Esprit Suspension Top Gear 1983 series11 episode 1
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- Опубликовано: 21 сен 2024
- Just the bit about Lotus special suspension edited from an old Top Gear episode. Lotus Turbo Esprit seen hurtling around the circuit at Hethel. Standard version & special suspension equiped version. Some fantatstic film of a pure drivers car. Question: Being quite tall, how does John Mills actually fit in the car?
The 80s treated people like they wr intelligent. Amazing how much we lost.
yes, watch an 80s news broadcast... very different
They were all on coke so the brain was firing on all cylinders
Fr fr
People won't watch if they have to think. Chicken and egg.
Look how dumb the masses are. So dumb, they believe everything the media and government says. The world is getting dumber
6 minutes of technical jargon in 1983 would be reduced to a sound bite today.
“And it’s all down to this clever bit of kit, here”
Even that's too long an explanation... "magic happens" would do
I'd just go with raised hands and quizzical face 🤷
That's because the majority of people don't want to hear it, not because they choose not to go into more detail.
@@UPnDOWN I wonder what changed over the years to neuter attention span, and human curiosity.
@@onepalproductions We're living in a world where people can learn anything they want at the click of a button, or choose what they watch on telly/streaming on demand. We're also in an era where people care so much about what others think that they daren't admit to finding something like this interesting, and a world where learning or being enthusiastic about something is classed as being a 'neek' (nerd & geek combined). It's cool to not try hard, apaprently.
Top Gear changed the motoring programme format to entertainment, and for all the positives of that, the negatives is that less and less will go into detail now.
Driving4answers on here is worth searching out, though, if you like learning stuff.
Lovely blast from the past. I had the pleasure of working with John on a few projects, very interesting and knowledgeable guy, and a hell of a driver! When things were not going well, John would often take his frustrations out on the track, being a passenger in that situation was an experience I will never forget!
Watching this in 2022, I can say Lotus was so well ahead of its time! Impressive.
At the time, the Espirit was totally canned by critics. That's why they weren't that popular even though they were beautiful
@@bigkdog5091 nope critics actually liked the car but they weren't popular because they were expensive, low volume, 4 cylinders and the competition from Porsche & Ferrari overshadowed them and then the later cars got overshadowed by the more obtainable MR2 & NSX.
had many mk2 supra's which Lotus did the suspension for..damn good handling for a 80s car.
Well that is if you sort of forget about the Citroën suspensions which very effectively tackled the problem from a different angle. But Citroen actually got it into consumer cars. It was interesting research though ofc and cool to see. Back when the UK still made stuff!
@@melanieenmats isn't Lotus made in UK anymore?
Listening to this man makes me want to make some tea....
Made me hungry too.
tea & biscuits cheers to you amigo!
And watching Mr. Bean 🚙🚙🚙
Makes me want to take a nap. Clarkson completely changed this show.
Tea and crumpets. Good day mate
Nice item on the development of active suspension from classic Top Gear. The presenter of the piece is John Miles, ex Team Lotus F1 driver, who drove in the 1969 and 1970 seasons (retired after the death of Jochen Rindt). According to Wikipedia, John is a qualified mechanical engineer and worked for Lotus later on (not sure whether is would have been Lotus Cars or Lotus Engineering) hence why he's presenting.
Loved the old series, William Woollard reminded me of my School science teacher very serious, academic and informative. Several light years away from the planet inhabited by Captain Slow, Hamster and Jezza 😂
I am not a fan of watching paint dry.
@@MandoRick1978 attention span of a goldfish and the brain of a gnat, I suppose?
This is the kind of stuff I'd like to see top gear return to reporting. 👍
Back when I used to enjoy watching Top Gear.
..yup, ..Fifth Gear continued on with this technical style compared to the tabloid journo simplified to American dumbness levels of bombastic Clarkson era within Top Gear.
Thank you for posting. If only "Top Gear" was like this these days!
