EXACTLY what I was looking for. So many stupid PID tuning videos, so many filter explaination. But no one actually xplaining what to set in BF. Big thanks, this is sooo practical :)
Sweet video Chris!! 9:40 - one minor thing: -3db is 71% of the signal amplitude gets through. It is 50% of the signal power, but we are not interested in power. Power doesn't mean anything in this application. That was a common confusion even with some lead devs till about 3-yrs ago.
Good to know Mark. I just started plotting power spectral density in dB in Pid toolbox. Everywhere I’ve read the conversion to dB is 10*log10(power spec). I hope that’s correct
@@PIDtoolbox Should be fine because you are looking at the power spectrum, not amplitude spectrum. Problems only arise when comparing power to amplitude. You'd need to compensate for the square root (or the squaring, looking from the other way), so you'd need to multiply by 2, like UAV Tech pointed out. Power ~ Intensity^2
Gotcha, thx guys. Yes, there’s a amp^2 and multiply by 2 in there in a previous step so that’s good. I’ve compared it directly to various other Matlab build in functions and it gives the same result. I just like to compute it myself so I don’t need as many Matlab toolboxes to make it work. Nice to have confirmation.
This is excellent tutorial, going straight to the principles of why we turn off filters, and selecting dynamic / static type. I think what differentiate you the most is you're not overloading us with the act of tuning itself, but the fundamentals are explained in a concise manner
Finally, a tuning video that non geeks can understand. Been waiting for someone to make this video for a long time. Thank you for coming into fpv and making contributions
Using the waterfall prooved super essential to find my right filters. Thanks for explaining even a bit more on how these betaflight filters actually work. What I would find good: Could you show how it looks when your filters work properly? Like showing before-after waterfall graphs and also some gyro+pid graphs? I got the noise of my quad down significantly, but still have the feeling that the signal to the motors is kinda noisy and thus wasting a ton of energy. But a bit of noise in that motor-signal seems ok if I look at UAV tech logs? Hard to judge!
This video is GOLD. It's like a free high professional seminar in filter tuning. I'm watching it right now the second time and make even notes, like in class. So much knowledge. I love you man! Before your video I didn't know anything about filtering.
I know it's not much, but I really appreciate you taking the time, and explaining everything nicely. Also, as a salesman, I really appreciate that you did a proper presentation, it looks good and is way easier to follow, than thrown together text on top of someone talking with no ideas where the thought will lead to. 10/10 would watch again.
I really had a problem over the curse of now many years to fully understand betaflight. this video brought me so much closer to a fully understanding while saving so much time. also my quads fly much better now :)
Hey Chris, I have a Flylens 85 and I’m wondering if this is the right approach to take. A little nervous resetting everything to default in the pids. Looks like Flywoo has made a lot of changes already and I’ve her some people say it won’t fly without these changes. Can anyone chime in?
Simply wow! Suddenly all the magic about how to set your filters right is gone and I can finally understand what effects of which filters tame what kind of noise introduced by which problem! It all clicks together now and I finally feel confident enough to try and tune my quad without having the need of flying for years just to know what to "feel"! Thank you, Chris Rosser!
Thank you very much. By following your instructions my drone is now flying perfectly for about 15 minutes. Earlier it would start drifting after about 3 minutes and crash. Thanks.
That was extremely helpful. I could pick your brain for hours about filtering but this helped clear up a few things for me. My biggest sticking point has always been what to look for in the logs and how to react to it. So thank you
This is the content we have been needing on this subject! I know this area is convoluted and those in the past that have tried to explain this, glaze over too many of the steps. Thank you for giving us a proper foundation on filters!
Glad it was helpful! I wanted to go step by step through the whole process. The more experienced pilots can then just skip the stuff they already know!
Chris. THANK YOU for this. Finally an in-depth explanation on how to tune your quad instead of just saying "set this value to this and this one to that", which is what I've been mostly finding on the web. This feels like a proper lecture, and I say that in the most positive of ways. Not everything on RUclips has to always have the entertainment value. Thank you thank you! I am really looking forward to the next videos!
Hi, Chris. Thank you for explaining everything in simple words. I have a SourceOne V3 frame and I made a modification to it by putting rubber inserts between the arms and both bottom plates. The effect of rubber inserts is amazing and decreased noise singnificantly. Now I think its comparable to AOS5 raw noise. If you are interested, I can send you my log file. I made those rubber inserts out of my silicone rubber case for mobile phone. It's about 1mm thick.
Hi Chris, I did this with my catalyst machineworks shocker tank, I did to mine, that which I asked about yours below, ie tightening up the min and max for dynamic notch and D-term, leaving a 25hz margin either side. I also noticed that my motor noise only showed 2 harmonics within the band range on explorer so dropped to 2 accordingly. Also no gyro filters as gyro debugging showed nothing. I have to say, even with deliberately abused props with extra notches (small) & some tips cut off, it still flew fine, not even warm motors and totally clean charts for gyros. FANTASTIC m8, thank you so much. Cant wait for pid tuning, coming soon. Best wishes to you
I like your videos so much! You have a very nice academic style to present your topics. Speech and explanations are slow enough to be able to follow. Please have the time and energy to continue your videos!
