EXACTLY what I was looking for. So many stupid PID tuning videos, so many filter explaination. But no one actually xplaining what to set in BF. Big thanks, this is sooo practical :)
Sweet video Chris!! 9:40 - one minor thing: -3db is 71% of the signal amplitude gets through. It is 50% of the signal power, but we are not interested in power. Power doesn't mean anything in this application. That was a common confusion even with some lead devs till about 3-yrs ago.
Good to know Mark. I just started plotting power spectral density in dB in Pid toolbox. Everywhere I’ve read the conversion to dB is 10*log10(power spec). I hope that’s correct
@@PIDtoolbox Should be fine because you are looking at the power spectrum, not amplitude spectrum. Problems only arise when comparing power to amplitude. You'd need to compensate for the square root (or the squaring, looking from the other way), so you'd need to multiply by 2, like UAV Tech pointed out. Power ~ Intensity^2
Gotcha, thx guys. Yes, there’s a amp^2 and multiply by 2 in there in a previous step so that’s good. I’ve compared it directly to various other Matlab build in functions and it gives the same result. I just like to compute it myself so I don’t need as many Matlab toolboxes to make it work. Nice to have confirmation.
Finally, a tuning video that non geeks can understand. Been waiting for someone to make this video for a long time. Thank you for coming into fpv and making contributions
I know it's not much, but I really appreciate you taking the time, and explaining everything nicely. Also, as a salesman, I really appreciate that you did a proper presentation, it looks good and is way easier to follow, than thrown together text on top of someone talking with no ideas where the thought will lead to. 10/10 would watch again.
This is excellent tutorial, going straight to the principles of why we turn off filters, and selecting dynamic / static type. I think what differentiate you the most is you're not overloading us with the act of tuning itself, but the fundamentals are explained in a concise manner
This video is GOLD. It's like a free high professional seminar in filter tuning. I'm watching it right now the second time and make even notes, like in class. So much knowledge. I love you man! Before your video I didn't know anything about filtering.
Whhoooawww !! Thank you soo much for that video. That explains a lot of things I was not reaching to understand. And making the link between theory and concrete BF config. All that english wording may be easy for an english native, but not for others. Thanks soo much. That's one of the 10 videos most missing in our hobby.
Thank you very much. By following your instructions my drone is now flying perfectly for about 15 minutes. Earlier it would start drifting after about 3 minutes and crash. Thanks.
I really had a problem over the curse of now many years to fully understand betaflight. this video brought me so much closer to a fully understanding while saving so much time. also my quads fly much better now :)
Using the waterfall prooved super essential to find my right filters. Thanks for explaining even a bit more on how these betaflight filters actually work. What I would find good: Could you show how it looks when your filters work properly? Like showing before-after waterfall graphs and also some gyro+pid graphs? I got the noise of my quad down significantly, but still have the feeling that the signal to the motors is kinda noisy and thus wasting a ton of energy. But a bit of noise in that motor-signal seems ok if I look at UAV tech logs? Hard to judge!
Chris. THANK YOU for this. Finally an in-depth explanation on how to tune your quad instead of just saying "set this value to this and this one to that", which is what I've been mostly finding on the web. This feels like a proper lecture, and I say that in the most positive of ways. Not everything on RUclips has to always have the entertainment value. Thank you thank you! I am really looking forward to the next videos!
Hi, Chris. Thank you for explaining everything in simple words. I have a SourceOne V3 frame and I made a modification to it by putting rubber inserts between the arms and both bottom plates. The effect of rubber inserts is amazing and decreased noise singnificantly. Now I think its comparable to AOS5 raw noise. If you are interested, I can send you my log file. I made those rubber inserts out of my silicone rubber case for mobile phone. It's about 1mm thick.
Hey Chris, I have a Flylens 85 and I’m wondering if this is the right approach to take. A little nervous resetting everything to default in the pids. Looks like Flywoo has made a lot of changes already and I’ve her some people say it won’t fly without these changes. Can anyone chime in?
Thank you Chris. I'm flying a hacked together LOS 3D quad that's pretty much a worst-case scenario in every possible way. Before following this video, my motors were boiling hot, untouchable, 70-80°C after a flight. Following your approach, they're now down to 40°C in regular freestyle LOS without reversing motors and down to 50°C in full on 3D flying.
Amazing, I think I need to clean my build up just a bit, two suspect screws in particular. Im seeing that vertical stripe at 200hrz. I finally feel like blackbox is worth my time. Thanks for another top notch video.
Hi Chris, I did this with my catalyst machineworks shocker tank, I did to mine, that which I asked about yours below, ie tightening up the min and max for dynamic notch and D-term, leaving a 25hz margin either side. I also noticed that my motor noise only showed 2 harmonics within the band range on explorer so dropped to 2 accordingly. Also no gyro filters as gyro debugging showed nothing. I have to say, even with deliberately abused props with extra notches (small) & some tips cut off, it still flew fine, not even warm motors and totally clean charts for gyros. FANTASTIC m8, thank you so much. Cant wait for pid tuning, coming soon. Best wishes to you
Thanks Chris, this is awesome. Finally after over a year in this hobbie, someone has explained filters to me in a way that i can understand and that makes sense. Now, hopefully, i can tune my filters and pids and get a good flying quad without smoking any more motors, or at least not as often. Thanks for coming aboard and helping us all out with your vast knowledge. Thanks so much.
@@ChrisRosser Hey Chris, i spent this weekend working on tuning my diatone taycan. Way better now but not quite dialed in yet. Had to remove the gopro to get it close. Kept going from bounce back to dterm oscilations in forward flight. The videos you have done are awesome but what woyld really help me and probably others would be an example of setting up filters and pids on a dirty build and with and without a gopro, cinewhoop and tuning for running 6s throttle limited on 4s. Just some ideas. I really appreciate what your doing. Thx
That was extremely helpful. I could pick your brain for hours about filtering but this helped clear up a few things for me. My biggest sticking point has always been what to look for in the logs and how to react to it. So thank you
This is the content we have been needing on this subject! I know this area is convoluted and those in the past that have tried to explain this, glaze over too many of the steps. Thank you for giving us a proper foundation on filters!
