Heresy is real and it’s serious. It’s also important to challenge it. But often this whole ‘Heresy Hunter’ thing is just human ego and pride from people who enjoy being ‘right’ and calling other people ‘wrong’. Conviction is great , but it needs to come with humility.
100%. somebody needed to say it. we must be careful when branding someone that term. if we're wrong then we are a bearer of false testimony. I don't think many people take that seriously. So many of the "discernment" ministries are just revilers..
@@DPK5201 It's a reference to the movie "The Princess Bride". If you search for that and "inconceivable" on RUclips you'll probably find clips of those scenes, but essentially a character keeps saying that after someone does something incredible.
The pastoral approach to dealing with those who might be confused or misled is incredibly important. We must recognize the difference between ignorance and willful defiance, treating each situation with grace while still upholding the boundaries of orthodoxy. This video serves as a call for discernment, humility, and a return to thoughtful engagement with church history and theology. Well done!
I typically listen to the podcast versions of these videos but had to stop by here and say that the thumbnail for this video is top tier. Also very good info presented. Your content has been incredibly helpful for me as I have been navigating through a lot of these deep theological questions and I researched into church history more.
This is almost every other major religion's view. God or gods are giving you all sorts of tests and if you're good or clever enough you'll make it. Christianity really is unique in saying you simply can't do it.
This video just came at a perfect timing. Was having a conversation with an orthodox and he just straight up called me and all the Protestants Herectic. This word has been abused so much. God bless you immensely, Gavin. Gotta watch and digest
The EOC official position is that we Protestants and Roman-Catholics are heretics for affirming filioque. The Athanasian creed basically calls them heretics for denying filioque. Also a lot of Protestants, including Blomberg apparently (14:48 you see ‘salvation by grace through faith’ as an essential of the faith). Of course Protestants affirm an invisible Church so not every Christian who is in communion with the East or Rome is a heretic. It is however very common in Protestant history to call the doctrines of Rome and the East heretic.
According to Orthodoxy, you are outside the faith and damned. You and Roman Catholics are heretics. That's just a matter of fact despite modern "squishiness" and ahistorical ecumenical and conciliatory language that flies in the faith of historical pronouncements and the teachings of the Orthodox Churches insofar as they have broad agreement between them. The same is true of the Papist's required, orthodox and official views of you as a Protestant, whatever obfuscations and contradictions Vatican II might offer, flying in the face of everything that the Church has taught until the 20th century,
Honestly - I was interested in Eastern Orthodoxy for a while but the behavior of Orthodox Christians online is often very off-putting. So I lost all interest. I also once saw a video of them singing the anathemas. Also not very appealing IMHO. I wouldn't say EO or RCC aren't Christians but I get annoyed when they turn around and proclaim all Protestants heretics and say stupid things like, "come home to Rome" or "come home to Orthodoxy." No current Christian denomination has perfectly preserved what the early Christians believed. Because neither did they pray for Mary's intercession nor did they kiss pictures.
I'm not really a fan of Ligonier as someone who leans more provisionist but I like the definition given in their blog by an author named W. Robert Godfrey in an article titled What Is Heresy: "Some people use the word heresy simply to mean any error or a fairly serious error in theology. But classically the word heresy was used to describe those theological errors so serious that it would deprive one of salvation...there are some errors that are so huge that they really are cutting us off from God, because we have so misunderstood Him and His truth. And that’s what heresy classically was used for in the church."
Or more practically, as it pertains to its use in scripture, heresy means an error that divides and undermines the church. This is why it was so wrong for the church to call Palagius and Origin both heretics in absentia... judged without a defense, as both were functionally Orthodox, they functioned as healthy totally non controversial leaders who, after a debate or (much) later investigation revealed idiosyncratic ideas, or ideas that appeared heterodox, so they were condemned. Ironically most people today don't condemn Origin despite his objectively kooky ideas, because he himself never pushed these ideas as doctrine, he was utterly non-divisive, and his testimony and scholarship speak for themselves, he was a brilliant faithful man who's speculative notions that should never saw light of day... did. But with Palagius, evidence of his far more orthodox views didn't survive because they were destroyed because he was judged a heretic for political reasons... rigged kangaroo court... its only recently that some of his writings which were misattributed to others (namely Pseudo-Jerome) can be seen... and they're totally uncontroversial. Heresy should NEVER be declared in absentia. Heresy should NEVER be judged and a consequence meted out when someone's idiosyncratic ideas aren't being used to divide or undermine the church. IMHO, these are simple principles that should always be the first barrier to abusing Heresy. When Heresy is abused this way, it actually CAUSES division and subversion. Indeed, this usage of Heresy is thus functionally, itself actual real Heresy.
Hi, @HistoryNerd808 The actual biblical definition of "hairesis"/"hairetikos" (the Greek) is "sect"/"sectarian". That's the only sense of the biblical word. The modern or classical use, as you put it, is not the biblical use, and we should not use it at all, I think. I think we need to recognize that it's not a sin to have an incorrect opinion. It's a sin to form sects or be sectarian/divisive within the Church (Titus 3:10).
@@openlyaverage The Church is the entire body of believers, Protestant, Catholic, and Orthodox. In other words, even under your definition, it means errors that make you not a Christian anymore. You're making a distinction without a difference.
Heavenly Father protect my children. I’m overwhelmed because I’m on my own as a single mother. My husband passed many years ago. I have no one to turn to, but you. Heavenly Father. Give me strength Lord my sons are both special needs children. Guide me as I struggle to buy groceries, and as I struggle to pay rent every month. Please keep my sons safe and protect us from the evil ones of this world.💕
Here’s the mother of heresy declarations found in the NT, but ironically a lot of the heresy hunters don’t seem to pay attention to it: “But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be under a curse!” (Gal. 1:8, BSB).