I remember reading about this car in 1983 in Road & Track or Motor Trend. It vastly out-performed a stock Esprit especially on a bumpy road. At 100 mph on one road the active car was gently rising and dipping slightly while the stock Esprit was getting airborne over bumps. They could program in whatever they wanted, such as leaning into turns like a motorcycle, or reverse brake dive where the front end raises up in proportion to how hard you brake. The tester said it reacted extremely quickly to even the most sudden steering inputs he could throw at it. Amazing for 1983 and for just a prototype. The main problem was apparently extensive maintenance needed for the hydraulics as mentioned in other comments. There was also added weight and cost of course. I wouldn't mind the weight and cost. Driving a car like this would be awesome and worth it. The maintenance factor would have to be solved though. I'd love to see this type of suspension revived and gotten into mass production and somehow made low maintenance. That's the tough part.
Those were the days!
I remember an article in Car Magazine where Nigel Mansell was demonstrating the system to Steve Cropley ( or was it Mel Nichols?) around Brands Hatch in a Turbo Esprit, my poster car when i was growing up!
It's terrible low maintenance and part of most luxury ars nowadays.
The performance vs weight aspect would have been a conundrum for Colin Chapman. I wonder how much involvement he had in this.
@@CaptainBlackadder75 A info fax and a coffee at a morning meeting.
most supercars today have adaptive suspension. it is a mass market technology today.
When I got into cars the updated Esprit design (Peter Stevens) was already on the roads, but looking back the original shape by Guigiaro is still looking great today.
This is like watching open University as a kid in the 70's 🤣 I'm an engineer so I'd still watch this format now 🤔😁
So would I. In fact i've barely watched Top Gear in over a decade. I'm actually interested in how cars work, why they won't and what future cars might be like. Seeing that really, really affordable Maverick in the US Market and how Ford achieved it is interesting to me.
I suspect nobody would be selling comics, figurines and so on off the back of that, though.
Just bought one from a collection 22638 miles on it. I am in Lotus position heaven
I wonder if any of that stuff is available anymore. Never made it into production
Jenna08848 i
@@Jenna08848 Audi Magnetic Ride
Do you still have to Lotus? What happened? How was it??:) just curious, I always wanted one of these
its 2022 now,...whats the mileage now amigo?
Watching the suspension work at 4:07 is actually amazing, the car literally didnt roll at all you'd think it was on ice.
my horse drawn carriage doesn't roll or rock either with my oak beam wheel attachment kit.
@@mk1ttdude65 thats what you think. Record it from the outside and youll see its doing a lot
5:02 is as impressivenas well showing how smooth the aft axle adjusts according to the fwd movement.
In 2022 this segment would have involved 20 explosions, an attack-helicopter, 300 quick-cuts, a brief chat about the 0 to 60 time, and 70 images of the car sitting still, surrounded by smoke and LAZERs in an aircraft hanger.
Back 1983 they spoke toyou like an adult who may be interested in the engineering and how cars work.
How nice to listen to John Miles, very professional and informative, now we have pillocks shouting POWER! or doing childish antics.
It was never the same after those clowns took over - they should have had their own show and retained the old top gear for more factual stuff like this
@@muckle8 isn't it funny how many say just that about gen 2 and 3 of TG. "They should have kept Clarkson, Hammond, and May and the new blokes could have done their own show" 😁😁
@Benny Lloyd-Willner I guess with ever younger audiences getting addicted that that view was inevitable - don’t get me wrong I did like clarkson , Hammond and may , they all brought some comedy which is always welcome in Britain but to my mind they veered off sideways a bit too much , it became a super car burnout show rather than an Everyman motoring show
@@muckle8 I loved their TG era, but I also agree with wanting a more techie down-to-earth program. One would think there is room for both types to get enough viewers.
Def room for both yes
Lotus is criminally underrated.
Not if you live in Norfolk...
Was.
They are the unluckiest car company. It seems like every time they are about to launch a new car there's some kind of global disaster that tanks the economy. Their historical importance is huge, they were massive innovators and to this day their cars are always a benchmark in handling.
