It's silly for people to fight and gatekeep sims and simcades, they're all close enough to transfer skills with. The main thing is whichever you find more immersive/enjoyable for YOU.
No they're not. Basing your "skills" on most of the simcades would probably almost kill you in real life, for sure you would destroy a lot of cars if you want to actually compete and not just have fun. They can still help you with reaction times, but a realistic physics engine is the most important thing.
and there you have it, already 2 people gatekeeping. LOL. The fact of the matter is (wait, that is a Biden quote, lol) that ANY of these games teach you skills you can transfer over to the real thing. Some people are just not able to adapt. Back in the day we learned many basics in Gran Turismo 2. At the time it was considered a simulation, not a simcade (which is a wrong take imo, the GT series was always simulation and always will be, how correct it gets certain things simply means how good of a simulation it is or isn't. They never set out to make a simcade and they never made a simcade. Quality of life features like in GT7 where people spin out and become transparent are just that, quality of life to make it easier, they are not what make it a simcade. ACC which is arguably not a simcade and a hardcore racing sim has you go through other cars in pits and on rolling start.... does that make it a simcade? lol. Anyway, back on point) and as I was saying, GT2 at the time was arguably the best racing sim we could get our hands on. It taught you so many things that did indeed transfer over to the real world. At the very minimum, it taught you racing lines and the actual tracks. Now you go back to GT2, and it is horrendous compared to todays racing sims. So how then could we still adapt things we learned from it? The answer is simple. There are a lot of skills that can be transferred over depending on the game, and that is all there is to it. How much and what each experience transfers may differ, and for those that want a 1 to 1 representation I also get it, they want to build muscle memory but they still need to understand that it all comes down to tyre selections, car setups, and what each sim focuses on. The gatekeeping is real, and annoying. I mean ofcourse I wouldn't go as far as saying "you can transfer Need For Speed HP 2010 Remastered" to the real thing, because all that game teaches you is that you can go at 300kmp and touch the handbreak on a large turn and the car will wonderfully turn through the corner. lol. That is a prime way to end yourself in real life. But if you aren't that bright as to know and understand what can be transferred to real life or not then sure, stay away from simcades, and even more so arcade racers. Comes down to the personal experience of every person in the end. I would say there is a lot to take away from any of these racers, and I would go even further that it is actually a good practice to play different ones at that. This will make your more adaptable and give you an entire understanding of all the different ways of handling. Like in real life. You learn one car and know how to push it hard, then enter another car, you will need some time to adjust. Its practically each time like a different experience. From the handling, to the weight distribution to the weight overall, to power transfer to the road on each car, to even simpler and more obvious things such the clutch. I mean even the clutch is so different from car to car you need a few minutes to adjust. My car has a much softer longer (if that is the way to explain it) clutch feeling. Has a larger distance for it to go and its pressure is a little more linear. My spouses car, well her clutch (newer car, mines is from 2004 hers is from 2021) feels like it has a shorter distance to press on it, is a little more grippy and it doesn't feel as linear, has a little more of a harder kick to it at the start. Then we can go into technologies, her car being new for example when you let go of the clutch it has a lock system that doesn't allow the car to roll back when you are uphill unless you let go of the break for a while for it to register, like 3 seconds or something, making starting in first gear on uphill much easier, my car you need to be much quicker from break to acceleration and then play with the clutch much sooner as it will straight away want to roll backwards on the uphill so as to make sure you do not move back but also don't just abruptly start. Point being, there are so many differences even in real life. Gatekeepers are just immature people that need to defend their practice end of the day. Sure there are those that again come down to personal experience and can't adapt different skill sets to the real thing, but more often than not its just defending their preferred choice and I would say the less adaptable you are the less you need to think of simracing as practice to begin with. They are wrong on step one from the get go. And practicing to create muscle memory in those conditions is actually worse. Because end of the day NO sim racer no matter how good it is is actually 1 to 1. There are cars in iRacing that simply do not match their real life counterpart as much as say the first Assetto Corsa. And vise versa. Which brings us to the other lifelong argument between ACC and iRacing. Which is better for GT3? Neither and both. They use different tyre models that are based on tests on different tyre selections on different conditions to begin with. And the access of cars each team had in either case when they designed the games physics is different. So you can't say either is wrong. They both as a result kind of have a homogenous rersult. Their biggest difference being the breaks. iRacing for example has way too much break turning (when you start to break and turn the wheel slightly and use your feet more to turn the car) on every single car selection. Some of these do not feel anything like this in real life. ACC on the other hand seems like the cars it had more testing on had much more sophisticated ABS making it I would argue too good overall all around. Both are right and wrong, and there is an overlap. And that says it all. That is how much these people gatekeep. They would sit there and btch and whine over ACC vs iRacing, which are both top notch racing sims. What do you expect them to do with regards to simcades? lol. Its sad to see. Me? Personally? The more games I race on the better. And ultimately this increases your all around skills. And I don't even care to transfer my skills into the real thing. But if I did, I would be in a rude awakening realising that neither iRacing or ACC can be transferred 1 to 1 to the real thing and you will ALWAYS need to adjust. If your core understanding however is more well rounded, well you need less time to adjust and are more adaptable. Plain and simple. With said example, I enjoyed both iRacing and ACC. I simply don't play much iRacing not because it wasn't fun, it actually was I enjoyed it a lot (and that damage model is awesome, feels like you are ACTUALLY crashing when you go off track) but mostly because it has obnoxiously bad predatory practices. Its ridiculous. It is not worth its price range not by a longshot. Their practice is so bad, I had subbed for a month, I cancelled the sub of course so it doesn't just charge me every month when it sees fit, and I had 7 days left sub time. They done some patch update 7 days before my subscription ended, and the game would not update and tell me I do not have the latest patch to play, when I went to download it would say I am not allowed to upgrade due to my sub model. Talk about a bunch of stingy bstrds. That was the most abysmal practice I have ever seen. So they practically robbed me of my last week of subscription and I couldn't get the update because apparently I when I subbed I supposedly subbed for the previous content and had to be "greenlit" for a sub renewal to get new content? Talk about stingy. I could of gone around it and activated the autosub I assume, get the update, then deactivate the autosub again..... But I found a better solution. Its the little uninstall button. Works wonders. Buuuut, yeah... The gist of it is, play what you like. It doesn't matter. If you are incapable of adapting different skills to the real thing, again, you shouldn't be trying to transfer simracing to real no matter how good the racing sim you are on is, because it ALL needs adapting and the ability to transfer concepts rather than a 1 to 1 rendition. Those that say otherwise are just convincing themselves at this point. I even heard pro racers that are rabid iRacing fans defend iRacing so much and it is sooo good and their go to bla bla bla. After years they say they can't keep turning a blind eye to its shortcomings. lol. So you were not 100% honest? Right. Nice to know. Others straight up just admit iRacing is their goto choice, but it is still definitely not 1 to 1 and are more honest about it. For the rest of us that don't even care about going into real life racing, it honestly doesn't matter. If you are on real roads and are going over the speed limit to begin with you are already doing something wrong and need to be OFF the road. Those that want to go into real life racing, they will have a rude awakening when realising that no matter their choice, there will always be differences they need to adapt to and learn, and it will take time. You barely made your comment and within hours there are already 2 people gatekeeping. Says a lot mate. But I am with you.
Yep what actually matter is you learn the basics of how a real life works No matter what game you play, they won't be identical to real life. If you apply the basics of racing line you learn on mario kart, of iracing, its not the game you played that will make you good at irl. The principles of how the car will respond/ how you should react and learn from it to apply on real life is what will make difference. Ofc you will learn way more from iracing than Mario kart, but Your sim gears or sim game still a game after all Irl will be different regardless. What will help you its what you learned from playing the game and try to apply on real life. Any racing driver/ sim driver will tell you that, just search 🔎
For someone who had a thousand hours of playing a bunch of rally games (Dirt Rally, EA WRC, WRC7,10 etc) you are very lucky to have that sort of immersion in your area. We don't have much opportunity to slide around cars without having to buy a car.
I hear ya. It's about a 13 hour drive from where we live, to DirtFish. We definitely had to make a trip out of it! Super fortunate to have a place like that available on the same side of the continent though.
Can confirm, that sound never gets old. Had my Version 5 STI for 11 years now. Purchased as a road car, built into a rally car. Next rally in just under 3 weeks.
