I guess there is a tool for every job. Most people are not interested in Enduro riding. Not everyone is into technical climbs, rock gardens and drowning bikes in waist deep mud. Most riders can only afford one bike, so that bike needs to be versatile. Must be able to carry a passenger, commute to work, capable of touring and have the option to explore offroad. That’s why midsize ADV are hugely popular, they are the perfect tool to cover large distances, explore new forest paths, chew hundreds of Kms of corrugations, and go on remote camping adventures. It really depends where you live and the type of riding you do. Me fore instance, I love riding offroad, but I got rid of my enduro bikes and moved to mid-size ADVs. The closest trails are 60Km from my home, doing that stretch of highway on a dual sport is exhausting. Loading a bike on the trailer every Saturday is not my cup of tea, and I want to spend my scarce free time riding a bike rather than driving a car, adjusting straps on a trailer and also having to do frequent maintenance intervals. Having two bikes would be ideal, but not everyone can afford it
Mid size ADV bikes are great in their versatility. Heavy weight ADV ‘flagships’ that Solid is talking about are tourers, way overweight, overpriced, and overly complex for venturing far from pave for a rider with an average skill set.
@@ArtTheTractorthe mid range bikes have the same complexity and features as the flagships minus the t7. As far as weight goes I’d prefer to pick up my gs with its boxer engine over any midrange bike any day that lays completely flat.
I recently sat on a Africa Twin at a dealership. I couldn't believe how BIG it was. There's no way I would want such a big and heavy bike. Now I'm much better suited with a Honda CB500X...also known as the half-frica twin.
In the beginning, that's the case. My Goldwing too, beginning, it felt cumbersome with the weight and power but after 1 year of riding, I more or less got the bike under control. Like the video mentioned, just do what your heart tells you. In the end, you know what you want when you go riding.
I went from a cb500x to an Africa twin, felt the same as you, but by adjusting the shock and seat now my feet are closer to the ground than in the cb500x
CB500X worst suspension ever. It was only bad as new, the rear shocked stopped absorbing any rebound and it now just a bumpy spring after only 20K km.... Honda Thailand.
Now just imagine for a moment, if you were a great big strong bloke, that Africa Twin would probably start to look attractive wouldn’t it? Not one size fits all
Yep, 80 years old, bought a 2022 CB500X, 439 lbs added 45 lbs of engine/crash guard, tool box, skid plate, pannier and luggage racks, and I can pick it up.
At 70 I’ve been riding long and hard for over fifty years. A few months ago I added an Africa Twin DCT to my garage. While I agree with most of what’s argued here, I’d add a few caveats. First, “off road” for me (and most?) means off tarmac; plenty of interesting off tarmac is available where I live. I paid about 50% off MSRP for a fully farkled low mileage “pre-loved” example - if it gets bruised, it gets bruised. I’ve got other bikes (sport/road and lighter off road) to ride; I wouldn’t want a big dual purpose for my only bike. Bottom line? It depends . . . and, I really enjoy the Africa Twin.
Im in my late middle age, used to race on the track and have started to grumble about my back and joints. But when I grow up I want to be just like you!
Yeah out here in Arizona there's so many long dirt roads. They go through the desert for miles and miles and those big adventure bikes hit the mark perfectly. I still bought a thumper because I don't like being held down to one genre of dirt riding. You literally are the type of man I look up to. It scares me to think about when I can't ride. When I see someone your age still doing it with a bunch of bikes in the garage, gives a man hope for the future
Good stuff! I'm an AT owner myself and agree that the definition of "off road" can include well-maintained gravel or hard-pack, and a big ADV is certainly fine there in the hands of an average rider. "Pavement" isn't a monolithic category either-another thing I've come to appreciate about ADV's is their performance on BAD roads. The suspension soaks up potholes, spoked wheels are both tougher and more repairable, and the weight means you aren't thrown off-course so easily. All that combined with the wonderful ergonomics and ability to carry luggage, and there's nothing I'd prefer for a cross-country trip.
The dct model is really comfortable, near big scooter experience, just play a little with the shock and seat and my feet are touching completely and firm the ground
My dealer tells me that most adventure bikes are bought by older riders and never taken off road. No rider over 60 is going to spend hour after hour on a sport bike. Compared with a cruiser, ABs have a much better riding position, resembling riding a horse, whereas a cruiser has your legs forward and all your weight on your tailbone. They are also a couple of hundred pounds lighter which makes them more fun to ride. In the last 20 years, I have had 3 ABs: a 2003 V-Strom 1000, a 2015 Multistrada (total POS, will never buy another Ducati) and a 2020 1290 SAS which I rate as a great ride. Yes, I was sad to sell my R1, but I could ride it for less than 30 minutes, particularly in town, before I was worn out. Again ABs are perfect bikes for older riders and I am delighted that manufacturers are embracing them.
I’m 62. I’m getting to the point where even my trusty ol’ DR650 ‘ADV’ is getting too heavy. After I’ve dropped it four or five times in rough going, I start to lose interest. I wish, wish, wish somebody would build a sub-350 lb ‘ADV’ with decent off-road chops, decent highway manners and a little wind protection, making 40-50 HP and equivalent torque. That’s all I want or need, and I’d gladly pay a premium for it. Especially if it comes with cruise control and all the other modern farkles. Come on, manufacturers, I’m just sitting here waiting to throw money at you, and I’m never going to buy even one of your “middleweight” ADVs - even those are just too much for me off-road.
My opinion: you have to chose the right bike for your needs! Heavy @bikes fit perfect for a long trip through the continent, but are totaly wrong for single track. Still, they are surprisingly capable, as long as the wheels turn.. The golden rules are: -Never go in gnarly Terrain all alone with big bikes, you will need some hands to get out of troubles. - Never go with mixed bikes, i mean light dual sport and big heavies together. It will always be a stress for the extreme opposits. -don't take too much stuff with you, even when big bikes offer the space for you. You will hate every kg you carry for nothing, including bling bling on your bike, when it's getting tough. But conquering a difficult trail on heavy bikes together with your mates, helping each other can also be a fantastic feeling, like:"yeah, we did it!"
@@benm468 I get your point, there is always a tough track, but also nearly always an alternative nearby. Sometimes one has to try and turn back, if it's getting too difficult, the heavier the bike, more often will that happen. But for me, isn't that also part of adventure riding? For my part, I travel with minimum baggage, when I am on my big bike(990@) so I can handle tracks where overloaded Gs's etc. don't even try :-)
@@brettdemauna9994 yeah, no doubt. Like the DR650 the Kawas are epic Bikes, for me the older models even more because of no nonsens bikes :-) saidly they stopped the import long time ago in Switzerland because of emmision standarts. Only the new KLR is avaiable again, but for me a bit too heavy for a single
The best adv bike I’ve ever ridden turned out to be a Honda cb125. It goes anywhere with its big wheels and 114 kilos fully fueled. And burns 1.5L per 100km so you can get 700km from a tank 😅
That is also why i just bought a Sym ADX 125 all terrain scooter. It's the only real off road capable scooter. When i want it the hard way i take my dirt bike and go to the racing track. ( 7 liter for 100km by the way.....)
Just went on a 6 day logging road adventure with a handful of people. Some with big bikes (like me on my africa twin) and some with smaller bikes (like CRF300 and DR650s) and I can confirm this 100%. While I had to slow down for every corner, those on lighter bikes could ride much faster and had WAY more fun in the end.
First big adventure bike I ever rode felt exactly like riding my street bike on a dirt road. Went out and bought a thumper that weighs 250 lb with lights and turn signals. They're so good about marketing them and designing them in a way that makes you want one even when you know they're bad LOL
@@jeffreydecker3189 No mate, 450 pounds is 450 pounds, no matter which way you look at it... Nothing to do with skill, not everyone wants to be superman fit to enjoy riding.....
@@MickH60 I just did 10 days on a logging road adventure and we had a swell time on heavy bikes hauling ass the whole time. Smaller bikes did no better than those of us on 1090s. It’s very dependent on the type of riding though. But logging roads are great for big bikes.
Nobody makes a comment on my Moto Guzzi V85TT! a great all around and easy to ride on dirt and gravel. Not for very technical tracks if you don't have the proper training. But a wonderful bike.
I believe Ewan and Charlie certainly fueled the big bike adventure craze. I wonder how many people were disappointed to find out they didn’t come with chase trucks and a group of people working out the logistics for them
This is all about "status leisure" motorcyclists. BMW identified this market back in the 70s when they launched the R90. Non-profile bikers will ride just about anything from old Suzuki Bandits to new Blades. ADV riders, on the other hand, are often into activities which broadcast their perceived status. They want the biggest, most expensive ADV with all the boxes, like they must have the most bloated SUV in their driveway. Harley D also have a slice of this market. Thing is, 8 out of 10 don't actually own the hardware, and hand it back after the two year PCP term.
@@James-gf9jlI’m lower middle class and bought a used gs. Hands down the best bike I have ever owned. The only bike that has stayed in my garage for more than 4 years and I still have zero plans of ever selling.
Great to see someone tell it as it is! I rode a KLR650 from U.S. through South America. I met many on road with big bikes, they toured great on paved but off-road were nightmares while I had zero problems! One friend on a GS spent more just shipping his bike home from Peru after catastrophic failure then I spent on mine including buying cost and maintenance for 1 year 50000km!!!
Actually I should add on the salar uyuni from Bolivia to Chile I broke engine mount bolt but I replaced it with bolt from luggage system then got locals to repair in Chile. Can't do that with GS!
I had a KLR650 and I loved it for off-road and trail riding, but it was not great for riding distance on the freeway. Above 60mph, I’d get a ton of vibration in the handlebars. I really need to be able to do both so I’m looking into adventure bikes. I’m considering an African Twin or a Super Tenere so far. Both are bigger, though. I’ll probably do more road riding than off-road, but off-road is my favorite and I want to be able to do that. What’s your take? Any advice?
SO TRUE I went from a BMW GS1250 to a KTM 980 to a BMW G310GS.. I have 45 years of experience riding Street bikes and almost nothing off road. I love everything abouth these comfort mamouth 500lbs+ couches on wheels but, grew tired of having to pick them up. I wanted to enjoy riding not fight Mike Tyson each time I fell off or got stuck in the mud. With a large ADV one can't ride alone. It's just too stressful having to worry do I have to call someone for help if I couldn't get untuck from the mud. Now five years later and a 375Lbs G310GS I can ride all day with no worries. I have the TAT and Continental Divide under my belt I'm also planning a solo trip to South America (Patagonia) then onto Europe. Sure I had to do a some mods and upgrade to the suspension and wire wheels but now I can finally focus on enjoying my trips not fighting with it. Sure there are some drawbacks but it's worth it. A smaller ADV is the way to go if you truly want to travel 90% off road. Big ADV bikes are perfect if you want to look good and travel mostly on pavement.
Agreed....seems like we have a similar lineage. I'm still nursing my 08 990 here in Utah (I love it so) and have a 1250 in Europe. Wife and I just got back from 10 days on parts of the Wyoming BDR and Continental Divide trail yesterday and was thinking about moving to midsize or light ADV (If I can find one w/out 8 computers)) My little WR250R is ok for shorter jaunts, but not quite where I need it to be. As you said, when you get in trouble in the middle of nowhere on one of the beasts, you have a whole other set of issues to deal with....and I'm not getting any younger. As an old boat captain told me when I was looking for a coastal cruiser years ago..."the amount of fun you will have with your boat is inversely related to it's length." Something similar seems to apply, here so still dreaming of that 650cc unicorn that's not a KLR. :) Have fun in Patagonia and be safe . Friends rode down last year and had a blast with a few sketchy moments.
Enjoy all South America especially the Patagonia region. As an Argentine native I’d suggest you just avoid big cities (most of the times the capitals). In the country side of all South America you’ll find the best ever hospitality from wonderful locals. Greetings from Colorado. I might head that way too next year
I agree 100%. I've ridden a HD from Arkansas to Yukon, CA and a 1200cc Yamaha Super Tenere to Alaska and Artic Circle. The HD was much more comfortable, had cruise control and CB radio. Only rode the Tenere on dirt on the Dalton Highway so much better than an HD on that short 400 miles. Also rode a Dual Sport KTM 350 from east coast to west coast on the Trans America Trail (TAT). Saw lots of big adventure bikes on the TAT but dual sport is only way to go on that type of riding. Best dual sport is the Yamaha WR250R!!!! BTW I was in my late 60's and early 70's when I made those rides.
I had a air cool R1200GS for 6 years. It really surprised me how good it was offroad. It was a bit big and heavy but just manageable for me at 5'6. It was easy to pick up as the cylinders stopped it from falling over all the way. I would recommend one of these if you do want to try off roading on a big bike. Just keep a bit of money spare for shaft drive repairs.
@@ridingtheeast1121 its powerful enough for most people and since its a recent model it has more support. plus it being honda is another factor. its damn reliable. its only downside is somewhat soft suspension which is necessary because the rate it accelerates is surprising.
Well big ADV bikes might not be the best bike for everyone, but I have found them to be perfect for me. I use my bike for all sorts of stuff, from after work fire road shenanigans, over longer weekend trips, to multi day holiday travel. I have tried many styles of bikes, all have left me longing for more variety. I had a ninja which was fun, but awefull on bad roads and uncomfortable on longer rides, switched to a virago which was much more comfortable, but left me standing in front of a lot of fireroads thinking "damn I wish I could blast along here". So I got a crf-250, to realize quickly that Offroading is fun, but getting there is miserable. So I sold both and got myself a F650GS Dakar. And this was the first bike that really made me feel free, because I could just go anywhere with it. It was decent on road, really good off road and was really comfortable, so I could easily make longer tours and see a ton of new things. So I knew this style of bike was perfect for me. After about 2 years I realized I still wanted a bit more on road focus, since most of my offroading was fireroads and forest paths and next to no hard offroading, and I wanted a bit more weight, so the bike was less influenced by wind when I'm riding on the highway for vacation or work. So I ended up selling it and got a R1200GS and I do not know how a bike could be more perfect for me and my riding profile. But thats just me. I don't want to go into the extremes on any front. Surely if you love dragging knees in corners, an adv bike isn't for you. If you want to do trails and fight through the actual wilderness, and adv bike isn't for you. If you enjoy stunting, an adv bike isn't for you. If you like to go to the extremes in anything, an adv bike probably isn't for you. But if you just want to relax, have some fun, enjoy the weather and the environment around you and just go where you please, an adv bike might just be the perfect thing for you.
If you look at this guy, you can clearly see that he has many complexes. I feel sorry for him. He was born weak, and 200 years ago, he could not survive.
Yes exactly. And nowadays you can get mid sized advs for a pretty ok price, the old „adv tax“ thing only really applies to these huge monumental top-of-the-shelf advs. When it comes to these generalist types of bikes it all comes down to your balance of on- and offroad riding. Advs are more cumbersome in rough terrain but good on roads and dual sports can crush any black diamond single-track you want but are complete ass for commuting or any kind of prolonged road riding. It‘s pick your poison I guess. And then again there is a middle ground between the two, mid sized advs are pretty capable offroad and there are many people „adventurizing“ their dual sports to turn them into lightweight advs.