No, luck has nothing to do with it. Colin as the genius that he is technically, had a very bad reputation thats why the company failed to grow.
@@mallowricyano937 dude, when they were going to release the new esprit 9/11 happened, when they launched the Evora, the banking collapse of 2008 happened, now they are launching the Emira during a pandemic. It’s got nothing to do with Colin Chapman’s laissez faire attitude to safety. I wasn’t talking about that.
Gosh, back when Top Gear was an interesting and informative programme!
Seeing the Esprit jump up on start up at the end of the segment looked so cool!
In 2007 I took my Exige S to VIR for a Lotus Car Club day. While there I had the chance to speak with one of the engineers on this active suspension project and it was one of the very best conversations/lectures I've ever had. I'll never forget it. I still love driving Lotus cars!
F1 team Williams did their version of fully active suspension pioneered by Lotus. Won the WDC and constructors titles then the FIA in their wisdom promptly banned the tech.
Wow. Sir James Dyson hasn't aged at all.
5:05
That's awesome.
4:21 Good old-fashioned farmer burning the stubble...
Well spotted!
The Audi RS6 and 7 uses something similar but with pneumatics rather than hydraulics. The settings can be changed on the fly, the ride is great, and the handling is very good, esp. considering it weighs 2 tonnes. It corners flat as well.
Thank you Lotus !
BTW I remember the Formula One cars using this to great advantage. I'm glad the technology transferred somewhat to road cars. Of course they banned it along with active aero and later turbocharging. All these innovations had me glued to the F1 season. Since the 90s I've barely watched a race.
lotus were actually the first to use active suspension in grand prix racing too, in the late 80's they used both passive and active cars using senna as the primary test driver.
Makes me proud to be British. Shame we messed up our motor industry
Mike you're wrong about lotus and f1
Lotus had bolted sections of helicopter blades above their suspension systems in 1968 already. That was the start of ground effects on F1 cars.
As I recall, Nigel Mansell used active suspension on his Lotus in the first two races of 1983 and hated it, so Lotus didn’t revisit the concept until 1987. When Nelson Piquet developed the active Williams at the same time Mansell initially refused to use it, based on bad past experiences
Crazy how we went from the Model A to this in just 80 years. It’s entirely possible someone’s childhood car was something like a Model A, but they also would’ve had the chance to drive this.
The jump from 2000s to 2010s quality was pretty impressive too depending on which category you’re looking at, in terms of technology and standard equipment
So impressive, as the man pushes the car front down, it dips its back too.
It remind me of of active suspension of the MP4-12C, which is a 2012 car.
After watching this, I'm amazed that this very idea is actually came from 1983 !
5:02 “If it’s rocking, don’t come knocking”.
the modern top gear should go back to this instead of the ridiculous shit they have these days.
How times have changed though. He's singing the praises of that red Esprit while it rolls and twitch's like crazy. That black one however goes like a charm.
Fuck me. Factual Top Gear.
A Lotus that thinks it's a Citroen? That's brilliant!
Citroen still holds the record for moose test I think.
@@Power5 That wouldn't have been by a DS. A CX GTI or maybe an SM ?
Citroen Xantia Active has the speed record for moose test at 52.8mph, 85 kph.
@@Power5 It did, though it was only through a magazine, nothing official. They revisited it last year and the Activa is now slower than many modern cars, but for its time it was very good.
@@UPnDOWN It was good indeed. Matched a Ferrari 512 TR in lateral acceleration while only utilizing comfort-spec 195 mm tyres. Driving this thing was great apart from speed limits feeling about 30% too slow compared to a regular Citroen.
It's Nov. 1 2022. So being far & beyond the times... this is relative to the modern day GT350 with the Magnaride. Amazing & always have loved the Espirit!!!
That unreal car tech for 1983. That’s Way ahead of its time
Lotus did another suspension development program in the early 90’s on an Esprit. It was called SID, and the car was later left to rot outside the factory.
no way this show would be popular today, its actually interesting.
