The Horn of Joramun Can Bring Down The Wall (and already did)
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- Опубликовано: 8 сен 2024
- The horn of Joramun legend seems to make a lot more sense under our new view of the wall and the way it was built and rebuilds itself.
That thing definitely can and did bring down the wall and likely will again.
I've been devouring these videos, while I'm not convinced all these theories will come true I do find the theorizing incredible thought-provoking and entertaining, thanks for the content dude
Weirwoods in an ice shell!
Winter Power!
Turtle the great and powerful?
Green age mutant ninja seers🤙
You guys are all awesome! 😎
Singer power
Most compelling ASOIAF theory I've ever heard. With this theory in mind, I think I can actually imagine a pretty ominous potential Epilogue to TWoW: somebody blows the Horn of Winter (Sam's old warhorn) on the Isle of Faces, and at first nothing happens, but then the weirwoods all around them just start to shake for some reason. This could come after a revelation about the nature of the Wall from a Bran chapter, but it might be even more ominous without one. It would leave the falling of the Wall implicit, maybe to be shown in the Prologue of ADoS, which is scheduled to take place at or beyond the wall according to established pattern.
As for who could blow it, it could be Euron, it could be Sam. My pet theory (that I just came up while writing this) is that it's Littlefinger, who either blows it or has it blown without knowing what it is, as part of his wedding to Sansa on the Isle of Faces. He's the Lord of Harrenhal and the Lord Paramount of the Trident after all, and there are theories that it's Harrenhal and the Riverlands that he'll ride out to conquer with the Knights of the Vale, and not the North like it is in the show. He's got the hots for Sansa, that much is obvious, and his whole arc seems to be building up towards gaining power and marrying her. Legitimizing Sansa and setting her up as a claimant to Winterfell would accomplish both, and marrying on the Isle of Faces full of weirwoods would make perfect sense, since the northerners marry in front of weirwood trees. It would fit into Petyr's personal arc as well as the arc of the series. It could even fit into Sansa's arc (a romantic wedding on a mystical island, to someone who finally cares for her), depending on how much of a twisted Stockholm syndrome she continues to develop towards Petyr.
But most of all, there are theories that ASOIAF is in some ways a reimagining of Ragnarök, which would fit with the World Tree metaphor. Bloodraven is pretty obviously inspired by Odin (sacrifices eye for knowledge, uses spy ravens, has knowledge of impending doom but can't seem to stop it), and Robert Baratheon could be seen as Thor (maybe, bit more of a stretch, but both have a big hammer, are blustering, warlike, dragon-slaying oafs, and Thor is poisoned by a snake, while Robert is killed by secretly feeding him strongwine, in a manner that could be described as treacherous or snake-like). In this version of Ragnarök, the chaotic enigmatic prankster god Loki is pretty clearly Littlefinger. He can already be considered to have set the events of the series in motion in Book 1, but I think there might be something poetic and GRRM-esque in him bringing down the Wall, too, where he brings about what appears to be an apocalypse at the moment of achieving all his personal, machiavellian goals. Also fits with the curse of Harrenhal and all that, as well as the unconfirmed pattern that all Epilogue POVs are from noble houses.
Of course, the Horn of Winter would have to make its way from Oldtown to the Isle of Faces in a way that isn't completely forced. But who knows, TWoW will be a long book, and it'll probably be paced more like ASoS than Feast or Dance with the way the plot is escalating.
EDIT: I've already edited this comment a bunch of times to add to it, but a marriage between Houses Stark and Baelish would have a ton of Ragnarök symbolism. "Winter is Coming" is obviously a chilling nod to the Horn of Winter being blown, but the sigil of House Stark is also a wolf like Fenrir, and the sigil of House Baelish is the Titan of Braavos with fiery eyes, which at least in my mind evokes Surtr the Fire Giant pretty heavily.
EDIT 2: This is getting excessively fanfic-y, but the sigil of House Strong of Harrenhal also looks like the bifrost, which is destroyed during Ragnarök. Maybe the reference is that House Strong is already destroyed, and the world thrown out of whack. Or maybe Ser Robert Strong is in attendance for some reason and fucking dies (Arya comes and murders him, Gravedigger tries to rescue Sansa, leading to Cleganebowl but less stupid... idk idk idk). Anyway, a bunch of houses could be in attendance, whose sigils and house words could forebode the end of the world.
EDIT 3: Also since all Prologue and Epilogue POVs end up dying, maybe Littlefinger blows the horn himself and dies from it. Precedent for people dying as the cost of blowing magical horns is established with Euron's Dragonbinder, and the cover of the book will pretty certainly be a horn.
