a life time income from the states. Guess how much you make for sending your kid to die at Ukraine war? A new car and 20k dollars that’s a lot for Russian standards. And tell me which 15 year old Russian Athlete would regret taking drugs in exchange for their financial benefits? Child abuse is a thing in US, not in Russia.
@@Boymanjusri First of all, if it's her parents that have done so, then it's not her team's fault. Second of all, her team cares about the medals and Russia is not short of female athletes who can sweep that podium. Imagine you are the authority, you have 10 girls who can sweep that podium, would you risk doping one of them? On TMZ of all the drugs which have not clinically shown to actually enhance performance, especially on a sport like figure skating? It makes no sense. If you only had ONE girl that you can count on, at least I can believe it, but the top six russian female skaters can do the trick. Why would they still dope?
When the full report on Simona Halep, the Romanian multiple slam-winning tennis champion and former world #1, eventually came out it made sense why her punishment was so severe because the evidence was damning that the doping had been intentional. I suspect it will be the same for Kamila.
36:19 dave the biological sampling hair blood etc would be the most transparent for the testing / passports. It would be better if they are not allowed to compete until the war in Ukraine is over.
Why are you singling out russia? How many wars has the US started and never mind the by proxy wars that they engage in around the world as we speak. Shame on you to single out one nation one countless Nations have committed atrocities. Really really shameful. You are tingling Russia out because the media has done a great job of villainizing them. However, the United States has never been villainized for the countless wars they have started and by proxy wars to the extent that they were banned from an Olympics which is supposed to be immune to government actions. I would encourage you to educate yourself and rethink your decision
@@dkadkins6545 you are joking right? ukraine has been provoking Russia since 2008. israel has been bombing Palestine for several years now, the very least thing they are doing is defending themselves. You have been watching too much CNN my friend. Go inform yourself better so you don't look like an ignorant on social media.
Valieva is the first single skater in the history of figure skating to score more than 90 points in the short program, more than 185 points in the free skate and more than 272 total points in competitions under the auspices of the International Skating Union.
I really enjoyed this from Phil and Maya! Thanks Dave! Just one small correction though - Andreea Raducan was 16, not 17 at the 2000 Sydney Olympics when she was stripped of her AA gold medal.
I’m still upset about Andreea Raducan’s situation. And I still adore Simona Amanar for giving the gold back to Andreea. 🙏💕 I’ve only watched nine minutes of this video so far so I’m waiting to see if it is addressed how the Chinese team who won the bronze in the team final had their medals stripped and given to the formerly 4th place United States in 2010 iirc.
The last Olympics turned me off to figure skating somewhat, esp with the skater involved being so young. That and that other young Eteri skater who broke her pelvic bone were terrible to witness.
I agree with Dave. Chock and Bates should stay in for two more years. It would be Bates’ 5th Olympics. Fighting for gold. Get the podium? It’s an amazing branding story. Plus Madison is the most stunning skater to watch on the ice.
@@AuroraR ridiculous of that to happen they are not old mid thirties is nothing! And I do think they want to stay until the next Olympics until Evan said during Nationals that this could be their last now idk lol
@@nicnoodles I don’t understand it because people on X are always talking about longevity in Women’s ice skating. How they shouldn’t be so broken they have to retire at 17 and wish they had longer careers. Yet they don’t keep the same energy for Chock/Bates. I don’t understand why people dislike Chock/Bates so much.
I’ve never gotten the hate they seem to bring out on X. They’ve never done anything to anyone, yet so many people really don’t like them. It’s a mystery to me.
meanwhile the russian coaches will still be allowed to coach international students and have successful careers while the athletes have to suffer the consequences.
Also Philip forgot Sonja Henie - my dad born in 1920 remembered her- she was part of his generation - perhaps she was the first Ice queen! I would think she started it all!
@@TheSkatingLesson absolutely! I never thought of it before but skating has been seen largely as a women's sport. Although I think maybe Toller Cranston and John Curry did much to change that!!
TBH I don't understand why Philip Hersch believes this verdict is unusually harsh. I think maybe there is finally some push-back against Russia for it's continued, determined and unrepentant use of doping in its athletes. Perhaps someone can refresh my memory but wasn't there are great deal of doping done at Sochi and yet there were few consequences? Maybe Kamila is being made an example of, that this will no longer be tolerated??
If there was drugging in Sochi it was among the Russian figure skaters. As for making an example of Kamila to hurt the nation of russia, do you really think that's fair? Why not go after her coaches. Why not issue a ruling giving her a 3-month suspension or even a one-year suspension and stating that there must be an investigation into her coaching team? We all know that it is very likely that her coaches came to her to give her a quote unquote nutritional supplement and they drugged her, unbeknownst to Kamila. Kamila didn't need anything to win. You can follow her whole career girl on the ball merely a few months into joining Eteri, and she was a prodigy from the start even from before that. This girl did not need an angina medication to give her the abilities she has. This is very cruel punishment of a minor
Or maybe you shouldn't trust western media so much. We have absolutely no clue what was in that document that supposedly repudiated the supposed Russia-state funded doping scandal. Was it really state funded? Which sports were involved? How did they do it? We know literally nothing because suspiciously, nothing was even disclosed. What is clear is that they are using every inch they can think of to fight against Russia who won't just bow its head and submit to the western hegemon.
Thank you Dave for acknowledging that Kamila is the sacrificial lamb here. The way that the Russians train, there is no 15 year old Russian competitive figure skater in the world that would go against what their coaches tell them to do! As I've said before, if they drugged her then they drugged all of them and she still leaps and bounds above other gorgeous Russian skaters. I cannot help but be absolutely devastated for Kamila. I have said this from the beginning, it's highly likely that the restricted diet and inability to drink water coupled with excessive training schedules could cause heart palpitations and that her team thought she needed the medication and drugged her. My singular hope is that she will take the time in the next 2 years to rest her body from any injuries, grow into her new height, train her jumps properly so that her technique will be up to par for 2026, and continue to skate for herself even if it's non-competitive so that she can come in 2026 she can come back and hopefully get the gold metal that she so rightfully deserves. Had she been born in another country, she would have been in the Olympic champion because she's so incredibly talented and she did not need an angina medication. Someone in her team failed her, made her drink something, made her eat something, and drugged her and sabotaged her whole life. In 2026, without quads she could still win I believe. I think they need to stop over scoring pre rotated quads and this will level the playing field for skaters that have incredible artistic talents like Kamila. She's a once-in-a-lifetime skater, has body lines like no other, she's so unique and this is really a travesty
@@marisolgarcia3123I appreciate your kind words. I'm actually shocked that you don't like her skating style she's the most beautiful figure skater I've ever seen. She uses her whole body in a way that is unprecedented, her legs as well as upper body, arms and hand movements are just divine.
@@marisolgarcia3123and yes, we all deserve a second chance. Ruining somebody's career that they worked their whole lives for is unbelievable especially when they were a minor and under the control of the very strict coaches. Eteri is nicknamed Cruella Devil!
@@primalcrittersI concur. Her Bolero program is one of the best I’ve ever seen. My jaw dropped when I first saw her perform that program during Russian Nats.
But why are you not seeing the elephant in the room that has never been addressed? which is: WHY WOULD RUSSIA DO THIS? WHAT IS THE BENEFIT??? The top 6 female skaters in russia would've swept that podium. Why do they need to risk to dope Kamila? I have yet seen any argument about this. And why are they not doping Sasha Trusova who had to do the 5 quads? It makes absolutely no sense that Russia would risk having themselves permanently banned AND hard won medals taken away when they have plenty of competitors that can get them what they wanted CLEAN.
The coaching team should also be punished. There is no way Kamila was completely oblivious about doping either. Very strict instructions of using banned substance must had been given to her and her family- like dosage and timing, and the consequences for not following through. She must have known the risks
Do you have any idea how many athletes have being tested positive without them knowing what the heck happened? Look up the Romanian female tennis player who is still fighting for her innocence. You just don't hear about them in the news because she's not Russian.
In addition Maya, figure skating has mostly been viewed as a feminine sport in the USA. Much of the American general public view male figure skaters as feminine and gay, and consider that gay marriage only became legal across the states in 2015, you can imagine that much of the US public did not support watching a sport that they perceived as full of gay men. Certainly growing up as a young male figure skater, my athletic abilities and accomplishments fell second to homophobia and bullying, even from people within the sport. We saw how Johnny Weir was treated even by the skating media throughout his career. That is a big reason why I believe the US general public hasn't fully latched on to male figure skating as a sport discipline.
