Compassion is the residue of seeing there's no self ,it doesn't work the other way around .Every object reacts according to its conditioning ,that's all . But when you feel quilty about a reaction there's still the words 'should and ' would' .I think it was Ramesh Balsekhar who said and i quote ;People can accept that everything is an illusion but they can not eccept that they are an illusion aswell .
Exactly! You put into "non dual speak" what I saw in the mirror not too long ago. I didn't see "my reflection." I saw what other people call me. Now, I know when I see someone else, my view is just as limited. My current best guess is that "Self" is a relationship, not a reflection.
Everything you said is coming from a duelist state / mentality. There are no objects or subjects in the non-duelist state. There just IS. In the several mystical experiences I've had, it has been shown to me that everything is part of the whole. Once this has been shown, there is a deep sense of responsibility to take care of everything that makes up the whole. My experiences, being in a non-duelist state, have deepened my sense of compassion and empathy... not turn me into a narcissist. What hurts someone else hurts me because we are all one. "The richness of the one lies just behind the two" - Ram Das
"What hurts someone else hurts me because we are all one". Not really. Many people die horrible and painful deaths every day all around the world, and it doesn't affect you in the least. Don't say things you don't truly experience. And stop quoting masters. Just speak out of your own experience.
@CT2507 It does affect me deeply. Do you not feel the suffering of those who suffer? Pain and suffering is relational. I may not feel the pain of someone dying of cancer on the other side of the planet as acutely as I would if someone in my own family was but I still feel the pain. Just like I feel the pain of someone who is homeless on the side of the street begging for change. When I hear of a story of suffering my heart aches as does my heart ache simply knowing there is suffering happening all over the world. I do what I can to transmute suffering knowing that, ultimately, it is my pain as well. I'm not sure why you would get upset over me quoting one of the best quotes ever in regard to non-duality. It is exactly what this topic is about and is steeped in wisdom. The quote speaks to me because I have experienced the state of non-duality just as Ram Das obviously had.
All enlightenment is is having the understanding that we are, when boiled down, one, non-dualist entity. Although I could not say for certain, I believe the state of non-duality is just that. A state. Not a final destination. Its a place we visit from time to time. In death and in mystical experiences via meditation, psychedelics, breath work, and sometimes entirely spontaneous. @@OffGridMind
@@zachstone6717 You don't understand or are unwilling to understand. The minute somebody is within your field of view and you see their suffering then you also suffer. That's normal and to be expected. But the thousands of people dying in pain all over the world are not within your span of attention, and for those you feel nothing. For them you are unconscious. So stop saying "you hurt when others are hurt because we are all one". That is a lie. It is something your read in a book and adopted it as a principle because it sounds nice. You don't get anywhere on the spiritual path by pretending. " I may not feel the pain of someone dying of cancer on the other side of the planet as acutely as I would if someone in my own family was but I still feel the pain" You don't feel them at all unless someone mentions their dying for you. What are you a child?? How can you deceive yourself so badly on this subject? "When I hear of a story of suffering my heart aches as does my heart ache simply knowing there is suffering happening all over the world". Yes exactly. WHEN you hear a story of others suffering THEN you get reminded and start feeling pain. But if no one tells you, you couldn't care less. That is not unity. That is selective interest. You suffer per principle because you hate the idea of a war going on. That is mentally induced suffering. Not unity with their souls. I get upset when you quote masters because I can tell how much you deceive yourself on basic beginner issues like this one. This is kindergarten spirituality and shouldn't even be up for debate between grown ups. Hiding behind wise quotes and imagining you feel the pain of others is lying to yourself. To achieve true progress and results all such lying and pretending must stop. If you can not be brutally honest with yourself then pretty quotes from masters will do nothing for you. Because it is the same immature mind that processes both the pretty quote and saying silly stuff like, I can feel the pains of others because we are all one.
What they may claim is that the consequences of the seeing/non seeing is all what you said respect and compassion, that they are working on the top level which would then fix everything underneath automatically overtime due to no self trying to get somewhere being a real belief. The other perspective is that yes cultivation and practice are great but as they can be done from the reference point of an ego they are deceptive and egoic in nature although it doesn't seem so to others due to how good the practice was performed that it sealed all traces of authenticity :) For me personally I loved watching papaji, he is a beutiful man and doesnt necessarily stick to certain talking points very spontaneouse.