Glad it was helpful! I wanted to go step by step through the whole process. The more experienced pilots can then just skip the stuff they already know!
This is incredible. I was a bit afraid of doing it, but actually I have cooler motors compared to what I had when I had slider filter setting at 1.6. Go figure.... Oh and the quad flies amazing. Thank you very much!
Chris, this video is VERY good! I think you're doing what I wish Bardwell was doing. I'm one of the guys that's been following Bardwell for some time and feel that his information has stagnated, you are taking it the next step, thank you! I've enjoyed your videos, but this time you have taken it to the next level! I'm repeating but it is well deserved. I'm really looking forward to the next video, I must say you've inspired me to start using blackbox!
I would love to have made this video but the truth is I just don't have enough grasp on the topic to put the information together like Chris has done. I'm really glad Chris is making this content and look forward to learning from it.
@@JoshuaBardwell Chris did a great job but I think you’re selling yourself short Joshua, didn’t you look at logs years ago? Don’t get me wrong, I’m on your discord for a reason, but I do miss being driven forward by new knowledge.
Simply wow! Suddenly all the magic about how to set your filters right is gone and I can finally understand what effects of which filters tame what kind of noise introduced by which problem! It all clicks together now and I finally feel confident enough to try and tune my quad without having the need of flying for years just to know what to "feel"! Thank you, Chris Rosser!
Why hasn't the community approached tuning like this years ago. This now makes complete sense to me. Before it was just voodoo and trying random things. Thank you, Chris!
I like your videos so much! You have a very nice academic style to present your topics. Speech and explanations are slow enough to be able to follow. Please have the time and energy to continue your videos!
Thanks so much! I’ve never understood tuning my quads and this is a great place to start. P.S. for anyone who doesn’t see a “dee bug” mode in Betaflight Explorer, open “graph setup” bottom right and then you can add it!
Thank you for another great video, today I gathered bb data for all my quads and gonna bring some scientific touch to their tuning tomorrow. And impatiently waiting for next parts of this tutorial!
@@ChrisRosser yes! Also there’s opentx update has been released which improves tx latency with faster crossfire protocol, so now they supposed to fly at least twice better :)
Dayym! This works, and I actually (well, kinda..) understand the process... Decided to give all my drones the Rosser-treatment and the first one out was my iflight Titan XL5 phatbooi porker. Ended up with some pretty aggressive filtering and now we are off to do the PID-tune :) This video deserves a lot more likes and attention 👍🏻👍🏻
Love your work Chris! Have watched multiple of your videos before with fascination, but until now, have never really understood exactly what has been going on. There must be so many others like me who have been greatly helped by this excellent presentation. Looking forward to the next instalment
Fantastic work. I 100% agree with this logical approach and strategy. D term is the limiting factor and just randomly cranking it up to cope with frame resonances and motor noise just leads too disaster. Only really experienced pilots can get anywhere near a great tune by feel - I'm not one of them. A quantitative approach is the best way. Watching you and UAV Tech over the past few months has totally consolidated my existing knowledge and I can now fine tune with 100% success. One thing I'd add, just flying on default BF filter and pid settings and then analysing the data is perfect for 5 inch. But something , say with ducts and a poor frame build can fry motors extremely quickly. I always do a quick LOS shakedown flight in the garden for a minute and check temps for before heading out for the first proper tuning flight. If they're not stone cold something needs looking at.
@@ChrisRosser no it does not. Help me understand what filtering does please. It filters out vibrations from the motors,frame and props so the gyro on the flight controller still feels them but compensates for the vibrations when you fly so your whole flight experience is smoother. Is that the goal? To not have prop wash and whatnot?
Great as always. Like before, this was magic to me until now. I would ask that you make a companion video following this exact process for another frame/build, so we can see you carry it out and your thought process as you do so.
Man you are an excellent teacher... I watched your video carefully and I finally understood how filters work and their applications, definitely. Thank you very much!!!
This video is fantastic! Lays out filtering in a way that makes sense to me. 👍 Really appreciate all the effort people like you, Mark, and Joshua put into this content. Helps make the more arcane but important aspects of the hobby more accessible to people like me.
Ohh Chris I love you men, finally someone put all this in a single place, I finally will be able to learn the subtle art of tuning my quad. greetings from Colombia
Cheers for those Apex and Glide filter suggestions in your community tab, I just put a new build together with the Zeez F7 V2 FC and their 55a ESC and it was flying really poorly on stock, I used your filter suggestions and used UAVTech's PID tuning guide and now it's flying beautifully.
Thank you so much. You made it easy enough, and broke it down so that even I could understand. I'm a bit slow, so this one is going to be watched a few times. This is all extremely irritating to me right now, especially when I'm not sure if my FC is even any good. Troubleshooting as a beginner. 🙄😎🤘
Just dropping to say that I followed this tuning process and for the first time, i can say that i tuned my drone the way i wanted it to be. Anyone watching this, you should follow the steps until the end. (Giving you have a mechanically sound build) and you will be satisfied. Thank @chris rosser for sharing this knowledge.
Absolute home run. Been out of the game a couple years and this is just what I need to get back up to speed. Modern firmware is so good I honestly haven't been bothered. About all that's left is the last bit of propwash which I may now take a shot at. Thank you, subscribed!
Great job with this tutorial and explaining the core concepts. Also, really love the pointer used in this and a lot of your other videos. It is wholly underrated. Much better than just reading a static slide or having too many animations.
