I think what John K. was saying this episode's commentary was that he meant for it to reflect his struggles in the animation industry (in the 1980s, when he worked for companies like Hanna-Barbera and Filmation), but in the final episode, Ren as a producer was as much a spoof of John K. himself as industry powers-that-be in general.
In that scene where Ren tears down Stimpy's storyboard, I think Ren actually IS supposed to represent John K, rather than the Nick executives. You can tell by the glasses and tie Ren's wearing. The Games staffers who previously worked at Spumco did not have a high opinion of John, and I think this is them taking a shot at his dictatorial management style. But then, maybe that just makes the episode's message more confused, since it's simultaneously taking aim at John AND the network?
Man, I cannot wait for when Nick Knacks gets to Ren & Stimpy. I’m gonna guess maybe 1.5 to 2 hours AT LEAST if John K is mentioned- and probably more if it dives deep into him.
I truly appreciate the honesty with which you approach these episodes. It would be easy to ignore what goes on behind the scenes and just talk about the episode, note a few laughs or whatever, and call it a day. Even though I grew up loving Ren and Stimpy, I appreciate knowing how difficult and/or problematic John K and even other show runners are, helps frame the reality for the other people making the shows.
That's what I love about this retrospective overall. It's a warts and all kind of retrospective. He doesn't pull punched and completely honest. Something I want to myself in the future.
@@WeezerCrowsome episodes have minor edits on the dvds but at least none of them are missing entirely. I believe it's because they only had access to the syndicated versions that aired on spike TV
I think it was seeing both An American Tail and this episode of Ren & Stimpy in particular that really kickstarted my love of animation into high gear at the tender age of 6. Make of that what you will.
The audio commentary for this episode is one of the most fascinatingly uncomfortable things ever. It's pretty much just John K being bitter about how his script was turned at his expense, and then rambling about how stagnant the whole animation world is. By the halfway point, he seems to stop paying any attention to the cartoon altogether for the sake of getting on his soapbox.
He was probably like that because the Games Animation Inc. guys turned Ren into a showcase of what John K. was like, even having a look similar to what he would look like at times, which IMO made it much better.
Honestly, I was waiting for you to get to this episode for a Sample Platter vid. And your thoughts are (for the most part) exactly how I feel about this episode. It feels muddled with both being an original Spumco story outline that was finished by the Games crew. But in a weird way (even with the cartoon as uneven as it is), I kind of prefer that it was finished by Bob Camp’s staff cause it would’ve felt like the most pettiest crap ever if it was finished by the OG Spumco team. Thankfully, I feel most R&S fans have FINALLY come to realize, most of the bad stuff that happened with this cartoon (and most of his other Animation output) are John K’s fault and the more younger kids we keep away from his blog, the better. Also, that “audio commentary” for this cartoon on the DVD is just awful. They could’ve contacted Bob Camp or Chris Ricciardi, but no. As he was poisoning his own creation with that adult reboot, they just let John K and his remaining Spumco workers ramble and meander on a cartoon they literally had no physical involvement with. Whoever gave the approval for those John K DVD commentaries past the initial Spumco run (seasons 1+2) should be trampled by stinky yaks.🙄
9 месяцев назад+15
as a kid interested in the animation industry, this has been my favorite episode of the show ever since
I always love these cartoons about cartoons making cartoons. The Kirby anime had 2 of them, and the second episode's context turns on a dime because of the localization. And of course, the Tiny Toons animation final festival where Bugs, Daffy, and Porky all go through stages of madness and pain watching Acme Loo's student films. And you have to wonder. Do animators really hate themselves? Every time they do one of these, the animation is bad on purpose. Are they commenting on themselves when they were learning the process, are they mocking up and coming animation students, or is it the writers truing to razz the animators? And somehow, I get the feeling the original outline's version of Wilbur Cobb is mocking Lou Scheimer's Filmation, a studio John K (and others) absolutely hated working under. Maybe 70's and 80's Hanna Barbera. That said, I HATE that I find Wilbur Cobb so funny. Even in terrible episodes with him in it, he's like the best part. Even stole the character sort of for a student film I did.