Great video. I love my huge adventure touring bikes, because I don't take them off road. They are great touring bikes, yes you can get cheaper bikes to tour on, but nothing beats the all day comfort and low maintenance of a shaft drive upright seating bike.
Absolutely well said. I’ve made this mistake and couldn’t be happier having gone to my DR650. The heaviest I’ll go now is a T7 and that’s pushing the weight limit.
@@Tr3ggs there’s honestly no better combo for me right now. I don’t own a T7 yet, but was considering doing exactly the same. I sat on a T7 the other day and was really impressed.
@@ComfyDadShoesI just got a T7 and it will surprise you how capable it is off road. I have a back ground in motox and enduro but I haven’t been off tarmac for nearly 15 years and I was ripping up trails and some steep Rocky climbs easily on the T7. It’s some beast
@@ComfyDadShoes the only thing that turned me off when I rode a mates was the top heavy nature that is made worse by its tall suspension and my shorter legs eg a disaster waiting to happen.
Started riding at age 47 on 2016 F700GS. Got good training and rode with many levels of riders. Never was scared to drop the bike. I'm shorter at 67" so the lower ride height helped. That bike was dropped well over 100 times in a couple years. Now ride a 1250GS and pretty confident off rode. Woody's wheels and altrider crash bars. Rode with several much better long timers on T700's and they couldn't get over how I could keep up in the dirt. They now ride GS's and will not go back. They do a lot very well! Spend money on training. Don't be afraid to practice in dirt parking lots and don't be afraid to scratch the crash bars or skid plate! Most of all, don't be afraid to push forward a bit at a time!
I moved from the CRF300L Rally to a Norden 901 a few weeks ago and love it. Surprisingly it's just as easy to pick up due to the fuel tank design, handles equally well in technical riding, and somehow feels even more agile on the tarmac.
Well it depends on your definition of technical riding. On the milder tracks yes the 300 has no real advantage when things start getting really tight sorry mate there is no comparison between these two bikes. That is not to say the Norden can’t do it but it will sure make you work for it.
@@tonyrdr7207 every bike is a compromise, but the Norden is less of one in just about any aspect. It will do 99% of single track with a little extra work. But it will never make it in Erzberg or that other 1% lol
@@marcochavane3124 fully loaded expedition style and solo, if you are an average rider like me no not really there are limits though not many. If you are like Nerb1 or someone like that yes indeed . Don’t get me wrong I come from big bikes myself and have taken an 1150 on some very hard trails. The heavy bikes can probably do 95%
Excellent points. As a returning rider 3 years ago (48 at that point) with no real off-road experience other than mountain bikes, I bought a Yamaha XT250 to get started. The bike is an absolute wonder for learning not only off-road skills but motorcycling skills in general. In a year of consistent riding (about 3,000 miles, mostly fairly technical off road) I felt I wanted to up my game and get an adventure bike. My choice was a Tenere 700. It was a revelation and not in a good way. At 5’10” with 32 inseam the bike felt super tall and incredibly heavy. I was shocked how different it felt off road than the XT250. I basically had to re-learn how to ride it off road. I got beat up a lot doing it but persisted and after a year and another 3,000 miles of mostly off road riding, I feel fairly competent in fairly technical terrain. But it is never enjoyable in such terrain as the XT250 is. I always feel stressed when taking it on technical trails because of it’s weight (485 lbs with bars and other necessities). Although I’m fit and can always lift it even in difficult terrain, it is a brutal effort. Tenere is top heavy and it loves to pull you down any chance it gets. In less technical terrain or on tarmac, it’s a blast because of the power. Overall I enjoy it very much but I’m judicious on what terrain I take it on. If I had to choose between XT250 and T7 for an around-the-world journey with any significant off roading, I’d take the XT250 every time. They are both awesome bikes, but as capable as T7 is off-road, you have to have mad off-road skills and superhuman strength to take it alone on rough single tracks. I think that for most people, middleweight and heavy ADV bikes are not a good choice for serious off-roading. It’s far more fun to ride a light dual sport off-road that can still do highway miles at 70-75 mph. You’ll just have to avoid high speed freeways.
Very true. I downgraded myself from a Versys 650 to Yamaha XT250 for the sake of enjoyment. Riding a big bike is a constant task. Riding a small bike is fun. And just like you i'll take the XT 250 anywhere with no worries of having to manhandle it
I did right the opposite, started with the T7 (bought it in an auction so I couldn’t feel how tall and heavy it was) and I’ve recently bought an XT 250 which I’m getting in love with hitting the mountains of Colorado. Im 5’6” weighting 160 so I might sell the T7, but since I’m planning to travel down to my native Argentina next year I’m still thinking what’ll my best choice. Thanks for your comment! Cheers!
As always, solid commentary on a complex topic with countless opinions. Big bikes can mean big fun and big challenges. I've been riding and teaching on a KTM 990 in the woods, mountains and deserts for 15 years, and as it was my 1st "dirtbike" one of your comments stood out to me as very accurate. If you don't have a deep desire to invest the time and effort to learn how to ride these bikes off-road (and I don't mean off-tarmac) ....don't waste your time and money. You will at best inconvenience and frustrate yourself and at worst endanger others. And while many trainings focus on picking up these beasts, I start from the other end of the spectrum. Before I accept an off-road student, I have them send me a video of their ability let that bike fall to the ground. If you cannot walk up to your brand new $20k motorcycle and nock it off its kickstand into the dirt, you are not going out into the woods with us. The only thing that keeps a 500lb bike upright is balance and momentum. When people are more focused on damaging their bike than keeping it moving in tough conditions, bad things WILL happen. There is nothing worse when maneuvering a big bike than creeping along because you are scared to drop it. My suggestion...get over that fear, wear those scratches and dents as a badge of honor. If you can't do that, maybe just stick to the roads with your big ADV bike. Thanks for all your great content!
I think it comes down to the fact there’s no unicorn bike. I am fortunate to have both a GSA and a DRZ400s. When I’m off pavement on the GSA I often wish I was on the DRZ, and when I’m on pavement on the DRZ I often wish I was on the GSA. Recently I planned a 2-night Moto-camp that involved a 75+ trip to get to the campsite. I intended to take the DRZ (state highways) because I wanted to use the middle day to try out some OHV trails near the campground. Well, I got rained out the first day, which turned it into a one-day trip. That made the OHV side-trip difficult (just not enough time), and I didn’t really love the idea of riding the DRZ 75 miles all packed up with stuff for just an overnight, so I took the GSA. Easy, because I could just dump stuff into the hard cases, and be off, rather than fiddling with the soft bags on the DRZ. Anyway, the ride was super easy on the GSA, of course. I started setting up camp, but before long I noticed the campsite was acrawl with ticks. Freaking ticks everywhere, and I mean EVERYWHERE. I decamped after a couple hours, and rode right back home, dusk into night, 80-90mph on the freeway with my heated grips turned on. That would have been impossible on the DRZ. Instead, I would have been creeping along the state highway with feeble lighting guiding my way, freezing my ass off due to no wind protection. That said, I still LOVE my DRZ and rode it up to some gravel/dirt roads the very next weekend and had a blast. After all the above, I still strongly wonder whether I could replace both bikes with a KTM/Husky 690/701 and have the worst of both worlds ;-)
I can relate to your lighting wows, was at The Alpine Loop on a KTM450 got side tracked off the mountains cause clutch problems then a 4hour highway trip back to hotel, it got dark and literally couldn't see anything. I had to trail a truck or car most of the way, scary. Sold that bike a week after I got back.
@@doublex632 Yeah it's a big deal. Funny that you comment, I'm working on my DRZ and hope to be mounting a new LED headlamp ... today! Should make a huge difference🤞.
Great points . I’m 64 and have ridden for most of my life. I’ve been on GSAs since 2008 then an ATAS DCT ES for a few months last year and now a KTM 890 Adventure (non-R). Weight or rather top-heavy weight was the reason I changed. The Honda was narrower and lighter than the GSA but less stable at low speeds in traffic. I like the KTM a lot other than the seat. What’s missing is a light, comfortable single cylinder bike with decent power and weather protection. The nearest for me is the KTM/Husky/Gas Gas 690/701/700 family but all are compromised by being tall, rock hard seats (despite these being “Travel” bikes), and no weather protection unless you add rally towers. I don’t care about off-road capabilities but ADV bikes have a riding position I like.
Think of your big ADV as you would a 4WD van, compared to a 125 / 250 is dirt bike Jeep. They’re completely different animals. Me, I live in Las Vegas (middle of a desert) and I have at least a couple hours riding on the highway to get to a place with trees to camp. Freeway speed limits in the 70-80 MPH range. I’ve found that as big and heavy as my AT is, it can carry all my gear for boondocking (self contained camping) and has the weight / horsepower to keep up with traffic. Nice as it’d be to be on a 250 when I hit the dirt, I’m not sure a smaller bike would make it through the freeway part at all!
Ive been riding for well over 50 years on a variety of big cruisers, full dressers, dirt, dual sports, and ATV's. I still ride them and have added a new dual sport KLR650 to the garage. Its not particularly powerful, not great for tearing up the dirt track,,,but is perfect for getting down the highway at 70mph to the backroads to the jeep trails. I can load my camping gear and essentials and get away for a few days. Every cycle has a specific purpose and my KLR has its own. Whats your purpose? Life is too short. Get out and ride,,,one way or the other.
Btw,,,im 68 yo. It helps to stay in shape. I like 10/12 mile cross country hikes/hunts. But the best advice I can give is 'get up-get out.' You've heard Toby Keith's song 'Don't Let the Old Man in?' It's true...keep moving. I hope to see you on the trail.
good video and good advice too, we all ride and we all have different levels and experience , so get out there and ride , enjoy , for me i have been riding off road for years and now been looking for something with longer legs but still very capable off road so i have purchased a ktm 690 enduro R , just turned over 90 k , so yeap its new , very impressed so far , its good weight , well balanced , good power ,and fun bike to ride , ill keep you updated . cheers Steve/ Geraldton
I was just thinking about this today while I was driving back to Angels Camp from Sonora in the California Gold Country (only about 14 miles, 25 minutes). I was in my pickup truck, having gone to Sonora to buy something at the big box hardware store there, and there must have been 20 bikes in that 14 miles, going the opposite way, in groups of 2 or three. All but one bike was a big adventure bike with the GS's outnumbering all others. I couldn't help thinking about how great those bikes must be on the small highways like the one they were on, and how horrendous they would be on the sorts of roads I like to ride on up here in the Mother Lode region. My off road adventure bike is a 2004 DR650 and my on road adventure bike is a 2016 KLR. I never go faster than 65 on the local highways so why pay for 110 hp when 40 will do the job quite nicely. The DR, at 100 lbs. lighter than the KLR, is WAY better in the dirt and pretty much all the bike I can handle. I am one of the "returning" riders and have been riding again for 4 years now after a 20 year hiatus. Even the KLR is more than I want to have to lift after falling, hence the DR. I can't imagine trying to pick up a GS.
Yeah, unfortunately you are right. Just to put things in perspective: Getting a Big Adventure Bike and going Off-Road is like getting yourself a Chevrolet Suburban or any other comparable SUV and take that huge heavy land yacht out for a Off-Road adventure...yeah not gonna happen ! In fact those Big Adventure Bikes really are the Big Heavy SUV Motorcycles on this planet. Ask yourself this question every time you are challenged to take an Off-Road trip: Would you take a Chevrolet Suburban here..? When the answer is No! then don't take your Big SUV or your Big Adventure Bike there. This will prevent a lot of damage, pain, and tears. A Big Adventure Bike really is a tarmac travelers Bike to go discover a continent from a paved road perspective. You will have the maximum of fun! Just stay away from unpaved roads ! Just like you would with your Chevy Suburban or equivalent.
The thing that kept me from 2 bikes and made to get Tenere 700 is that sometimes on a road ride I see a place that isnt road bike friendly, but i want to check out.
I usually ride alone and picking up the Africa Twin is definitely a challenge and doing it multiple times is tiring. When I'm touring, I worry a lot about dropping it with luggage, so I am very cautious about where I go and how I ride there. I found I enjoy the on-tarmac riding much more than on-gravel. In British Columbia, gravel can mean taking 50-100 km routes through mountain passes that may not be maintained. It's a thrill to go where few travel but I'm not sure it's for me. I recently bought an R1200RS for touring, so I will see if that suits me and is able to get to the campsites I want to use. I'm thinking of picking up a used CRF250 next fall for my off-road riding. Watching the pros on an Africa Twin or any other big bike is like watching professionals in any endeavour: they make it look easy (after years of practice and training!). The reality is that at my age, I'm not fit enough or skilled enough to ride like that and I never will be. That ship has sailed. But I can enjoy riding for many years to come with the right bikes.
don’t let the size and weight discourage. i started completely new to off-roading and motorcycles in general on a 890AdvR and i’m glad i stuck with it, it’s was tuff but worth it. a little can do attitude, conditioning, and practice will get you there! parking lots, sand pits, the gym, stretching. dirt bike courses, and good friends who are patient and encouraging. the big bikes are exceptionally capable off-road, and they have rider helping technology that dual sports don’t have, you can shut it off to get a real taste and build skill but then turn it back on when your looking for some help, it has saved me a couple times when i got too frisky. many of the big bikes don’t lay as flat on the ground as the dual sports especially when they have panniers, so that should be factored in when you compare what it’s like to pick them up. a 350 pound bike laying at 5 degrees means you lift further from a lower position. and a gs with a boxer engine lays at 25 degrees soo your starting from a higher point and lifting less? ide like to compare that side by side. i bet the weight isn’t as bad as people make it out to be. big rock moto did that test i think? anyways just build up some core and leg strength and you can pick them up again and again just fine with proper form, don’t let that get in your head! the benefits of sticking with it? cruise at comfort, planted, with ease at speed to and from your offroad destination, regardless the distances. for best results ide say give the middle weight bikes a chance, ktm 890, T7, vstrom 650, tiger ect.
I am completely caught in the middle, on a 2022 CB500X, im just a little too big for the small stuff, like small single trail with my mates on dual sports, and a little too small for the big stuff with my mates on adv tourers and AT, GSA, etc… Nearly every week I want to sell the 500X and buy a CRF250L, but then I’ll unable for the big rides and no two up abilities, every other week I want to sell and buy an 901 but then I’ll unable for the single dirts trails!! I’m finding the 500X is working great, gets me places I shouldn’t really go, and around to the places I can easily enough, even though I think it it has zero street cred😂😂 Thanks for the videos, keep ‘em up!
Once again some Solid Advice! Now that I am getting older, my Tiger 900GT does have some weight and even though I just ride dirt roads, I am concerned with the bike wants a nap and I have to pick it up...I have done a few small things to reduce weight like installing a Lithium battery and removed some items that I hardly use... So thanks, you have raised some valid points! David...Adelaide...Tiger 900GT & Scrambler 900.....
On a positive note.....liter+ ADV bikes are fantastic on road tourers and camping bikes. Broken asphalt, holes, dips, seams, ridges, hard packed dirt, cobblestone, cross winds, truck air wash, water crossings are no issue. Less fairings make on trip repairs and maintenance more manageable. In Australia or USA the liter+ power is necessary. FYI I can pickup my 650lbs loaded ADV with bars multiple times, if needed. I have the tool seen on YT. Do not ride off road.
personally if they cut all the fat off these ADV bikes and threw a smaller yet more powerful engine package in them these bikes would be amazing to use off and onroad, as they are now they're just cruisers styled with the adventure aesthetic. as they are now they're useless offroad since if you can't pick a bike up multiple times without it affecting your enjoyment or need help picking it up, that bike in my mind is a failure of a ADV bike not to mention IF you drop it your going to have to pay a small fortune to repair it.