Dear Dave, thanks for this stimulating and meaningful video. I would like to know more about Rusada and what international boards are going to do about it. How could the doping scandal ever possibly be solved if the Russian antidoping agency doesn't fully comply with Wada rules? Correct me if I'm wrong, but they still test they athletes on major competitions only and their laboratories aren't still considered reliable. It's lack of random tests that made the Valieva's case possible, because it becomes easier to make plans.
former Olympian Andreas Krieger formely 'Heidi', was given steroids as part of the East German track and field team and at the time she had no idea. the coaching team and medical staff told her this was just routine vitamins, supplements etc. So I wouldn't be surprised if Kamilla didn't know.
Thank you for bringing reason. This is exactly what I believe occurred. Kamila should only have a verbal reprimand, and her coaches should be investigated. I am absolutely disgusted by this decision and the people that are spreading malicious comments and hate against Kamila are vile
She is pretty clear about no remorse, no regret, nothing wrong with taking prohibited subs. She is playing victim card, completely supporting her coaches and wronging the whole world instead of asking herself questions about what happened. Not even a shade of remorse. She played with the adults, the adults rules should be applied. She has to bear the responsibility. Her coaches and the rest of the support team should bear responsibility too.
Exactly. There's a reason why there's so many documentaries on Russian doping and the exposing over the years. One of the interesting facts I remember about this was that they discovered the urine samples weren't matching. For example, a male athlete would have a females urine sample. They would swop them for testing. From the doctors to athletes, there are so many who spoke out.
@@Jeremy-wp4yh yes they had a secret door in the lab that they sent the fake samples through. That’s why they got banned. Then they created the one ROC and now they are caught again doping. They will never stop cheating.
Butwait a sec everyone - if my calculations are correct, Russia still receives bronze without Kamila’s scores. But how on Earth are they going to decorate the team when Russian teams are totally banned by IOC?! What a mess. And I agree with Dave- the whole Russian federation should be a subject of investigation here
@Maya, @datkins I was really hoping you both were right here, but just check ISU’s page. Russia is one point ahead of Canada and on the third place. But what about Medal Ceremony now?! They just cannot decorate people being seen with “Z” on their Olympic jackets, supporting Putin!!
@dominiquedominique6462 But she was disqualified, and IOC practice is that one unqualified participant disqualifies an entire team. It violates IOC practice for them not to award that medal to Russia. Then again, we seem to be losing fairness and consistency these days.
@dkadkins Yeah, even if they choose not to follow this practice, it is still a very strange situation. They should move up every girl below ROC’s initial result and this means every girl (like every completed program) gains one more point. Then Canada ends up with one point ahead of Russia and gets bronze. I almost suspect ISU were in a hurry, made a calculation mistake and now they do not know what to do. But we are left with the situation, where there is no winner in ladies event, right now it starts with Japanese girls’ second place. It HAS to be corrected
the dirty sample was dated December 21st. Kamila❤ passed several more clean samples before the start of the Olympics. Lo and behold, WADA tested the sample from December as soon as Russia won the team tournament.😂😂😂 Good dirty job😎
@@TheSkatingLesson They deliberately reported the result too late. Valieva should have been notified weeks before the Olympics. It was all part of the political game.
I don't think the coaches were involved because it was not in their best interest. If she had not been under all that pressure all three on the podium would have been Russian. I don't like Eteri, but she would be shooting herself in the foot. I was in law enforcement for 35 years and the first thing you look at is who benefits. I hate to say it, but the most likely candidates are her competitors. One of them told Scott Hamilton they were worried that they were not even going to make the team.
I feel so sad for Kamila. Skating is all she knows, and now that part of her life is completely over, while the system that did this to her will continue to exist and abuse other children with no conequences. I know she's set for life financially, but this will be another hit to her psyche. I'm glad the team medals will finally be awarded, but other than that, this leaves a bitter taste in my mouth.
Thank you , Dave. When I saw this news break, I immediately kept going to your site, for information. I knew you would have something, but was so impressed that you assembled Maya and Phil so quickly. Kudos to you!
I listen to them while I'm driving all the time because the video is just their faces. I prefer to watch them talk because I like to see their facial expressions but it's not necessary
After this week, I hope you get a break, Dave. Your tireless efforts throughout the season are so appreciated. At this point, I’m a TSL addict. Thanks for assembling the avengers to discuss this breaking news!
Last year in San Jose, the tickets to the US championships was terribly expensive. I live near San Jose and did not go because of cost. The Bay Area also did not advertise it well. Glad it went better this year and the prices more reasonable. 😊
I LOVE smart people and you, Dave, Phil and Maya are truly SMART people. So appreciate the work, expertise, and knowledge in the three of you. Many thanks!
Be strong Kamilia! persevere and overcome. you are most talented skater in the world, and your talents are God given. A fifteen year old girl does not deliberately take a dangerous heart medicine which can cause lack of coordination and dizziness and dangerous to a young person. She is innocent if her team doctor gave this drug without her knowledge; she is innocent if it was sabotage. she is innocent if it was accidental contamination, and once of these three must logically be true, thus, she is innocent . the CAS standard is guilty unless proven innocent. The proof is the obvious logic: She does not need it as she is most graceful, artistic, and talented skater the world has ever seen, and she would do whatever her trainers tell her to do since she was only fifteen. i do not think her attorneys represented her in the best way. instead of shifting stories about glass, and cake, and ice cream, and tea, they should have attacked the hypocrisy of the antidoping agencies arguments on moral grounds. Law is not just about technicalities within what is called positive law. Law always contains natural law, moral issues. these antidoping agencies have become cruel and autocratic. They do not think about the immorality of destroying a young and protected person. Rather they think about sending a message to a country. the reasoning is no different than what we have seen in human history unfortunately forever. group A feels injured by group B and wants retribution and does not care if they injure innocent group C in the process. They hypocritically call it collateral damage. USA antidoping chief Travis Tygart epitomizes this philosophy. he stated about his case, "It’s the right outcome and let’s hope the clean athletes who competed in the Games can finally have some joy and satisfaction for their long wait for some justice despite their moment never being replaced. At the same time, our hearts hurt for yet another Russian athlete who the system failed, this one a young 15-year old girl. The system has to fix itself." He wants an outcome for group A, the clean skaters against a system of Russia, B, and does not mind injuring C, an innocent fifteen year old girl. 'Protected' clearly has no meaning and in fact to such hypocrites means 'Unprotected'. this kind of sanctimonious hypocrisy is widespread with humans. A injured us and we got revenge on B but injured innocent party C in the process. We feel sorry for C but our fight against B is righteous and so it goes. Kamila is a great young person who trained hard and used her God given talents to bring much joy to the world. She is always gracious to her fellow skaters and respectful of everyone. punishing her like this is incredibly callous and cruel. i hope she comes back and wins Olympics in future. it would be very challenging, but a tremendous heart-warming story if she could accomplish that. i think most fair-minded people in the world support her.
39:24- the passion in the statements to follow. I would want child protective services involved as this should be treated as medical neglect as banned substances have been found in trace amounts in a minor…
Completely agree. There are plenty of people that agree with us. Of course though, many commenters are being extremely harsh and love that the book was thrown at Kamila. I really do believe like Maya said that she was unknowingly drugged and throwing the book of her does nothing to penalize her coach. This girl did not need any substance to win and it's a complete travesty of Justice to ban her for 4 years especially when adults never mind juveniles with similar situations barely had reprimands. I hope they appeal it and she should at least have a 2-year band personally I think she should only have a verbal reprimand and her coaches should be investigated
I believe in fair sport. So I won't question a harsh sentence for doping. Especially not if the athlete is from a country that has several violations for doping.
@Jeremy-wp4yh if she was an independent adult I would totally agree. But she was a minor under supervision at the time. I don't think justice has been done.
@@laurianegms5862 I totally agree. She was a minor. Maybe she lied to protect the coaches. She wasn't in a position to have the material independence to tell the truth. The authorities surely know this.
A huge thanks to Maya for informing us of the reactions in Russia. Interesting to hear that this is front-page news in Russia. Honestly, I think this doping scandal has made Valieva more famous and popular within Russia than she would have been with an individual gold medal. As to what happens to Valieva now, I would look at all the athletes whose medals got stripped in 2014 Sochi Olympics. Are they still announced as Olympic champions/medalists? Do they still get to live in apartments awarded to them by the state and earn pensions?
