VW Passat No Start - an SDP Case Study (Part 1)

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  • Опубликовано: 7 сен 2024

Комментарии • 127

  • @ScannerDanner
    @ScannerDanner  Год назад +15

    If you don't want to wait for the other 2 parts to be uploaded here to RUclips, SD Premium members can watch this entire class/series right now. In addition we have over 500 other videos you can check out while your there www.scannerdanner.com/scannerdanner-premium-chapters/no-start-case-studies.html
    Hope to see you there!

    • @SMAutoRepairLLC
      @SMAutoRepairLLC Год назад

      Going to have to join wish I could find time to watch all of your videos, so much knowledge you put out and share with us on here and as a small business owner and automotive technician I can’t say how grateful I am to have found you on here.

    • @jamiegermaine5395
      @jamiegermaine5395 Год назад

      You don't know how to spell I don't know how to ask questions😁

    • @SMAutoRepairLLC
      @SMAutoRepairLLC Год назад +1

      @@jamiegermaine5395 Look I’m from Kentucky, cut me some slack lol

  • @midnightauto9519
    @midnightauto9519 Год назад +7

    Paul I have been in this industry for 38 years as a diesel tech. Thought Ihave seen everything until i watch your videos. I have to get one of your books seems like there is a lot i can still learn

  • @justinpoole3154
    @justinpoole3154 Год назад +3

    Scanner Danner! If all young people entering the motor trade here in the UK had this type of training we would have many successful technicians. Your approach to teaching is spot on 👍🏻

  • @iannsalise4221
    @iannsalise4221 Год назад +3

    No. 1 teacher in mechatronics industry.

  • @douglash3129
    @douglash3129 Год назад

    Hi Paul and class, speaking of 2 grounds, HEI has a bat. neg. and a coil neg. I was putting in a kill switch and I was using the neg. for the kill switch, I hooked everything up, started started the eng. and flipped the switch and the eng. kept on running but I could hear the spark jumping the contacts in the switch,I was using coil neg instead of bat. neg. switched to battery neg. Everything was good! You Sir are a great teacher and you make people want to learn GOOD JOB Paul Danner!

  • @gremling72
    @gremling72 Год назад +1

    Hi Paul, Audi (VAG) LS2 coils typically have
    A and B (brown) to Ground,
    C is signal from ECU and
    D is +12v
    VAG coil short lenght coil stub
    1&2 brown and is ground
    3 is +12V
    4 is ECU signal
    I think one is power ground, the other one is signal ground. Should be quite a difference in thickness of the 2 grounds

  • @gt3tunecl725
    @gt3tunecl725 Год назад +2

    I dont see the video yet, but i am pretty sure that is a great content and info like always. Cheers from Chile

  • @Pablo_Automotive
    @Pablo_Automotive Год назад +2

    Nice video Paul. I'm waiting for the next part.

  • @isalmankhan1
    @isalmankhan1 Год назад +1

    First comment before watching the full lecture soo excited to be in the classroom digitally 😍
    Thanks for sharing SD❤

  • @jackiemay9471
    @jackiemay9471 Год назад

    that Shane is a right smart arse you get one in every class he ll have your job in twenty years good video Paul

  • @francezandamela6065
    @francezandamela6065 Год назад +5

    I'm watching now I believe I will gain a lot

  • @isalmankhan1
    @isalmankhan1 Год назад +2

    Superb Thanks for educating us SD👍
    Stay Blessed Bro❤

  • @danielmusat597
    @danielmusat597 Год назад +2

    A separate GND wire for the secondary ignition is needed because of EMI compliance. During firing the noise injected in the circuit is huge and the ECU power transistor might fail if the GND would be the same for both inductors (if the wire disconnects from GND, the transistor is in series with the inductors). That's why the GND of the primary is going to the ECU (for closing the loop effectively) and the GND of the secondary is injected in the block of the engine dissipating in a big chunk of metal, reducing electromagnetic emission and closing the loop through the spark plug.

    • @brianmason8400
      @brianmason8400 Год назад

      I'm impressed..... looks like someone has definitely been doing some homework..... thanks for the info.