Thank you Chris. I'm flying a hacked together LOS 3D quad that's pretty much a worst-case scenario in every possible way. Before following this video, my motors were boiling hot, untouchable, 70-80°C after a flight. Following your approach, they're now down to 40°C in regular freestyle LOS without reversing motors and down to 50°C in full on 3D flying.
Great as always. Like before, this was magic to me until now. I would ask that you make a companion video following this exact process for another frame/build, so we can see you carry it out and your thought process as you do so.
Fantastic work. I 100% agree with this logical approach and strategy. D term is the limiting factor and just randomly cranking it up to cope with frame resonances and motor noise just leads too disaster. Only really experienced pilots can get anywhere near a great tune by feel - I'm not one of them. A quantitative approach is the best way. Watching you and UAV Tech over the past few months has totally consolidated my existing knowledge and I can now fine tune with 100% success. One thing I'd add, just flying on default BF filter and pid settings and then analysing the data is perfect for 5 inch. But something , say with ducts and a poor frame build can fry motors extremely quickly. I always do a quick LOS shakedown flight in the garden for a minute and check temps for before heading out for the first proper tuning flight. If they're not stone cold something needs looking at.
This video is fantastic! Lays out filtering in a way that makes sense to me. 👍 Really appreciate all the effort people like you, Mark, and Joshua put into this content. Helps make the more arcane but important aspects of the hobby more accessible to people like me.
Amazing, I think I need to clean my build up just a bit, two suspect screws in particular. Im seeing that vertical stripe at 200hrz. I finally feel like blackbox is worth my time. Thanks for another top notch video.
Cheers for those Apex and Glide filter suggestions in your community tab, I just put a new build together with the Zeez F7 V2 FC and their 55a ESC and it was flying really poorly on stock, I used your filter suggestions and used UAVTech's PID tuning guide and now it's flying beautifully.
This is incredible. I was a bit afraid of doing it, but actually I have cooler motors compared to what I had when I had slider filter setting at 1.6. Go figure.... Oh and the quad flies amazing. Thank you very much!
Whhoooawww !! Thank you soo much for that video. That explains a lot of things I was not reaching to understand. And making the link between theory and concrete BF config. All that english wording may be easy for an english native, but not for others. Thanks soo much. That's one of the 10 videos most missing in our hobby.
Man you are an excellent teacher... I watched your video carefully and I finally understood how filters work and their applications, definitely. Thank you very much!!!
Chris, this video is VERY good! I think you're doing what I wish Bardwell was doing. I'm one of the guys that's been following Bardwell for some time and feel that his information has stagnated, you are taking it the next step, thank you! I've enjoyed your videos, but this time you have taken it to the next level! I'm repeating but it is well deserved. I'm really looking forward to the next video, I must say you've inspired me to start using blackbox!
I would love to have made this video but the truth is I just don't have enough grasp on the topic to put the information together like Chris has done. I'm really glad Chris is making this content and look forward to learning from it.
@@JoshuaBardwell Chris did a great job but I think you’re selling yourself short Joshua, didn’t you look at logs years ago? Don’t get me wrong, I’m on your discord for a reason, but I do miss being driven forward by new knowledge.
Thanks Chris, this is awesome. Finally after over a year in this hobbie, someone has explained filters to me in a way that i can understand and that makes sense. Now, hopefully, i can tune my filters and pids and get a good flying quad without smoking any more motors, or at least not as often. Thanks for coming aboard and helping us all out with your vast knowledge. Thanks so much.
@@ChrisRosser Hey Chris, i spent this weekend working on tuning my diatone taycan. Way better now but not quite dialed in yet. Had to remove the gopro to get it close. Kept going from bounce back to dterm oscilations in forward flight. The videos you have done are awesome but what woyld really help me and probably others would be an example of setting up filters and pids on a dirty build and with and without a gopro, cinewhoop and tuning for running 6s throttle limited on 4s. Just some ideas. I really appreciate what your doing. Thx
Why hasn't the community approached tuning like this years ago. This now makes complete sense to me. Before it was just voodoo and trying random things. Thank you, Chris!
Thank you for another great video, today I gathered bb data for all my quads and gonna bring some scientific touch to their tuning tomorrow. And impatiently waiting for next parts of this tutorial!
@@ChrisRosser yes! Also there’s opentx update has been released which improves tx latency with faster crossfire protocol, so now they supposed to fly at least twice better :)
Great job with this tutorial and explaining the core concepts. Also, really love the pointer used in this and a lot of your other videos. It is wholly underrated. Much better than just reading a static slide or having too many animations.
Thank you so much. You made it easy enough, and broke it down so that even I could understand. I'm a bit slow, so this one is going to be watched a few times. This is all extremely irritating to me right now, especially when I'm not sure if my FC is even any good. Troubleshooting as a beginner. 🙄😎🤘
Love your work Chris! Have watched multiple of your videos before with fascination, but until now, have never really understood exactly what has been going on. There must be so many others like me who have been greatly helped by this excellent presentation. Looking forward to the next instalment
Thanks so much! I’ve never understood tuning my quads and this is a great place to start. P.S. for anyone who doesn’t see a “dee bug” mode in Betaflight Explorer, open “graph setup” bottom right and then you can add it!