This is amazing. With this video, I just massively improved the performance of my latest build, and I understand why I did what I did, and how I did it. THANK YOU SO MUCH. You've well earned my support on Patreon. Your one video did what 18 months of countless videos couldn't do. My quad is flying like I've never known before, and I still have the PIDs to tune! Hey, Chris, if you're looking for a video idea, I think it could be helpful to do a frame/build resonance analysis that measures and explores the negative impact/increased noise/resonance that can be caused by poor habits, bad practices, or mistakes made during the build process. ..kinda like the video you did about the antenna oscillation issue due to using a long antenna in soft antenna mount, but continue with more examples of common build problems that can cause excessive noise. This would help to illustrate exactly what you mean when you say someone needs to go back and fix/work on the problematic physical aspects of their build before proceeding with tuning. It could give people in this situation a clearer starting point. I think right now, many may not know where to start when they hear that they need to go back and fix things before attempting tuning. Hope that makes sense. Thanks again!
@@ChrisRosser Sweet! After watching more of your videos, you do well identifying some of the physical areas to look into, for improving baseline noise profile of a build. I still think it'd be fun, and helpful, to see some of them quantified but I just had another thought too... I believe it was in the vibe, and resonance analysis of 5" and 7" quads that you casually mentioned motor and prop balance is never perfect. I immediately thought/hoped you might segue into some info on folding props, as they are said to be self balancing. Though you didn't mention folding props, I realized I am desperate to know more about self balancing, and aero dynamic qualities, and general physical and performance qualities of folding props. More than my previous suggestion, I would love to see you take a deep dive on folding props. It is quite possible this topic could have broad appeal as well. Thanks so much for taking the time to reply to my first comment above. I know this isn't always possible, so thanks. And thank you as well for your comsiderstion of taking a deep dive on folding props. Cheers!
I've been looking for a video like this one since I started getting interested in tuning! Usually filter tutorials are "I recommend using these settings, after you get comfortable you can get them more tuned in", which is OK but doesn't explain why and how they got to those settings... And I leave with more questions than answers.
Wow great vid mate. I've got back into flying after 2 years only got as far as timing to the end of this vid and I feel like I have loads more control already. Cant wait till I have time to do the pids aswell. Keep up the good work 👍
All great tips.. thank you.. i think one quad issue was battery strap pushing wires so they'd touch gyro. Since then and working on gyro filters in inav I've got it flying better
You talked about over tightening screws in step 1. Do you know the torque spec for the screws on a soft mounted motor? Soft mount is 1 mm thick tpu print. Should I be soft mounting at all? Does mounting directly to the arm give a more consistent and/or narrow frame resonance frequency? I want to torque the motors to the same spec so they all vibrate at the same frequency in as narrow a band as possible. So soft mount or not and what torque gets me the most narrow consistent resonance frequency? Please keep making videos like this!!!!
Very practical and intuitive! Thanks a lot @ Chris Rosser. I did learn a whole lot that I couldn't from others. Hopefully, I can get my quad to have a better performance.
I've very excited to go and try this out. I just build my first 5" last month and have been flying every day. I've noticed some points of my flight where I could use some better filtering but I've been worried about adjusting because I haven't had a good enough explanation specific to the filters. Thanks. :)
This might sound random because it is, but talking about frequency and seeing db on the screen (even tho we're talking vibration Freq not radio) just made me realise that we use db for measuring sound, but we also use it for measuring signal strength on a rf system but that's technically light, science loves to make new scales and ways of measuring stuff but they can't come up with a different way of describing the measurement of 2 different fundamental aspects of human life, light and sound lol! How loud is 1 lumen from 1 metre away? Haha ok back to trying to figure out filter tuning my quad
Exactly. What you are doing has been long awaited in this hobby. Seemingly unreachable knowledge, to many of us, put into easy to understand terms. Awesome 🙂🙂
Thanks ! the video about Pawo30 - it helped a lot. The motors stopped warming up, it flies perfectly. Now I solve the problem with the TitanXL5 4s-version , motors-2208. By default, the profile settings give hot motors. I understand that I need to deal with the black box.
Thanks for this video. PS : I would also recommand to keep an Gyro LP PT1 at high freq (Like 4OO or 600Hz) to avoid high frequency to come back in the low range due to nyquist shannon effect. (Just give a try, you would probably see a lower floor noice in the range 30-200hz ;) )
@@ChrisRosser Yes sure, but does it enough ? How many pole does the built in LP have ? It help also when you use 1khz Blockbox log where 800Hz noice comes back on 200hz according to nyquist
@@edouardmalot51 Hi Eduard, the PID loop is running at 4kHz or 8kHz so the attenuation of even a 250Hz single pole filter is enormous at those frequencies. Feel free to send me comparison logs with and without the PT1 but I don't see a mechanism by which aliasing could cause a problem.
@@ChrisRosser - You have aliasing issue in your blackbox log, so what you see is not what really append in your PID loop So with a blabkbox log at 1Khz, Nyquist freq is 500hz => a 800Hz noice appear at 200Hz in your blackbox log (but not represent what append in the PID loop). So sometime you try to filter a low freq noice, but in reality it is an high freq noice appear in low band due to nyquist effect in your blackbox log. But yes, I wasn't clear enought in my first message. - If an LP PT1 with Fc=600Hz on Gyro have an effect on your blackbox (like I saw many time, sorry I don't have log now with me), it mean you have some high freq noice not filtered by the built-in gyro LP. Note : Delay introduced by LP PT1 at 600Hz is 0,3ms
@@edouardmalot51 Ah I see. It only affects the log and not the PID loop so I am not worried at all. 0.3ms is more than 10% of my current total filter delay, I won't add a filter just to make the log look cleaner. Thank you for explaining this to me! 😁
so you have VERY well explained what the filters do and which is for what but failed to tell the last bit in "how to apply them" we know now what the data means, but not how this applies to BF Filter settings. your examples do not resemble the BlackBox data you have shown before at all like the 100Hz RPM or the 250Hz NotchQ with max at 400 wherein your BlackBox the range is between 180and 380Hz but you have set 100 and 400 ... don't get me wrong I do appreciate your video, it's just that the conclusion and the data shown isn't the same. this is what makes this stuff so complicated as literally ALL creators AND the Betaflight Def's themselves do this, the numbers are clear, the way how we get them too, but then there are completely different numbers applied.