    • @ScannerDanner
      @ScannerDanner  Год назад

      It's not dissipating, the block and that extra ground is the return path for the secondary winding. (I corrected my mistake further into the video and explain this)
      Thanks!

    • @danielmusat597
      @danielmusat597 Год назад

      @@ScannerDanner Dissipating means a high energy over a small amount of time which has to go somewhere. The electric field is high and it is "channeled" through a small wire. If it goes directly to the spark plug it creates EMI noise around the wire, while, if it goes into a big metal block, it dissipates and the noise goes way down. In other words, the current flowing between the 2 points takes many paths through the block.
      Electric field (voltage over the block in this case) is not uniform through a medium. As the medium gets thinner, the electric field increases per surface area, and viceversa increasing or decreasing noise.

    • @ScannerDanner
      @ScannerDanner  Год назад

      @@danielmusat597 You are complicating something simple in my opinion.
      If you take that secondary ground away, you will NOT have spark. It is simply a return path. Coil secondary windings are either connected to coil positive or a direct ground (like this one) or another spark plug (waste spark systems). In ALL of those circumstances this is the return path back to the coil windings where we send all those electrons out.
      That is the main purpose of that additional ground wire. The only difference with the 3-wire coil design and this one, is the secondary winding is attached to coil positive instead of ground. Again, you need a return path!

  • @akshonclip
    @akshonclip Год назад +1

    The second ground is used for the secondary winding in the ignition coil because the valve cover it is mounted to is plastic.

    • @ScannerDanner
      @ScannerDanner  Год назад

      Yes sir, I catch this later in the video. Thanks!

  • @tomtke7351
    @tomtke7351 Год назад +2

    Very, very informative. I'd offer that the confirmation signal might BOTH confirm the control switching AND the inductive reaction of actual firing of secondary.
    Now that I've learned, I wonder: IF there's no confirmation doesn't ECM disable respective injector? If common confirmation path is open to ECM will ALL injectors be disabled?
    HOW'S COME, again, did you decide to not get communications back? Isn't there a wealth of data to be gained?

    • @albi2k88
      @albi2k88 Год назад

      As I know in that VW coils one ground is for primary winding second is for secondary. I connected that type of VW's coils to standalone ECU one time Missfires are detected using cranck speed sensor.

    • @ScannerDanner
      @ScannerDanner  Год назад

      I'm focused on showing them what a bad sensor ground circuit looks like. The communication signal may or may not have shown it as an elevated voltage in the network every time the ECM talks. This was more important for the new guys

    • @ScannerDanner
      @ScannerDanner  Год назад

      Correct and I corrected myself late in the video. Thanks!

  • @lowerider84
    @lowerider84 Год назад

    The car is a quilt with a timing chain and they are known for the timing guide to break. Mr. Value's and Mr. Piston's will meet. Plus the high pressure pump that Paul had his hand on. The fuel pump cam follower can fail and damage the cam. Junkyard motor of the timing jump or spend more for a head plus VW parts.

  • @VladGoro25
    @VladGoro25 Год назад

    Today i finaly fixed NO SPARK no INJECTION problem on 1995 Audi A6 C4 2.6 V6 MPI engine. After checking entire engine control system for a shorted\open power and sensor wires with a scope and swaping an ECU from a donor car it didn't start either. HELLA brand ECU on this can CAN NOT BE DIAGNOSED with scanners i have in my shop (and a lot of people claim the same) so scope is the only way. Than i diged forums, found some waveforms of cam crank and engine speed sensors (eng speed sensor is identical to crank sensor but has different target and thus waveform. So in this car ECU watches 2 crank sensors and one cam sensor). I decided to record waveforms of these sensors at my client's car and they didn't corelate with those found in forums, it seemed that cam was too advanced. After physicaly getting crankshaft in cyl 1 TDC i confirmed that TIMING WAS WRONG on that car and both CAMs were way ahaed of CRANK and somewhat not in time in relation of each other! Then i found the reason - some plastic pieces cracked away from engine cover and got under the timing belt and it jumped. After instaling timing belt with crank and cams in time - engine started after 2 secs of cranking and working again. It cranks 1-1.5 secs every time you start it. That was new experience for me and first time ECU won't give spark cause of TIMING issues + i couldn't use diag tools (HARD MODE ENGAGED :)

  • @kevinhedrick6354
    @kevinhedrick6354 Год назад

    In D.I.N. systems brown is supposed to be I believe terminal 30 or power feed essentially ignition feed. I could jave those wrong, it's been 7 years since I worked for Audi and haven't read D.I.N. diagrams in a long time

    • @LynxStarAuto
      @LynxStarAuto Год назад

      All VAG products use two grounds one for the primary, and one for the secondary. The other is a power feed, and the third is a signal wire.
      This is all I work on, the Euro stuff. Going over 20 years now.