Like other comments say, i feel sorry for Kamila because she was victimized by others. My personal wish is thst the actusl responsible parties were the ones punished. I dont see how Kamila will avoid being devasted, discouraged and demoralized by this whole situation and its outcome. Thank you, Dave, for the service you provide. And my thanks to your guests for their analysis and insight. I hope when the full report becomes available that you will provide a link for us to downlosd and read it.
I don't think the rest of the Russian team should be stripped of the gold as that would be unfair. Even without Valieva they would have won regardless whether Trusova or Sherbakova had been in the team event instead. USA shouldn't get an Olympic gold medal that they didn't win.
She competed for the TEAM, and her scores are what put them over. Her scores will be removed, and they basically forfeited the womens’ portion of the competition. That’s why they don’t win. It’s mathematics.
As a team if ONE person wins gold. Everyone wins the gold. So it only makes sense that if ONE person is caught doping while representing the team, Nobody gets a medal.
USA did legitimately won the gold medal, Japan legitimately won the silver and Canada legitimately won the bronze. There is one team that did not legitimately win because their athlete(s) were not clean. Facts.
Thank you for the conversation! As soon as I saw about this in my feed I went to see if you had anything on it thinking it was a little early but this was already here. 🙂
Dave should start his own sports agency/representation for gymnasts and figure skaters. Incredibly entrepreneurial and strategic advice for ice dancers at 47:00. ;)
Great podcast! I wouldn’t take that lie detector very seriously. There is a reason why they’re not admissible in court. The Behavior Panel talked about them recently, and how they are very unreliable.
I kinda want C/B to retire so that we can see the US ice dance field launch into a full blown competition for the top. They are all young teams that can be around for the next two Olympics.
So the adults have decided to punish a child - again. Do your homework on TMZ. The girl was not doped. I guess the lunatics at USADA finally got their way. Interesting, they let a weightlifter compete in a championship after busting that lifter for doping at the event to qualify for the championship. But here, with no evidence at all of doping, they have cried like babies to ban a Russian girl for four years. It's not surprising the UFC cut them loose.
Only psychopaths can think this girl was aware or even wanted to dope. The adults around her should be investigated as well the laboratory in Sweden, since the test results usually take 10 days and hers took around 2 months. Also, stop blaming Valieva's doctor after he went through a lie detector test and came out clean.
She was aware she was taking something. She knew about anti-doping because she had to get tested at each event. If the adults are the ones at fault, she needs to come forward and say so.
Honestly, I feel like IOC and ISU have already made the plans but not officially. I feel like this upcoming meeting is more of a formality where they're going to say okay. Well this happened. This is what it was and so we'll go and do this thing that we already planned to do and we were already thinking of doing if this happened.
It's a political decision if we look at the panel of CAS, basically 2 American arbitrators vs 1 French. No one can believe that American arbitrators can make a fair decision against a Russian athlete. I think Valieva and Russia were sabotaged so that they don't win the Team gold medal and they also fail at the individual event. It was fishy from day one how there was a delay in the Swedish lab and how the news came out during the Olympics, after the Team Event. I feel sorry for Kamila, she never deserved how she was treated in the past two years. I hope she will continue skating and will have a long career as a pro, too, because she is an extremely talented skater.
If we look into the calendar is sounds like a sabotage. First of all how did the IOC let an athlete into the games with a pending doping test? How come it took 2 months for the lab to give the results? How come the results came right after they won the team competition? Too many coincidences.
Russia did not win anything. They cheated. Any reasonable panel would ban her and the filthy state who chosw to drug her and others. Russians should hate their own government for doing this.
Marion Jones, Florence Griffith-Joyner, Lance Armstrong - are the names of these American dopers familiar to you? And who knows what made Phelps and Biles win dozens of Olympic gold medals too, to name just two names that were suspiciously successful US athletes in the past 1-2 decades.@novakd1530
She is going to be crucified in the comments for soft peddling this story and ignoring recent Russian doping. The water glass transfer is a ridiculous story.
I love that you could mobilize Phil and Maya immediately
I planned ahead
Dave. ..you deserve all the ducats for your innovative work. Thank you so much!
Dave planned ahead. Unlike the ISU. ❤️😂
I really want to thank Maya for participating in these videos with you. She is a very valuable asset to our understanding of figure skating as a global sport.
She is always a reminder that not everyone in Russian sport approves of the systemic issues surrounding cheating and she also points out how limited the freedoms of the athletes are to be autonomous.
Thank you Dave for organizing this for us so quickly, I actually was able to listen at work. As always, Phil and Maya were spectacular. I would imagine this is a tough situation for Maya, but I absolutely respect her professionalism and honesty given the facts that are known as of today. Heartbreaking that a 15-year-old is going to become the face of doping when we all know this was in all likelihood out of her hands. I want her entourage to go down.
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Eteri and her team should face some kind of consequences or punishment for likely providing the banned substance to Kamila. A 15 year old doesn't have the knowledge or wherewithal to take that on their own. In my opinion , every event that Team Tutberidze is now allowed to coach is tainted because of their/Eteri's presence. I feel sad for Kamila in a way since because of Eteri, she will likely never be an Olympic or World champ. The adults in the room definitely failed her.
I couldn't agree more. I would bet $1,000 that her coaches went to her to give her a quote unquote nutritional supplement laced and unbeknownst to Kamila. This is consistent with what Medvedeva said about Kamila's reaction when the news broke and how she was absolutely beside herself with confusion and devastation. Medvedeva said that a guilty athlete does not behave that way. Knowing how severe coaches are in Russia and how they fully control their athletes, I believe 1,000% that they drugged her. I am crying for this girl because she's the most talented figure skater in the history of the sport and so many around the world will miss her performances
I agree. You have to wonder if any of the other skaters under Eteri were given substances when they were Kamila’s age or younger that gave them an advantage coming up through the ranks while they were trying to make a name for themselves?
@@primalcrittersthis reminds me of what happened in East Germany back in the day to their gymnasts. I don’t remember her name, but one of their female gymnasts came out many years later and said that she was given some pills and was told they were nutritional supplements. They turned out to be something else that messed up her ability to have children.
Kamila in my opinion is being abused emotionally and still under impression that Eteri did nothing wrong by her.
@@QuirkyGirl10there is a whole documentary on here about East Germany’s extensive doping program. One East German athlete actually decided to just transition to being a transgender man because he (at the time she) was given testosterone and developed so many male characteristics that were irreversible; this wasn’t figure skating, but it was the same system.
The content I have been dying for since 9:15 a.m. Thank you Dave, Phil, and Maya. This feels like one of those situations where we will never know the complete truth and no one really wins. Thank you all for providing your perspectives.
You’re welcome.
The discourse between you and Maya is great. All sides of the story are highlighted and debated, which is so much more helpful than a one-sided diatribe. Ultimately it is very sad, a very talented girl has lost her career and her coaches have not been reprimanded at all. A fifteen year old doesn't dope alone. It is beyond me how her entourage is still allowed at international competitions. Thanks Dave.
Well that's why they said it was Grandpa's medication and she did it all on her own and now she's probably going to be fed the narrative as are the Russian people that it's everybody else who's after them and wants to exclude them and hates them but the reality is it is her Russian team and her Russian Federation who did this to her. I wonder if she has any realization of how she has been used and abused and will have to toe the line to be able to do stupid shows.
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An extremely sad day for Kamila I just hope she is OK and a sad day for the sport losing a phenomenon like Kamila, will it be for good!! I don't know, she is clearly a motivated young woman and her motivation was lost after the Olympics that was clear to see along with her growth. Only Kamila knows if she wants to train in isolation and knock off days 1 by 1 for the next 22months, you have to be mentally so strong to do that, I believe Kamila is as that's what made her tough to compete against aswel as her god given talent to ice-dance, I would like her to as it would be a big story come 2026, time will tell. My opinion on what happened is any little amount of drug doesn't help you skate with the artistry and musicality, her movements, understanding of the music like Kamila does, I hear some haters say it helps her train more to perfect what I've just said, all Russians take drugs yet none have ever skated like Kamila or is the greatest skater I've ever seen who from 13 was winning everything including worlds and setting WRs and doing exactly the same as a senior, annihilating everyone including Russians the only one taking a drug, the greatest figure skater needed help to beat skaters she was already beating by 30/40pts at the Russian Nationals. Something doesn't add up.. Whilst most of the comments on here were kind towards Kamila I'm sure there will be some that disagree with what I've said, that's fine as it's just my honest opinion. A good podcast that was fair.