Hi Mario, thanks for your comment. With the RPM filters and dynamic notch they target frequencies across a range. It is therefore vital that their min frequency is below the lowest frequency noise you wish to target. For the dynamic notch it is also important that its max frequency is higher than the max noise frequency. It is not critical what the exact value is as it will then target the frequency in flight. That said you do not want the notch filters coming too low in frequency or they add too much delay. 100Hz is a good balance between these two considerations. You also don't want to set the dynamic notch max frequency too high because that reduces its resolution.
Thanks Chris for such a wonderful videos, I just wants your advice I already followed your tips and after a clean build I turned off all filters as you did, and the results are outstanding for the performance in terms of smoothness,responses and motors sound , I don’t need even to change the PIDs I stuck with the default, but what I got it’s the heating I think it’s across the borderline of the normal, I live in Iraq and the weather temp around the 45C at 6pm !! 😩, if there any recommendations to do to reduce the hotter motor rather than changing my country 😅😅..
Thanks Chris for your reply.. but unfortunately there is an error occur and I couldn’t view your reply, it’s listed with notifications but couldn’t view it, I reached in reading when you said “ you can’t even “ and the rest doesn’t shows.. it will be awesome if you could send it again please ☺️
If you're flying in 45 C temperatures hot motors are normal. Under normal conditions motors will run 20C over ambient which will feel very hot in 45C weather. If your motors sound smooth I wouldn't worry.
aaaaah the procedural approach without "I feel like I should add a bit of that and remove of bit of this" I have always been looking for!
I know. Once you reduce filter tuning to a science I find it so much easier to understand!
Couldn't agree more!
me too! nice tutorial indeed!
This actually made complete sense to me. Time to tuneeeeeee
EXACTLY what I was looking for. So many stupid PID tuning videos, so many filter explaination. But no one actually xplaining what to set in BF. Big thanks, this is sooo practical :)
So glad to hear that. Hope it helps!
Sweet video Chris!!
9:40 - one minor thing: -3db is 71% of the signal amplitude gets through. It is 50% of the signal power, but we are not interested in power. Power doesn't mean anything in this application. That was a common confusion even with some lead devs till about 3-yrs ago.
Thanks for the correction! I knew there would be something I got wrong somewhere. I'll stick a card in the video.
Good to know Mark. I just started plotting power spectral density in dB in Pid toolbox. Everywhere I’ve read the conversion to dB is 10*log10(power spec). I hope that’s correct
@@PIDtoolbox 20 x LOG10(amplitude)
@@PIDtoolbox Should be fine because you are looking at the power spectrum, not amplitude spectrum. Problems only arise when comparing power to amplitude. You'd need to compensate for the square root (or the squaring, looking from the other way), so you'd need to multiply by 2, like UAV Tech pointed out.
Power ~ Intensity^2
Gotcha, thx guys. Yes, there’s a amp^2 and multiply by 2 in there in a previous step so that’s good. I’ve compared it directly to various other Matlab build in functions and it gives the same result. I just like to compute it myself so I don’t need as many Matlab toolboxes to make it work. Nice to have confirmation.
My thanks, I'm getting back into quads after a few years off. This brought tuning back into focus with little fuss.
Welcome back! Hope that your quad files great following the tuning.
I like the fact that you stay on topic with your videos unlike so many others that will jump all over the place.
I salute...
Finally, a tuning video that non geeks can understand. Been waiting for someone to make this video for a long time. Thank you for coming into fpv and making contributions
Glad you liked it!
I know it's not much, but I really appreciate you taking the time, and explaining everything nicely. Also, as a salesman, I really appreciate that you did a proper presentation, it looks good and is way easier to follow, than thrown together text on top of someone talking with no ideas where the thought will lead to.
10/10 would watch again.
I appreciate that! Thanks for your kind comment.
Wow! Been in the hobby for a long time! Never seen a Betaflight Filtering video this well explained. Great Job Mate! Awesome Work!
Thanks a lot!
This is excellent tutorial, going straight to the principles of why we turn off filters, and selecting dynamic / static type. I think what differentiate you the most is you're not overloading us with the act of tuning itself, but the fundamentals are explained in a concise manner
That was the goal. I'm glad I managed it!
I'm really into the engineering side of FPV flying and these videos are liquid gold
This video is GOLD. It's like a free high professional seminar in filter tuning. I'm watching it right now the second time and make even notes, like in class. So much knowledge. I love you man! Before your video I didn't know anything about filtering.
Wow, thanks! So glad that you found it useful. I hope that it makes your quads fly better than ever before.
Whhoooawww !! Thank you soo much for that video. That explains a lot of things I was not reaching to understand. And making the link between theory and concrete BF config. All that english wording may be easy for an english native, but not for others. Thanks soo much. That's one of the 10 videos most missing in our hobby.
Glad it was helpful!
Thank you very much. By following your instructions my drone is now flying perfectly for about 15 minutes. Earlier it would start drifting after about 3 minutes and crash. Thanks.
Brilliant! The light has come on,and now illuminating brightly!
I love that Aha! Moment. I hope you get your quads flying better than ever.
