WAS MARTIN MCGUINNESS A "TOUT"??| Ex-IRA man REACTS| Author of "Stakeknife's Dirty War"
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- Опубликовано: 8 сен 2024
- Richard O' Rawe's new book "Stakeknife's Dirty War: The Inside Story of Scappaticci, the IRA's Nutting Squad and the British Spooks Who Ran the War" offers the most comprehensive and in-depth look into the life and crimes of Freddie Scappaticci, better known as agent "Stakenife".
In this clip from the up-coming full episode Ricky discusses the rumors and speculation surrounding the late Martin Mc Guinness (former IRA army council and Sinn Fein politician) as to whether he was, at any stage, an informant for the British.
FULL EPISODE THIS WEEK
BUY RICHARD'S BOOK: amzn.to/46lOmoG
It would be simpler just to list the handful of IRA members who *weren't* British informers.
I honestly think there's a bigger stake knife out there and just not being named yet I also think stakeknife is being used as a scapegoat
Hrs definitely a scapegoat
steaknife? Was our Oswold,Putz.
Yeah there is adams
O he was so was Gerry. They never called him code name the fisherman
😂😂😂😂oh stop
Gerry definitely
There were always 'back channels' open between the British Government and the IRA. McGuinness from early on was a senior player. It is often said if he was lifted and let go 6 were then lifted that night. Of course though that could be a ploy of British Intelligence who liked to Stoke paranoia. I think it is fair to say that the leaderships of such organisations are often 'untouchable'. A lot of the time trust can he built via back channels and it is increasingly important to keep that trusted leader in place.
I think with McGuinness this was the idea. He was known not to be a wild man but he could for the most part keep the wild men in check. He was someone trusted via back channel contacts with the British. He was someone seen to be a man who was a central plank that if you removed could result in more chaos ensuing.
It was the secret service decision not to lift them. Having back channels to discuss prospect of peace or negotiation is a good thing isn’t it? And hasn’t time proved it?
What did McGuinness inform abt? All hearsay and speculation.
💯 agree. My comment below was to another comment
Those who pushed the peace deal through for Sinn Fein were more than likely FRU agents . It was their job in sf to push peace . Follow the doves and you have your agents .
@@thetruth7386 There has to be communication between two Sides in any conflict.
Mary Lou McDonald thinks she is leader of SF. What a joke the party is led by MI6
She is an advocate for baby killing!
SF are now just a party the establishment are now using for their obsessive immigration into Europe agenda
They are finished over gone bastards open boarder’s they r not the same party my family and I supported from boy to man, they r run out of Dublin and counties all over south Traitors.☘️♟
@@patkearney9320 lol was being sarcastic there.....women used to say about their partners in the maze he's away on holiday lol everyone used to say taking the piss was a holiday...lol....I'm in late 40s now and visited family members from late 80s to late 90s.....I was the age too to be involved but parents sent me off to university and glad I wasn't.....not in the sense of being not proud but to secure a future
@@patkearney9320 cheers mo chara....I'm a fella lol my username is a character from the movie the big lebowski haha 😂 if you haven't seen it its one to check out...pure belter show from the 90s lol
Well known tactic of British intelligence to make a organisation think they've been thoroughly compromised. To sow doubt amongst the ranks. But I was told McGuiness had no friends and spent hours fly fishing on lonely stretches of river. Perfect place to be turned and meet. I heard the story were Brian Keenan who was on the run was in a two car convoy travelling through a small town near border. McGuiness was driving the scout car when he seen a high ranking ruc man swerved to pull over had a 40 second conversation what was later reported as a strange inocius conversation same ruc man got on the radio he stopped the second car arrested Brian Keenan a Belfast man who was so afraid of informers when realised moved and was welcomed by boys from south Armagh. take into account the boys in South Armagh wouldn't even meet with Belfast IRA because they litteraly thought them all to be informers
The organisation they founded, funded & operated, using Irish citizens as live targets training their military in urban warfare which they then implemented in the middle east.
@@SPIDERM0OSE I always thought along those lines. The Brits were given a lemon (uprising in the North of Ireland) and made lemonade ("the Falklands war was won on the street of Belfast and the fields of South Armagh").
@@timothyoreilly6675 they might have beat Argentina but Diego at the same time single handedly destroyed the football team with a hand of god and other goal best of all time lol
@@jackietreehorn5561 🙂
When super-grass Raymond Gilmour betrayed the Derry Brigade in 1980 , Martin was not even lifted . That should tell any doubters the real truth . He was untouchable .
