In the late 90s I almost bought my first new car. It was the most basic Chevy Cavalier, white with black plastic bumpers and steel wheels. I left the dealership on a Friday evening and drove 17 miles home. On the drive home I noticed the engine temperature climbing to worrying numbers. When I parked at home it was losing coolant. I called the dealership and told them what was going on and they told me to come back the next day and they'd add some coolant. I said no, brand new cars with 25 miles on the odometer shouldn't be overheating and I didn't want the car. I wanted my trade in back. They argued, saying it was my car, but the financing hadn't been secured yet. The next day I took the car back and left in my old car. The Cavalier also overheated on my way back to the dealership. I feel like I really dodged a bullet with that car.
My father and I both drove 2003 Cavaliers for years. I put over 100,000 miles on mine in 5 years. I had to change the starter when it went out but that's the only maintenance it ever required other than oil changes. Great cars
@@darksu6947 I had a Toyota Tercel that ran perfect, I put 270,000 miles on that car and then sold it, and it is still going, 100k on a Toyota is just barely broken in.
Its cars like that, that keep Steve in business. They have people at the car makers that run the numbers, and they figured they can afford a precise number of defects, and still stay in business.
I was on a mock jury in a similar case. A wealthy man gave a poor man a truck. The title was signed over, tag removed and turned in to the DMV and insurance removed. but the poor man didn't transfer it to his name or get insurance. Of course a bad wreck hurting another person while the poor man was driving with no insurance. They wanted to sue the wealthy man. I was the adamant hold out. #1 the title was signed over #2 in my state it's the buyer's responsibility to transfer title. Everybody agreed the woman is the victim, but most thought he has money and the truck was never transferred. The jury wanted the rich guy to pay because he had money I was not having it he did his due diligence according to state law
That is part of why Texas now gives the ability of the owner to remove themselves from ownership. The buyer is still required to do title transfer, but the seller can document that they no longer retain ownership.
@@AbNomal621 That is smart. I sold a jeep once and had this issue. The freaking moron never registered the vehicle. I told him to get it done or I was calling the state police and reporting it stolen.
@@colep5867 I had no intention of lying to police. It was a scare tactic to motivate the clown to get it done. Had I spoke with police, I would told them the situation exactly. I imagine most states have laws about not registering a vehicle you purchased and driving it.
I had a dealer tell me to “just take the truck home today (Friday evening) and we’ll finalize everything on Monday.” I asked whose insurance would it be under while I drove it. The dealer told me it would be under mine. I told him my insurance wouldn’t take responsibility until the deal was finalized. He told me if I didn’t want to do it that way, I could get out. I happily did so.
@@ThereIsNoOtherHandleLikeMine not the one I had at the time. It was a cheap company and it was difficult to just get someone on the phone for simple questions.
@@GhostDrummer Lawsuits happen because companies are difficult to deal with. US and Canadian law require them to cover cars you drive. You were covered.
I worked at a new car dealership 45 years ago. A group from a local Mennonite colony came in to deal on a few pickups and Suburban. It was at the time they were becoming more open to the community. They had a young lad as part of the group as it turned out was 16 years old. The senior members of the colony were out test driving a vehicle and the 16-year-old and a few others of the group were looking around the showroom floor. A rookie salesman engaged in conversation with the 16-year-old. Which lead to the salesman offering to let the 16-year-old kid take a test drive on a new Camaro. They got less than a half mile from the dealership and the kid going at least 25 MPH over the speed limit rolled the Camaro. The kid and salesman crawled out and walked back to the showroom. No one claimed any injuries. The dealership wanted the Colony to pay for the car. They refused as the kid was not licensed to drive and did not have permission from the parent or colony leader. The Dealer insurance would not touch it as the driver was not licensed. The dealership ended up eating it and looking for a new salesman.
Your comment about dealers and plates reminds me of an experience I had. Bought a used car. Dealership had rights to issue plate through the state of Florida. After months I never received registration. I called DMV and dealer never processed registration and plate. Dmv told me if pulled over I would have been arrested for having a fraudulent tag and unregistered vehicle. Nice!
The dealerships are desperate to keep the sale, they don't want you going home in your own car because you might have time to regret it, and decide to keep your car. I went to a dealership and after several hours we were hungry and said we needed to leave for lunch, and they went out of their way to make us take the new car to lunch. They have to keep you in the new car to keep you "on the hook".
I keep hearing, on RUclips videos, how in the US it takes "many hours" in the dealership to buy a car. If ever I happen to go to the USA, then upon entering a dealership I'll gladly announce "I am here for one hour. If by the end of that time I haven't selected the car, received all the papers, read all the papers, and signed all the papers, then I'm leaving and NOT coming back". Certainly if a car sales had wasted several hours of my morning unnecessarily to the point it was hungry and I left for lunch, I damn sure wouldn't be returning. Personally amongst my 20-ish lifetime car purchases, only 2 were from used car dealers, both deals being in cash/bank cheque, so no finance papers needed. (the other 18-ish car buys being private sales, mostly older cars). In both cases my time at the dealership was probably around three quarters of an hour, most of that time being assessing the car and test driving it.
@@KiwiCatherineJemma It's only hours to buy if you have bad credit or you don't really want the car but they want you to buy the car. The Werefrog spent half an hour to an hour, including test drives and the time to take car to an independent mechanic to look it over, per car to decide on the car. Then it is usually pretty quick to go over the papers. Maybe half an hour tops for the paperwork.
@@werefrogofassyria6609 the reason it takes so long, is us normal people with good credit have normal jobs, and go in on Saturday or Sunday. Being busy days it takes a long time for them to get someone to fill out the paperwork, I paid cash for my last car and I was still there for a couple of hours.
@@KiwiCatherineJemma For me, it was hours because my own family members kept arguing that I should get a different vehicle. The dealers will do a pre-prepared speech for every single vehicle you openly discuss, so you can imagine how annoyed I became.
The term used in the car business is "pupping". If you give the customer the car for the day, weekend, etc. they will likely fall in love with it just like if they took a puppy home from the pet store. They fall in love and you sell a car.
When I was in high school, I came across an incredibly rare Gibson guitar in a hard case laying in a pile of junk. It was only made for about 2 months in 1959. I took it, repaired it, and sold it to a friend. Two years later a man in our small town went into a rage when he saw it. It ended up in court, and was ruled that my friend owned it because the original owner could not prove he maintained ownership over the decades, and my friend had a bill of sale from me. It was crazy. Ownership is complex.
I think “laying in a pile of junk” would be the contentious part of the statement in a courtroom. One man’s junk pile is another man’s music room full of equipment?
@@doittoit00 Yes lying in an open dumpster is a pile of junk, or in a pile of garbage on the street kerb waiting for the garbage truck. Or was it in an open garage.....
It was in a pile of insulation and other debris (lots of genuine junk) from when our concert hall was being rebuilt at the school. I only knew the name was good, so I pulled it out of the pile. Turned out to be something genuinely valuable, but I didn’t know it then.
So your school was doing construction, and this guitar for some reason didn’t get removed prior to demolition and got caught up in the debris, and you took it just thinking no big deal because the rest of the junk was construction material? And the judge, hearing that, said the original owner of the guitar had no claim to the guitar? Something doesn’t add up.
California uses a form titled “Notice of Transfer and Release of Liability” to be filled out by the seller and turned in to DMV. It puts DMV on notice that the seller no longer owns and is not liable for whatever happens involving the car and that the seller is no longer required to maintain insurance. It is up to the buyer to register/title the car in their name. The form contains both buyer and seller info, and DMV will send a reminder if the buyer doesn’t do the registration in a certain amount of time. Hopefully it helps avoid all of this!
A bill of sale would also release the seller from responsibility, though he'd have to go to court to prove he wasn't the owner. The burden of proof would be on the seller to prove he was not the owner. It sounds like in Lehto's case ownership was contingent on financing and if the person hadn't obtained financing the car would have been physically taken back. I have seen that California form and that is a good policy. My state has a similar law, but in practice NO ONE DOES IT. The seller is required to report the sale to the state, but few do. This is really important if the vehicle is sold to a resident out of state because states don't always talk to each other and the vehicle may be forever listed in his name in his name in his official state motor vehicle database which should give the seller some cause for concern.
That form in California saved us some fines. I filled it out for my BF (now husband) when he sold a car. The new owners never registered it and it was found abandoned and towed. They sent him the bill for towing and storage. It was a lot of money. We sent back via registered mail a copy of the release form. They dropped it.
My state, Florida, has a similar law. A car's tag and its registration are two different things. If you sell a car, you are supposed to file a Notice of Sale to remove its registration from your name. Once it is filed, you are then allowed to cancel the car's insurance. The tag itself, though, stays with the seller so it can easily be transferred to another vehicle. I recently sold a car to my nephew who lives in another state. I wanted to keep the tag to transfer to another car I was buying. The Florida DMV advised me to give him permission to drive the car to his home while it was still registered to me. Then he was to mail or ship the physical tag and the top part of its Florida Title (which I gave him as a Bill of Sale) back to me. I then filed that part of the Title and a Notice of Sale with the DMV. That took the car out of my name, but left the tag assigned to me. My nephew could then register the car in his name and get new tags in his state. When I picked up my new car, the dealer registered it in my name and did the paperwork to assign my existing tag to it. No muss, no fuss.
I'm glad that you recognize that Canadian dollars and American dollars are different. I worked for a Canadian business where most of our sales were to the US and customers paid in US dollars. For about 6 months we had a book keeper who decided to ignore the difference. It was a nightmare for her replacement to resolve all of the problems.
As someone that worked for a dealership, starting with a “K”, in Wausau, WI, I can 100% say that incomplete paperwork happens ALL the time! …and yes, we have boxes and boxes of new license plates…even have them for motorcycles.
In Indiana, if you trade a car they'll take your plate off your car and put it on the new car. Then they say that the Sales Agreement is your registration until the BMV processes the other paperwork that was filed by the dealer. I guarantee that there was no Sales Agreement for this car since the financing hadn't come back yet.
In BC, Canada, You can transfer your 'old' plates to a just purchased vehicle and have 10 days to 'officially' register it with the gov. You must have the completed/signed paperwork with you.