A lot of good ideas here, hard to say specifics or who will be where and when but I really like the idea of the horn of joramun being blown before weirwoods somewhere in the south and having an effect on the wall thousands of leagues away
@@loooongneck Yeah, it's impossible to know for certain. But I feel like if we accept that weirwoods are magical (which isn't even a theory at this point, it's basically confirmed in Dance) then the Isle of Faces with all its weirwood trees is massively conspicuous for a location that has yet to make an actual appearance in the mainline books.
Also, since George likes to write parallels and foreshadowing into his prequels and auxiliary books, it's worth noting that it's speculated in The World of Ice and Fire that the Children of the Forest broke the Arm of Dorne using the Hammer of the Waters on the isle. Which could be analogous to breaking the Wall of weirwoods by using the Horn of Winter on the same isle. Maybe there's even something about the abundance of weirwoods that could amplify the effects of weirwood magic. But again, highly speculative and bordering on fanfiction.
The Wall's fortresses used to have walls on their Southern side as well. It was only after the Night's king incident and the first king-beyond-the-Wall, Joramun, that those defences were banned. Brandon probably broke the Wall to envelope the Nightfort from both the South and the North as a desperate measure to end the threat the Night's king represented.
Hi! I just want to say: fanflippintastic! The whole Weir-wall just sits- and if it fits it sits. Love it. Great job. I appreciate the supportive text. Example of delivered in a clean, straightforward presentation; the cartoons are real cute; and (crucially) your voice is pleasant with a nice cadence, so it's easy to listen to you.
Really looking forward to what you have in store for us -as well as seeing your channel grow. Kudos!
Dit pas baie goed. Ek sal nie verbaas wees as dit wel die geval in die boeke ook is nie. Of ten minste soortgelyk hieraan.
I binged a third of your content in about 2 days. These are incredible. Thank you for the awesome theories!
Let's not forget as well that while the Night's Watch had strength each generation would build it higher and higher with the cold solidifying it.
what if building up means killing more people so more blood helps the wall to grow taller?
Dude, you nailed it! I have seen every ASOIAF page and watch their shit yours is in the top 3
I have nothing really to add I’m just very much enjoying this series and want to leave a comment as an offering to the algorithm gods 🙏🏻
Bro you made a great series here, it all fits so nicely with the text. I hope some big ASOIF youtubers give you a shout !
Great vids! I’m learning a lot from your insights. Based on what you have been proposing, I’m wondering g if the legend of still hearing the scratching inside the wall is actually the guys tied to the trees inside scratching to get free. Pretty grizzly. And not in simulate to denaris licking of the two people in the empty safe after she recovers her dragons. Also, the weeping of the wall could be an analogy for the actual tears that the guys are crying that are tied to the trees. ie the wall is actually made of their tears! Maybe you already suggested these concepts. But I just wanted to throw those out there =] 🌊🏄♂️
all very good points! I do like the idea of the wall weeping as a hint that tears are sad. The wall is bad, tears are sad. It all works on the thematic level too. Idk about all made of their tears but I bet there are tears mixed in with the water and blood
Gods. This is the good stuff :D
You and Lightbringer (and Gray Waste Tim) are true 'drengr'(the ultimate viking compliment)
Skål :)
And keep up the good work
If a 1000 ft wall of ice crumbled, how did it not totally obliterate the Nightfort? Pieces of ice the size of the castle would be falling on top of it.
This is a good point but also the Nightfort we see is ruins of a thing that has been rebuilt or at least added onto a few times I believe. Perhaps the turning of the tree into a hidden well was done in the rebuild? I think Bran calls the kitchen one of the oldest parts of the ruins. But in any case this is a good point the original Nightfort would likely have taken a lot of damage.
@@michaeltalksaboutstuff Is it possible the Nightfort was built at ground level at a time when there was no wall?
Ehh..it would be a little bit more damaged than that. All the forts would be obliterated and buried entirely. It’s a pretty massive hole in the theory you need to contend with for your theory to work rather than shrugging it off. If a theory is correct it’s not going to have problems like this. It’s why I struggle with a lot of these outlandish theories being correct. One hole and it’s all over with stuff like this.