Drove a GS 1250 for years and years. Switched to Honda Africa Twin Adventure Sports L1000 DCT 3 years ago and I never want to go back. Just got back from 3 weeks through the Balkan countries - with a lot of offroad (TET app) - and I am still in love with this one!
I appreciate this video. 52 years riding, starting on dual sport aka Enduros in the 1970's, which are street legal but more based on a dirt bike platform, lighter and more nimble on trails off road, Capable for around town riding. Highway riding is difficult because they are higher and narrower, more affected by wind of passing vehicles and hard to maintain highway speeds or 70-80+--that's where a heavier road bike has an advantage and the new ADV bikes that replaced the sport touring segment are dominating the market. I have many bikes, 5 total, three bought this year, A Triumph T120, A Suzuki DR650S (getting back to my enduro dirt bike roots on rural dirt roads is just fun-which is what it's a ll about) and A yamaha FJR1300es, now discontinued. I always was attracted to the Honda ST 110/1300 but it was discontinued along with the Kawasaki Concours, both heavier than the FJR, which is sharper and quicker. This bikes sits between my Honda Goldwing and my old CB 650 Custom, So I grabbed it. The Yamaha Super Tenere (ST) 1200 es, also discontinued (which I want because of that) is the sister bike to the FJR in an ADV platform, it is a 2 cylinder shaft drive bike. It is a one inch higher seat height than the FJR but missing some more nicer features on the FJR but a different bike. The FJR is 640 lbs, The ST is 584 LBS very close in weight but still heavy. 6+ gallon gas tank in front of you, make the bike top heavy. I want the Yamaha ST but I cannot justify the cost of a bike that is about the same cost as the FJR that came with saddlebags and honestly the FJR is a prettier bike. I basically would have two street bikes that essentially can do the same thing but the FJR is a little lower for my inseam at 31 " and I am 6' tall. The St would put me on the balls of my feet more than the FJR, which is not sure footed when stopped at a light in comparison to the FJR. I also have an enduro that is a blast if I want to tool around on more dirt roads so I don't think I need an ADV bike that is heavier off road, more isolated from people passing by that can potentially help me. Not proud of this, but I had dropped the FJR in my driveway when my right leg gave out as I was slightly leaning the bike to the right to put the kickstand down on the left due t some recent health issues I di not realize. I held onto to the bike gently bringing it to the ground flat on its right side like a dead fish. I could not get a grab point on the right side to lift it walking backwards, as trained. I lifted facing forward 3x, almost got it up but not quite far enough over. I got help from a neighbor, d side panels were scratched up, had them repainted professionally like new. I also invested in in crash bars from T-Rex racing (great company) to help the bike not lay as flat and protect the fairing panels if it falls again. I also got a riser plate to get the bars a little more upright & closer to me about an inch up and back to be more comfortable. I discovered I had also torn a 10 year old inguinal hernia repair and a right torn hamstring. Now I have never dropped a bike in 52 years. I have a 1999 Honda Goldwing, 6 gal tank under the seat=LCG, handles great. Due to some health issues I had recently after my wife died suddenly,. My strength had been zapped from me more than I realized. I have been recovering and I have gotten back on the FJR (got back on the horse that threw me). I have done well and can handle it better now, also not filling the tank full helps with weight management, stay at about 4 gallons than 6.6. I say all of this because people need to be aware that these adventure bikes are largely road bikes not dirt bikes as is being advertised. 80-90% of owners will never truly go off road in deep sand, rough narrow trails that are better managed by a lighter/narrower enduro/dual sport/dirt oriented motorcycle that has better ground clearance and maneuverability. In this video and in a couple others I have watched, ADV bikes with street oriented tires (different than semi-knobby dual sport enduro tires) will handle gravel and loose dirt, hard packed dirt and fire roads very well. However, so will a Goldwing, a sport tourer and most classic road bikes; but you have to back off the throttle, managed your weight, clutch and braking so you maintain safe momentum. Other videos as stated on RUclips indicate, if you plan on doing true off road riding, buy a lighter dual sport bike for that purpose. You will get knocked off a rough trail, hit swamp/soft ground, sugar sane and you will drop the bike or get knocked off of it. Enduros/dual sports are much easier to pickup alone. I recommend every motorcyclist, especially sport touring bikes, full dressers & ADV bikes that don't have crash bars (every bike needs them) to get a motowinch from eastbound.shop/ it is a life saver if you are alone to pickup a heavy bike in any situation. Your second bike for general riding on roads, can be an ADV or other street bike that fits your riding comfort and style for you budget. Don't always go with the popular trend, get a bike that fits you, makes you smile inside after you sat on it, ride, or even look at. That joy is worth more than money that lasts a lifetime and will be the cost effective choice for you--after all that is the joy of motorcycling you feel inside. Note, there is a reason that touring bikes, retro classics, some naked bikes, enduros/dual sports and ADV bikes have mid mount foot controls and upright riding positions. They allow more control over the center of the bike, allow you to move on the seat, and stand if you need too. Forward controls lean you back and are good for around town cruising that does not require a lot of sharp turning radius due to the rake of the bike.. Sport bikes have your feet high and back as you lean very far forward, almost laying on top of the tank, built for speed, leaning into curves not turning so much. They quickly become uncomfortable and you feel every bump. Remember speed kills and these bikes are frequently driven by riders who drive beyond their capabilities because they think it's cool,when its not. That's not just my opinion, it is years as a public safety officer in law enforcement, accident investigation, fire service and being a medic to more accidents that I can't unsee. I have also been trained in police motorcycle tactics, nothing I can't do on a motorcycle. Ride, safe, smart and pick the bike that fits you. Be a little bit of a rebel, as we bikers tend to be. Go your own way, not the way of the crowd. You will have more fun, I promise. BTW, you can have more than one bike and in time you will. I have five now and never thought that would happen (not bragging either) It is a passion, cheaper than a sports/muscle car and I know other that have more bikes than I do, so I don't feel so bad. I hope my experience helps someone in some small way. Live to ride, ride to live has meaning, be the safe, smart, gear up, be one with the machine, 100% alert and be the biker that inspires others to learn to ride too. Stay Safe and Peace to everyone. Brian
Looking through the comments here, i think its worth posting a take from the other side: I live in a rural area and my extended family are offroad fanatics. Im 30 and have about 14 years dirt bike experience. Fell in love with big adv bikes these last few years and no one in the offroad or motorcycle world seems to really get how capable these machines are in the hands of a strong, experienced rider. My group regularly go on multi day rides where we dont see pavement for 8 hours plus in groups with mixed levels, bikes, side by sides, and built suvs riding in convoy. On these trips where i dont want to ride hard enough to risk an injury, i always reach for the big bike and am still front of the pack. Because there is so much negative opinion out there, not just online but also at powersports dealerships, no one seems to believe that something like a gs with 50/50 tires can keep pace with dirt bikes and utvs. I blame this on who they market to. So many commenters here seem to be late middle aged or older with mostly street experience and bemoan the weight of these bikes. Its a real hassle if you drop it in the ditch, but if you are a strong rider its only marginally more challenging and you can be the guy who has the comfiest seat, the longest tank range, and so much luggage you can carry spare fuel, tools, food, and snacks for the intermediates on 250s and 450s. Long story short, these machines are plenty capable, problem is they should be marketed to dirt bike people who are tired of putting their bikes in the truck rather than street riders who want to go offroad. If you want to learn dirt, get a beater non road legal bike, all the gear, and thrash it till for a couple years. I wouldnt be able to make use of a big bike unless i'd done the hours dropping a small one thousands of times.
Good advice. I got rid of my Africa Twin for a klx300. Just ordered a few mods and some off road boots before I get back to my local trail. Plan on getting a more road focused bike later for touring.
@@jasoncee666 When the new Transalp comes to America I am going to go try one, considering the Tenere 700 since it's good for off road and in that middle weight class. Need to get more experience with the KLX300 off road before getting anything else though.
had a Tenere 700 I sold it and got me a drz 400 E for 1/3 of the price , so much fun im enjoying every minute in it any terrain any time whit friends or just solo ride
You are so right. I am now over 60 and although rarely ride off road, the effort required with a big adventure bike when I have done so is nowhere near offset by the extra comfort it affords me on the road. Filtering in traffic is also much harder than on something narrower. They have their place but not in my garage
At 63, I have four more reasons. A badly separated shoulder, a smashed and severely bruised hip and thigh, some cracked ribs and a badly broken foot that has wrecked my summer. These were all on different occasions with lengthy healing required for each. That being said 8 months of touring through all of Mexico on the bike was amazing and I wouldn't trade that for anything.
It depends where you are riding. In outback Australia, big ADV bikes are continent killers, eating long wide flat corrugated ‘tracks’. Perfect for carrying gear, at speed. But if it is more technical, yes, you want smaller.
Great job Solid, I think something in the 650 to 850 range would do just fine. Transalp ot the T-7 is what I'm looking at. Should be a great time building either one of them
@@Itchybite if you are looking a bike for tarmac and gravel roads, nothing. But the author of video is talking about real adventure,including hard offroad sections.
These big bikes are the equivalent of Range Rovers doing "Sloane Ranging". Expensive fashion/ lifestyle statements impractical for off road riding...but presumably their buyers already know that.
You are ABSOLUTELY RIGHT. Just think of dessert commandos riding in 450 kilos bike. Sucks right? Go for the lighter, nimble and fuel efficient adventure bikes. 400 to 850 cc., less than 250 kilos.
Current GS rider for many years. Truth is the combined weight and high center of gravity it is highly demanding a bike to go off-road with full protection it will weigh 600+ lbs. After maybe 3rd pick-up, it ceases to be enjoyable and just wish you are somewhere else. It is a great bike just don’t believe it will ride like a dirt bike.
My T7 has been perfect for what I need which is a 100-150km tarmac ride to the trails. And hitting anything short of single tracks or hard enduro for the day then ripping back the tarmac back home! Im a bigger guy so lifting up the T7 hasn’t been a problem ever even multiple times a day.
Of all of the videos I've seen with nearly this exact title, this is the only one I can truly respect as you mentioned the crazy folks like myself who like to throw the big bikes around in stuff people think you shouldn't. I have a 2017 Africa Twin and have followed 450s with the same fun they were having, but for others I definitely agree they might not want to commit to building the skills. Granted, gonna give a small shameless plug to the Africa Twin: picking it up is deceptively easy compared to others. Anyways, fantastic vid!
I totally agree with Cronicles. I believe I have come close to the holy grail (for me and my needs). I took my carburetor 450 EXC, installed MX cams, larger carburetor and punched the cylinder out to 540cc. Larger radiators with fans, an oil cooler, trick suspension, luggage rack subframe, 22 litre fuel tank, two aluminum 1,5 litre fuel bottles, Kriega luggage system, a wind deflector, a Garmin, anti vibration mounts for the handlebar, Stegpegz, Rekluse autoclutch, taller final gearing, Conti TKC 80 - and Bobzyerauntie 👌🏁. Again, this works as an ADV bike (for me). A bigger ADV is pointless for me, as I like to venture out on trails and mainly coz I am not a pro Dakar rider.
@@alrightdave6135 Yes Dave, your point is absolutely very valid. The motor needs more care. That said, the dictated factory maintenance intervals are based on racing use. When touring, perhaps only a fifth of your hours are deployed on grit where full engine load is needed/desired. That virtually reduces your need of maintenance by five. Besides, freshing a little half liter one pot engine, is quick and cheap. What you win, is a featherlight bike which shines in the dirt. Certainly, 4/5 of your hours will be on tarmac, where you'll not match the power of the big testosterone ADVs. your question to yourself is; who'd youze rather be? The happy boy in the mud or the comfy gent on the tarmac?
All said, I believe a big cc ADV is the best tourer you can buy, for certain. Only, be fit and young if you do single track riding. I'm immensely fortunate to own +30 bikes that I use frequently. I've been around a bit in the saddle and what I conclusively can say is: For a choice of one bike only, with a restrictive budget, it gets complicated and you must search what your soul's priorities are. I'd rather save up, have patience and buy two used different bikes, rather than one new bike "to do it all". I started with used bikes when I was young and wandered from cluelessness to half-wit. ☺️
Thank you for the good insight and for sharing your experience so many bikers out there wiil know something about big bike off-road thank you friend more power to you and god bless you 🙏
Agree with the multiple bikes for the price of new big adv approach. Got tired a long time ago of trying to do it all with one style of bike, especially after learning it wasn’t worth it to me to take big ADVs off-pavement. Currently have a maxiscooter for urban, a Himalayan for off-pavement, and the fantastic Versys 1000 for the high-speed road trips.
Not everyone can afford 3 bikes, 3 insurance, 3 maintenance, and don't have a way to store 3 bikes safely. There is never a single answer that can fit all necessities for every person.
Love my KTM 1190 ADV. Likely the most fun bike (street) I've ever owned and I've had many, dirt and street. It carves up the twisty tarmac so beautifully and fills me with confidence like no other bike I've had. I like to do some gravel roads but that's about the extent of off road for me on this bike. Like the video demonstrates, they are too big and heavy, for most of us, to really get into trail riding. You must decide what kind of riding you want to do. ADV bikes are a great choice if you are mostly street riding but if you want to get on a dirt or gravel road, you can. A dual sport is much better if you are mostly off road. I wouldn't want to ride one on long distance pavement at high speeds and twisties though.
I ride a 2019 KTM 1090R and not gonna lie, it kinda sucks on the highway. Quite a bit of headshake on the highway over 80mph and gets blown around like a feather by crosswinds. What’s the point of big power bikes if you can barely outrun a KLR on the highway? Thinking about selling it, getting a cheap sport tourer for commuting (FJR?), and picking up something like an EXC for weekend dual sporting.
The thing is, most stock adv bikes, talking 600cc and over, are not ready to tackle any challenge you throw at them, you need a couple of extra modifications, more importantly, adequate tires as a lot of adv bikes come out with road ready tires which obviously in this case are not the best at tackling snowy mountain off roads for instance. Also size matters a lot like you mentioned, these bikes in general weight 190kg+, so things such as seat height are a major factor to consider, since you ARE going to be needing to paddle / push your way out/use your feet for grip & keeping your balance a lot during your off road trips. As a skilled rider height/size should not matter on a daily comute city road, but it does matter while trying to dig yourself/balance yourself on more sinuous roads. You won't fare well being a 5'2 while riding a seat height that's 84cm to 90cm+ unless your inseam is disproportionate.
I agree 100% - but I still got the AT 1100L ;) If the smaller Transalp or the Vstrom were out at the time, I would have considered. I love my AT - it is a dream bike which I plan to keep 20+ years. I never considered taking her out on the dirt. It's mostly asphalt for me. Would dirt have come in my equation, I would have never bought it. When I first watched Ewan and Charlie on those bikes, I though "what a pair of novice riders - they chose pain..." It was a decision that added drama to the movies....