Dayym! This works, and I actually (well, kinda..) understand the process... Decided to give all my drones the Rosser-treatment and the first one out was my iflight Titan XL5 phatbooi porker. Ended up with some pretty aggressive filtering and now we are off to do the PID-tune :) This video deserves a lot more likes and attention 👍🏻👍🏻
This is amazing. With this video, I just massively improved the performance of my latest build, and I understand why I did what I did, and how I did it. THANK YOU SO MUCH. You've well earned my support on Patreon. Your one video did what 18 months of countless videos couldn't do. My quad is flying like I've never known before, and I still have the PIDs to tune! Hey, Chris, if you're looking for a video idea, I think it could be helpful to do a frame/build resonance analysis that measures and explores the negative impact/increased noise/resonance that can be caused by poor habits, bad practices, or mistakes made during the build process. ..kinda like the video you did about the antenna oscillation issue due to using a long antenna in soft antenna mount, but continue with more examples of common build problems that can cause excessive noise. This would help to illustrate exactly what you mean when you say someone needs to go back and fix/work on the problematic physical aspects of their build before proceeding with tuning. It could give people in this situation a clearer starting point. I think right now, many may not know where to start when they hear that they need to go back and fix things before attempting tuning. Hope that makes sense. Thanks again!
@@ChrisRosser Sweet! After watching more of your videos, you do well identifying some of the physical areas to look into, for improving baseline noise profile of a build. I still think it'd be fun, and helpful, to see some of them quantified but I just had another thought too... I believe it was in the vibe, and resonance analysis of 5" and 7" quads that you casually mentioned motor and prop balance is never perfect. I immediately thought/hoped you might segue into some info on folding props, as they are said to be self balancing. Though you didn't mention folding props, I realized I am desperate to know more about self balancing, and aero dynamic qualities, and general physical and performance qualities of folding props. More than my previous suggestion, I would love to see you take a deep dive on folding props. It is quite possible this topic could have broad appeal as well. Thanks so much for taking the time to reply to my first comment above. I know this isn't always possible, so thanks. And thank you as well for your comsiderstion of taking a deep dive on folding props. Cheers!
@@ChrisRosser no it does not. Help me understand what filtering does please. It filters out vibrations from the motors,frame and props so the gyro on the flight controller still feels them but compensates for the vibrations when you fly so your whole flight experience is smoother. Is that the goal? To not have prop wash and whatnot?
I've been looking for a video like this one since I started getting interested in tuning! Usually filter tutorials are "I recommend using these settings, after you get comfortable you can get them more tuned in", which is OK but doesn't explain why and how they got to those settings... And I leave with more questions than answers.
You talked about over tightening screws in step 1. Do you know the torque spec for the screws on a soft mounted motor? Soft mount is 1 mm thick tpu print. Should I be soft mounting at all? Does mounting directly to the arm give a more consistent and/or narrow frame resonance frequency? I want to torque the motors to the same spec so they all vibrate at the same frequency in as narrow a band as possible. So soft mount or not and what torque gets me the most narrow consistent resonance frequency? Please keep making videos like this!!!!
Absolute home run. Been out of the game a couple years and this is just what I need to get back up to speed. Modern firmware is so good I honestly haven't been bothered. About all that's left is the last bit of propwash which I may now take a shot at. Thank you, subscribed!
mate! can you try to make an example with some more aggressive propellers? i found myself pretty clear with smooth props (5'', tri-blades, low pitch) but when i switch to bi-blades high pitch the waterfall plot shows a totally different story. ...I understand, as you said, tune with the prop you normally use but for a specific setup (chasing cars or long range) i would like to use more specific props and it definitely needs different approach. Thanks for explain everything so clear! Cheers!
I've very excited to go and try this out. I just build my first 5" last month and have been flying every day. I've noticed some points of my flight where I could use some better filtering but I've been worried about adjusting because I haven't had a good enough explanation specific to the filters. Thanks. :)
Hey Chris, would it be possible to program BF to just enter in the noise frequencies from BBE and just have it set the appropriate filter settings auto set? Seems to be a better solution for the end user.
Very practical and intuitive! Thanks a lot @ Chris Rosser. I did learn a whole lot that I couldn't from others. Hopefully, I can get my quad to have a better performance.
Wow great vid mate. I've got back into flying after 2 years only got as far as timing to the end of this vid and I feel like I have loads more control already. Cant wait till I have time to do the pids aswell. Keep up the good work 👍
Thankyou... finally getting a grip of this thanks to your vid. Got half my fleet flying great! Is there any variation of the process when tuning a dual gyro fc? Many thanks😁
Hey Chris, Great video. When checking the mechanicals how secure do you need to make the flightstack? Can the stack have very slight side to side forward and back movement as well as some some slight compression with the gummies when you press your flight controller up-and-down? I have a super solid stack and none of those characteristics, so I'm wondering if my stack may be too tight or too snug and not allowing things to have a slight dampening for the gyro.
What about horizontal banding? After applying your tuning guidelines, especially on pitch, I've got a band across the waterfall graph at ~ 55% throttle, flat as a board. It wasn't there on base tune. There are faint ones at 62%, 21% and down around 8 - 10%, On roll, there's one that reaches from 0 hz out to about 600hz at around 35% and a couple more faint ones elsewhere but the 55% pitch line shoots all the way across to 10k. That being said, it flies great as it sits now. Can't wait to see your PID tuning video.