All active suspension electronics were courtesy of Lucas, the prince of darkness.
2:30 omg watching it drift completely level is blowing my mind.
This is UNBELIEVABLE! One has to wonder how this technology was never really put into anything mainstream. The best part of this setup seems to be that it is not reliant on cameras or any kind of optical sensing. I think that this really could have been something viable and amazing. Anyone else?
it was, citroen also did a lot of experiments on active suspension ( as you may know they were one of the first to use an hydraulic suspension in 1954 ), and they first created an active suspension that would stiffen and then made some researchs on an anti roll suspension. They first made the activa concept, and then put all the stuff they've learned in the the xantia activa, a mass produced car with an active anti-roll and adaptative suspension. The goal of that car was to achieve an incredibly comfortable car while not having any roll.
Problem is, the fastest version had "only" 200hp and it was front wheel drive ... this being said, the suspension allows just a bit of angle, so it will roll by a few degrees.
ruclips.net/video/1FzoeuCVb3w/видео.html
ruclips.net/video/oMJbUsDZOzI/видео.html
ruclips.net/video/7iarg2_RdOA/видео.html
@@Ziggy_Wolf the good old days of mmc world rally and all it's rally inspired tech dripping down. look what they put out nowadays
I want a Lotus Europa JPS Special Edition. So there!
If only television sacrificed mass appeal, revenue and entertainment for serious, educational and intelligent programming. We'd all be better off.
This technology is in series production today with the electromechanical "anti roll bar stabilizer". Keeps the car absolutely flat in the corners. Can be found in Bentley Bentayga, Porsche Cayenne, BMW 7 series, etc.
It's not even remotely the same technology.
@@varmastiko2908 Indeed it isn't: Lotus used a complex hydro-pneumatic active suspension to for anti-roll. Given the quality and reliability we all know from Lotus, I'm sure this would have been the ultimate owners nightmare to maintain. Today's system are either electro-mechanical or electro-hydraulic anti-roll bars and *actually* work in real-life applications.
4:30 - без каски и даже без ремня ! )) с улыбкой испытывает машину в предельных условиях ). На это приятно смотреть, чёрт возьми!
This electronic wizardry in cars will never catch on 🤣🤣
Why the emojis? Why the post 2020 account?
This was more like an automotive engineering lecture from the open university rather than an explanation to the lay man at home.
That’s how Top Gear was back then. More educational than humorous
I think that this exact car (the black Esprit) is now on display at Lotus Hethel, just down the corridoor from reception. I say "think" as that car, although having the same "active suspension" badging is on reg. plates merely saying "LOTUS".
it's actually for sale now, www.lotusforsale.com/ads/lotus-esprit-dry-sump-turbo-active-suspension-essex-pre-production/
I've forgotten all about this. Remember reading about this Lotus Esprit in an engineering magazine as a lad.
I see this has popped up in everybody’s suggested videos.
The contrast between the old and active suspension was dramatic. Can't help but think the standard car was dialed to super soft so as to make it obvious. Either way, what a sweet design they were.
By the way folks, John Miles (the presenter) was a formula 1 driver for lotus in the late 60’s..
why didn't this suspension technology catch on? It seems amazing
It used up too much power.
@@joevarga5982 $$$$ power you mean..
@@michaelcelani8325 Engine power.
Price, I guess. There was an active suspension Citroen Xantia.
@@Rapscallion2009- you mean Citroen DS from 1955.
1983 Lotus: "Cranfield-built digital controller containing an improved version of the Lotus Active algorithm, which can separately modify the response of each chassis parameter and cleverly re-combine the different modes (roll, pitch and heave) to provide an appropriate actuator response."
2022 Mazda: "Zoom Zoom"
I preferred Top Gear when the show was about cars and the technology.
That 'computer' on the dash. 😂 Looks like something out of a Jules Verne or HG Wells novel.