I really had a problem over the curse of now many years to fully understand betaflight. this video brought me so much closer to a fully understanding while saving so much time. also my quads fly much better now :)
Using the waterfall prooved super essential to find my right filters. Thanks for explaining even a bit more on how these betaflight filters actually work. What I would find good: Could you show how it looks when your filters work properly? Like showing before-after waterfall graphs and also some gyro+pid graphs? I got the noise of my quad down significantly, but still have the feeling that the signal to the motors is kinda noisy and thus wasting a ton of energy. But a bit of noise in that motor-signal seems ok if I look at UAV tech logs? Hard to judge!
This subject was a total mystery for me until I watched this video. The clearest and best explanation of how the filters work I've every seen.
That's what I was going for great to hear! 😁
Chris. THANK YOU for this. Finally an in-depth explanation on how to tune your quad instead of just saying "set this value to this and this one to that", which is what I've been mostly finding on the web. This feels like a proper lecture, and I say that in the most positive of ways. Not everything on RUclips has to always have the entertainment value. Thank you thank you! I am really looking forward to the next videos!
I crammed as much entertainment value into the thumbnail as possible! Thanks for your support.
@@ChrisRosser and it's a glorious thumbnail! 😁
Hi, Chris. Thank you for explaining everything in simple words. I have a SourceOne V3 frame and I made a modification to it by putting rubber inserts between the arms and both bottom plates. The effect of rubber inserts is amazing and decreased noise singnificantly. Now I think its comparable to AOS5 raw noise. If you are interested, I can send you my log file. I made those rubber inserts out of my silicone rubber case for mobile phone. It's about 1mm thick.
Nice work! I'm not surprised the rubber helped reduce vibrations but its great to hear that your quad is flying better than ever!
Big brain idea: Print it in TPU ;)
@@marcel.schulz I’m afraid tpu is too rigid for dumping vibrations. ...but please try an let us know;)
Thank you Chris! This is the best video explaining Betaflight filters I've ever seen! This is going to help a lot of people.
Awesome, thank you! I tried to keep it clear and simple but still provide lots of detail.
Hey Chris, I have a Flylens 85 and I’m wondering if this is the right approach to take. A little nervous resetting everything to default in the pids. Looks like Flywoo has made a lot of changes already and I’ve her some people say it won’t fly without these changes. Can anyone chime in?
You're a gift to the hobby. Very well explained. I looked forward to your tuning video. Cheers
Thank you kindly! It's nearly ready.
Thanks Chris... learning loads. At last somebody that explains things clearly and doesn,t waste time by blowing wind up their own arse.
Thank you Chris. I'm flying a hacked together LOS 3D quad that's pretty much a worst-case scenario in every possible way. Before following this video, my motors were boiling hot, untouchable, 70-80°C after a flight. Following your approach, they're now down to 40°C in regular freestyle LOS without reversing motors and down to 50°C in full on 3D flying.
Happy to be able to help!
Amazing, I think I need to clean my build up just a bit, two suspect screws in particular. Im seeing that vertical stripe at 200hrz. I finally feel like blackbox is worth my time. Thanks for another top notch video.
Hi Chris, I did this with my catalyst machineworks shocker tank, I did to mine, that which I asked about yours below, ie tightening up the min and max for dynamic notch and D-term, leaving a 25hz margin either side. I also noticed that my motor noise only showed 2 harmonics within the band range on explorer so dropped to 2 accordingly. Also no gyro filters as gyro debugging showed nothing. I have to say, even with deliberately abused props with extra notches (small) & some tips cut off, it still flew fine, not even warm motors and totally clean charts for gyros. FANTASTIC m8, thank you so much. Cant wait for pid tuning, coming soon. Best wishes to you
I can't believe how much better this made my quad fly!
Thanks Chris, this is awesome. Finally after over a year in this hobbie, someone has explained filters to me in a way that i can understand and that makes sense. Now, hopefully, i can tune my filters and pids and get a good flying quad without smoking any more motors, or at least not as often. Thanks for coming aboard and helping us all out with your vast knowledge. Thanks so much.
Thanks Kevin! I hope this helps you get your filters dialed in and your quad flying better than ever.
@@ChrisRosser Hey Chris, i spent this weekend working on tuning my diatone taycan. Way better now but not quite dialed in yet. Had to remove the gopro to get it close. Kept going from bounce back to dterm oscilations in forward flight. The videos you have done are awesome but what woyld really help me and probably others would be an example of setting up filters and pids on a dirty build and with and without a gopro, cinewhoop and tuning for running 6s throttle limited on 4s. Just some ideas. I really appreciate what your doing. Thx
That was extremely helpful. I could pick your brain for hours about filtering but this helped clear up a few things for me. My biggest sticking point has always been what to look for in the logs and how to react to it. So thank you
Glad the video helped unstick you! 😁
This is the content we have been needing on this subject! I know this area is convoluted and those in the past that have tried to explain this, glaze over too many of the steps. Thank you for giving us a proper foundation on filters!
Glad it was helpful! I wanted to go step by step through the whole process. The more experienced pilots can then just skip the stuff they already know!
This is incredible. I was a bit afraid of doing it, but actually I have cooler motors compared to what I had when I had slider filter setting at 1.6. Go figure....
Oh and the quad flies amazing.
Thank you very much!
Glad it helped!
Chris, this video is VERY good! I think you're doing what I wish Bardwell was doing. I'm one of the guys that's been following Bardwell for some time and feel that his information has stagnated, you are taking it the next step, thank you! I've enjoyed your videos, but this time you have taken it to the next level! I'm repeating but it is well deserved. I'm really looking forward to the next video, I must say you've inspired me to start using blackbox!
I would love to have made this video but the truth is I just don't have enough grasp on the topic to put the information together like Chris has done. I'm really glad Chris is making this content and look forward to learning from it.