  • @briandish1787
    @briandish1787 Год назад

    If you don't have Phil's piercing tool a bed of nails will also work!

  • @romanjaspe4172
    @romanjaspe4172 Год назад

    thanks so much paul

  • @harshanakumara192
    @harshanakumara192 Год назад

    Awesome explanation 👍👍👍👍👍

  • @jacksonlamme
    @jacksonlamme Год назад

    your a brilliant teacher!

  • @plowe6751
    @plowe6751 5 дней назад

    31:38 "Why would they use 2 grounds?" -- Perhaps for redundancy, because redundancy equals reliability. (For my guess to be true, both grounds would have to be connected internally inside the coil-on-plug assembly.) Perhaps, for the same reason, in some cars, the fuel pump gets power from both the fuel pump relay and the oil pressure switch.

    • @ScannerDanner
      @ScannerDanner  5 дней назад

      Secondary winding

    • @plowe6751
      @plowe6751 5 дней назад

      @@ScannerDanner If that's true, then doesn't that mean there is 10,000 to 20,000 volts going through that ground wire? Couldn't you put a capacitive probe onto it to get a secondary ignition voltage waveform. (That design would have diagnostic implications. Imagine what would happen if you tried to graph that voltage waveform with a 20 to 1 attenuator. Smoke.)

    • @ScannerDanner
      @ScannerDanner  5 дней назад

      Watch the other parts, I cover this

  • @mrcoconut9205
    @mrcoconut9205 Год назад +1

    Very informational love it

  • @howlinhog
    @howlinhog Год назад +1

    I'm not sure how much logic is involved with the confirmation circuit; I believe it's just a change of state that the computer is looking for. Next time I see a four wire I'm hooking up the scope and comparing the two. Confirmation should look just like a typical primary side coil pattern and the ECU signal should be a square wave. Going off of your drawing that is.

    • @ScannerDanner
      @ScannerDanner  Год назад

      I was wrong about the 4th wire on this design initially but then corrected myself later in the video. Be sure to watch it through for that correction. Thank you!

    • @howlinhog
      @howlinhog Год назад

      @@ScannerDanner Yeah, I watched all the way through but decided to leave my comment. Not sure I've ever hooked up my scope to a confirmation circuit. But if we were to imagine that you actually were working on a vehicle with a confirmation circuit and your hand drawn circuit is correct, (I don't know myself), I don't think it would be square, would it? I think it would look like any primary ignition pattern.

    • @ScannerDanner
      @ScannerDanner  Год назад

      @@howlinhog I'm so sorry man. I'll upload part two early next week (Tuesday or Wednesday) looks like I only uploaded part 1.
      As for the IGT signal toyota uses, it is a conditioned signal, it is not a direct tap into coil negative. Hope that makes sense. There is more circuitry involved in the coil.
      But this extra ground wire is for the secondary. I caught my mistake late in this video. Thanks!

  • @zachariajacobussiebert3459
    @zachariajacobussiebert3459 8 месяцев назад +1

    2009 VW Jetta MK5 1K 2.0 Lt TDI CBD0 Engine, has a P0193 Fuel Pressure Rail Circuit High Input, Sensor has been replaced but problem still there, cars been standing 3 Months. Is there a video out regarding this matter,
    please help.

    • @ScannerDanner
      @ScannerDanner  8 месяцев назад

      Absolutely, but not this sensor directly. My chapters 7 (potentiometers) and 8 (pressure sensors) playlists right here on RUclips will help you. You're dealing with a 3 wire pressure sensor, what are your voltage readings plugged in and backprobing with the key on engine off?

  • @dtnel
    @dtnel Год назад

    Working on one of these as we speak, immo issue though.