You raise an interesting point about Wilbur Cobb and what could've inspired the character. Just guesswork here, but maybe it was John K. venting about his work for a different company before his work for Nick, like how he worked with Hanna-Barbara on The Jetsons revival for a bit, or his Filmation work even earlier (though I don't think that company had the same "accoladed creator now really jaded and old" story as HB did). It would fall in line with what John K. originally wanted the episode to be. I personally prefer the final version of the episode over what was originally planned. Cynical for sure, but I always found it impressive that Stimpy put all this work into a short that we all know looks awful, and no one really brings it up - all that matters to Wilbur is the work that went into it. I could see a different version of this episode doubling down on "I Like Pink"'s negative tendencies and turning it into a parody of what 80s / 90s animation had become rather than the objectively terrible short we see here, and I think that would kinda be missing the point. Like a lot of these half-hour Ren & Stimpy episodes, they have a pretty good concept but the pacing never sat right with me, and I think your analysis of how this episode can be split into three different "segments" is quite telling. Still one of my favorite episodes of the show overall, and an iconic meta episode, but not my favorite example of this plot. Also, this episode has my admiration *alone* for tearing about how John K. treated the crew. No show, no matter how good or bad, should have such a turbulent production history attached to it.
Wilbur Cobb will be later became one of the show's few recurring characters alongside Mr. Horse, Haggis McHaggis, and Old Man Hunger. His entire shtick being that he's a rambling old man who once tell the story on how dinosaurs went extinct and ending with "And the kid in the top bunk DIED!".
These Nick Knacks are so great. If I had one single episode to request, it would be “Wacky Deli” from Rocko’s Modern Life. Absolutely one of my favorite episodes of any cartoon ever.
I remember liking the premise when it aired, but I was baffled by Wilbur Cobb. Watching him fall apart was funny, but the whole while I asked myself “Why? Am I missing something here?”
6:36 I think this scene WAS taking a direct jab at John K, as you can see Ren is wearing John's "signature" glasses, in fact, any time someone shows up in R&S with these type glasses it's supposed to be John. It's kinda hilarious that they took a scene originally making fun of Nick executives and changed it to make fun of John K
One of my all-time favorite Games-era episodes, and my favorite episode Bob Camp directed! Yeah, it's a drag it's not on Paramount+ due to the Raymond Scott music rights. Thank god I've got the DVD set!
i always thought this was a metaphor for how cartoons in the past and in the present are made and also how it is push to the limit. but now i learn that its also a metaphor for how John K is trying to run this show, how he is making Nickelodeon mad and how he treats his animators. talk about self reference.
Wilbur J. Cobb (clearly a play on Will McRobb) was voiced by comedy legend Jack Carter. Even though Carter had been doing guest roles around this time on shows like Tales From the Darkside and Burke's Law, I remember that I was still surprised to see such a famous name in the credits of Ren & Stimpy.
in the commentary for the episode, John is just SO ANGRY about the cartoon, and he tries to act like he has a sense of humor about himself and can take the ribbing, but he's obviously pissed off about his portrayal. It only makes the episode more delicious. For me, the real meat is Stimpy's actual cartoon I Like Pink. It's very funny and actually endearing. There's cute little bits that show Stimpy's personality and his not-so-secret love for Ren. The cartoon ALSO gets away with two no-nos in one single line: "Oh my GOD, Explodey, it's Peg-Pelvis-Pete come to kill us!" as you normally can't say "oh my god" or "kill" on Nick cartoons.
I don’t really think you understand the point of the cartoon. The cartoon itself is definitely a ribbing of the poor treatment of the artists in the industry in general. But, also the artists who worked under John K. The scene where Ren tears Stimpy’s storyboards off the wall has Ren being a caricature of what John did to his artists. The guys on the commentary also say that’s true. The scene with Wilbur is not meant to be representative of a Nickelodeon veteran, instead it’s poking at old veterans of the animation industry in general. During the late 80’s and early 90’s, John and fellow animator Bob Jaques meet several elderly animators that acted identically to Cobb, albeit far less exaggerated. Very old-school and constantly rambling, getting irritated at the smallest things about their career. Cobb mentions Walter Lantz and even says “Us Italians have to stick together” something Ralph Bakshi directly said to John when working with him. The reason the word “producer” is used in the cartoon instead of “creator” was because the original script used the term “executive” for Ren which the network stood against. John sneakily changed it to “producer” so he could say the cartoon was making fun of him (which wasn’t true). When the Games guys took over, they decided to actively make fun of John.