Speaking of guardian angels. My father told me once that while my mother was in another country she used work at night shifts. And since she didn’t have a car, she walked home in the middle the night alone. My father would always pray for her protection everyday and one time as he was praying he fell asleep. And he told me in his dream, he saw a man who looked like a great warrior , wearing what looked like a brown armor and carrying a great sword flying over my mother as she was walking home, telling him that there is nothing to worry about. As soon as he woke up he called my mother and found out she was walking the same street and wearing the same clothes she was wearing in his dream.
I respect you very much Dr. Ortland , I hope your triage brings greater Church unity . Your the one Protestant I would recommend Protestants to listen to to .
This is true! John MacArthur openly teaches the Nestorian heresy and his cultlike followers shut down all criticism of him. Tim Keller said a few slightly woke things in 2020 and evangelicals treat him like a traitor to the faith
Killer did say some whacked out things that needed to be addressed, he was heretical! MacArthur is getting worse with his hyper Calvinism ! If you’re gonna teach the Bible, you have to be square on it, and accurate James 3:1
@@jjphankargument from ignorance. You gotta watch this video man. Keller didn’t say anything that contradicted the gospel. His views may contradict an extremely fundamental view but not the gospel.
John MacArthur has never affirmed Nestorianism. You continue to slander him. You may think that his statements about Mary or the blood sound Nestorian, but that is different then openingly affirming it and calling him a heretic. Did you even watch the video? Gavin's whole point was not to go around and label people a heretic so carelessly.
@@joshuajohansen1210 he should correct his statements then. Is Mary the mother of God? Is Jesus’s blood God’s blood? No one, especially church leaders are exempt from critique.
Great stuff Gavin! I'm starting to see the need for understanding true heresy as people are "becoming Christians" not because they see Jesus as king and savior, God in the flesh, but because they like social conservatism and hate secular progressivism, and think Christian values are better for society. Having a proper understanding of our beliefs is crucial in thinking about what we are actually calling people to.
@@jjphank most genius people are hahaha. Look up the brightest minds in Church history, the greatest philosphers and the most influencial politicians/dictators. 80% of them possess a little or a lot crazy. Calvin is nothing compared to Luther or Jerome, to name a few.
@@lierox9 isn’t God Omnipotent and powerful enough to give free will to Angels and mankind? Yes! So you see it from the foundational chapters do not eat from the tree or you will die then genesis 4, God tells Cain , sin is crouching at your door, It desires to master you, but you must overcome it; ie God not want Cain kill his brother. The Bible has a problem with all five points of the tulip from the beginning!
Any church's doctrine that leads people to place their trust in the church rather than in _the redemptive, finished sacrifice of Jesus Christ on the cross_ is properly labeled a heresy.
The actual biblical definition of "hairesis"/"hairetikos" is "sect"/"sectarian". If a person is trying to divide the Church in any way, whether by drawing people away to a new denomination, or simply acting in a way that sows mistrust, dislike, that is the *only* biblical concept of "hairetikos" behavior (see Titus 3:10). I think Gavin is mistaken that there is *ever* any valid reason to use the modern word "heresy". There isn't. We should replace it with actual biblical definition, which as I said, is sect/sectarian or division/divisive.
I do hope we can get to a point where we can have conversations about the differences at the secondary and beyond levels, but it is true that we are not yet there. Lord-willing, content like this will move us in that direction. Also: have fun storming the castle, Gavin!
That Gavin Montoya thumbnail is 🔥. 😆😆. I do believe the word heresy gets thrown about more than it's necessary. It seems that every disagreement is met with a heresy claim nowadays.
@DerrickStarr-l1y I think it's because people don't know what the biblical meaning of "hairesis"/"hairetikos" is. The meaning is "sect"/"sectarian" or "division/"divisive". It is not a sin (in the Bible) for a Christian (or anyone, perhaps) to have an incorrect theological opinion. It is a sin to be divisive within the Church (Titus 3:10). The "h-bomb", as it's called, is nothing more than a tool of division, I think. For those of us who desire unity (a la John 17:21ff, Eph 4:3), we should stop allowing the sectarian ("hairetikos" in Greek) people to frame the debate by using the pseudo-biblical word "heresy". Replace it with the words "sect/division"/"sectarian/divisive" to regain the biblical focus and teaching, imo.
I'm glad you are addressing this issue. It is disturbing how we bander the word heresy around,. I believe people can be wrong but we need a more robust idea of what is wrong against what is heretical. Thankyou for this it does add clarity but does need much more attention given to it.
I've come to the conclusion that 95% of people who use the word "heresy" (and like 99.9% if they use the word regularly) are immensely spiritually immature.
@Mighty_Jared That is all too true, in my experience, as well. The actual biblical concept of "hairesis"/"hairetikos" is "sect/"sectarian". It is ironic that the people who most often use the modern idea of "heresy" are most guilty of the biblical teaching against being sectarian/divisive ("hairetikos"). It is very unfortunate, since unity is meant to be one of the important ways that the world can know Jesus is from the Father (John 17:23).
I’m sorry you have experienced this. As Christians we called to a very high standard to show unbelievers the light of Christ with His grace. Please know that Jesus Christ calls you to Him and He loves you so much so that He gave His life for you. He is perfect and He will never fail you. On behalf of Christians everywhere who have not shown the light of Jesus to you. I’m sorry.
