I am a Christian that doesn’t go to church because I believe my soul is in better care sitting at home on the sabbath than milling with people in many churches. I know plenty of “bible” folks in my red county who can recite scripture but * hate with a capital H their neighbors *call the police whenever they have a negative feeling about some one *never think of others besides the fact that the world is dangerous *have lots and lots of guns When and if I ever go back to church - I want it to be a place that makes me feel better and helps me become better
That stucks you haven't been able to find a tribe of likeminded Christians at a church in your own community. I would assume their must be if even a small group, no? May God help us all and the very real problems especially inside the church (as you) cited.
gibrahn afrikah @beverleyjackson Right on Sista, i wholeheartedly agree with your inlook and practice with that. A lotta "Christians," including ppl in general, in all walks of life, can learn a good thing or two from your deep-seated Wisdom, Knowledge and Understanding. Peace&Love🌹💖🙏
I understand & get this so much. My sister said something perfect here recent and it is "Christian is NOT a denomination." Sometimes you just got to concentrate on & PROTECT your soul & relationship with GOD. It just isn't that same churches with the same message anymore. Do you, sis. God knows what's in your heart & how you came to A VERY POPULAR CONCLUSION. KEEP THE FAITH
I am shouting "EXACTLY EXACTLY EXACTLY EXACTLY" to Michael Steels and Tim Alberta. Everything they are saying here is so SPOT ON! EXACTLY EXACTLY EXACTLY. GOD please move on these churches that have fallen away from Christ. Please move on them. Please move on them and restore the spirituality that has gone missing. That Satan is winning this battle. PLEASE MOVE HOLY SPIRIT on the American Evangelical church.
..but why don't you see that these people, including the pastors, who are supposed to be guided and or perfected as good human beings by their religion are simply no better off, if not worse as individuals, within this supposedly righteous religious group? All these denominations use the .." we are imperfect"... just go to catholic confession.. or " I repent" mechanism that is always an excuse or an 'out' for your bad behavior . Think for yourself and use your own moral compass. Spare yourself the ridiculous idea that you need someone else or some religious dogma to tell you or teach you how to act. The entire discussion they are having proves that these people they are speaking about within the church are basically brainwashed into a twisted belief system yet they aren't questioning the validity of the need for the church or, more importantly, the efficacy of their teachings. They are both clearly describing a wholesale failure of ethics and morals within the congregations yet still implicitly buying into the whole proposition of any need for a religion in the first place because they are both so steeped in the concept/teaching/ dogma ... it seems so apparent to me, but for sure, anyone who questions religion in any way is always in for a world of condemnation and indignation .
@@rickwilson478 some of us do think for ourselves. A good church should stay out of politics. They have no business there. Unfortunately, many of us sin in some form or another. You can't tell me those who believe in no religion are always good people and never do wrong (sin)! Even in the church there are people who still do wrong. The idea is that we ask for forgiveness AND STOP committing that so-called sin. It is important for believers to find a good Bible teaching church where their leaders are held accountable. Churches are just run by people. And people are human and make mistakes. No one is perfect. We need to watch how we act towards others. Those who don't believe in any God, how did they learn right from wrong? I learned by having parents who believe and what we were taught in church.
@juneramirez8580 hi, thank you for your kind response. I think I understand a faith based morality (maybe not), but I respectfully disagree that anyone outside of whatever religion hasn't the ability to discern right from wrong or to be taught so by , say, atheist parents. I can remember when my catholic parents sent me to catholic school first grade and when they started describing that we were supposed to be born imperfect or as sinners and we needed to be saved or "fixed" somehow by the church or god himself (why not herself, if I dare) ... it just didn't make any sense to my six year old self. Then the Sisters of Mercy talked about the people/children who weren't catholic who wouldn't be "saved" and, worse yet, would burn in hell .... that is what they told us, and it just made/makes no sense to me and seemed downright cruel and, sorry but kind of daft. Your acknowledgment that the churches are run by people and people are imperfect, to me, makes my point that there's plenty of reason to take a pass on the whole idea of it. The last time a Roman Catholic Pope was elected they described the whole voting process on a long National Public Radio broadcast and part of the explanation stated a series of processes with the ballots themselves that attempted to ensure there isn't cheating by the cardinals who are voting and, mind you, it is those same cardinals who are voting who are all eligible to be the next supposedly infallible papal leader of the church...and the broadcaster didn't even point out the ridiculousness of this fact! I am pointing fingers at the Roman Catholic church, and I don't know your faith, but to me, the denominations/sects/religions all function based on contradictory principles, one of which is the universal belief that if the individual isn't following our particular religion then that individual is not "saved". The whole idea that we have to be saved ( ? from ourselves? ) is contradictory. I am not saying that there aren't evil people, but I don't think anyone needs religion to be moral and a positive influence .
As a non-evangelical resident of deep red east Texas (djt territory), with a plethora of evangelical Christian relatives (blood & in-law), I just wanted to let you know how much I enjoyed this episode. It's good to know there are still some normal Christians out there.
Evangelical used to simply mean someone who's willing to/does spread the Good News. Anyway, that must be pretty rough to be drowning in Trumpers. I only have a few in my life & we just keep Trump talk off the table. And there's not many Trump flags blocking the view of other drivers. I feel for ya & grateful to be reminded how good I have it.
As a Canadian Christian Science woman who has a Trumper in the family - I am so very grateful for this podcast and you two gentleman bringing in your Christianity to discuss this very serious issue - it helped me understand - the cross vs the sword - and when you mentioned DT Jr saying 'what did turning turning the other cheek ever gain us' it all made sense. Have bought the book - I look forward to reading it. Thanks again for this podcast - it means a lot to me.
It means so much to all of us dedicated Christians who maintain our welcoming and non-judgmental Methodist Church communities....and I know so many other church communities who are defying this radical Evangelical element in our midst.
I went through this with my church over 25 years ago. Have felt hopeless ever since. The only comfort I held on to was something Jesus said “not all who say my name are mine”. For the first time in 25 years, I now feel some hope. Bless you both
I am a born again evangelical, former republican conservative leaning voter and a Never Trumper. I appreciate Tim so much. He is a wonderful example of what Christian integrity looks and sounds like. Thank you, Tim I am praying for you. Jerry Falwell Sr ("The Moral Majority"), Franklin Graham and "NAR Evangelical Dominism" has over many years helped corrupt the evangelical church with politics. We Protestant Evangelicals need to weed and pray out this corruption out of the Church and get back to glorifying God and making disciples of Jesus Christ and only Him. Not DT!!! I hope this is encouraging to you.
Decided to share an abridged version. The full history is simply shocking and actually criminal. At an altar call, a man came to the front and admitted his sins of sexually molesting his toddler son. The church became ecstatic. I’m not being hyperbolic. People rushed to the front to endorse him for being such an honest sinner… I looked to his wife who was about three rows in front of me. She didn’t move. I left my seat and went to her. She looked as though she was carved out of ice. She was so frozen. I cuddled her. No one else came near her, they were all surrounding her husband. A few weeks later, shit I don’t want to get into it by text. I simply left the church
This episode was so important. As a believer in Jesus, and having to go solo for the past 8 years, always viewed with suspicion, tolerated as naive among my peers, but attacked as an enemy when Trump was elected 2016. How anyone professing faith in Christ and surrendering all truth to Clownigula, just deeply disillusioned me. Like thinking was a crime, like asking questions made me suspect, being called Marxist and Baby killer, and throwing Christ's words to the ground was alarming. I began a deep dive to find a way to connect the dots. What I discovered was a false Christ, carefully crafted over the decades, to deceive and delude the gullible church goers. I just purchased Tim Alberta' s newest book. It was sold out when I first sought to buy it, which delighted me. The word is getting out. The real Jesus would again be crucified by these imposters. I am not referring to the average church goers, who have fed on Fox Noise for years, but those who have been shaping the narrative for decades to bring us to this point. I despised Ronald Reagan, Bush #1, #2, disgusted me, rejected the self centered prosperity gospel, the Dominionist theology, the push into a political party as representing Jesus Kingdom, and so much more. Trump is contemptible. He is the little horn with the big boastful words, spoken of in Daniel Ch.7&9. It is not a pretty scenario. I pray daily that the real Jesus will roar from heaven and shut this grotesque sociopath up for good. People don't read History. They are easily manipulated by fear. Jesus says repeatedly " Fear Not " The American church had no clue what persecution looks like. Peter was crucified upside down. It cost Christ's followers to followers everything to serve Him. Being called Marxist and Baby killer was nothing. His temptation in the wilderness hit all the points the American church has fallen for. Read true History, read the Bible, look at His words through the lense of love and grace, and mercy. Thank you for adding your experience and understanding of the scriptures to the other books on the subject of this apostasy. God bless. Keep speaking out. What we are seeing was done during the years where Adolf Hitler and the state church merged to form fascism. The beast with the fatal head wound come back to life, Rev. Ch.13. Dear God, open your people's eyes.
Thank you for addressing everything that I have been contemplating for several years. It started with Jerry Falwell's "Moral Majority." and a person in my church , I was attending, signing everyone up for Reagan during the church service. And conservatives interested in Rushdoony's Christian Reconstructionism, going back to the Old Testament implementing it in our politics/country. I believe most evangelical's that love Trump are unbelievers mocking the very faith they purport to believe in. Trump can have a friendship with a child sex trafficer Jeffrey Epstein for 15 years, and did visit his "Lolita Island." His narcissism, self-aggrandizement, his lies, his anti-knowledge: refusing to read;having his assistants to tell him the news.6 bankrupsies,his blasphemous marketing his own bible to raise money for his campaign. And the sacriligous mega churches who have destroyed Christianity by their blatant evil intentions for a business to fleece people for their multi-millions, private planes, mansions,etc. The evangelicals want a theocracy. Jesus NEVER preached politics. Christians have adopted modernism, and have rejected the truths of Scripture and sound doctrine
Hoping that the Weimar resemblance ends soon, so afraid of what came next happening over again - atavistic violent urges are being nurtured and it is scary
I have lost track of the number of times when I have argued with conservatives that "separation of church and state", as described by JFK in a speech, is EXACTLY what the First Amendment of the Constitution is all about. Thank you for backup support!