Jepp, I got a Honda CRF300 for offroad use and a Harley-Davidson 883 for the road. This summer, I road for 14 days over 3400 km on my Harley-Davidson. I went from the south of Norway to the north of Norway.
That's very true mate. We want to embark on an adventure trip for weeks and even months but without the struggle. I want to go in an adventure ride in a comfortable, maneuverability, and safety way. Enjoying the mountain passages and that old back road ahead. Zip a rich cup of coffee by a cozy fireplace.
Exactly. One thing the big adventure bikes do have over most (if not all) other bikes is they are spacious and ergonomic and can take all the luggage even with the kitchen sink. My F750GS of last year (though many would not consider it as a big adventure bike, for me it was big and heavy enough) was VERY comfortable and I could take all the stuff I "needed" for a road trip easily. But the weight was too much of a chore to handle at low speeds and parking, and yes - picking it up was a major challenge for me. So now I have a CB300R and love the handling, though the bike is kind of cramped. Something for something...
I bought one, a KTM 790 s. Got stuck where I needed help to get it turned around and off my leg. If I was alone who knows if I'd be here now. I need to get an InReach unit. I guess they are good for easy dirt roads. My KTM 300exc is a great dirt for trials. Anyway I parked the 790 and just picked up a KTM500exc-f 2023 model. Bar risers, Zumo XT, new springs and a Seat Concept seat. Will do just fine with Giant Loop Mojave saddle bags if you are hotelling it and not camping.
I agree with you. I'm bewildered at the weight of those big ADVs. I ride an old and light-ish DR650 which I don't wanna drop because raising it taxes my muscles to a breaking point. I don't do dirt, just unpaved country roads, where it's strong enough - and enjoyable.
Such a great segment, Chronicles. I have a 1250 GS which I really enjoy riding on the road. I like that fact that it’s big and comfy. 80% of my riding is with wifey on the bike with me. Still like riding off-road. Just prefer to do it on a bike that is better designed for that.
Absolutely spot on. I love the Africa Twin but it is massive. I believe you need to make an informed decision based on your height,weight,skills etc. and what roads you intend to ride it on..
A 125cc two stroke dirt bike was the first bike I had ever ridden. We were at some off road tracks and I was offered to ride the thing. I was just given a few instructions on how to change gears and stuff and that was it. It was pretty easy to ride and I was going through sand and stuff no problem. The light weight made controlling it so much easier.
Here in the USA, a 250cc is way better to learn on. After you gain some experience, it's s big enough to use on the road. You will get run over on a 125.
@@philippemorilhat8608 depends on age and finances. In Calif a 15 1/5 tear old can buy anything if they have the money. I started on a free Honda cb125!
I'm a beginner that wants to learn proper off road techniques. And this advice is echoed by basically every single YT channel that does offroad bike content. And it makes sense, if I want to learn how to parallel park a car, it will be a lot easier and quicker to learn that in a small car compared to a big truck. And when I want to learn how to powerslide through an entire turn on gravel, that will be so much easier to learn on a 150kg bike than a 250kg bike.
I will echo that, from experience. Having only ridden streets prior, when I got back into riding after a long break I started with a GSA. However, the next year I got a DRZ and saw the light. Of course now I wish I’d started with a true dirt bike and worked up, but that’s a different level of commitment since I don’t have (or want) a truck or trailer for one. Anyway, I still have both the DRZ and the GSA, for what it’s worth, and I enjoy each of them for their strengths. I think starting with something like a DRZ (or some other dual sport) makes a lot of sense.
I'll third that, and say it's not just for off-road techniques. After I got my open license I got a couple of larger bikes and my riding skill development essentially stopped. I was just hanging on and being taken places. Now I have a small dual sport and my on road and off road skills are both progressing again.
There's a lot you don't really expect till you do it, too. The simple experience of riding a heavy bike in the dirt is *significantly* more exhausting, physically just more work even if you're not dropping the bike. On longer days, that can detract a lot more than you expect.
@@Wintersdark Totally agree. I can tell you I’m much less “adventurous” if I’m on my GSA. Any surprise off pavement and in unknown territory can end up with me picking the behemoth up. One or two recoveries on a ride and you’re tired (or at least I am, at 61), sweaty, and worried about the next one. The DRZ is amazingly 200lbs lighter. Still a bitch to pick up sometimes because it falls very flat, and it’s worse if it’s fallen downhill or whatever, but it’s a lot easier to drag around into a better “lay”. I’m also less likely to suddenly drop it just because I get 10 degrees off center for whatever reason. I also just don’t care as much if I drop it.
I'm 36, 6"1' and race in hard enduro. I rode a 1200gs around Europe, a BMW 650 Rallye around the world, a Suzuki DRZ400 around Australia and now have a Honda CT90 for New Zealand that I'm riding back to the UK on.
They are pretty awesome for travel and cruising around, but aren’t ideal for off road for most people like you said. The more technical the terrain becomes the worse the idea of taking a big bike on it is. These things strength is long distance travel and riding around on pavement and gravel roads and they can be absolutely great at that. I am convinced that owning a street oriented bike of your liking and your favorite dirt bike/enduro bike is the perfect combo as well if you can pull it off. No dual sport or adventure bike can beat that combo in my opinion.
Really nice video on a great topic. As I found almost no unpaved roads left open to the public where I live, I've progressed in the opposite direction and now ride a SuperTenere. Happily, it works for me and my needs. I started as a returning rider on a KLR650, couldn't find much open dirt in my area, and now do more exploring/touring. Start small, it's a great way to learn what works for you and allows you to build skills quickly (if you put in the time!) Cheers all~
I just bought a V-Star 950a for "adventure" touring in style on a budget. Cruise in comfort all day and watch "Itchy Boots" in the evening around the campfire.
Some great points raised re the physical challenges but lets acknowledge the very real risks that this scenario invites. That doesn't always require an accident as such...at 55 with a dodgy lumbar disc I found my DR-Z400E became impractical and too tall for Enduro/hard off road as I aged and lost upper body strength. This came to a head when I had to lift it alone and re-injured myself. I sold it and went to a 250 Rally...I know, same weight on paper but worlds apart in ride experience. I have zero regrets and love the little Honda...I'm enjoying it again. Lower, lighter, easier, low key. Granted, it's no enduro weapon, but neither am I. I adjusted my riding to fit within the bikes capacities.
At least a couple manufacturers have moved in the right direction with the T7 and Aprilia 660 wet weights being halfway between a 690 and a GSA 850. Notice that neither have light dual sports to compete against either 😉
You're absolutely right. I've been through this and totaly agree. If you're not Chris Birch don't do it. If a fully packed ADV Bike falls you make a split even if you can't - results in a torn muscle in my thigh in the middle of nowhere. For onroad touring they're great, comfy, good handling, powerfull engine and good protection - miss my VStrom.
You've summed up my experience and why I went for a DR650 perfectly. I've owned chookies, a variety of fast road bikes, and an R100GS. $$ Too heavy on dirt. I hired an R1200GS and rode around 3000 km including dirt. $$$ Brilliantly capable, heavy, long distance road bike. Waaaay too heavy on dirt. I hired a Triumph XC $$ and rode 6000km road and some easy dirt. IMO, another road bike. Too heavy on the limited dirt I rode. The DR? $ Light enough on dirt, could be lighter, fast enough on road if you travel near limits. Does most riding well enough. Not a big comfy road tourer. When I fall off stuff doesn't break, or is cheap to replace. No adv tax. 😂 🤷♂️ Life's a compromise. A DR suits me now. Next year? I'm not getting any taller or stronger, maybe not. One day it might be a postie bike 😂
Very true. I made that mistake and bought a R1200GSA - it was the most expensive, least fun bike I had owned. And when I dropped it - luckily on my driveway, my neighbor had to help me to lift it. Now when I shop for a bike weight matters to me more than power or bling.
@@Dirtpoorhomesteader petite women ride, drop, and lift Harley cruisers, run marathons, and do all sort of things I personally have zero interest in doing. You can drop and lift a porky BMW ‘adventure’ R (annually increasing displacement) if you so desire, I will steer well clear of it.
Some cracking advice here. As a happy owner of a 2018 ATAS, I can't emphasize enough the need for practice, training and a good level of physical fitness if you're going to take these big boys off road. Fully protect the bike because you will drop it. Several times. Bark busters are essential. And don't go out off-road alone. You may be able to lift it off a blanket in the garage but lifting it at odd angles in the rain and mud is nearly impossible. They're fantastic trail tourers but unless you're an off-road God, you're going to struggle when things get greasy and technical.
I am a Jeep Tour Guide in Colorado. I spend a lot of time helping guys pick their "big bikes" up after dumping them. The tires just spin out if you try to start off heading uphill on the loose terrain in this area..
Yes, I am a case in point. A returning rider, last bike I owned was in 1984. I wanted to get back into trail riding and bought a new Tenere 700, thought the power would somehow balance out the weight. Big mistake, the Tenere is a lot of things but it ain't no dirtbike. Sold it 4 months later and bought a KLX 250S. Two years on and the little Kawasaki is no worse for wear. My riding skills are where they need to be and I am back on the road with a 2022 XSR 700 Tribute. What a great bike, kind of feel like Steve McQueen...... Peace!
I started on an Africa Twin. After almost getring stuck in New Mexico quicksand and barely able to get it out in the middle of nowhere, i decided it was too much for me. I now have a WR250R and loving it.
Absolutely agree with you Solid - I had a 1000CRF and LOVED it, I really did. It was great on the tarmac, very comfy, the DCT was amazing, I miss it. But it was WAY too heavy for Cape York or sandy tracks. I haven't found a new bike yet but I know it won't be more than 500 CC :)
@@chroniclesofsolid Great video, just saw it. I have 2 bikes: Yamaha XTZ 150: this is my day-to-day bike, I also use it for fun on trails. Inexpensive, very light, easy maintenance, frugal on gas (35km/l). Tiger 900 Rally: this is for my long trips, with my wife, and tons on luggage, on our terrible tarmac roads. Any other bike of this class here is way more expensive (KTM890 is 60% more, GS850 and Africa Twin is 20% more). We do not have any Aprillia or Husk. Also no new Honda Transalp or 300Rally, new Suzuki 800 or Tenere 700 available.
All bike and all distance all direction will make me meet my true feelings, sooner or later, one way and bike or another, be it 120 or 1200 miles. Stop and give away your smile for free (maybe helping hand and more) - I think that's what it's all about in the end. (Good tip not to rule out the Intruders! Thank you for sharing!)
Yes, I have a CRF250L and recently bought a Husqvarna 701 Enduro, they are about the same weight. Wouldn't even consider anything heavier than the 701 for adventure riding. The CRF250L is actually easier to ride on single tracks and when stuff gets more technical. A lot of that has to do with the tires I run though (full enduro on CRF, 50-50 on 701). For longer trips with tarmac the 701 is better, but not by much honestly.
totaly agree see lots of people on these type of bikes and first time the get on some gravel it hits them, coming from a big off road background this year done some traveling on my MT09sp and lvoed it but wanting somthing that can do more miles now and also can handle a good bit of the dirty stuff so going for the tiger 1200 rally pro next year just doesnt feel all that big of a bike once riding even slow moving was very impressed great video
5:09 ! That’s one part of the video I do agree with ! Buy two bikes … yep ! I have a new R1250GSHP and a new CRF450RX Both completely complement each other.
Bingo. I bought an 890 Adv R for WY BDR. AWESOME when you're doing 80 on street or gravel sections, but at 440lbs, it is a monster to pick up when you dump it. It also can't get anywhere near smaller bike handling on dirt and gravel. Sold that, bought a 690 Enduro R and added a Rade Garage kit, and took off a bunch of weight with Ti exhaust, a lightweight battery an a couple others. Not as sweet on the road without cruise control and the 890's low vibration, but I can ride that thing almost anywhere I can ride my 500, AND I can pick it up if I'm solo and I dump it. Also - We do the hotel thing so we don't bring camping gear, and that means we're packing 25 lbs ish. But that does mean we go out and challenge ourselves with the hard stuff.
Great video, and I couldn’t agree more. Having decent skills both on and off road, and the proud owner of a 23 1290R I consider my 1290 nothing more than a sport touring bike that’s dirt road compatible lol. It’s just a toy. No bags, no rear pegs, just blasting on gravel roads!!! I’m 65
![Noob To Max With DRAGON REWORK In Blox Fruits [FULL MOVIE]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/LnBMOinoOvA/mqdefault.jpg)
I guess there is a tool for every job. Most people are not interested in Enduro riding. Not everyone is into technical climbs, rock gardens and drowning bikes in waist deep mud. Most riders can only afford one bike, so that bike needs to be versatile. Must be able to carry a passenger, commute to work, capable of touring and have the option to explore offroad. That’s why midsize ADV are hugely popular, they are the perfect tool to cover large distances, explore new forest paths, chew hundreds of Kms of corrugations, and go on remote camping adventures.
It really depends where you live and the type of riding you do. Me fore instance, I love riding offroad, but I got rid of my enduro bikes and moved to mid-size ADVs. The closest trails are 60Km from my home, doing that stretch of highway on a dual sport is exhausting. Loading a bike on the trailer every Saturday is not my cup of tea, and I want to spend my scarce free time riding a bike rather than driving a car, adjusting straps on a trailer and also having to do frequent maintenance intervals.
Having two bikes would be ideal, but not everyone can afford it
The voice of reason.
Mid size ADV bikes are great in their versatility. Heavy weight ADV ‘flagships’ that Solid is talking about are tourers, way overweight, overpriced, and overly complex for venturing far from pave for a rider with an average skill set.
For the price of one of the flagship elephants, you could probably afford two smaller bikes.. just sayin'..
@@ArtTheTractorthe mid range bikes have the same complexity and features as the flagships minus the t7. As far as weight goes I’d prefer to pick up my gs with its boxer engine over any midrange bike any day that lays completely flat.
You spoke my mind! Versatility.
I recently sat on a Africa Twin at a dealership. I couldn't believe how BIG it was. There's no way I would want such a big and heavy bike. Now I'm much better suited with a Honda CB500X...also known as the half-frica twin.
In the beginning, that's the case. My Goldwing too, beginning, it felt cumbersome with the weight and power but after 1 year of riding, I more or less got the bike under control. Like the video mentioned, just do what your heart tells you. In the end, you know what you want when you go riding.
I went from a cb500x to an Africa twin, felt the same as you, but by adjusting the shock and seat now my feet are closer to the ground than in the cb500x
CB500X worst suspension ever. It was only bad as new, the rear shocked stopped absorbing any rebound and it now just a bumpy spring after only 20K km.... Honda Thailand.
Now just imagine for a moment, if you were a great big strong bloke, that Africa Twin would probably start to look attractive wouldn’t it?
Not one size fits all
Yep, 80 years old, bought a 2022 CB500X, 439 lbs added 45 lbs of engine/crash guard, tool box, skid plate, pannier and luggage racks, and I can pick it up.
that´s what I just did with the NX500 - how was the year with your CB500X? :)
He died of old age
shouldnt be on a bike at 80 buddy
@@thelonewolf666 why not?
@@thelonewolf666you are too old when you think you are. Ride until you can’t.