You know, with Ren being called an “Executive” in the original script, suddenly the gags about him making changes to the cartoon makes a lot more sense. And now I can see why Nickelodeon’s produces were not very happy with this story at first. XD
There hasn't been enough love and appreciation for animation these days. It's not just about exec producers canceling original content prematurely, but also how some of the most successful series would be run by showrunners who are cruel slavedrivers on the inside. It's not just John K, but also Justin Roiland, Peter Lord, and Chris Miller.
I guarantee you the John K version of this story took place several weeks prior to his eventual termination, where he had just pitched them a story about a topless beach party, they said no, and he followed up with a BUTTT MOHHHHMMMM. Easily the peak of the Games years (I presume because they were so focused on a specific target). It’s kind of closest to its future replacements in Rocko’s modern life and SpongeBob, in that there is still quality animation it’s just not the kind of perfectionism John k was known for and the associated half mill per episode cost
This was probably my favorite episode of Ren and Stimpy, at the time I had no idea that John K had left the studio, even less that it now almost seems like it was him they were making fun of.
Not only did I had the pleasure of this being one of the few Ren & Stimpy toons I’ve actually seen as a kid (The 90s Are All That only ran this show and Clarissa on special occasions, so when I did catch it it was always a treat), but also my introduction into the horrid yet wonderful world of the animation industry. This cartoon unknowingly made me the person I am today
4:23 Say, I think Wilbur Cobb was based on East Coast animation legend/legacy, Dave Fleischer of The Fleischer Brothers, so what do you think? #DaveFleischer #Fleischer #MaxFleischer #Fleischers #FleischerBros
Maybe it’s just me coming in with hating him for all that he did, but that excerpt from John K feels pretentious, for lack of a better term. There’s this undertone of superiority in the way he says that the crew was trying to “figure out how to do his story.”
I think working for John K is far worse than what’s depicted here. We won’t have to wait too much longer for the Ren and Stimpy Nick Knacks, hopefully we’ll get it sometime this year.
It depends on how much of it was his original script. The storyboard thing seems like it could have been written by a disgruntled employee or John himself having a rare moment of self awareness. The REAL John K commentary episode is the Reverend Jack Cheese one. One he had no hand in and the former disgruntled employees really laid into him.
Actually.... Warner only has rights to the Raymond Scott libary ourside the US, as a different company owns the rights in the US (much like the early Disney songs).
I didn't know this was a real episode. I never saw it on TV, but I did hear the sample about a producer's job. Nick used to run a little informational spot about how cartoons were made and they used a slightly shorter version of that clip in it. I thought they'd just had Billy West record the line for those segments!
I wish we could get an all new set of The Ren & Stimpy Show on physical media. One that restores all of the cuts that I think were made for the Spike TV broadcast. I want my Bloody Head Fairy, damnit!
I always thought Wilber Cobb was a stab at Disney and the outside old guard of animation that still wanted fluffy sing song stuff and here were our new Xtream nick toons puking on him or whatever. Cast my vote for a compare contrast with Wacky Deli 🧀🌭🍖
This is why I want my creations to be more independent. Distributed by other companies it is as if you sold your soul to the devil. As you point out, a lot of them are canceled prematurely, the conflicts are terribly rushed, the characters are underdeveloped, and they always end up with unexplained plot holes. A lot of people blamed the producers and the executives for those blunders. But in reality, there's no one to blame but the creators themselves. Like John K., most of them turned out to be just as disgusting creeps as he is in the case of Chris Savino and Skyler Page. Others turned out to be crooks like Butch Hartman. And even they are mentally unstable like Rebecca Sugar, Daron Nefcy, and Justin Roiland.