Also love that boxer sound. Every time a Subaru is passing me always wait for the pure music coming from exhaust, event the forester looking like liitle family wagon for soccer moms and going on low rpm (like normal non car people drive) gets smile on my face because this is quiet but still crazy sounding low roar :) Lancer is more powerful (and no need to discuss that) but the Impreza sounds a lot faster and meaner.
Arguably one of the biggest problems of "simcades", as the more hardcore fans call them, is that they make the IRL problems notably more difficult than the actual problems. This probably comes from a desire to balance the fact that since you're not in any real danger or that can't represent other real problems so they make you pay more attention to the issues they can replicate, but it comes at the cost of feeling natural and authentic, so I'm not surprised you found out that some elements were easier
@@TacoTechnica same goes for drifting, I find it ironically harder in games than in real life. Feeling movement in your gut, and having over 200 degree field of vision, makes night and day difference.
None of them are harder in Dirt Rally 2.0 nor in any rally simulator except maybe original Richard Burns Rally without NGP physics. It's just that persons who tried real-life driving, who are trying simracing for the first time, get the inertias and speeds wrong. There's no sense of speed at all in most proper rally simulators. The first time I tried Assetto Corsa with a stock Porsche in the Nordschleife coming from rally sims I immediately thought "how is this supposed to be realistic" after going off the road straight away as the car wouldn't steer at all. That's until I realized the speeds at which I was going, my surprise was as huge as the number in the speedometer. Of course my brain is used to narrow forest roads that look blazing fast even with a Trabant, and to low-geared cars. So the engine noise on the Porsche, the time between gear shifts, and the surroundings confused my brain into thinking I was going slow and that therefore I should have the grip to make the corner. This is what happens to every person who tried rally IRL when they try RBR/NGP or something like that. They don't realize how fast they are going, go too fast into the corner, have no grip at all as a result, and they go off. On the other hand, world-class Nikolay Gryazin has as channel playing RBR/NGP regularly and he's stated many times how many things are way simpler in RBR/NGP than in real life, and one can see in fact how aggressive real cars sometimes behave but not in RBR/NGP. And in any other rally game, even less.
This is a great video (your explanations of the sensations in game/reality are excellent), awesome that you got to experience DirtFish in real life too 😀
Ive been playing rally sims all my life such as D3 to the newest WRC game. and last year i went from ingame to irl, but not rally only rallycross. and let me tell you that the fact that game knowledge translates to irl knowledge is genuinely true. ive reached P1 almost every HEAT ive done in my good old Opel astra 1.8 sport, without me having played those rally sims i wouldnt be able to spring the car into a slide even tho its a un-tuned un-modded FWD car. its actually awesome how close they resemble eachother.
I was a co pilot of friend of mine a few years back. He just invited me for an event, I said "ok" in the same second. First few drives and my stomach was inside out even that I was on passenger with some fast street drivers and cars before. But man, this mate got Impreza gt (so no sti) but on racing tyres. The level of grip was impossible comparing to road car. Then we got something like P5, was over 30 cars, and we was in the middle of 4wd turbo class. So I just asked: -man, that was sick, really good and fast driving, compared to the other pack also. So for how long you are doing this? -Well, that was my first time on stage, got this car for about a month maybe, did about 100 kilometers on roads before today. -what the hell, no way! It must be something more that that! -I played some games before on wheel. Remember that year before, he was hyped on the first Dirt rally coming out. Then I learned how sim racing can be important to be better driver. And in the same year got my first wheel and started playing. Still don't own any fun car but simracing still gets smile on my face.
Just putting it out there. super bummed they didnt put this absolutley amazing location back into EA WRC, major miss by them. Spent so much time testing and dialing in the car setting here. Very cool hearing how it translates in IRL, and im excited to see your journey so i can cheat off someone lol Dirt Fish is also killing it with the WRC coverage these days, SICK!
I think the thing this is missing about the force feedback is that the ffb from the wheel base isn't meant to only simulate the forces at the wheel, it's meant to simulate the g-forces as well (which, as you mentioned, are quite strong). Even in something like my Prius, which has super light steering, if I take an on-ramp with enough speed I'm going to feel a lot of weight in my arms and body trying to stop me from continuing to steer. Since we don't have any g-forces in a sim, the wheel strength has to be a lot stronger to compensate for the overall lack of information. Great video btw! Awesome that you got some sponsors, and an ambitious goal!
That makes total sense to me. Good call on that. The wheel really does need to be our main source of information for how the sim car is connected to the road.
So, I have been practicing since Dirt 4 in Dirtfish from Argentina and in Dirt Rally 2.0 with the same Logitech G29 for a long time and... you say that if they invited me it is possible that I could take a real car for a spin rally? Would I even be able to time my times well enough if I could drive a really nice car like that? I need some references of real times in Dirtfish to break records from here. I'm a little impressed here and happy too!! On the one hand, for you, since being in Dirtfish is like a dream for any fan of the rally world, but this video allows me to put myself in the mindset that even an unknown Argentinian can undertake this beautiful journey. This lap you did put you on my map and the video looks pretty good and accurate regarding the quality of the editing and the content, so I want to wish you the best so that you can be the next legend in the Rally. I hope that one day I manage to break so many records that EA can call me to also be there along with many of my references in this world. I mean...somehow, I'll be called to stand alongside the best too! Haha Have a great time doing tricks Ryan! You are great!
Played RBR for years and right after drivibg licence i went to check out n evo9 on gravel. I felt quite like "i know what happens cuz its similar like in game". Spun a few times, but thats because setup of this evo didnt suit me (rear brakes quite high, but ok few laps and you adapt). In general you take easily copy basics from RBR into real, but please leave a bit room because you know... it will be different, but you will quickly recognize situations and manage them if you dont overdo
used to watch you for mtb vids and slowly fell out of it but just got back into cars and was suprised to see that your the same guy glad to see u doin well and will be supporting this cool journey :D
Dirt rally gave me the skills to make awsome real life saves in my car. Lost it a few times in the wet and snow and the reflexes to countersteer, stay on throttle and straighter the car are all thanks to Dirt Rally.
Thing I noticed is that many RL drivers had very little understanding of how car works and how physics affect their handling, probably because of all computerized assists in modern cars. This means they lack knowledge to deal with situations when computer dampening is no longer enough. I had to explain to coworker what TCS is, and why his car "loses power" on curves, despite him flooring gas. Then I had to talk him out of disabling TCS, because he did not understand why you should not floor gas when turning. Secret behind fifth-gen Mustangs being so crash-prone suddenly became obvious to me. And try to explain to anyone, why slamming brakes makes their steering worse. You'll get blank stare 90% of time.
@@kireta21My first two cars got absolutely 0 assists, even no abs. First car was only on summer tyres and it was really hard to drive it on snow (knew that so was going really slow, to know the limits of grip). And thanks to that I was intentionally learned to lift the brake when locking up, feeling the grip coming back after the wheels started to rotate after lock. Or understood understeer and oversteer in rwd and fwd. On second car got lower coilovers and springs, low profile new tyres, and that make car feel more like gokart, getting back grip on dry tarmac was quite brutal. Of course going to abs tcs esp (and heavier) car I was forced to keep the wheel steady on corners and not countersteering (tcs was much quicker than me so started going opposite direction :D) and to hit hard and keep brake pressed when need emergency stop. But these fist two cars learned me a lot about the grip issues and how important the good tire is.
I am 50 and live in Ontario, Canada. Back when I was learning to drive (and unofficially before), parents brought their kids to parking lots (in different weather conditions) to learn how the vehicle will react.
@@shawndixon4536 It's something I still do everytime I buy a different car, during either heavy rain or snow. I find a mostly empty parking lot, pray to god there's no cops watching, and go over basic weight transitions for a few minutes. Saved my ass more than once
@@kireta21 true I learned to drift, trail brake and also how easy it is to crash on sims. All translated very well to RL driving. And always drive with DCS off on my car. Assist are NOT for spirited driving.
Dirt Rally 2's physics are not realistic, but simcades can still teach realistic driving concepts without a steering wheel, which makes them a great place to learn the basics. Despite DR2's arcadey physics tweaks (ex. Car's center of mass is artificially adjusted to the front during rotation), I learned concepts like weight transfer in DR2 (on controller) that I used to get a head start when learning how to play RBR (with a g29).