@@JoshuaBardwell Chris did a great job but I think you’re selling yourself short Joshua, didn’t you look at logs years ago? Don’t get me wrong, I’m on your discord for a reason, but I do miss being driven forward by new knowledge.
Simply wow! Suddenly all the magic about how to set your filters right is gone and I can finally understand what effects of which filters tame what kind of noise introduced by which problem! It all clicks together now and I finally feel confident enough to try and tune my quad without having the need of flying for years just to know what to "feel"!
Thank you, Chris Rosser!
Why hasn't the community approached tuning like this years ago. This now makes complete sense to me. Before it was just voodoo and trying random things. Thank you, Chris!
I like your videos so much! You have a very nice academic style to present your topics. Speech and explanations are slow enough to be able to follow. Please have the time and energy to continue your videos!
Thank you! 😃
Thanks so much! I’ve never understood tuning my quads and this is a great place to start.
P.S. for anyone who doesn’t see a “dee bug” mode in Betaflight Explorer, open “graph setup” bottom right and then you can add it!
Glad it helped! Thanks for your support.
Thank you for another great video, today I gathered bb data for all my quads and gonna bring some scientific touch to their tuning tomorrow. And impatiently waiting for next parts of this tutorial!
Sounds great! Hope that you get your quad flying better than ever.
@@ChrisRosser yes! Also there’s opentx update has been released which improves tx latency with faster crossfire protocol, so now they supposed to fly at least twice better :)
Honestly, this is a gem. Thank you so much for passing on the knowledge. Greetings from France.
My pleasure! PIDs up next.
Dayym! This works, and I actually (well, kinda..) understand the process... Decided to give all my drones the Rosser-treatment and the first one out was my iflight Titan XL5 phatbooi porker. Ended up with some pretty aggressive filtering and now we are off to do the PID-tune :)
This video deserves a lot more likes and attention 👍🏻👍🏻
Love your work Chris! Have watched multiple of your videos before with fascination, but until now, have never really understood exactly what has been going on. There must be so many others like me who have been greatly helped by this excellent presentation. Looking forward to the next instalment
Oh, and a question. If I don’t see RPM filtering as an option, presume it’s because it ISN’T an option with my flight controller? (GEPRC F722)
It probably means you don't have bidirectional D shot set up and enabled correctly. There are videos to walk you through it on JBs channel.
Best explanation I have ever seen , you explain the concepts so easy than now its time to use them thanks
Fantastic work. I 100% agree with this logical approach and strategy. D term is the limiting factor and just randomly cranking it up to cope with frame resonances and motor noise just leads too disaster. Only really experienced pilots can get anywhere near a great tune by feel - I'm not one of them. A quantitative approach is the best way. Watching you and UAV Tech over the past few months has totally consolidated my existing knowledge and I can now fine tune with 100% success. One thing I'd add, just flying on default BF filter and pid settings and then analysing the data is perfect for 5 inch. But something , say with ducts and a poor frame build can fry motors extremely quickly. I always do a quick LOS shakedown flight in the garden for a minute and check temps for before heading out for the first proper tuning flight. If they're not stone cold something needs looking at.
his explanation of how to tune the kwad its the best so far and u made easy for us to understand it thank u
Wow, that's a lot, just trying to wrap my head around the basics so I appreciate this video it's the first of its kind that I've ever seen
Thanks I hope it helps you with your tuning!
@@ChrisRosser no it does not. Help me understand what filtering does please. It filters out vibrations from the motors,frame and props so the gyro on the flight controller still feels them but compensates for the vibrations when you fly so your whole flight experience is smoother. Is that the goal? To not have prop wash and whatnot?
Great as always. Like before, this was magic to me until now. I would ask that you make a companion video following this exact process for another frame/build, so we can see you carry it out and your thought process as you do so.
Check out my review of the QAV-S which shows me going through this process on that frame!
A clear explanation, with animations as support to make it extra clear, what more could you want!
Man you are an excellent teacher... I watched your video carefully and I finally understood how filters work and their applications, definitely. Thank you very much!!!
This video is fantastic! Lays out filtering in a way that makes sense to me. 👍 Really appreciate all the effort people like you, Mark, and Joshua put into this content. Helps make the more arcane but important aspects of the hobby more accessible to people like me.
Finally a great explanation of what are those numbers. Thanks Chris!
Glad it was helpful!
Ohh Chris I love you men, finally someone put all this in a single place, I finally will be able to learn the subtle art of tuning my quad.
greetings from Colombia
Happy to help! I hope you get your quad flying even better than before.
Cheers for those Apex and Glide filter suggestions in your community tab, I just put a new build together with the Zeez F7 V2 FC and their 55a ESC and it was flying really poorly on stock, I used your filter suggestions and used UAVTech's PID tuning guide and now it's flying beautifully.
Awesome! Glad the filter suggestions helped 👍
Thank you so much. You made it easy enough, and broke it down so that even I could understand. I'm a bit slow, so this one is going to be watched a few times. This is all extremely irritating to me right now, especially when I'm not sure if my FC is even any good. Troubleshooting as a beginner. 🙄😎🤘
Why this video have no ads, all other garbage have alot of ads, quality videos like this deserves monitization
I don't want to cover the video in ads. I'd much rather people enjoy the video than the ads!
@@ChrisRosser Very nice of you. Great video
Just dropping to say that I followed this tuning process and for the first time, i can say that i tuned my drone the way i wanted it to be. Anyone watching this, you should follow the steps until the end. (Giving you have a mechanically sound build) and you will be satisfied. Thank @chris rosser for sharing this knowledge.
You're welcome!
Thank you ! This is the absolute best betaflight filter tutorial ever. Awesome job, very well explained !
Glad you enjoyed it!