Currently binging every theory video, wild to have followed the theory discussions for so long and not encountered any of these. Seriously ring true in my opinion, great channel 🙌🙌🙌
I’m a fanatic and your videos are absolutely amazing my brother
Bro WHAT IF THE FACES ARE SHAPED THAT WAY BECAUSE THEY ARE LITERALLY JUST LAYER AFTER LAYER OF BARK FORMED OVER A FACE
Edit: BIG OUCH for the Black Gate face
Totally believable. Not all of the faces are though, as the free folk carve some when they cross the wall - but this could just be them honoring/imitating the original faces in the woods
Bran sees a child of forest being enveloped in weirwood roots if I remember correctly, blood raven also is similarly trapped in the roots. I think this definitely holds a lot of truth for the origins of the first weirwood faces even later one were created by men artificially
what if the purpose of the horn is to make the woods pump water faster. The build up pressure would make the ice break but at the same time it means the horn can also be usefull to build the wall (since it could accelerate the process in which the wall "grows")
I think blowing the horn makes the trees in the wall grow, which would produce the shaking effect to break the ice on the wall as you describe, but likely that after the incident they blew it to make the wall taller.
Been binging ur content. Thank u
I wish the GoT people never touched Three Body Problem. I LOVE those books and they destroyed them. Just realizing (again) how they f'd up GoT. Thank you for all this content.
The lack of any legend of the wall returning/regrowing/expanding makes me skeptical. The nights watch would have every reason to maintain this information over the years as it's central to their mission. Even if it had been downplayed, I think there'd still be some kind of rebuilding legend like we have for other weirdness around the wall.
To me it's more likely that if a wall was taken down, it was a smaller, simpler one. Then I could see something like, "well sure Wall v.1 had some issues, but we're now on Bigger, Better, Broader Wall V.2 and we dont need to worry about horns" , and over time the two walls got conflated into a single one. Anything talking about a wall going up is lumped together as one event.
It makes more sense for a tiny part of the wall to be taken down and then rebuild by the weirwoods or by the nightwatch
I feel like this series is exactly what George was thinking with his ideas. Great work! Out of all the theories I feel like these that you've came up with are spot on.
Night's* King, not Night King, but 10/10 video. Honestly really great. Have you watched David Lightbringer's videos on the Night's King and Queen?
Excellent series
I still subscribe to the “Horn of Winter causes earthquakes” theory (hammer of the waters and such). The “waking giants” can just refer to the trees being unveiled as the quake shatters the ice
Love it. I don’t know if it will all come falling down by shaking. The dragon horn supposedly lets you control a dragon. I wonder if the horn of winter would let you control the giants and deactivate the wards or open gates to allow the others and the wights to pass through or over.
So the wall is made of giants! I remember seeing this somewhere!
Jormungandr is a serpent in Norse Myth. Jormun means big or vast. Gandr means elongated beings (serpents, worms) and a binding being. So, you can use a snake like a giant serpent to bind him to the world (tree, maybe).
Dragons are serpents. I believe they were made by the mages of old Valeria with Blood/fire magic. I think they mated Harpies with wyverns, giant earth worms. That dragon with a woman's head by Nissa Nissa and Azor Ahai on the HotD tapestry, that's a harpie beast. A precursor of the Dragon, in my head Cannon. I believe the Harpie spirit is one head of the dragon. I also believe that the Horn of Joramun and the Dragonbinding horn do the same thing. I think the horn that helps to bind dragons will also work on other magical creatures like the White Walkers. I think if GRRM really does have the NK, or a White Walker on a Dragon, yes, that will bring down the wall. I also think any dragon Jon rides, he will bind with because he blew the Horn of Joramun. Maybe I'm wrong, but maybe I'm right.
Omg. Amazing.
Oh I just thought about something, do you think this has any connection to the five forts over in Essos? They’re also standing in a line and implied as a barrier to some spooky scaries 🤔
Idk how deeply it will be explored but I imagine the 5 forts have to be a similar blood magic type border making other like beings near it but idk for sure
@@michaeltalksaboutstuff update: I am now watching your “the wall makes the others” video where you mention this exact thing 😅 Coolcoolcool
to me you would definitely have to blow the joramun horn in to the well to make the tree shake it's branches.
maybe even to the bottom of the well so it matches up even more with waking up giants from the earth.
The horn starts the rumbling
Mance being in the watch himself once should know the knowledge nights watch have on the horn?
Algormancy!
Hey I dont know if you read coments on old videos but I wanted to ask you a question. I enjoy what im seeing but I thought about the weirwood tree that youve convinced me was a branch in the nightfort that bran sees. The implication in my mind is that the tree and probably all the frozen trees are still growing. Which means they are still being fed maybe. and theyve probably growing for thousands of years
So, the Wildlings and Free Folk seem to have a lot of lore and knowledge, and in Westeros at least there is little to no documentation to the truth of most of this. I wonder if the Wildlings have a library or a travelling library of writings, or perhaps one of them now at the wall can reveal the true origins of the wall, how the CotF and Weirwoods came to be, seers stuck within the wall, blood sacrifice, etc. (If that was to tie into the show at all, how would Viserion's death beyond the wall work? He is made from blood magic, or would he not be a sacrifice because he does not die AT the wall and is killed by NK?)