Last week, I asked an apologist about "heresy", false teaching and such. Then I see your video for today. Have you been following me, bro? 😉 It's a topic worth responding to, on my own channel. Thanks for the work that you do. Your video on Mike is still going. You are a definite servant. :)
Hello, @ChristianityExplained The modern concept of "heresy" is an interesting pseudo-biblical term. There is no biblical concept or teaching about the modern idea of "heresy". The Greek words "hairesis"/"hairetikos" mean "sect"/"sectarian". (It's easy to look up the NT uses of those words to check/prove that.) It's not a sin to have a wrong theological opinion. It's a sin to be divisive (Titus 3:10) within the Church. When we act as if it's a sin to have an incorrect opinion, by using the modern word "heresy" (and its forms), we aid those who want to divide the Body of Christ. We should replace that word with the actual biblical words "sect/sectarian" (or "division/divisive") in order to keep a biblical focus on what God really cares about!
Excellent, Gavin, you have the gift of clarity. As a Swedish Young-Earth Creationist, I must say that all the expounders of Creation-Science that I've listened to always say that it is _not_ a Gospel issue. I'm sorry if some rank and file adherents miss that point.
I'm guessing you don't have an exact date on just how young it is? That sorta thing I've seen crop up and it's really bad. I too think it's more likely than not that the earth isn't super old, say more than 100k years.
Gavin. I really appreciate your passion for unity. I have learned a lot about triage from your book and videos. But I think the examples you give do in fact make give these videos (and even your book) a tone of self defense. I think it could be more effective (I am thinking a people with fundamentalist tendencies I would want to reach with these ideas) if you would use examples that are less personal and that you can treat in a more clinical way. It would also be helpful for me to see a video where you apply these principles all these other examples of issues that you mentioned existed in this video rather than applying it to these two issues again. Again, your ministry has been immensely helpful for me generally speaking and i appreciate you. I specifically appreciate the way you discussed the eternal destiny of those who affirm heresy in a nuanced way.
22:10 "there's some issues that come close to heresy maybe they're really serious they affect the our experience of the Gospel in some way but they don't quite fall into being heresy themselves" I immediately think about the debate between Universalism/Annihilationism/ECT. Still unsure whether this is first rank or second rank.
Our job is to regulate entrance to the church. God's job is to regulate entrance to heaven. We should have more caution when we speak of the latter. Man. Spot on. If this was a book that would be the money quote for the description.
So many Catholic pundits have accused Pope Francis of heresy. Either directly or by implication, they accuse the person the official catechism says is the supreme authority on doctrine and worship of being clueless about what "real" Catholicism is. "For the Roman Pontiff, by reason of his office as Vicar of Christ, and as pastor of the entire Church has full, supreme, and universal power over the whole Church, a power which he can always exercise unhindered." CCC 403. It's remarkable that so many expert Catholics either aren't aware of, or ignore, the basic teachings on who has the authority to judge what's heresy and what isn't heresy. Doubly remarkable that they call this person a heretic! As far as the Protestant world goes, matters are hardly better.
I’ll take the position of Tyndale over the group that burned him alive for wanting to let all people have access to God’s word in their common vernacular.
It's much better among protestants because the Scriptures officially write it out what is required for salvation and what is heretical. Scripture was enough to refute the Arians - who called the Lord Jesus 'God' but didn't think he was true God. Scripture tells us those who deny the resurrection, who live in sin, aren't true Christians. And those who deny the true Good News.
Gavin, you mention at the end of the video someone “sincerely seeking the truth… to the best degree that they can.” I love this concept and you’ve mentioned it a lot in your videos (e.g., “good faith onlookers” and such). Someone pressed me on this concept the other day to establish categories for what it looks like to be “sincere.” Is there any way you could do a short video on this topic? What does it look like to seek God sincerely-in good faith? How can someone know if they’re doing that the best they can?
It’s amazing how differently the Protestant mind thinks about this subject than the Orthodox mind… fascinating. It reminds me how much politics and American culture specifically in American Protestantism plays such a huge role.
Protestantism doesn’t have deep roots & is easily influenced by secular values which together with unbiblical personal interpretation has resulted in the modern day relativism with its many “truths”
I don’t think that is the best definition of heresy because that could really be anything. I think looking at the historical view of heresy being an incorrect view of the nature or God and matters that contain with that is a much better one. I feel like by your definition something as simple as hymns or CC music is a heresy or pews or regular chairs as a heresy because they can funny enough cause division in a local church. I hope this does not come off rude
Love Truth Unites and agree with the majority of this video. However I do wish to share the apparently less popular opinion that it’s disheartening that Gavin won’t accept or grant communion to non-Trinitarians who confess and believe the explicit and salvific biblical teaching that Jesus is God’s Son, the Lord Messiah whom God has raised from the dead. This is the crux of Christianity and despite what one may think the gospel of John is trying to say, the purpose of him writing it: “but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.” (John 20:31) I will continue to have a general appreciation of Gavin’s work and consider him my brother in Christ, despite what he may think of people like me.
On your point regarding triaging, I actually think social media and other written media helps create division more. There's only so much one can fit in a tweet or a post, and one can read that in the different light. We need to be careful and gentle in social media
Thanks for this video Dr Ortlund! I needed a correction on what heresy meant and god delivered it via you. I have a question though, would Peter Enns or other liberal/progressive theologians/scholar's who claim to be Christian's be heretics?
Many dont know what heresy is. It seems like many decide on their own and thus if that person was to bielieve heresy themselves they wouldn't know it. Goal posts can be moved and those people accuse heresy as they wish to anyone.
Can you please, if the topic would interest you enough to make time for it, make a video on why you think the denial of sola fide is not heresy? A lot of Protestants (including myself) believe it is an essential doctrine, because in the places the Bible teaches sola fide, it is pretty harsh for people who don’t belief it. Thanks for the clear video today!