On a related matter in BC, our provincial insurance/licensing agency (ICBC) apparently now requires all drivers of a vehicle to be listed on the insurance. My wife owns our car, but I have to be listed as a regular or principal driver (and show my DL to prove who I am) and my rate - to and from work - defines our insurance rates. Not sure how it works with lending the car to someone for an errand though. Obvously would be on us if we knew or should have known they were impaired but despite that accidents can happen. Best to play it safe and just not lend a car to anyone. And I would never let someone drive off with a car I sold them without going to the nearest ICBC outlet (basically any insurance agent) and getting my seller's copy stamped so it's clear I no longer own the car and have no liability for someone else's bad decisions. Learned that lesson the hard way.
Car title ownership can be complicated for instance here in the U.K. the registered keeper may not be the owner of the vehicle, as with a company car, Thank you for posting your videos are always interesting
@@KM-zu9wethe woman was found to be a vulnerable adult by the judge so, maybe not. That's why they went after the dealership, because she was taken advantage of
For the last 20 years, I have successfully used a tactic to purchase/lease new cars. I talk with the dealership sales manager and set up an appointment and tell him right up front......30-minute deadline. I walk in and reinforce the 30-minute deadline and clearly state, that is for everything including financing discussions. I put my offer on the table and remind them of the time left during the negotiation. Only one time was it not successful but.... the next day they called me back and said, "you were serious" and I said yes. They then said that they would have all the paperwork and car ready and signed if I would purchase the car. I told them I would IF they agreed to my previous offer, which they did. Always remember, there are other dealers around and you can get service anywhere.
This is called "Spot Delivery" or "Yo-yo scam" and car dealers have been doing it for decades. Every new car I planned on buying, I was allowed to drive it home same day before financing was secured. It sometimes took weeks to get financing approved. I seriously doubt that dealerships will change this tactic because they sell so many cars this way and one case isn't going to scare them. Plus they carry high insurance limits for situations like this.
In BC where this happened, the province handles the insurance. This means that the title, registration, and proof of insurance are all on one piece of paper along with the owner's name. No way legally just switch the plate to another vehicle. This can make importing a vehicle into Washington State resemble "Who's on First". "Let me see the title", "OK." "Let me see the registration". "OK". "No, that's the title". "It's both". "It can''t be both. Where's the proof of insurance?" "OK". "No, that's the title". Continue for 20 minutes, talk to a supervisor, etc.
Only the second non-selfish comment I’ve seen so far. Thank you. The other being someone asking, why are we not talking about the guy only getting three years for murder and attempted murder…
I work at a dealership... this is a common thing to hook the customer by dealerships .... drive it over the weekend ...but they have to provide a valid insurance before they can drive it off the lot ... at least at our dealership...but a dealership is the owner until the title is signed by all parties
11:52 How does the outcome make complete sense? We established that the dealership owned the vehicle, but I missed how owning the vehicle makes them liable for anything that is done with it. That's the KEY here.
OK so I get this in this case. Imagine a truck driver for Amazon drives negligently and kills someone. The driver goes to prison and has to pay out damages. Amazon also has to pay out damages because it was their driver & their car. They could've taken more precautions/whatever thus they're liable. In this case, it's the dealership's car. Still, I don't fully understand it, so if someone could please explain this, from the point of view of the society, what is this achieving? Other than punishing severely the dealership for fudging paperwork and neglecting the proper process
"If you give someone permission to drive your vehicle, you as the vehicle owner are responsible for what they do with it."@@PGspeed88 Are they? I don't think that's the law in most places...You can even test drive a car with no intention of buying, does that make dealers liable for anything test drivers do? Are rental companies liable for anything renters do? You're making an absurd claim that isn't backed by any law I've heard of....and I didn't hear any such law mentioned in the video, nor have I seen any such law in the comments, nor have I heard of such a law in real life.
@@OneWheelMan Rental....The renter has a contract to assume liability for the car including insurance.... test drive....I have yet to see a dealer allow a test drive off their property without a dealer representative riding along. ownership is responsibility.
@@OneWheelManI'm in Canada and that is definitely how it works here. My mother in law had her own vehicle with insurance. For some reason, my wife gave her the keys to our car and she was in an accident. My insurance paid for the repairs. If my insurance company wanted, they could have tried suing her and her insurance.
Where I am in Ontario Canada the plate must be registered to the car before you can drive a car with that plate. I have bought a few cars and have never been allowed to take a car home without financing being approved.
some years back, I found out in the most interesting way, that in New Mexico, if you have your car registered with a vanity license plate (I.E. custom message on the plate) state law allows you to remove the plate from the vehicle it is registered to, and temporarily place it on another vehicle, you have legal possession of, without any paperwork filed at all. (to summarize, the owner had transferred his plates from his car to his SUV for a road trip, and the SUV was carjacked and involved in a crash)
@@kenbrown2808 That is because, according to the state, you actually own the plate, while the regular one is state property. Thus they allow you to move the plate from one vehicle you own, to another vehicle you also own, and as you own the plates this is allowed. Fines will still accrue to the owner of the vehicle as the plates do identify them still.
@@kenbrown2808 When it is a speed camera they do not bother to verify make and model matches before the fine is sent. Pull over they will simply verify owner matches ID. Gotten enough tickets in the post where the vehicle shown only has matching plates, and it was wrong make, model and colour. Enough so that the ticket also has a section where you get a link to download an affidavit that you send, where you disclaim the ticket.
I've been watching your videos for a few years now, this year decided to start my own used car dealership (still in process of starting up, have location, just waiting on getting my dealers license). Enjoy the content, thanks for the legal insight and entertainment. To my understanding, in Wisconsin, if the financing isn't finalized - the dealership still owns the vehicle. Dealer plates stay on the vehicle, and if the dealer allows the vehicle to be taken home - it is looked at as a test ride. I have been offered this on trade-ins - swap your car and take this one home for the day/weekend - however not while waiting on financing.
The bit you said at the end about Canadien and American money being different reminds me about a skit on the Red Green show. Red and his nephew entered into a contest with an American team. Each team had to pay something like $1000 check to enter. The contest ended being a draw. So, The teams received the other teams check. The nephew commented about how they came out even. Red said we got $1000 American so we're ahead.
In Ohio, they can take your plate(s) off and put them on the car you purchase and it's perfectly legal for the period it takes, up to 45 days, to get the paperwork done. This eliminates the need for a temp-tag. However, you need to have the completed paperwork first and you must have a copy in the vehicle, along with an updated insurance card, in the car if pulled over.
Years ago I went to visit friends in a town about 20 miles from where I lived. They were busy when I arrived so I decided to stop by the Jeep dealer and pick up a brochure for the new 2002 liberty. My local Jeep dealer was a joke. I went in looking for a brochure and ended up buying a Jeep. They had exactly what I wanted on the showroom floor. I had excellent credit and put cash down also. They were going to let me drive it home then and there but I said I dont want to take it till I own it and I had to get my truck home. Maybe I dodged a bullet years ago . When I got back to my friends place they asked if I got the brochure , I said "no but I bought a Jeep"
I just purchased a care a few weeks ago. The dealer required a certified or bank check and proof of insurance for the exact car purchased. The insurance company issued a binding letter and insurance card that only took effect upon closing. The bank wanted the purchase agreement, window sticker, and proof of insurance. All the documents were electronic except for the check. No one took anyone's word or said, "We'll figure that out later".
From Ontario, CAN here. I bought a used van in August (for cash), from a dealership. The entire transaction took 1hr and I drove away with a plated vehicle. :)
In Canada they do not have titles for cars, a bill of sale and a previous owners registration sign off transferring ownership is taken to the motor vehicle registry office transferring your old plates to the new vehicle or get new plates or a paper In Transit.
If you have ever worked at a dealership, you know that the dealership owners, finance companies, all the way down to the service departments are as crooked as a barrel of snakes.
Deals will ALWAYS "spot deliver" a car without financing in place because they want to "de-horse" the buyer by taking away his current car and force commit the buyer to continue with the transaction.
This is such horse 💩💩💩💩💩💩. The dealership should not have any part of the suit as its purely a money grab from them. The only guilty parties should be the man driving. They dealership played no part in the accident.
That is not how the law works. The owner of the vehicle is also liable. When my sons started to drive I took out an umbrella insurance policy to protect me. Fortunately my three sons are good drivers.
Good Lord! That guy shouldn't have been driving that day, but he's not the only issue. The dealership should NOT have let that Jeep out of their sight until the paperwork was fully processed.
I have had a few different insurance companies cover my farm vehicles. I have called dozens of times over the years to check coverage for a newly acquired vehicle and every different company, some were well known and some were not (like Rain and Hail), but they all had 30 days grace coverage as long as all vehicles were insured by them. Is this not true in BC?
If this were to happen in the Netherlands, the insurance company that insured the car at the moment of the crash would be liable for making sure the victim was compensated. If the insurance company feels something illegal has happened or otherwise something that shouldn't be covered by the insurance, they'll then turn around and demand the money from whoever did the thing (be it the dealership for letting a wrong person drive it, or the driver for the DUI), but either way the victim wouldn't have to sue (unless she disagreed with the insurance about the amount of money).
I have one question. Does the dealership bankroll the inventory, or is the inventory financed by a bank as are most dealerships. If a bank is financing the inventory, that bank is the true owner of that inventory, making the bank liable ?
Something similar happened to me years back and the dealer had me sign a rental agreement which would be in effect until the financing would be in place. They also made a copy of my insurance and drivers license. The rental agreement itself was a no-charge rental, although I would be required to pay the rental if the financing fell through and not too mention they had my credit card information as well for the rental.
Yes the dealership messed up here, in not doing this, and thus the fault arrived at the dealership door, not the dealership insurance company. If they had gotten her to sign a rental agreement for the period, even at zero cost, the dealership insurance would have been the one liable for it.
@@777CaptMark Yes, a simple easy document, which covers pretty much all this case, and also if the vehicle is stolen or has an accident in the interim time. Dealership should have this as part of the purchase documents, just fill it in with a zero day clause in the case financing is done before leaving, or if it was paid for in cash fully. Surprised there is not anything like this already, unless the dealership messed up, or they did not want to pay any costs for the extra insurance, say for vehicles sold on consignment. Would have covered the one time i saw a sports car which had an incident getting on the transporter, where the one ramp was pulled loose by a little too much pedal application, leaving the vehicle balancing in the air, with one side on the ramp, and the other side floating in air, and hard on the edge of the trailer bed. Engine off, brakes on hard, as the driver did not want to change anything and drop it 1m to the ground, till they had gotten a high lift jack there, and chocks, to hold the dangling parts, and then use another to lift the front, and get it fully on the transporter. Did not want to guess who drew the short straw to phone the owner, as those were all sold on consignment.