Plenty of sims with realistic physics get thing wrong. E.g, INDYCAR drivers have mentioned how much you can slide the cars IRL compared to sim versions of the cars (iracing especially)
@@captainfreight5206 That depends a lot on the setup and the way you setup your hardware. unfortunately, many irl racers don’t know shit about setting up a sim and are doing things wrong. Wrong direction degrees lock, wrong fov, low fps, artificial effects added by some wheels control panels etc… Many people are saying that iRacing tire physic is shit and cars can’t slide, but man, I have literally so much videos of me sliding all around and drifting like a maniac on many cars. The problem is that people don’t know how to setup a sim, and so, they do all the manoeuvres with a delay that won’t exist irl, and so they’re blaming the game for its physic. There’s also so many videos of people catching a slide and recovering in iRacing on Indycar…
Great video! Loved it! The only aspect where the physics doesn't translate well probably, it's the tarmac. Feels terribly wrong on both Dirt Rally 2 an WRC. Never driven a rally car but had a lovely sportscar with Bilsten B8 shocks and a decent amount of torque (i think it was 430nm). Both of these games never felt good representation of reality. On the other hand AC and RBR felt pretty good to me! O
You my good Sir, just touch my soul !! Just hyped for this journey and truly happy for your experience of fulfilling your rally dream ! / thanks for sharing and the superb video-editing you provides us !! 🎉
Absolutely love this! As a sim rally fanatic with who works for a race team, but doesn't have the budget to go racing, I've always wondered how the skills transferred. Good luck dude!!!!
Damn, this video is so good and so important as well! I'm so tired of always telling people they're wrong when they say that "oh, DR 2.0 and WRC and all that is crap, it's just arcades, has nothing to do with actual driving, boohoo", because I have done some co-driving for a friend of mine who later got into these sim games and always praised it to the skies on how realistic it was... Also there's this video of I think Petter and Oliver Solberg trying out I think EA WRC and they both loved it as well! Well, now we also have it the other way around, in their case it was trying out a game after real experience, you did the opposite, you have tons of in-game experience and went to try out an actual rally car for the first time and once again confirmed how close it is... I'll just be directing people to this video from now on when they say nonsense such as "those games aren't even close to reality"... I mean you drove the actual car that's been put into the game, so there's pretty much no better comparison... Thank you so much for this video and good luck on your journey which I will definitely follow from now on (this is the first video I've seen from you by the way), you just got a new subscriber! ✌🏻
I actually have gotten better, more confident in driving after playing 5 hours (I have over 20 hours on it) of GT7 knowing the basics and how the car behaves under certain conditions. Some of the techniques I struggled when I was learning how to drive, I practiced it in GT7 and I applied it in real life. Just sharing.
Good luck for your rallying mate. I find the steering rotation is really important in getting right to get the real rally car feel. Looking forward to more videos!
The best way to test this would be to hook a sim racing wheel and pedals up to a real car, drive the real car with the exact same inputs and see if they end up in the same place after a few turns
Just stumpled upon your channel - fantastic video! Especially the message about different rally sims. Just play what you enjoy and let others do their thing. I also noticed the stall thingy in many games. Somehow, it seems to be really different to simulate and transfer low-end torque and slow speeds from the car to the surface. Looking forward to more videos from you!
Thanks for your insights on how skills from rally games translate into real life driving. I'm really inspired by your motivation and determination to make your dream come true. I wish you all the best in your journey and thanks for setting a great example for other aspiring sim racers(myself included) to race in real life❤ Thanks from another guy called Ryan, from Singapore.
driving a real car is so much easier for me than in video game. even a simple hand brake turn or drifting i often mess up in game even though drifting is so easy with real car. theres just no feel to games escpecially since every game feels different. even parking feels hard in games.
What a great concept, to go from sim rally to the real world. I like the idea of matching your planned sim rig upgrades to the rally car as best as possible. If you end up with a motion simulator it would be interesting to compare accelerometer data from the real car and see how close it actually is (aside from g-force obviously).
incredible video I love this content! please keep it up ! and maybe why not making a guide for settings in game ffb and all based on your real experience now :)
OH MY WORD JACK FROM DIRTFISH!!???? I miss doing DirtFish Live with him. Hope they bring that back because the new game WRC is (imo) way better than DR2
I think there's a lot of difference between games. The only problem I have with most of the major games right now is how the cars feel to be sort of sliding on ice. The tracks don't have like substance. They look mostly flat to me. At least in Dirt 2.0 and this new EA game, along with the recent WRC games on the market. Incredibly enough, I find the Dirt 1.0 game better, one of the greatest rally games out there. It is clunky. You can kind of feel the track there. Another problem I have with those racing games is that people mostly bash the keyboard. So, you basically can't play without getting yourself a rig. Even console controllers don't work well on such games. I think developers should look more into facilitating the playability on the keyboard and controllers. Not everybody have the room to get a wheel and things like that, and thus, they're hindered from playing. Dirt 1.0, the controls work reasonably quite well with the keyboard. All cars can be played and have fun within the game. It can be optimized further still, but they work better than in Dirt 2.0, in my opinion.
I once saw a guy from RUclips saying if you have the budget try to avoid moza r9, go for r12 at least because more force means better. Who tf uses 12Nm to drive cars? Cars have power steering unless you plan to drive cars made before 1926 you don't need that much force. Provided you want realism of course.
I see three reasons to do that. The first one may seem not that important but it's hardware preservation. If you buy a R9 instead of a R12 or even R16/R21 you'll run it closer to 100% for some cars which mean more wear and heat on the base. The second one is precision, as using more powerful bases will often give you more subtle details even if you use the base at like 30-40% force feedback. And the third one is that, yes, most cars use power steering and don't require more than like 6-8Nm but there are some cars that need more. Older cars as you said are one example and you don't have to go that far back. F1 for example didn't have power steering until the 90s. And there are still categories that don't have power steering to this day, like Indycar. According to datas from the Grand Prix of St. Petersburg, turn 3 requires a peak of 32.1 lb-ft of torque, that's 43.5 Nm, a value that literally no base on the market can output. Rental karts like the Sodi RT8 requires between like 12-17 Nm average, and other open wheels that don't have power steering are pretty common. That said to be fair, most of us sim-racers aren't built like a tank to support the 40+Nm that indycar drivers are prepared to and I think 90% of sim racers or even more would be okay with a base close to 10 Nm.
@@RedelaxYTWhen I came to CSL DD 8Nm from T300 was looking for some extra differences in force. Speed and responsiveness was noticeable immediately. Driving on road was quite more powerful but when I tried to turn wheels on gt3 car standing still that was the moment that I felt that my virtual wheels weight a lot. Then tired some VRS Tourers cars on Suzuka and going on the curbs made my whole alu rig shake like hell. And of course after some hit steering wheel was ripped from my hands (not prepared, haven't got strong grip). But maybe this VRS Peugeot 406 got something wrong with the FFB because other cars didn't shake the hell out of me in the same track situation.
I've been playing Dirt 2.0 since PS4 and just recently got into sim racing with a t300rs and I'd been messing around trying out a few different games like GT7 ,Grid Legends , and Asseto Corsa. After trying all of them Dirt 2.0 sort of felt the most "realistic" even though it's still somewhat arcade like it was the best experience out of everything for me. It may be a ps4 game but it holds up well on PS5 imo.
First time I did rally styled driving was in an old RWD single cab truck with no doors, roll cage and a 4 speed gearbox out of a V6 with bald tires as well.and drive down a narrow curvy dirt road and I drove pretty fast 4 wheel sliding with throttle and brake control and using weight transfer to get prepared for the next corner and after that experience I started playing Dirt 2.0 and drove a the RWD cars and felt pretty similar
This is like the perfect video for me :D I have always wondered how it feels for a sim rally driver to be in a real rally car! And to know that the Sims are pretty accurate is super cool. One thing I always knew and now got confirmation is the force of the steering wheel. You can even see from watching videos of rally driver that the wheel has to be light. You need shift and keep steering with one hand. I never understand the obsession with heavy nm setups that could twist your hand off... I have a moza r9 and that is way more than enough for rally Sims. I would never use it at full strength.
Thanks! I agree. For cars like these, I don't think much more than 5nm is really needed. I do understand wanting the most dynamic range possible in a wheelbase though, and more force for those who like open-wheeled cars or classic racers... those things are a workout in real life, I hear!
It's never going to be as immersive as driving a hot hatch round country lanes or if your blessed to own a rally car ,rally games and gran turismo are fun games to play for a blast now n then
Going from sim to real car, it becomes easier in real due to getting extra feel of the G forces. In sim you only rely on your eyes to notice when car is over steering or rotating.. in real You identify that a lot quicker.