My Great-grandparents (CHRISTIANS) told my family this for five (5) generations - what has been "roaring" behind closed doors for YEARS, does not reflect GOD/JESUS/LOVE! I thank GOD for exposing their "hearts." 🙏❤🙏 They "try" to mask it as "doing good!" We cannot love GOD and hate our neighbors! Light and darkness cannot dwell in the same place. Do not be fooled. . . . ❤
Me too, I just don't understand what Bible they read. I pray every day for God to help me stay in his word an stay focused on separating my faith and politics
@@leee646 I remember when we were all wearing wrist bands that said "what would Jesus do"? It meant that we should first think, would that be an action Jesus would do? The MAGA republicans do not follow Jesus. They don't understand the complexity of following Jesus and Father God. They use his name just to get followers that do not follow the Bible any longer. They have forgotten what Jesus has taught and replaced it with their own fears, greed and closed minds. True Christians must get out there and speak the true word so it isn't forgotten and overruled by MAGA.
I enjoyed knowing I am not alone in this world. Its a lonely place until you listen to you guys and read the inspiring comments. Thank you all for some encouragement and hope. Merry Christmas
You are definitely not alone. We're a rarity, but those of us who SERVE JESUS, VS making up some santa-in- the -sky, false version of Jesus whom we demand serve US, still exist. Those of us who refuse to replace Jesus with Trump still exist. We are a rarity, but we exist. I often think: Manoman, if that many ppl , in USA alone, got swept away by djt, I shudder to think how many will be fooled by THEEEE anti-Christ. 😔.
@@Anabee3 Amen. It seems as though respected believers have sold their soul to djt. It's is so incredibly sad. I pray for them. Have you seen the ad he made called " And God made Trump. Blaspheme.
@@Anabee3I hear you! Warm greetings from Australia 🦘 I could never vote for Trump. He is evil. The whole Trump show baffles me, quite frankly. I could understand (well, not really) when people voted for him the first time - "novelty" factor. But here we are in 2024 and there are still these mad Trumpers and the possibility he could get into power again. Crazy! A real threat to world security and peace. And Trump has absolutely no faith or religious conviction. A FRAUD in more ways than one. We know the real TRUTH because we live it. Jesus is the real KING.
@@Anabee3and yes, I agree! Most people will not be a match for the Anti-Christ. Mind you, alot of people thought the Covid vaccine was the Mark of the Beast which tells me that ALOT of people do not know their Bible. The world will have plenty of warning in the first 3.5 years during the Anti-Christ's reign (the two witnesses). Will the world listen?
Jefferson was also a hypocrite, guilty of incest because Sally hemings was his wife's sister and a child molester because Hemmings was a child when he began his shit-situationship w/Hemmings.
Deists believed: GOD made (The) (world), (and) (every thing) in (it), (and) (then) let humankind handle (every thing). Ireland got Europe out from (the) Dark Ages. (They), (and their folk culture/folk music) might get America out from (our) polarized, political situations).
I don't think either are Bible believing in any serious way but one is less arrogant while the other is more traditional on morality (but i don't think from a place of conviction).
You cannot take this moment for granted during this crazy time!! I always appreciate a moment of decency, critical thinking skills, and intellectualism… Thank you for the Christmas hope!!
That would work in an ideal world. Unfortunately, that is not this reality. We didn't win WWII by kindness. We didn't free any black slaves in the US via kindness. on an individual level, if one can leverage a personal relationship, kindness might work. Some people respond better to cruelty. Not everybody is like you. Think of identical twins. Even if they are extremely similar, they are still not the same person. They are two different people. If you know them, you can tell instantly which one is which. On a societal level, it's different. At that point, if you're not fighting the abusers, you're telling everybody that the abused do not deserve to be or feel safe. Why do you think the right wingers demonize the left so much? Why do they target marginalized groups so much? They're easy to bully. They're easy to sacrifice. In contrast, the left tends to attack the big guy who is causing the problems. The left tends to structuralize their thinking and thus, remove the onus of choosing to be humane from the typical conservative. In other words, the left refuses to condemn the right for their monstrousness. There's always an excuse ... much like the bully's mother saying "My son is just misunderstood". Oh... and the right never really self-reflect so there's no real hope for self-improvement. To get them to think, they must be shocked into it and most people don't have the ability to be that cruel to others.. even to the conservatives. I guarantee that if conservative voters were enslaved and suffered decades of Jim Crow, they'd understand finally, something of the black American experience. They might even suddenly understand why one must not honor the confederacy. But nobody is seriously working to enslave the conservatives. Instead... most of us are hoping they just die and leave us to fix what they broke. Yeah.. in a kind world, maybe this would work. But when I look at how conservatives are motivated, it's always via cruelty and fear. That's what they like. They're like fish in water when it comes to bullying somebody. They can't handle being nice to an outgroup member. they really really hate other people. (and yeah... I do know them. It's because I know them that I've written conservatives off. Familiarity has taught me contempt. My problem is that I'm always thinking.. If I weren't me, would you be this nice? They already will say I'm evil because I'm a Democrat. If I were gay or black or muslim, I don't think it would go over well.)
Thank you Tim for making the comment about the Russian Orthodox Church supporting the invasion of Ukraine. A woman I know from a women's Republican group came into my art booth at an event and was drawn to two of my art posters supporting Ukraine. She is a member of the Russian Orthodox Church in my community. She reacted with loud verbal hatred towards Ukraine, the people. their leaders and towards myself as an artist/calligrapher. She identifies as MAGA, a Trump supporter.
Where there is no vision (knowledge of God) the people perish. Our christian leaders are no longer seeking God. They think that money is more important.
I am a born again evangelical, former republican conservative leaning voter and a Never Trumper. I appreciate Tim so much. He is a wonderful example of what Christian integrity looks and sounds like. Thank you, Tim I am praying for you. Jerry Falwell Sr ("The Moral Majority"), Franklin Graham and "NAR Evangelical Dominism" has over many years helped corrupt the evangelical church with politics. We Protestant Evangelicals need to weed and pray out this corruption out of the Church and get back to glorifying God and making disciples of Jesus Christ and only Him. Not DT!!!
Thank you, gentlemen, for this very helpful discussion. As a lifelong follower of Christ, this new Evangelical “turn” of faith and Christ-like values and behaviors has had me so confused and alone in my own beliefs. Your message is so very important and appreciated. Thank you both.
I am a born again evangelical, former republican conservative leaning voter and a Never Trumper. I appreciate Tim so much. He is a wonderful example of what Christian integrity looks and sounds like. Thank you, Tim I am praying for you. Jerry Falwell Sr ("The Moral Majority"), Franklin Graham and "NAR Evangelical Dominism" has over many years helped corrupt the evangelical church with politics. We Protestant Evangelicals need to weed and pray out this corruption out of the Church and get back to glorifying God and making disciples of Jesus Christ and only Him. Not DT!!! You are not alone. I hope this is encouraging.
There are a lot more of us that seek to follow The Christ instead of these fear and haters who demands everyone has to think just like they believe or else ... fear and hate rules instead of real faith.
In the 90’s, I taught an adult Sunday School class. At that time, Rush Limbaugh held more sway with “Christians” than the Holy Spirit. Yep, I said it. Now, it’s Trump. Is this phenom the “falling away” predicted in 1st Thessalonians?
God bless you both, gentlemen - you have articulated what's been churning in my spirit for years now. The only problem is that the people who need to see and hear this, won't. Actually, upon reflection, maybe that isn't a problem - they just don't have ears to hear.
Because their orange jesus, not my words but theirs. Has taken their place in these United states. Now they are pushing out people of different faiths. Under the words of Donald Trump who says he was sent by God and now Mike Johnson who says he I'd the new moses. To lead here in the states? What is going to wake people up to all this blaspheming?
I was taught this 70 years ago in my little country Universalist Church. I have loved listening to this conversation. I listen to Alberta every chance I get. Thank you from the bottom of my heart.
Michael Steele, thank you for your program today. I did not want to listen again about the chaotic daily behavior of Trump. It was so refreshing to listen to your host Tim Alberta & you discuss a very important topic & discuss the condition of man’s moral set backs in relation to religious beliefs.
I have noticed that many of the people I know who are Christian nationalists busy themselves in the church but don't open their bibles much at all. They are too busy doing good deeds that they don't know what the Bible even says. There are hardly any in my church that carry their bibles with them to church even. My own pastor spoke before the congregation a couple weeks ago and said, "they are now calling us Christian Nationalists". I told my husband no they are not calling us ALL christian nationalist! There is a huge difference between being a Christian and a patriot and being a Christian Nationalist. I am a veteran and a Christian but I am not a Christian Nationalist. I am wrestling with talking to my pastor about this because I feel he us cultivating an atmosphere of us vs them over something he clearly doesn't understand. Those that I know who are Christian nationalist don't even know they are. They don't know what it means and might even fully embrace the title because it just sounds good. Well, evil can be wrapped in the name of Christ. In fact, Satan often imitates Christ as a form of deception.
Very profound, your comment "Giving unto Cesaer what belongs to Cesaer, giving unto God what belongs to God. Not giving unto Cesaer AND giving unto to Cesaer what belongs to God".
WOW! Having been raised in the Catholic Church and watching the Christian Congregants "move into the bleachers; cheering the lions", has been depressing & confusing.
I recently saw a video about PragherU. It looks like. A Talibangelical training camp where you can major in terrorism. America DID learn something in Afghanistan after all.