You made some very good points. One of the saddest parts of this story is that because of this doping, Valieva will never be judged fairly for all her talent and skill.
Agree with everything!!!
She IS a beautiful skater, a one of a kind. She was exploited and failed by the adults around her. She didn't need drugs to be special, and it's a shame that her own team believed she needed the extra help. It's a true shame that we'll never see her full potential. She had the potential to become one of the all time greats in the sport.
@@cyrra8865It wasn’t proved how the drug got into her system. It’s a mystery.
The CAS decision prohibits Camila from participating in competitions domestically and abroad, prohibiting her from training at the skating rink or participating in shows where there is at least partial government funding. And in Russia, almost all skating rinks and shows have government funding. In fact, Camila will no longer be able to train and perform anywhere, in any shows. He can't do it anywhere. Figure skating was the meaning of life for Kamila. Now this world has collapsed. I hope those who contributed to this are happy.
My theory: they gave her a 4 year ban because there was some behind the scenes maneuvering to entice Russians back this coming year/season; therefore if she only served a 2 year backdated ban it would mean "nothing" since they couldn't compete internationally anyway.
Unfortunately, in addition to Valieva, there are still many good figure skaters in Russia, many will grow up just in time for the Olympics...Will these guys spoil their doping tests too? Or will the usual generally accepted humiliating slander towards Russian athletes be enough? It's interesting, we'll be watching.
Thanks to all of you but especially Maya for coming and providing us with valuable insight into the view from Russia. I really respect her professionalism.
It’s indeed very interesting to get her perspective on everything
Thank you Dave. I can't believe you were able to assemble a group so quickly after the news came out.
I can! Lol
Let's be honest, Eteri and her camp went to Kamila and gave her some quote unquote nutritional supplement to fortify her, and drugged her unknowingly. I would bet $1,000 that that's what happened. Medvedeva is very outspoken and we all love her for it and she was resolute that the day test came out she was with Kamila and that she was absolutely beside herself in confusion not understanding what was going on. This is not how a guilty athlete behaves. A young girl thrown under the bus and her coaches get the pass. I'm horrified
medvedeva also said that doping is useless in figure skating and ''won't help jump quads'' lol
А если вы хорошо подумайте, то поймёте, что тренер выводил на лёд трёх лучших фигуристок в мире, что Щербакова, что Трусова были лучше остальных в мире, конкурентов не было . Есть ли смысл в том, что вы сказали?!
@@oxanakoroleva6712nothing you said negates the fact that Kamila was caught doping. The sad thing is that Kamila, as well as the other Eteri girls, don’t need dope. Kamila would have won gold without doping. There was no need to give the girls substances. They are good enough without taking performance enhancing drugs.
Great video but I feel Kamila is really the scapegoat in all of this. Her coaches & team dr should be the ones banned. She was only 15,raised in a cocoon like atmosphere so please don't insult our intelligence and say she knowingly took the drug herself,the poor kid probably couldn't even pronounce the drug let alone know how to use it
Agree.
How is that insulting our intelligence? I got into drugs bad when I was 14 years old and I knew exactly what I was doing
no this is why there has to be an all Russia ban at least in figure skating. She bears some responsibility but not all. It goes to her coaches and all the way up to the top of Russia's sport organization whatever that is called. And for those other than the athletes it should be ten years. Basically ban them from the sport. Period.
Yes, Tutberidze is still coaching…why?
Well the Americans love to bash talented kids out of jealousy
I wonder how the team feels about losing the gold thanks to Eteri (she is the one to blame really…shes the coach).
Thanks Dave for making this!
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IMHO I think publicly they would show a united front, but privately there would be a lot of misgivings.
Dave, I know it's uncommon in the USA to have even one passport. But people of other countries (especially Europe) often have 2 passports from the time of birth or from a young age and may even acquire another as they move through life. It's possible that Diana Davis has Russian, Georgian and American passports. It's possible that some of the Russian coaches that were traveling to international competitions were not traveling as Russians but as the nationality of another passport. Each nationality is equally valid. By saying things like "She's about as Georgian as I am Canadian," you're implying she's doing something wrong. I'm sure she has a Georgian passport while you most likely don't have a Canadian passport. Statements like that don't serve the high level of credibility that you normally demonstrate otherwise.
And having been born in the USA she may have an American passport.
@@joanfoley6148Diana Davis does have a US passport. She was born in Las Vegas. Although I understand the argument against her competing for Georgia; her connection to that country is very limited
This is such a well written comment, providing both information and a polite critique with respect.
North Americans seem to have a very pure perspective on dual citizenship. Fans of figure skating and gymnastics often seem to not follow other sports. I find this to be quite unusual within sports fandom.
Because of this, figure skating and gymnastics fans seem to be unaware of how many athletes in Olympic sports have dual citizenship and are not competing for the country of their birth. I myself did not realize the sheer amount until the Olympics started streaming heats and qualifying rounds and we get to see 90% more athletes than the ones who make the finals which are shown on TV.
Many of these dual citizenship athletes have no family connection to the country they are competing for.
Imho athletes who have trained all their lives to compete at the highest levels may go right ahead and compete for any country that wants to give them citizenship. Why not? As long as the rules of the athlete’s sport and of the IOC allow it, they are almost encouraging athletes to use this option.
I’m glad you wrote what you did, but I’m sorry that the RUclipsr has not acknowledged your comment.
I, of course, love it when Phil is on (please come back!), but I absolutely love Maya's perspective on these events. It is so valuable to know what is happening with Russian figure skating, and I love how Maya fact checks in real time. And, the discourse between you (Dave) and Maya is wonderful. Thank you, Dave, for your learned opinions on these subjects, and keep up the good work! As for Valiaeva, I do believe that she is being thrown under the bus for this doping case -- while I believe that she should have been disqualified from the 2022 Olympics, I believe that 4 years is too long for a punishment. Instead, her coaches and doctor staff should be banned for those years, and perhaps even more for doping a child -- disgraceful behavior by adults who are interested in bolstering their own careers by putting a child at both physical and psychological risk. Shame on them.
The way the dumb system is set up is absurd. She is protected enough to compete despite a positive drug result yet she isn't protected enough that her team and federation take responsibility. It's completely illogical. Eteri and Shvetsky? walk with impunity. I do think the 4 years is right. She hasn't really been banned from anything that every other clean Russian has been banned for and I know it's not her but they have been continually telling lies and selling that grandpa (glass or dessert) story instead of taking any responsibility. It's unacceptable bs. She is a kid but the lies are insulting.
David, you provide an essential service in figure skating worldwide, I salute you.
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Would love to see you commentate at an event with Ashley Wagner and Adam Rippon. You have a great mix of historical knowledge, behind the scenes knowledge, fan and skater. I enjoy listening to your shows.
To be honest, as sad as it sounds, whether she is banned or not, Kamila has reached her 'expiry' date. So her being banned makes no difference, as there is almost no chance she would be competitive by the time Russia is allowed back in the world stage anyway.
That's what I thought too.
Sadly yes,Eteri will just ignore her and go after the next young one.
Exactly. There was no reason for CAS to not have this decision: 1. Kamila won't be competing anyways, so no "harm" toward her right? 2. Russia has been banned indefinitely and we don't even know if they'd be allowed back in the olympics anytime soon so who cares, and 3. CAS's reputation had been in stake ever since Beijing when they ruled that Kamila can compete because she's a minor. They had so much backlash that they had to essentially win back the crowd.
People don't understand that this was never about what was fair. This had always been about politics.
Well... somehow I got the feeling that it was the ridiculous "grandpa`s waterglass/ grandpa`s cake" - story that really made the people at CAS furious - I mean, doping is a bad thing, no question, but telling blatant lies to both the ISU and the IOC is even worse. Kamila and her team didn`t even shy away from indirectly putting the blame on a member of her family, some thousands of miles away.This is really disgusting.- and very silly.
Sorry for my bad english, I hope it`s not too messy 🙂
I don't feel any sense of relief from this. I don't see how this decision moves sport in the right direction, it's more about moving back to what it used to be before this doping scandal. Just like after the whole piss scandal. Punishing just Valieva achieves nothing because she's just a screw in the whole machine and is victim at the end of the day.