I think over the next few decades we'll start to get a sense that in the, "canonical" sense of things the, "Neo Vedanta" was taking one small part of the picture and blowing it out of proportion and taking everything that, "seems to be" and attaching to it everything that's shamanic or all the different parts of the Christian contemplative tradition- we've got this awful mess where even, "divine love" practice is just, "realizing we don't exist" which in practice means, "until you've had the Adi Shankaracharya acid trip you just don't get it give me another 5,000$ and maybe you'll get another chance." I wish instead of fighting Mike Tyson Jake Paul would fight Bentinho Massaro.
At the most basic level, that which we call spiritual is that which expands our basic sense of empathy from "me and you" to the perspective of "we". "We" is defined as group subjectivity. "We" no longer says, "I'm looking at the Eiffel Tower. Are you looking at the Eiffel tower too?" In the previous sentence there are two objects, Eiffel Tower and "you". Our most basic spiritual move is our move to the perspective that says, "We are looking at the Eiffel Tower." At this point the "you" is no longer object. I am only halfway through the video, and a sadness compels me to comment, the sadness from listening to a narrator ultimately trapped in isolation with an overbearing sense of objectifying others. Another example of the most basic move toward spiritual healing is the subtle move from "you are in front paddling and I am back here steering the canoe" to "we are maneuvering the canoe through the rocks". ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Our perspectives are not static regarding Duality and Non-Duality. Rigidity in this matter is itself an existential blind spot. In fact, my mind inherently attempts to rewrite this video's title to - "The Existential Blind Spot That Makes Contemporary Non-Duality Inaccessible And Therefore Makes Duality Meaningless And Rather Sad".
I'm sad my film made you feel sad. Humans share a lot and the shift from subject/object to a single entity called 'we' or 'us' can indeed bring a more expansive view. What we don't share, however, is the experience of each other's nervous system. We can never feel in our sentience what others feel in theirs - the pain in my big toe, say, will not be felt in your big toe (unless the conditions that manifested my pain are repeated for you). As such, it is possible for us to turn a blind eye to each other's suffering. Cultivating compassion, through dedicated practices, helps to bridge this gap. That cultivation can be, in my experience, aided by the acceptance that to all other people, we are just another person. No one is as important to us as ourselves. This self-cherishing needs to be worn down through practice in order to protect the practitioner from sliding into narcissism. I agree that duality is meaningless and rather sad, so I practice towards non-duality protected and tempered by compassion. My film attempts to explain what happens when the former is done without the latter. Thank you for commenting!
I think the subject/object discussion is making it uncessessarily complicated as to what non-duality may be missing. I know you have a K anecdote video, so maybe I could give K's opinion, because he disagreed fundamentally with the non-dual viewpoint. Because that viewpoint says that because ultimate reality is undivided, you too are (ulimately) undivided. What K said here is that even though ultimate reailty is undivided, the ego obviously creates division here and now, and that that division is very real in the here and now, just look around at the state of the world. So for K, that division had to be patched and the means (though not a method) was attention to all the movement of thought which creates the seperate observer. Now, non-duality says the separate observer is not real so why bother attending to the movement of thought, just carry on as you are. Mutation is not necessary. For K, mutation was necessary and possible. Easy? Heck no...
Hehe i like your comments. Thank you the reminder! I grew up in the SGI and have been acquainted with this idea of non duality for a long time. I disucssed this with my freind - subjective and objective realities/experience - in terms of the concept of esho funi. I would just like to say, i think you are saying that making a cause for your life that ultimatley seperates you from the fusion of the subjective and objective is what i think you identifying as creating misery right? I chant nam myoho renge kyo to fuse my inner self with the macro self, praising my essential nature also. Its good to know that your focus too is on respecting the object with unlimited compassion. And a mistake to think you can rid yourself of your ego. I would say there is no other way to be happy. I think Nicheren put it like bowing to a mirror as it bows back. It took an ego to be able to write this response! Anyways i just want to say, thank you!