Thanks for this methodic approach. Really looking forward to watch some tuning episodes based with this same approach.
More to come on PID tuning!
YES please!! This looks like an awesome Tuning series. Thank you
PID tuning video is nearly done. Hold on to your hats 😁
Absolute home run. Been out of the game a couple years and this is just what I need to get back up to speed. Modern firmware is so good I honestly haven't been bothered. About all that's left is the last bit of propwash which I may now take a shot at. Thank you, subscribed!
Thanks for the sub!
Part two please ;) This was very good. Thank you for taking the time to do this.
CHOCK full of amazing info for tuning ! thank you so much for making this
My pleasure!
Great job with this tutorial and explaining the core concepts. Also, really love the pointer used in this and a lot of your other videos. It is wholly underrated. Much better than just reading a static slide or having too many animations.
Hi Chris, this is an amazing job you have done here. Thank you sooo much !
Great content, Chris. You have a talent for teaching, I am very much looking forward to the rest of the series.
This is freaking awesome explanation of filtering, thank you Chris
Glad it was helpful!
This is amazing. With this video, I just massively improved the performance of my latest build, and I understand why I did what I did, and how I did it. THANK YOU SO MUCH. You've well earned my support on Patreon. Your one video did what 18 months of countless videos couldn't do. My quad is flying like I've never known before, and I still have the PIDs to tune!
Hey, Chris, if you're looking for a video idea, I think it could be helpful to do a frame/build resonance analysis that measures and explores the negative impact/increased noise/resonance that can be caused by poor habits, bad practices, or mistakes made during the build process. ..kinda like the video you did about the antenna oscillation issue due to using a long antenna in soft antenna mount, but continue with more examples of common build problems that can cause excessive noise. This would help to illustrate exactly what you mean when you say someone needs to go back and fix/work on the problematic physical aspects of their build before proceeding with tuning. It could give people in this situation a clearer starting point. I think right now, many may not know where to start when they hear that they need to go back and fix things before attempting tuning. Hope that makes sense. Thanks again!
Thanks for your support. I've added your suggestion to my list!
@@ChrisRosser Sweet! After watching more of your videos, you do well identifying some of the physical areas to look into, for improving baseline noise profile of a build. I still think it'd be fun, and helpful, to see some of them quantified but I just had another thought too...
I believe it was in the vibe, and resonance analysis of 5" and 7" quads that you casually mentioned motor and prop balance is never perfect. I immediately thought/hoped you might segue into some info on folding props, as they are said to be self balancing. Though you didn't mention folding props, I realized I am desperate to know more about self balancing, and aero dynamic qualities, and general physical and performance qualities of folding props. More than my previous suggestion, I would love to see you take a deep dive on folding props. It is quite possible this topic could have broad appeal as well.
Thanks so much for taking the time to reply to my first comment above. I know this isn't always possible, so thanks. And thank you as well for your comsiderstion of taking a deep dive on folding props. Cheers!
Excellent explanation, ty so much. Can't wait for PID tuning part from you.
Coming soon!
Thanks Chris - bringing together a lot of my old studies. Great work!
My pleasure! Thanks for your support.
Thanks Chris. Nailed the data and explanation as always. Amazing content. Stay well and safe.
Thanks Clare. Happy flying and take care!
Thanks , I’ve watched alot of bf tuning vids and I feel like yours gave me the best understanding of the filters.
I have never turned so many things off and been so 😊, Thanks for ALL your videos!
ProTek35 ELRS 2.4 500HZ
Great to hear!
Awesome approach to Tuning, Fact Based, easy to understand. Big Thumbs up for sharing and looking for further Tuning!
Much appreciated!
I've been looking for a video like this one since I started getting interested in tuning! Usually filter tutorials are "I recommend using these settings, after you get comfortable you can get them more tuned in", which is OK but doesn't explain why and how they got to those settings... And I leave with more questions than answers.
Glad it was helpful!
Wow great vid mate. I've got back into flying after 2 years only got as far as timing to the end of this vid and I feel like I have loads more control already.
Cant wait till I have time to do the pids aswell.
Keep up the good work 👍
Looking forward for the next filtering video from you!
Coming soon!
thankyou, you are a great explainer, super detailed and easy to understand.
You're very welcome!
@@ChrisRosser i'm following the entire saga in this moment... May i ask you if this is also applyable to emuflight / kiss / flightone?
Thanks.
@@fefpv5001 Yes.The tuning method should work for any firmware provided it has the relevant tools.
the best tutorial ive whatched!
great video!
Wow! This was so great and easy to understand. Thank you Chris.
You are welcome!
What a great video this was! Learnt a lot about filters today, awesome work!
Glad you enjoyed it!
as usual great video! Thanks so much for a straightforward explanation of filters in BF.
My pleasure!
I needed this. Thanks for everything you do, you are one of the greats. 👍
Happy to help!
Awesome work as always Chris
thank you for making a clear, explained and full how to about tuning
Glad it was helpful!
I just wanna give a super genuine thanks for this. 🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏
All great tips.. thank you.. i think one quad issue was battery strap pushing wires so they'd touch gyro. Since then and working on gyro filters in inav I've got it flying better
Glad it helped.
You talked about over tightening screws in step 1. Do you know the torque spec for the screws on a soft mounted motor? Soft mount is 1 mm thick tpu print.
Should I be soft mounting at all? Does mounting directly to the arm give a more consistent and/or narrow frame resonance frequency? I want to torque the motors to the same spec so they all vibrate at the same frequency in as narrow a band as possible. So soft mount or not and what torque gets me the most narrow consistent resonance frequency? Please keep making videos like this!!!!
Excellent, informative, very well put together video. Love your channel, thank you!
Beautiful job and explanation, Chris. Very grateful for the time you've spent on putting this together for us. Subscribed.