Victims are also perpetrators at times even when the lines aren’t blurred in a machine.
Victims are also perpetrators at times even when the lines aren’t blurred in a machine.
7:43 I could absolutely see any kid not being fully informed at all of the supplements they were given....which is why it's a misjustice when her responsible adults are not being punished appropriately
That’s what happened in the former East Germany. Athletes were given substances and were told they were nutritional supplements. One former gymnast couldn’t have children as a result of taking such substances.
I think it’s fine if the US are awarded their medal anywhere frankly. I personally don’t need to see that gold medal award ceremony in the next Olympics. We don’t need further investigations. The athlete & Russian federation has been punished move on. Personally, I don’t like David Lease’s speculations. I would prefer the next Olympics to please have no politics attached to it. Thanks.
Sadly there is always politics attached to this corrupted sport.
A lie-detector is really not very sensitive or specific! They are not backed sufficiently by science (and therefore not used at all in most European countries) so it really doesn't mean much to me that that Dr. "passed" it. You can even take drugs to help you pass, like mild tranquillisers and blood pressure medication. One could speculate he came well prepared...
The coaches should have also been suspended
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Absolutely.
еще чего 🤣🤣🤣а рожа не треснет ? 🤣🤣🤣
So they are not going to do anything to Eteri Tutberidze? We all know she is the mastermind behind it. Haven’t finished watching this video yet but it sure sounds like Team Tut isn’t getting any repercussions. ETA: Kamila is taking all the heat while Eteri is free to abuse more girls and produce more disposable “champions.” This will happen again until Eteri gets punished
First time commenting but your discussion on "why female skaters?" was so interesting to hear over here in Japan because figure skating was all about the ladies for quite a while. My generation remembers Miki Ando, Shizuka Arakawa, and of course, Mao Asada pretty well. But 2014 was literally the turning point when the ladies stopped reaching the podium (albeit Mao's having a heartwarming free program)and a certain Yuzuru Hanyu won Gold for the first time. It was a 180 degree turn in our culture, symbolized by the release of an anime focusing on cute possibly homosexual boys competing at the Grand Prix series. - I always thought that reaching the podium is the biggest quality when it comes to Japan and this sport, but even with Eteri's girls out of the picture, I'm not entirely sure about that being the case because Kaori doesn't have the cameras on her the way Miki or Mao once did. The girls are doing pretty well but the hysteria around the girls seems to be gone and it's pretty unfortunate.
Edit: I'm gonna keep it real. I forgot to note that in the specific case of Mao, her "rivalry" with Yuna (I'm putting quotation marks only because I feel like this was created in a lab by the media rather than it being a genuine personal one) has definitely contributed to the hype.
Thank you for providing this insight into Japanese culture/perspective!
Two athletes one American swimmer who was an adult that had Trimetazidine in their systems both got minor ramifications. The bobsledder got a verbal warning, and the American swimmer got a 6-month ban. Then the Jamaican swimmer that tested positive for two illegal substances on two different tests got only a verbal reprimand because she was a juvenile. Not only did they treat Kamila as an adult, but adults with a similar tests were treated with minimal judgments in comparison to Kamila. Justice is supposed to be blind, yet they are picking and choosing who to turn up the fire on!
Perhaps the sentence is related to Russia's history of doping across many sport disciplines
Yeah but did they lie and say there were innocent like she did? They tend to be harsher if you lie.
You fail to mention key important facts, like the one swimmer swam for the YMCA, oppose to let’s say ohhhhhhh an Olympic professional athlete. Facts matter in the real world, you should try applying the facts along with reason and logic.
Because it was a political show trial. The president represented the UK and Australia and worked in the US and one arbitrator was from the USA vs one from France. There shouldn't be any arbitrators from the US or from countries that are allies with the US in a case that involves a Russian skater. Therefore this decision can't be taken seriously in any way. Only some nationalistic and biased Americans are happy today that "bad Russia" got banned and that Team USA will get the gold medal.
They’re American they get away with too much atp
I appreciate Maya’s participation in these discussions, as well as her candor.
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Maybe the reason she got the book thrown at her was because Russia kept delaying the proceedings for 2 years. If the whole thing had happened with a verdict within 6 months of the last Olympics, she was much younger then and hadn't had her growth spurt, a slap on the wrist would have been all CAS would give her because she looked so young. The longer it was dragged out, the less favourable the findings.
I think they also “threw the book at her” because they felt that the “grandpa’s water” story was an insult to their intelligence. Idk who told Kamila to say that (probably Eteri) but there are so many more plausible excuses Kamila could have given…
To me, the most startling language in the CAS statement reflects that Valieva INTENTIONALLY and KNOWINGLY doped, and thus the 4 year ban. They make clear it was no accident. That's very damning. I don't hear this angle discussed much here. CAS also mooted the age factor.
It's insane because it's highly likely her coaches drugged her unbeknownst to Kamila, get her coaches get no reprimand and she is thrown under the bus. Medvedeva who is very outspoken said she was with Kamila when the news broke and that she was absolutely confused and beside herself. She said she did not behave like a guilty athlete trying to lay blame on others, she was confused and didn't understand how that medication got into her system. Shame on CAS
She couldn’t provide a believable explanation as to how the medicine accidentally got to her system (and she didn’t blame anybody for giving her the medicine). If an athlete claims accidental ingestion, they are expected to prove it. I am surprised that Russia didn’t just throw the team doctor under the bus instead of Kamila though. They could have said that the doctor gave her the medicine and Kamila didn’t know it was a banned medicine. But the doctor publicly denied such accusations and said he had nothing to do with this case
@@sirena3470in Russia, they have a “take one for the team” mentality, protecting the goals of the group over the individual. It is clear that they made Kamila take all of the blame to “protect” Eteri, the doctor, and Russian FS as a whole. I am convinced that they told Kamila what to say and that they told her to throw away the individual free skate so that her teammates could bring home medals
@@d.n.8919This. From the moment of Kamila’s first bobble in her Olympic free skate, I was 100% certain that it was intentional. When I learned her kiss & cry comment - “at least now the medal won’t be contested” (meaning, she did poorly enough that she was no longer a contender for a medal) - I was even more convinced. It’s unlikely we’ll never know, though.
No that's not correct. The verdict says: She cannot prove definitively that she did NOT intentionally take the drug. Ergo: She's guilty before proving innocent. You can't prove a negative. That's stupid.
I believe Kamila and I believe Medvedeva assessment on Kamila. It’s a dark story, nobody knows the truth.
Beckie Scott finished third at the 5 km cross country race at the Salt lake Olympic Games but was upgraded to gold after the two Russians who finished ahead of her were disqualified for doping . She didn't receive her gold medal until over 2 afterwards at the Vancouver Art Gallery. Do not hold your breath on a fancy ceremony for the figure skating medals.
When the Tokyo "2020" British 4×100m relay team was disqualified for one member testing positive for a banned substance the Canadian team was upgraded to Silver - they got their medals at a Canadian T& F Championship 2 years later. Not sure when/where the Chinese team who then got Bronze got theirs? These kind of things don't usually get a big flashy presentation.
I am on Maya's side here.
And a 15 yr old did not get the drugs herself. The ISU and the system at large is to blame, because they do not prioritize protecting the athletes, safe sport and doping free. This is horrible child abuse either way. We know Eteri's method.
And the abuse in fs goes beyond Russia, in Korea the sheer number of pressure and ranking competition put on the athletes. Japan has Mie Hamada. Eteri still roams free like a happy scarecrow and gets a TV show. Isabeau Levito breaks on the ice at US nationals and misses multiple spins. And everybody with power in the sport congratulates this coaches.
If her age is the justification for looking the other way, then she does not belong in an adult competition. It is patently unfair to her competitors to give her a pass on something they would be crucified for.
Tell me which Russian parents do not want their kids taking performance enhancing drugs? Olympic medal means you make millions and a life time income from the states. Guess how much you make for sending your kid to die at Ukraine war? A new car and 20k dollars that’s a lot for Russian standards. And tell me which 15 year old Russian Athlete would regret taking drugs in exchange for their financial benefits? Child abuse is a thing in US, not in Russia.