understanding "non-dual" concepts and philosophy, even on a highly detailed level, does not = awakening. It never will. If you are asleep in your bed, dreaming that you are Superman in Metropolis and you meet a dream character that teaches you all about how you are actually a guy named Tom and you are actually sleeping in a bed in London, you can talk to that person for as long as you want, and understand in great detail what your predicament is and he may even describe London and your bedroom in great great detail. None of that equals actually waking up as Tom and seeing without a doubt that Superman and Metropolis were literally all made up and never existed. The problem with most non dual RUclipsrs is that they have no concept of the difference between actually waking up as Tom, and just understanding and believing that it is all a dream, all the while still living as Superman in a world they believe to be real and independent of them. And they will not have any experience of the difference until they wake up as Tom. Instead of doing the hard work needed to wake up as Tom (which has been described in detail by many) they are satisfied with just telling themselves over and over again that it is all a dream, it is all a dream, I don't really exist, you don't really exist, I'm really Tom, I'm really Tom. It is ridiculous.
Quite right, in the matter of some perception of what appears to be myself. But to everyone else that's exactly what I am, an object. I have to take that into account in order to deal with them in a beneficial way.
@@OffGridMind thinking is good for practical things. It's what sets us apart from other species. But we don't think. Thoughts appear. And thoughts will try and grasp what this is. Until it doesn't. Then we laugh. 😆
@@OffGridMind Don't place this limit on yourself. We do "get it" when we transcend the mind. I have had a state of Samadhi which lasted about an hour, in which there was no mind, just awareness. And I have had glimpses where I saw myself from outside of the body in which the body/mind was doing its things as per auto pilot and I was observing from "outside", or from a place of no movement. So these glimpses have made me believe that it is actually within our human capability to "get it", some day.
lady why do you make videos, if you were earnest you would be silent,, so many new age gurus springing up like poisonous mushrooms... nothing needs to be said its all been said before for thousands of years..the rest is just entertainment.......a mere sideshow.
Compassion is the residue of seeing there's no self ,it doesn't work the other way around .Every object reacts according to its conditioning ,that's all . But when you feel quilty about a reaction there's still the words 'should and ' would' .I think it was Ramesh Balsekhar who said and i quote ;People can accept that everything is an illusion but they can not eccept that they are an illusion aswell .
Exactly! You put into "non dual speak" what I saw in the mirror not too long ago. I didn't see "my reflection." I saw what other people call me. Now, I know when I see someone else, my view is just as limited. My current best guess is that "Self" is a relationship, not a reflection.
Everything you said is coming from a duelist state / mentality. There are no objects or subjects in the non-duelist state. There just IS.
In the several mystical experiences I've had, it has been shown to me that everything is part of the whole. Once this has been shown, there is a deep sense of responsibility to take care of everything that makes up the whole. My experiences, being in a non-duelist state, have deepened my sense of compassion and empathy... not turn me into a narcissist. What hurts someone else hurts me because we are all one.
"The richness of the one lies just behind the two" - Ram Das
Of course it's coming from a dualistic state/mentality, because I am not enlightened 😂
"What hurts someone else hurts me because we are all one".
Not really. Many people die horrible and painful deaths every day all around the world, and it doesn't affect you in the least. Don't say things you don't truly experience. And stop quoting masters. Just speak out of your own experience.
@CT2507 It does affect me deeply. Do you not feel the suffering of those who suffer? Pain and suffering is relational. I may not feel the pain of someone dying of cancer on the other side of the planet as acutely as I would if someone in my own family was but I still feel the pain. Just like I feel the pain of someone who is homeless on the side of the street begging for change. When I hear of a story of suffering my heart aches as does my heart ache simply knowing there is suffering happening all over the world. I do what I can to transmute suffering knowing that, ultimately, it is my pain as well.
I'm not sure why you would get upset over me quoting one of the best quotes ever in regard to non-duality. It is exactly what this topic is about and is steeped in wisdom. The quote speaks to me because I have experienced the state of non-duality just as Ram Das obviously had.
All enlightenment is is having the understanding that we are, when boiled down, one, non-dualist entity. Although I could not say for certain, I believe the state of non-duality is just that. A state. Not a final destination. Its a place we visit from time to time. In death and in mystical experiences via meditation, psychedelics, breath work, and sometimes entirely spontaneous. @@OffGridMind
@@zachstone6717 You don't understand or are unwilling to understand.