I love this - to be useful the words must have some particular meaning - otherwise we might as well just say someone is incorrect. Since the greek word for heresy meant "choice" (haíresis) and was usually used to refer to those beliefs that were divisive and destroyed faith I think we have the contours for a useful definition. The analogy I like most is the story of Solomon and the two mothers. The true mother was willing to lose the baby rather than choose to divide it in half. If you look at the early heresies they almost all involve dividing a divine mystery, or, choosing a piece when one should have faith in the whole. I once read a quote (I think early church father) who said the heretics are usually correct in what they accept and incorrect in what they reject. The mystery of Christ as fully God and man (rejecting either is heresy), rejecting any part of the Trinity, etc... I don't think whether or not something is "essential" is the best definition, I think it is probably necessary but not sufficient for the term to keep its proper meaning. For instance an atheist may deny the existence of God. This belief is essential to the Christian faith, but I think it cheapens the term heresy if we apply it to this case. In this case the person is not divisive within the Church or one its essential doctrines that require faith, rather they are rejecting the Church and its faith outright.
Heresy: The division of a essential doctrine of the faith by rejecting the whole and choosing only a part of it. This applies in particular to what Paul refers to as the "Mysteries", those doctrines divinely revealed that require faith (as opposed to just a logical doctrine). Paul says Christians should regard themselves as stewards of these mysteries. 1 Corinthians 4:1
I read the book you'd referenced in a past video, that being "When Doctrine Divides." That book is very succinct and addressed this issue of who qualifies as a heretic. That book was my first dive into doctrinal triage. Blessings
I love your first point: if someone is concerned about a particular teacher, it is best to ask them what they mean. I like to preach “talk to people, not about them.“ That is just Mt 18 in practice. I wonder whether it is really possible to identify heresy apart from some kind of creed or confession of faith. Certainly, we can look at the ancient ecumenical creeds as a good standard that most Christians would accept. But what about other issues not covered there? For example, when I was in college, some of my Calvinist friends (half jokingly) Call me a heretic because I hold a Wesleyan soteriology. It seems like you need more specific confessions of faith to judge whether something is heretical. Something I hear a lot online is the use of the term “apostasy“ to describe churches that have fallen away from traditional, moral teachings, on sexuality and marriage, for example. I am inclined to think that “heresy“ would be a more appropriate term (consistent with what you have said about issues of sanctification), but what would you say about those churches? Confused? Heterodox? Heretical? Apostate?
Bruh that thumbnail. In all seriousness Gavin, I don’t get why you attract so much smoke. You’re such a charitable guy. Sure some times I disagree with you, but don’t we all disagree? As Christians, we should focus on what unites us.
Heresy (heresis) is any deviation from a given standard in accordance for how the word is explicitly used in scripture. The question is what the deviation is from.
![Chino Pacas - Smith (ft. Junior H & Fuerza Regida) [Video Visualizador Oficial]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/BVK6k56X30Y/mqdefault.jpg)
“I do not think it means what you think it means” 🤨
incredible thumbnail
Where do I order my t-shirt?
Gavin turned into "André the Giant" 😂.
Inconceivable!
Dr. Ortlund, please never stop using your incredible thumbnails 😂
I second this notion !
Heresy is real and it’s serious. It’s also important to challenge it.
But often this whole ‘Heresy Hunter’ thing is just human ego and pride from people who enjoy being ‘right’ and calling other people ‘wrong’. Conviction is great , but it needs to come with humility.
100%. somebody needed to say it.
we must be careful when branding someone that term. if we're wrong then we are a bearer of false testimony. I don't think many people take that seriously. So many of the "discernment" ministries are just revilers..
I listened on Spotify but had to leave a comment here when I saw the thumbnail. Inconceivable!
I'm an old geezer so need enlightenment on why all the inconceivable comments!
@@DPK5201 It's a reference to the movie "The Princess Bride". If you search for that and "inconceivable" on RUclips you'll probably find clips of those scenes, but essentially a character keeps saying that after someone does something incredible.
@@DPK5201it’s from a movie called “The Princess Bride”
Got it. Thanks.
The pastoral approach to dealing with those who might be confused or misled is incredibly important. We must recognize the difference between ignorance and willful defiance, treating each situation with grace while still upholding the boundaries of orthodoxy. This video serves as a call for discernment, humility, and a return to thoughtful engagement with church history and theology. Well done!
Gavin you continue to be in my prayers for your efforts on this channel. Don’t give up. You’re doing important work. The church needs this.
I typically listen to the podcast versions of these videos but had to stop by here and say that the thumbnail for this video is top tier. Also very good info presented. Your content has been incredibly helpful for me as I have been navigating through a lot of these deep theological questions and I researched into church history more.
Came for the thumbnail, stayed for the great content!
26:19 - "God is not looking to trick you." Amen!
This is almost every other major religion's view. God or gods are giving you all sorts of tests and if you're good or clever enough you'll make it. Christianity really is unique in saying you simply can't do it.
This video just came at a perfect timing. Was having a conversation with an orthodox and he just straight up called me and all the Protestants Herectic. This word has been abused so much. God bless you immensely, Gavin. Gotta watch and digest
The EOC official position is that we Protestants and Roman-Catholics are heretics for affirming filioque. The Athanasian creed basically calls them heretics for denying filioque. Also a lot of Protestants, including Blomberg apparently (14:48 you see ‘salvation by grace through faith’ as an essential of the faith). Of course Protestants affirm an invisible Church so not every Christian who is in communion with the East or Rome is a heretic. It is however very common in Protestant history to call the doctrines of Rome and the East heretic.