In Canada, at least in the provinces where I've lived, the buyer has to go to the licensing office to get registered. You are permitted to use your old plates for 24 or 48 hours.
I've NEVER heard someone holding onto a car for 9 days without financing! In fact once when we were new in town and we tried to buy a car, we were told the maximum time to hold a vehicle we didn't own was 3 days! On Sunday evening we got a call that said we didn't get approved for the vehicle we wanted...but they just happened to have a car on the lot we could have! (As a former car dealer I recognized their bait and switch game and therefore I told my husband we were going to their competition and see about getting a better deal!) We got the vehicle we actually wanted that day and therefore we returned to the trickster dealership and returned their vehicle!
No. That was a game "I guess we need a court to decide who even owns the car that moment and to what percentage." Aka, normal things that happen in court.
How is who owns the car even relevant? It's the person driving it who killed someone, not the owner. It's possible to drive cars without owning them.. Where is the law that says the owner is liable for anything the driver does? I can rent a car, I can even test drive a car I don't own....does that make the OWNER liable for anything I do with the car? No. That's insanity.@@christopherg2347
In Ontario (next door), plates are transferred (IF you already have them) to the purchased vehicle, and the buyer is responsible to go to a govt service centre to get the paperwork done for the plate transfer to a 'new' vehicle - which may include taxes if it's a used vehicle. After that, then you go and have insurance transferred (if already an insured driver), which is generally a phone call. None of which has to be done the same day. IIRC it's within ~7 business days of transaction. Never had to deal with financing, so 'ownership' was never an issue - as far as I can tell, IF there was a claimable incident between purchase and 'finalizing' paperwork that would be a dispute between you and your insurance co (you still have the insurance, but different car would change rates). ALL of this, of course, is reliant on you already having had plates for the vehicle AND valid insurance at the start. Note: the govt paperwork ALSO includes all recall/repair notices issued for the vehicle AND all recorded incidents/claims/previous sales/owners of the vehicle. Note 2: THREE AND A HALF YEARS FOR DEATH BY VEHICLE and all the other charges is insanely too short. Driver killed a cyclist in Toronto a few years ago, 3 months. IF it hadn't been for the community and the family, he wouldn't have even been charged since the cops continued to lie about WHO was at fault...hint, it was the driver who ran the red light...that the cops knew all along.
in b.c. canada if you own 2 cars one has a one plate and other dosn't have one the one that does motor blow up or not safe for the road. you can take the plate from that car to put in on the other car and drive it for 10 days,also you have plates from other vehicle and buy new or used vehicle you can use it for 10 days too.
I had a similar situation. Bought a low mileage vehicle off a lease. Safety check was expired, and i didn’t want to drive off the lot, and risk a traffic ticket. Dealer agreed to add on statement: ‘Dealer will be responsible for any ticket(s) for expired safety check’.
A very common practice in Oklahoma is the use of the UMVPC's spot delivery agreement in conjunction with - retail purchase agreement, buyer's guide, retail installment contract, security agreement and disclosure. The sale is contingent upon the dealer finding a buyer for the installment contract within so many days but the buyer is considered the owner and required insurance maintained.
Paid for or approved for a loan means nothing. Did the application for new title take place? PLUS this is a very good reason why liability insurance should follow the driver and not the car
I remember hearing Dr. Walter Williams describing a very good question... when someone would say that, for instance, a national park belonged to "all of us," the professor would reply okay, show me which piece is mine, because I want to sell it. Of course he would be told he couldn't sell his share, which meant that it wasn't his. So they hand you the keys to the car while the paperwork still isn't done, and tell you to come back. But meanwhile you get into an accident and somebody tragically dies. The dealership tries to insist that you own the car and therefore are liable. Might be a good place to ask the question, "Since I own it, I can sell it to someone else... right?"
I don't get why the owner has any responsibility for an accident caused by a 3rd party. So I can steal a car and crash it the owner has to pay my medical bills? If I rent a car and crash it is the rental company liable? If an airline stewardess slaps a passenger is Boeing responsible? This seems absurd.
When you think about this, Dealership seems to Always tells Customers to take Vehicle Home and we’ll get the Financing Finalized. BIG Mistake Legally. 🤪👎
In a world of common sense (may exist in another dimension) there is one and ONLY one person responsible for this terrible incident. Dragging in the uninvolved owner is not right.
Yep, I hate how this entire video is focused on who owns the car.....but fails to say how owning the car makes them liable for what the driver did. I can rent vehicles I don't own, does that make the owner liable for anything I do? Heck, I can even TEST DRIVE a vehicle I don't own with no agreement to buy it...does that make the owner liable if I kill someone with it?
@OneWheelMan while I get the sentiment the lady who got hit needs to be compensated for her losses, medical, death of sister and all. And because the dealer still owned the vehicle they bare most of the responsibility. It's more about the legal assessment of the situation vs the actual fault of the accident. But the dealer shouldn't be giving out vehicles unless they are sold.
I think it's also a matter of responsibility. As the person who owns the car, you can't lend it out recklessly. If she owned the car, she might have tried the defense of "He was fully sober when he left. He got drunk/high while he was out against my permission" and maybe it would be been a different verdict. If a person lends their car to someone they know is drunk, they are absolutely equally responsible as the driver. I'd even argue more responsible if the owner is sober because their decision making isn't impaired. Because the car dealer owned the car, they failed to take due care in who was driving the car. I bet you at no point did the salesman say "You are the only person allowed to drive this vehicle until the paperwork clears". They didn't care who was driving it, only who was paying for it.
I disagree. If you were a parent and your 16 year old killed someone while borrowing your car you are liable as well because you chose to lend them your vehicle and must assume the ultimate responsibility for it. The same logic can be applied to the dealership. Dealers are on the hook for the cars ultimately since it is their parent companies who bring the cars physically into the world.
By virtue of dealer actions, the woman became a permissive user and insured by dealer insurance. Beyond this, everything is legal strategy. In dealer business, DELIVERY of the vehicle completes a sale. Court ruling is correct ass the dealer failed to complete the sale on paper but affected delivery. SCARY how often this crap happens at franchise dealers.
You can transfer your plate from the old car to the new car if your old car is sold . It’s up to the car owner to register the plate transfer the ins within two weeks of the sale . I’m in Alberta Canada
I'm in the UK. Here we have a document called a V5C. This may be the equivalent of Title in the US. It states that the named person on the V5C is "The registered keeper" and not the owner. The V5C actually says in very large letters "This document is not proof of ownership". The owner is the person who paid for the vehicle and has receipts/documentation saying that the person owns the car. Also in the UK, every car comes with it's own registration number and cannot be transferred to another vehicle. Any individual can buy a "private number" and reregister the vehicle under that number. 13:0813:081:304:15
Until all the paperwork is signed, the dealers know you can back out. They know if you leave the lot, say at end of business, there is a VERY good chance you will have buyers remorse and NEVER come back. That is why they will take the risk and let you take the car home: "You have the car, it is yours, you HAVE to finish signing". They use many different tactics to get you to sign every piece of paper to get that car. They hold your Drivers License hostage, they keep you there for HOURS to make you tired and more willing to sign just to GET IT OVER WITH. And yes, it is not uncommon to let you have the car for a few days to pressure you into thinking it is yours and you HAVE to finish signing. 9 days is quite a long time, most of the time it will be overnight, or a Friday to Monday thing. I was a guard at a used car lot, so I have seen some of the things they do.
As a dealer here in Oz the only time I let a car go without payment was with finance approved. And it was supposed to be paid for by the broker the following day. THEN they changed their mind! By which time the buyer had put diesel in the tank,, of a petrol car. So after that hard and fast NEVER allow the car to go until paid for. I did also have a car paid for in full on a Saturday so we lent them a trade plate until Monday when we could register it. They disapeared getting various fines for months after. And we had reported the plate stolen Monday afternoon. For the trade plate we had a standard form to loan them, with return date and they were liable for all fines incurred.
In British Columbia (Canada) when you "buy" a car, you can use the plates (insurance) from your previous car for 10 days provided you have and carry proof that you sold or otherwise disposed of the car the plates came from - and - proof that you own the vehicle you put the plates on. It's basically a temporary transfer of insurance. Within 10 days you must register the purchase of the "new" car and/or insure it if you want to drive it on public roads. The problem here may be that the driver did not yet actually own the vehicle and so cannot legally slap his/her plates on it under this temporary registration/insurance scheme. Further it may be that the dealership assured the driver it was "fine" to use his existing plates. There is no mention of whether the vehicle the plates came from was actually sold or disposed of either.
Putting a plate on a car that has been issued to a different car is illegal. Or at least it was when I was young and stupid... Has anything changed that I don't know about? And if it has then that would be an ideal law to take massive advantage if if I was so inclined from the point of view of a criminal. For starters, the VIN on the plate WOULD NOT MATCH THE VIN ON THE VEHICLE...
With the economy uncertain, not buying a car right now makes sense for a few reasons. Firstly, cars are costly, and in uncertain times, it's crucial to save money and keep your finances stable. Using public transport or rideshares can save you money. Secondly, technology and car-sharing options offer convenient transport without the expenses of owning a car, like maintenance and insurance. Moreover, fewer cars mean lower emissions, contributing to a greener planet. Choosing eco-friendly options supports global efforts to fight climate change. Lastly, waiting lets you assess your finances when things stabilize. You can focus on saving, investing, or other essential needs like education or debts. Being patient and evaluating your needs can lead to a wise and financially responsible decision about getting a car.
My financial advisor advises buying cars when interest rates and prices are low. However, he also cautions against it right now due to the hidden costs of car ownership, like insurance and maintenance. He helps me plan for these expenses and manages my portfolio to ensure financial stability. It's all about making strategic decisions and having a well-rounded financial plan.
Thank you for the valuable insights. I appreciate your detailed explanation, which helps me understand the reasoning behind the decision. It's clear that being mindful of financial stability, exploring alternative transportation options, and considering the environmental impact are crucial factors in making a well-informed choice about purchasing a car. Your perspective, coupled with the guidance of a knowledgeable financial advisor, would undoubtedly ensure a well-thought-out and financially responsible decision. Your approach highlights the importance of expert advice in navigating these financial considerations thoughtfully.
Your financial journey is truly inspiring, and I'm currently striving to achieve the goals you've reached. Could you please share some tips to help others learn and navigate their own paths to financial success? Your insights would be invaluable.
I believe everyone could benefit from having a personal financial advisor. They can assist you in reaching your customized financial objectives at any point, ensuring you remain profitable.