I really love your reviews and I appreciate that you tackled this superb episode, but I do think that you omitted a few key elements of this episode. And I should mention that I base these observations upon comments made to me by someone who worked on R&S during the transitional period after Jon K was rightfully fired. First, while this episode may have sprung from a seed of an idea penned by Jon K, the episode was substantially altered by the later writers who took K’s inchoate ideas and ran with them. While K may have wanted to skewer old, crusty fixtures of the animation industry, once in the hands of the April March and others, this narrative took on a life as commentary upon the overwhelmingly toxic environment that Jon K created. Jon K, who had originally voiced Ren, is now embodied in the draconian Ren tormenting Stimpy with revisions, harsh criticism, and intimidation while luxuriating and taking credit for others’ work. (From what I have heard, K’s office meltdowns, threats (even of violence), and propensity to smash lamps and small pieces of pottery as an intimidation tactic to his underlings were an open secret). Second, Wilbur Cobb is in fact identified in the episode itself as a (quite possibly ageist) parody of Walter Lantz, the creator of Woody Woodpecker. While Cobb’s behaviors also appear to be tapping into (possibly exaggerated) accounts of Walt Disney’s later years, much of Cobb’s ramblings are a reference to Lantz’s stories he would tell to children in the 1980s. Reportedly, Lantz was an altruistic individual, and one of his charitable activities during his retirement years was to visit sick children in hospitals. However, he typically would tell these children long-winded, digressive, and, at times, confusing stories about the old days of the animation industry that often just baffled those listening. Hence, Cobb’s odd ramblings. Third, the famous final joke of the episode - the reveal that Ren and Stimy are visiting Cobb in his prison cell rather than an office - is also commentary upon the toxic (and, at times, downright illegal) behaviors of several powerful people in the media industry more generally. I am surprised that you did not make any mention of this famous image considering that it is not unreasonable to think that this final joke was meant as a direct insult to K, whose incredibly inappropriate and predatory behaviors were not unknown in the studio. Ultimately, according to my source, this episode was meant as a much-deserved insult to Jon K after he was swept out the door. Ever since I caught this episode’s first airing on SNICK in January, 1994, it has always been one of my favorite pieces of television media. It taught me that just because you greatly admire an artist’s work, you should not assume that the person is an honorable individual - a lesson that served me well in adulthood. All in all, you have produced absolutely excellent work with your channel!
wow yeah I can see why the copyright cops tried to stop this one! anyway yeah I could see how it's a commentary on the animation industry, though I don't recall what I even thought of it back then but you're probably right, haha.
well Ren is right and wrong. yes cartoons are puppets and that they could be manipulated like strings. and no cartoons are real in fact they are what they are: cartoons. but for the former it could work with the right computer animation technique
I think what John K. was saying this episode's commentary was that he meant for it to reflect his struggles in the animation industry (in the 1980s, when he worked for companies like Hanna-Barbera and Filmation), but in the final episode, Ren as a producer was as much a spoof of John K. himself as industry powers-that-be in general.
In that scene where Ren tears down Stimpy's storyboard, I think Ren actually IS supposed to represent John K, rather than the Nick executives. You can tell by the glasses and tie Ren's wearing. The Games staffers who previously worked at Spumco did not have a high opinion of John, and I think this is them taking a shot at his dictatorial management style. But then, maybe that just makes the episode's message more confused, since it's simultaneously taking aim at John AND the network?
Yup, the version we got was changed to show just how awful John K. was to work with.
This is unironically my favorite episode of the show, the one clowning on John K
Pretty fitting, I think. I’m happy to see more of it.
I don’t know if it’s healthy to animate John getting beaten to death with an oar, though.
Man, I cannot wait for when Nick Knacks gets to Ren & Stimpy.
I’m gonna guess maybe 1.5 to 2 hours AT LEAST if John K is mentioned- and probably more if it dives deep into him.
I truly appreciate the honesty with which you approach these episodes. It would be easy to ignore what goes on behind the scenes and just talk about the episode, note a few laughs or whatever, and call it a day. Even though I grew up loving Ren and Stimpy, I appreciate knowing how difficult and/or problematic John K and even other show runners are, helps frame the reality for the other people making the shows.