@@Boymanjusri First of all, if it's her parents that have done so, then it's not her team's fault. Second of all, her team cares about the medals and Russia is not short of female athletes who can sweep that podium. Imagine you are the authority, you have 10 girls who can sweep that podium, would you risk doping one of them? On TMZ of all the drugs which have not clinically shown to actually enhance performance, especially on a sport like figure skating? It makes no sense. If you only had ONE girl that you can count on, at least I can believe it, but the top six russian female skaters can do the trick. Why would they still dope?
When the full report on Simona Halep, the Romanian multiple slam-winning tennis champion and former world #1, eventually came out it made sense why her punishment was so severe because the evidence was damning that the doping had been intentional. I suspect it will be the same for Kamila.
36:19 dave the biological sampling hair blood etc would be the most transparent for the testing / passports.
It would be better if they are not allowed to compete until the war in Ukraine is over.
Why was there an israel skater in these last europeans?
Why are you singling out russia? How many wars has the US started and never mind the by proxy wars that they engage in around the world as we speak. Shame on you to single out one nation one countless Nations have committed atrocities. Really really shameful. You are tingling Russia out because the media has done a great job of villainizing them. However, the United States has never been villainized for the countless wars they have started and by proxy wars to the extent that they were banned from an Olympics which is supposed to be immune to government actions. I would encourage you to educate yourself and rethink your decision
@@TheEmmaSmithbecause they were defending their country after it was attacked, not invading one without provocation.
@@dkadkins6545 you are joking right?
ukraine has been provoking Russia since 2008. israel has been bombing Palestine for several years now, the very least thing they are doing is defending themselves. You have been watching too much CNN my friend. Go inform yourself better so you don't look like an ignorant on social media.
Because israel didn't start the war but russia started the war
Valieva is the first single skater in the history of figure skating to score more than 90 points in the short program, more than 185 points in the free skate and more than 272 total points in competitions under the auspices of the International Skating Union.
The scores of domestic competitions don't count.
I really enjoyed this from Phil and Maya! Thanks Dave! Just one small correction though - Andreea Raducan was 16, not 17 at the 2000 Sydney Olympics when she was stripped of her AA gold medal.
Thank you!
I’m still upset about Andreea Raducan’s situation. And I still adore Simona Amanar for giving the gold back to Andreea. 🙏💕
I’ve only watched nine minutes of this video so far so I’m waiting to see if it is addressed how the Chinese team who won the bronze in the team final had their medals stripped and given to the formerly 4th place United States in 2010 iirc.
I really appreciate hearing Maya’s thoughts. Thanks, Dave, for including her perspective.
Glad you enjoyed it
The last Olympics turned me off to figure skating somewhat, esp with the skater involved being so young. That and that other young Eteri skater who broke her pelvic bone were terrible to witness.
I agree with Dave. Chock and Bates should stay in for two more years. It would be Bates’ 5th Olympics. Fighting for gold. Get the podium? It’s an amazing branding story. Plus Madison is the most stunning skater to watch on the ice.
I agree. I love them. Even if everyone on X age shames them and wants them to retire.
yes, it worked for Aljona. Girl finally got her gold and in great style as well.
@@AuroraR ridiculous of that to happen they are not old mid thirties is nothing! And I do think they want to stay until the next Olympics until Evan said during Nationals that this could be their last now idk lol
@@nicnoodles I don’t understand it because people on X are always talking about longevity in Women’s ice skating. How they shouldn’t be so broken they have to retire at 17 and wish they had longer careers. Yet they don’t keep the same energy for Chock/Bates. I don’t understand why people dislike Chock/Bates so much.
I’ve never gotten the hate they seem to bring out on X. They’ve never done anything to anyone, yet so many people really don’t like them. It’s a mystery to me.
How has the ISU not already decided what they would do in the case of all possible cases rulings?
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meanwhile the russian coaches will still be allowed to coach international students and have successful careers while the athletes have to suffer the consequences.
Tutberidze doping coach
Also Philip forgot Sonja Henie - my dad born in 1920 remembered her- she was part of his generation - perhaps she was the first Ice queen! I would think she started it all!
You are correct. He did a good job explaining it on the spot with no advance warning.
@@TheSkatingLesson absolutely! I never thought of it before but skating has been seen largely as a women's sport. Although I think maybe Toller Cranston and John Curry did much to change that!!
@@Patricia599 I agree. Beautiful male skaters!
TBH I don't understand why Philip Hersch believes this verdict is unusually harsh. I think maybe there is finally some push-back against Russia for it's continued, determined and unrepentant use of doping in its athletes. Perhaps someone can refresh my memory but wasn't there are great deal of doping done at Sochi and yet there were few consequences? Maybe Kamila is being made an example of, that this will no longer be tolerated??
If there was drugging in Sochi it was among the Russian figure skaters. As for making an example of Kamila to hurt the nation of russia, do you really think that's fair? Why not go after her coaches. Why not issue a ruling giving her a 3-month suspension or even a one-year suspension and stating that there must be an investigation into her coaching team? We all know that it is very likely that her coaches came to her to give her a quote unquote nutritional supplement and they drugged her, unbeknownst to Kamila. Kamila didn't need anything to win. You can follow her whole career girl on the ball merely a few months into joining Eteri, and she was a prodigy from the start even from before that. This girl did not need an angina medication to give her the abilities she has. This is very cruel punishment of a minor
Or maybe you shouldn't trust western media so much. We have absolutely no clue what was in that document that supposedly repudiated the supposed Russia-state funded doping scandal. Was it really state funded? Which sports were involved? How did they do it? We know literally nothing because suspiciously, nothing was even disclosed.
What is clear is that they are using every inch they can think of to fight against Russia who won't just bow its head and submit to the western hegemon.
Thank you Dave for acknowledging that Kamila is the sacrificial lamb here. The way that the Russians train, there is no 15 year old Russian competitive figure skater in the world that would go against what their coaches tell them to do! As I've said before, if they drugged her then they drugged all of them and she still leaps and bounds above other gorgeous Russian skaters. I cannot help but be absolutely devastated for Kamila. I have said this from the beginning, it's highly likely that the restricted diet and inability to drink water coupled with excessive training schedules could cause heart palpitations and that her team thought she needed the medication and drugged her.
My singular hope is that she will take the time in the next 2 years to rest her body from any injuries, grow into her new height, train her jumps properly so that her technique will be up to par for 2026, and continue to skate for herself even if it's non-competitive so that she can come in 2026 she can come back and hopefully get the gold metal that she so rightfully deserves. Had she been born in another country, she would have been in the Olympic champion because she's so incredibly talented and she did not need an angina medication. Someone in her team failed her, made her drink something, made her eat something, and drugged her and sabotaged her whole life.
In 2026, without quads she could still win I believe. I think they need to stop over scoring pre rotated quads and this will level the playing field for skaters that have incredible artistic talents like Kamila. She's a once-in-a-lifetime skater, has body lines like no other, she's so unique and this is really a travesty
I don’t like his skating style to be honest, but I do feel bad for he, we all deserve a second chance
@@marisolgarcia3123I appreciate your kind words. I'm actually shocked that you don't like her skating style she's the most beautiful figure skater I've ever seen. She uses her whole body in a way that is unprecedented, her legs as well as upper body, arms and hand movements are just divine.
@@marisolgarcia3123and yes, we all deserve a second chance. Ruining somebody's career that they worked their whole lives for is unbelievable especially when they were a minor and under the control of the very strict coaches. Eteri is nicknamed Cruella Devil!
@@primalcrittersI concur. Her Bolero program is one of the best I’ve ever seen. My jaw dropped when I first saw her perform that program during Russian Nats.
But why are you not seeing the elephant in the room that has never been addressed? which is: WHY WOULD RUSSIA DO THIS? WHAT IS THE BENEFIT??? The top 6 female skaters in russia would've swept that podium. Why do they need to risk to dope Kamila? I have yet seen any argument about this. And why are they not doping Sasha Trusova who had to do the 5 quads? It makes absolutely no sense that Russia would risk having themselves permanently banned AND hard won medals taken away when they have plenty of competitors that can get them what they wanted CLEAN.
The coaching team should also be punished. There is no way Kamila was completely oblivious about doping either. Very strict instructions of using banned substance must had been given to her and her family- like dosage and timing, and the consequences for not following through. She must have known the risks
Agreed!
Do you have any idea how many athletes have being tested positive without them knowing what the heck happened? Look up the Romanian female tennis player who is still fighting for her innocence. You just don't hear about them in the news because she's not Russian.