As somebody with experience from dealing with ICBC (Insurance Company of British Columbia) insurance is tied to the vehicle. I had ICBC staff yell at me because they had to associate a driver's license to a license plate because I took a bad pic of the license plate. I was told in very specific terms that insurance belongs to the vehicle.
in my area, the standard business practice is that the insurance is specific to the vehicles and the drivers named in the policy, but it can be extended to temporary use by another driver, or the driver operating another vehicle for personal use, with permission from the owner. so if I borrow my brother's car, that is covered by both my and my brother's insurance. but if my boss asks me to drive his car to the store for something, he has to have insurance that specifies I can drive his car for work purposes.
Question: In previous videos you have stated that the vehicle is yours even if the financing falls through. It becomes the dealership that holds the note. Does that any bearing on this case?
In those cases, paperwork was filled out saying it was sold, and they tried to take it back when the bank wouldn't finance at that rate. In this case, less paperwork was finished, and they didn't tell the buyer it was finished.
A Ford dealer in Florida did the same thing to me I had the truck for a month and they couldn't figure out the paper work for The Lending so I had to bring it back I had a free truck for a month with their tag on it
@@DKNguyen3.1415 People who are drunk or on drugs are usually much more relaxed, and don’t tense up as much in an accident. Edit: And these victims were walking…
Why does who owns the car matter? Again renter doesn’t own the rental car, is Hertz liable? If I let my friend borrow my car and he is covered by his insurance and a day later he gets in an accident, how could I be liable? The dealership let person x take it home, then person x chose to let person y drive the car without the knowledge of the dealer. If person y should’ve have known person was impaired, then I can see x and y being liable but not the dealership. Now if the dealership let an impaired person take the car, sure.
I had a driver who had a stroke driving a passenger van. He was supposed to turn left on 6th Street. He plowed into several cars at 8th street. My insurance company denied the claim based on state law. Turns out that I wasn’t liable either. Luckily no one was seriously injured. My driver lived but wasn’t Charged.
In BC specifically we only have one insurance company for the whole province. Usually at bigger dealerships they have an icbc rep that will set up your insurance and give you plates. Though when buying a used car there is a form you have to fill out to transfer the title before you get new plates. So regardless of financing or any other paper work that she signed, until the title transfer form is filled out and signed the previous owner is the owner. However if the car had insurance on it, it really should be icbc paying for the damages, but they recently made a change that payable damages for bodily harm cannot exceed $10k. Though they'll write off a $100k Mercedes without a second thought
in new zealand the plates stay with the car unless they are personalised plates. we do a change of ownership online so it is instant, and done before the car even leaves the lot. there is no way you can drive or even park a car on the road without plates, they will fine you. plates are issued by a government agency, we do have dealer plates and they are used to take the car for inspection, because you cant get plates unless the car passes inspection
As a former Alberta and British Columbia car salesperson, I have seen multiple cars "rolled" off of the lot, driven by people that had not yet been approved. It's a common tactic to instill the feelings of ownership into the purchaser. It is to prevent them leaving without that new automobile, and thus to prevent that potential buyer from shopping elsewhere. I have many, many times seen purchasers approved and made into buyers days after they had left the lot in the car. Human nature says that the purchaser will show off that shiny newness, and when confronted with needing a co-signer or to add substantially to the down payment, that person is far more likely to ask family or others for additional funds to finalize the transaction. Our GM or Sales Manager made the call after consulting with the finance manager. If it looked likely that the purchaser would get approved, at the end of the day, they decide if they want to "Roll" the person. I have had many deals completed days later, while the client was driving the new car. Some people just require very creative financing.
I guess in some cases it comes down to not leaving the victims suffering any more than they already have so any party with any amount of negligence that can be latched onto will do. I mean...I get it.
In a previous video, you mentioned that a purchase does not depend on whether or not the dealership can find financing. The dealership is on the hook to finance the transaction, and if they can't find an outside financer to pick up the debt, they can't call up the buyer and say "give us the car back." Is the difference here the little bit about the incomplete paperwork? Wouldn't the result have been different if the paperwork had been finalized, regardless of whether the dealership could get financing?
Judge ripped up the original contract thus putting the dealership as being the owner. The contract probably had that the vehicle was theres, but dependent on the financing being completed. So if it fell through they probably would just repossess the vehicle
Every viewer & every comment benefits Steve’s channel. Two real smart moves Steve made were to hide the $100 bill & to let his friend, Canadian Robot Lady, do the intros & outros. I look for the bill, wait to hear the CRL outro & also pay close attention to the content but I seldom comment on that content. Steve’s going for 500K subscribers.
In a similar case, a mechanic at a dealership who didn't know how to drive a standard shift transmission drove a vehicle over another mechanic in the shop resulting in extensive injuries. The case was argued the owner of the car was responsible, and not the dealership. I don't know the outcome of that case.
There is also the issue of the dealership taking her car in as trade. What happened with her original car, does the dealership think that now they own that vehicle to do with as they please? We went a different route our last auto buying foray, we sold our vehicle to a company called Cheddar auto and got more than if we would have traded it in, then we banked that money to put towards a new vehicle. Found a vehicle right around the corner from home a Subaru, purchased from a Ford commercial truck dealership. We got a great financing deal with our credit union, we have never paid down a vehicle as fast as we were able to with this one. Payments are taken out every paycheck (split the large amount, basically making 13 payments instead of 12). They even worked with us when my husband fell off a ladder at work.
this isn't good. the dealership has nothing to do with it. this is opening the door for victims of firearm crime to file suit against firearm sellers and manufacturers. we often say that about gun crimes, "you don't sue ford when someone runs you over in an out-of-control mustang."
why does the fact that the dealer owned the car make them liable? so if I let my sister borrow my car and she fell asleep and hit someone, I'd be the one going to jail? why? in the scenario in this video, if the guy wasn't driving the dealers car he'd likely be driving some other car and falling asleep and running 2 people over. why is anyone other than the driver (and the drivers insurance) liable? how does this "make complete sense"?
You bring up a good point. If the dealership is negligent for not finishing the deal and is held liable, then the buyer is also negligent in not ensuring the driver was sober enough to drive the vehicle. Also, just three years for murder? Crazy.
@@jayhache5609 how is the dealers "negligence" of not finishing the deal in anyway affect someone else running over another person? if they finished the deal and the buyer fully owned the vehicle, the guy would have still fell asleep and still hit the 2 people... I mean if they stole the car and hit someone, would the dealership still be liable since the dealership owned the vehicle? Also hoping to get an answer from Mr. Lehto since he said this makes sense to him. Mr. Lehto can you explain why who owns the vehicle even matters?
this is why i am glad i am not a lawyer, because this seems like a giant mess, because the same argument could be made, that if a friend asked to use your car and that person drove it, but got into an accident, that the owner could be sued. even tho the owner wasn't driving it. i mean i get it there is lots of actors at play, like if the dealer didn't let the car go there would be no accident, but if the person driving the car didn't go unconscious then there would be no accident.
I would think the dealership implying ownership would be the big difference than lending a vehicle to a friend. IOW, paying for their deceptive practices, which they should.
I live in Kentucky. Years ago I sold a motorcycle to a guy who never registered it in Indiana. I had to pay the taxes. I tried to call him but his girlfriend refused to admit she even knew him. I had a copy of the title sent to me and then I turned the title in as scrap. He tried calling me several times over the next two weeks. I found out later through a friend’s social media account that the police impounded the bike and he had to pay a bunch of money to get it back and registered. He was on SM ranting about how dirty is was for me to do that. He got called out and eventually deleted his facebook account.
Went home with new SUV on Friday once, got pulled over because of dealer plate. Told me that they were having trouble on stolen cars with those plates at the time? Checked out I guess they let me go. I don’t think I’d do it again
This happened in miami, where a dodge dealer gave a test drive of a changer and they lost control high spped in rainy condition and killed a child on the side walk that was with his family. The dealer was sued
The Dealership still owned the vehicle, regardless of whose tags were on it. The contract was not completed and the dealership still legally owned the vehicle. The financing has to be completed and have guarantee of payment from the finance group before they can transfer it to the new owner.
In the late 90s I almost bought my first new car. It was the most basic Chevy Cavalier, white with black plastic bumpers and steel wheels. I left the dealership on a Friday evening and drove 17 miles home. On the drive home I noticed the engine temperature climbing to worrying numbers. When I parked at home it was losing coolant. I called the dealership and told them what was going on and they told me to come back the next day and they'd add some coolant. I said no, brand new cars with 25 miles on the odometer shouldn't be overheating and I didn't want the car. I wanted my trade in back. They argued, saying it was my car, but the financing hadn't been secured yet. The next day I took the car back and left in my old car. The Cavalier also overheated on my way back to the dealership. I feel like I really dodged a bullet with that car.
You really dodged that bullet, those cars were garbage, you could smell the lemon juice dripping off of them from 20 yards.
My father and I both drove 2003 Cavaliers for years. I put over 100,000 miles on mine in 5 years. I had to change the starter when it went out but that's the only maintenance it ever required other than oil changes. Great cars
@@darksu6947 I had a Toyota Tercel that ran perfect, I put 270,000 miles on that car and then sold it, and it is still going, 100k on a Toyota is just barely broken in.
Its cars like that, that keep Steve in business.
They have people at the car makers that run the numbers, and they figured they can afford a precise number of defects, and still stay in business.
My mom had a nineties Chevy that was a lemon too, but they really took her for a ride. Took advantage of a widow who bought her first ever new car.
I was on a mock jury in a similar case. A wealthy man gave a poor man a truck. The title was signed over, tag removed and turned in to the DMV and insurance removed. but the poor man didn't transfer it to his name or get insurance. Of course a bad wreck hurting another person while the poor man was driving with no insurance. They wanted to sue the wealthy man. I was the adamant hold out. #1 the title was signed over #2 in my state it's the buyer's responsibility to transfer title. Everybody agreed the woman is the victim, but most thought he has money and the truck was never transferred. The jury wanted the rich guy to pay because he had money I was not having it he did his due diligence according to state law
I imagine most lawyers aren't going to take a case unless they're going after deep pockets, especially if they're working on contingency.
That is part of why Texas now gives the ability of the owner to remove themselves from ownership. The buyer is still required to do title transfer, but the seller can document that they no longer retain ownership.
@@AbNomal621 That is smart. I sold a jeep once and had this issue. The freaking moron never registered the vehicle. I told him to get it done or I was calling the state police and reporting it stolen.