According to Orthodoxy, you are outside the faith and damned. You and Roman Catholics are heretics. That's just a matter of fact despite modern "squishiness" and ahistorical ecumenical and conciliatory language that flies in the faith of historical pronouncements and the teachings of the Orthodox Churches insofar as they have broad agreement between them.
The same is true of the Papist's required, orthodox and official views of you as a Protestant, whatever obfuscations and contradictions Vatican II might offer, flying in the face of everything that the Church has taught until the 20th century,
Just shows that Protestants are more catholic than Roman Catholics and Orthodox..
Honestly - I was interested in Eastern Orthodoxy for a while but the behavior of Orthodox Christians online is often very off-putting. So I lost all interest. I also once saw a video of them singing the anathemas. Also not very appealing IMHO. I wouldn't say EO or RCC aren't Christians but I get annoyed when they turn around and proclaim all Protestants heretics and say stupid things like, "come home to Rome" or "come home to Orthodoxy."
No current Christian denomination has perfectly preserved what the early Christians believed. Because neither did they pray for Mary's intercession nor did they kiss pictures.
I'm not really a fan of Ligonier as someone who leans more provisionist but I like the definition given in their blog by an author named W. Robert Godfrey in an article titled What Is Heresy: "Some people use the word heresy simply to mean any error or a fairly serious error in theology. But classically the word heresy was used to describe those theological errors so serious that it would deprive one of salvation...there are some errors that are so huge that they really are cutting us off from God, because we have so misunderstood Him and His truth. And that’s what heresy classically was used for in the church."
Or more practically, as it pertains to its use in scripture, heresy means an error that divides and undermines the church.
This is why it was so wrong for the church to call Palagius and Origin both heretics in absentia... judged without a defense, as both were functionally Orthodox, they functioned as healthy totally non controversial leaders who, after a debate or (much) later investigation revealed idiosyncratic ideas, or ideas that appeared heterodox, so they were condemned.
Ironically most people today don't condemn Origin despite his objectively kooky ideas, because he himself never pushed these ideas as doctrine, he was utterly non-divisive, and his testimony and scholarship speak for themselves, he was a brilliant faithful man who's speculative notions that should never saw light of day... did. But with Palagius, evidence of his far more orthodox views didn't survive because they were destroyed because he was judged a heretic for political reasons... rigged kangaroo court... its only recently that some of his writings which were misattributed to others (namely Pseudo-Jerome) can be seen... and they're totally uncontroversial.
Heresy should NEVER be declared in absentia. Heresy should NEVER be judged and a consequence meted out when someone's idiosyncratic ideas aren't being used to divide or undermine the church.
IMHO, these are simple principles that should always be the first barrier to abusing Heresy.
When Heresy is abused this way, it actually CAUSES division and subversion. Indeed, this usage of Heresy is thus functionally, itself actual real Heresy.
Agreed. This definition should be more widespread than it is.
Also agreed!
Hi, @HistoryNerd808
The actual biblical definition of "hairesis"/"hairetikos" (the Greek) is "sect"/"sectarian". That's the only sense of the biblical word. The modern or classical use, as you put it, is not the biblical use, and we should not use it at all, I think.
I think we need to recognize that it's not a sin to have an incorrect opinion. It's a sin to form sects or be sectarian/divisive within the Church (Titus 3:10).
@@openlyaverage The Church is the entire body of believers, Protestant, Catholic, and Orthodox. In other words, even under your definition, it means errors that make you not a Christian anymore. You're making a distinction without a difference.
Wake up babe, a new Gavin Ortlund video just dropped 🗣️
Babe stop please
And his dad just came out to endorse Kamala. Hmmm.
Heavenly Father protect my children. I’m overwhelmed because I’m on my own as a single mother. My husband passed many years ago. I have no one to turn to, but you. Heavenly Father. Give me strength Lord my sons are both special needs children. Guide me as I struggle to buy groceries, and as I struggle to pay rent every month. Please keep my sons safe and protect us from the evil ones of this world.💕
Stay faithful sister!!! I hope you find a good church in your area!
🙏🏻🙌🏻 praise God
I remember reading this same comment from you a couple of years ago on some video. The situation hasn't changed?
Here’s the mother of heresy declarations found in the NT, but ironically a lot of the heresy hunters don’t seem to pay attention to it: “But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be under a curse!” (Gal. 1:8, BSB).
Speaking of guardian angels. My father told me once that while my mother was in another country she used work at night shifts. And since she didn’t have a car, she walked home in the middle the night alone. My father would always pray for her protection everyday and one time as he was praying he fell asleep. And he told me in his dream, he saw a man who looked like a great warrior , wearing what looked like a brown armor and carrying a great sword flying over my mother as she was walking home, telling him that there is nothing to worry about. As soon as he woke up he called my mother and found out she was walking the same street and wearing the same clothes she was wearing in his dream.
Another excellent video. Always feel encouraged and helped by your videos.
I respect you very much Dr. Ortland , I hope your triage brings greater Church unity . Your the one Protestant I would recommend Protestants to listen to to .
Sad.
This is true! John MacArthur openly teaches the Nestorian heresy and his cultlike followers shut down all criticism of him. Tim Keller said a few slightly woke things in 2020 and evangelicals treat him like a traitor to the faith
Killer did say some whacked out things that needed to be addressed, he was heretical!
MacArthur is getting worse with his hyper Calvinism !
If you’re gonna teach the Bible, you have to be square on it, and accurate James 3:1
@@jjphank 🤔No such thing as 'Hyper' Calvinism. It's just consistent Calvinism. If consistency is a hard pill to swallow, then tough.
@@jjphankargument from ignorance. You gotta watch this video man. Keller didn’t say anything that contradicted the gospel. His views may contradict an extremely fundamental view but not the gospel.