I hope Chock/Bates listens to you Dave. I loved this video! ❤ Thank you 😊
In addition Maya, figure skating has mostly been viewed as a feminine sport in the USA. Much of the American general public view male figure skaters as feminine and gay, and consider that gay marriage only became legal across the states in 2015, you can imagine that much of the US public did not support watching a sport that they perceived as full of gay men. Certainly growing up as a young male figure skater, my athletic abilities and accomplishments fell second to homophobia and bullying, even from people within the sport. We saw how Johnny Weir was treated even by the skating media throughout his career. That is a big reason why I believe the US general public hasn't fully latched on to male figure skating as a sport discipline.
Dear Dave, thanks for this stimulating and meaningful video.
I would like to know more about Rusada and what international boards are going to do about it.
How could the doping scandal ever possibly be solved if the Russian antidoping agency doesn't fully comply with Wada rules? Correct me if I'm wrong, but they still test they athletes on major competitions only and their laboratories aren't still considered reliable. It's lack of random tests that made the Valieva's case possible, because it becomes easier to make plans.
former Olympian Andreas Krieger formely 'Heidi', was given steroids as part of the East German track and field team and at the time she had no idea. the coaching team and medical staff told her this was just routine vitamins, supplements etc. So I wouldn't be surprised if Kamilla didn't know.
Thank you for bringing reason. This is exactly what I believe occurred. Kamila should only have a verbal reprimand, and her coaches should be investigated. I am absolutely disgusted by this decision and the people that are spreading malicious comments and hate against Kamila are vile
@@primalcritters even though she never knew, she still doped. Which would make her unworthy of medals by default.
a verbal reprimand? tell that to Raducan
She is pretty clear about no remorse, no regret, nothing wrong with taking prohibited subs. She is playing victim card, completely supporting her coaches and wronging the whole world instead of asking herself questions about what happened. Not even a shade of remorse. She played with the adults, the adults rules should be applied. She has to bear the responsibility. Her coaches and the rest of the support team should bear responsibility too.
@@susannahkatz7351 Second that. Also in her case the team doctor that administered the pseudoephedrine was banned for 2 Olympic cycles.
Isn’t this type of doping a known practice with this country? From things I have heard they do this all the time.
Exactly. There's a reason why there's so many documentaries on Russian doping and the exposing over the years. One of the interesting facts I remember about this was that they discovered the urine samples weren't matching. For example, a male athlete would have a females urine sample. They would swop them for testing. From the doctors to athletes, there are so many who spoke out.
@@Jeremy-wp4yh yes they had a secret door in the lab that they sent the fake samples through. That’s why they got banned. Then they created the one ROC and now they are caught again doping. They will never stop cheating.
All athletes do doping. Especially American and Canadian athletes.
@@Eagle90able lol is that your excuse?
It’s sad that we’re surprised about a fair decision.
Fair? Hahahaha yeah right
Butwait a sec everyone - if my calculations are correct, Russia still receives bronze without Kamila’s scores. But how on Earth are they going to decorate the team when Russian teams are totally banned by IOC?! What a mess. And I agree with Dave- the whole Russian federation should be a subject of investigation here
Nope. It’s not just Kamila’s points to be deducted. Other teams get more points at the same time. Thus - only 4th place for Russia
Her participation invalidates them as a team. Period.
@Maya, @datkins I was really hoping you both were right here, but just check ISU’s page. Russia is one point ahead of Canada and on the third place. But what about Medal Ceremony now?! They just cannot decorate people being seen with “Z” on their Olympic jackets, supporting Putin!!
@dominiquedominique6462 But she was disqualified, and IOC practice is that one unqualified participant disqualifies an entire team. It violates IOC practice for them not to award that medal to Russia. Then again, we seem to be losing fairness and consistency these days.
@dkadkins Yeah, even if they choose not to follow this practice, it is still a very strange situation. They should move up every girl below ROC’s initial result and this means every girl (like every completed program) gains one more point. Then Canada ends up with one point ahead of Russia and gets bronze. I almost suspect ISU were in a hurry, made a calculation mistake and now they do not know what to do. But we are left with the situation, where there is no winner in ladies event, right now it starts with Japanese girls’ second place. It HAS to be corrected
Dave is on it! Thank you❤
the dirty sample was dated December 21st. Kamila❤ passed several more clean samples before the start of the Olympics. Lo and behold, WADA tested the sample from December as soon as Russia won the team tournament.😂😂😂 Good dirty job😎
That is factually inaccurate. They had tested the sample prior to that day. It took that long for the results to be processed and reported.
@@TheSkatingLesson They deliberately reported the result too late. Valieva should have been notified weeks before the Olympics. It was all part of the political game.
Eteri needs to be punished. She is abusive. I question what Anna and Sasha were taking and they flew under the radar.
I don't think the coaches were involved because it was not in their best interest. If she had not been under all that pressure all three on the podium would have been Russian. I don't like Eteri, but she would be shooting herself in the foot. I was in law enforcement for 35 years and the first thing you look at is who benefits. I hate to say it, but the most likely candidates are her competitors. One of them told Scott Hamilton they were worried that they were not even going to make the team.
I agree with David-she was controlled by others and ultimately the state sponsored activities and personnel need to be held accountable!
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I feel so sad for Kamila. Skating is all she knows, and now that part of her life is completely over, while the system that did this to her will continue to exist and abuse other children with no conequences. I know she's set for life financially, but this will be another hit to her psyche. I'm glad the team medals will finally be awarded, but other than that, this leaves a bitter taste in my mouth.
We love Maya and Phil.
The thing I love about Maya is how she is consistent with being true to the facts
Kamila is a casualty of political war, teams war, ISU war.
I love this coverage. Very informative.
Thank you so much for the open, honest and passionate discussion! Thank you for bringing Maya and Phil together with their thoughtful insights!!
Thank you , Dave. When I saw this news break, I immediately kept going to your site, for information. I knew you would have something, but was so impressed that you assembled Maya and Phil so quickly. Kudos to you!
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is the skating lesson available on podcast. it would be nice to listen when I am in the car rather than watching.
Not yet!
I listen to them while I'm driving all the time because the video is just their faces. I prefer to watch them talk because I like to see their facial expressions but it's not necessary
I love Maya. Her insight is amazing.
Great video Dave. I love it when are able to bring Maya and Phil on.
After this week, I hope you get a break, Dave. Your tireless efforts throughout the season are so appreciated. At this point, I’m a TSL addict. Thanks for assembling the avengers to discuss this breaking news!
Lots planned this week
Last year in San Jose, the tickets to the US championships was terribly expensive. I live near San Jose and did not go because of cost. The Bay Area also did not advertise it well. Glad it went better this year and the prices more reasonable. 😊
I LOVE smart people and you, Dave, Phil and Maya are truly SMART people. So appreciate the work, expertise, and knowledge in the three of you. Many thanks!
Wow, thank you!
I thought I was excited for US Nationals but THIS TEA CAME IN SCALDING
Maya is awesome! She asks great questions and has great insight
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Maya is really a class act.
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Be strong Kamilia! persevere and overcome. you are most talented skater in the world, and your talents are God given. A fifteen year old girl does not deliberately take a dangerous heart medicine which can cause lack of coordination and dizziness and dangerous to a young person. She is innocent if her team doctor gave this drug without her knowledge; she is innocent if it was sabotage. she is innocent if it was accidental contamination, and once of these three must logically be true, thus, she is innocent . the CAS standard is guilty unless proven innocent. The proof is the obvious logic: She does not need it as she is most graceful, artistic, and talented skater the world has ever seen, and she would do whatever her trainers tell her to do since she was only fifteen. i do not think her attorneys represented her in the best way. instead of shifting stories about glass, and cake, and ice cream, and tea, they should have attacked the hypocrisy of the antidoping agencies arguments on moral grounds. Law is not just about technicalities within what is called positive law. Law always contains natural law, moral issues. these antidoping agencies have become cruel and autocratic. They do not think about the immorality of destroying a young and protected person. Rather they think about sending a message to a country. the reasoning is no different than what we have seen in human history unfortunately forever. group A feels injured by group B and wants retribution and does not care if they injure innocent group C in the process. They hypocritically call it collateral damage. USA antidoping chief Travis Tygart epitomizes this philosophy. he stated about his case, "It’s the right outcome and let’s hope the clean athletes who competed in the Games can finally have some joy and satisfaction for their long wait for some justice despite their moment never being replaced. At the same time, our hearts hurt for yet another Russian athlete who the system failed, this one a young 15-year old girl. The system has to fix itself." He wants an outcome for group A, the clean skaters against a system of Russia, B, and does not mind injuring C, an innocent fifteen year old girl. 'Protected' clearly has no meaning and in fact to such hypocrites means 'Unprotected'. this kind of sanctimonious hypocrisy is widespread with humans. A injured us and we got revenge on B but injured innocent party C in the process. We feel sorry for C but our fight against B is righteous and so it goes. Kamila is a great young person who trained hard and used her God given talents to bring much joy to the world. She is always gracious to her fellow skaters and respectful of everyone. punishing her like this is incredibly callous and cruel. i hope she comes back and wins Olympics in future. it would be very challenging, but a tremendous heart-warming story if she could accomplish that. i think most fair-minded people in the world support her.