This makes me very eager to get to the episode about this show because it's going to be a DOOZY
That's what I love about this retrospective overall. It's a warts and all kind of retrospective. He doesn't pull punched and completely honest. Something I want to myself in the future.
Raymond Scott’s music being the reason why this and other episodes aren’t on Paramount+ is WHY you buy the DVDs. Always physical!
But even then the dvds are cut to ribbons
@@WeezerCrowsome episodes have minor edits on the dvds but at least none of them are missing entirely. I believe it's because they only had access to the syndicated versions that aired on spike TV
“Wilbur Cobb” is very clearly a parody of Will McRobb.
I think it was seeing both An American Tail and this episode of Ren & Stimpy in particular that really kickstarted my love of animation into high gear at the tender age of 6. Make of that what you will.
The audio commentary for this episode is one of the most fascinatingly uncomfortable things ever. It's pretty much just John K being bitter about how his script was turned at his expense, and then rambling about how stagnant the whole animation world is. By the halfway point, he seems to stop paying any attention to the cartoon altogether for the sake of getting on his soapbox.
He was probably like that because the Games Animation Inc. guys turned Ren into a showcase of what John K. was like, even having a look similar to what he would look like at times, which IMO made it much better.
Honestly, I was waiting for you to get to this episode for a Sample Platter vid. And your thoughts are (for the most part) exactly how I feel about this episode. It feels muddled with both being an original Spumco story outline that was finished by the Games crew. But in a weird way (even with the cartoon as uneven as it is), I kind of prefer that it was finished by Bob Camp’s staff cause it would’ve felt like the most pettiest crap ever if it was finished by the OG Spumco team.
Thankfully, I feel most R&S fans have FINALLY come to realize, most of the bad stuff that happened with this cartoon (and most of his other Animation output) are John K’s fault and the more younger kids we keep away from his blog, the better.
Also, that “audio commentary” for this cartoon on the DVD is just awful. They could’ve contacted Bob Camp or Chris Ricciardi, but no. As he was poisoning his own creation with that adult reboot, they just let John K and his remaining Spumco workers ramble and meander on a cartoon they literally had no physical involvement with. Whoever gave the approval for those John K DVD commentaries past the initial Spumco run (seasons 1+2) should be trampled by stinky yaks.🙄
as a kid interested in the animation industry, this has been my favorite episode of the show ever since
I always love these cartoons about cartoons making cartoons. The Kirby anime had 2 of them, and the second episode's context turns on a dime because of the localization. And of course, the Tiny Toons animation final festival where Bugs, Daffy, and Porky all go through stages of madness and pain watching Acme Loo's student films. And you have to wonder. Do animators really hate themselves? Every time they do one of these, the animation is bad on purpose. Are they commenting on themselves when they were learning the process, are they mocking up and coming animation students, or is it the writers truing to razz the animators? And somehow, I get the feeling the original outline's version of Wilbur Cobb is mocking Lou Scheimer's Filmation, a studio John K (and others) absolutely hated working under. Maybe 70's and 80's Hanna Barbera.
That said, I HATE that I find Wilbur Cobb so funny. Even in terrible episodes with him in it, he's like the best part. Even stole the character sort of for a student film I did.
You raise an interesting point about Wilbur Cobb and what could've inspired the character. Just guesswork here, but maybe it was John K. venting about his work for a different company before his work for Nick, like how he worked with Hanna-Barbara on The Jetsons revival for a bit, or his Filmation work even earlier (though I don't think that company had the same "accoladed creator now really jaded and old" story as HB did). It would fall in line with what John K. originally wanted the episode to be.
I personally prefer the final version of the episode over what was originally planned. Cynical for sure, but I always found it impressive that Stimpy put all this work into a short that we all know looks awful, and no one really brings it up - all that matters to Wilbur is the work that went into it. I could see a different version of this episode doubling down on "I Like Pink"'s negative tendencies and turning it into a parody of what 80s / 90s animation had become rather than the objectively terrible short we see here, and I think that would kinda be missing the point. Like a lot of these half-hour Ren & Stimpy episodes, they have a pretty good concept but the pacing never sat right with me, and I think your analysis of how this episode can be split into three different "segments" is quite telling. Still one of my favorite episodes of the show overall, and an iconic meta episode, but not my favorite example of this plot.