John MacArthur has never affirmed Nestorianism. You continue to slander him. You may think that his statements about Mary or the blood sound Nestorian, but that is different then openingly affirming it and calling him a heretic. Did you even watch the video? Gavin's whole point was not to go around and label people a heretic so carelessly.
@@joshuajohansen1210 he should correct his statements then. Is Mary the mother of God? Is Jesus’s blood God’s blood?
No one, especially church leaders are exempt from critique.
I should have started with - Thank you for this video! Your teaching & ministry I find such a blessing.
Great stuff Gavin! I'm starting to see the need for understanding true heresy as people are "becoming Christians" not because they see Jesus as king and savior, God in the flesh, but because they like social conservatism and hate secular progressivism, and think Christian values are better for society. Having a proper understanding of our beliefs is crucial in thinking about what we are actually calling people to.
Yeah they aren't Christians, because they don't affirm the essential beliefs and don't have the Holy Spirit.
For sure a top ten Truth Unites thumbnail!
"John Calvin was not a theologian of softness"
What an understatement 😂
Calvin was a nut job
@@jjphank definitely wasn't but ok
@@jjphank most genius people are hahaha. Look up the brightest minds in Church history, the greatest philosphers and the most influencial politicians/dictators. 80% of them possess a little or a lot crazy. Calvin is nothing compared to Luther or Jerome, to name a few.
@@jjphank In what way? the "Calvinism" side of his teaching was standard, he did not bring this up new.
@@lierox9 isn’t God Omnipotent and powerful enough to give free will to Angels and mankind? Yes!
So you see it from the foundational chapters do not eat from the tree or you will die then genesis 4, God tells Cain , sin is crouching at your door, It desires to master you, but you must overcome it; ie God not want Cain kill his brother.
The Bible has a problem with all five points of the tulip from the beginning!
Any church's doctrine that leads people to place their trust in the church rather than in _the redemptive, finished sacrifice of Jesus Christ on the cross_ is properly labeled a heresy.
The actual biblical definition of "hairesis"/"hairetikos" is "sect"/"sectarian". If a person is trying to divide the Church in any way, whether by drawing people away to a new denomination, or simply acting in a way that sows mistrust, dislike, that is the *only* biblical concept of "hairetikos" behavior (see Titus 3:10). I think Gavin is mistaken that there is *ever* any valid reason to use the modern word "heresy". There isn't. We should replace it with actual biblical definition, which as I said, is sect/sectarian or division/divisive.
I do hope we can get to a point where we can have conversations about the differences at the secondary and beyond levels, but it is true that we are not yet there. Lord-willing, content like this will move us in that direction.
Also: have fun storming the castle, Gavin!
Thank you brother Ortlund for such a practical video, always such a blessing. May God continue to use your ministry✝️🕺
Mariology, specifically, calling Mary co-redemptrix with Christ, is heresy.
Excellent.
I absolutely clicked because of the thumbnail😂. Amazing!❤
Dr. O I love these family chats.
Thank you for your service to the body.
This is the best thumbnail yet!
Impeccable thumbnail
That thumbnail, though... 😂🤣. Seriously, great video.
I stopped listening to what I was previously solely so that I could commend you for your epic thumbnail. 10/10 for making me laugh
Thanks Gavin. This was just what I needed to hear today, yet again.
Great video! Nuanced and clarifying. And thanks for the indirect reference to me in the video😊
//Your friend in Sweden 🇸🇪
Thank you for the closing encouragement!
Thank you so much Dr Gavin
Great insights and helps! Thank you😎! Sharing👍🏻
That Gavin Montoya thumbnail is 🔥. 😆😆.
I do believe the word heresy gets thrown about more than it's necessary. It seems that every disagreement is met with a heresy claim nowadays.
@DerrickStarr-l1y
I think it's because people don't know what the biblical meaning of "hairesis"/"hairetikos" is. The meaning is "sect"/"sectarian" or "division/"divisive". It is not a sin (in the Bible) for a Christian (or anyone, perhaps) to have an incorrect theological opinion. It is a sin to be divisive within the Church (Titus 3:10).
The "h-bomb", as it's called, is nothing more than a tool of division, I think. For those of us who desire unity (a la John 17:21ff, Eph 4:3), we should stop allowing the sectarian ("hairetikos" in Greek) people to frame the debate by using the pseudo-biblical word "heresy". Replace it with the words "sect/division"/"sectarian/divisive" to regain the biblical focus and teaching, imo.
I'm glad you are addressing this issue. It is disturbing how we bander the word heresy around,. I believe people can be wrong but we need a more robust idea of what is wrong against what is heretical. Thankyou for this it does add clarity but does need much more attention given to it.
I've come to the conclusion that 95% of people who use the word "heresy" (and like 99.9% if they use the word regularly) are immensely spiritually immature.
True. Nowadays it seems to mean, "I disagree with you, therefore you're a heretic."
@Mighty_Jared
That is all too true, in my experience, as well. The actual biblical concept of "hairesis"/"hairetikos" is "sect/"sectarian". It is ironic that the people who most often use the modern idea of "heresy" are most guilty of the biblical teaching against being sectarian/divisive ("hairetikos"). It is very unfortunate, since unity is meant to be one of the important ways that the world can know Jesus is from the Father (John 17:23).
Thumbnail is AMAZING
True. Heresy should not be trivialized
Best thumbnail ever.
Please do not change the thumbnail
As an unbeliever, I’m baffled at how much Christians can tear down other Christians.