As you said, in real life, the car rotate more easily, and that s what make the diff between a simcad and hardcore sim. So rbr prepares you more to irl racing as the car rotate much more and is probably more difficult to catch it…
Ya I'd love to dive into that comparison. I will say though, there's one car in DirtRally 2.0 that by far matches my real-world experiences the best, and funny enough, it's the old 1990 Subaru Legacy GT. If you have the game, give it a try and let me know what you think. There's some magic sauce going on with that one.
brah!!... the following video should not be comparing dirt 4 which is more of an "arcade" release, but please Dirt Rally 2.0 and latest WRC title, please, make it a series
I’m building up my first proper PC rig next week, so once it’s all dialled in, I definitely want to try what you guys have been working on over there. I’ve heard good things!
Games i find mostly feel like ur on ice, cars rarely feel connected to the ground, ull have an easier time in real life i think, might feel slower actually lol
Having driven by this place, it's so surreal to see it in such a well made video, good job man! I've been wanting to go there for a while but after this video I have to! Edit: Not to mention, I liked and subscribed within the first 3 minutes lol
This is phenomenal stuff, I don't think we've ever had someone chronicle their journey from the sim to actually rally while being incredibly descriptive about the differences between the game and actual rallying. WRC drivers were testing EA WRC before it was release and some of them did compliment the physics, and that made A LOT of Richard Burns Rally fans VERY, VERY angry. I think we're just at the point where a lot of simracers like what they like and haven't processed that you can have your own opinion or be a fan of multiple sims as well, so even when professional drivers express their opinion (Daniel Morad, for example), some diehard fans of even the sims that he likes but is somewhat critical of dismiss him as if he's sponsored by the competition, even when you're obligated to mention you're doing an ad when reviewing a game on RUclips. Please keep this up, really invested in your journey now!
As a long time sim racer (over 10 years) who only plays rally, and am working on my 03 wrx setting it up for rally, this video is perfect for me. Thank you! Edit: Just saw the ending and subscribed. Looked and sounded like a subi I'm excited to see your build for real rally!
when I first got my g27 I was playing dirt 3 and then dirt rally original only. A few years ago I found RBR and mostly play that now. I've played a bit of dirt rally 2 more recently and it's fun, but I was hoping for more on the campaign mode being a bit bored of repeating the same stuff on RBR.
@@biosec9361 Nice. I mainly play RBR too. I play the RallySimsFan version. I am only doing one championship this year. Last year I did two and it got to be too much. I also like to do circuit racing so I like to have time for both.
I watched the whole video and have two questions: 1. In real world I think you have the same wheel I've mounted on my G920 (bunch of mods including inverted pedals+springs)is that a momo wheel (two spikes mod0.3 alcantara) by any chance? 2. How do you feel about DD wheels being so strong FFB wise? I am quite shocked to see another fellow sim racer saying the G920 isn't too weak. If you mod it right (light-weight wheel, etc) its perfect for having a blast!
Do you compete in any of the clubs on Dirt2.0? I enjoy use it for training purposes as well. I currently race rally cross in Arizona. Would love to transition into stage rally. What’s your gamer tag?
This is awesome! I'm on the same journey down here in the states. So far i'm on track to hit my race this year in December🤞. Good look M8! I'll be following along and rootin' for ya!
Very great job man! For your next videos, it could be possible to fix a camera on the pedalbox to film your footwork and to include shots in full screen please? :)
@GTChucker86 potentially but you need to have it turned up to Max toque for that, which you don't because it will probably snap your wrists at 20Nm. 8Nm is all you need.
@@mattyb1624 true, it all comes down to how the games are programmed for that tbh, higher torque motors tend to be less stressed maintaining a certain usable torque figure like 8-9nm than a lower torque probably maxxing itself out in output so likely its a durability thing too.
Thanks! The lesson was an investment, that's for sure (we paid out of pocket). We did a private full-day lesson, but the cost can be brought down considerably by doing a half-day, or full/half-day group program.
Can I ask about the ffb. You say it is light which is fair enough, what about feel how does the car, environment feel. Is it just a light feeling, can you feel the road ect .
Codemasters did a great job on loose surface handling / physics and prety close to IRL opinion based on my rally experiences with a bug-eye Subee rally car It would interesting to turn back to this video few moönths later when you'll feel comfortable with your DD setup, will you find much closer with your DD experiences
If all what you saying is true , than you don't need that practice on the beginning. If you go straight from game to racing - bang tree and game/life over
That's one thing that felt 100% natural when switching over the real car. I had zero hesitation because I had been doing it for so long already in the sim. To me it was more about practising that action of left foot braking rather than the specific feel of the pedals.
That's likely just due to your car having a functioning brake booster. Without the booster, the pedal is *much* more firm, consistent and easier to modulate. I can't left foot brake in my normal cars either without head butting the steering wheel haha.
From the casual gaming i have done id say dirt is currently the best for the money kt/bigben/nacon wrc is more casual but also cheaper in both size and price the people who say EA wrc is good are genuenly delusional the game runs terribly on consoles is 80 gb and genuenly feels like the kt wrcs series with better graphics because its newer dirt feels the best by far i have not played older rally titles for some time but thats my take
Well a year ago have been driving Lancia Delta Integrale in the tarmac conditions and two years ago Citroen C2 on the gravel track - rented cars for driving experience. And in my opinion there's no game who can even catch a half of reality like RBR with decent mods. Dirt Rally first game was good about audio and some overall environment looks but only this while DR2.0 and new one EA WRC aren't even close to copy rally. KT WRC never was good in gravel but nice for tarmac physics. In reality Gravel rally tires have lost of grip more than in many rally games and not necessarily slide all the time when cornering what we can observe this strange phenomena in the DR2.0 or EA WRC on the tarmac which is completely unrealistic. So if eneyone is trying to go and ride a real rally car for driving experience or with similar specs then forget about the games. I'm sure many RUclipsrs who talking all nonsense about physics in the rally games they never tried a real rally experience so far.
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It's silly for people to fight and gatekeep sims and simcades, they're all close enough to transfer skills with. The main thing is whichever you find more immersive/enjoyable for YOU.
No they're not. Basing your "skills" on most of the simcades would probably almost kill you in real life, for sure you would destroy a lot of cars if you want to actually compete and not just have fun. They can still help you with reaction times, but a realistic physics engine is the most important thing.
theres a night and day difference between dirt rally and rsfrbr with ngp physics
and there you have it, already 2 people gatekeeping. LOL.
The fact of the matter is (wait, that is a Biden quote, lol) that ANY of these games teach you skills you can transfer over to the real thing. Some people are just not able to adapt. Back in the day we learned many basics in Gran Turismo 2. At the time it was considered a simulation, not a simcade (which is a wrong take imo, the GT series was always simulation and always will be, how correct it gets certain things simply means how good of a simulation it is or isn't. They never set out to make a simcade and they never made a simcade. Quality of life features like in GT7 where people spin out and become transparent are just that, quality of life to make it easier, they are not what make it a simcade. ACC which is arguably not a simcade and a hardcore racing sim has you go through other cars in pits and on rolling start.... does that make it a simcade? lol. Anyway, back on point) and as I was saying, GT2 at the time was arguably the best racing sim we could get our hands on. It taught you so many things that did indeed transfer over to the real world. At the very minimum, it taught you racing lines and the actual tracks.
Now you go back to GT2, and it is horrendous compared to todays racing sims. So how then could we still adapt things we learned from it?
The answer is simple. There are a lot of skills that can be transferred over depending on the game, and that is all there is to it. How much and what each experience transfers may differ, and for those that want a 1 to 1 representation I also get it, they want to build muscle memory but they still need to understand that it all comes down to tyre selections, car setups, and what each sim focuses on.
The gatekeeping is real, and annoying.
I mean ofcourse I wouldn't go as far as saying "you can transfer Need For Speed HP 2010 Remastered" to the real thing, because all that game teaches you is that you can go at 300kmp and touch the handbreak on a large turn and the car will wonderfully turn through the corner. lol. That is a prime way to end yourself in real life. But if you aren't that bright as to know and understand what can be transferred to real life or not then sure, stay away from simcades, and even more so arcade racers.
Comes down to the personal experience of every person in the end.