I feel that there will never be an absolutely clear dividing line between politics and religion. However, I also believe that in our country, we must keep seperation of church and state as clear as we possibly can. Its difficult, especially during certain times in our history. But, it's something we must be diligent about.
Wounderful podcast, Thank you both for giving us truth from Gods word. I've been directing some really hateful thoughts at our ex-presedent, I don't know God's plan for this nation, you two definitely gave me some food for thought. Thanks again for the reminder.
I so appreciated this conversation. As an evangelical, I was looking for Biblical teachings to confront some of my Trump loving Christian family and friends.
Like in Germany in the 1870's...out of the public square and into the closets...guess what that led to ? An embrace of modern day paganism in the 1920's and the rise of the ultimate pagan , Adolf Hitler. If Christians are not involved in the public arena, you will be getting a Hitler of your own. I am not advocating for a president who forces Christianity down everyone's throat...but at least one who can enforce and obey laws, look after the BEST interests of the people, and create the conditions for everyone to prosper. I just watched a video of muslims gathered together listening to a leader and chanting "Death to America" ...it was in DETROIT MICHIGAN ! Did the people of that faith have any influence in politics? Yes they did, because Biden removed his support of Israel so he could GET THEIR VOTE in the swing state of Michigan . And people are worried about Christian influences in the gov't???
I’ve been intrigued, watching and listening to Tim’s book tour interviews…and by far, this has been the most engaging one yet. Might we consider the role prosperity ministries have played by encouraging the current transactional culture of the Evangelical movement today?! Thanks so very much for such thoughtful observations and engrossing discussion guys.
I’m a retired pastor who is a progressive, so theologically I’m in a different place on some things. However, I really appreciated this discussion. I could relate to a lot of the experiences described. There might even be some hope for us progressives who have had similar struggles. Thank you.
Michael Steele😘 OF COURSE you know your bible stories!! You are the best!!! Tin Alberta🤗 My 5th interview I've watched and enjoyed (but I'm partial to MS EVERYDAY!). I'm a verified Amazon buyer of your book and it needed to be said and am thankful you are DOING YOUR JOB and bringing truth to light. God bless both of you and PLEASE keep doing the work for our Democracy.
Thanks so much for this. My grandmother gave me a red letter Bible when i was 10 years old. And she was the truest Christian I've ever known. At this point I don't go to church, because I don't feel welcome. I'm not sure how they recognize me as a red-letter Christian, but whenever I try to attend service I get a lot of dirty looks and feel very unwelcome.
@penpal6953 What do you mean by a "red letter Bible?" Not challenging or attacking; trying to learn so that I can coexist in our changing country. Thx.
@@denkerdunsmuir3370 A red letter Bible is one in which the words of Christ are printed in red. All other words are printed in black. I sincerely want to coexist, so God bless you!
Not sure where you live but I have found The Disciples of Christ church that I believe God led me to is very accepting of everyone. Their tag line “We are a movement for wholeness in a fractured world.”
THANK YOU!!!! I needed this so much! It is nice to see people of real standing in this country saying the things that you have said today! I just wish there was a way for those that are lost in the MAGA world to hear your words. They need to hear this.
Thank you, Michael for another wonderful interview!!! I’m still parsing my way through Tim’s book. And I’m grateful to hear it ends on a positive note! Thank you, again, sir! Merry Christmas to you and yours!!!
Americans do not hate or persecute religious people but fight for separation of church and state. Religious freedom but not religious authoritarianism.
It’s early missionaries who presented religion and country as patriotic and the pledge of allegiance in schools and residential schools cemented that connection
My kids were in public schools for a very long time. I had behavioral issues in them until I witnessed distant learning. I had the option to continue my son on distant learning instead of sending him back to school for a bit. In that time I saw how the children behaved in public schools. How little was taught because the teachers were being tormented. I even once called the principles office after witnessing one teacher doing her absolute best to bring order while roughly 6 kids REFUSED to be respectful. My son sitting there on the computer twiddling his thumbs for two days waiting for instruction. I told the office that this teacher is not at fault, she's simply out numbered and asked that they have someone stand outside her door and just listen to what she's dealing with. Very shortly I witnessed someone with authority sternly walk into that classroom and start calling students away. I realized then, my son needs to get out of public schools. His behavior improved very quickly after me taking him out. I do not agree we should have to send our kids to public schools to learn to socialize. That is the worst place to send a child to learn to respect others. My children are very respectful and hard working. One is very remorseful now of how he behaved towards his teachers in public schools. When children are surrounded by that behavior for HOURS a day without parents knowing it, parental discipline isn't going to help much in negating the fallout of that exposure.
And who would make that requirement ? The government has to stay out of our lives . It should scare you that kids bring guns to school and kill others .
Thank you Michael for mentioning the false prophets I have being waiting for all the podcasts for someone to say that Jesus Christ said beware of false prophets who come in my name it needs to be said again and again especially to the so call ministers of god I was a martyr in the the feed them to the lion but I believed a and still believe ❤
Thank you Michael and Tim for a wonderful presentation. The word “Nationalist Evangelicalism” is an oxymoron. For a start Jesus Christ came to redeem humanity in a Second Covenant to work in the vineyard for all people to show the love of the Father and to further reveal the Word of the Father for the redemption of all humanity. The great prayer of the Christian faith is the Doxology: Through Christ and with Christ and in Christ, in the unity of the Holy Spirit, all Christians give praise and glory to the Father. The greatest Theological Virtue is Love of God and of our neighbours. The Christian Faith is a history of God revealing Himself to all people in the person (“persona”) of Jesus, in the unity of the Holy Spirit, as three persons in one interpersonal relationship with the God as Father. The Ancient Greeks theatre used one actor wearing different masks known as a “persona” and “persona” became “person” in English and so we have three persons in one God, namely Father, creator, Son of the Father, in Christ, through the intimate and incarnated gift of the Father, and the Holy Spirit in relationships as ONE God in three persons. The three monotheistic religions share the revelation of God through Abraham: named as the Father of the Faiths of Judaism, with the early prophets; Christianity, and Muslimism, with its prophet Mohammed. If only we could all live in peace! 1:04:56
As an Atheist and not American, this conversation fascinated me! And i find Tim fascinating, i guess whats missong when it comes to trump and evangelism, i see them both as a cult, the evangelicals have their church indoctrinated them and trump has right wing media indoctrinate them. they have just both just joined cult. And because of the nature of a cult, their beliefs are not going to leave easily. Its fascinating and terrifying all at once!
I love this conversation between Tim Alberta and Michael Steele. It's sad what Christians in the US are evolving into. And it's scary. I'm afraid to even go to church anymore.
As a person who's been a theologian for more than 30 years, and who taught full-time in Religious Studies for a leading Roman Catholic university in the Great Lakes region, I want to thank you Michael and Tim for an extraordinarily compelling, relevant and timely conversation. This discussion is sorely needed at the national level among church leaders and theologians and lay people. Far too many "Christians" in America have sold their souls for MAGA and political power, giving themselves to The Father of Lies, as forewarned by Jesus in the Gospels, and there y making their followers twice as fit for the eternal fire as they've made themselves by embracing The Evil One and his empty promises. The Epistles, Acts and the Gospels all make it unequivocally clear, especially Matthew 25, that many will claim to love the Lord and claim discipleship at their personal judgement - yet Christ will condemn them, rebuke them and tell them, "Whatsoever you have done (or have not done) to the least of my brothers and sisters, so also you have done (or have not done) unto me. Now, away with you, Satan, for Amen, Amen, I do not know you. For I was a refugee, and you did not welcome me. I was hungry, and you did not feed me. Thirsty, and you gave me no drink. Naked, and you gave me no coat. In prison, and you did not visit me. Sick, and you did not care for me. Mourning, and you did not comfort me. Widowed and orphaned, and you did not provide for me. A worker, and you cheated my wages. ... Now, into the eternal fire with you, where you will wait, and curse, and grind and gnash your teeth forever, Satan." MAGA, Trumpism, Christian Nationalism - such things as these are not Christian but blasphemous perversions and mockeries of the Gospel and of all that is good and honorable and holy and righteous.
If we all click the thumbs up just below the video screen, that makes it more likely to be shown as a possible viewing without having to search for it.
Most atheists I know make better Christians and know more about the Bible than most Christians I’ve known. I used to be a Christian and there are a few parables I bring up that tick off Christians-Jesus in the Temple and the Good Samaritan.
It doesn't tick off real Christians, only those who pretend to be. Those FOLLOWERS of CHRIST know that those scriptures teach very important principles of the faith.💯
Agreed. Many times when first introduced to self-defined devout individuals they will trot out their litmus test questions to determine if I'm devout enough to their POV. I'm the wrong person to do this with because I was analytical as a child from a HBU educated, Southern very Catholic sent to Catholic schools taught by Irish Roman Catholic nuns and priests. I tell them I am unitarian which they rarely can process. Questions they ask are confusing to me like, have you been saved, or are you born again --:which really is language that means something different in almost every sect, church, etc. That fact alone is why our country was founded so no one dictator -- like King George of our revolutionary era -- couldn't shove rules, taxes, religion down our throats against our will and choice. I go there with them gently, but too often, their education is too thin to help in thinking through the discussion even when I base it in the Bible. I am very gentle in these discussions because I get that they are suspicious and maybe afraid and trying to secure for themselves that they are safe with me. I am just human, too, so their quest for certitude is not helped by contact with me; I live I the ambiguities of reality nuances of which only confuse those not yet taught to think for themselves based on facts, data and common sense. I look at this evangelical sectors with a sceptical eye because of its genesis in racist opposition to school integration via Brown decision 1954 and subsequent mid-20th century Civil rights movement. However, I share half traditional views with them and pray they will one day do their part to share half of modern views with me! Cooperation, compromise and conciliation go a long way toward a harmonious society!