@@Vicos it's probably inadvisable to lie to state police
@@colep5867 I had no intention of lying to police. It was a scare tactic to motivate the clown to get it done. Had I spoke with police, I would told them the situation exactly. I imagine most states have laws about not registering a vehicle you purchased and driving it.
I had a dealer tell me to “just take the truck home today (Friday evening) and we’ll finalize everything on Monday.” I asked whose insurance would it be under while I drove it. The dealer told me it would be under mine.
I told him my insurance wouldn’t take responsibility until the deal was finalized. He told me if I didn’t want to do it that way, I could get out. I happily did so.
Your insurance will cover any vehicle you are legally driving.
@@ThereIsNoOtherHandleLikeMine not the one I had at the time. It was a cheap company and it was difficult to just get someone on the phone for simple questions.
@@ThereIsNoOtherHandleLikeMine Not always true. Coverage in non owned vehicles varies by carrier, policy, and market.
@@GhostDrummer Lawsuits happen because companies are difficult to deal with. US and Canadian law require them to cover cars you drive. You were covered.
@@Everything817 Always true. Read the law.
I worked at a new car dealership 45 years ago. A group from a local Mennonite colony came in to deal on a few pickups and Suburban. It was at the time they were becoming more open to the community. They had a young lad as part of the group as it turned out was 16 years old. The senior members of the colony were out test driving a vehicle and the 16-year-old and a few others of the group were looking around the showroom floor. A rookie salesman engaged in conversation with the 16-year-old. Which lead to the salesman offering to let the 16-year-old kid take a test drive on a new Camaro. They got less than a half mile from the dealership and the kid going at least 25 MPH over the speed limit rolled the Camaro. The kid and salesman crawled out and walked back to the showroom. No one claimed any injuries. The dealership wanted the Colony to pay for the car. They refused as the kid was not licensed to drive and did not have permission from the parent or colony leader. The Dealer insurance would not touch it as the driver was not licensed. The dealership ended up eating it and looking for a new salesman.
Your comment about dealers and plates reminds me of an experience I had. Bought a used car. Dealership had rights to issue plate through the state of Florida. After months I never received registration. I called DMV and dealer never processed registration and plate. Dmv told me if pulled over I would have been arrested for having a fraudulent tag and unregistered vehicle. Nice!
The dealerships are desperate to keep the sale, they don't want you going home in your own car because you might have time to regret it, and decide to keep your car. I went to a dealership and after several hours we were hungry and said we needed to leave for lunch, and they went out of their way to make us take the new car to lunch. They have to keep you in the new car to keep you "on the hook".
I keep hearing, on RUclips videos, how in the US it takes "many hours" in the dealership to buy a car.
If ever I happen to go to the USA, then upon entering a dealership I'll gladly announce "I am here for one hour. If by the end of that time I haven't selected the car, received all the papers, read all the papers, and signed all the papers, then I'm leaving and NOT coming back".
Certainly if a car sales had wasted several hours of my morning unnecessarily to the point it was hungry and I left for lunch, I damn sure wouldn't be returning.
Personally amongst my 20-ish lifetime car purchases, only 2 were from used car dealers, both deals being in cash/bank cheque, so no finance papers needed.
(the other 18-ish car buys being private sales, mostly older cars).
In both cases my time at the dealership was probably around three quarters of an hour, most of that time being assessing the car and test driving it.
@@KiwiCatherineJemma It's only hours to buy if you have bad credit or you don't really want the car but they want you to buy the car.
The Werefrog spent half an hour to an hour, including test drives and the time to take car to an independent mechanic to look it over, per car to decide on the car. Then it is usually pretty quick to go over the papers. Maybe half an hour tops for the paperwork.
@@werefrogofassyria6609 the reason it takes so long, is us normal people with good credit have normal jobs, and go in on Saturday or Sunday. Being busy days it takes a long time for them to get someone to fill out the paperwork, I paid cash for my last car and I was still there for a couple of hours.
@@KiwiCatherineJemma For me, it was hours because my own family members kept arguing that I should get a different vehicle. The dealers will do a pre-prepared speech for every single vehicle you openly discuss, so you can imagine how annoyed I became.
The term used in the car business is "pupping". If you give the customer the car for the day, weekend, etc. they will likely fall in love with it just like if they took a puppy home from the pet store. They fall in love and you sell a car.
When I was in high school, I came across an incredibly rare Gibson guitar in a hard case laying in a pile of junk. It was only made for about 2 months in 1959. I took it, repaired it, and sold it to a friend. Two years later a man in our small town went into a rage when he saw it. It ended up in court, and was ruled that my friend owned it because the original owner could not prove he maintained ownership over the decades, and my friend had a bill of sale from me. It was crazy. Ownership is complex.
I think “laying in a pile of junk” would be the contentious part of the statement in a courtroom. One man’s junk pile is another man’s music room full of equipment?
My first thought was: where was the pile of junk?
@@doittoit00 Yes lying in an open dumpster is a pile of junk, or in a pile of garbage on the street kerb waiting for the garbage truck. Or was it in an open garage.....
It was in a pile of insulation and other debris (lots of genuine junk) from when our concert hall was being rebuilt at the school. I only knew the name was good, so I pulled it out of the pile. Turned out to be something genuinely valuable, but I didn’t know it then.
So your school was doing construction, and this guitar for some reason didn’t get removed prior to demolition and got caught up in the debris, and you took it just thinking no big deal because the rest of the junk was construction material? And the judge, hearing that, said the original owner of the guitar had no claim to the guitar? Something doesn’t add up.
California uses a form titled “Notice of Transfer and Release of Liability” to be filled out by the seller and turned in to DMV. It puts DMV on notice that the seller no longer owns and is not liable for whatever happens involving the car and that the seller is no longer required to maintain insurance. It is up to the buyer to register/title the car in their name. The form contains both buyer and seller info, and DMV will send a reminder if the buyer doesn’t do the registration in a certain amount of time. Hopefully it helps avoid all of this!
A bill of sale would also release the seller from responsibility, though he'd have to go to court to prove he wasn't the owner. The burden of proof would be on the seller to prove he was not the owner.
It sounds like in Lehto's case ownership was contingent on financing and if the person hadn't obtained financing the car would have been physically taken back.
I have seen that California form and that is a good policy. My state has a similar law, but in practice NO ONE DOES IT. The seller is required to report the sale to the state, but few do. This is really important if the vehicle is sold to a resident out of state because states don't always talk to each other and the vehicle may be forever listed in his name in his name in his official state motor vehicle database which should give the seller some cause for concern.
That form in California saved us some fines. I filled it out for my BF (now husband) when he sold a car. The new owners never registered it and it was found abandoned and towed. They sent him the bill for towing and storage. It was a lot of money. We sent back via registered mail a copy of the release form. They dropped it.
My state, Florida, has a similar law. A car's tag and its registration are two different things. If you sell a car, you are supposed to file a Notice of Sale to remove its registration from your name. Once it is filed, you are then allowed to cancel the car's insurance. The tag itself, though, stays with the seller so it can easily be transferred to another vehicle.
I recently sold a car to my nephew who lives in another state. I wanted to keep the tag to transfer to another car I was buying. The Florida DMV advised me to give him permission to drive the car to his home while it was still registered to me. Then he was to mail or ship the physical tag and the top part of its Florida Title (which I gave him as a Bill of Sale) back to me. I then filed that part of the Title and a Notice of Sale with the DMV. That took the car out of my name, but left the tag assigned to me. My nephew could then register the car in his name and get new tags in his state. When I picked up my new car, the dealer registered it in my name and did the paperwork to assign my existing tag to it. No muss, no fuss.
Only if they finalized the loan and completed the sale would the dealer complete the transfer of title so the form would not have been completed.
I'm glad that you recognize that Canadian dollars and American dollars are different. I worked for a Canadian business where most of our sales were to the US and customers paid in US dollars. For about 6 months we had a book keeper who decided to ignore the difference. It was a nightmare for her replacement to resolve all of the problems.
lol wut?
@@DKNguyen3.1415 Book keeper with no clue, or just could not give a damn.
holy shit
Canadian and US dollars are the same. For most of us in our respective countries, scratchiing out a living, there aren't nearly enough of them.
As someone that worked for a dealership, starting with a “K”, in Wausau, WI, I can 100% say that incomplete paperwork happens ALL the time!
…and yes, we have boxes and boxes of new license plates…even have them for motorcycles.
In Indiana, if you trade a car they'll take your plate off your car and put it on the new car. Then they say that the Sales Agreement is your registration until the BMV processes the other paperwork that was filed by the dealer. I guarantee that there was no Sales Agreement for this car since the financing hadn't come back yet.
In BC, Canada, You can transfer your 'old' plates to a just purchased vehicle and have 10 days to 'officially' register it with the gov. You must have the completed/signed paperwork with you.
On a related matter in BC, our provincial insurance/licensing agency (ICBC) apparently now requires all drivers of a vehicle to be listed on the insurance. My wife owns our car, but I have to be listed as a regular or principal driver (and show my DL to prove who I am) and my rate - to and from work - defines our insurance rates. Not sure how it works with lending the car to someone for an errand though. Obvously would be on us if we knew or should have known they were impaired but despite that accidents can happen. Best to play it safe and just not lend a car to anyone. And I would never let someone drive off with a car I sold them without going to the nearest ICBC outlet (basically any insurance agent) and getting my seller's copy stamped so it's clear I no longer own the car and have no liability for someone else's bad decisions. Learned that lesson the hard way.
Ben under the right corner of the Low Flying Owl sign.
Car title ownership can be complicated for instance here in the U.K. the registered keeper may not be the owner of the vehicle, as with a company car,
Thank you for posting your videos are always interesting
What about the guy who was driving? Why did he pass out? Was he intoxicated or was it some kind of medical emergency?
Sounded like he was dui because he got several years. But I think the person who handed him the keys are also liable, which was the woman.
She and the driver probably don't have much money. The dealer has the deep pockets.@@KM-zu9we
@@KM-zu9wethe woman was found to be a vulnerable adult by the judge so, maybe not. That's why they went after the dealership, because she was taken advantage of
For the last 20 years, I have successfully used a tactic to purchase/lease new cars. I talk with the dealership sales manager and set up an appointment and tell him right up front......30-minute deadline. I walk in and reinforce the 30-minute deadline and clearly state, that is for everything including financing discussions. I put my offer on the table and remind them of the time left during the negotiation.
Only one time was it not successful but.... the next day they called me back and said, "you were serious" and I said yes. They then said that they would have all the paperwork and car ready and signed if I would purchase the car. I told them I would IF they agreed to my previous offer, which they did. Always remember, there are other dealers around and you can get service anywhere.