I’m sorry you have experienced this. As Christians we called to a very high standard to show unbelievers the light of Christ with His grace. Please know that Jesus Christ calls you to Him and He loves you so much so that He gave His life for you. He is perfect and He will never fail you. On behalf of Christians everywhere who have not shown the light of Jesus to you. I’m sorry.
Gonna have to agree with the rest of the comments section that the thumbnail is amazing
Last week, I asked an apologist about "heresy", false teaching and such. Then I see your video for today. Have you been following me, bro? 😉 It's a topic worth responding to, on my own channel. Thanks for the work that you do. Your video on Mike is still going. You are a definite servant. :)
Hello, @ChristianityExplained
The modern concept of "heresy" is an interesting pseudo-biblical term. There is no biblical concept or teaching about the modern idea of "heresy". The Greek words "hairesis"/"hairetikos" mean "sect"/"sectarian". (It's easy to look up the NT uses of those words to check/prove that.)
It's not a sin to have a wrong theological opinion. It's a sin to be divisive (Titus 3:10) within the Church. When we act as if it's a sin to have an incorrect opinion, by using the modern word "heresy" (and its forms), we aid those who want to divide the Body of Christ. We should replace that word with the actual biblical words "sect/sectarian" (or "division/divisive") in order to keep a biblical focus on what God really cares about!
Excellent, Gavin, you have the gift of clarity. As a Swedish Young-Earth Creationist, I must say that all the expounders of Creation-Science that I've listened to always say that it is _not_ a Gospel issue. I'm sorry if some rank and file adherents miss that point.
The notion that the world began in 4004 BC is Protestant.
I'm guessing you don't have an exact date on just how young it is? That sorta thing I've seen crop up and it's really bad. I too think it's more likely than not that the earth isn't super old, say more than 100k years.
@Roescoe an Anglican bishop came up with that date
@@fantasia55 Poor him. I assume you mean James Ussher? Seems like a foolish task that he failed at.
@@Roescoe Catholics are not required to take Genesis literally - days could be eons, etc.
Gavin. I really appreciate your passion for unity. I have learned a lot about triage from your book and videos. But I think the examples you give do in fact make give these videos (and even your book) a tone of self defense. I think it could be more effective (I am thinking a people with fundamentalist tendencies I would want to reach with these ideas) if you would use examples that are less personal and that you can treat in a more clinical way. It would also be helpful for me to see a video where you apply these principles all these other examples of issues that you mentioned existed in this video rather than applying it to these two issues again. Again, your ministry has been immensely helpful for me generally speaking and i appreciate you. I specifically appreciate the way you discussed the eternal destiny of those who affirm heresy in a nuanced way.
the final points on the goodness of God being our hope!!! fantastic. thanks
The princess bride us my favorite book
That thumbnail was not what I expected to see! lol😂
Best thumbnail ever
Love how you plastered your face on comical images. Thanks for a good laugh 😂
Best thumbnail yet!
22:10 "there's some issues that come close to heresy maybe they're really serious they affect the our experience of the Gospel in some way but they don't quite fall into being heresy themselves"
I immediately think about the debate between Universalism/Annihilationism/ECT. Still unsure whether this is first rank or second rank.
Always enjoy your videos :)
Our job is to regulate entrance to the church.
God's job is to regulate entrance to heaven.
We should have more caution when we speak of the latter.
Man. Spot on. If this was a book that would be the money quote for the description.
That was an amazing thumbnail. Please keep up with the good humor!
So many Catholic pundits have accused Pope Francis of heresy. Either directly or by implication, they accuse the person the official catechism says is the supreme authority on doctrine and worship of being clueless about what "real" Catholicism is. "For the Roman Pontiff, by reason of his office as Vicar of Christ, and as pastor of the entire Church has full, supreme, and universal power over the whole Church, a power which he can always exercise unhindered." CCC 403. It's remarkable that so many expert Catholics either aren't aware of, or ignore, the basic teachings on who has the authority to judge what's heresy and what isn't heresy. Doubly remarkable that they call this person a heretic!
As far as the Protestant world goes, matters are hardly better.
I’ll take the position of Tyndale over the group that burned him alive for wanting to let all people have access to God’s word in their common vernacular.
It's much better among protestants because the Scriptures officially write it out what is required for salvation and what is heretical. Scripture was enough to refute the Arians - who called the Lord Jesus 'God' but didn't think he was true God. Scripture tells us those who deny the resurrection, who live in sin, aren't true Christians. And those who deny the true Good News.
@joeoleary9010 He's not a heretic, just needlessly sloppy in public statements.
@fantasia55 yes, the bishop of rome is heretical for teaching a false Gospel, condemned in Galatians chapter 1 verse 9.
@@fantasia55words have meaning
Really great video as always!
Awesome video brother and very timely
Thank you for these videos you put out.
It took me an embarrassingly long time to figure out why Inigo didn't look quite right 😂
I could not breath after that thumbnail. I went into an unceasing laughing spree... well, unceasing until the kyocane powder kicked in and it ceased.
OK joker
Gavin, you mention at the end of the video someone “sincerely seeking the truth… to the best degree that they can.” I love this concept and you’ve mentioned it a lot in your videos (e.g., “good faith onlookers” and such). Someone pressed me on this concept the other day to establish categories for what it looks like to be “sincere.” Is there any way you could do a short video on this topic? What does it look like to seek God sincerely-in good faith? How can someone know if they’re doing that the best they can?
glory to God
Gavin Ortlund is a partial preterist?? This pleases me.
It’s amazing how differently the Protestant mind thinks about this subject than the Orthodox mind… fascinating. It reminds me how much politics and American culture specifically in American Protestantism plays such a huge role.
Protestantism doesn’t have deep roots & is easily influenced by secular values which together with unbiblical personal interpretation has resulted in the modern day relativism with its many “truths”
What an amazing and encouraging conclusion
Gavin wants me to watch his new video?