I evolved from atheist to agnostic toothpaste because everything had to be proved. Then the humanist established themselves a Half block from my apartment. I attended 20 years and then my own nephew the president said he would have to kick me out so I quit. Intelligent they are but unprejudiced no. 2 on the board came to my place to say I was welcome. But until they don't exclude those who have experienced the supernatural I cannot go back. Nothing can happen unless it's natural but sometimes it's super.
Hi guys ive been a Christian since i was very young and gave my heart to Jesus when i was 17 i was saved and my dad who had promised God during WWll if God got him out of this he would work for Him dad said he ran from it he had been saved when i was 10 he became a preacher who seemed to be one of the first to preach on revelation almost like its time for this to be revealed. Hearing you guys talk language that sound like and is bibical is such a blessing in these trying times God Bless you for truth By the way Tim Albert your book is on my christmas list i bought one for my sister and my husband had my sister in law to buy me one My sister is buying her two sons you book for there christmas present and a cooy of the constitution. But we believe we are here to spread the Good News and win souls for the Lord but to be responsible and vote God bless you both for Truth in your words projected across America in these days of alternative facts. Vote Blue
WWJD? He wouldn't have a rifle or guns to kill people who did not think like him or look like him! That is surely not what Jesus would do. Etcetera. I am so glad you are discussing "this new MAGA Evangelism." Thank you!
Thank you for this Podcast, interview. Thank you for discussing relevant issues. An interesting discussion. Be safe, healthy and happy. God bless you 🙏 Thursday, January 18, 2024
You shall know them by their fruit. There are six things the LORD hates, seven that are detestable to him: 17 haughty eyes, a lying tongue, hands that shed innocent blood, 18 a heart that devises wicked schemes, feet that are quick to rush into evil, 19 a false witness who pours out lies and a man who stirs up dissension among brothers.
The Lord "hates?" Words like "Lord" and "love" partner; hate doesn't get a place at that table. Too often people attribute phrasing to God for emphasis that can be misleading. Idk I wasn't there, but I get the overall idea which makes these discussions so crucial right now. Wouldn't it be nice if someone like John Green started some short videos tovtranslate evangelical speak for the modern reader.
@@denkerdunsmuir3370 I think "hate" was used for those who were not of the same people/tribe/family. So, his brothers and sisters (family) are those who hear His words and follow them; that is, they love their neighbor, feed the hungry, etc. Those who do not do these things are CHOOSING to be not of His family.
This a great pcast You guys teaching the real word of God for the first time in many years I gain insight into how the people I sat in bible study with had moved away from from Christ. Luke2:14
An Evangelical Black girl originally from West Africa with a Jesus sign and brochures came up to me in the parking lot right before Xmas; "Have you heard the word of the Lord?" I go; "Hey, look. I grew up Presbyterian in Upstate NY. Our minister cheated on his wife with a church lady. Who was best friends with my Republican Parents for a decade plus. As I was being confirmed at 15. He got kicked out, and they hired a more liberal minister that didn't like Ronald Reagan at the time. So she stopped going and dragging us, her kids, to church because she was a Pat Buchanan Republican and didn't like his anti Reagan sermons. So that ended my religion experience. That's how Secular it is in the North East. Then I moved to Utah for the Skiing for a decade after college. I experienced first hand, very aggressively, how Indoctrinated men can become being taken to church at one week old. In a Fundamentalist Christian Environment. And it scared the HELL outta me! That's why I live in CA now. So,... Until our world's religions can prove their not so pathetically Patriarchal. And have women run religions, Share/contribute to power, I'm not interested in participating in these utterly archaic practices from the previous Millennia. This includes politics! This is the 21st Century. So Merry Xmas, and take care, ok!?"
Sadly this is where my family is ever since Trump came on the scene. They are totally emerged into false beliefs BECAUSE their pastor became a believer of Trump and his cult. I’m SHOCKED at their abandonment of Jesus’ teachings! They abandoned Jesus in favor of this horrible man. Jesus wept. 😢😞
Look at the Methodist church. What craziness. My sister left her United church to go to the one that has broken off because they do not want gay people married, as pastors, or breathing.
Thank you for doing this interview. I’ve been listening to the audio book and it is nice to put a face to the words and the voice. I agree wholeheartedly with the concepts discussed here. I’ve been somewhat of an outlier in my church because I haven’t embraced many of the concepts that represent the Christian Nationalist movement. The more I listen to interviews like this, the more I understand my own revulsion to MAGA.
Thanks for the information, I've been aware of this and trying to understand it so I'm so glad you're pointing it out,I can't wait to get the book and reading it
Yes he gave us ten things to do that we can not do? So Jesus broke it down to two things? Love the lord our GOD with all that you are. and to love your neighbors as your self. right? Matthew 22:37
Wow, at times listening to this, I am in tears. It is as if at age 65 I am suddenly part of the 'church' of which I no longer know who I am a part of. I know that this Christian nationalism is not of Jesus, but where do we go from here if alone with Jesus. Now I am hearing two men who are speaking what I have known in my heart for some time but I am not hearing from the church around me. They are either going radical or staying quiet. Thank you for the truth straight from God's Word.
Mr. Steele - Thanks for this conversation. I am a Christian who has been alienated from the curch for many years. I do not know how to changes I've seen in what I was taught in church about Christ and what seems to taught. I have not know how to talk with family and friends about how I've felt about this and this conversation will help me.
I'm listening from the Caribbean. I totally agree that the Christians mentioned in your Nation have not been reading God's Word. They are basically depending on what their Pastors say to them. The teachings of Jesus are all a believer need s to truly be a Kingdom person. 🙏
Michael is Steel Still along with Tim their continuity of Faith no matter wat the struggles of the day Our Hope is in the invisible and not the visible The true and abiding word of G-D
“It was miraculous. It was almost no trick at all, he saw, to turn vice into virtue and slander into truth, impotence into abstinence, arrogance into humility, plunder into philanthropy, thievery into honor, blasphemy into wisdom, brutality into patriotism, and sadism into justice. Anybody could do it; it required no brains at all. It merely required no character.” ― Joseph Heller, Catch-22
We live in the SF Bay Area. We go to a "Jesus is the Cornerstone" in everything kind of church. I don't know how it happened, but politics has never been discussed there. Still isn't. It is simply not talked about, it is checked at the door. Everyone I know at church is a person of good character. I'm so bugged by all of this that is going on now! I feel very hesitant to talk about it with anyone at church. Should I just break the ice with a trusted friend? Are we just lucky to be where we are? If that's the case, we can't ever move! Maybe Hawaii....good warm welcoming churches there.
All one needs to do is remember Newt Gingrich, Michelle Bachman, etc. How can they remember the founding documents, if they don't even read the Bible? I take it all the way back to the "pilgrims", it comes down to White Anglo-Saxon Protestants WASPs, even back in the 17th century. Think who they hate, even in Europe. WASPs is not a religious affiliation it is a gang affiliation.
I am a Christian that doesn’t go to church because I believe my soul is in better care sitting at home on the sabbath than milling with people in many churches. I know plenty of “bible” folks in my red county who can recite scripture but
* hate with a capital H their neighbors
*call the police whenever they have a negative feeling about some one
*never think of others besides the fact that the world is dangerous
*have lots and lots of guns
When and if I ever go back to church - I want it to be a place that makes me feel better and helps me become better
That stucks you haven't been able to find a tribe of likeminded Christians at a church in your own community. I would assume their must be if even a small group, no?
May God help us all and the very real problems especially inside the church (as you) cited.
gibrahn afrikah
@beverleyjackson
Right on Sista, i wholeheartedly agree with your inlook and practice with that. A lotta "Christians," including ppl in general, in all walks of life, can learn a good thing or two from your deep-seated Wisdom, Knowledge and Understanding.
Peace&Love🌹💖🙏
I understand & get this so much. My sister said something perfect here recent and it is "Christian is NOT a denomination." Sometimes you just got to concentrate on & PROTECT your soul & relationship with GOD. It just isn't that same churches with the same message anymore. Do you, sis. God knows what's in your heart & how you came to A VERY POPULAR CONCLUSION. KEEP THE FAITH
One more point.... Church should be the SHELTER from the storm, not the storm itself.
But if you want the church to change u must be a part of that change!!!!
I am shouting "EXACTLY EXACTLY EXACTLY EXACTLY" to Michael Steels and Tim Alberta. Everything they are saying here is so SPOT ON! EXACTLY EXACTLY EXACTLY. GOD please move on these churches that have fallen away from Christ. Please move on them. Please move on them and restore the spirituality that has gone missing. That Satan is winning this battle. PLEASE MOVE HOLY SPIRIT on the American Evangelical church.
Amen
..but why don't you see that these people, including the pastors, who are supposed to be guided and or perfected as good human beings by their religion are simply no better off, if not worse as individuals, within this supposedly righteous religious group? All these denominations use the .." we are imperfect"... just go to catholic confession.. or " I repent" mechanism that is always an excuse or an 'out' for your bad behavior . Think for yourself and use your own moral compass. Spare yourself the ridiculous idea that you need someone else or some religious dogma to tell you or teach you how to act. The entire discussion they are having proves that these people they are speaking about within the church are basically brainwashed into a twisted belief system yet they aren't questioning the validity of the need for the church or, more importantly, the efficacy of their teachings. They are both clearly describing a wholesale failure of ethics and morals within the congregations yet still implicitly buying into the whole proposition of any need for a religion in the first place because they are both so steeped in the concept/teaching/ dogma ... it seems so apparent to me, but for sure, anyone who questions religion in any way is always in for a world of condemnation and indignation .
Amen to the prayer!!!
@@rickwilson478 some of us do think for ourselves. A good church should stay out of politics. They have no business there. Unfortunately, many of us sin in some form or another. You can't tell me those who believe in no religion are always good people and never do wrong (sin)! Even in the church there are people who still do wrong. The idea is that we ask for forgiveness AND STOP committing that so-called sin. It is important for believers to find a good Bible teaching church where their leaders are held accountable. Churches are just run by people. And people are human and make mistakes. No one is perfect. We need to watch how we act towards others. Those who don't believe in any God, how did they learn right from wrong? I learned by having parents who believe and what we were taught in church.