The minute somebody is within your field of view and you see their suffering then you also suffer. That's normal and to be expected. But the thousands of people dying in pain all over the world are not within your span of attention, and for those you feel nothing. For them you are unconscious. So stop saying "you hurt when others are hurt because we are all one". That is a lie. It is something your read in a book and adopted it as a principle because it sounds nice. You don't get anywhere on the spiritual path by pretending.
" I may not feel the pain of someone dying of cancer on the other side of the planet as acutely as I would if someone in my own family was but I still feel the pain"
You don't feel them at all unless someone mentions their dying for you. What are you a child?? How can you deceive yourself so badly on this subject?
"When I hear of a story of suffering my heart aches as does my heart ache simply knowing there is suffering happening all over the world".
Yes exactly. WHEN you hear a story of others suffering THEN you get reminded and start feeling pain. But if no one tells you, you couldn't care less. That is not unity. That is selective interest. You suffer per principle because you hate the idea of a war going on. That is mentally induced suffering. Not unity with their souls.
I get upset when you quote masters because I can tell how much you deceive yourself on basic beginner issues like this one. This is kindergarten spirituality and shouldn't even be up for debate between grown ups. Hiding behind wise quotes and imagining you feel the pain of others is lying to yourself. To achieve true progress and results all such lying and pretending must stop. If you can not be brutally honest with yourself then pretty quotes from masters will do nothing for you. Because it is the same immature mind that processes both the pretty quote and saying silly stuff like, I can feel the pains of others because we are all one.
What they may claim is that the consequences of the seeing/non seeing is all what you said respect and compassion, that they are working on the top level which would then fix everything underneath automatically overtime due to no self trying to get somewhere being a real belief.
The other perspective is that yes cultivation and practice are great but as they can be done from the reference point of an ego they are deceptive and egoic in nature although it doesn't seem so to others due to how good the practice was performed that it sealed all traces of authenticity :)
For me personally I loved watching papaji, he is a beutiful man and doesnt necessarily stick to certain talking points very spontaneouse.
I think over the next few decades we'll start to get a sense that in the, "canonical" sense of things the, "Neo Vedanta" was taking one small part of the picture and blowing it out of proportion and taking everything that, "seems to be" and attaching to it everything that's shamanic or all the different parts of the Christian contemplative tradition- we've got this awful mess where even, "divine love" practice is just, "realizing we don't exist" which in practice means, "until you've had the Adi Shankaracharya acid trip you just don't get it give me another 5,000$ and maybe you'll get another chance."
I wish instead of fighting Mike Tyson Jake Paul would fight Bentinho Massaro.
Mooji is B.S
At the most basic level, that which we call spiritual is that which expands our basic sense of empathy from "me and you" to the perspective of "we". "We" is defined as group subjectivity. "We" no longer says, "I'm looking at the Eiffel Tower. Are you looking at the Eiffel tower too?" In the previous sentence there are two objects, Eiffel Tower and "you". Our most basic spiritual move is our move to the perspective that says, "We are looking at the Eiffel Tower." At this point the "you" is no longer object. I am only halfway through the video, and a sadness compels me to comment, the sadness from listening to a narrator ultimately trapped in isolation with an overbearing sense of objectifying others. Another example of the most basic move toward spiritual healing is the subtle move from "you are in front paddling and I am back here steering the canoe" to "we are maneuvering the canoe through the rocks". ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Our perspectives are not static regarding Duality and Non-Duality. Rigidity in this matter is itself an existential blind spot. In fact, my mind inherently attempts to rewrite this video's title to - "The Existential Blind Spot That Makes Contemporary Non-Duality Inaccessible And Therefore Makes Duality Meaningless And Rather Sad".
I'm sad my film made you feel sad.
Humans share a lot and the shift from subject/object to a single entity called 'we' or 'us' can indeed bring a more expansive view. What we don't share, however, is the experience of each other's nervous system. We can never feel in our sentience what others feel in theirs - the pain in my big toe, say, will not be felt in your big toe (unless the conditions that manifested my pain are repeated for you). As such, it is possible for us to turn a blind eye to each other's suffering. Cultivating compassion, through dedicated practices, helps to bridge this gap. That cultivation can be, in my experience, aided by the acceptance that to all other people, we are just another person. No one is as important to us as ourselves. This self-cherishing needs to be worn down through practice in order to protect the practitioner from sliding into narcissism. I agree that duality is meaningless and rather sad, so I practice towards non-duality protected and tempered by compassion. My film attempts to explain what happens when the former is done without the latter. Thank you for commenting!