Thank you so much for the best filter tune video I have seen. I understood about 60% of what you were talking about, instead of 5% from all the previous videos I have seen. The help you give people like me that do not have this kind of knowledge is fantastic. I have to ask you a quick question. What pidloop frequency do you run with rpm filtering? Everyone seem to use 4khz and dshot 300. I have an F7 board and run 8khz and dshot 600. Is that wrong? What do you use?
Exactly. What you are doing has been long awaited in this hobby. Seemingly unreachable knowledge, to many of us, put into easy to understand terms. Awesome 🙂🙂
Hello Chris, thank you for the explanation! Unfortunately im not sure if i do it correctly. Should i start with the betaflight standard filtersettings and PID Settings or with your recommended settings? I checked my 5” quad and it should be well build. Unfortunately the blackbox data are really worse. Thank you and i hope to get an answer from you
Hey Chris, this video is absolutely brilliant. I do have a few follow-up questions which might be too long to answer here, but I'll ask anyways. Your suggested tune is for a "Clean" build, but my builds are rarely that. How would you change things for something a bit more beaten up? In particular I am often using props with nicks and gouges. Would RPM filtering still take care of that, or are your minimalistic D-Term filters likely to allow excessive noise/motor heat/flyaways? It would be great to have rules of thumb about these variables as build cleanliness and quad size go up and down. I'm really looking forward to part 2 about PIDs. Thanks!!
Hi Oliver, you could try my filter recommendations and if they are too aggressive try reducing the D term filter cut-off to 90 or even 80Hz. Thanks! Chris
All great tips.. thank you.. i think one quad issue was battery strap pushing wires so they'd touch gyro. Since then and working on gyro filters in inav I've got it flying better
aaaaah the procedural approach without "I feel like I should add a bit of that and remove of bit of this" I have always been looking for!
I know. Once you reduce filter tuning to a science I find it so much easier to understand!
Couldn't agree more!
me too! nice tutorial indeed!
This actually made complete sense to me. Time to tuneeeeeee
EXACTLY what I was looking for. So many stupid PID tuning videos, so many filter explaination. But no one actually xplaining what to set in BF. Big thanks, this is sooo practical :)
So glad to hear that. Hope it helps!
My thanks, I'm getting back into quads after a few years off. This brought tuning back into focus with little fuss.
Welcome back! Hope that your quad files great following the tuning.
Sweet video Chris!!
9:40 - one minor thing: -3db is 71% of the signal amplitude gets through. It is 50% of the signal power, but we are not interested in power. Power doesn't mean anything in this application. That was a common confusion even with some lead devs till about 3-yrs ago.
Thanks for the correction! I knew there would be something I got wrong somewhere. I'll stick a card in the video.
Good to know Mark. I just started plotting power spectral density in dB in Pid toolbox. Everywhere I’ve read the conversion to dB is 10*log10(power spec). I hope that’s correct
@@PIDtoolbox 20 x LOG10(amplitude)
@@PIDtoolbox Should be fine because you are looking at the power spectrum, not amplitude spectrum. Problems only arise when comparing power to amplitude. You'd need to compensate for the square root (or the squaring, looking from the other way), so you'd need to multiply by 2, like UAV Tech pointed out.
Power ~ Intensity^2
Gotcha, thx guys. Yes, there’s a amp^2 and multiply by 2 in there in a previous step so that’s good. I’ve compared it directly to various other Matlab build in functions and it gives the same result. I just like to compute it myself so I don’t need as many Matlab toolboxes to make it work. Nice to have confirmation.
I like the fact that you stay on topic with your videos unlike so many others that will jump all over the place.
I salute...
This is excellent tutorial, going straight to the principles of why we turn off filters, and selecting dynamic / static type. I think what differentiate you the most is you're not overloading us with the act of tuning itself, but the fundamentals are explained in a concise manner
That was the goal. I'm glad I managed it!
Wow! Been in the hobby for a long time! Never seen a Betaflight Filtering video this well explained. Great Job Mate! Awesome Work!
Thanks a lot!
I'm really into the engineering side of FPV flying and these videos are liquid gold
Finally, a tuning video that non geeks can understand. Been waiting for someone to make this video for a long time. Thank you for coming into fpv and making contributions
Glad you liked it!
Using the waterfall prooved super essential to find my right filters. Thanks for explaining even a bit more on how these betaflight filters actually work. What I would find good: Could you show how it looks when your filters work properly? Like showing before-after waterfall graphs and also some gyro+pid graphs? I got the noise of my quad down significantly, but still have the feeling that the signal to the motors is kinda noisy and thus wasting a ton of energy. But a bit of noise in that motor-signal seems ok if I look at UAV tech logs? Hard to judge!
This video is GOLD. It's like a free high professional seminar in filter tuning. I'm watching it right now the second time and make even notes, like in class. So much knowledge. I love you man! Before your video I didn't know anything about filtering.
Wow, thanks! So glad that you found it useful. I hope that it makes your quads fly better than ever before.
You're a gift to the hobby. Very well explained. I looked forward to your tuning video. Cheers
Thank you kindly! It's nearly ready.
I know it's not much, but I really appreciate you taking the time, and explaining everything nicely. Also, as a salesman, I really appreciate that you did a proper presentation, it looks good and is way easier to follow, than thrown together text on top of someone talking with no ideas where the thought will lead to.
10/10 would watch again.
I appreciate that! Thanks for your kind comment.