@juneramirez8580 hi, thank you for your kind response. I think I understand a faith based morality (maybe not), but I respectfully disagree that anyone outside of whatever religion hasn't the ability to discern right from wrong or to be taught so by , say, atheist parents. I can remember when my catholic parents sent me to catholic school first grade and when they started describing that we were supposed to be born imperfect or as sinners and we needed to be saved or "fixed" somehow by the church or god himself (why not herself, if I dare) ... it just didn't make any sense to my six year old self. Then the Sisters of Mercy talked about the people/children who weren't catholic who wouldn't be "saved" and, worse yet, would burn in hell .... that is what they told us, and it just made/makes no sense to me and seemed downright cruel and, sorry but kind of daft. Your acknowledgment that the churches are run by people and people are imperfect, to me, makes my point that there's plenty of reason to take a pass on the whole idea of it. The last time a Roman Catholic Pope was elected they described the whole voting process on a long National Public Radio broadcast and part of the explanation stated a series of processes with the ballots themselves that attempted to ensure there isn't cheating by the cardinals who are voting and, mind you, it is those same cardinals who are voting who are all eligible to be the next supposedly infallible papal leader of the church...and the broadcaster didn't even point out the ridiculousness of this fact! I am pointing fingers at the Roman Catholic church, and I don't know your faith, but to me, the denominations/sects/religions all function based on contradictory principles, one of which is the universal belief that if the individual isn't following our particular religion then that individual is not "saved". The whole idea that we have to be saved ( ? from ourselves? ) is contradictory. I am not saying that there aren't evil people, but I don't think anyone needs religion to be moral and a positive influence .
As a non-evangelical resident of deep red east Texas (djt territory), with a plethora of evangelical Christian relatives (blood & in-law), I just wanted to let you know how much I enjoyed this episode. It's good to know there are still some normal Christians out there.
"SOME"
Evangelical used to simply mean someone who's willing to/does spread the Good News.
Anyway, that must be pretty rough to be drowning in Trumpers. I only have a few in my life & we just keep Trump talk off the table. And there's not many Trump flags blocking the view of other drivers. I feel for ya & grateful to be reminded how good I have it.
I believe in love and not hate….I learned that from the Bible. I learned about Hate from Donald Trump.
As a Canadian Christian Science woman who has a Trumper in the family - I am so very grateful for this podcast and you two gentleman bringing in your Christianity to discuss this very serious issue - it helped me understand - the cross vs the sword - and when you mentioned DT Jr saying 'what did turning turning the other cheek ever gain us' it all made sense. Have bought the book - I look forward to reading it. Thanks again for this podcast - it means a lot to me.
It means so much to all of us dedicated Christians who maintain our welcoming and non-judgmental Methodist Church communities....and I know so many other church communities who are defying this radical Evangelical element in our midst.
Fantastic and terrifying conversation. Zealots are terrifying. I bought the book. Thank you Michael and Tim.
I went through this with my church over 25 years ago. Have felt hopeless ever since. The only comfort I held on to was something Jesus said “not all who say my name are mine”. For the first time in 25 years, I now feel some hope. Bless you both
I am a born again evangelical, former republican conservative leaning voter and a Never Trumper. I appreciate Tim so much. He is a wonderful example of what Christian integrity looks and sounds like. Thank you, Tim I am praying for you.
Jerry Falwell Sr ("The Moral Majority"), Franklin Graham and "NAR Evangelical Dominism" has over many years helped corrupt the evangelical church with politics. We Protestant Evangelicals need to weed and pray out this corruption out of the Church and get back to glorifying God and making disciples of Jesus Christ and only Him. Not DT!!!
I hope this is encouraging to you.
Do you mind sharing what happened 25 years ago?
@@joannaquanttumphysics it might shock you though
Decided to share an abridged version. The full history is simply shocking and actually criminal.
At an altar call, a man came to the front and admitted his sins of sexually molesting his toddler son.
The church became ecstatic. I’m not being hyperbolic. People rushed to the front to endorse him for being such an honest sinner…
I looked to his wife who was about three rows in front of me. She didn’t move. I left my seat and went to her. She looked as though she was carved out of ice. She was so frozen. I cuddled her. No one else came near her, they were all surrounding her husband.
A few weeks later, shit I don’t want to get into it by text.
I simply left the church
Absolutely disgusting
This episode was so important. As a believer in Jesus, and having to go solo for the past 8 years, always viewed with suspicion, tolerated as naive among my peers, but attacked as an enemy when Trump was elected 2016. How anyone professing faith in Christ and surrendering all truth to Clownigula, just deeply disillusioned me. Like thinking was a crime, like asking questions made me suspect, being called Marxist and Baby killer, and throwing Christ's words to the ground was alarming. I began a deep dive to find a way to connect the dots. What I discovered was a false Christ, carefully crafted over the decades, to deceive and delude the gullible church goers. I just purchased Tim Alberta' s newest book. It was sold out when I first sought to buy it, which delighted me. The word is getting out. The real Jesus would again be crucified by these imposters. I am not referring to the average church goers, who have fed on Fox Noise for years, but those who have been shaping the narrative for decades to bring us to this point. I despised Ronald Reagan, Bush #1, #2, disgusted me, rejected the self centered prosperity gospel, the Dominionist theology, the push into a political party as representing Jesus Kingdom, and so much more. Trump is contemptible. He is the little horn with the big boastful words, spoken of in Daniel Ch.7&9. It is not a pretty scenario. I pray daily that the real Jesus will roar from heaven and shut this grotesque sociopath up for good. People don't read History. They are easily manipulated by fear. Jesus says repeatedly " Fear Not " The American church had no clue what persecution looks like. Peter was crucified upside down. It cost Christ's followers to followers everything to serve Him. Being called Marxist and Baby killer was nothing. His temptation in the wilderness hit all the points the American church has fallen for. Read true History, read the Bible, look at His words through the lense of love and grace, and mercy. Thank you for adding your experience and understanding of the scriptures to the other books on the subject of this apostasy. God bless. Keep speaking out. What we are seeing was done during the years where Adolf Hitler and the state church merged to form fascism. The beast with the fatal head wound come back to life, Rev. Ch.13. Dear God, open your people's eyes.
Thank you for addressing everything that I have been contemplating for several years. It started with Jerry Falwell's "Moral Majority." and a person in my church , I was attending, signing everyone up for Reagan during the church service. And conservatives interested in Rushdoony's Christian Reconstructionism, going back to the Old Testament implementing it in our politics/country. I believe most evangelical's that love Trump are unbelievers mocking the very faith they purport to believe in. Trump can have a friendship with a child sex trafficer Jeffrey Epstein for 15 years, and did visit his "Lolita Island." His narcissism, self-aggrandizement, his lies, his anti-knowledge: refusing to read;having his assistants to tell him the news.6 bankrupsies,his blasphemous marketing his own bible to raise money for his campaign. And the sacriligous mega churches who have destroyed Christianity by their blatant evil intentions for a business to fleece people for their multi-millions, private planes, mansions,etc. The evangelicals want a theocracy. Jesus NEVER preached politics. Christians have adopted modernism, and have rejected the truths of Scripture and sound doctrine
Hoping that the Weimar resemblance ends soon, so afraid of what came next happening over again - atavistic violent urges are being nurtured and it is scary
I have lost track of the number of times when I have argued with conservatives that "separation of church and state", as described by JFK in a speech, is EXACTLY what the First Amendment of the Constitution is all about. Thank you for backup support!
Just out there doing THE LORD'S WORK, aren't you?!?!? May HE keep you safe & keep your zingers tight!! GO FORTH & SAVE OUR DEMOCRACY, good dude!!
My Great-grandparents (CHRISTIANS) told my family this for five (5) generations - what has been "roaring" behind closed doors for YEARS, does not reflect GOD/JESUS/LOVE! I thank GOD for exposing their "hearts." 🙏❤🙏 They "try" to mask it as "doing good!" We cannot love GOD and hate our neighbors! Light and darkness cannot dwell in the same place. Do not be fooled. . . . ❤
I really enjoyed this convo as an Evangelical that left the church but still calls Jesus my Master.
That's what a Real Christian would say, the problem are those who now call Trump messiah.
Me too, I just don't understand what Bible they read. I pray every day for God to help me stay in his word an stay focused on separating my faith and politics
@@gailwilliams2632We're supposed to want righteous, god-fearing leaders. A god-fearing person tries to mimic Jesus.
@@leee646 I remember when we were all wearing wrist bands that said "what would Jesus do"? It meant that we should first think, would that be an action Jesus would do? The MAGA republicans do not follow Jesus. They don't understand the complexity of following Jesus and Father God. They use his name just to get followers that do not follow the Bible any longer. They have forgotten what Jesus has taught and replaced it with their own fears, greed and closed minds. True Christians must get out there and speak the true word so it isn't forgotten and overruled by MAGA.
@@leee646yes, stating the obvious. People just don't seem to understand. They've gone stir crazy.
Wonderful conversation. Truth is beautiful.
Nothing more beautiful. Merry Christmas.
I enjoyed knowing I am not alone in this world. Its a lonely place until you listen to you guys and read the inspiring comments. Thank you all for some encouragement and hope. Merry Christmas
You are definitely not alone. We're a rarity, but those of us who SERVE JESUS, VS making up some santa-in- the -sky, false version of Jesus whom we demand serve US, still exist.
Those of us who refuse to replace Jesus with Trump still exist.
We are a rarity, but we exist.
I often think: Manoman, if that many ppl , in USA alone, got swept away by djt, I shudder to think how many will be fooled by THEEEE anti-Christ. 😔.