The cemetery is full of men and women who could not be bought with British money or title . Such a waste of life and limb . The long years spent in jail by Derry POWs and the misery endured by their families has been for nothing .
the stories about McGuinness being a British agent are rumours spread on the internet by MI5, and are then picked up by other people who believe them. You should be smarter
That proves nothing. Not to mention how do you know McGuinness was not lifted ? Do you carry out 24/7 surveillance on McGuinness' House? Obviously no so how do you really know
The was a lot of moles in the ra
yes the media say that a lot - but they would, wouldn't they ?@@mufc99ok
We're gossiping about serious things here. If the guy was an informer and that's on the word of an FRU member which was a state sponsored Death squad. I'm not a fan of the good Friday agreement but I need more evidence than that. And o'rawe comes across as a bitter miserable man, there's nothing worse than calling a republican a tout so you'd better have your ducks properly lined up before you just hint at a man who can't defend himself.
How did adams and mcguiness survive all through the troubles, it was a dirty conflict, not an out and out war, who controlled the intelligence won the conflict, the British government let adams out of long kesh / maze in the early 70s for talks in britain with the goverment and returned him inside when talks failed, MI5 was in the thick of it and as always it was the poor innocent working classes mainly on both sides who would suffer the consequences, but let's not forget the social tumour that matasisised into the form of provo marixism,was fed by ulster protestant bigotry, hatetred and sheer ignorance towards catholics who were treated shamefully and by appathy from governments and armchair republican politians in the south and as always a dangerous interfering church in rome, god help the poor people, but leave it to the brits to mess everything up, just like their globalist gready illetes have done to that country today and again the ordinary working people and I say working people, suffer and so we here in the south will also suffer the fate of Marxism in the guise of liberal socialists and snobbery, just wait and see what type of social cancer it will develope into with the help of ngos and a corrupt media, but the people are getting tired and desperate times lead to desperate foreboding, may god help us all
If you think about even if army council caught them bang to rights they couldn’t admit it for it would splinter movement so bad it could never recover. I’ve refused to believe such rumours for years but it starts to wear you down.
Working class loyalist lived in the same houses in the same streets for fuck sake so don't give it the poor we nationals storytelling. Martin maginness was responsible for the Enniskillen poppy day massacre did you're Google not tell u?
@@patkearney9320 Well, if he and Adams were wrong uns, the brits ran it all......
@@dominicseanmccann6300 Well if the Brits ran it all they where fighting against themselves that’s silly, in my comment I said I refused to believe it but it wears you down. I don’t mean I believe for one second that Martin and Gerry are plants for the brits. Truly I don’t understand what you mean.
Key Question "How did Martin Guinness avoid jail time?" in relation to all the time he was leader. That for me was a huge red flag.
Not really. British intelligence recognised very early on that Gerry Adams (then a senior member of PIRA army council) was wanting to take the campaign towards a peace agreement (which suited British intelligence), Gerry Adams had a good working relationship with Martin McGuinness (another senior PIRA army council member) so arresting and putting into prison either Martin McGuinness or Gerry Adams would have left way for a more extremist element into the PIRA army council which may have lead to the PIRA never wanting peace.
sorry i dont buy this story@@maxpaws3977
McGuiness actually done time in Portlaoise prison (in the 70s I think)
McGuinness was more important to MI5 on the street than languishing in a prison cell.
He did time in South Ireland
There was so many informers who knows the truth, the ones who do certainly ain’t talking yet. So fascinating watching these videos now coming to light what a mad world we all live in.
That. A grave insult to great man who cannot defend himself yet cowards n not Irish
Richard I finished your book tonight. Christ almighty what a read. Blew my fucking mind.
Everyone from Joe Cahill to Gerry Adams have been accused. My point is, it's too serious of an accusation to make in absence of hard evidence.
J118
If I've seen the document's I'm sure you have yourself, the ones he's putting his brother willy down who also is mentioned as a informer, I know document's can be muddy but ??
@@andyrae7265William not martin
@ciaranbrown324 no these papers it's him getting debriefed by X? And in those papers it says something like , about that other thing , ahh don't worry about that I've got that idiot so .....* he thinks it was himself William who came up with the plan/idea * , why if its Wullie is he talking about himself in 3rd person? But at least u admit those documents are out there that's a start
@ciaranbrown324 and one last part I'd forgotten, why was Brian Mc .... shouting from Gaol in London he was stiffin Martin when he got out ? Because he believed that marty gave him away bringing gear over from Donegal I believe it was ? Even why word came in trying to let be honest trying too puy fear into him but he wouldn't when he got out became a massive critic of PSF an the GFA only when he was ill later on went back for whatever reason, you can't fault a dying man that and certainly not a man like him
If you are that senior and that known for so many years and never get touched you are either the luckiest man in the world or an informer. You decide folks.