Brilliant! The light has come on,and now illuminating brightly!
I love that Aha! Moment. I hope you get your quads flying better than ever.
I really had a problem over the curse of now many years to fully understand betaflight. this video brought me so much closer to a fully understanding while saving so much time. also my quads fly much better now :)
This subject was a total mystery for me until I watched this video. The clearest and best explanation of how the filters work I've every seen.
That's what I was going for great to hear! 😁
Thank you Chris! This is the best video explaining Betaflight filters I've ever seen! This is going to help a lot of people.
Awesome, thank you! I tried to keep it clear and simple but still provide lots of detail.
Hey Chris, I have a Flylens 85 and I’m wondering if this is the right approach to take. A little nervous resetting everything to default in the pids. Looks like Flywoo has made a lot of changes already and I’ve her some people say it won’t fly without these changes. Can anyone chime in?
Simply wow! Suddenly all the magic about how to set your filters right is gone and I can finally understand what effects of which filters tame what kind of noise introduced by which problem! It all clicks together now and I finally feel confident enough to try and tune my quad without having the need of flying for years just to know what to "feel"!
Thank you, Chris Rosser!
Thank you very much. By following your instructions my drone is now flying perfectly for about 15 minutes. Earlier it would start drifting after about 3 minutes and crash. Thanks.
That was extremely helpful. I could pick your brain for hours about filtering but this helped clear up a few things for me. My biggest sticking point has always been what to look for in the logs and how to react to it. So thank you
Glad the video helped unstick you! 😁
This is the content we have been needing on this subject! I know this area is convoluted and those in the past that have tried to explain this, glaze over too many of the steps. Thank you for giving us a proper foundation on filters!
Glad it was helpful! I wanted to go step by step through the whole process. The more experienced pilots can then just skip the stuff they already know!
Chris. THANK YOU for this. Finally an in-depth explanation on how to tune your quad instead of just saying "set this value to this and this one to that", which is what I've been mostly finding on the web. This feels like a proper lecture, and I say that in the most positive of ways. Not everything on RUclips has to always have the entertainment value. Thank you thank you! I am really looking forward to the next videos!
I crammed as much entertainment value into the thumbnail as possible! Thanks for your support.
@@ChrisRosser and it's a glorious thumbnail! 😁
Best explanation I have ever seen , you explain the concepts so easy than now its time to use them thanks
his explanation of how to tune the kwad its the best so far and u made easy for us to understand it thank u
Hi, Chris. Thank you for explaining everything in simple words. I have a SourceOne V3 frame and I made a modification to it by putting rubber inserts between the arms and both bottom plates. The effect of rubber inserts is amazing and decreased noise singnificantly. Now I think its comparable to AOS5 raw noise. If you are interested, I can send you my log file. I made those rubber inserts out of my silicone rubber case for mobile phone. It's about 1mm thick.
Nice work! I'm not surprised the rubber helped reduce vibrations but its great to hear that your quad is flying better than ever!
Big brain idea: Print it in TPU ;)
@@marcel.schulz I’m afraid tpu is too rigid for dumping vibrations. ...but please try an let us know;)
Hi Chris, I did this with my catalyst machineworks shocker tank, I did to mine, that which I asked about yours below, ie tightening up the min and max for dynamic notch and D-term, leaving a 25hz margin either side. I also noticed that my motor noise only showed 2 harmonics within the band range on explorer so dropped to 2 accordingly. Also no gyro filters as gyro debugging showed nothing. I have to say, even with deliberately abused props with extra notches (small) & some tips cut off, it still flew fine, not even warm motors and totally clean charts for gyros. FANTASTIC m8, thank you so much. Cant wait for pid tuning, coming soon. Best wishes to you
I like your videos so much! You have a very nice academic style to present your topics. Speech and explanations are slow enough to be able to follow. Please have the time and energy to continue your videos!
Thank you! 😃
Thank you Chris. I'm flying a hacked together LOS 3D quad that's pretty much a worst-case scenario in every possible way. Before following this video, my motors were boiling hot, untouchable, 70-80°C after a flight. Following your approach, they're now down to 40°C in regular freestyle LOS without reversing motors and down to 50°C in full on 3D flying.
Happy to be able to help!
Great as always. Like before, this was magic to me until now. I would ask that you make a companion video following this exact process for another frame/build, so we can see you carry it out and your thought process as you do so.
Check out my review of the QAV-S which shows me going through this process on that frame!
Fantastic work. I 100% agree with this logical approach and strategy. D term is the limiting factor and just randomly cranking it up to cope with frame resonances and motor noise just leads too disaster. Only really experienced pilots can get anywhere near a great tune by feel - I'm not one of them. A quantitative approach is the best way. Watching you and UAV Tech over the past few months has totally consolidated my existing knowledge and I can now fine tune with 100% success. One thing I'd add, just flying on default BF filter and pid settings and then analysing the data is perfect for 5 inch. But something , say with ducts and a poor frame build can fry motors extremely quickly. I always do a quick LOS shakedown flight in the garden for a minute and check temps for before heading out for the first proper tuning flight. If they're not stone cold something needs looking at.
This video is fantastic! Lays out filtering in a way that makes sense to me. 👍 Really appreciate all the effort people like you, Mark, and Joshua put into this content. Helps make the more arcane but important aspects of the hobby more accessible to people like me.