@@Anabee3 Amen. It seems as though respected believers have sold their soul to djt. It's is so incredibly sad. I pray for them. Have you seen the ad he made called " And God made Trump. Blaspheme.
@@Anabee3I hear you! Warm greetings from Australia 🦘 I could never vote for Trump. He is evil. The whole Trump show baffles me, quite frankly. I could understand (well, not really) when people voted for him the first time - "novelty" factor. But here we are in 2024 and there are still these mad Trumpers and the possibility he could get into power again. Crazy! A real threat to world security and peace. And Trump has absolutely no faith or religious conviction. A FRAUD in more ways than one. We know the real TRUTH because we live it. Jesus is the real KING.
@@Anabee3and yes, I agree! Most people will not be a match for the Anti-Christ. Mind you, alot of people thought the Covid vaccine was the Mark of the Beast which tells me that ALOT of people do not know their Bible. The world will have plenty of warning in the first 3.5 years during the Anti-Christ's reign (the two witnesses). Will the world listen?
We do not live in a Theocracy!! Separation of Church and State is critical.
Big Michael steel fan but This is the best ever! Everything I’ve been feeling but could not articulate. Thank you so much!
Jefferson was a deist, who believed in science and enlightenment.
On the day of the 2020 election, Biden went to mass and Trump went golfing.
I guess if you think you are the "new Jesus "..........
Biden is a true Christian. God Bless Joe Biden. VOTE BLUE!!!
Jefferson was also a hypocrite, guilty of incest because Sally hemings was his wife's sister and a child molester because Hemmings was a child when he began his shit-situationship w/Hemmings.
Deists believed: GOD made (The) (world), (and) (every thing) in (it), (and) (then) let humankind handle (every thing).
Ireland got Europe out from (the) Dark Ages. (They), (and their folk culture/folk music) might get America out from (our) polarized, political situations).
I don't think either are Bible believing in any serious way but one is less arrogant while the other is more traditional on morality (but i don't think from a place of conviction).
You cannot take this moment for granted during this crazy time!! I always appreciate a moment of decency, critical thinking skills, and intellectualism… Thank you for the Christmas hope!!
Great conversation - thank you both - kindness gets us further, than anger and resentment 😢
So true. Hateful so called Christians are an abomination to our Lord.
That would work in an ideal world. Unfortunately, that is not this reality. We didn't win WWII by kindness. We didn't free any black slaves in the US via kindness.
on an individual level, if one can leverage a personal relationship, kindness might work. Some people respond better to cruelty. Not everybody is like you. Think of identical twins. Even if they are extremely similar, they are still not the same person. They are two different people. If you know them, you can tell instantly which one is which.
On a societal level, it's different. At that point, if you're not fighting the abusers, you're telling everybody that the abused do not deserve to be or feel safe. Why do you think the right wingers demonize the left so much? Why do they target marginalized groups so much? They're easy to bully. They're easy to sacrifice. In contrast, the left tends to attack the big guy who is causing the problems. The left tends to structuralize their thinking and thus, remove the onus of choosing to be humane from the typical conservative. In other words, the left refuses to condemn the right for their monstrousness. There's always an excuse ... much like the bully's mother saying "My son is just misunderstood". Oh... and the right never really self-reflect so there's no real hope for self-improvement. To get them to think, they must be shocked into it and most people don't have the ability to be that cruel to others.. even to the conservatives. I guarantee that if conservative voters were enslaved and suffered decades of Jim Crow, they'd understand finally, something of the black American experience. They might even suddenly understand why one must not honor the confederacy. But nobody is seriously working to enslave the conservatives. Instead... most of us are hoping they just die and leave us to fix what they broke.
Yeah.. in a kind world, maybe this would work. But when I look at how conservatives are motivated, it's always via cruelty and fear. That's what they like. They're like fish in water when it comes to bullying somebody. They can't handle being nice to an outgroup member. they really really hate other people. (and yeah... I do know them. It's because I know them that I've written conservatives off. Familiarity has taught me contempt. My problem is that I'm always thinking.. If I weren't me, would you be this nice? They already will say I'm evil because I'm a Democrat. If I were gay or black or muslim, I don't think it would go over well.)
Absolutely!!!! (y)
What a breathe of fresh air... I've seen to many of my former evangelical friends turn to the dark side.
What a fascinating conversation between two articulate men. I really enjoyed listening to them.
Thank you Tim for making the comment about the Russian Orthodox Church supporting the invasion of Ukraine. A woman I know from a women's Republican group came into my art booth at an event and was drawn to two of my art posters supporting Ukraine. She is a member of the Russian Orthodox Church in my community. She reacted with loud verbal hatred towards Ukraine, the people. their leaders and towards myself as an artist/calligrapher. She identifies as MAGA, a Trump supporter.
Where there is no vision (knowledge of God) the people perish. Our christian leaders are no longer seeking God. They think that money is more important.
So very true.
They never were seeking God. 2000 years ago the Gnostics knew that religion is seeking Satan. And FYI as a liberal I'm no fan of the Gnostics.
Money and control!
I am a born again evangelical, former republican conservative leaning voter and a Never Trumper. I appreciate Tim so much. He is a wonderful example of what Christian integrity looks and sounds like. Thank you, Tim I am praying for you.
Jerry Falwell Sr ("The Moral Majority"), Franklin Graham and "NAR Evangelical Dominism" has over many years helped corrupt the evangelical church with politics. We Protestant Evangelicals need to weed and pray out this corruption out of the Church and get back to glorifying God and making disciples of Jesus Christ and only Him. Not DT!!!
So they don't really believe what they profess to believe, do they?
Thank you, gentlemen, for this very helpful discussion. As a lifelong follower of Christ, this new Evangelical “turn” of faith and Christ-like values and behaviors has had me so confused and alone in my own beliefs. Your message is so very important and appreciated. Thank you both.
I am a born again evangelical, former republican conservative leaning voter and a Never Trumper. I appreciate Tim so much. He is a wonderful example of what Christian integrity looks and sounds like. Thank you, Tim I am praying for you.
Jerry Falwell Sr ("The Moral Majority"), Franklin Graham and "NAR Evangelical Dominism" has over many years helped corrupt the evangelical church with politics. We Protestant Evangelicals need to weed and pray out this corruption out of the Church and get back to glorifying God and making disciples of Jesus Christ and only Him. Not DT!!!
You are not alone. I hope this is encouraging.
There are a lot more of us that seek to follow The Christ instead of these fear and haters who demands everyone has to think just like they believe or else ... fear and hate rules instead of real faith.
Spot On. I left the Republican Party because of Trump
In the 90’s, I taught an adult Sunday School class. At that time, Rush Limbaugh held more sway with “Christians” than the Holy Spirit. Yep, I said it. Now, it’s Trump. Is this phenom the “falling away” predicted in 1st Thessalonians?
Thank you, Michael 👍
As a Catholic l love Pope Francis. Wonderful to hear good words for him💯
I'm VOTING BLUE 🇺🇸💙.
God bless you!
You might want to consider voting third party since most blue people appeal to the sword, and they were warning against that in this video.
@@andrewgeissinger5242”most blue people appeal to the sword”?
In my view, that is grossly inaccurate.
God bless you both, gentlemen - you have articulated what's been churning in my spirit for years now. The only problem is that the people who need to see and hear this, won't. Actually, upon reflection, maybe that isn't a problem - they just don't have ears to hear.
Because their orange jesus, not my words but theirs. Has taken their place in these United states. Now they are pushing out people of different faiths. Under the words of Donald Trump who says he was sent by God and now Mike Johnson who says he I'd the new moses. To lead here in the states? What is going to wake people up to all this blaspheming?
I have heard Tim interviewed many times this past week, but this is the best and most complete exposition of what he is writing about. Thank you.
I was taught this 70 years ago in my little country Universalist Church. I have loved listening to this conversation. I listen to Alberta every chance I get. Thank you from the bottom of my heart.
Some evangelicals want to create an Christian society that mirrors the Taliban in Afghanistan.I don't think I'm overreacting.
I wish every Christian could listen to this podcast. Tim’s book is excellent. Great discussion gentlemen. Please don’t reelect tRump🙏
Thank you, Michael and Tim!!!
Great video, great discussion. Thank you Michael and Tim.
Michael Steele, thank you for your program today. I did not want to listen again about the chaotic daily behavior of Trump. It was so refreshing to listen to your host Tim Alberta & you discuss a very important topic & discuss the condition of man’s moral set backs in relation to religious beliefs.
Thank you both so much for this conversation. I have really enjoyed it. Merry Christmast to all!! 💙🇺🇲💙🇺🇲💙
Good Morning Brothers 🖐🏾😊it’s too early for my Martini so I added a splash of Bailey’s Irish Cream to my coffee. I’m here for this~ Let’s Go👈🏾
The problem is a lot of ignorance of the Bible and no pastors willing to stand against what's going on
I have noticed that many of the people I know who are Christian nationalists busy themselves in the church but don't open their bibles much at all. They are too busy doing good deeds that they don't know what the Bible even says. There are hardly any in my church that carry their bibles with them to church even. My own pastor spoke before the congregation a couple weeks ago and said, "they are now calling us Christian Nationalists". I told my husband no they are not calling us ALL christian nationalist! There is a huge difference between being a Christian and a patriot and being a Christian Nationalist. I am a veteran and a Christian but I am not a Christian Nationalist. I am wrestling with talking to my pastor about this because I feel he us cultivating an atmosphere of us vs them over something he clearly doesn't understand. Those that I know who are Christian nationalist don't even know they are. They don't know what it means and might even fully embrace the title because it just sounds good. Well, evil can be wrapped in the name of Christ. In fact, Satan often imitates Christ as a form of deception.
@@Kra-ri6fd Call them what they are...pharisees.
Very profound, your comment "Giving unto Cesaer what belongs to Cesaer, giving unto God what belongs to God. Not giving unto Cesaer AND giving unto to Cesaer what belongs to God".