Aaaaaaas yooouuuu wiiiiiiish...
Love that topic. I take the Titus definition as "heresy" is first and foremost everything that goes beyond christ and leads to division.
I don’t think that is the best definition of heresy because that could really be anything. I think looking at the historical view of heresy being an incorrect view of the nature or God and matters that contain with that is a much better one. I feel like by your definition something as simple as hymns or CC music is a heresy or pews or regular chairs as a heresy because they can funny enough cause division in a local church. I hope this does not come off rude
Love Truth Unites and agree with the majority of this video. However I do wish to share the apparently less popular opinion that it’s disheartening that Gavin won’t accept or grant communion to non-Trinitarians who confess and believe the explicit and salvific biblical teaching that Jesus is God’s Son, the Lord Messiah whom God has raised from the dead. This is the crux of Christianity and despite what one may think the gospel of John is trying to say, the purpose of him writing it:
“but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.” (John 20:31)
I will continue to have a general appreciation of Gavin’s work and consider him my brother in Christ, despite what he may think of people like me.
Love the thumbnail 😂
On your point regarding triaging, I actually think social media and other written media helps create division more. There's only so much one can fit in a tweet or a post, and one can read that in the different light. We need to be careful and gentle in social media
I liked your last two points.
I love the thumbnail image! Hilarious
Thanks for this video Dr Ortlund! I needed a correction on what heresy meant and god delivered it via you. I have a question though, would Peter Enns or other liberal/progressive theologians/scholar's who claim to be Christian's be heretics?
Anybody want a peanut?
Thanks for the content
Can you do some more videos of church history? Perhaps even timelines and what happened during the timelines ? Enjoying your content greatly.
Many dont know what heresy is. It seems like many decide on their own and thus if that person was to bielieve heresy themselves they wouldn't know it. Goal posts can be moved and those people accuse heresy as they wish to anyone.
looking forward to the guardian angels one - not sure at all what to think about that currently.
Inconceivable!
THAT'S MODALISM, PATRICK
That thumbnail got me clicking.
Can you please, if the topic would interest you enough to make time for it, make a video on why you think the denial of sola fide is not heresy? A lot of Protestants (including myself) believe it is an essential doctrine, because in the places the Bible teaches sola fide, it is pretty harsh for people who don’t belief it. Thanks for the clear video today!
This thumbnail will haunt my dreams.
I love this - to be useful the words must have some particular meaning - otherwise we might as well just say someone is incorrect.
Since the greek word for heresy meant "choice" (haíresis) and was usually used to refer to those beliefs that were divisive and destroyed faith I think we have the contours for a useful definition. The analogy I like most is the story of Solomon and the two mothers. The true mother was willing to lose the baby rather than choose to divide it in half. If you look at the early heresies they almost all involve dividing a divine mystery, or, choosing a piece when one should have faith in the whole. I once read a quote (I think early church father) who said the heretics are usually correct in what they accept and incorrect in what they reject. The mystery of Christ as fully God and man (rejecting either is heresy), rejecting any part of the Trinity, etc...
I don't think whether or not something is "essential" is the best definition, I think it is probably necessary but not sufficient for the term to keep its proper meaning. For instance an atheist may deny the existence of God. This belief is essential to the Christian faith, but I think it cheapens the term heresy if we apply it to this case. In this case the person is not divisive within the Church or one its essential doctrines that require faith, rather they are rejecting the Church and its faith outright.
Heresy: The division of a essential doctrine of the faith by rejecting the whole and choosing only a part of it. This applies in particular to what Paul refers to as the "Mysteries", those doctrines divinely revealed that require faith (as opposed to just a logical doctrine). Paul says Christians should regard themselves as stewards of these mysteries. 1 Corinthians 4:1
I read the book you'd referenced in a past video, that being "When Doctrine Divides." That book is very succinct and addressed this issue of who qualifies as a heretic. That book was my first dive into doctrinal triage.
Blessings
Correction: the full title is "When Doctrine Divides the People of God."
I love your first point: if someone is concerned about a particular teacher, it is best to ask them what they mean. I like to preach “talk to people, not about them.“ That is just Mt 18 in practice.
I wonder whether it is really possible to identify heresy apart from some kind of creed or confession of faith. Certainly, we can look at the ancient ecumenical creeds as a good standard that most Christians would accept. But what about other issues not covered there? For example, when I was in college, some of my Calvinist friends (half jokingly) Call me a heretic because I hold a Wesleyan soteriology. It seems like you need more specific confessions of faith to judge whether something is heretical.
Something I hear a lot online is the use of the term “apostasy“ to describe churches that have fallen away from traditional, moral teachings, on sexuality and marriage, for example. I am inclined to think that “heresy“ would be a more appropriate term (consistent with what you have said about issues of sanctification), but what would you say about those churches? Confused? Heterodox? Heretical? Apostate?
Bruh that thumbnail. In all seriousness Gavin, I don’t get why you attract so much smoke. You’re such a charitable guy. Sure some times I disagree with you, but don’t we all disagree? As Christians, we should focus on what unites us.
Heresy (heresis) is any deviation from a given standard in accordance for how the word is explicitly used in scripture. The question is what the deviation is from.
Inconcievable!
Thank you for your clarity on Kamala!
Dr. Ortlund is so unfathomably based
Based, as in grounded? Good point!
@@chaddonal4331 yes or just so good at discussing these important topics
In regards to the sanctification point, I've definitely been hearing more "Christians" lately say sanctification doesn't matter/we can sin freely.
The thumbnail should be yours blueprint for the rest going forward Gavin.