Thanks Chris... learning loads. At last somebody that explains things clearly and doesn,t waste time by blowing wind up their own arse.
Amazing, I think I need to clean my build up just a bit, two suspect screws in particular. Im seeing that vertical stripe at 200hrz. I finally feel like blackbox is worth my time. Thanks for another top notch video.
Cheers for those Apex and Glide filter suggestions in your community tab, I just put a new build together with the Zeez F7 V2 FC and their 55a ESC and it was flying really poorly on stock, I used your filter suggestions and used UAVTech's PID tuning guide and now it's flying beautifully.
Awesome! Glad the filter suggestions helped 👍
This is incredible. I was a bit afraid of doing it, but actually I have cooler motors compared to what I had when I had slider filter setting at 1.6. Go figure....
Oh and the quad flies amazing.
Thank you very much!
Glad it helped!
Whhoooawww !! Thank you soo much for that video. That explains a lot of things I was not reaching to understand. And making the link between theory and concrete BF config. All that english wording may be easy for an english native, but not for others. Thanks soo much. That's one of the 10 videos most missing in our hobby.
Glad it was helpful!
YES please!! This looks like an awesome Tuning series. Thank you
PID tuning video is nearly done. Hold on to your hats 😁
Man you are an excellent teacher... I watched your video carefully and I finally understood how filters work and their applications, definitely. Thank you very much!!!
Great content, Chris. You have a talent for teaching, I am very much looking forward to the rest of the series.
A clear explanation, with animations as support to make it extra clear, what more could you want!
Chris, this video is VERY good! I think you're doing what I wish Bardwell was doing. I'm one of the guys that's been following Bardwell for some time and feel that his information has stagnated, you are taking it the next step, thank you! I've enjoyed your videos, but this time you have taken it to the next level! I'm repeating but it is well deserved. I'm really looking forward to the next video, I must say you've inspired me to start using blackbox!
I would love to have made this video but the truth is I just don't have enough grasp on the topic to put the information together like Chris has done. I'm really glad Chris is making this content and look forward to learning from it.
@@JoshuaBardwell Chris did a great job but I think you’re selling yourself short Joshua, didn’t you look at logs years ago? Don’t get me wrong, I’m on your discord for a reason, but I do miss being driven forward by new knowledge.
Finally a great explanation of what are those numbers. Thanks Chris!
Glad it was helpful!
Thanks Chris, this is awesome. Finally after over a year in this hobbie, someone has explained filters to me in a way that i can understand and that makes sense. Now, hopefully, i can tune my filters and pids and get a good flying quad without smoking any more motors, or at least not as often. Thanks for coming aboard and helping us all out with your vast knowledge. Thanks so much.
Thanks Kevin! I hope this helps you get your filters dialed in and your quad flying better than ever.
@@ChrisRosser Hey Chris, i spent this weekend working on tuning my diatone taycan. Way better now but not quite dialed in yet. Had to remove the gopro to get it close. Kept going from bounce back to dterm oscilations in forward flight. The videos you have done are awesome but what woyld really help me and probably others would be an example of setting up filters and pids on a dirty build and with and without a gopro, cinewhoop and tuning for running 6s throttle limited on 4s. Just some ideas. I really appreciate what your doing. Thx
Thanks for this methodic approach. Really looking forward to watch some tuning episodes based with this same approach.
More to come on PID tuning!
Honestly, this is a gem. Thank you so much for passing on the knowledge. Greetings from France.
My pleasure! PIDs up next.
I can't believe how much better this made my quad fly!
Why hasn't the community approached tuning like this years ago. This now makes complete sense to me. Before it was just voodoo and trying random things. Thank you, Chris!
Thank you for another great video, today I gathered bb data for all my quads and gonna bring some scientific touch to their tuning tomorrow. And impatiently waiting for next parts of this tutorial!
Sounds great! Hope that you get your quad flying better than ever.
@@ChrisRosser yes! Also there’s opentx update has been released which improves tx latency with faster crossfire protocol, so now they supposed to fly at least twice better :)
Great job with this tutorial and explaining the core concepts. Also, really love the pointer used in this and a lot of your other videos. It is wholly underrated. Much better than just reading a static slide or having too many animations.
Thank you so much. You made it easy enough, and broke it down so that even I could understand. I'm a bit slow, so this one is going to be watched a few times. This is all extremely irritating to me right now, especially when I'm not sure if my FC is even any good. Troubleshooting as a beginner. 🙄😎🤘
Part two please ;) This was very good. Thank you for taking the time to do this.
Love your work Chris! Have watched multiple of your videos before with fascination, but until now, have never really understood exactly what has been going on. There must be so many others like me who have been greatly helped by this excellent presentation. Looking forward to the next instalment
Oh, and a question. If I don’t see RPM filtering as an option, presume it’s because it ISN’T an option with my flight controller? (GEPRC F722)
It probably means you don't have bidirectional D shot set up and enabled correctly. There are videos to walk you through it on JBs channel.
Thanks so much! I’ve never understood tuning my quads and this is a great place to start.
P.S. for anyone who doesn’t see a “dee bug” mode in Betaflight Explorer, open “graph setup” bottom right and then you can add it!
Glad it helped! Thanks for your support.
thank you for making a clear, explained and full how to about tuning
Glad it was helpful!