WOW! Having been raised in the Catholic Church and watching the Christian Congregants "move into the bleachers; cheering the lions", has been depressing & confusing.
I recently saw a video about PragherU. It looks like. A Talibangelical training camp where you can major in terrorism. America DID learn something in Afghanistan after all.
Which video was that? I've watched a few PragerU videos from time to time (not lately though) and I never noticed anything like that.
Michael and Tim, Thank You!😊
I feel that there will never be an absolutely clear dividing line between politics and religion.
However, I also believe that in our country, we must keep seperation of
church and state as clear as we possibly can. Its difficult, especially during
certain times in our history. But, it's something we must be diligent about.
Wounderful podcast, Thank you both for giving us truth from Gods word. I've been directing some really hateful thoughts at our ex-presedent, I don't know God's plan for this nation, you two definitely gave me some food for thought. Thanks again for the reminder.
I so appreciated this conversation. As an evangelical, I was looking for Biblical teachings to confront some of my Trump loving Christian family and friends.
Uphold the Separation of Church and State and Our First Amendment Rights! Keep your faith within your family and church; Out of our government.
Like in Germany in the 1870's...out of the public square and into the closets...guess what that led to ? An embrace of modern day paganism in the 1920's and the rise of the ultimate pagan , Adolf Hitler. If Christians are not involved in the public arena, you will be getting a Hitler of your own. I am not advocating for a president who forces Christianity down everyone's throat...but at least one who can enforce and obey laws, look after the BEST interests of the people, and create the conditions for everyone to prosper. I just watched a video of muslims gathered together listening to a leader and chanting "Death to America" ...it was in DETROIT MICHIGAN ! Did the people of that faith have any influence in politics? Yes they did, because Biden removed his support of Israel so he could GET THEIR VOTE in the swing state of Michigan . And people are worried about Christian influences in the gov't???
I’ve been intrigued, watching and listening to Tim’s book tour interviews…and by far, this has been the most engaging one yet.
Might we consider the role prosperity ministries have played by encouraging the current transactional culture of the Evangelical movement today?!
Thanks so very much for such thoughtful observations and engrossing discussion guys.
I’m a retired pastor who is a progressive, so theologically I’m in a different place on some things. However, I really appreciated this discussion. I could relate to a lot of the experiences described. There might even be some hope for us progressives who have had similar struggles. Thank you.
Michael Steele😘 OF COURSE you know your bible stories!! You are the best!!!
Tin Alberta🤗 My 5th interview I've watched and enjoyed (but I'm partial to MS EVERYDAY!).
I'm a verified Amazon buyer of your book and it needed to be said and am thankful you are DOING YOUR JOB and bringing truth to light. God bless both of you and PLEASE keep doing the work for our Democracy.
Thanks so much for this. My grandmother gave me a red letter Bible when i was 10 years old. And she was the truest Christian I've ever known. At this point I don't go to church, because I don't feel welcome. I'm not sure how they recognize me as a red-letter Christian, but whenever I try to attend service I get a lot of dirty looks and feel very unwelcome.
@penpal6953 What do you mean by a "red letter Bible?" Not challenging or attacking; trying to learn so that I can coexist in our changing country. Thx.
@@denkerdunsmuir3370 A red letter Bible is one in which the words of Christ are printed in red. All other words are printed in black. I sincerely want to coexist, so God bless you!
Not sure where you live but I have found The Disciples of Christ church that I believe God led me to is very accepting of everyone. Their tag line “We are a movement for wholeness in a fractured world.”
The meekness of Christ did not denote weakness in Christ, but strength and power. These trumpeting Evangelicals have turned that on its head.
THANK YOU!!!! I needed this so much! It is nice to see people of real standing in this country saying the things that you have said today! I just wish there was a way for those that are lost in the MAGA world to hear your words. They need to hear this.
Thank you, Michael for another wonderful interview!!! I’m still parsing my way through Tim’s book. And I’m grateful to hear it ends on a positive note! Thank you, again, sir! Merry Christmas to you and yours!!!
Please say the of Tim's book
It's not just evangelicals, a lot of mainstream churches in the midwest states are preaching a lot of disturbing stuff.
Sincere thanks to both of you great Men, who impart your wisdom in these challenging and critical times in American Democracy…God help us All… 💙🇺🇸✨🙏
Americans do not hate or persecute religious people but fight for separation of church and state. Religious freedom but not religious authoritarianism.
Great explanation! Generations using religion to teach lies brought us to where this country is. Evangelicals have lost their way.
It’s early missionaries who presented religion and country as patriotic and the pledge of allegiance in schools and residential schools cemented that connection
People will do many things to avoid actually behaving with other people in an actual Christian manner.
Thank you for allowing me to understand Evangelical Christians.
I’m such a fan of the real gospel truth! Thank you both.
Home schooling scares me. Once a week public education should be required. to learn to get along with others
My kids were in public schools for a very long time. I had behavioral issues in them until I witnessed distant learning. I had the option to continue my son on distant learning instead of sending him back to school for a bit. In that time I saw how the children behaved in public schools. How little was taught because the teachers were being tormented. I even once called the principles office after witnessing one teacher doing her absolute best to bring order while roughly 6 kids REFUSED to be respectful. My son sitting there on the computer twiddling his thumbs for two days waiting for instruction. I told the office that this teacher is not at fault, she's simply out numbered and asked that they have someone stand outside her door and just listen to what she's dealing with. Very shortly I witnessed someone with authority sternly walk into that classroom and start calling students away. I realized then, my son needs to get out of public schools. His behavior improved very quickly after me taking him out. I do not agree we should have to send our kids to public schools to learn to socialize. That is the worst place to send a child to learn to respect others. My children are very respectful and hard working. One is very remorseful now of how he behaved towards his teachers in public schools. When children are surrounded by that behavior for HOURS a day without parents knowing it, parental discipline isn't going to help much in negating the fallout of that exposure.
And who would make that requirement ?
The government has to stay out of our lives .
It should scare you that kids bring guns to school and kill others .
Thank you Michael for mentioning the false prophets I have being waiting for all the podcasts for someone to say that Jesus Christ said beware of false prophets who come in my name it needs to be said again and again especially to the so call ministers of god I was a martyr in the the feed them to the lion but I believed a and still believe ❤
I'm so glad I wasn't raised in a religious home. I have chosen my own spiritual path.and haven't had to undo years of indoctrination.
I am an athiest. The Christian Rght has confused me. This helped me understand. Thank you
Thank you Michael and Tim for a wonderful presentation. The word “Nationalist Evangelicalism” is an oxymoron. For a start Jesus Christ came to redeem humanity in a Second Covenant to work in the vineyard for all people to show the love of the Father and to further reveal the Word of the Father for the redemption of all humanity. The great prayer of the Christian faith is the Doxology: Through Christ and with Christ and in Christ, in the unity of the Holy Spirit, all Christians give praise and glory to the Father. The greatest Theological Virtue is Love of God and of our neighbours. The Christian Faith is a history of God revealing Himself to all people in the person (“persona”) of Jesus, in the unity of the Holy Spirit, as three persons in one interpersonal relationship with the God as Father. The Ancient Greeks theatre used one actor wearing different masks known as a “persona” and “persona” became “person” in English and so we have three persons in one God, namely Father, creator, Son of the Father, in Christ, through the intimate and incarnated gift of the Father, and the Holy Spirit in relationships as ONE God in three persons. The three monotheistic religions share the revelation of God through Abraham: named as the Father of the Faiths of Judaism, with the early prophets; Christianity, and Muslimism, with its prophet Mohammed. If only we could all live in peace! 1:04:56
As an Atheist and not American, this conversation fascinated me! And i find Tim fascinating, i guess whats missong when it comes to trump and evangelism, i see them both as a cult, the evangelicals have their church indoctrinated them and trump has right wing media indoctrinate them. they have just both just joined cult. And because of the nature of a cult, their beliefs are not going to leave easily. Its fascinating and terrifying all at once!
I love this conversation between Tim Alberta and Michael Steele.
It's sad what Christians in the US are evolving into. And it's scary. I'm afraid to even go to church anymore.
This is so important, The Most Important subject to talk about now!
" The ends justify the means" never works out well.
As a person who's been a theologian for more than 30 years, and who taught full-time in Religious Studies for a leading Roman Catholic university in the Great Lakes region, I want to thank you Michael and Tim for an extraordinarily compelling, relevant and timely conversation.
This discussion is sorely needed at the national level among church leaders and theologians and lay people.
Far too many "Christians" in America have sold their souls for MAGA and political power, giving themselves to The Father of Lies, as forewarned by Jesus in the Gospels, and there y making their followers twice as fit for the eternal fire as they've made themselves by embracing The Evil One and his empty promises.
The Epistles, Acts and the Gospels all make it unequivocally clear, especially Matthew 25, that many will claim to love the Lord and claim discipleship at their personal judgement - yet Christ will condemn them, rebuke them and tell them, "Whatsoever you have done (or have not done) to the least of my brothers and sisters, so also you have done (or have not done) unto me. Now, away with you, Satan, for Amen, Amen, I do not know you. For I was a refugee, and you did not welcome me. I was hungry, and you did not feed me. Thirsty, and you gave me no drink. Naked, and you gave me no coat. In prison, and you did not visit me. Sick, and you did not care for me. Mourning, and you did not comfort me. Widowed and orphaned, and you did not provide for me. A worker, and you cheated my wages. ... Now, into the eternal fire with you, where you will wait, and curse, and grind and gnash your teeth forever, Satan."
MAGA, Trumpism, Christian Nationalism - such things as these are not Christian but blasphemous perversions and mockeries of the Gospel and of all that is good and honorable and holy and righteous.
How do we get EVERYONE to listen to this podcast. This is incredible…
If we all click the thumbs up just below the video screen, that makes it more likely to be shown as a possible viewing without having to search for it.