I would say there is a lot to take away from any of these racers, and I would go even further that it is actually a good practice to play different ones at that. This will make your more adaptable and give you an entire understanding of all the different ways of handling. Like in real life. You learn one car and know how to push it hard, then enter another car, you will need some time to adjust. Its practically each time like a different experience. From the handling, to the weight distribution to the weight overall, to power transfer to the road on each car, to even simpler and more obvious things such the clutch. I mean even the clutch is so different from car to car you need a few minutes to adjust. My car has a much softer longer (if that is the way to explain it) clutch feeling. Has a larger distance for it to go and its pressure is a little more linear. My spouses car, well her clutch (newer car, mines is from 2004 hers is from 2021) feels like it has a shorter distance to press on it, is a little more grippy and it doesn't feel as linear, has a little more of a harder kick to it at the start. Then we can go into technologies, her car being new for example when you let go of the clutch it has a lock system that doesn't allow the car to roll back when you are uphill unless you let go of the break for a while for it to register, like 3 seconds or something, making starting in first gear on uphill much easier, my car you need to be much quicker from break to acceleration and then play with the clutch much sooner as it will straight away want to roll backwards on the uphill so as to make sure you do not move back but also don't just abruptly start.
Point being, there are so many differences even in real life.
Gatekeepers are just immature people that need to defend their practice end of the day. Sure there are those that again come down to personal experience and can't adapt different skill sets to the real thing, but more often than not its just defending their preferred choice and I would say the less adaptable you are the less you need to think of simracing as practice to begin with.
They are wrong on step one from the get go. And practicing to create muscle memory in those conditions is actually worse. Because end of the day NO sim racer no matter how good it is is actually 1 to 1.
There are cars in iRacing that simply do not match their real life counterpart as much as say the first Assetto Corsa. And vise versa.
Which brings us to the other lifelong argument between ACC and iRacing. Which is better for GT3? Neither and both. They use different tyre models that are based on tests on different tyre selections on different conditions to begin with. And the access of cars each team had in either case when they designed the games physics is different. So you can't say either is wrong. They both as a result kind of have a homogenous rersult. Their biggest difference being the breaks. iRacing for example has way too much break turning (when you start to break and turn the wheel slightly and use your feet more to turn the car) on every single car selection. Some of these do not feel anything like this in real life. ACC on the other hand seems like the cars it had more testing on had much more sophisticated ABS making it I would argue too good overall all around. Both are right and wrong, and there is an overlap.
And that says it all. That is how much these people gatekeep. They would sit there and btch and whine over ACC vs iRacing, which are both top notch racing sims. What do you expect them to do with regards to simcades? lol. Its sad to see.
Me? Personally? The more games I race on the better. And ultimately this increases your all around skills. And I don't even care to transfer my skills into the real thing. But if I did, I would be in a rude awakening realising that neither iRacing or ACC can be transferred 1 to 1 to the real thing and you will ALWAYS need to adjust. If your core understanding however is more well rounded, well you need less time to adjust and are more adaptable. Plain and simple.
With said example, I enjoyed both iRacing and ACC. I simply don't play much iRacing not because it wasn't fun, it actually was I enjoyed it a lot (and that damage model is awesome, feels like you are ACTUALLY crashing when you go off track) but mostly because it has obnoxiously bad predatory practices. Its ridiculous. It is not worth its price range not by a longshot. Their practice is so bad, I had subbed for a month, I cancelled the sub of course so it doesn't just charge me every month when it sees fit, and I had 7 days left sub time. They done some patch update 7 days before my subscription ended, and the game would not update and tell me I do not have the latest patch to play, when I went to download it would say I am not allowed to upgrade due to my sub model. Talk about a bunch of stingy bstrds. That was the most abysmal practice I have ever seen. So they practically robbed me of my last week of subscription and I couldn't get the update because apparently I when I subbed I supposedly subbed for the previous content and had to be "greenlit" for a sub renewal to get new content? Talk about stingy. I could of gone around it and activated the autosub I assume, get the update, then deactivate the autosub again..... But I found a better solution. Its the little uninstall button. Works wonders.
Buuuut, yeah... The gist of it is, play what you like. It doesn't matter. If you are incapable of adapting different skills to the real thing, again, you shouldn't be trying to transfer simracing to real no matter how good the racing sim you are on is, because it ALL needs adapting and the ability to transfer concepts rather than a 1 to 1 rendition. Those that say otherwise are just convincing themselves at this point. I even heard pro racers that are rabid iRacing fans defend iRacing so much and it is sooo good and their go to bla bla bla. After years they say they can't keep turning a blind eye to its shortcomings. lol. So you were not 100% honest? Right. Nice to know. Others straight up just admit iRacing is their goto choice, but it is still definitely not 1 to 1 and are more honest about it.
For the rest of us that don't even care about going into real life racing, it honestly doesn't matter. If you are on real roads and are going over the speed limit to begin with you are already doing something wrong and need to be OFF the road. Those that want to go into real life racing, they will have a rude awakening when realising that no matter their choice, there will always be differences they need to adapt to and learn, and it will take time.
You barely made your comment and within hours there are already 2 people gatekeeping. Says a lot mate. But I am with you.
Yep what actually matter is you learn the basics of how a real life works
No matter what game you play, they won't be identical to real life.
If you apply the basics of racing line you learn on mario kart, of iracing, its not the game you played that will make you good at irl.
The principles of how the car will respond/ how you should react and learn from it to apply on real life is what will make difference.
Ofc you will learn way more from iracing than Mario kart, but Your sim gears or sim game still a game after all
Irl will be different regardless. What will help you its what you learned from playing the game and try to apply on real life.
Any racing driver/ sim driver will tell you that, just search 🔎
@@DCFHazardRebornChannelwow you have time to loose bro…😅
For someone who had a thousand hours of playing a bunch of rally games (Dirt Rally, EA WRC, WRC7,10 etc) you are very lucky to have that sort of immersion in your area. We don't have much opportunity to slide around cars without having to buy a car.
I hear ya. It's about a 13 hour drive from where we live, to DirtFish. We definitely had to make a trip out of it! Super fortunate to have a place like that available on the same side of the continent though.
It's also 1100 for a half day but still cool none the less.
I would do it if I had the expendable income.
Dude if they gave me car number 43 i would just break down into pieces... I don't think i could handle it. LOVING the journey my man
Can confirm, that sound never gets old. Had my Version 5 STI for 11 years now. Purchased as a road car, built into a rally car. Next rally in just under 3 weeks.
Good luck in your rally buddy.
Also love that boxer sound. Every time a Subaru is passing me always wait for the pure music coming from exhaust, event the forester looking like liitle family wagon for soccer moms and going on low rpm (like normal non car people drive) gets smile on my face because this is quiet but still crazy sounding low roar :)
Lancer is more powerful (and no need to discuss that) but the Impreza sounds a lot faster and meaner.
Arguably one of the biggest problems of "simcades", as the more hardcore fans call them, is that they make the IRL problems notably more difficult than the actual problems. This probably comes from a desire to balance the fact that since you're not in any real danger or that can't represent other real problems so they make you pay more attention to the issues they can replicate, but it comes at the cost of feeling natural and authentic, so I'm not surprised you found out that some elements were easier
Absolutely!
In DiRT RALLY 2, a lot of elements are actually quite harder.
IRL you also have so much extra input to react to compared to a sim (you feel acceleration, rotation, the tires on the ground)
@@TacoTechnica same goes for drifting, I find it ironically harder in games than in real life. Feeling movement in your gut, and having over 200 degree field of vision, makes night and day difference.
None of them are harder in Dirt Rally 2.0 nor in any rally simulator except maybe original Richard Burns Rally without NGP physics. It's just that persons who tried real-life driving, who are trying simracing for the first time, get the inertias and speeds wrong. There's no sense of speed at all in most proper rally simulators. The first time I tried Assetto Corsa with a stock Porsche in the Nordschleife coming from rally sims I immediately thought "how is this supposed to be realistic" after going off the road straight away as the car wouldn't steer at all. That's until I realized the speeds at which I was going, my surprise was as huge as the number in the speedometer. Of course my brain is used to narrow forest roads that look blazing fast even with a Trabant, and to low-geared cars. So the engine noise on the Porsche, the time between gear shifts, and the surroundings confused my brain into thinking I was going slow and that therefore I should have the grip to make the corner. This is what happens to every person who tried rally IRL when they try RBR/NGP or something like that. They don't realize how fast they are going, go too fast into the corner, have no grip at all as a result, and they go off. On the other hand, world-class Nikolay Gryazin has as channel playing RBR/NGP regularly and he's stated many times how many things are way simpler in RBR/NGP than in real life, and one can see in fact how aggressive real cars sometimes behave but not in RBR/NGP. And in any other rally game, even less.