Do you know Thomas ' Slab' Murphy.
He was more important to the movement than any one man. Armagh his house straddled the border.... Have a read help your brain your tongues embarrassing us all
its the norm for mi5..mi6 to give the impression there was and is loads of informers......downing street,,,brighton..horse guards...canary wharf...narrow water..how did they go ahead ??
Who recruited McG to the Provos ?
Manchester the Baltic exchange,.. they set off 26 car bombs 0n bloody Friday when it was thought the Main
Body of the movement was interened ..the balcombe street gang held London hostage for 18 months. And there was only six of them.
@@SPIDERM0OSE the Provo's split from the official IRA when he was 19
They also had a European number of units with links too ETA PLO AND FARC LATER ON.
A friend of mine saw the bandstand explode ,,, fun fact the horse's got more get well cards than the squaddies true fact.
This is the problem with the secret/dirty war! Everything becomes very murky and things aren’t what they seem. I agree with much of what Richard said, but Ian Hurst (who I respect and are thankful for, for telling us about many of the FRU’s dark secrets as well as for lifting the lid on Scappaticci), he (Hurst) did have an axe to grind with Martin McGuinness. I believe Ian Hurst was Frank Hegarty’s handler or was involved in some capacity with him, and I believe he took the killing of Hegarty really personal. I’m sure Ian Hurst mentions this in his book Stakeknife, of how he felt about that killing. If that is the case could it be that his hatred of McGuinness would be so great that he wanted to destroy or destroy McGuinnesses reputation? Using dirty tricks tactics that the FRU and British are famous for! I myself is on the fence still with McGuinness being a spy. If down the line it is revealed he was…Well…
Update 27 March 2024: article in the Belfast Telegraph and I believe a BBC program on tonight about McGuinness…Martin McGuinness, the CIA, Mossad… and the extraordinary 50-year disappearance of a compromising film.
Could this reveal some more information either supporting that McGuinness was a spy or not?
The Secret Army is on BBC iPlayer - and on BBC Two Northern Ireland on 27 March at 21:00 and BBC Four on 2 April at 22:00.
www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/opinion/columnists/sam-mcbride/martin-mcguinness-the-cia-mossad-and-the-extraordinary-50-year-disappearance-of-a-compromising-film/a2133111338.html
Hurst (Martin Ingram) was Hegarty's handler. I find it difficult to believe McGuiness was a tout but who knows? Hegarty's murder leaves a lot of questions to be answered, like dead men don't talk. The FRU was an umbrella organisation covering many different units. They became the most professional intel-unit. Unlike RUC Special Branch. M15. Customs & CID et-al. Hegarty was the only agent they lost. Unlike the others who lost dozens either by abandoning them or allowing them to be murdered to shut them up, when they were no longer useful.
Even now years later there isn't consensus even between the same sides as to who, what and when happened in Ireland. There never will be.
An ex RM sniper I worked alongside for many years told me had Mcguinness in his sights on two separate ocassions and was denied permission to take the shot both times. This was in the early to mid '70's. Work it out for yourselves.
Because McGuinness settled for less, does not mean he was an informer, he wasn't.. That's a ploy by the British to sow doubt.
For Adams, from the getgo, Politics was always the way, the IRA were a means to an end hence his denial of membership. He with others, slowly convinced McGuinness that politics was the way and that doesn't make him an informer, it makes him a Leader and a great one. The achievement of the Political Project that is Sinn Fein is absolutely stunning. That is his legacy.
The true genuine authentic lrish Republican legacy lies with the gallant martyrs who made the ultimate sacrifice whilst on active service against the British Crown and on hunger strike in their illegal occupier concentration camp prisons in lreland.
Nobody said settling for less makes you an informer.
Promoting known agents into positions of power and influence does!
It was the bombs of the IRA that got Sinn Fein to the negotiating table.
@@bosco292 and after all that they surrendered like cowards
@@marksmith6952 Mark l posted a box of English Roses 🌹from Somerset for you in the post for the house, gives a shout when ya get them goodman yourself. 🏴 🌹
@@bosco292 will do thank you 👍
Martin Mcguiness and gerry adams are both brussle sprouts 💯
That why south armagh brigade were taken out by the sas in Loughgall, Gerry and Martin set it up.
Was the tyrone/monaghan brigade that died at loughgall
@@mccarey5932 Bit of the track .Loughgall is in co armagh?
Nope, that was Scap who informed something like 3 to 4 week-end in advance...