  • @normangallant9879
    @normangallant9879 Год назад

    This is a good education.

  • @troysmith9453
    @troysmith9453 Год назад

    Never mind tell Shane he's the man cause that's what it thought of 😉

  • @mikesabin8568
    @mikesabin8568 Год назад

    Audi and vw usually have two grounds at cop. Im used to that

  • @gregoryfairchild2460
    @gregoryfairchild2460 Год назад

    First thing in my mind is, it ran fine before the timing belt failure.
    Logically, what could that event have affected.
    That's my first target areas.
    Not starting from scratch, crank, no start.
    No sense checking everything.
    Unless you're just teaching.
    What did the failure touch?
    What did the belt replacer touch?

    • @gregoryfairchild2460
      @gregoryfairchild2460 Год назад

      I'm working on a 2003 Silverado right now that I diagnosed with a bad fuel injector on cylinder no#7.
      The mechanic replaced that injector and the misfire was fixed BUT now it won't shift into Overdrive.
      Now I'm not going to drop the trans pan and start testing circuits and ttc solenoid etc.
      I'm going to look at what that mechanic touched first, thoroughly.

    • @ScannerDanner
      @ScannerDanner  Год назад

      Watch part 2. I promise it's worth it. Teaching a process was given greatest priority all through this. Not the quickest route.

  • @DependableAutoTruck
    @DependableAutoTruck Год назад

    I have a noid light set but always very dim is there a best test light or a bulb that works better. I have one like you like so much haven't tried it. I usually use a stethoscope and listen for injector pulse and spark jump

    • @ScannerDanner
      @ScannerDanner  Год назад

      It depends on the type of bulb and control (pulse width) on how bright a noid light will light. Especially if the engine is running. A dim bulb may not be an issue

  • @jacobkmiller
    @jacobkmiller Год назад +1

    Man, I wish I was in your class. I've always got questions and it bugs me I can't ask at that moment.

    • @ScannerDanner
      @ScannerDanner  Год назад +2

      Write your questions down, then ask them in a comment after you watch the video. You'll be surprised how many of your questions get answered along the way. But I always make it a point or priority to answer questions from someone who is truly trying to learn. Thank you!

    • @jacobkmiller
      @jacobkmiller Год назад

      @@ScannerDanner ok! I Appreciate you! Also, my dad went to RoseDale back when it was in Homestead. I'm assuming it was 2 years, so he was out in 86-87 or something. Graduated high-school in 84.

  • @eduardoyepez7358
    @eduardoyepez7358 Год назад

    Coming from a field tech perspective, we would jump to making sure it has compression before going down the rabbit hole. No sense in spending hundred of dollars worth of diag time if the motor won’t run well. I know this was done for learning purposes but maybe something to clarify next time? Thanks for your videos they keep me entertained

    • @ScannerDanner
      @ScannerDanner  Год назад

      We talk about all of this in the next part 😉

  • @charisgrivas4181
    @charisgrivas4181 Год назад

    I have a vw golf TSI 1.4 2009.before approximately 2 months ago I was done my test with my oscilloscope and with the multimeter and the test light.i can say that the confirmation signals its not exist by the four pins i found 2 grounds 1 12v and one signal 0 to 5v.

    • @ScannerDanner
      @ScannerDanner  Год назад

      I corrected myself later in the video. This second ground is for the secondary winding. Thanks!

    • @charisgrivas4181
      @charisgrivas4181 Год назад

      Paul you are a great teacher and a mastermind troubleshooter I must say thanks to you because you are the reason for me to have now oscilloscope and be a better technician thanks Paul

    • @ScannerDanner
      @ScannerDanner  Год назад

      @@charisgrivas4181 thank you!

  • @kenniefernandez
    @kenniefernandez Год назад

    OUTSTANDING Man God Bless

  • @palharley
    @palharley Год назад

    Yes, RTV that smells like vinegar uses an acid cure. YES, it is corrosive, but it makes a fantastic adhesive due to the acidic etching properties. Acid and electric bad. Sensor safe gasket RTV okay for electric. Liquid Electric tape always good.

  • @dominikg4334
    @dominikg4334 Год назад

    cam to crank correlation have to be right in order to have a spark ?. Different flywheel ?.