Great video, thank you for covering this information.
You’re welcome.
39:24- the passion in the statements to follow. I would want child protective services involved as this should be treated as medical neglect as banned substances have been found in trace amounts in a minor…
4 years is so harsh for someone who was a minor at the time. And why the delay?? This doesnt feel settled at all.
Completely agree. There are plenty of people that agree with us. Of course though, many commenters are being extremely harsh and love that the book was thrown at Kamila. I really do believe like Maya said that she was unknowingly drugged and throwing the book of her does nothing to penalize her coach. This girl did not need any substance to win and it's a complete travesty of Justice to ban her for 4 years especially when adults never mind juveniles with similar situations barely had reprimands. I hope they appeal it and she should at least have a 2-year band personally I think she should only have a verbal reprimand and her coaches should be investigated
Maybe because her defense was based on a lie and Russada keep delay the sentence did not help her!! The adult around her failed and should be punish
I believe in fair sport. So I won't question a harsh sentence for doping. Especially not if the athlete is from a country that has several violations for doping.
@Jeremy-wp4yh if she was an independent adult I would totally agree. But she was a minor under supervision at the time. I don't think justice has been done.
@@laurianegms5862 I totally agree. She was a minor. Maybe she lied to protect the coaches. She wasn't in a position to have the material independence to tell the truth. The authorities surely know this.
A huge thanks to Maya for informing us of the reactions in Russia. Interesting to hear that this is front-page news in Russia. Honestly, I think this doping scandal has made Valieva more famous and popular within Russia than she would have been with an individual gold medal.
As to what happens to Valieva now, I would look at all the athletes whose medals got stripped in 2014 Sochi Olympics. Are they still announced as Olympic champions/medalists? Do they still get to live in apartments awarded to them by the state and earn pensions?
Like other comments say, i feel sorry for Kamila because she was victimized by others. My personal wish is thst the actusl responsible parties were the ones punished. I dont see how Kamila will avoid being devasted, discouraged and demoralized by this whole situation and its outcome.
Thank you, Dave, for the service you provide. And my thanks to your guests for their analysis and insight.
I hope when the full report becomes available that you will provide a link for us to downlosd and read it.
Chrisitne is missing, but this is a wonderful meeting of the minds. I love Maya.
Thank goodness!
She is likely prepping for CNN. I asked her in advance, but she was flying today.
Fantastic, regardless@@TheSkatingLesson
It will be interesting to see if the CAS upholds the Simona Halep 4 year suspension when she appeals it in early Feb.
With Diana and Gleb wouldn’t it be ironic if Eteris cheating for Kamilia ends up robbing her own daughters chances of world or Olympic medal?
I don't think the rest of the Russian team should be stripped of the gold as that would be unfair. Even without Valieva they would have won regardless whether Trusova or Sherbakova had been in the team event instead. USA shouldn't get an Olympic gold medal that they didn't win.
She competed for the TEAM, and her scores are what put them over. Her scores will be removed, and they basically forfeited the womens’ portion of the competition. That’s why they don’t win. It’s mathematics.
Chances are the entire team were on these drugs. What goes for one goes for all
As a team if ONE person wins gold. Everyone wins the gold. So it only makes sense that if ONE person is caught doping while representing the team, Nobody gets a medal.
They won as as a team and they will lose as a team. Plus let’s not pretend they were not on drugs…
USA did legitimately won the gold medal, Japan legitimately won the silver and Canada legitimately won the bronze. There is one team that did not legitimately win because their athlete(s) were not clean. Facts.
Great there is finally a judgement. Now can we please have an investigation into the much bigger problem of corrupt and incompetent judging?
Everyone's just like, FINALLY!
Thank you, Dave!
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THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU DAVE!!!!!
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Thank you for the conversation! As soon as I saw about this in my feed I went to see if you had anything on it thinking it was a little early but this was already here. 🙂
Can we have Maya come for a just ice dance episode???
Thank you for this, such a good discussion
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Dave should start his own sports agency/representation for gymnasts and figure skaters. Incredibly entrepreneurial and strategic advice for ice dancers at 47:00. ;)
But it's funny to consider Karen Chen an Olympic champion, seeing how she skated at the Olympic team games!
Despite the fact it took this long, I'm not surprised by the verdict at all.
Thank you for getting this out quickly!
Our pleasure!
Great podcast! I wouldn’t take that lie detector very seriously. There is a reason why they’re not admissible in court. The Behavior Panel talked about them recently, and how they are very unreliable.
I kinda want C/B to retire so that we can see the US ice dance field launch into a full blown competition for the top. They are all young teams that can be around for the next two Olympics.
Thanks for having Phil on!
So the adults have decided to punish a child - again. Do your homework on TMZ. The girl was not doped. I guess the lunatics at USADA finally got their way. Interesting, they let a weightlifter compete in a championship after busting that lifter for doping at the event to qualify for the championship. But here, with no evidence at all of doping, they have cried like babies to ban a Russian girl for four years. It's not surprising the UFC cut them loose.
No evidence of doping? Er... the drug was found in her system !
@@peteregan7864 Who let the drug get into her system? That is the question!
@@peteregan7864 The drug is not a PED.
Only psychopaths can think this girl was aware or even wanted to dope. The adults around her should be investigated as well the laboratory in Sweden, since the test results usually take 10 days and hers took around 2 months.
Also, stop blaming Valieva's doctor after he went through a lie detector test and came out clean.
She was aware she was taking something. She knew about anti-doping because she had to get tested at each event. If the adults are the ones at fault, she needs to come forward and say so.
@@skatefan9495 are you being paid for such stupidity or is your brain actually competing with what we flush when we use the toilet?
@@skatefan9495 you dont even realize what you are talking about
@@5012810 these people are delusional and only come here to spread their hate and frustration
@@skatefan9495What are the proof? Or you're just speculating?
Honestly, I feel like IOC and ISU have already made the plans but not officially. I feel like this upcoming meeting is more of a formality where they're going to say okay. Well this happened. This is what it was and so we'll go and do this thing that we already planned to do and we were already thinking of doing if this happened.
It's a political decision if we look at the panel of CAS, basically 2 American arbitrators vs 1 French. No one can believe that American arbitrators can make a fair decision against a Russian athlete.
I think Valieva and Russia were sabotaged so that they don't win the Team gold medal and they also fail at the individual event. It was fishy from day one how there was a delay in the Swedish lab and how the news came out during the Olympics, after the Team Event.
I feel sorry for Kamila, she never deserved how she was treated in the past two years. I hope she will continue skating and will have a long career as a pro, too, because she is an extremely talented skater.
If we look into the calendar is sounds like a sabotage. First of all how did the IOC let an athlete into the games with a pending doping test? How come it took 2 months for the lab to give the results? How come the results came right after they won the team competition? Too many coincidences.
It was all very suspicious. Especially that the results came right after the TE and the lab didn't give any results before the Games. @@TheEmmaSmith
Russia did not win anything. They cheated. Any reasonable panel would ban her and the filthy state who chosw to drug her and others. Russians should hate their own government for doing this.
@novakd1530 tell us about Simone Biles then
Marion Jones, Florence Griffith-Joyner, Lance Armstrong - are the names of these American dopers familiar to you? And who knows what made Phelps and Biles win dozens of Olympic gold medals too, to name just two names that were suspiciously successful US athletes in the past 1-2 decades.@novakd1530
She is going to be crucified in the comments for soft peddling this story and ignoring recent Russian doping. The water glass transfer is a ridiculous story.
A ridiculous story indeed. The cake one - even worse.
But it feels like they had to stick to a story that was made up in a hurry while in Beijing