At 70 I’ve been riding long and hard for over fifty years. A few months ago I added an Africa Twin DCT to my garage. While I agree with most of what’s argued here, I’d add a few caveats. First, “off road” for me (and most?) means off tarmac; plenty of interesting off tarmac is available where I live. I paid about 50% off MSRP for a fully farkled low mileage “pre-loved” example - if it gets bruised, it gets bruised. I’ve got other bikes (sport/road and lighter off road) to ride; I wouldn’t want a big dual purpose for my only bike. Bottom line? It depends . . . and, I really enjoy the Africa Twin.
Im in my late middle age, used to race on the track and have started to grumble about my back and joints. But when I grow up I want to be just like you!
Yeah out here in Arizona there's so many long dirt roads. They go through the desert for miles and miles and those big adventure bikes hit the mark perfectly. I still bought a thumper because I don't like being held down to one genre of dirt riding.
You literally are the type of man I look up to. It scares me to think about when I can't ride. When I see someone your age still doing it with a bunch of bikes in the garage, gives a man hope for the future
Good stuff! I'm an AT owner myself and agree that the definition of "off road" can include well-maintained gravel or hard-pack, and a big ADV is certainly fine there in the hands of an average rider. "Pavement" isn't a monolithic category either-another thing I've come to appreciate about ADV's is their performance on BAD roads. The suspension soaks up potholes, spoked wheels are both tougher and more repairable, and the weight means you aren't thrown off-course so easily. All that combined with the wonderful ergonomics and ability to carry luggage, and there's nothing I'd prefer for a cross-country trip.
Same here. I have a KTM 530 for nasty stuff and I just bought a Africa Twin for road and light off road stuff.
The dct model is really comfortable, near big scooter experience, just play a little with the shock and seat and my feet are touching completely and firm the ground
My dealer tells me that most adventure bikes are bought by older riders and never taken off road. No rider over 60 is going to spend hour after hour on a sport bike. Compared with a cruiser, ABs have a much better riding position, resembling riding a horse, whereas a cruiser has your legs forward and all your weight on your tailbone. They are also a couple of hundred pounds lighter which makes them more fun to ride. In the last 20 years, I have had 3 ABs: a 2003 V-Strom 1000, a 2015 Multistrada (total POS, will never buy another Ducati) and a 2020 1290 SAS which I rate as a great ride. Yes, I was sad to sell my R1, but I could ride it for less than 30 minutes, particularly in town, before I was worn out. Again ABs are perfect bikes for older riders and I am delighted that manufacturers are embracing them.
I’m 62. I’m getting to the point where even my trusty ol’ DR650 ‘ADV’ is getting too heavy. After I’ve dropped it four or five times in rough going, I start to lose interest. I wish, wish, wish somebody would build a sub-350 lb ‘ADV’ with decent off-road chops, decent highway manners and a little wind protection, making 40-50 HP and equivalent torque. That’s all I want or need, and I’d gladly pay a premium for it. Especially if it comes with cruise control and all the other modern farkles. Come on, manufacturers, I’m just sitting here waiting to throw money at you, and I’m never going to buy even one of your “middleweight” ADVs - even those are just too much for me off-road.
I've got high hopes for the coming KTM 390 Enduro/AdventureR.
There is a time in our lives to think of change hobbies or offroad to tarmac.
@@DieTabbi I’m not planning on going gently into that good night, my friend. I’m going to ride can ‘til can’t, and I got a ways to go to can’t.
@@tracythorleifson KTM 500 EXC and put a screen on it.
Beta 480rr.
My opinion: you have to chose the right bike for your needs! Heavy @bikes fit perfect for a long trip through the continent, but are totaly wrong for single track. Still, they are surprisingly capable, as long as the wheels turn..
The golden rules are:
-Never go in gnarly Terrain all alone with big bikes, you will need some hands to get out of troubles.
- Never go with mixed bikes, i mean light dual sport and big heavies together. It will always be a stress for the extreme opposits.
-don't take too much stuff with you, even when big bikes offer the space for you. You will hate every kg you carry for nothing, including bling bling on your bike, when it's getting tough. But conquering a difficult trail on heavy bikes together with your mates, helping each other can also be a fantastic feeling, like:"yeah, we did it!"
@@benm468 I get your point, there is always a tough track, but also nearly always an alternative nearby. Sometimes one has to try and turn back, if it's getting too difficult, the heavier the bike, more often will that happen. But for me, isn't that also part of adventure riding?
For my part, I travel with minimum baggage, when I am on my big bike(990@) so I can handle tracks where overloaded Gs's etc. don't even try :-)
@@chrigul1well said! On my gs it’s not even a battle with my pride anymore. I just turn around and find a alternate route.
I've own both Gen1 & Gen2 KLR 650 no doubt they literally ate the best of both adventuring world.😊😊
@@brettdemauna9994 yeah, no doubt. Like the DR650 the Kawas are epic Bikes, for me the older models even more because of no nonsens bikes :-) saidly they stopped the import long time ago in Switzerland because of emmision standarts. Only the new KLR is avaiable again, but for me a bit too heavy for a single
@@benm468, North America has major highways. You don't have to go off-road. It just won't be as much fun.
The best adv bike I’ve ever ridden turned out to be a Honda cb125. It goes anywhere with its big wheels and 114 kilos fully fueled. And burns 1.5L per 100km so you can get 700km from a tank 😅
That is also why i just bought a Sym ADX 125 all terrain scooter. It's the only real off road capable scooter. When i want it the hard way i take my dirt bike and go to the racing track. ( 7 liter for 100km by the way.....)
Just went on a 6 day logging road adventure with a handful of people. Some with big bikes (like me on my africa twin) and some with smaller bikes (like CRF300 and DR650s) and I can confirm this 100%. While I had to slow down for every corner, those on lighter bikes could ride much faster and had WAY more fun in the end.
First big adventure bike I ever rode felt exactly like riding my street bike on a dirt road. Went out and bought a thumper that weighs 250 lb with lights and turn signals.
They're so good about marketing them and designing them in a way that makes you want one even when you know they're bad LOL
Skill issue
@@jeffreydecker3189 No mate, 450 pounds is 450 pounds, no matter which way you look at it... Nothing to do with skill, not everyone wants to be superman fit to enjoy riding.....
@@MickH60 I just did 10 days on a logging road adventure and we had a swell time on heavy bikes hauling ass the whole time. Smaller bikes did no better than those of us on 1090s. It’s very dependent on the type of riding though. But logging roads are great for big bikes.
Easy to say but when you are over 6’5 a lot of the small bikes are uncomfortable for us tall guys
Only dyna with forward pegs
Nobody makes a comment on my Moto Guzzi V85TT! a great all around and easy to ride on dirt and gravel. Not for very technical tracks if you don't have the proper training. But a wonderful bike.
I believe Ewan and Charlie certainly fueled the big bike adventure craze. I wonder how many people were disappointed to find out they didn’t come with chase trucks and a group of people working out the logistics for them
They werent dissapointed, they just felt the weight of the bike and shook in their boots at the thought of gravel and mud.
This is all about "status leisure" motorcyclists. BMW identified this market back in the 70s when they launched the R90. Non-profile bikers will ride just about anything from old Suzuki Bandits to new Blades. ADV riders, on the other hand, are often into activities which broadcast their perceived status. They want the biggest, most expensive ADV with all the boxes, like they must have the most bloated SUV in their driveway. Harley D also have a slice of this market. Thing is, 8 out of 10 don't actually own the hardware, and hand it back after the two year PCP term.
@@domenik8339my gs is the best gravel bike I have ever owned. I ride gravel all day.
@@James-gf9jlI’m lower middle class and bought a used gs. Hands down the best bike I have ever owned. The only bike that has stayed in my garage for more than 4 years and I still have zero plans of ever selling.
🤡
Great to see someone tell it as it is! I rode a KLR650 from U.S. through South America. I met many on road with big bikes, they toured great on paved but off-road were nightmares while I had zero problems! One friend on a GS spent more just shipping his bike home from Peru after catastrophic failure then I spent on mine including buying cost and maintenance for 1 year 50000km!!!
Actually I should add on the salar uyuni from Bolivia to Chile I broke engine mount bolt but I replaced it with bolt from luggage system then got locals to repair in Chile. Can't do that with GS!
I had a KLR650 and I loved it for off-road and trail riding, but it was not great for riding distance on the freeway. Above 60mph, I’d get a ton of vibration in the handlebars. I really need to be able to do both so I’m looking into adventure bikes. I’m considering an African Twin or a Super Tenere so far. Both are bigger, though. I’ll probably do more road riding than off-road, but off-road is my favorite and I want to be able to do that. What’s your take? Any advice?
SO TRUE
I went from a BMW GS1250 to a KTM 980 to a BMW G310GS.. I have 45 years of experience riding Street bikes and almost nothing off road. I love everything abouth these comfort mamouth 500lbs+ couches on wheels but, grew tired of having to pick them up. I wanted to enjoy riding not fight Mike Tyson each time I fell off or got stuck in the mud. With a large ADV one can't ride alone. It's just too stressful having to worry do I have to call someone for help if I couldn't get untuck from the mud. Now five years later and a 375Lbs G310GS I can ride all day with no worries. I have the TAT and Continental Divide under my belt I'm also planning a solo trip to South America (Patagonia) then onto Europe. Sure I had to do a some mods and upgrade to the suspension and wire wheels but now I can finally focus on enjoying my trips not fighting with it. Sure there are some drawbacks but it's worth it. A smaller ADV is the way to go if you truly want to travel 90% off road. Big ADV bikes are perfect if you want to look good and travel mostly on pavement.
Agreed....seems like we have a similar lineage. I'm still nursing my 08 990 here in Utah (I love it so) and have a 1250 in Europe. Wife and I just got back from 10 days on parts of the Wyoming BDR and Continental Divide trail yesterday and was thinking about moving to midsize or light ADV (If I can find one w/out 8 computers)) My little WR250R is ok for shorter jaunts, but not quite where I need it to be. As you said, when you get in trouble in the middle of nowhere on one of the beasts, you have a whole other set of issues to deal with....and I'm not getting any younger. As an old boat captain told me when I was looking for a coastal cruiser years ago..."the amount of fun you will have with your boat is inversely related to it's length." Something similar seems to apply, here so still dreaming of that 650cc unicorn that's not a KLR. :) Have fun in Patagonia and be safe . Friends rode down last year and had a blast with a few sketchy moments.
Enjoy all South America especially the Patagonia region. As an Argentine native I’d suggest you just avoid big cities (most of the times the capitals). In the country side of all South America you’ll find the best ever hospitality from wonderful locals. Greetings from Colorado. I might head that way too next year
@@ChrisBorghi22 I hope our paths cross on some dirt road 🙌👍
Yeah I'm on the 310gs now but after an accident last December I'm looking for something even lighter. Still not sure which way to go yet.
I agree 100%. I've ridden a HD from Arkansas to Yukon, CA and a 1200cc Yamaha Super Tenere to Alaska and Artic Circle. The HD was much more comfortable, had cruise control and CB radio. Only rode the Tenere on dirt on the Dalton Highway so much better than an HD on that short 400 miles. Also rode a Dual Sport KTM 350 from east coast to west coast on the Trans America Trail (TAT). Saw lots of big adventure bikes on the TAT but dual sport is only way to go on that type of riding. Best dual sport is the Yamaha WR250R!!!! BTW I was in my late 60's and early 70's when I made those rides.
I had a air cool R1200GS for 6 years. It really surprised me how good it was offroad. It was a bit big and heavy but just manageable for me at 5'6. It was easy to pick up as the cylinders stopped it from falling over all the way.
I would recommend one of these if you do want to try off roading on a big bike. Just keep a bit of money spare for shaft drive repairs.
Fully agree. Im going to swap my KLR650 for the Honda CRF300L.
"LIGHT IS RIGHT"
Oh love this CRF 300 L excellent choice 👌
I don’t get why people choose CRF300L. I rode it onroad and offroad and it’s just horrible. I would pick DRZ400’over it any day.
ruclips.net/video/w1YOKkF_5pw/видео.html
and here I'm thinking about getting an africa twin :D
@@ridingtheeast1121 its powerful enough for most people and since its a recent model it has more support. plus it being honda is another factor. its damn reliable.
its only downside is somewhat soft suspension which is necessary because the rate it accelerates is surprising.
Well big ADV bikes might not be the best bike for everyone, but I have found them to be perfect for me. I use my bike for all sorts of stuff, from after work fire road shenanigans, over longer weekend trips, to multi day holiday travel. I have tried many styles of bikes, all have left me longing for more variety. I had a ninja which was fun, but awefull on bad roads and uncomfortable on longer rides, switched to a virago which was much more comfortable, but left me standing in front of a lot of fireroads thinking "damn I wish I could blast along here". So I got a crf-250, to realize quickly that Offroading is fun, but getting there is miserable. So I sold both and got myself a F650GS Dakar. And this was the first bike that really made me feel free, because I could just go anywhere with it. It was decent on road, really good off road and was really comfortable, so I could easily make longer tours and see a ton of new things. So I knew this style of bike was perfect for me. After about 2 years I realized I still wanted a bit more on road focus, since most of my offroading was fireroads and forest paths and next to no hard offroading, and I wanted a bit more weight, so the bike was less influenced by wind when I'm riding on the highway for vacation or work. So I ended up selling it and got a R1200GS and I do not know how a bike could be more perfect for me and my riding profile.
But thats just me. I don't want to go into the extremes on any front. Surely if you love dragging knees in corners, an adv bike isn't for you. If you want to do trails and fight through the actual wilderness, and adv bike isn't for you. If you enjoy stunting, an adv bike isn't for you. If you like to go to the extremes in anything, an adv bike probably isn't for you. But if you just want to relax, have some fun, enjoy the weather and the environment around you and just go where you please, an adv bike might just be the perfect thing for you.
Thanks for sharingb that's really helpful 🙂
If you look at this guy, you can clearly see that he has many complexes. I feel sorry for him. He was born weak, and 200 years ago, he could not survive.
Yes exactly. And nowadays you can get mid sized advs for a pretty ok price, the old „adv tax“ thing only really applies to these huge monumental top-of-the-shelf advs. When it comes to these generalist types of bikes it all comes down to your balance of on- and offroad riding. Advs are more cumbersome in rough terrain but good on roads and dual sports can crush any black diamond single-track you want but are complete ass for commuting or any kind of prolonged road riding. It‘s pick your poison I guess. And then again there is a middle ground between the two, mid sized advs are pretty capable offroad and there are many people „adventurizing“ their dual sports to turn them into lightweight advs.
Great video. I love my huge adventure touring bikes, because I don't take them off road. They are great touring bikes, yes you can get cheaper bikes to tour on, but nothing beats the all day comfort and low maintenance of a shaft drive upright seating bike.
Exactly this.
Nothing better than my old R1150GS 2 up for touring.
Especially seeing that I’m 6’3”
Don’t even notice the pillion is there
Absolutely well said. I’ve made this mistake and couldn’t be happier having gone to my DR650. The heaviest I’ll go now is a T7 and that’s pushing the weight limit.
As the owner of a T7 (used for daily commuting and adventure touring) and an old rebuild DRZ for the dirty stuff, I couldn't agree more.