This is a great video (your explanations of the sensations in game/reality are excellent), awesome that you got to experience DirtFish in real life too 😀
Thanks 🍻 DirtFish is quite a magical place!
The must important thing I have learn is that if someone uses the term "simcade", that person is the same as the people that uses anime pictures.
Ive been playing rally sims all my life such as D3 to the newest WRC game. and last year i went from ingame to irl, but not rally only rallycross. and let me tell you that the fact that game knowledge translates to irl knowledge is genuinely true. ive reached P1 almost every HEAT ive done in my good old Opel astra 1.8 sport, without me having played those rally sims i wouldnt be able to spring the car into a slide even tho its a un-tuned un-modded FWD car. its actually awesome how close they resemble eachother.
That’s awesome to hear! Nice work 🤘
@@RyansRoadToRally thanks dude, good luck on your journey to the rally world aswell!
I was a co pilot of friend of mine a few years back. He just invited me for an event, I said "ok" in the same second. First few drives and my stomach was inside out even that I was on passenger with some fast street drivers and cars before. But man, this mate got Impreza gt (so no sti) but on racing tyres. The level of grip was impossible comparing to road car. Then we got something like P5, was over 30 cars, and we was in the middle of 4wd turbo class.
So I just asked:
-man, that was sick, really good and fast driving, compared to the other pack also. So for how long you are doing this?
-Well, that was my first time on stage, got this car for about a month maybe, did about 100 kilometers on roads before today.
-what the hell, no way! It must be something more that that!
-I played some games before on wheel.
Remember that year before, he was hyped on the first Dirt rally coming out.
Then I learned how sim racing can be important to be better driver. And in the same year got my first wheel and started playing.
Still don't own any fun car but simracing still gets smile on my face.
@@wisniatd hell yeah bro, sounds like an awesome story! you should really try out sim racing for yourself if you havent already, its pretty fun
Just putting it out there. super bummed they didnt put this absolutley amazing location back into EA WRC, major miss by them. Spent so much time testing and dialing in the car setting here. Very cool hearing how it translates in IRL, and im excited to see your journey so i can cheat off someone lol Dirt Fish is also killing it with the WRC coverage these days, SICK!
Man this is so cool, if the car at the end is what I think it is then it's one of my favorite rally cars of all time
Lets hope it's the one!
Of course Dirt 2.0 feels like a floating basin on mud 😅
i bet it teaches you a lot but never the balls you jeed to be an actual rally hero thats what i admire the most
I think the thing this is missing about the force feedback is that the ffb from the wheel base isn't meant to only simulate the forces at the wheel, it's meant to simulate the g-forces as well (which, as you mentioned, are quite strong). Even in something like my Prius, which has super light steering, if I take an on-ramp with enough speed I'm going to feel a lot of weight in my arms and body trying to stop me from continuing to steer.
Since we don't have any g-forces in a sim, the wheel strength has to be a lot stronger to compensate for the overall lack of information.
Great video btw! Awesome that you got some sponsors, and an ambitious goal!
That makes total sense to me. Good call on that. The wheel really does need to be our main source of information for how the sim car is connected to the road.
So pumped for you, man! I love tagging along with your journey. Even learning some things along the way!
So, I have been practicing since Dirt 4 in Dirtfish from Argentina and in Dirt Rally 2.0 with the same Logitech G29 for a long time and... you say that if they invited me it is possible that I could take a real car for a spin rally? Would I even be able to time my times well enough if I could drive a really nice car like that? I need some references of real times in Dirtfish to break records from here. I'm a little impressed here and happy too!! On the one hand, for you, since being in Dirtfish is like a dream for any fan of the rally world, but this video allows me to put myself in the mindset that even an unknown Argentinian can undertake this beautiful journey.
This lap you did put you on my map and the video looks pretty good and accurate regarding the quality of the editing and the content, so I want to wish you the best so that you can be the next legend in the Rally. I hope that one day I manage to break so many records that EA can call me to also be there along with many of my references in this world. I mean...somehow, I'll be called to stand alongside the best too! Haha Have a great time doing tricks Ryan! You are great!
This second channel is underrated fr fr
Love what your setting out to do with your channel. Wish you the best of luck! Every sim racers dream!
Thanks so much!!
Played RBR for years and right after drivibg licence i went to check out n evo9 on gravel. I felt quite like "i know what happens cuz its similar like in game". Spun a few times, but thats because setup of this evo didnt suit me (rear brakes quite high, but ok few laps and you adapt). In general you take easily copy basics from RBR into real, but please leave a bit room because you know... it will be different, but you will quickly recognize situations and manage them if you dont overdo
used to watch you for mtb vids and slowly fell out of it but just got back into cars and was suprised to see that your the same guy glad to see u doin well and will be supporting this cool journey :D
Dirt rally gave me the skills to make awsome real life saves in my car. Lost it a few times in the wet and snow and the reflexes to countersteer, stay on throttle and straighter the car are all thanks to Dirt Rally.
Thing I noticed is that many RL drivers had very little understanding of how car works and how physics affect their handling, probably because of all computerized assists in modern cars. This means they lack knowledge to deal with situations when computer dampening is no longer enough.
I had to explain to coworker what TCS is, and why his car "loses power" on curves, despite him flooring gas. Then I had to talk him out of disabling TCS, because he did not understand why you should not floor gas when turning. Secret behind fifth-gen Mustangs being so crash-prone suddenly became obvious to me.
And try to explain to anyone, why slamming brakes makes their steering worse. You'll get blank stare 90% of time.
@@kireta21My first two cars got absolutely 0 assists, even no abs. First car was only on summer tyres and it was really hard to drive it on snow (knew that so was going really slow, to know the limits of grip). And thanks to that I was intentionally learned to lift the brake when locking up, feeling the grip coming back after the wheels started to rotate after lock. Or understood understeer and oversteer in rwd and fwd. On second car got lower coilovers and springs, low profile new tyres, and that make car feel more like gokart, getting back grip on dry tarmac was quite brutal.
Of course going to abs tcs esp (and heavier) car I was forced to keep the wheel steady on corners and not countersteering (tcs was much quicker than me so started going opposite direction :D) and to hit hard and keep brake pressed when need emergency stop. But these fist two cars learned me a lot about the grip issues and how important the good tire is.
I am 50 and live in Ontario, Canada. Back when I was learning to drive (and unofficially before), parents brought their kids to parking lots (in different weather conditions) to learn how the vehicle will react.
@@shawndixon4536 It's something I still do everytime I buy a different car, during either heavy rain or snow. I find a mostly empty parking lot, pray to god there's no cops watching, and go over basic weight transitions for a few minutes.
Saved my ass more than once
@@kireta21 true I learned to drift, trail brake and also how easy it is to crash on sims. All translated very well to RL driving. And always drive with DCS off on my car. Assist are NOT for spirited driving.
Dirt Rally 2's physics are not realistic, but simcades can still teach realistic driving concepts without a steering wheel, which makes them a great place to learn the basics. Despite DR2's arcadey physics tweaks (ex. Car's center of mass is artificially adjusted to the front during rotation), I learned concepts like weight transfer in DR2 (on controller) that I used to get a head start when learning how to play RBR (with a g29).
Plenty of sims with realistic physics get thing wrong. E.g, INDYCAR drivers have mentioned how much you can slide the cars IRL compared to sim versions of the cars (iracing especially)
@@captainfreight5206 That depends a lot on the setup and the way you setup your hardware. unfortunately, many irl racers don’t know shit about setting up a sim and are doing things wrong. Wrong direction degrees lock, wrong fov, low fps, artificial effects added by some wheels control panels etc… Many people are saying that iRacing tire physic is shit and cars can’t slide, but man, I have literally so much videos of me sliding all around and drifting like a maniac on many cars. The problem is that people don’t know how to setup a sim, and so, they do all the manoeuvres with a delay that won’t exist irl, and so they’re blaming the game for its physic. There’s also so many videos of people catching a slide and recovering in iRacing on Indycar…
Bro close the assists
I have been having so much fun lately with WRC. I am a longtime Dirt player and I think WRC is fantastic!
Great video! Loved it!
The only aspect where the physics doesn't translate well probably, it's the tarmac. Feels terribly wrong on both Dirt Rally 2 an WRC.
Never driven a rally car but had a lovely sportscar with Bilsten B8 shocks and a decent amount of torque (i think it was 430nm).
Both of these games never felt good representation of reality.
On the other hand AC and RBR felt pretty good to me!