I had a 1987 Isuzu Impulse "Suspension by Lotus" , It was a great car but a little under powered, So, I stuffed a v6 turbo in it from a Trooper II.. After relocating the battery and taking out some seats and AC system and putting a few more mm of tire under it.... It was on a rail.
6:14 MY BOY DUMPED. Stance boys worked at Lotus, Confirmed.
Williams F1 used active suspension in the early 1990s until it was banned by the FIA. Lotus was always at the forefront of innovation, thanks to Chapman. Now it's just a badge. Sad...I enjoyed riding in my brother's Esprit JPS ltd edition back in the 80s.
Banned by the same FIA who like to tell us how F1 drives Innovation?
Disappointed I couldn’t see the underwater fins behind that suspension setup.
Never knew that Hammond was this tall in his besties!
Did lotus Evora implement us? There wasn’t any body roll in those hard corners, very impressive for the times!
Ca you imagine the producer who said...lets make Top Gear fun and entertaining?! BBC "this is automotive journalism and it will be taken seriously" . who is the new hire? Jeremy Clarkson.
Back in the days when Top Gear was an informative television programme rather than a comedy with cars.
I now want to buy a Lotus Esprit
Same here
39yrs ago wow!
Oh thanks very much - that's me now hankering after a 1980's/90's Esprit
I love that reddish color.... same as in Bond movie.
General Motors worked with Lotus and make a prototype Corvette with the Lotus active hydraulic suspension
Lotus is still the best at making cars that both ride and handle well.
It would have been nice if Lotus had continued their Active Suspension program. I think that electromagnets are better than hydraulics or pneumatics, in terms of performance, and I am pretty sure that Lotus would have gone in that direction if given enough time.
+Ben Ferguson
...and money.
+Ben Ferguson Not really far to complicated mechanical system (would be to expensive to build) And the new springs on supercars these days are electromagnetic :) for instance mc laren
I see this exact car every day !!!
@@lewis72 money changes everything
Lotus is a British firm I am proud of, they seem to create the Fun in Function
I maybe bias, due to being born in Norfolk But the Esprit has been my favourite car longer than any other. Yes, even longer than my first love and poster car, the TR7
Lotus was well ahead of it's time.........................can you imagine what they could do today with suspension/handling if they had the budgets they had back then before the marketing and accountants got involved.
Damn, that thing cornered dead flat, then ate up the bumps after the corner! ...this Lotus test track wouldn't be the future Top Gear track, would it?
No. This is the Lotus factory track in Norfolk. The TG track was apparently designed by Lotus, but is at a different location.
Top Gear track is at Dunsfold Aerodrome in Surrey. Worth visiting for the Wings & Wheels show
That's insane tech for 1993
1983 !
Great great post!! Thanks :-)
Is there any possible way you can put the rest of your episodes on RUclips. I can't seem to find them all and I would appreciate watching all 11 of them. Thank you.
John Mills. The blueprint for captain slow
John Miles, who was a Forumla 1 driver and ace development engineer. Most definitely not slow.
@@pashakdescilly7517 Neither was Captain slow. He took the Veyron on a top speed run.
Go back in time with magnetic dampeners and absolutely blow their minds.
This is.. actually interesting and informative. Nothing like the brain rot they have on TV nowadays. (allegedly, haven't watched TV in years)
Better action here than James Bond....that window crack/explosion burglar protected where it left the audiences WTF
Months after that i was introduced to a BBC 'B'.
This is way beyond active damping, there are no springs or dampers, each corner of the car has a hydraulic ram only. The power, complexity and expense of the rams is probably why it never happened for mainstream cars. My memory may be wrong but I thought there was some talk of reading the road surface in advance eg laser or something to warn the computer of whats ahead before it reaches the wheels, but quite a challenge, a brick would look the same size as a cardboard box to the laser but one is very solid and the other would collapse under the wheel, all the time the cars weight has to be supported. In the end springs are so much simpler. Sorry to ramble.
that bit at the end reminded me of the ladder bar on a gnx, where the rear of the car lifts when loaded up
basically, the military application was to keep tank guns level at all times, sneaky Lotus :P
Lotus had a badged-up Scimitar tank for Active Suspension development work at Hethel...it was very fast & impressive...👌
Can it bunny hop spike strips?