This is called "Spot Delivery" or "Yo-yo scam" and car dealers have been doing it for decades. Every new car I planned on buying, I was allowed to drive it home same day before financing was secured. It sometimes took weeks to get financing approved. I seriously doubt that dealerships will change this tactic because they sell so many cars this way and one case isn't going to scare them. Plus they carry high insurance limits for situations like this.
In BC where this happened, the province handles the insurance. This means that the title, registration, and proof of insurance are all on one piece of paper along with the owner's name. No way legally just switch the plate to another vehicle.
This can make importing a vehicle into Washington State resemble "Who's on First". "Let me see the title", "OK." "Let me see the registration". "OK". "No, that's the title". "It's both". "It can''t be both. Where's the proof of insurance?" "OK". "No, that's the title". Continue for 20 minutes, talk to a supervisor, etc.
But isn’t the woman responsible for handing an impaired driver the keys???
Only the second non-selfish comment I’ve seen so far. Thank you. The other being someone asking, why are we not talking about the guy only getting three years for murder and attempted murder…
I work at a dealership... this is a common thing to hook the customer by dealerships .... drive it over the weekend ...but they have to provide a valid insurance before they can drive it off the lot ... at least at our dealership...but a dealership is the owner until the title is signed by all parties
Have bought dozens of vehicles. Two and four wheels. Thankfully never happened to me. too, I would never take possession without the docs complete
11:52 How does the outcome make complete sense? We established that the dealership owned the vehicle, but I missed how owning the vehicle makes them liable for anything that is done with it. That's the KEY here.
OK so I get this in this case. Imagine a truck driver for Amazon drives negligently and kills someone. The driver goes to prison and has to pay out damages. Amazon also has to pay out damages because it was their driver & their car. They could've taken more precautions/whatever thus they're liable.
In this case, it's the dealership's car. Still, I don't fully understand it, so if someone could please explain this, from the point of view of the society, what is this achieving? Other than punishing severely the dealership for fudging paperwork and neglecting the proper process
"If you give someone permission to drive your vehicle, you as the vehicle owner are responsible for what they do with it."@@PGspeed88
Are they? I don't think that's the law in most places...You can even test drive a car with no intention of buying, does that make dealers liable for anything test drivers do? Are rental companies liable for anything renters do? You're making an absurd claim that isn't backed by any law I've heard of....and I didn't hear any such law mentioned in the video, nor have I seen any such law in the comments, nor have I heard of such a law in real life.
@@OneWheelMan Rental....The renter has a contract to assume liability for the car including insurance....
test drive....I have yet to see a dealer allow a test drive off their property without a dealer representative riding along.
ownership is responsibility.
If the dealer owns the vehicle its on there dealer insurance
@@OneWheelManI'm in Canada and that is definitely how it works here. My mother in law had her own vehicle with insurance. For some reason, my wife gave her the keys to our car and she was in an accident. My insurance paid for the repairs. If my insurance company wanted, they could have tried suing her and her insurance.
Where I am in Ontario Canada the plate must be registered to the car before you can drive a car with that plate. I have bought a few cars and have never been allowed to take a car home without financing being approved.
They do it here hoping you'll buy it
some years back, I found out in the most interesting way, that in New Mexico, if you have your car registered with a vanity license plate (I.E. custom message on the plate) state law allows you to remove the plate from the vehicle it is registered to, and temporarily place it on another vehicle, you have legal possession of, without any paperwork filed at all.
(to summarize, the owner had transferred his plates from his car to his SUV for a road trip, and the SUV was carjacked and involved in a crash)
@@kenbrown2808 That is because, according to the state, you actually own the plate, while the regular one is state property. Thus they allow you to move the plate from one vehicle you own, to another vehicle you also own, and as you own the plates this is allowed. Fines will still accrue to the owner of the vehicle as the plates do identify them still.
@@SeanBZA but it makes it a little awkward, when you run the plate in a different state, and it comes back to a different vehicle.
@@kenbrown2808 When it is a speed camera they do not bother to verify make and model matches before the fine is sent. Pull over they will simply verify owner matches ID. Gotten enough tickets in the post where the vehicle shown only has matching plates, and it was wrong make, model and colour. Enough so that the ticket also has a section where you get a link to download an affidavit that you send, where you disclaim the ticket.
I've been watching your videos for a few years now, this year decided to start my own used car dealership (still in process of starting up, have location, just waiting on getting my dealers license). Enjoy the content, thanks for the legal insight and entertainment. To my understanding, in Wisconsin, if the financing isn't finalized - the dealership still owns the vehicle. Dealer plates stay on the vehicle, and if the dealer allows the vehicle to be taken home - it is looked at as a test ride. I have been offered this on trade-ins - swap your car and take this one home for the day/weekend - however not while waiting on financing.
Thanks Steve 😊👍
The bit you said at the end about Canadien and American money being different reminds me about a skit on the Red Green show. Red and his nephew entered into a contest with an American team. Each team had to pay something like $1000 check to enter. The contest ended being a draw. So, The teams received the other teams check. The nephew commented about how they came out even. Red said we got $1000 American so we're ahead.
In Ohio, they can take your plate(s) off and put them on the car you purchase and it's perfectly legal for the period it takes, up to 45 days, to get the paperwork done. This eliminates the need for a temp-tag. However, you need to have the completed paperwork first and you must have a copy in the vehicle, along with an updated insurance card, in the car if pulled over.
Years ago I went to visit friends in a town about 20 miles from where I lived. They were busy when I arrived so I decided to stop by the Jeep dealer and pick up a brochure for the new 2002 liberty. My local Jeep dealer was a joke. I went in looking for a brochure and ended up buying a Jeep. They had exactly what I wanted on the showroom floor. I had excellent credit and put cash down also. They were going to let me drive it home then and there but I said I dont want to take it till I own it and I had to get my truck home. Maybe I dodged a bullet years ago . When I got back to my friends place they asked if I got the brochure , I said "no but I bought a Jeep"
This sounds like the perfect case where a good lawyer was crucial and why they are absolutely necessary! ❤
Yup a lawyer has to find the guy with the most money to somehow make it their fault.
Justice only for the rich.
I just purchased a care a few weeks ago. The dealer required a certified or bank check and proof of insurance for the exact car purchased. The insurance company issued a binding letter and insurance card that only took effect upon closing. The bank wanted the purchase agreement, window sticker, and proof of insurance. All the documents were electronic except for the check. No one took anyone's word or said, "We'll figure that out later".
Sounds like a good old "I'll Fly If You Buy" situation...with the pilote, of course, being drunk.
From Ontario, CAN here. I bought a used van in August (for cash), from a dealership. The entire transaction took 1hr and I drove away with a plated vehicle. :)
In Canada they do not have titles for cars, a bill of sale and a previous owners registration sign off transferring ownership is taken to the motor vehicle registry office transferring your old plates to the new vehicle or get new plates or a paper In Transit.
The woman who let the drunk drive the jeep must be liable.
If you have ever worked at a dealership, you know that the dealership owners, finance companies, all the way down to the service departments are as crooked as a barrel of snakes.
Deals will ALWAYS "spot deliver" a car without financing in place because they want to "de-horse" the buyer by taking away his current car and force commit the buyer to continue with the transaction.
This is such horse 💩💩💩💩💩💩. The dealership should not have any part of the suit as its purely a money grab from them. The only guilty parties should be the man driving. They dealership played no part in the accident.
That is not how the law works. The owner of the vehicle is also liable. When my sons started to drive I took out an umbrella insurance policy to protect me. Fortunately my three sons are good drivers.
Good Lord! That guy shouldn't have been driving that day, but he's not the only issue. The dealership should NOT have let that Jeep out of their sight until the paperwork was fully processed.
I have had a few different insurance companies cover my farm vehicles. I have called dozens of times over the years to check coverage for a newly acquired vehicle and every different company, some were well known and some were not (like Rain and Hail), but they all had 30 days grace coverage as long as all vehicles were insured by them. Is this not true in BC?
I can't watch this video with my ad blocker. There are too many ads.
If this were to happen in the Netherlands, the insurance company that insured the car at the moment of the crash would be liable for making sure the victim was compensated. If the insurance company feels something illegal has happened or otherwise something that shouldn't be covered by the insurance, they'll then turn around and demand the money from whoever did the thing (be it the dealership for letting a wrong person drive it, or the driver for the DUI), but either way the victim wouldn't have to sue (unless she disagreed with the insurance about the amount of money).
I have one question. Does the dealership bankroll the inventory, or is the inventory financed by a bank as are most dealerships. If a bank is financing the inventory, that bank is the true owner of that inventory, making the bank liable ?
They need to state in the purchase agreement that they the buyer is responsible.
This sounds like a nightmare for car rental companies too.
Something similar happened to me years back and the dealer had me sign a rental agreement which would be in effect until the financing would be in place. They also made a copy of my insurance and drivers license. The rental agreement itself was a no-charge rental, although I would be required to pay the rental if the financing fell through and not too mention they had my credit card information as well for the rental.
Yes the dealership messed up here, in not doing this, and thus the fault arrived at the dealership door, not the dealership insurance company. If they had gotten her to sign a rental agreement for the period, even at zero cost, the dealership insurance would have been the one liable for it.
The (potentially) no-cost rental agreement sounds like a good idea. It clearly establishes who is liable in case something unfortunate happens.
@@777CaptMark Yes, a simple easy document, which covers pretty much all this case, and also if the vehicle is stolen or has an accident in the interim time. Dealership should have this as part of the purchase documents, just fill it in with a zero day clause in the case financing is done before leaving, or if it was paid for in cash fully. Surprised there is not anything like this already, unless the dealership messed up, or they did not want to pay any costs for the extra insurance, say for vehicles sold on consignment.
Would have covered the one time i saw a sports car which had an incident getting on the transporter, where the one ramp was pulled loose by a little too much pedal application, leaving the vehicle balancing in the air, with one side on the ramp, and the other side floating in air, and hard on the edge of the trailer bed. Engine off, brakes on hard, as the driver did not want to change anything and drop it 1m to the ground, till they had gotten a high lift jack there, and chocks, to hold the dangling parts, and then use another to lift the front, and get it fully on the transporter. Did not want to guess who drew the short straw to phone the owner, as those were all sold on consignment.
In Canada, at least in the provinces where I've lived, the buyer has to go to the licensing office to get registered. You are permitted to use your old plates for 24 or 48 hours.