@damayantimukherjee7889 No don't think he wouldn't had information on the armagh brigade, unless gerry told him or army concil.
@user-gl1ti5yz9p yes I don't know why the tyrone brigade choose loughgall but It was them it was headed by paddy kelly and Jim lynagh(who I've heard people accuse of being an informant but it's probably nonsense)
He wasn’t an informer…but a negotiating asset for the Brits ….lose MmcG and hardliners will pose a threat to progress…that’s my read.
He's right that republicans don't want to contemplate it; just as unionists don't want to contemplate that the British had the IRA turned inside out and were directing both sides for their prolonged live training exercise aka the Troubles.
The City and Docklands ops nearly collapsed the UK economy - the financial services sector was one bang away from total obliteration.
He was spotted coming from a meeting with British Detectives in a known Brit house.
Yes making peace. See your sitting in your house now? Hear that silence? Yep no bombs shooting etc all martin and big gerry. Peace you have to meet the ememy to make peace..
He was spotted getting in and out of big ford granadas too.
He was protected .shit him self when stone came after him.adams brother was a pedophile an was also compromised.
If it was known as a Brit house it would have been targeted....or did you mean shit house.
@@anthonydonlan3140Both sides watched safe houses and 303 up the chimney houses, you gain more by not shooting your bolt.
Scap,Martin also Gerry where on a different level,not one of them got their heads caved in,you have to ask youself why.Ordinary people as in republicans got smashed,arrested,interned,familys houses destroyed. tell me why it didn't happen to them? Martin at Larry Marleys funeral makes me think different.
Gerry was shot one time and survived. They had to play the game to get peace.
@@user-rs4rw6oo3v The gun was used by big Grug .the ammo was interfered with by a loyalist mi5 agent.
@@user-rs4rw6oo3vGerry got shot 5 times I think coming out of Court but the bullets had been tampered with by security forces, rendering them almost harmless, that's why he survived. The Brits wanted him alive & de-activated the bullets to protect their loyalist informers.
Who knows! Nothing would surprise me anymore about anyhing that happened during the troubles
Brussel sprout he was 😮
when he shook the queens hand....it looked like a masonic handshake
Well, from anyone's perspective it was far too much to bear.
I said that soon as I saw it
They were all doing the double by the looks of it
Imagine that.
No TV licence either
Mc Guinness Adam’s steak knife all work for the British army
Yes, i can tell you that he was, so was Adams, how do you think that they were allowed to last as long as they did, they were protected by the British Government, it was all a game to them, people died, but to them it was just a game, OP BANNER was the British Armys training ground.
It wasn't a game, it was the Brit military using Brit citizens as live target practice as they perfected their urban warfare tactics that later employed in the middle east
Look up Thomas slab Murphy...they were mouth pieces protected by the light of the news cycle.... Murphy ran the border campaign.. Armagh's A Team where the British couldn't use the roads. His house cut through the border he had his breakfast in Eire a shit in the UK.... Stop revising the struggle.... Eejitts
And now we're been turned into a Muslim town ship without fireing a shot,
This is a brilliant interview an maybe very close to the turth i wouldnt be shocked at any members name that was brought forward
Adams as well come on
Absolutely terrible the psychological impact on working class areas, working people killing each other in social deprivation areas ,the winners the state the undertakers ,and the the people who exploited the uneducated, who ever it was has a lot to answer for,the trauma in kids and families in them ghettos must be horrendous......
Freddie Scapattici.
Now Martin McGuinness. How many more ?
Mart garfunkle was definitely an informer
It's common knowledge he was.. named and shamed in the book (Thatchers spy) and seen on many occasions leaving the same safehouse on the coast of Co. Derry with a known 14th int. handler.
What about the safe house in Limavady?
Of course McGuiness was a tour for MI5... pissed the question when he was so close to Adams... if Adams himself is suspect...
No chance was Martin one! Only the dissys would come up with this rubbish!
Martin McGuinness was his code name was bread knife.😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 why the brits buttered 😂😂😂😂 him up 😂😂😂😂😂
Who cares, he used to come into my father's shop for fishing tackle, lovely man!
Who Adams or McGuinness
@@MarieCassidy-zd8sc McGuinness I'd assume based on other comments in the thread.
Yeah a truly wonderful and warm human being.......... FFS!
It’s unwise IMHO for Richard to speculate without absolutely ironclad proof due to MMGs position and role. It only discredits his own work amongst those already skeptical of it.
Probably
"the fisherman"
Martin McGuinness was chief of staff of the IRA during Warrenpoint and Mountbatten and on the army council during the Brighton bomb hardly a informer.