I think the subject/object discussion is making it uncessessarily complicated as to what non-duality may be missing. I know you have a K anecdote video, so maybe I could give K's opinion, because he disagreed fundamentally with the non-dual viewpoint. Because that viewpoint says that because ultimate reality is undivided, you too are (ulimately) undivided. What K said here is that even though ultimate reailty is undivided, the ego obviously creates division here and now, and that that division is very real in the here and now, just look around at the state of the world. So for K, that division had to be patched and the means (though not a method) was attention to all the movement of thought which creates the seperate observer. Now, non-duality says the separate observer is not real so why bother attending to the movement of thought, just carry on as you are. Mutation is not necessary. For K, mutation was necessary and possible. Easy? Heck no...
Hehe i like your comments. Thank you the reminder! I grew up in the SGI and have been acquainted with this idea of non duality for a long time. I disucssed this with my freind - subjective and objective realities/experience - in terms of the concept of esho funi. I would just like to say, i think you are saying that making a cause for your life that ultimatley seperates you from the fusion of the subjective and objective is what i think you identifying as creating misery right? I chant nam myoho renge kyo to fuse my inner self with the macro self, praising my essential nature also. Its good to know that your focus too is on respecting the object with unlimited compassion. And a mistake to think you can rid yourself of your ego. I would say there is no other way to be happy. I think Nicheren put it like bowing to a mirror as it bows back. It took an ego to be able to write this response! Anyways i just want to say, thank you!
Thank you for clarifying that.
understanding "non-dual" concepts and philosophy, even on a highly detailed level, does not = awakening. It never will. If you are asleep in your bed, dreaming that you are Superman in Metropolis and you meet a dream character that teaches you all about how you are actually a guy named Tom and you are actually sleeping in a bed in London, you can talk to that person for as long as you want, and understand in great detail what your predicament is and he may even describe London and your bedroom in great great detail. None of that equals actually waking up as Tom and seeing without a doubt that Superman and Metropolis were literally all made up and never existed. The problem with most non dual RUclipsrs is that they have no concept of the difference between actually waking up as Tom, and just understanding and believing that it is all a dream, all the while still living as Superman in a world they believe to be real and independent of them. And they will not have any experience of the difference until they wake up as Tom. Instead of doing the hard work needed to wake up as Tom (which has been described in detail by many) they are satisfied with just telling themselves over and over again that it is all a dream, it is all a dream, I don't really exist, you don't really exist, I'm really Tom, I'm really Tom. It is ridiculous.
❤
The non dualist would reject being an object. You have objecthood but ARE not an object
Quite right, in the matter of some perception of what appears to be myself. But to everyone else that's exactly what I am, an object. I have to take that into account in order to deal with them in a beneficial way.
Boom!!! Thank you for the brain-glue-catalyst. Brilliant.
Non-Duality, Existential, Blind Spot, subject-object. All just mind chatter. Rest in -this-. If you need to think, then you have not got it.
I don't think we ever really 'get it'! As for needing to think, sometimes it's really handy :) Thank you for commenting.
@@OffGridMind thinking is good for practical things. It's what sets us apart from other species. But we don't think. Thoughts appear. And thoughts will try and grasp what this is. Until it doesn't. Then we laugh. 😆
@@StuartJ We do indeed, it is SO funny!
@@OffGridMind Don't place this limit on yourself. We do "get it" when we transcend the mind. I have had a state of Samadhi which lasted about an hour, in which there was no mind, just awareness. And I have had glimpses where I saw myself from outside of the body in which the body/mind was doing its things as per auto pilot and I was observing from "outside", or from a place of no movement. So these glimpses have made me believe that it is actually within our human capability to "get it", some day.
lady why do you make videos, if you were earnest you would be silent,, so many new age gurus springing up like poisonous mushrooms... nothing needs to be said its all been said before for thousands of years..the rest is just entertainment.......a mere sideshow.