Also, this episode has my admiration *alone* for tearing about how John K. treated the crew. No show, no matter how good or bad, should have such a turbulent production history attached to it.
It just hit me, the name "Wilbur Cobb" is almost certainly a goof on Will McRobb.
This is one of the best episodes of TV ever, not only uproariously funny but also a cutting satire of the animation industry
The cartoon's finished, Ren.
I wonder if Wilbur Cobb was inspired by Paul Terry
Probably
That Cy Schneider clip. Oh how ive missed you
We all do.
Wilbur Cobb will be later became one of the show's few recurring characters alongside Mr. Horse, Haggis McHaggis, and Old Man Hunger. His entire shtick being that he's a rambling old man who once tell the story on how dinosaurs went extinct and ending with "And the kid in the top bunk DIED!".
I loved this episode when I was a young teen. My favorite line is when Stimpy say “ lots of people make cartoons that can’t draw”
These Nick Knacks are so great. If I had one single episode to request, it would be “Wacky Deli” from Rocko’s Modern Life. Absolutely one of my favorite episodes of any cartoon ever.
Already on the list
The less said of John “Should Be Behind Bars” Kricfalusi,The better! 😨😱
i dunno people talking about the shit he did seems very worthwhile, i was kind of surprised this didn't touch on the whole uh pedophilia angle
@@Dogman2605 yeah but like, it's also not good to hush them up, especially when someone is as brazen about it as john k
@@thomasstone3480 at least his over perfection did paid off
I remember liking the premise when it aired, but I was baffled by Wilbur Cobb. Watching him fall apart was funny, but the whole while I asked myself “Why? Am I missing something here?”
6:36 I think this scene WAS taking a direct jab at John K, as you can see Ren is wearing John's "signature" glasses, in fact, any time someone shows up in R&S with these type glasses it's supposed to be John. It's kinda hilarious that they took a scene originally making fun of Nick executives and changed it to make fun of John K
One of my all-time favorite Games-era episodes, and my favorite episode Bob Camp directed!
Yeah, it's a drag it's not on Paramount+ due to the Raymond Scott music rights. Thank god I've got the DVD set!
i always thought this was a metaphor for how cartoons in the past and in the present are made and also how it is push to the limit. but now i learn that its also a metaphor for how John K is trying to run this show, how he is making Nickelodeon mad and how he treats his animators. talk about self reference.
Wilbur J. Cobb (clearly a play on Will McRobb) was voiced by comedy legend Jack Carter. Even though Carter had been doing guest roles around this time on shows like Tales From the Darkside and Burke's Law, I remember that I was still surprised to see such a famous name in the credits of Ren & Stimpy.
Your full-length Ren and Stimpy episode is going to be epic. Can't wait.
Cobb seems mainly inspired by Bob Clampett, which makes sense as John K had previously worked on a reboot of Beany and Ceacil
in the commentary for the episode, John is just SO ANGRY about the cartoon, and he tries to act like he has a sense of humor about himself and can take the ribbing, but he's obviously pissed off about his portrayal. It only makes the episode more delicious. For me, the real meat is Stimpy's actual cartoon I Like Pink. It's very funny and actually endearing. There's cute little bits that show Stimpy's personality and his not-so-secret love for Ren. The cartoon ALSO gets away with two no-nos in one single line: "Oh my GOD, Explodey, it's Peg-Pelvis-Pete come to kill us!" as you normally can't say "oh my god" or "kill" on Nick cartoons.
Maybe Pelvis too? Is that considered too vulgar?
Honestly, the day you finally take on John K is going to be like Godzilla: Final Wars with how the Big G decimated 98 Zilla..