Most atheists I know make better Christians and know more about the Bible than most Christians I’ve known. I used to be a Christian and there are a few parables I bring up that tick off Christians-Jesus in the Temple and the Good Samaritan.
It doesn't tick off real Christians, only those who pretend to be.
Those FOLLOWERS of CHRIST know that those scriptures teach very important principles of the faith.💯
Agreed. Many times when first introduced to self-defined devout individuals they will trot out their litmus test questions to determine if I'm devout enough to their POV.
I'm the wrong person to do this with because I was analytical as a child from a HBU educated, Southern very Catholic sent to Catholic schools taught by Irish Roman Catholic nuns and priests.
I tell them I am unitarian which they rarely can process. Questions they ask are confusing to me like, have you been saved, or are you born again --:which really is language that means something different in almost every sect, church, etc. That fact alone is why our country was founded so no one dictator -- like King George of our revolutionary era -- couldn't shove rules, taxes, religion down our throats against our will and choice.
I go there with them gently, but too often, their education is too thin to help in thinking through the discussion even when I base it in the Bible. I am very gentle in these discussions because I get that they are suspicious and maybe afraid and trying to secure for themselves that they are safe with me. I am just human, too, so their quest for certitude is not helped by contact with me; I live I the ambiguities of reality nuances of which only confuse those not yet taught to think for themselves based on facts, data and common sense.
I look at this evangelical sectors with a sceptical eye because of its genesis in racist opposition to school integration via Brown decision 1954 and subsequent mid-20th century Civil rights movement. However, I share half traditional views with them and pray they will one day do their part to share half of modern views with me! Cooperation, compromise and conciliation go a long way toward a harmonious society!
I evolved from atheist to agnostic toothpaste because everything had to be proved. Then the humanist established themselves a Half block from my apartment. I attended 20 years and then my own nephew the president said he would have to kick me out so I quit. Intelligent they are but unprejudiced no. 2 on the board came to my place to say I was welcome. But until they don't exclude those who have experienced the supernatural I cannot go back. Nothing can happen unless it's natural but sometimes it's super.
Whatever is of faith is not of fear. Whatever is of fear is not of faith!!
Thanks Tim and Michael. For the gospel. Feels profound.
Hi guys ive been a Christian since i was very young and gave my heart to Jesus when i was 17 i was saved and my dad who had promised God during WWll if God got him out of this he would work for Him dad said he ran from it he had been saved when i was 10 he became a preacher who seemed to be one of the first to preach on revelation almost like its time for this to be revealed.
Hearing you guys talk language that sound like and is bibical is such a blessing in these trying times
God Bless you for truth
By the way Tim Albert your book is on my christmas list i bought one for my sister and my husband had my sister in law to buy me one
My sister is buying her two sons you book for there christmas present and a cooy of the constitution.
But we believe we are here to spread the Good News and win souls for the Lord but to be responsible and vote
God bless you both for
Truth in your words projected across America in these days of alternative facts.
Vote Blue
Can you believe that I finished reading Tim Alberta’s latest book yesterday. A five-star read. I learned so much.
WWJD? He wouldn't have a rifle or guns to kill people who did not think like him or look like him! That is surely not what Jesus would do. Etcetera.
I am so glad you are discussing "this new MAGA Evangelism." Thank you!
Thank you for this Podcast, interview.
Thank you for discussing relevant
issues. An interesting discussion.
Be safe, healthy and happy.
God bless you 🙏
Thursday, January 18, 2024
You shall know them by their fruit.
There are six things the LORD hates, seven that are detestable to him: 17 haughty eyes, a lying tongue, hands that shed innocent blood, 18 a heart that devises wicked schemes, feet that are quick to rush into evil, 19 a false witness who pours out lies and a man who stirs up dissension among brothers.
The Lord "hates?" Words like "Lord" and "love" partner; hate doesn't get a place at that table.
Too often people attribute phrasing to God for emphasis that can be misleading. Idk I wasn't there, but I get the overall idea which makes these discussions so crucial right now.
Wouldn't it be nice if someone like John Green started some short videos tovtranslate evangelical speak for the modern reader.
@@denkerdunsmuir3370 I typed a passage from the Old Testament. I understand what you are saying.
@@denkerdunsmuir3370 I think "hate" was used for those who were not of the same people/tribe/family. So, his brothers and sisters (family) are those who hear His words and follow them; that is, they love their neighbor, feed the hungry, etc. Those who do not do these things are CHOOSING to be not of His family.
Separation of Church and State!!!
Right on! Very clear to be now. Imagine that the Pilgrims arrived in America to escape religious persecution.
I am now gonna call myself a Christ follower. The evangelical term has a rotten connotation. Reading the book right now. Excellent
This a great pcast You guys teaching the real word of God for the first time in many years I gain insight into how the people I sat in bible study with had moved away from from Christ. Luke2:14
An Evangelical Black girl originally from West Africa with a Jesus sign and brochures came up to me in the parking lot right before Xmas; "Have you heard the word of the Lord?" I go; "Hey, look. I grew up Presbyterian in Upstate NY. Our minister cheated on his wife with a church lady. Who was best friends with my Republican Parents for a decade plus. As I was being confirmed at 15. He got kicked out, and they hired a more liberal minister that didn't like Ronald Reagan at the time. So she stopped going and dragging us, her kids, to church because she was a Pat Buchanan Republican and didn't like his anti Reagan sermons. So that ended my religion experience. That's how Secular it is in the North East. Then I moved to Utah for the Skiing for a decade after college. I experienced first hand, very aggressively, how Indoctrinated men can become being taken to church at one week old. In a Fundamentalist Christian Environment. And it scared the HELL outta me! That's why I live in CA now. So,... Until our world's religions can prove their not so pathetically Patriarchal. And have women run religions, Share/contribute to power, I'm not interested in participating in these utterly archaic practices from the previous Millennia. This includes politics! This is the 21st Century. So Merry Xmas, and take care, ok!?"
I’ve loved this comment and reread twice!
Spot on and the Utah experience adds much, mormons add another bizarre level of male worship
Sadly this is where my family is ever since Trump came on the scene. They are totally emerged into false beliefs BECAUSE their pastor became a believer of Trump and his cult. I’m SHOCKED at their abandonment of Jesus’ teachings! They abandoned Jesus in favor of this horrible man. Jesus wept. 😢😞
Look at the Methodist church. What craziness. My sister left her United church to go to the one that has broken off because they do not want gay people married, as pastors, or breathing.
Breathing?
Thank you for doing this interview. I’ve been listening to the audio book and it is nice to put a face to the words and the voice. I agree wholeheartedly with the concepts discussed here. I’ve been somewhat of an outlier in my church because I haven’t embraced many of the concepts that represent the Christian Nationalist movement. The more I listen to interviews like this, the more I understand my own revulsion to MAGA.
One of the BEST conversations to date. Thank you both!!!
Thanks for the information, I've been aware of this and trying to understand it so I'm so glad you're pointing it out,I can't wait to get the book and reading it
This was such a good conversation I know I'm going to hear a few more times. Michael and Tim thank you for educating us for what's really important..
Yes he gave us ten things to do that we can not do? So Jesus broke it down to two things? Love the lord our GOD with all that you are. and to love your neighbors as your self. right? Matthew 22:37
Wow, at times listening to this, I am in tears. It is as if at age 65 I am suddenly part of the 'church' of which I no longer know who I am a part of. I know that this Christian nationalism is not of Jesus, but where do we go from here if alone with Jesus. Now I am hearing two men who are speaking what I have known in my heart for some time but I am not hearing from the church around me. They are either going radical or staying quiet. Thank you for the truth straight from God's Word.
God forces His will on no one!
Thank you both for an interesting discussion 😊
Happy Holidays to everyone 🌲🌲
Mr. Steele - Thanks for this conversation. I am a Christian who has been alienated from the curch for many years. I do not know how to changes I've seen in what I was taught in church about Christ and what seems to taught. I have not know how to talk with family and friends about how I've felt about this and this conversation will help me.
Thank you Michael for this discussion, and thank you Tim for your Spirit-led books.
I'm listening from the Caribbean. I totally agree that the Christians mentioned in your Nation have not been reading God's Word. They are basically depending on what their Pastors say to them. The teachings of Jesus are all a believer need s to truly be a Kingdom person. 🙏
Michael is Steel Still along with Tim their continuity of Faith no matter wat the struggles of the day Our Hope is in the invisible and not the visible The true and abiding word of G-D
“It was miraculous. It was almost no trick at all, he saw, to turn vice into virtue and slander into truth, impotence into abstinence, arrogance into humility, plunder into philanthropy, thievery into honor, blasphemy into wisdom, brutality into patriotism, and sadism into justice. Anybody could do it; it required no brains at all. It merely required no character.”
― Joseph Heller, Catch-22
We live in the SF Bay Area. We go to a "Jesus is the Cornerstone" in everything kind of church. I don't know how it happened, but politics has never been discussed there. Still isn't. It is simply not talked about, it is checked at the door. Everyone I know at church is a person of good character. I'm so bugged by all of this that is going on now! I feel very hesitant to talk about it with anyone at church. Should I just break the ice with a trusted friend? Are we just lucky to be where we are? If that's the case, we can't ever move! Maybe Hawaii....good warm welcoming churches there.
Powerful dialog!
All one needs to do is remember Newt Gingrich, Michelle Bachman, etc. How can they remember the founding documents, if they don't even read the Bible? I take it all the way back to the "pilgrims", it comes down to White Anglo-Saxon Protestants WASPs, even back in the 17th century. Think who they hate, even in Europe. WASPs is not a religious affiliation it is a gang affiliation.
So powerful and so Biblical. You don’t use evil to accomplish good. They are antithetical.
Extreme evangelical politics have always been the driving force in the USA. Manifest destiny, HOO YAW!