Thanks for the sub! Every subscriber really helps me reach more pilots and engage effectively with the industry.
Very informative and explained well I now think I have better understanding of this black box thank you
You are welcome 😁
Very practical and intuitive! Thanks a lot @
Chris Rosser. I did learn a whole lot that I couldn't from others. Hopefully, I can get my quad to have a better performance.
Glad it was helpful!
Awesome. This is a very clear, simple explanation.
I've very excited to go and try this out. I just build my first 5" last month and have been flying every day. I've noticed some points of my flight where I could use some better filtering but I've been worried about adjusting because I haven't had a good enough explanation specific to the filters. Thanks. :)
This might sound random because it is, but talking about frequency and seeing db on the screen (even tho we're talking vibration Freq not radio) just made me realise that we use db for measuring sound, but we also use it for measuring signal strength on a rf system but that's technically light, science loves to make new scales and ways of measuring stuff but they can't come up with a different way of describing the measurement of 2 different fundamental aspects of human life, light and sound lol! How loud is 1 lumen from 1 metre away? Haha ok back to trying to figure out filter tuning my quad
I love this channel. Excellent information and advice in easy to understand format. Superb 🙂
You just summed up everything I am trying to do!
Exactly. What you are doing has been long awaited in this hobby. Seemingly unreachable knowledge, to many of us, put into easy to understand terms. Awesome 🙂🙂
Thanks ! the video about Pawo30 - it helped a lot. The motors stopped warming up, it flies perfectly. Now I solve the problem with the TitanXL5 4s-version , motors-2208. By default, the profile settings give hot motors. I understand that I need to deal with the black box.
Awesome, thank you. Finally I start understanding this (:
You're welcome!
Thanks for this video.
PS : I would also recommand to keep an Gyro LP PT1 at high freq (Like 4OO or 600Hz) to avoid high frequency to come back in the low range due to nyquist shannon effect.
(Just give a try, you would probably see a lower floor noice in the range 30-200hz ;) )
The gyro has a low pass built in at 250Hz. That should cut out any Nyquist shenanigans?
@@ChrisRosser Yes sure, but does it enough ? How many pole does the built in LP have ?
It help also when you use 1khz Blockbox log where 800Hz noice comes back on 200hz according to nyquist
@@edouardmalot51 Hi Eduard, the PID loop is running at 4kHz or 8kHz so the attenuation of even a 250Hz single pole filter is enormous at those frequencies. Feel free to send me comparison logs with and without the PT1 but I don't see a mechanism by which aliasing could cause a problem.
@@ChrisRosser
- You have aliasing issue in your blackbox log, so what you see is not what really append in your PID loop
So with a blabkbox log at 1Khz, Nyquist freq is 500hz => a 800Hz noice appear at 200Hz in your blackbox log (but not represent what append in the PID loop).
So sometime you try to filter a low freq noice, but in reality it is an high freq noice appear in low band due to nyquist effect in your blackbox log.
But yes, I wasn't clear enought in my first message.
- If an LP PT1 with Fc=600Hz on Gyro have an effect on your blackbox (like I saw many time, sorry I don't have log now with me), it mean you have some high freq noice not filtered by the built-in gyro LP.
Note : Delay introduced by LP PT1 at 600Hz is 0,3ms
@@edouardmalot51 Ah I see. It only affects the log and not the PID loop so I am not worried at all. 0.3ms is more than 10% of my current total filter delay, I won't add a filter just to make the log look cleaner. Thank you for explaining this to me! 😁
Thank you sir, extremely straight forward and helpful. The best kind of instruction.
Thanks! I'm glad you found it useful.
Thank you chris your tutorial was
excellent going follow up with your next video on pid tuning.
This was very well put together in my opinion
so you have VERY well explained what the filters do and which is for what but failed to tell the last bit in "how to apply them"
we know now what the data means, but not how this applies to BF Filter settings.
your examples do not resemble the BlackBox data you have shown before at all like the 100Hz RPM or the 250Hz NotchQ with max at 400 wherein your BlackBox the range is between 180and 380Hz but you have set 100 and 400 ... don't get me wrong I do appreciate your video, it's just that the conclusion and the data shown isn't the same. this is what makes this stuff so complicated as literally ALL creators AND the Betaflight Def's themselves do this, the numbers are clear, the way how we get them too, but then there are completely different numbers applied.
Hi Mario, thanks for your comment. With the RPM filters and dynamic notch they target frequencies across a range. It is therefore vital that their min frequency is below the lowest frequency noise you wish to target. For the dynamic notch it is also important that its max frequency is higher than the max noise frequency.
It is not critical what the exact value is as it will then target the frequency in flight. That said you do not want the notch filters coming too low in frequency or they add too much delay. 100Hz is a good balance between these two considerations. You also don't want to set the dynamic notch max frequency too high because that reduces its resolution.
Thanks Chris for such a wonderful videos, I just wants your advice I already followed your tips and after a clean build I turned off all filters as you did, and the results are outstanding for the performance in terms of smoothness,responses and motors sound , I don’t need even to change the PIDs I stuck with the default, but what I got it’s the heating I think it’s across the borderline of the normal, I live in Iraq and the weather temp around the 45C at 6pm !! 😩, if there any recommendations to do to reduce the hotter motor rather than changing my country 😅😅..
Thanks Chris for your reply.. but unfortunately there is an error occur and I couldn’t view your reply, it’s listed with notifications but couldn’t view it, I reached in reading when you said “ you can’t even “ and the rest doesn’t shows.. it will be awesome if you could send it again please ☺️
If you're flying in 45 C temperatures hot motors are normal. Under normal conditions motors will run 20C over ambient which will feel very hot in 45C weather. If your motors sound smooth I wouldn't worry.
@@ChrisRosser
Thank you so much Chris, ☺️