Great video Chris. What filter settings would you use for a 3" quad (BF4.2)?
This is freaking awesome explanation of filtering, thank you Chris
Glad it was helpful!
Thank you ! This is the absolute best betaflight filter tutorial ever. Awesome job, very well explained !
Glad you enjoyed it!
Thanks Chris. Nailed the data and explanation as always. Amazing content. Stay well and safe.
Thanks Clare. Happy flying and take care!
Dayym! This works, and I actually (well, kinda..) understand the process... Decided to give all my drones the Rosser-treatment and the first one out was my iflight Titan XL5 phatbooi porker. Ended up with some pretty aggressive filtering and now we are off to do the PID-tune :)
This video deserves a lot more likes and attention 👍🏻👍🏻
Awesome work as always Chris
Looking forward for the next filtering video from you!
Coming soon!
Excellent explanation, ty so much. Can't wait for PID tuning part from you.
Coming soon!
CHOCK full of amazing info for tuning ! thank you so much for making this
My pleasure!
This is amazing. With this video, I just massively improved the performance of my latest build, and I understand why I did what I did, and how I did it. THANK YOU SO MUCH. You've well earned my support on Patreon. Your one video did what 18 months of countless videos couldn't do. My quad is flying like I've never known before, and I still have the PIDs to tune!
Hey, Chris, if you're looking for a video idea, I think it could be helpful to do a frame/build resonance analysis that measures and explores the negative impact/increased noise/resonance that can be caused by poor habits, bad practices, or mistakes made during the build process. ..kinda like the video you did about the antenna oscillation issue due to using a long antenna in soft antenna mount, but continue with more examples of common build problems that can cause excessive noise. This would help to illustrate exactly what you mean when you say someone needs to go back and fix/work on the problematic physical aspects of their build before proceeding with tuning. It could give people in this situation a clearer starting point. I think right now, many may not know where to start when they hear that they need to go back and fix things before attempting tuning. Hope that makes sense. Thanks again!
Thanks for your support. I've added your suggestion to my list!
@@ChrisRosser Sweet! After watching more of your videos, you do well identifying some of the physical areas to look into, for improving baseline noise profile of a build. I still think it'd be fun, and helpful, to see some of them quantified but I just had another thought too...
I believe it was in the vibe, and resonance analysis of 5" and 7" quads that you casually mentioned motor and prop balance is never perfect. I immediately thought/hoped you might segue into some info on folding props, as they are said to be self balancing. Though you didn't mention folding props, I realized I am desperate to know more about self balancing, and aero dynamic qualities, and general physical and performance qualities of folding props. More than my previous suggestion, I would love to see you take a deep dive on folding props. It is quite possible this topic could have broad appeal as well.
Thanks so much for taking the time to reply to my first comment above. I know this isn't always possible, so thanks. And thank you as well for your comsiderstion of taking a deep dive on folding props. Cheers!
Thanks , I’ve watched alot of bf tuning vids and I feel like yours gave me the best understanding of the filters.
Wow, that's a lot, just trying to wrap my head around the basics so I appreciate this video it's the first of its kind that I've ever seen
Thanks I hope it helps you with your tuning!
@@ChrisRosser no it does not. Help me understand what filtering does please. It filters out vibrations from the motors,frame and props so the gyro on the flight controller still feels them but compensates for the vibrations when you fly so your whole flight experience is smoother. Is that the goal? To not have prop wash and whatnot?
Thanks Chris - bringing together a lot of my old studies. Great work!
My pleasure! Thanks for your support.
I've been looking for a video like this one since I started getting interested in tuning! Usually filter tutorials are "I recommend using these settings, after you get comfortable you can get them more tuned in", which is OK but doesn't explain why and how they got to those settings... And I leave with more questions than answers.
Glad it was helpful!
Awesome approach to Tuning, Fact Based, easy to understand. Big Thumbs up for sharing and looking for further Tuning!
Much appreciated!
You talked about over tightening screws in step 1. Do you know the torque spec for the screws on a soft mounted motor? Soft mount is 1 mm thick tpu print.
Should I be soft mounting at all? Does mounting directly to the arm give a more consistent and/or narrow frame resonance frequency? I want to torque the motors to the same spec so they all vibrate at the same frequency in as narrow a band as possible. So soft mount or not and what torque gets me the most narrow consistent resonance frequency? Please keep making videos like this!!!!
Absolute home run. Been out of the game a couple years and this is just what I need to get back up to speed. Modern firmware is so good I honestly haven't been bothered. About all that's left is the last bit of propwash which I may now take a shot at. Thank you, subscribed!
Thanks for the sub!
Hi Chris, this is an amazing job you have done here. Thank you sooo much !
I have never turned so many things off and been so 😊, Thanks for ALL your videos!
ProTek35 ELRS 2.4 500HZ
Great to hear!
Why this video have no ads, all other garbage have alot of ads, quality videos like this deserves monitization
I don't want to cover the video in ads. I'd much rather people enjoy the video than the ads!
@@ChrisRosser Very nice of you. Great video
mate! can you try to make an example with some more aggressive propellers? i found myself pretty clear with smooth props (5'', tri-blades, low pitch) but when i switch to bi-blades high pitch the waterfall plot shows a totally different story. ...I understand, as you said, tune with the prop you normally use but for a specific setup (chasing cars or long range) i would like to use more specific props and it definitely needs different approach. Thanks for explain everything so clear! Cheers!