O
Awesome series ! Very excited to follow along. Great content as always :)
What an amazing video mate. In 11 minutes you practically went over everything I was interested in knowing. That is called doing it right.
As a new racecar driver I’m so glad that someone else is finding sims useful.
You my good Sir, just touch my soul !! Just hyped for this journey and truly happy for your experience of fulfilling your rally dream ! / thanks for sharing and the superb video-editing you provides us !! 🎉
Absolutely love this! As a sim rally fanatic with who works for a race team, but doesn't have the budget to go racing, I've always wondered how the skills transferred.
Good luck dude!!!!
I did the same, but took my WRX to SCCA RallyCross event in OK. Got completely hooked.
just realized i recognises this guy, THE LOAM RANGER, great work, keep it up
Damn, this video is so good and so important as well! I'm so tired of always telling people they're wrong when they say that "oh, DR 2.0 and WRC and all that is crap, it's just arcades, has nothing to do with actual driving, boohoo", because I have done some co-driving for a friend of mine who later got into these sim games and always praised it to the skies on how realistic it was... Also there's this video of I think Petter and Oliver Solberg trying out I think EA WRC and they both loved it as well! Well, now we also have it the other way around, in their case it was trying out a game after real experience, you did the opposite, you have tons of in-game experience and went to try out an actual rally car for the first time and once again confirmed how close it is... I'll just be directing people to this video from now on when they say nonsense such as "those games aren't even close to reality"... I mean you drove the actual car that's been put into the game, so there's pretty much no better comparison... Thank you so much for this video and good luck on your journey which I will definitely follow from now on (this is the first video I've seen from you by the way), you just got a new subscriber! ✌🏻
I actually have gotten better, more confident in driving after playing 5 hours (I have over 20 hours on it) of GT7 knowing the basics and how the car behaves under certain conditions. Some of the techniques I struggled when I was learning how to drive, I practiced it in GT7 and I applied it in real life. Just sharing.
Good luck for your rallying mate. I find the steering rotation is really important in getting right to get the real rally car feel. Looking forward to more videos!
That's a good suggestion. Definitely seems to make a big difference.
The best way to test this would be to hook a sim racing wheel and pedals up to a real car, drive the real car with the exact same inputs and see if they end up in the same place after a few turns
Just stumpled upon your channel - fantastic video! Especially the message about different rally sims. Just play what you enjoy and let others do their thing.
I also noticed the stall thingy in many games. Somehow, it seems to be really different to simulate and transfer low-end torque and slow speeds from the car to the surface.
Looking forward to more videos from you!
Thanks for your insights on how skills from rally games translate into real life driving. I'm really inspired by your motivation and determination to make your dream come true. I wish you all the best in your journey and thanks for setting a great example for other aspiring sim racers(myself included) to race in real life❤ Thanks from another guy called Ryan, from Singapore.
Excited for you and I can’t wait to follow along!
driving a real car is so much easier for me than in video game. even a simple hand brake turn or drifting i often mess up in game even though drifting is so easy with real car. theres just no feel to games escpecially since every game feels different. even parking feels hard in games.
This is awesome! I remember you had mentioned doing this when we spoke during the Mudlark Rally. Subbed
What a great concept, to go from sim rally to the real world. I like the idea of matching your planned sim rig upgrades to the rally car as best as possible. If you end up with a motion simulator it would be interesting to compare accelerometer data from the real car and see how close it actually is (aside from g-force obviously).
That's a great idea! I'd love to do that comparison. Cheers
incredible video I love this content! please keep it up ! and maybe why not making a guide for settings in game ffb and all based on your real experience now :)
Cool Journey you're on. Maybe one day.... Subbed.
OH MY WORD JACK FROM DIRTFISH!!???? I miss doing DirtFish Live with him. Hope they bring that back because the new game WRC is (imo) way better than DR2
I think there's a lot of difference between games. The only problem I have with most of the major games right now is how the cars feel to be sort of sliding on ice. The tracks don't have like substance. They look mostly flat to me. At least in Dirt 2.0 and this new EA game, along with the recent WRC games on the market. Incredibly enough, I find the Dirt 1.0 game better, one of the greatest rally games out there. It is clunky. You can kind of feel the track there.
Another problem I have with those racing games is that people mostly bash the keyboard. So, you basically can't play without getting yourself a rig. Even console controllers don't work well on such games. I think developers should look more into facilitating the playability on the keyboard and controllers. Not everybody have the room to get a wheel and things like that, and thus, they're hindered from playing. Dirt 1.0, the controls work reasonably quite well with the keyboard. All cars can be played and have fun within the game. It can be optimized further still, but they work better than in Dirt 2.0, in my opinion.
I once saw a guy from RUclips saying if you have the budget try to avoid moza r9, go for r12 at least because more force means better. Who tf uses 12Nm to drive cars? Cars have power steering unless you plan to drive cars made before 1926 you don't need that much force. Provided you want realism of course.
I see three reasons to do that. The first one may seem not that important but it's hardware preservation. If you buy a R9 instead of a R12 or even R16/R21 you'll run it closer to 100% for some cars which mean more wear and heat on the base. The second one is precision, as using more powerful bases will often give you more subtle details even if you use the base at like 30-40% force feedback. And the third one is that, yes, most cars use power steering and don't require more than like 6-8Nm but there are some cars that need more. Older cars as you said are one example and you don't have to go that far back. F1 for example didn't have power steering until the 90s. And there are still categories that don't have power steering to this day, like Indycar. According to datas from the Grand Prix of St. Petersburg, turn 3 requires a peak of 32.1 lb-ft of torque, that's 43.5 Nm, a value that literally no base on the market can output. Rental karts like the Sodi RT8 requires between like 12-17 Nm average, and other open wheels that don't have power steering are pretty common.
That said to be fair, most of us sim-racers aren't built like a tank to support the 40+Nm that indycar drivers are prepared to and I think 90% of sim racers or even more would be okay with a base close to 10 Nm.
@@RedelaxYTWhen I came to CSL DD 8Nm from T300 was looking for some extra differences in force. Speed and responsiveness was noticeable immediately.
Driving on road was quite more powerful but when I tried to turn wheels on gt3 car standing still that was the moment that I felt that my virtual wheels weight a lot. Then tired some VRS Tourers cars on Suzuka and going on the curbs made my whole alu rig shake like hell. And of course after some hit steering wheel was ripped from my hands (not prepared, haven't got strong grip).
But maybe this VRS Peugeot 406 got something wrong with the FFB because other cars didn't shake the hell out of me in the same track situation.
Sometimes, YT recommend a jewel content like this. Subscribed! Love it!
I've been playing Dirt 2.0 since PS4 and just recently got into sim racing with a t300rs and I'd been messing around trying out a few different games like GT7 ,Grid Legends , and Asseto Corsa. After trying all of them Dirt 2.0 sort of felt the most "realistic" even though it's still somewhat arcade like it was the best experience out of everything for me. It may be a ps4 game but it holds up well on PS5 imo.
You're living the dream Ryan!
First time I did rally styled driving was in an old RWD single cab truck with no doors, roll cage and a 4 speed gearbox out of a V6 with bald tires as well.and drive down a narrow curvy dirt road and I drove pretty fast 4 wheel sliding with throttle and brake control and using weight transfer to get prepared for the next corner and after that experience I started playing Dirt 2.0 and drove a the RWD cars and felt pretty similar
This is like the perfect video for me :D I have always wondered how it feels for a sim rally driver to be in a real rally car! And to know that the Sims are pretty accurate is super cool.
One thing I always knew and now got confirmation is the force of the steering wheel. You can even see from watching videos of rally driver that the wheel has to be light. You need shift and keep steering with one hand. I never understand the obsession with heavy nm setups that could twist your hand off... I have a moza r9 and that is way more than enough for rally Sims. I would never use it at full strength.
Thanks! I agree. For cars like these, I don't think much more than 5nm is really needed. I do understand wanting the most dynamic range possible in a wheelbase though, and more force for those who like open-wheeled cars or classic racers... those things are a workout in real life, I hear!
Great video. Simrace community can be very toxic sometimes.
It's never going to be as immersive as driving a hot hatch round country lanes or if your blessed to own a rally car ,rally games and gran turismo are fun games to play for a blast now n then
Going from sim to real car, it becomes easier in real due to getting extra feel of the G forces. In sim you only rely on your eyes to notice when car is over steering or rotating.. in real You identify that a lot quicker.
Great Video! Looking forward to more!
Glad you enjoyed it!