@@Tr3ggs there’s honestly no better combo for me right now. I don’t own a T7 yet, but was considering doing exactly the same. I sat on a T7 the other day and was really impressed.
@@ComfyDadShoesI just got a T7 and it will surprise you how capable it is off road. I have a back ground in motox and enduro but I haven’t been off tarmac for nearly 15 years and I was ripping up trails and some steep Rocky climbs easily on the T7. It’s some beast
@@ComfyDadShoes the only thing that turned me off when I rode a mates was the top heavy nature that is made worse by its tall suspension and my shorter legs eg a disaster waiting to happen.
yep DR is nice...
Started riding at age 47 on 2016 F700GS. Got good training and rode with many levels of riders. Never was scared to drop the bike. I'm shorter at 67" so the lower ride height helped. That bike was dropped well over 100 times in a couple years. Now ride a 1250GS and pretty confident off rode. Woody's wheels and altrider crash bars. Rode with several much better long timers on T700's and they couldn't get over how I could keep up in the dirt. They now ride GS's and will not go back. They do a lot very well! Spend money on training. Don't be afraid to practice in dirt parking lots and don't be afraid to scratch the crash bars or skid plate! Most of all, don't be afraid to push forward a bit at a time!
I moved from the CRF300L Rally to a Norden 901 a few weeks ago and love it. Surprisingly it's just as easy to pick up due to the fuel tank design, handles equally well in technical riding, and somehow feels even more agile on the tarmac.
Congrats mate, lovely bike 😎
Well it depends on your definition of technical riding. On the milder tracks yes the 300 has no real advantage when things start getting really tight sorry mate there is no comparison between these two bikes. That is not to say the Norden can’t do it but it will sure make you work for it.
@@tonyrdr7207 every bike is a compromise, but the Norden is less of one in just about any aspect. It will do 99% of single track with a little extra work. But it will never make it in Erzberg or that other 1% lol
@@tonyrdr7207 but any trail the 300L Rally could go, the Norden can too.
@@marcochavane3124 fully loaded expedition style and solo, if you are an average rider like me no not really there are limits though not many. If you are like Nerb1 or someone like that yes indeed . Don’t get me wrong I come from big bikes myself and have taken an 1150 on some very hard trails. The heavy bikes can probably do 95%
Excellent points. As a returning rider 3 years ago (48 at that point) with no real off-road experience other than mountain bikes, I bought a Yamaha XT250 to get started. The bike is an absolute wonder for learning not only off-road skills but motorcycling skills in general. In a year of consistent riding (about 3,000 miles, mostly fairly technical off road) I felt I wanted to up my game and get an adventure bike. My choice was a Tenere 700. It was a revelation and not in a good way. At 5’10” with 32 inseam the bike felt super tall and incredibly heavy. I was shocked how different it felt off road than the XT250. I basically had to re-learn how to ride it off road. I got beat up a lot doing it but persisted and after a year and another 3,000 miles of mostly off road riding, I feel fairly competent in fairly technical terrain. But it is never enjoyable in such terrain as the XT250 is. I always feel stressed when taking it on technical trails because of it’s weight (485 lbs with bars and other necessities). Although I’m fit and can always lift it even in difficult terrain, it is a brutal effort. Tenere is top heavy and it loves to pull you down any chance it gets. In less technical terrain or on tarmac, it’s a blast because of the power. Overall I enjoy it very much but I’m judicious on what terrain I take it on. If I had to choose between XT250 and T7 for an around-the-world journey with any significant off roading, I’d take the XT250 every time. They are both awesome bikes, but as capable as T7 is off-road, you have to have mad off-road skills and superhuman strength to take it alone on rough single tracks. I think that for most people, middleweight and heavy ADV bikes are not a good choice for serious off-roading. It’s far more fun to ride a light dual sport off-road that can still do highway miles at 70-75 mph. You’ll just have to avoid high speed freeways.
Sounds like you have a two bike problem.
Very true. I downgraded myself from a Versys 650 to Yamaha XT250 for the sake of enjoyment. Riding a big bike is a constant task. Riding a small bike is fun. And just like you i'll take the XT 250 anywhere with no worries of having to manhandle it
I did right the opposite, started with the T7 (bought it in an auction so I couldn’t feel how tall and heavy it was) and I’ve recently bought an XT 250 which I’m getting in love with hitting the mountains of Colorado. Im 5’6” weighting 160 so I might sell the T7, but since I’m planning to travel down to my native Argentina next year I’m still thinking what’ll my best choice. Thanks for your comment! Cheers!
yes they are way way too tall
As always, solid commentary on a complex topic with countless opinions. Big bikes can mean big fun and big challenges. I've been riding and teaching on a KTM 990 in the woods, mountains and deserts for 15 years, and as it was my 1st "dirtbike" one of your comments stood out to me as very accurate. If you don't have a deep desire to invest the time and effort to learn how to ride these bikes off-road (and I don't mean off-tarmac) ....don't waste your time and money. You will at best inconvenience and frustrate yourself and at worst endanger others. And while many trainings focus on picking up these beasts, I start from the other end of the spectrum. Before I accept an off-road student, I have them send me a video of their ability let that bike fall to the ground. If you cannot walk up to your brand new $20k motorcycle and nock it off its kickstand into the dirt, you are not going out into the woods with us. The only thing that keeps a 500lb bike upright is balance and momentum. When people are more focused on damaging their bike than keeping it moving in tough conditions, bad things WILL happen. There is nothing worse when maneuvering a big bike than creeping along because you are scared to drop it. My suggestion...get over that fear, wear those scratches and dents as a badge of honor. If you can't do that, maybe just stick to the roads with your big ADV bike. Thanks for all your great content!
I think it comes down to the fact there’s no unicorn bike. I am fortunate to have both a GSA and a DRZ400s. When I’m off pavement on the GSA I often wish I was on the DRZ, and when I’m on pavement on the DRZ I often wish I was on the GSA.
Recently I planned a 2-night Moto-camp that involved a 75+ trip to get to the campsite. I intended to take the DRZ (state highways) because I wanted to use the middle day to try out some OHV trails near the campground. Well, I got rained out the first day, which turned it into a one-day trip. That made the OHV side-trip difficult (just not enough time), and I didn’t really love the idea of riding the DRZ 75 miles all packed up with stuff for just an overnight, so I took the GSA. Easy, because I could just dump stuff into the hard cases, and be off, rather than fiddling with the soft bags on the DRZ.
Anyway, the ride was super easy on the GSA, of course. I started setting up camp, but before long I noticed the campsite was acrawl with ticks. Freaking ticks everywhere, and I mean EVERYWHERE. I decamped after a couple hours, and rode right back home, dusk into night, 80-90mph on the freeway with my heated grips turned on. That would have been impossible on the DRZ. Instead, I would have been creeping along the state highway with feeble lighting guiding my way, freezing my ass off due to no wind protection.
That said, I still LOVE my DRZ and rode it up to some gravel/dirt roads the very next weekend and had a blast.
After all the above, I still strongly wonder whether I could replace both bikes with a KTM/Husky 690/701 and have the worst of both worlds ;-)
I can relate to your lighting wows, was at The Alpine Loop on a KTM450 got side tracked off the mountains cause clutch problems then a 4hour highway trip back to hotel, it got dark and literally couldn't see anything. I had to trail a truck or car most of the way, scary. Sold that bike a week after I got back.
@@doublex632 Yeah it's a big deal. Funny that you comment, I'm working on my DRZ and hope to be mounting a new LED headlamp ... today! Should make a huge difference🤞.
@@mike.thomas I picked up a 22KLR and the headlight is next level, the best headlight I've ever had :) good luck thanks
AGREED --- lite-is-right. 60 yrs of riding has taught me that one, even on the street that is true. Ditch the weight or weight in ditch😮
Gyro
oops too late bought a 1290. because its thinning in appearance.
Great points . I’m 64 and have ridden for most of my life. I’ve been on GSAs since 2008 then an ATAS DCT ES for a few months last year and now a KTM 890 Adventure (non-R). Weight or rather top-heavy weight was the reason I changed. The Honda was narrower and lighter than the GSA but less stable at low speeds in traffic. I like the KTM a lot other than the seat. What’s missing is a light, comfortable single cylinder bike with decent power and weather protection. The nearest for me is the KTM/Husky/Gas Gas 690/701/700 family but all are compromised by being tall, rock hard seats (despite these being “Travel” bikes), and no weather protection unless you add rally towers. I don’t care about off-road capabilities but ADV bikes have a riding position I like.
The 700 Austrian family bikes also seems to have issues with the fuel cap design allowing dirt into the tank and killing the fuel pump.
Think of your big ADV as you would a 4WD van, compared to a 125 / 250 is dirt bike Jeep. They’re completely different animals. Me, I live in Las Vegas (middle of a desert) and I have at least a couple hours riding on the highway to get to a place with trees to camp. Freeway speed limits in the 70-80 MPH range. I’ve found that as big and heavy as my AT is, it can carry all my gear for boondocking (self contained camping) and has the weight / horsepower to keep up with traffic. Nice as it’d be to be on a 250 when I hit the dirt, I’m not sure a smaller bike would make it through the freeway part at all!
Well said!
Ive been riding for well over 50 years on a variety of big cruisers, full dressers, dirt, dual sports, and ATV's. I still ride them and have added a new dual sport KLR650 to the garage. Its not particularly powerful, not great for tearing up the dirt track,,,but is perfect for getting down the highway at 70mph to the backroads to the jeep trails. I can load my camping gear and essentials and get away for a few days. Every cycle has a specific purpose and my KLR has its own. Whats your purpose? Life is too short. Get out and ride,,,one way or the other.
Btw,,,im 68 yo. It helps to stay in shape. I like 10/12 mile cross country hikes/hunts. But the best advice I can give is 'get up-get out.' You've heard Toby Keith's song 'Don't Let the Old Man in?' It's true...keep moving. I hope to see you on the trail.
Well said 👍
good video and good advice too, we all ride and we all have different levels and experience , so get out there and ride , enjoy , for me i have been riding off road for years and now been looking for something with longer legs but still very capable off road so i have purchased a ktm 690 enduro R , just turned over 90 k , so yeap its new , very impressed so far , its good weight , well balanced , good power ,and fun bike to ride , ill keep you updated . cheers Steve/ Geraldton
i testride 800De on road and offroad , and my feelings was that i could ride it DAYS without any fatigue
I was just thinking about this today while I was driving back to Angels Camp from Sonora in the California Gold Country (only about 14 miles, 25 minutes). I was in my pickup truck, having gone to Sonora to buy something at the big box hardware store there, and there must have been 20 bikes in that 14 miles, going the opposite way, in groups of 2 or three. All but one bike was a big adventure bike with the GS's outnumbering all others. I couldn't help thinking about how great those bikes must be on the small highways like the one they were on, and how horrendous they would be on the sorts of roads I like to ride on up here in the Mother Lode region. My off road adventure bike is a 2004 DR650 and my on road adventure bike is a 2016 KLR. I never go faster than 65 on the local highways so why pay for 110 hp when 40 will do the job quite nicely. The DR, at 100 lbs. lighter than the KLR, is WAY better in the dirt and pretty much all the bike I can handle. I am one of the "returning" riders and have been riding again for 4 years now after a 20 year hiatus. Even the KLR is more than I want to have to lift after falling, hence the DR. I can't imagine trying to pick up a GS.
Yeah, unfortunately you are right. Just to put things in perspective: Getting a Big Adventure Bike and going Off-Road is like getting yourself a Chevrolet Suburban or any other comparable SUV and take that huge heavy land yacht out for a Off-Road adventure...yeah not gonna happen !
In fact those Big Adventure Bikes really are the Big Heavy SUV Motorcycles on this planet.
Ask yourself this question every time you are challenged to take an Off-Road trip: Would you take a Chevrolet Suburban here..? When the answer is No! then don't take your Big SUV or your Big Adventure Bike there. This will prevent a lot of damage, pain, and tears. A Big Adventure Bike really is a tarmac travelers Bike to go discover a continent from a paved road perspective. You will have the maximum of fun! Just stay away from unpaved roads ! Just like you would with your Chevy Suburban or equivalent.
The thing that kept me from 2 bikes and made to get Tenere 700 is that sometimes on a road ride I see a place that isnt road bike friendly, but i want to check out.
I usually ride alone and picking up the Africa Twin is definitely a challenge and doing it multiple times is tiring. When I'm touring, I worry a lot about dropping it with luggage, so I am very cautious about where I go and how I ride there. I found I enjoy the on-tarmac riding much more than on-gravel. In British Columbia, gravel can mean taking 50-100 km routes through mountain passes that may not be maintained. It's a thrill to go where few travel but I'm not sure it's for me. I recently bought an R1200RS for touring, so I will see if that suits me and is able to get to the campsites I want to use. I'm thinking of picking up a used CRF250 next fall for my off-road riding. Watching the pros on an Africa Twin or any other big bike is like watching professionals in any endeavour: they make it look easy (after years of practice and training!). The reality is that at my age, I'm not fit enough or skilled enough to ride like that and I never will be. That ship has sailed. But I can enjoy riding for many years to come with the right bikes.
don’t let the size and weight discourage. i started completely new to off-roading and motorcycles in general on a 890AdvR and i’m glad i stuck with it, it’s was tuff but worth it.
a little can do attitude, conditioning, and practice will get you there! parking lots, sand pits, the gym, stretching. dirt bike courses, and good friends who are patient and encouraging. the big bikes are exceptionally capable off-road, and they have rider helping technology that dual sports don’t have, you can shut it off to get a real taste and build skill but then turn it back on when your looking for some help, it has saved me a couple times when i got too frisky. many of the big bikes don’t lay as flat on the ground as the dual sports especially when they have panniers, so that should be factored in when you compare what it’s like to pick them up. a 350 pound bike laying at 5 degrees means you lift further from a lower position. and a gs with a boxer engine lays at 25 degrees soo your starting from a higher point and lifting less? ide like to compare that side by side. i bet the weight isn’t as bad as people make it out to be. big rock moto did that test i think? anyways just build up some core and leg strength and you can pick them up again and again just fine with proper form, don’t let that get in your head! the benefits of sticking with it? cruise at comfort, planted, with ease at speed to and from your offroad destination, regardless the distances. for best results ide say give the middle weight bikes a chance, ktm 890, T7, vstrom 650, tiger ect.
Got a Beta 390 this summer ok on highway and what a blast on sand wash seasonal roads
I am completely caught in the middle, on a 2022 CB500X, im just a little too big for the small stuff, like small single trail with my mates on dual sports, and a little too small for the big stuff with my mates on adv tourers and AT, GSA, etc… Nearly every week I want to sell the 500X and buy a CRF250L, but then I’ll unable for the big rides and no two up abilities, every other week I want to sell and buy an 901 but then I’ll unable for the single dirts trails!! I’m finding the 500X is working great, gets me places I shouldn’t really go, and around to the places I can easily enough, even though I think it it has zero street cred😂😂
Thanks for the videos, keep ‘em up!
I feel the same about my 690
Once again some Solid Advice! Now that I am getting older, my Tiger 900GT does have some weight and even though I just ride dirt roads, I am concerned with the bike wants a nap and I have to pick it up...I have done a few small things to reduce weight like installing a Lithium battery and removed some items that I hardly use... So thanks, you have raised some valid points! David...Adelaide...Tiger 900GT & Scrambler 900.....