Wilbur Cobb might be based on John Ks hero Bob clampett, who was known to wear a bowl cut toupee
I don’t really think you understand the point of the cartoon. The cartoon itself is definitely a ribbing of the poor treatment of the artists in the industry in general. But, also the artists who worked under John K. The scene where Ren tears Stimpy’s storyboards off the wall has Ren being a caricature of what John did to his artists. The guys on the commentary also say that’s true. The scene with Wilbur is not meant to be representative of a Nickelodeon veteran, instead it’s poking at old veterans of the animation industry in general. During the late 80’s and early 90’s, John and fellow animator Bob Jaques meet several elderly animators that acted identically to Cobb, albeit far less exaggerated. Very old-school and constantly rambling, getting irritated at the smallest things about their career. Cobb mentions Walter Lantz and even says “Us Italians have to stick together” something Ralph Bakshi directly said to John when working with him. The reason the word “producer” is used in the cartoon instead of “creator” was because the original script used the term “executive” for Ren which the network stood against. John sneakily changed it to “producer” so he could say the cartoon was making fun of him (which wasn’t true). When the Games guys took over, they decided to actively make fun of John.
Thank you, this Is EXACTLY what this was about.
You know, with Ren being called an “Executive” in the original script, suddenly the gags about him making changes to the cartoon makes a lot more sense. And now I can see why Nickelodeon’s produces were not very happy with this story at first. XD
There hasn't been enough love and appreciation for animation these days. It's not just about exec producers canceling original content prematurely, but also how some of the most successful series would be run by showrunners who are cruel slavedrivers on the inside.
It's not just John K, but also Justin Roiland, Peter Lord, and Chris Miller.
This and Stimpy's Fan Club are a level of perfection rarely achieved.
I guarantee you the John K version of this story took place several weeks prior to his eventual termination, where he had just pitched them a story about a topless beach party, they said no, and he followed up with a BUTTT MOHHHHMMMM.
Easily the peak of the Games years (I presume because they were so focused on a specific target). It’s kind of closest to its future replacements in Rocko’s modern life and SpongeBob, in that there is still quality animation it’s just not the kind of perfectionism John k was known for and the associated half mill per episode cost
This was probably my favorite episode of Ren and Stimpy, at the time I had no idea that John K had left the studio, even less that it now almost seems like it was him they were making fun of.
Not only did I had the pleasure of this being one of the few Ren & Stimpy toons I’ve actually seen as a kid (The 90s Are All That only ran this show and Clarissa on special occasions, so when I did catch it it was always a treat), but also my introduction into the horrid yet wonderful world of the animation industry. This cartoon unknowingly made me the person I am today
Elinor Blake wote a previous episode of Ren of Stimpy, Stimpy's Fan Club, which is considered one of the best Ren & Stimpy episodes.
ngl this is the kind of art where the public perception is a lot more interesting than the original intent
4:23 Say, I think Wilbur Cobb was based on East Coast animation legend/legacy, Dave Fleischer of The Fleischer Brothers, so what do you think? #DaveFleischer #Fleischer #MaxFleischer #Fleischers #FleischerBros
Maybe it’s just me coming in with hating him for all that he did, but that excerpt from John K feels pretentious, for lack of a better term. There’s this undertone of superiority in the way he says that the crew was trying to “figure out how to do his story.”
I think working for John K is far worse than what’s depicted here. We won’t have to wait too much longer for the Ren and Stimpy Nick Knacks, hopefully we’ll get it sometime this year.
It depends on how much of it was his original script. The storyboard thing seems like it could have been written by a disgruntled employee or John himself having a rare moment of self awareness. The REAL John K commentary episode is the Reverend Jack Cheese one. One he had no hand in and the former disgruntled employees really laid into him.
Actually.... Warner only has rights to the Raymond Scott libary ourside the US, as a different company owns the rights in the US (much like the early Disney songs).
I never saw this series, but this episode resembles Rocko's Wacky Deli enough that Im morbidly curious about it...
Im really looking forward to you taking a look at the show as a whole here
I didn't know this was a real episode. I never saw it on TV, but I did hear the sample about a producer's job. Nick used to run a little informational spot about how cartoons were made and they used a slightly shorter version of that clip in it. I thought they'd just had Billy West record the line for those segments!
I watched lots of Ren & Stimpy on Nickelodeon when I was 6. So much flew over my head. It's a much better show for teenagers and up.