When I lived in BC, the plates stayed with the driver.🤔
I've NEVER heard someone holding onto a car for 9 days without financing! In fact once when we were new in town and we tried to buy a car, we were told the maximum time to hold a vehicle we didn't own was 3 days! On Sunday evening we got a call that said we didn't get approved for the vehicle we wanted...but they just happened to have a car on the lot we could have! (As a former car dealer I recognized their bait and switch game and therefore I told my husband we were going to their competition and see about getting a better deal!) We got the vehicle we actually wanted that day and therefore we returned to the trickster dealership and returned their vehicle!
What's gets me is that in the US car dealerships are open on a holiday, but the bank isn't so you can't get financianing.
Sounds like a game of "Who has the biggest pile of cash?"
No. That was a game "I guess we need a court to decide who even owns the car that moment and to what percentage."
Aka, normal things that happen in court.
How is who owns the car even relevant? It's the person driving it who killed someone, not the owner. It's possible to drive cars without owning them.. Where is the law that says the owner is liable for anything the driver does? I can rent a car, I can even test drive a car I don't own....does that make the OWNER liable for anything I do with the car? No. That's insanity.@@christopherg2347
You nailed it.
Everybody wants money when something bad happens to them. Nobody can just accept that shit happens to everybody.
@@Kangaroojack1986 And you don't get money without a good legal reason.
So that makes exactly 0 difference.
In Ontario (next door), plates are transferred (IF you already have them) to the purchased vehicle, and the buyer is responsible to go to a govt service centre to get the paperwork done for the plate transfer to a 'new' vehicle - which may include taxes if it's a used vehicle. After that, then you go and have insurance transferred (if already an insured driver), which is generally a phone call. None of which has to be done the same day. IIRC it's within ~7 business days of transaction. Never had to deal with financing, so 'ownership' was never an issue - as far as I can tell, IF there was a claimable incident between purchase and 'finalizing' paperwork that would be a dispute between you and your insurance co (you still have the insurance, but different car would change rates). ALL of this, of course, is reliant on you already having had plates for the vehicle AND valid insurance at the start.
Note: the govt paperwork ALSO includes all recall/repair notices issued for the vehicle AND all recorded incidents/claims/previous sales/owners of the vehicle.
Note 2: THREE AND A HALF YEARS FOR DEATH BY VEHICLE and all the other charges is insanely too short. Driver killed a cyclist in Toronto a few years ago, 3 months. IF it hadn't been for the community and the family, he wouldn't have even been charged since the cops continued to lie about WHO was at fault...hint, it was the driver who ran the red light...that the cops knew all along.
in b.c. canada if you own 2 cars one has a one plate and other dosn't have one the one that does motor blow up or not safe for the road. you can take the plate from that car to put in on the other car and drive it for 10 days,also you have plates from other vehicle and buy new or used vehicle you can use it for 10 days too.
Just 3 and a half years in prison???? That is why nothing will change. There are no consequences for people that drive like idiots.
I had a similar situation. Bought a low mileage vehicle off a lease. Safety check was expired, and i didn’t want to drive off the lot, and risk a traffic ticket. Dealer agreed to add on statement: ‘Dealer will be responsible for any ticket(s) for expired safety check’.
A very common practice in Oklahoma is the use of the UMVPC's spot delivery agreement in conjunction with - retail purchase agreement, buyer's guide, retail installment contract, security agreement and disclosure. The sale is contingent upon the dealer finding a buyer for the installment contract within so many days but the buyer is considered the owner and required insurance maintained.
Paid for or approved for a loan means nothing. Did the application for new title take place? PLUS this is a very good reason why liability insurance should follow the driver and not the car
I remember hearing Dr. Walter Williams describing a very good question... when someone would say that, for instance, a national park belonged to "all of us," the professor would reply okay, show me which piece is mine, because I want to sell it. Of course he would be told he couldn't sell his share, which meant that it wasn't his. So they hand you the keys to the car while the paperwork still isn't done, and tell you to come back. But meanwhile you get into an accident and somebody tragically dies. The dealership tries to insist that you own the car and therefore are liable. Might be a good place to ask the question, "Since I own it, I can sell it to someone else... right?"
I don't get why the owner has any responsibility for an accident caused by a 3rd party. So I can steal a car and crash it the owner has to pay my medical bills? If I rent a car and crash it is the rental company liable? If an airline stewardess slaps a passenger is Boeing responsible? This seems absurd.
This sounds like perfect BAR exam question!
When you think about this, Dealership seems to Always tells Customers to take Vehicle Home and we’ll get the Financing Finalized. BIG Mistake Legally. 🤪👎
In a world of common sense (may exist in another dimension) there is one and ONLY one person responsible for this terrible incident. Dragging in the uninvolved owner is not right.
Yep, I hate how this entire video is focused on who owns the car.....but fails to say how owning the car makes them liable for what the driver did. I can rent vehicles I don't own, does that make the owner liable for anything I do? Heck, I can even TEST DRIVE a vehicle I don't own with no agreement to buy it...does that make the owner liable if I kill someone with it?
@OneWheelMan while I get the sentiment the lady who got hit needs to be compensated for her losses, medical, death of sister and all. And because the dealer still owned the vehicle they bare most of the responsibility. It's more about the legal assessment of the situation vs the actual fault of the accident. But the dealer shouldn't be giving out vehicles unless they are sold.
This is a result of failure of Business operations.
I think it's also a matter of responsibility. As the person who owns the car, you can't lend it out recklessly. If she owned the car, she might have tried the defense of "He was fully sober when he left. He got drunk/high while he was out against my permission" and maybe it would be been a different verdict. If a person lends their car to someone they know is drunk, they are absolutely equally responsible as the driver. I'd even argue more responsible if the owner is sober because their decision making isn't impaired. Because the car dealer owned the car, they failed to take due care in who was driving the car. I bet you at no point did the salesman say "You are the only person allowed to drive this vehicle until the paperwork clears". They didn't care who was driving it, only who was paying for it.
I disagree. If you were a parent and your 16 year old killed someone while borrowing your car you are liable as well because you chose to lend them your vehicle and must assume the ultimate responsibility for it. The same logic can be applied to the dealership. Dealers are on the hook for the cars ultimately since it is their parent companies who bring the cars physically into the world.
Only 3 1/2 years in prison for killing someone and destroying the life of the other victim? I HATE CANADA!
By virtue of dealer actions, the woman became a permissive user and insured by dealer insurance. Beyond this, everything is legal strategy. In dealer business, DELIVERY of the vehicle completes a sale. Court ruling is correct ass the dealer failed to complete the sale on paper but affected delivery. SCARY how often this crap happens at franchise dealers.
No good deed goes unpunished.
You can transfer your plate from the old car to the new car if your old car is sold . It’s up to the car owner to register the plate transfer the ins within two weeks of the sale .
I’m in Alberta Canada
I'm in the UK. Here we have a document called a V5C. This may be the equivalent of Title in the US. It states that the named person on the V5C is "The registered keeper" and not the owner. The V5C actually says in very large letters "This document is not proof of ownership". The owner is the person who paid for the vehicle and has receipts/documentation saying that the person owns the car. Also in the UK, every car comes with it's own registration number and cannot be transferred to another vehicle. Any individual can buy a "private number" and reregister the vehicle under that number. 13:08 13:08 1:30 4:15
Until all the paperwork is signed, the dealers know you can back out. They know if you leave the lot, say at end of business, there is a VERY good chance you will have buyers remorse and NEVER come back. That is why they will take the risk and let you take the car home: "You have the car, it is yours, you HAVE to finish signing".
They use many different tactics to get you to sign every piece of paper to get that car. They hold your Drivers License hostage, they keep you there for HOURS to make you tired and more willing to sign just to GET IT OVER WITH. And yes, it is not uncommon to let you have the car for a few days to pressure you into thinking it is yours and you HAVE to finish signing. 9 days is quite a long time, most of the time it will be overnight, or a Friday to Monday thing.
I was a guard at a used car lot, so I have seen some of the things they do.
As a dealer here in Oz the only time I let a car go without payment was with finance approved. And it was supposed to be paid for by the broker the following day. THEN they changed their mind! By which time the buyer had put diesel in the tank,, of a petrol car.
So after that hard and fast NEVER allow the car to go until paid for.
I did also have a car paid for in full on a Saturday so we lent them a trade plate until Monday when we could register it. They disapeared getting various fines for months after. And we had reported the plate stolen Monday afternoon. For the trade plate we had a standard form to loan them, with return date and they were liable for all fines incurred.
In British Columbia (Canada) when you "buy" a car, you can use the plates (insurance) from your previous car for 10 days provided you have and carry proof that you sold or otherwise disposed of the car the plates came from - and - proof that you own the vehicle you put the plates on. It's basically a temporary transfer of insurance. Within 10 days you must register the purchase of the "new" car and/or insure it if you want to drive it on public roads. The problem here may be that the driver did not yet actually own the vehicle and so cannot legally slap his/her plates on it under this temporary registration/insurance scheme. Further it may be that the dealership assured the driver it was "fine" to use his existing plates. There is no mention of whether the vehicle the plates came from was actually sold or disposed of either.
This is why I don't loan out or let anyone drive my cars. I'm no lawyer but my common sense tells me an individual could be sued for this too.
Putting a plate on a car that has been issued to a different car is illegal.
Or at least it was when I was young and stupid...
Has anything changed that I don't know about?
And if it has then that would be an ideal law to take massive advantage if if I was so inclined from the point of view of a criminal.
For starters, the VIN on the plate WOULD NOT MATCH THE VIN ON THE VEHICLE...
With the economy uncertain, not buying a car right now makes sense for a few reasons.
Firstly, cars are costly, and in uncertain times, it's crucial to save money and keep your finances stable. Using public transport or rideshares can save you money.
Secondly, technology and car-sharing options offer convenient transport without the expenses of owning a car, like maintenance and insurance.
Moreover, fewer cars mean lower emissions, contributing to a greener planet. Choosing eco-friendly options supports global efforts to fight climate change.
Lastly, waiting lets you assess your finances when things stabilize. You can focus on saving, investing, or other essential needs like education or debts.
Being patient and evaluating your needs can lead to a wise and financially responsible decision about getting a car.
My financial advisor advises buying cars when interest rates and prices are low. However, he also cautions against it right now due to the hidden costs of car ownership, like insurance and maintenance. He helps me plan for these expenses and manages my portfolio to ensure financial stability. It's all about making strategic decisions and having a well-rounded financial plan.