Secondly, you said that Wargs were historically sent to the wall, they were outcasts. Might this be why NK comes for Bran? Because he should be north of the wall as a WW or NK?
Bran always wanted to be a Knight and I have wondered if, like in some of GRRM's other play-on-words, if the meaning of words have been lost through time, and rather the Night's King is really KNIGHT'S King, and similarly, Night's Watch is Knight's Watch.
I think it's also been considered that, what if WW and NK are not the enemies, but in fact man are the enemy, and rather than protecting the realms from what's beyond the wall, the wall's intentional, initial use was to protect those beyond the wall from men? Therefore, Night's King = Knight's King and Night's Watch = Knight's Watch would make more sense.
I'm a newcomer to your channel, have watched the series, haven't read the books but listening to audiobooks while running around after a 1yo so apologies if any of this has been rebuked or convoluted!
Interesting thought, what if when the horn was blown and the wall fell down they left the horn where the wall would rebuild leaving the horn inside of the wall
Brandon the breaker could have done this on purpose to seal the horn. Leaving the freefolk or who ever wants to use the horn not be able to. This could be why the nights watch are confident that the horn is either fake or can't be used. This would force the freefolk to either try mine the horn out of the wall or bluff that they have it
Company of the Cat thinks it works like a garage door opener!
What about the horn creating an earthquake? In The World of Ice and Fire say this at one point:
"And the old gods stirred, and giants awoke in the eartth, and all of Westeros shook and trembled. Great cracks appeared in the earth, and hills and mountains collapsed and were swallowed up..."
When Joramun blew the horn he "woke giants from the earth".
Question, why do Wildlings live north of the wall, like why do they live on the WhiteWalker side and it seams they agreed to this, they are locked on the bad side. There seems to be a pack with the southerners that is forgotten, but it never made sense if they were willing helpers. It seems later the wall was used to keep them out but not always the case
Possibly because they refused to follow the pact or kneel to the rules or just that they would rather go north than follow the kings south of the wall but idk. If it is set up on purpose it would possibly be because someone north of the wall to fight the watch would lead to more blood for the trees than no one there and no battles when the others aren't active.
Don't make me name you come down here
@michaeltalksaboutstuff buddy. your theory about the wall does seem somewhat logical. you have presented evidence for it. The surrounding stuf about the COTF, Weirwoods etc. seems extremely logical and in fact you're probably spot on about a lot of it.
But there is no way that the wall's construction is so convoluted. Your theory, with the diagrams, is just too convoluted for a great piece of writing.
You gotta re-think it.
Could this first shaking of the wall be relative at all the to Hammer of the Tides stuff or a different time period?
Maybe the horn is the actual sword of azor ahi because of a mistranslation like the prince/princess sword/weapon and it releases a sound that burns like the description used with the dragon horn.
Bran the Breaker- of the Pact?
👍
But where did the giant mound of ice go from initial collapse?
Melted over the thousands of years and was recycled into the wall by the trees. Same as all the wall when it weeps. All of it melts and rebuilds all the time.
@@michaeltalksaboutstuff could be. Still seems like you'd need roots on or about the surface level of the ice to pump water into the edges. But no one sees that.
But hey, it's a great theory. I'm excited to hear more.
Why is this horn getting more hype than the dragon horn victarion has n is bringing back to westeros
Perhaps his name was Brandon perhaps he slept in this very room- old nan
Jon night king #changed after death
Alot of speculation spoken like it is fact
How do you know that a section of the wall wasn't destroyed like the dragon did then rebuild it?
certainly could have been just a big section taken down and it regrew itself
Bran the "Breaker" & the "Broken".
Both broke
When will I be blown?
When someone finds your horn.
You seem to have alot of faith that asoiaf ends in a fairytale..
🤍❤🤍❤🤍❤
I think all the horns are fake af and wildlings wişl be disappointed of it lol also euron will get eaten by one of the dragons when hes tryna claim it
Makes fake predictions then builds more fake predictions off the previous fake predictions.
Nah, that's every great empire of the dawn theory.
Another fantastic video. Some real world inspiration for "old ways being very nearly overthrown but then erased by history" can be found here: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_regime_change
👍