I wish we could get an all new set of The Ren & Stimpy Show on physical media. One that restores all of the cuts that I think were made for the Spike TV broadcast. I want my Bloody Head Fairy, damnit!
3:21 if Nickelodeon ends up collaborating with Epic Games i better see this in the Fortnite lobbies
I always thought Wilber Cobb was a stab at Disney and the outside old guard of animation that still wanted fluffy sing song stuff and here were our new Xtream nick toons puking on him or whatever. Cast my vote for a compare contrast with Wacky Deli 🧀🌭🍖
I always thought it was about challenging the "old guard" that had been in the business since the Golden Age.
New episode!
This is why I want my creations to be more independent. Distributed by other companies it is as if you sold your soul to the devil. As you point out, a lot of them are canceled prematurely, the conflicts are terribly rushed, the characters are underdeveloped, and they always end up with unexplained plot holes. A lot of people blamed the producers and the executives for those blunders. But in reality, there's no one to blame but the creators themselves. Like John K., most of them turned out to be just as disgusting creeps as he is in the case of Chris Savino and Skyler Page. Others turned out to be crooks like Butch Hartman. And even they are mentally unstable like Rebecca Sugar, Daron Nefcy, and Justin Roiland.
I really love your reviews and I appreciate that you tackled this superb episode, but I do think that you omitted a few key elements of this episode. And I should mention that I base these observations upon comments made to me by someone who worked on R&S during the transitional period after Jon K was rightfully fired.
First, while this episode may have sprung from a seed of an idea penned by Jon K, the episode was substantially altered by the later writers who took K’s inchoate ideas and ran with them. While K may have wanted to skewer old, crusty fixtures of the animation industry, once in the hands of the April March and others, this narrative took on a life as commentary upon the overwhelmingly toxic environment that Jon K created. Jon K, who had originally voiced Ren, is now embodied in the draconian Ren tormenting Stimpy with revisions, harsh criticism, and intimidation while luxuriating and taking credit for others’ work. (From what I have heard, K’s office meltdowns, threats (even of violence), and propensity to smash lamps and small pieces of pottery as an intimidation tactic to his underlings were an open secret).
Second, Wilbur Cobb is in fact identified in the episode itself as a (quite possibly ageist) parody of Walter Lantz, the creator of Woody Woodpecker. While Cobb’s behaviors also appear to be tapping into (possibly exaggerated) accounts of Walt Disney’s later years, much of Cobb’s ramblings are a reference to Lantz’s stories he would tell to children in the 1980s. Reportedly, Lantz was an altruistic individual, and one of his charitable activities during his retirement years was to visit sick children in hospitals. However, he typically would tell these children long-winded, digressive, and, at times, confusing stories about the old days of the animation industry that often just baffled those listening. Hence, Cobb’s odd ramblings.
Third, the famous final joke of the episode - the reveal that Ren and Stimy are visiting Cobb in his prison cell rather than an office - is also commentary upon the toxic (and, at times, downright illegal) behaviors of several powerful people in the media industry more generally. I am surprised that you did not make any mention of this famous image considering that it is not unreasonable to think that this final joke was meant as a direct insult to K, whose incredibly inappropriate and predatory behaviors were not unknown in the studio.
Ultimately, according to my source, this episode was meant as a much-deserved insult to Jon K after he was swept out the door.
Ever since I caught this episode’s first airing on SNICK in January, 1994, it has always been one of my favorite pieces of television media. It taught me that just because you greatly admire an artist’s work, you should not assume that the person is an honorable individual - a lesson that served me well in adulthood.
All in all, you have produced absolutely excellent work with your channel!
I was thought this episode was made to make fun of John K
wow yeah I can see why the copyright cops tried to stop this one! anyway yeah I could see how it's a commentary on the animation industry, though I don't recall what I even thought of it back then but you're probably right, haha.
I appreciate the Palestine
3:51 i feel this in my marrow
Needs more views.
As excited as I am to finally get to Nicktoons...NOT looking forward to this show.
well Ren is right and wrong. yes cartoons are puppets and that they could be manipulated like strings. and no cartoons are real in fact they are what they are: cartoons. but for the former it could work with the right computer animation technique