  • @AbbottAutomotive
    @AbbottAutomotive Год назад

    Great stuff. 👍🏼

  • @Steve.191
    @Steve.191 Год назад

    Super glue seems to work great for punctured wires

  • @troysmith9453
    @troysmith9453 Год назад +2

    About those grounds maybe if the main ground for the coil goes it has a second one so the car will still run but will go into some kind of safe mode or it could be for protection of the PCM like you said it's a European our second enemy next to rust 😆

    • @ScannerDanner
      @ScannerDanner  Год назад

      I corrected myself later in the video. It is the ground for the secondary winding. Thanks Troy

  • @imrannazeer1262
    @imrannazeer1262 Год назад

    Thank you so much sir

  • @frankgonzalez24
    @frankgonzalez24 Год назад

    Just wondering, if the second coil ground is the ground for the secondary coil, could you use an inductive clamp on it to check the sparkplug fire wave form of that sparkplug?

    • @ScannerDanner
      @ScannerDanner  Год назад

      It is (I corrected myself later in the video)
      But no, a current ramp pattern of the secondary will be nothing but noise

  • @danman9017
    @danman9017 Год назад

    good video thanks

  • @andreloepfe2539
    @andreloepfe2539 Год назад

    Hi Paul, i have heard that VW have a ground for the secondary coil, there is no confirmation to the ecm

    • @ScannerDanner
      @ScannerDanner  Год назад

      Yes sir, I caught this mistake further into the video, thanks!

  • @hendrivlieger4642
    @hendrivlieger4642 Год назад

    Paul getting his feet in euro stuff. Few more months and he will be loving euro
    😂

  • @markhollins2190
    @markhollins2190 Год назад

    Nice

  • @midnightauto9519
    @midnightauto9519 Год назад

    Paul I get my liquid tape at cumberland truck parts .same place you got your brake cans for your motor home.

  • @manolitolicup5941
    @manolitolicup5941 Год назад

    so in that 4 wire design you dont need a capacitor outside the coil? Am I correct?

    • @ScannerDanner
      @ScannerDanner  Год назад +1

      They don't use capacitors on any COP systems, from 2 wire designs to 3 and 4 wire designs. I'm sure they exist within the computer circuitry but nothing external

  • @ivandrago2557
    @ivandrago2557 Год назад

    VW almost always has a two grounds for coils over plugs

  • @carlosm7232
    @carlosm7232 Год назад +1

    When should we expect part 2

    • @ScannerDanner
      @ScannerDanner  Год назад

      Most likely next Saturday. If you're a premium member you don't have to wait, this whole series is there now. Thanks!
      www.scannerdanner.com/join-scannerdanner-premium.html

  • @bikerboy6985
    @bikerboy6985 Месяц назад

    Its gdi and its high presure pump

    • @ScannerDanner
      @ScannerDanner  Месяц назад +1

      did you roll your diagnostic dice for suggestion? 😉

    • @bikerboy6985
      @bikerboy6985 Месяц назад

      @@ScannerDanner sorry no diagnostic dice needed that part you mentioned its HPP high pressure pump and injectors are located in head of the engine…greetings from VW Audi tech

    • @ScannerDanner
      @ScannerDanner  Месяц назад

      ​@bikerboy6985 except that's not what wrong with this car (that was my point)

    • @bikerboy6985
      @bikerboy6985 Месяц назад

      @@ScannerDannerthat’s correct…you’re awesome teacher nicely done! Always still learning

  • @nickayivor8432
    @nickayivor8432 Год назад

    ACCOMPLISHED Sir ScannerDanner
    My teacher
    God bless you for sharing it thank you very much helpful information video Take care and have a great Evening with all your family around you
    ACCOMPLISHED Sir ScannerDanner
    From Nick Ayivor from London England UK 🇬🇧

  • @aymenmohamed1134
    @aymenmohamed1134 Год назад

    👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻🌷

  • @jamiegermaine5395
    @jamiegermaine5395 Год назад

    When the hell do we get to see the rest of the Volkswagen Diagnosed

    • @ScannerDanner
      @ScannerDanner  Год назад +4

      Why would you ask me like that? I just posted part 1 like two hours ago.
      I'll get the next two parts up over the next week or so.