Excellent advice! Thank you for the video
On a positive note.....liter+ ADV bikes are fantastic on road tourers and camping bikes. Broken asphalt, holes, dips, seams, ridges, hard packed dirt, cobblestone, cross winds, truck air wash, water crossings are no issue. Less fairings make on trip repairs and maintenance more manageable. In Australia or USA the liter+ power is necessary. FYI I can pickup my 650lbs loaded ADV with bars multiple times, if needed. I have the tool seen on YT. Do not ride off road.
personally if they cut all the fat off these ADV bikes and threw a smaller yet more powerful engine package in them these bikes would be amazing to use off and onroad, as they are now they're just cruisers styled with the adventure aesthetic.
as they are now they're useless offroad since if you can't pick a bike up multiple times without it affecting your enjoyment or need help picking it up, that bike in my mind is a failure of a ADV bike not to mention IF you drop it your going to have to pay a small fortune to repair it.
Drove a GS 1250 for years and years. Switched to Honda Africa Twin Adventure Sports L1000 DCT 3 years ago and I never want to go back. Just got back from 3 weeks through the Balkan countries - with a lot of offroad (TET app) - and I am still in love with this one!
I appreciate this video. 52 years riding, starting on dual sport aka Enduros in the 1970's, which are street legal but more based on a dirt bike platform, lighter and more nimble on trails off road, Capable for around town riding. Highway riding is difficult because they are higher and narrower, more affected by wind of passing vehicles and hard to maintain highway speeds or 70-80+--that's where a heavier road bike has an advantage and the new ADV bikes that replaced the sport touring segment are dominating the market.
I have many bikes, 5 total, three bought this year, A Triumph T120, A Suzuki DR650S (getting back to my enduro dirt bike roots on rural dirt roads is just fun-which is what it's a ll about) and A yamaha FJR1300es, now discontinued. I always was attracted to the Honda ST 110/1300 but it was discontinued along with the Kawasaki Concours, both heavier than the FJR, which is sharper and quicker. This bikes sits between my Honda Goldwing and my old CB 650 Custom, So I grabbed it.
The Yamaha Super Tenere (ST) 1200 es, also discontinued (which I want because of that) is the sister bike to the FJR in an ADV platform, it is a 2 cylinder shaft drive bike. It is a one inch higher seat height than the FJR but missing some more nicer features on the FJR but a different bike. The FJR is 640 lbs, The ST is 584 LBS very close in weight but still heavy. 6+ gallon gas tank in front of you, make the bike top heavy.
I want the Yamaha ST but I cannot justify the cost of a bike that is about the same cost as the FJR that came with saddlebags and honestly the FJR is a prettier bike. I basically would have two street bikes that essentially can do the same thing but the FJR is a little lower for my inseam at 31 " and I am 6' tall. The St would put me on the balls of my feet more than the FJR, which is not sure footed when stopped at a light in comparison to the FJR. I also have an enduro that is a blast if I want to tool around on more dirt roads so I don't think I need an ADV bike that is heavier off road, more isolated from people passing by that can potentially help me.
Not proud of this, but I had dropped the FJR in my driveway when my right leg gave out as I was slightly leaning the bike to the right to put the kickstand down on the left due t some recent health issues I di not realize. I held onto to the bike gently bringing it to the ground flat on its right side like a dead fish. I could not get a grab point on the right side to lift it walking backwards, as trained. I lifted facing forward 3x, almost got it up but not quite far enough over. I got help from a neighbor, d side panels were scratched up, had them repainted professionally like new.
I also invested in in crash bars from T-Rex racing (great company) to help the bike not lay as flat and protect the fairing panels if it falls again. I also got a riser plate to get the bars a little more upright & closer to me about an inch up and back to be more comfortable. I discovered I had also torn a 10 year old inguinal hernia repair and a right torn hamstring.
Now I have never dropped a bike in 52 years. I have a 1999 Honda Goldwing, 6 gal tank under the seat=LCG, handles great. Due to some health issues I had recently after my wife died suddenly,. My strength had been zapped from me more than I realized. I have been recovering and I have gotten back on the FJR (got back on the horse that threw me). I have done well and can handle it better now, also not filling the tank full helps with weight management, stay at about 4 gallons than 6.6.
I say all of this because people need to be aware that these adventure bikes are largely road bikes not dirt bikes as is being advertised. 80-90% of owners will never truly go off road in deep sand, rough narrow trails that are better managed by a lighter/narrower enduro/dual sport/dirt oriented motorcycle that has better ground clearance and maneuverability.
In this video and in a couple others I have watched, ADV bikes with street oriented tires (different than semi-knobby dual sport enduro tires) will handle gravel and loose dirt, hard packed dirt and fire roads very well. However, so will a Goldwing, a sport tourer and most classic road bikes; but you have to back off the throttle, managed your weight, clutch and braking so you maintain safe momentum.
Other videos as stated on RUclips indicate, if you plan on doing true off road riding, buy a lighter dual sport bike for that purpose. You will get knocked off a rough trail, hit swamp/soft ground, sugar sane and you will drop the bike or get knocked off of it. Enduros/dual sports are much easier to pickup alone. I recommend every motorcyclist, especially sport touring bikes, full dressers & ADV bikes that don't have crash bars (every bike needs them) to get a motowinch from eastbound.shop/ it is a life saver if you are alone to pickup a heavy bike in any situation.
Your second bike for general riding on roads, can be an ADV or other street bike that fits your riding comfort and style for you budget. Don't always go with the popular trend, get a bike that fits you, makes you smile inside after you sat on it, ride, or even look at. That joy is worth more than money that lasts a lifetime and will be the cost effective choice for you--after all that is the joy of motorcycling you feel inside.
Note, there is a reason that touring bikes, retro classics, some naked bikes, enduros/dual sports and ADV bikes have mid mount foot controls and upright riding positions. They allow more control over the center of the bike, allow you to move on the seat, and stand if you need too.
Forward controls lean you back and are good for around town cruising that does not require a lot of sharp turning radius due to the rake of the bike..
Sport bikes have your feet high and back as you lean very far forward, almost laying on top of the tank, built for speed, leaning into curves not turning so much. They quickly become uncomfortable and you feel every bump. Remember speed kills and these bikes are frequently driven by riders who drive beyond their capabilities because they think it's cool,when its not.
That's not just my opinion, it is years as a public safety officer in law enforcement, accident investigation, fire service and being a medic to more accidents that I can't unsee. I have also been trained in police motorcycle tactics, nothing I can't do on a motorcycle.
Ride, safe, smart and pick the bike that fits you. Be a little bit of a rebel, as we bikers tend to be. Go your own way, not the way of the crowd. You will have more fun, I promise. BTW, you can have more than one bike and in time you will. I have five now and never thought that would happen (not bragging either) It is a passion, cheaper than a sports/muscle car and I know other that have more bikes than I do, so I don't feel so bad. I hope my experience helps someone in some small way.
Live to ride, ride to live has meaning, be the safe, smart, gear up, be one with the machine, 100% alert and be the biker that inspires others to learn to ride too.
Stay Safe and Peace to everyone.
Brian
Looking through the comments here, i think its worth posting a take from the other side:
I live in a rural area and my extended family are offroad fanatics. Im 30 and have about 14 years dirt bike experience. Fell in love with big adv bikes these last few years and no one in the offroad or motorcycle world seems to really get how capable these machines are in the hands of a strong, experienced rider.
My group regularly go on multi day rides where we dont see pavement for 8 hours plus in groups with mixed levels, bikes, side by sides, and built suvs riding in convoy. On these trips where i dont want to ride hard enough to risk an injury, i always reach for the big bike and am still front of the pack.
Because there is so much negative opinion out there, not just online but also at powersports dealerships, no one seems to believe that something like a gs with 50/50 tires can keep pace with dirt bikes and utvs.
I blame this on who they market to. So many commenters here seem to be late middle aged or older with mostly street experience and bemoan the weight of these bikes. Its a real hassle if you drop it in the ditch, but if you are a strong rider its only marginally more challenging and you can be the guy who has the comfiest seat, the longest tank range, and so much luggage you can carry spare fuel, tools, food, and snacks for the intermediates on 250s and 450s.
Long story short, these machines are plenty capable, problem is they should be marketed to dirt bike people who are tired of putting their bikes in the truck rather than street riders who want to go offroad. If you want to learn dirt, get a beater non road legal bike, all the gear, and thrash it till for a couple years. I wouldnt be able to make use of a big bike unless i'd done the hours dropping a small one thousands of times.
Good point. Well said.
Good advice. I got rid of my Africa Twin for a klx300. Just ordered a few mods and some off road boots before I get back to my local trail.
Plan on getting a more road focused bike later for touring.
Maybe the new Transalp might be for you 🤔
@@jasoncee666 When the new Transalp comes to America I am going to go try one, considering the Tenere 700 since it's good for off road and in that middle weight class.
Need to get more experience with the KLX300 off road before getting anything else though.
@@Mycatz nice one and yeah that's a great bike for learning everything on👍
had a Tenere 700 I sold it and got me a drz 400 E for 1/3 of the price , so much fun im enjoying every minute in it any terrain any time whit friends or just solo ride
You are so right. I am now over 60 and although rarely ride off road, the effort required with a big adventure bike when I have done so is nowhere near offset by the extra comfort it affords me on the road. Filtering in traffic is also much harder than on something narrower. They have their place but not in my garage
At 63, I have four more reasons. A badly separated shoulder, a smashed and severely bruised hip and thigh, some cracked ribs and a badly broken foot that has wrecked my summer. These were all on different occasions with lengthy healing required for each. That being said 8 months of touring through all of Mexico on the bike was amazing and I wouldn't trade that for anything.
It depends where you are riding. In outback Australia, big ADV bikes are continent killers, eating long wide flat corrugated ‘tracks’. Perfect for carrying gear, at speed. But if it is more technical, yes, you want smaller.
Great job Solid, I think something in the 650 to 850 range would do just fine. Transalp ot the T-7 is what I'm looking at. Should be a great time building either one of them
Both those bikes are BIG adventure bikes. Solid just gave you 3 reasons not to buy one of them.
You have missed the point
Sorry, what’s the point I’ve missed?
@@Itchybite if you are looking a bike for tarmac and gravel roads, nothing. But the author of video is talking about real adventure,including hard offroad sections.
@@Itchybite you think the 750 and t7 are big adventure bikes??.
These big bikes are the equivalent of Range Rovers doing "Sloane Ranging". Expensive fashion/ lifestyle statements impractical for off road riding...but presumably their buyers already know that.
You are ABSOLUTELY RIGHT. Just think of dessert commandos riding in 450 kilos bike. Sucks right? Go for the lighter, nimble and fuel efficient adventure bikes. 400 to 850 cc., less than 250 kilos.
Current GS rider for many years. Truth is the combined weight and high center of gravity it is highly demanding a bike to go off-road with full protection it will weigh 600+ lbs. After maybe 3rd pick-up, it ceases to be enjoyable and just wish you are somewhere else. It is a great bike just don’t believe it will ride like a dirt bike.
My T7 has been perfect for what I need which is a 100-150km tarmac ride to the trails. And hitting anything short of single tracks or hard enduro for the day then ripping back the tarmac back home! Im a bigger guy so lifting up the T7 hasn’t been a problem ever even multiple times a day.
Of all of the videos I've seen with nearly this exact title, this is the only one I can truly respect as you mentioned the crazy folks like myself who like to throw the big bikes around in stuff people think you shouldn't. I have a 2017 Africa Twin and have followed 450s with the same fun they were having, but for others I definitely agree they might not want to commit to building the skills. Granted, gonna give a small shameless plug to the Africa Twin: picking it up is deceptively easy compared to others. Anyways, fantastic vid!
Thanks Jon, I have ridden with quite a few of you mad SOB’s. You have my respect 🫡 Also great as a spectator watching them tackle everything.
I totally agree with Cronicles.
I believe I have come close to the holy grail (for me and my needs). I took my carburetor 450 EXC, installed MX cams, larger carburetor and punched the cylinder out to 540cc. Larger radiators with fans, an oil cooler, trick suspension, luggage rack subframe, 22 litre fuel tank, two aluminum 1,5 litre fuel bottles, Kriega luggage system, a wind deflector, a Garmin, anti vibration mounts for the handlebar, Stegpegz, Rekluse autoclutch, taller final gearing, Conti TKC 80 - and Bobzyerauntie 👌🏁.
Again, this works as an ADV bike (for me). A bigger ADV is pointless for me, as I like to venture out on trails and mainly coz I am not a pro Dakar rider.
And a rebuild every other day.great
@@alrightdave6135 Yes Dave, your point is absolutely very valid. The motor needs more care. That said, the dictated factory maintenance intervals are based on racing use. When touring, perhaps only a fifth of your hours are deployed on grit where full engine load is needed/desired. That virtually reduces your need of maintenance by five. Besides, freshing a little half liter one pot engine, is quick and cheap. What you win, is a featherlight bike which shines in the dirt. Certainly, 4/5 of your hours will be on tarmac, where you'll not match the power of the big testosterone ADVs. your question to yourself is; who'd youze rather be? The happy boy in the mud or the comfy gent on the tarmac?
I'm a 56 year old senior. I can't lift a +1000cc ADV 22 times a day in the Sahara, neither do I desire it.
Also, a cush-drive hub saves the tranny, highly recommended
All said, I believe a big cc ADV is the best tourer you can buy, for certain. Only, be fit and young if you do single track riding. I'm immensely fortunate to own +30 bikes that I use frequently. I've been around a bit in the saddle and what I conclusively can say is: For a choice of one bike only, with a restrictive budget, it gets complicated and you must search what your soul's priorities are. I'd rather save up, have patience and buy two used different bikes, rather than one new bike "to do it all". I started with used bikes when I was young and wandered from cluelessness to half-wit. ☺️
Thank you for the good insight and for sharing your experience so many bikers out there wiil know something about big bike off-road thank you friend more power to you and god bless you 🙏
Agree with the multiple bikes for the price of new big adv approach. Got tired a long time ago of trying to do it all with one style of bike, especially after learning it wasn’t worth it to me to take big ADVs off-pavement. Currently have a maxiscooter for urban, a Himalayan for off-pavement, and the fantastic Versys 1000 for the high-speed road trips.
Sounds like a great combination
Not everyone can afford 3 bikes, 3 insurance, 3 maintenance, and don't have a way to store 3 bikes safely. There is never a single answer that can fit all necessities for every person.
Love my KTM 1190 ADV. Likely the most fun bike (street) I've ever owned and I've had many, dirt and street. It carves up the twisty tarmac so beautifully and fills me with confidence like no other bike I've had. I like to do some gravel roads but that's about the extent of off road for me on this bike. Like the video demonstrates, they are too big and heavy, for most of us, to really get into trail riding. You must decide what kind of riding you want to do. ADV bikes are a great choice if you are mostly street riding but if you want to get on a dirt or gravel road, you can. A dual sport is much better if you are mostly off road. I wouldn't want to ride one on long distance pavement at high speeds and twisties though.