I've very excited to go and try this out. I just build my first 5" last month and have been flying every day. I've noticed some points of my flight where I could use some better filtering but I've been worried about adjusting because I haven't had a good enough explanation specific to the filters. Thanks. :)
Hey Chris, would it be possible to program BF to just enter in the noise frequencies from BBE and just have it set the appropriate filter settings auto set? Seems to be a better solution for the end user.
This was very well put together in my opinion
Excellent, informative, very well put together video. Love your channel, thank you!
Very practical and intuitive! Thanks a lot @
Chris Rosser. I did learn a whole lot that I couldn't from others. Hopefully, I can get my quad to have a better performance.
Glad it was helpful!
Wow great vid mate. I've got back into flying after 2 years only got as far as timing to the end of this vid and I feel like I have loads more control already.
Cant wait till I have time to do the pids aswell.
Keep up the good work 👍
I needed this. Thanks for everything you do, you are one of the greats. 👍
Happy to help!
Awesome. This is a very clear, simple explanation.
Thankyou... finally getting a grip of this thanks to your vid. Got half my fleet flying great!
Is there any variation of the process when tuning a dual gyro fc?
Many thanks😁
I just wanna give a super genuine thanks for this. 🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏
Hey Chris,
Great video.
When checking the mechanicals how secure do you need to make the flightstack?
Can the stack have very slight side to side forward and back movement as well as some some slight compression with the gummies when you press your flight controller up-and-down?
I have a super solid stack and none of those characteristics, so I'm wondering if my stack may be too tight or too snug and not allowing things to have a slight dampening for the gyro.
Yes a small amount of movement on the gummies is OK.
as usual great video! Thanks so much for a straightforward explanation of filters in BF.
My pleasure!
What a great video this was! Learnt a lot about filters today, awesome work!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Wow! This was so great and easy to understand. Thank you Chris.
You are welcome!
What about horizontal banding? After applying your tuning guidelines, especially on pitch, I've got a band across the waterfall graph at ~ 55% throttle, flat as a board. It wasn't there on base tune. There are faint ones at 62%, 21% and down around 8 - 10%, On roll, there's one that reaches from 0 hz out to about 600hz at around 35% and a couple more faint ones elsewhere but the 55% pitch line shoots all the way across to 10k. That being said, it flies great as it sits now. Can't wait to see your PID tuning video.
A flat band at a certain throttle position could be aerodynamic or electrical noise. I wouldn't worry too much if the quad is flying nice!
Thank you chris your tutorial was
excellent going follow up with your next video on pid tuning.
Thank you so much for the best filter tune video I have seen. I understood about 60% of what you were talking about, instead of 5% from all the previous videos I have seen.
The help you give people like me that do not have this kind of knowledge is fantastic.
I have to ask you a quick question. What pidloop frequency do you run with rpm filtering?
Everyone seem to use 4khz and dshot 300. I have an F7 board and run 8khz and dshot 600. Is that wrong? What do you use?
If you have an F7 or H7 8k and Dshot600 is best. If you have an F4 4kHz and Dshot 300 is best. 👍
thankyou, you are a great explainer, super detailed and easy to understand.
You're very welcome!
@@ChrisRosser i'm following the entire saga in this moment... May i ask you if this is also applyable to emuflight / kiss / flightone?
Thanks.
@@fefpv5001 Yes.The tuning method should work for any firmware provided it has the relevant tools.
great videos .. great detail explanation. does this also work for 2,5 or 3'' cinewhoops or better go with dynamic LP filters?
Yes it does, you can use this process for all quads 7" and smaller.
I love this channel. Excellent information and advice in easy to understand format. Superb 🙂
You just summed up everything I am trying to do!
Exactly. What you are doing has been long awaited in this hobby. Seemingly unreachable knowledge, to many of us, put into easy to understand terms. Awesome 🙂🙂
Hello Chris, thank you for the explanation! Unfortunately im not sure if i do it correctly. Should i start with the betaflight standard filtersettings and PID Settings or with your recommended settings? I checked my 5” quad and it should be well build. Unfortunately the blackbox data are really worse. Thank you and i hope to get an answer from you
Hey Chris, this video is absolutely brilliant. I do have a few follow-up questions which might be too long to answer here, but I'll ask anyways. Your suggested tune is for a "Clean" build, but my builds are rarely that. How would you change things for something a bit more beaten up? In particular I am often using props with nicks and gouges. Would RPM filtering still take care of that, or are your minimalistic D-Term filters likely to allow excessive noise/motor heat/flyaways? It would be great to have rules of thumb about these variables as build cleanliness and quad size go up and down. I'm really looking forward to part 2 about PIDs. Thanks!!
Hi Oliver, you could try my filter recommendations and if they are too aggressive try reducing the D term filter cut-off to 90 or even 80Hz. Thanks! Chris
the best tutorial ive whatched!
great video!
All great tips.. thank you.. i think one quad issue was battery strap pushing wires so they'd touch gyro. Since then and working on gyro filters in inav I've got it flying better
Glad it helped.
Beautiful job and explanation, Chris. Very grateful for the time you've spent on putting this together for us. Subscribed.
Thanks for the sub! Every subscriber really helps me reach more pilots and engage effectively with the industry.