This car is for sale on EBay UK right now!
The front end is Triumph Herald and the rearend is, essentially, Lotus Europa. Both cars have a very supple ride. The Europa is much lighter and the better drvers car. The Esprit is more spacious. Both catch on fire equally well. Active suspension on this test car...well we know how that went...
So did Lotus ever get this active suspension put into there production Esprits? Shoot, I remember when team Williams I think put this on there early 90s Formula 1 racers and were untouchable. Active suspension is awesome.
No.
They're there for their afternoon tea. Remember that sentence, you obviously need the help.
The engine on that one wasn’t stock either. No mention of that unfortunately.
Honestly this format of top gear is still better than the current tripe they're putting out since the magical trio left, the only one worth his salt is Chris Harris, and even he doesn't go into much technical detail of any of the cars, it's gone too far into the comedy side of Top Gear
your suspetion system was on : Aktive
This car has just come up for sale on eBay .....if only I had a spare 80 grand
wow 80k !!
Easy: soft spings, hard dampers....specifically, slow rebound...makes for a slightly crashy ride but does not induce roll.
u have no idea whatu talkin aboot;
Neocon X never showed such problems. Hydraulic system ARE reliable but should have a really good maintenance to keep working.Hydraulic systems generate a lot of heat. Also cause fatigue to flexible components like hoses which should stand high pressure, ozone attack ( yeap, ozone destroys rubber), "fluid ramming" and heat itself. that's way hoses must be changed every amount of operation hours at heavy equipment. The cooler and cleaner the longer they last.
Also, they weigh more than traditional suspensions, and the load applied to the engine to feed the system results in power absorbtion and higher fuel consumption. Recently, many luxury cars and SUVs have pneumatic suspensions: they are amazing When they work, and amazingly expensive when they break down. Range Rover drivers know something about that.
Very cool tech! I wonder how this hydraulic system from 1983 compares to modern (e.g. 2020+) electronic damper systems... I imagine the hydraulic might be superior, but extraordinarily expensive, but electronic achieving 90% of desired performance for a fraction of cost!
Hydraulics in suspension have proven effective in handling but not so much in reliability. Mercedes-Benz's Automatic Body Control delivered the best ride money could buy but quickly turned into a nightmare at 50k miles when the series of valves, hoses and pumps began to age. Same with Citroen; same with Land Rover Discovery SE-7.
Untrue fir the early citroen systems, noone knew how they worked or wanted to work on them...
All that would fail were the cylinders, on each corner, its still a masterpiece of design and is by default the comfiest ride of any car...
The reason it didnt take off really was down to citroen dealer networks, the techs didnt wish to work on them, so the dealers didnt sell them ...the simplicity of spring and damper won out ...shame, they ride like a magic carpet.
And its hydropneumatic, not really hydraulic, the pressure in the precharged cylinders is effectively the spring, the hydraulics are the instant medium that this pressure is supplied with to keep the vehicle almost perfectly level .
Its an absolutely genius system...eats potholes. Handles corners and can even off road pretty well.
And it will drive on three wheels.
We had two Citroen BXs back in the day. Only one had hydraulics issues and that happened with more than 350.000 km on the clock. The suspension overall required far less maintenance than any steel-springed car I had at the time or since.
@@varmastiko2908 the xantias got a little more complex than the bx but essentially its a dead simple system.
And almost all cars have hydraulic suspension too. What you think the oil filled hydraulic damper on nearly every car is?
Its hydropneumatic suspension. The spring is the air the lever and weight transfer is done hydraulically.
They talked so much about how bad the suspention and not even question how modern tires would makes these ride alot better
A square car on a square screen as God intended 👍