I ride a 2019 KTM 1090R and not gonna lie, it kinda sucks on the highway. Quite a bit of headshake on the highway over 80mph and gets blown around like a feather by crosswinds. What’s the point of big power bikes if you can barely outrun a KLR on the highway? Thinking about selling it, getting a cheap sport tourer for commuting (FJR?), and picking up something like an EXC for weekend dual sporting.
The thing is, most stock adv bikes, talking 600cc and over, are not ready to tackle any challenge you throw at them, you need a couple of extra modifications, more importantly, adequate tires as a lot of adv bikes come out with road ready tires which obviously in this case are not the best at tackling snowy mountain off roads for instance.
Also size matters a lot like you mentioned, these bikes in general weight 190kg+, so things such as seat height are a major factor to consider, since you ARE going to be needing to paddle / push your way out/use your feet for grip & keeping your balance a lot during your off road trips.
As a skilled rider height/size should not matter on a daily comute city road, but it does matter while trying to dig yourself/balance yourself on more sinuous roads. You won't fare well being a 5'2 while riding a seat height that's 84cm to 90cm+ unless your inseam is disproportionate.
I agree 100% - but I still got the AT 1100L ;) If the smaller Transalp or the Vstrom were out at the time, I would have considered. I love my AT - it is a dream bike which I plan to keep 20+ years. I never considered taking her out on the dirt. It's mostly asphalt for me. Would dirt have come in my equation, I would have never bought it. When I first watched Ewan and Charlie on those bikes, I though "what a pair of novice riders - they chose pain..." It was a decision that added drama to the movies....
Jepp, I got a Honda CRF300 for offroad use and a Harley-Davidson 883 for the road.
This summer, I road for 14 days over 3400 km on my Harley-Davidson. I went from the south of Norway to the north of Norway.
Excellent video. Very well thought out and expressed points to consider before buying a big adventure bike.
That's very true mate. We want to embark on an adventure trip for weeks and even months but without the struggle. I want to go in an adventure ride in a comfortable, maneuverability, and safety way. Enjoying the mountain passages and that old back road ahead. Zip a rich cup of coffee by a cozy fireplace.
Exactly. One thing the big adventure bikes do have over most (if not all) other bikes is they are spacious and ergonomic and can take all the luggage even with the kitchen sink. My F750GS of last year (though many would not consider it as a big adventure bike, for me it was big and heavy enough) was VERY comfortable and I could take all the stuff I "needed" for a road trip easily. But the weight was too much of a chore to handle at low speeds and parking, and yes - picking it up was a major challenge for me. So now I have a CB300R and love the handling, though the bike is
kind of cramped. Something for something...
Surprisingly the 750GS feels more of a handful at times than the 1250 because the 1250 holds more weight down low.
@@jackmccourt6180 I heard this before. Perhaps will need to try one day... 🙂
I bought one, a KTM 790 s. Got stuck where I needed help to get it turned around and off my leg. If I was alone who knows if I'd be here now. I need to get an InReach unit. I guess they are good for easy dirt roads. My KTM 300exc is a great dirt for trials. Anyway I parked the 790 and just picked up a KTM500exc-f 2023 model. Bar risers, Zumo XT, new springs and a Seat Concept seat. Will do just fine with Giant Loop Mojave saddle bags if you are hotelling it and not camping.
I agree with you. I'm bewildered at the weight of those big ADVs. I ride an old and light-ish DR650 which I don't wanna drop because raising it taxes my muscles to a breaking point. I don't do dirt, just unpaved country roads, where it's strong enough - and enjoyable.
Such a great segment, Chronicles.
I have a 1250 GS which I really enjoy riding on the road. I like that fact that it’s big and comfy. 80% of my riding is with wifey on the bike with me.
Still like riding off-road. Just prefer to do it on a bike that is better designed for that.
Absolutely spot on. I love the Africa Twin but it is massive. I believe you need to make an informed decision based on your height,weight,skills etc. and what roads you intend to ride it on..
If go off road only y drop down can pick up by y
2 stroke 250 can fit all don't overdo
I would recommend to any beginner. Start off road with a 125 cc. You would enjoy every km.
A 125cc two stroke dirt bike was the first bike I had ever ridden. We were at some off road tracks and I was offered to ride the thing. I was just given a few instructions on how to change gears and stuff and that was it. It was pretty easy to ride and I was going through sand and stuff no problem. The light weight made controlling it so much easier.
Here in the USA, a 250cc is way better to learn on. After you gain some experience, it's s big enough to use on the road. You will get run over on a 125.
125cc two stroke is wonderful. You can also cheaply rebore it and make it around 35HP. But for 4 stroke, 250cc is minimum.
@@philippemorilhat8608 depends on age and finances. In Calif a 15 1/5 tear old can buy anything if they have the money. I started on a free Honda cb125!
I'm a beginner that wants to learn proper off road techniques. And this advice is echoed by basically every single YT channel that does offroad bike content. And it makes sense, if I want to learn how to parallel park a car, it will be a lot easier and quicker to learn that in a small car compared to a big truck. And when I want to learn how to powerslide through an entire turn on gravel, that will be so much easier to learn on a 150kg bike than a 250kg bike.
I will echo that, from experience. Having only ridden streets prior, when I got back into riding after a long break I started with a GSA. However, the next year I got a DRZ and saw the light. Of course now I wish I’d started with a true dirt bike and worked up, but that’s a different level of commitment since I don’t have (or want) a truck or trailer for one. Anyway, I still have both the DRZ and the GSA, for what it’s worth, and I enjoy each of them for their strengths. I think starting with something like a DRZ (or some other dual sport) makes a lot of sense.
I'll third that, and say it's not just for off-road techniques. After I got my open license I got a couple of larger bikes and my riding skill development essentially stopped. I was just hanging on and being taken places. Now I have a small dual sport and my on road and off road skills are both progressing again.
There's a lot you don't really expect till you do it, too. The simple experience of riding a heavy bike in the dirt is *significantly* more exhausting, physically just more work even if you're not dropping the bike. On longer days, that can detract a lot more than you expect.
@@Wintersdark Totally agree. I can tell you I’m much less “adventurous” if I’m on my GSA. Any surprise off pavement and in unknown territory can end up with me picking the behemoth up. One or two recoveries on a ride and you’re tired (or at least I am, at 61), sweaty, and worried about the next one.
The DRZ is amazingly 200lbs lighter. Still a bitch to pick up sometimes because it falls very flat, and it’s worse if it’s fallen downhill or whatever, but it’s a lot easier to drag around into a better “lay”. I’m also less likely to suddenly drop it just because I get 10 degrees off center for whatever reason. I also just don’t care as much if I drop it.
I'm 36, 6"1' and race in hard enduro.
I rode a 1200gs around Europe, a BMW 650 Rallye around the world, a Suzuki DRZ400 around Australia and now have a Honda CT90 for New Zealand that I'm riding back to the UK on.
They are pretty awesome for travel and cruising around, but aren’t ideal for off road for most people like you said. The more technical the terrain becomes the worse the idea of taking a big bike on it is. These things strength is long distance travel and riding around on pavement and gravel roads and they can be absolutely great at that. I am convinced that owning a street oriented bike of your liking and your favorite dirt bike/enduro bike is the perfect combo as well if you can pull it off. No dual sport or adventure bike can beat that combo in my opinion.
i had a KTM 950 ADV.. best bike ive ever ridden on and off road
Really nice video on a great topic. As I found almost no unpaved roads left open to the public where I live, I've progressed in the opposite direction and now ride a SuperTenere. Happily, it works for me and my needs. I started as a returning rider on a KLR650, couldn't find much open dirt in my area, and now do more exploring/touring. Start small, it's a great way to learn what works for you and allows you to build skills quickly (if you put in the time!)
Cheers all~
S10 is awesome!!
@@williammahaffy4642 I JUST rode it 300 miles around Mount Rainier today. It was incredible!
I just bought a V-Star 950a for "adventure" touring in style on a budget. Cruise in comfort all day and watch "Itchy Boots" in the evening around the campfire.
Some great points raised re the physical challenges but lets acknowledge the very real risks that this scenario invites. That doesn't always require an accident as such...at 55 with a dodgy lumbar disc I found my DR-Z400E became impractical and too tall for Enduro/hard off road as I aged and lost upper body strength. This came to a head when I had to lift it alone and re-injured myself. I sold it and went to a 250 Rally...I know, same weight on paper but worlds apart in ride experience. I have zero regrets and love the little Honda...I'm enjoying it again. Lower, lighter, easier, low key. Granted, it's no enduro weapon, but neither am I. I adjusted my riding to fit within the bikes capacities.
At least a couple manufacturers have moved in the right direction with the T7 and Aprilia 660 wet weights being halfway between a 690 and a GSA 850. Notice that neither have light dual sports to compete against either 😉
You're absolutely right. I've been through this and totaly agree. If you're not Chris Birch don't do it. If a fully packed ADV Bike falls you make a split even if you can't - results in a torn muscle in my thigh in the middle of nowhere. For onroad touring they're great, comfy, good handling, powerfull engine and good protection - miss my VStrom.
You've summed up my experience and why I went for a DR650 perfectly.
I've owned chookies, a variety of fast road bikes, and an R100GS. $$ Too heavy on dirt. I hired an R1200GS and rode around 3000 km including dirt. $$$ Brilliantly capable, heavy, long distance road bike. Waaaay too heavy on dirt. I hired a Triumph XC $$ and rode 6000km road and some easy dirt. IMO, another road bike. Too heavy on the limited dirt I rode.
The DR? $ Light enough on dirt, could be lighter, fast enough on road if you travel near limits. Does most riding well enough. Not a big comfy road tourer. When I fall off stuff doesn't break, or is cheap to replace. No adv tax. 😂
🤷♂️ Life's a compromise. A DR suits me now. Next year? I'm not getting any taller or stronger, maybe not. One day it might be a postie bike 😂
Very true. I made that mistake and bought a R1200GSA - it was the most expensive, least fun bike I had owned. And when I dropped it - luckily on my driveway, my neighbor had to help me to lift it. Now when I shop for a bike weight matters to me more than power or bling.
Petite women lift gs’s like it’s nothing. The bike is already laying almost halfway back up because of the cylinders. Learn proper technique.
@@Dirtpoorhomesteader petite women ride, drop, and lift Harley cruisers, run marathons, and do all sort of things I personally have zero interest in doing. You can drop and lift a porky BMW ‘adventure’ R (annually increasing displacement) if you so desire, I will steer well clear of it.
Some cracking advice here. As a happy owner of a 2018 ATAS, I can't emphasize enough the need for practice, training and a good level of physical fitness if you're going to take these big boys off road. Fully protect the bike because you will drop it. Several times. Bark busters are essential. And don't go out off-road alone. You may be able to lift it off a blanket in the garage but lifting it at odd angles in the rain and mud is nearly impossible. They're fantastic trail tourers but unless you're an off-road God, you're going to struggle when things get greasy and technical.
I am a Jeep Tour Guide in Colorado. I spend a lot of time helping guys pick their "big bikes" up after dumping them. The tires just spin out if you try to start off heading uphill on the loose terrain in this area..
Yes, I am a case in point. A returning rider, last bike I owned was in 1984. I wanted to get back into trail riding and bought a new Tenere 700, thought the power would somehow balance out the weight. Big mistake, the Tenere is a lot of things but it ain't no dirtbike.
Sold it 4 months later and bought a KLX 250S.
Two years on and the little Kawasaki is no worse for wear. My riding skills are where they need to be and I am back on the road with a 2022 XSR 700 Tribute. What a great bike, kind of feel like Steve McQueen......
Peace!
I started on an Africa Twin. After almost getring stuck in New Mexico quicksand and barely able to get it out in the middle of nowhere, i decided it was too much for me. I now have a WR250R and loving it.
Absolutely agree with you Solid - I had a 1000CRF and LOVED it, I really did. It was great on the tarmac, very comfy, the DCT was amazing, I miss it. But it was WAY too heavy for Cape York or sandy tracks. I haven't found a new bike yet but I know it won't be more than 500 CC :)
Look at kove 450 rally
What would be your bike for long trips, with a pillion and tons of luggage, on lunar surface-like tarmac roads?
Did a video a month ago on my dream garage👍
@@chroniclesofsolid Great video, just saw it.
I have 2 bikes:
Yamaha XTZ 150: this is my day-to-day bike, I also use it for fun on trails. Inexpensive, very light, easy maintenance, frugal on gas (35km/l).
Tiger 900 Rally: this is for my long trips, with my wife, and tons on luggage, on our terrible tarmac roads. Any other bike of this class here is way more expensive (KTM890 is 60% more, GS850 and Africa Twin is 20% more). We do not have any Aprillia or Husk. Also no new Honda Transalp or 300Rally, new Suzuki 800 or Tenere 700 available.
All bike and all distance all direction will make me meet my true feelings, sooner or later, one way and bike or another, be it 120 or 1200 miles.
Stop and give away your smile for free (maybe helping hand and more) - I think that's what it's all about in the end.
(Good tip not to rule out the Intruders! Thank you for sharing!)
All very good info.. if mainly hwy riding.. get a reg bike ….
if off roading w/o much hwy=get a lightweight dual purpose.
Yes, I have a CRF250L and recently bought a Husqvarna 701 Enduro, they are about the same weight. Wouldn't even consider anything heavier than the 701 for adventure riding. The CRF250L is actually easier to ride on single tracks and when stuff gets more technical. A lot of that has to do with the tires I run though (full enduro on CRF, 50-50 on 701). For longer trips with tarmac the 701 is better, but not by much honestly.
Ktm 500 maybe better for single track.
totaly agree see lots of people on these type of bikes and first time the get on some gravel it hits them, coming from a big off road background this year done some traveling on my MT09sp and lvoed it but wanting somthing that can do more miles now and also can handle a good bit of the dirty stuff so going for the tiger 1200 rally pro next year just doesnt feel all that big of a bike once riding even slow moving was very impressed great video
5:09 ! That’s one part of the video I do agree with !
Buy two bikes … yep !
I have a new R1250GSHP and a new CRF450RX
Both completely complement each other.
Bingo. I bought an 890 Adv R for WY BDR. AWESOME when you're doing 80 on street or gravel sections, but at 440lbs, it is a monster to pick up when you dump it. It also can't get anywhere near smaller bike handling on dirt and gravel.
Sold that, bought a 690 Enduro R and added a Rade Garage kit, and took off a bunch of weight with Ti exhaust, a lightweight battery an a couple others. Not as sweet on the road without cruise control and the 890's low vibration, but I can ride that thing almost anywhere I can ride my 500, AND I can pick it up if I'm solo and I dump it.
Also - We do the hotel thing so we don't bring camping gear, and that means we're packing 25 lbs ish. But that does mean we go out and challenge ourselves with the hard stuff.
Good reasons, that's why I love my Honda xre-300. It gives me all I need. I think I will take a long time to start needing a bigger engine
can i ask for some advice. i just sold my rebel 500 and planning to go for the transalp 750 purely on road touring. is this a good idea?
I'm eyeing off the transalp too. If only they hadn't routed the pipes a few inches above the tarmac I would have already signed up!!
Great video, and I couldn’t agree more. Having decent skills both on and off road, and the proud owner of a 23 1290R I consider my 1290 nothing more than a sport touring bike that’s dirt road compatible lol. It’s just a toy. No bags, no rear pegs, just blasting on gravel roads!!! I’m 65