As you said, in real life, the car rotate more easily, and that s what make the diff between a simcad and hardcore sim. So rbr prepares you more to irl racing as the car rotate much more and is probably more difficult to catch it…
Ya I'd love to dive into that comparison. I will say though, there's one car in DirtRally 2.0 that by far matches my real-world experiences the best, and funny enough, it's the old 1990 Subaru Legacy GT. If you have the game, give it a try and let me know what you think. There's some magic sauce going on with that one.
brah!!... the following video should not be comparing dirt 4 which is more of an "arcade" release, but please Dirt Rally 2.0 and latest WRC title, please, make it a series
well done mate, Really impressive for first time in a rally car
Thanks! Much appreciated.
Holy shit I just found out were I've seen you before! You're that Enduro mtb guy!
Always loved watching your Loam Ranger videos when I still rode!
Great vid, subscribed
BeamNG dev here, would love to see your opinion on Rally in the game I work on :D!
I’m building up my first proper PC rig next week, so once it’s all dialled in, I definitely want to try what you guys have been working on over there. I’ve heard good things!
I'm excited to see where Beam NG goes with rally for sure!
So the real car turns more just because of different tuning?
Games i find mostly feel like ur on ice, cars rarely feel connected to the ground, ull have an easier time in real life i think, might feel slower actually lol
Having driven by this place, it's so surreal to see it in such a well made video, good job man! I've been wanting to go there for a while but after this video I have to!
Edit: Not to mention, I liked and subscribed within the first 3 minutes lol
Great vid! I am also in Alberta, working on a car for next year as well!
OK, you've got my attention. Subbed with anticipation.
Great. Now do EA WRC :)
This is phenomenal stuff, I don't think we've ever had someone chronicle their journey from the sim to actually rally while being incredibly descriptive about the differences between the game and actual rallying. WRC drivers were testing EA WRC before it was release and some of them did compliment the physics, and that made A LOT of Richard Burns Rally fans VERY, VERY angry. I think we're just at the point where a lot of simracers like what they like and haven't processed that you can have your own opinion or be a fan of multiple sims as well, so even when professional drivers express their opinion (Daniel Morad, for example), some diehard fans of even the sims that he likes but is somewhat critical of dismiss him as if he's sponsored by the competition, even when you're obligated to mention you're doing an ad when reviewing a game on RUclips.
Please keep this up, really invested in your journey now!
Thanks! Great feedback. Plenty more to come!
As a long time sim racer (over 10 years) who only plays rally, and am working on my 03 wrx setting it up for rally, this video is perfect for me. Thank you!
Edit: Just saw the ending and subscribed. Looked and sounded like a subi I'm excited to see your build for real rally!
Which rally sim do you play?
when I first got my g27 I was playing dirt 3 and then dirt rally original only. A few years ago I found RBR and mostly play that now. I've played a bit of dirt rally 2 more recently and it's fun, but I was hoping for more on the campaign mode being a bit bored of repeating the same stuff on RBR.
@@biosec9361 Nice. I mainly play RBR too. I play the RallySimsFan version. I am only doing one championship this year. Last year I did two and it got to be too much. I also like to do circuit racing so I like to have time for both.
I think the steering angle has to do with the g29/27 etc. With profiler its standard on 900°. And rally cars have 540/720°
I watched the whole video and have two questions:
1. In real world I think you have the same wheel I've mounted on my G920 (bunch of mods including inverted pedals+springs)is that a momo wheel (two spikes mod0.3 alcantara) by any chance?
2. How do you feel about DD wheels being so strong FFB wise? I am quite shocked to see another fellow sim racer saying the G920 isn't too weak. If you mod it right (light-weight wheel, etc) its perfect for having a blast!
Games can not mess with your inner ear or provide the proper feedback of what the car is doing.
Do you compete in any of the clubs on Dirt2.0? I enjoy use it for training purposes as well. I currently race rally cross in Arizona. Would love to transition into stage rally. What’s your gamer tag?
do you clutch everytime you handbrake at lowspeed in game? i used to not do that in rbr and id stall all the time, hopefully this helps
This is awesome! I'm on the same journey down here in the states. So far i'm on track to hit my race this year in December🤞. Good look M8! I'll be following along and rootin' for ya!
Very great job man! For your next videos, it could be possible to fix a camera on the pedalbox to film your footwork and to include shots in full screen please? :)
Sounds like a good idea to me! Thanks
@@RyansRoadToRally Great, thank you very much! :D
I never understood why anyone needs more than an 8Nm wheel.
typically the more torque it can produce the more it can produce those tiny bumps
@GTChucker86 potentially but you need to have it turned up to Max toque for that, which you don't because it will probably snap your wrists at 20Nm. 8Nm is all you need.
@@mattyb1624 true, it all comes down to how the games are programmed for that tbh, higher torque motors tend to be less stressed maintaining a certain usable torque figure like 8-9nm than a lower torque probably maxxing itself out in output so likely its a durability thing too.
Found the next Jimmy Broadbent
Aren't you that mountainbiking guy or am I trippin
Great vid 👏
How much are the lessons? :))
I will surely be following you towards your jourey one of the coolest videos I've watched in a while!
Thanks! The lesson was an investment, that's for sure (we paid out of pocket). We did a private full-day lesson, but the cost can be brought down considerably by doing a half-day, or full/half-day group program.
Can I ask about the ffb. You say it is light which is fair enough, what about feel how does the car, environment feel. Is it just a light feeling, can you feel the road ect .
Is dirt rally 2 really considered arcady in the rally community? I've always thought it was considered a Sim only instead of something like simcade.
real rally cars? where is the skoda favorit?
I am surprised you never mentioned richard burns rally. What kind of a rally sim fan are you?
Really cool vid :D
if you were to rank dirt rally 2 ea wrc and rbr according to how close they are to irl how would you rank them top to bottom
In a motion rig u can get more g force than car produces😂
RBR forever❤
Codemasters did a great job on loose surface handling / physics and prety close to IRL opinion based on my rally experiences with a bug-eye Subee rally car
It would interesting to turn back to this video few moönths later when you'll feel comfortable with your DD setup, will you find much closer with your DD experiences
Agreed. Glad to hear it from someone else, to make sure I'm not just dreaming this stuff up haha. Can't wait to get rolling with the Alpha U.
I love wrc… I think I could be awesome at rally but im not rich.. so 2k for 6 hours of driving is not gona happen for me lol.. cool video
Hell ye! *Runs to kitchen and fires up the sim*
Sims has better graphics than real life.
😅
I am french, and I excuse you .
🙏THANK YOU
If all what you saying is true , than you don't need that practice on the beginning. If you go straight from game to racing - bang tree and game/life over
Loosen front sway bar to increase rotation.
That definitely works. More weight transfer, more traction.
How do you only have 2.88k followers!
It’s only my second video 🙈
Let us know about left foot braking on the logitech vs in real life.
That's one thing that felt 100% natural when switching over the real car. I had zero hesitation because I had been doing it for so long already in the sim. To me it was more about practising that action of left foot braking rather than the specific feel of the pedals.
@@RyansRoadToRally For real? If I left foot brake in my real car I'm close to doing a barrel roll.
That's likely just due to your car having a functioning brake booster. Without the booster, the pedal is *much* more firm, consistent and easier to modulate. I can't left foot brake in my normal cars either without head butting the steering wheel haha.
From the casual gaming i have done id say dirt is currently the best for the money kt/bigben/nacon wrc is more casual but also cheaper in both size and price the people who say EA wrc is good are genuenly delusional the game runs terribly on consoles is 80 gb and genuenly feels like the kt wrcs series with better graphics because its newer dirt feels the best by far i have not played older rally titles for some time but thats my take
Well a year ago have been driving Lancia Delta Integrale in the tarmac conditions and two years ago Citroen C2 on the gravel track - rented cars for driving experience. And in my opinion there's no game who can even catch a half of reality like RBR with decent mods. Dirt Rally first game was good about audio and some overall environment looks but only this while DR2.0 and new one EA WRC aren't even close to copy rally. KT WRC never was good in gravel but nice for tarmac physics. In reality Gravel rally tires have lost of grip more than in many rally games and not necessarily slide all the time when cornering what we can observe this strange phenomena in the DR2.0 or EA WRC on the tarmac which is completely unrealistic. So if eneyone is trying to go and ride a real rally car for driving experience or with similar specs then forget about the games. I'm sure many RUclipsrs who talking all nonsense about physics in the rally games they never tried a real rally experience so far.
Love this!