Thank you for the valuable insights. I appreciate your detailed explanation, which helps me understand the reasoning behind the decision. It's clear that being mindful of financial stability, exploring alternative transportation options, and considering the environmental impact are crucial factors in making a well-informed choice about purchasing a car. Your perspective, coupled with the guidance of a knowledgeable financial advisor, would undoubtedly ensure a well-thought-out and financially responsible decision. Your approach highlights the importance of expert advice in navigating these financial considerations thoughtfully.
Your financial journey is truly inspiring, and I'm currently striving to achieve the goals you've reached. Could you please share some tips to help others learn and navigate their own paths to financial success? Your insights would be invaluable.
Samuel Peter Descovich that's whom I work with
I believe everyone could benefit from having a personal financial advisor. They can assist you in reaching your customized financial objectives at any point, ensuring you remain profitable.
As somebody with experience from dealing with ICBC (Insurance Company of British Columbia) insurance is tied to the vehicle. I had ICBC staff yell at me because they had to associate a driver's license to a license plate because I took a bad pic of the license plate. I was told in very specific terms that insurance belongs to the vehicle.
in my area, the standard business practice is that the insurance is specific to the vehicles and the drivers named in the policy, but it can be extended to temporary use by another driver, or the driver operating another vehicle for personal use, with permission from the owner. so if I borrow my brother's car, that is covered by both my and my brother's insurance. but if my boss asks me to drive his car to the store for something, he has to have insurance that specifies I can drive his car for work purposes.
Question: In previous videos you have stated that the vehicle is yours even if the financing falls through. It becomes the dealership that holds the note. Does that any bearing on this case?
In those cases, paperwork was filled out saying it was sold, and they tried to take it back when the bank wouldn't finance at that rate. In this case, less paperwork was finished, and they didn't tell the buyer it was finished.
A Ford dealer in Florida did the same thing to me I had the truck for a month and they couldn't figure out the paper work for The Lending so I had to bring it back I had a free truck for a month with their tag on it
Three and a half years for murder and attempted murder 0.o that's the real story here.
Thats Canada for you
Exactly this. And hard to find in this slew of selfish comments.
Also, one wonders what happened to the dogs.
I don't know if it's just selective memory, but why is it that the person at fault in really bad collision seems to usually be the one who walks away?
@DKNguyen3.1415 In this case, the victims were walking, and the guy was in a car. But i know what you mean
@@DKNguyen3.1415 People who are drunk or on drugs are usually much more relaxed, and don’t tense up as much in an accident. Edit: And these victims were walking…
It’s not your car until you have signed the contract and proven you have insurance on it, dealers have gotten desperate to make a sale..
Why does who owns the car matter? Again renter doesn’t own the rental car, is Hertz liable? If I let my friend borrow my car and he is covered by his insurance and a day later he gets in an accident, how could I be liable? The dealership let person x take it home, then person x chose to let person y drive the car without the knowledge of the dealer. If person y should’ve have known person was impaired, then I can see x and y being liable but not the dealership. Now if the dealership let an impaired person take the car, sure.
I had a driver who had a stroke driving a passenger van. He was supposed to turn left on 6th Street. He plowed into several cars at 8th street.
My insurance company denied the claim based on state law.
Turns out that I wasn’t liable either.
Luckily no one was seriously injured.
My driver lived but wasn’t Charged.
In BC specifically we only have one insurance company for the whole province. Usually at bigger dealerships they have an icbc rep that will set up your insurance and give you plates. Though when buying a used car there is a form you have to fill out to transfer the title before you get new plates. So regardless of financing or any other paper work that she signed, until the title transfer form is filled out and signed the previous owner is the owner. However if the car had insurance on it, it really should be icbc paying for the damages, but they recently made a change that payable damages for bodily harm cannot exceed $10k. Though they'll write off a $100k Mercedes without a second thought
Moving plates from one car to another would be fraud here, as you pay the registration fee when you get the plate. (Denmark)
So based on this case, if i am hit by someone driving a leased car or a rented car could i sue the leasing company or the rental company.
in new zealand the plates stay with the car unless they are personalised plates. we do a change of ownership online so it is instant, and done before the car even leaves the lot. there is no way you can drive or even park a car on the road without plates, they will fine you. plates are issued by a government agency, we do have dealer plates and they are used to take the car for inspection, because you cant get plates unless the car passes inspection
This is a horrible flashback for me and my family. I lost 2 family members to a similar incident. Way back in 1983 or 1984 in Florida.
As a former Alberta and British Columbia car salesperson, I have seen multiple cars "rolled" off of the lot, driven by people that had not yet been approved. It's a common tactic to instill the feelings of ownership into the purchaser. It is to prevent them leaving without that new automobile, and thus to prevent that potential buyer from shopping elsewhere. I have many, many times seen purchasers approved and made into buyers days after they had left the lot in the car. Human nature says that the purchaser will show off that shiny newness, and when confronted with needing a co-signer or to add substantially to the down payment, that person is far more likely to ask family or others for additional funds to finalize the transaction. Our GM or Sales Manager made the call after consulting with the finance manager. If it looked likely that the purchaser would get approved, at the end of the day, they decide if they want to "Roll" the person. I have had many deals completed days later, while the client was driving the new car. Some people just require very creative financing.
My local auto mechanic requires me to sign a release if a test drive off the lot is required for diagnostic purposes.
I really don't understand how the people who had nothing to do with the *_actual_* accident can be made to pay for it?
I guess in some cases it comes down to not leaving the victims suffering any more than they already have so any party with any amount of negligence that can be latched onto will do. I mean...I get it.
In a previous video, you mentioned that a purchase does not depend on whether or not the dealership can find financing. The dealership is on the hook to finance the transaction, and if they can't find an outside financer to pick up the debt, they can't call up the buyer and say "give us the car back." Is the difference here the little bit about the incomplete paperwork? Wouldn't the result have been different if the paperwork had been finalized, regardless of whether the dealership could get financing?
Judge ripped up the original contract thus putting the dealership as being the owner.
The contract probably had that the vehicle was theres, but dependent on the financing being completed. So if it fell through they probably would just repossess the vehicle
Look at all of the comments from people that haven't even listened to the pod cast yet.
Yeah, they are the people who watch the videos, looking for the $100 bill hidden on the set.
This is the most I’ve seen in a while
Every viewer & every comment benefits Steve’s channel. Two real smart moves Steve made were to hide the $100 bill & to let his friend, Canadian Robot Lady, do the intros & outros. I look for the bill, wait to hear the CRL outro & also pay close attention to the content but I seldom comment on that content. Steve’s going for 500K subscribers.
the $100 bill is on the right side of the low flying owls sign.
In a similar case, a mechanic at a dealership who didn't know how to drive a standard shift transmission drove a vehicle over another mechanic in the shop resulting in extensive injuries. The case was argued the owner of the car was responsible, and not the dealership. I don't know the outcome of that case.
Yeah,that’s insane.
There is also the issue of the dealership taking her car in as trade. What happened with her original car, does the dealership think that now they own that vehicle to do with as they please? We went a different route our last auto buying foray, we sold our vehicle to a company called Cheddar auto and got more than if we would have traded it in, then we banked that money to put towards a new vehicle. Found a vehicle right around the corner from home a Subaru, purchased from a Ford commercial truck dealership. We got a great financing deal with our credit union, we have never paid down a vehicle as fast as we were able to with this one. Payments are taken out every paycheck (split the large amount, basically making 13 payments instead of 12). They even worked with us when my husband fell off a ladder at work.
this isn't good. the dealership has nothing to do with it. this is opening the door for victims of firearm crime to file suit against firearm sellers and manufacturers. we often say that about gun crimes, "you don't sue ford when someone runs you over in an out-of-control mustang."
Ben Hundo's up on the wall, left side, with some low-flying owls
why does the fact that the dealer owned the car make them liable? so if I let my sister borrow my car and she fell asleep and hit someone, I'd be the one going to jail? why? in the scenario in this video, if the guy wasn't driving the dealers car he'd likely be driving some other car and falling asleep and running 2 people over. why is anyone other than the driver (and the drivers insurance) liable? how does this "make complete sense"?
You bring up a good point. If the dealership is negligent for not finishing the deal and is held liable, then the buyer is also negligent in not ensuring the driver was sober enough to drive the vehicle.
Also, just three years for murder? Crazy.
@@jayhache5609 how is the dealers "negligence" of not finishing the deal in anyway affect someone else running over another person? if they finished the deal and the buyer fully owned the vehicle, the guy would have still fell asleep and still hit the 2 people... I mean if they stole the car and hit someone, would the dealership still be liable since the dealership owned the vehicle?
Also hoping to get an answer from Mr. Lehto since he said this makes sense to him. Mr. Lehto can you explain why who owns the vehicle even matters?
@@boblast5582 If you don’t understand owner responsibility or negligence, there’s nothing I can do for you, brother.
this is why i am glad i am not a lawyer, because this seems like a giant mess, because the same argument could be made, that if a friend asked to use your car and that person drove it, but got into an accident, that the owner could be sued. even tho the owner wasn't driving it.
i mean i get it there is lots of actors at play, like if the dealer didn't let the car go there would be no accident, but if the person driving the car didn't go unconscious then there would be no accident.
I would think the dealership implying ownership would be the big difference than lending a vehicle to a friend. IOW, paying for their deceptive practices, which they should.
I live in Kentucky. Years ago I sold a motorcycle to a guy who never registered it in Indiana. I had to pay the taxes. I tried to call him but his girlfriend refused to admit she even knew him. I had a copy of the title sent to me and then I turned the title in as scrap. He tried calling me several times over the next two weeks. I found out later through a friend’s social media account that the police impounded the bike and he had to pay a bunch of money to get it back and registered. He was on SM ranting about how dirty is was for me to do that. He got called out and eventually deleted his facebook account.
They flip cars here in florida. They buy a car off Craigslist and never title it to themselves and then resell it to another party.
Went home with new SUV on Friday once, got pulled over because of dealer plate. Told me that they were having trouble on stolen cars with those plates at the time? Checked out I guess they let me go. I don’t think I’d do it again
This happened in miami, where a dodge dealer gave a test drive of a changer and they lost control high spped in rainy condition and killed a child on the side walk that was with his family. The dealer was sued
The Dealership still owned the vehicle, regardless of whose tags were on it. The contract was not completed and the dealership still legally owned the vehicle. The financing has to be completed and have guarantee of payment from the finance group before they can transfer it to the new owner.