  • @anjupong4239
    @anjupong4239 Год назад

    The car is a gdi and if the timing chain broke it's going to bend the valves

    • @ScannerDanner
      @ScannerDanner  Год назад

      Just teaching a good class my friend. It's not even about the car. It's recognizing faults. Hope that makes sense why I chose this path. Part 3 will be on Sat and you'll like what we find and the sum up of what we learned

    • @anjupong4239
      @anjupong4239 Год назад

      And a very good content teaching keep up the good work

  • @fascistpedant758
    @fascistpedant758 Год назад

    I keep getting more confused as to who uses the fourth wire for what but I've never needed to know anyway. It's just a useless wire, ignore it.

    • @ScannerDanner
      @ScannerDanner  Год назад

      🤣 this variation it used the second ground for the secondary winding.

  • @simplemechanics246
    @simplemechanics246 Год назад

    Are you younger on that video? Sure, 2 and 3 we never see but ehhhh...

    • @ScannerDanner
      @ScannerDanner  Год назад

      2 is up and 3 will be up this Saturday 10-22-22 and yes, this was from 2016

  • @tullgutten
    @tullgutten Год назад

    Just about every german/European vehicle needs valves after timing chain/belt has shit itself.
    And 100% ever VW after 1999

    • @tullgutten
      @tullgutten Год назад

      If the valve is good it some times bend or break the rockers.
      And not completely sure if its for this engine but some vag have press fit lobes on the cam that can spin so it is wrong valve timing from the lobes

  • @gsaegerjr
    @gsaegerjr Год назад

    SO IF I UNDERSTAND YOU LAST COMMENTS RIGHT. IF WHEN THEN DID THE TIMMING BELT. THEY FORGOT A GROUND WIRE OR BROKE A GROUND WIRE. IT WOULD NOT HAVE SPARK. IF THIS ISN'T RIGHT LET ME KNOW.

    • @spelunkerd
      @spelunkerd Год назад

      Good thought. The other thing that may be close by to the timing belt in some vehicles is the crank position sensor. Leave that connector unhooked and the computer doesn't know when to fire.

    • @ScannerDanner
      @ScannerDanner  Год назад

      Part 2 is up and part 3 will be out this Sat.
      Then if you still have questions I can answer them then okay?

  • @makdja4957
    @makdja4957 Год назад

    Excuse me but you uploaded this video three years ago at this channel.

    • @ScannerDanner
      @ScannerDanner  Год назад

      Did I??

    • @stuzman52
      @stuzman52 Год назад

      @@ScannerDanner He is correct Paul. This video was uploaded three years ago, and here is the link to it ruclips.net/video/yqtjjjD0TQo/видео.html

  • @elianbarajas2869
    @elianbarajas2869 Год назад

    John thinks he knows more than you, he isn’t going to learn shit. 😂

    • @ScannerDanner
      @ScannerDanner  Год назад

      "Sean" was one of the best students I've ever had. I love students like this that engage with me when I'm teaching. But I can understand why you may read this situation differently on the other side of the camera. Thanks!

    • @ScannerDanner
      @ScannerDanner  Год назад +1

      my fault, there is a "John" in this class. John and Shane would be the two we hear from a lot

  • @howlinhog
    @howlinhog Год назад

    Do the Germans even make a non-interference motor?

  • @greatreset3
    @greatreset3 Год назад

    I'd refuse a hacked up pile like that! Once you touch it, YOU OWN IT ! 💩💣☠

    • @ScannerDanner
      @ScannerDanner  Год назад

      Teaching a class. I really don't care about the car 😉

  • @Portuguese-linguica
    @Portuguese-linguica Год назад

    When you said no commutation first thing came to mind was ecu issue .

    • @ScannerDanner
      @ScannerDanner  Год назад +1

      But the opportunity I got to have with this class on teaching what a bad sensor ground looks like was awesome, right?

    • @Portuguese-linguica
      @Portuguese-linguica Год назад

      @@ScannerDanner yes sir . Couldn't have done it any better .

  • @cesarsalinas1603
    @cesarsalinas1603 Год назад

    Danner has washap aolication