U sure it wasn’t IB
@@Fran-ct4kb Martin McGuinness was chief of staff from spring 78 to autumn 82
Great place for an informer too be if ur the enemy tbh 🤔
Ahhh Mountbatten the job we all thought a cracker , till the stench from the secret service keeped pervading through
@@Fran-ct4kb who
I'd stopped listening when he said Force Reaction Unit
He should do his research.
Spot on !
Why? What was the mistake there?
O'Rawe's ego has got the better of him, thinks he's some kind of authority on the IRA because he's pandered to by the same people who've peddled Brit propaganda for years and hate the movement he left years ago.
Did it ever accure to some of you the leaders are untouchable for a reason? If Adams, who wanted a political settlement from the early days was gone there was Martin McGuiness who was more extreme. After McGuiness maybe someone even more extreme?
Adams wasn't gone tho and political settlement was never reached... Adams was shot before
Jaysus lads clutching at straws here..☘️🇮🇪
John Edward Drayton Stephenson
Did they make these accusations whilst he was alive, if not then they’re a bunch of cnuts !!!
And be another victim of the nutting squad?
TOUT
Ov course McGuinness was a grass wake up
Bit short on a few layers!!
So who killed Dominic McGlinchey ?? asking for a friend
Don't think anyone was charged....
Too many touts in the IRA 😮
They were all up to their necks in it, on both sides,
As a tout myself I can assure you he wasn’t a tout 🤣🇮🇪
But you didn't end up riding Freddie's elevator going down into hell? 😄
He was a kiddy fiddler
So was your daddy.
If mc Guinness was an informer, he was the worst informer ever.
1000’s of IRA men and women were killed, jailed for long periods of time or went on the run for there IRA activity.
McGuinness lived a very charmed life for the calibre of IRA man he was portrayed as being.
His activity around Hegarty was incompetent at best and he deserved to be dark roomed just like every other Volunteer but he wasn’t.
The evidence against him portrays two scenarios, highly incompetent or an agent, either of which is just as dangerous.
Take a nap stop your yap show some proof or shut your trap. Thomas slab Murphy from ARMAGH lived a charmed life also Didn't he. What's your view on one shot. Even Francis Hughes he had a ridiculously phenomenal run . Stick to Scape. I'm going to go feed the mushrooms in the dark room
Never heard as much rubbish in my life. If 1 was sell out it was Adams when his comrades were round him longkesh maze dying he was I'm not Provo let's all talk. Heeze giving oratorys graveside when thay men fill Miltown plots..
In every army there's a hierarchy. The ones pulling the strings of the men who die don't die in the war.
Ok lets believe a British soldier first that claims Martin was a tout
Was Douglas Baeder a Tap Dancer... We'll just never know. No one's denied it. Click bait mastubate. It's all good to me...😂
Actually he was and he was the best in his class.
@@kng4aday obviously you came a Close second, is it true you have false legs and real feet
@@anthonydonlan3140 If I was in Douglas Bader"s class that might have been the case,.
@@kng4aday headcase ?
@@anthonydonlan3140 It was a jocular reply, not aimed at any person, since the irony of me correcting the spelling of Bader eluded you I will refrain from further comments.
Certainly an IRA bomb maker especially when this new film has appeared
Him & his band on men blowing up the town he came from & apparently intimidating the film makers if they show this (the film) they're dead his words
I know we're you live & I know people in America
He certainly owes his victims families
Maguiness was no informer ,a crafty strategist, look where SF are today 😊
Yes look at them WEF pupets.
McGuiness was loathed by Kevin McKenna. He viewed him as inept.
Martin was definitely a sly and devious character though, as slippery as Adams.
According to Brian Keenan, McGuiness was the reason he was lifted by the RUC in 1979 (subsequently sent to jail for about 14 years). He needlessly drew attention to the car that Brian Keenan was sat in. And again, it's speculated that McGuinness viewed Keenan as a potential rival and thus took the opportunity to do away with him at the hands of the British.
Much has been made of Adams and McGuiness being some legendary (almost mythical) negotiating team that ran rings around the British and Irish governments. Adams even admitted at points during the drafting of the GFA that he had no idea what was going on and only Ted Howell knew.
Theres zero Republicanism in the GFA. Absolutely none. So again, everything that SF supposedly fought for and stood for, how has that advanced the cause for Irish freedom and reunification. It's a complete abandonment of it. They are administering British rule in the north and that's about it.
The Shinners have turned the war into something for a fight for equal rights and justice. People lap it up, it's utter bollocks.
Total war, or no war at all.
Brits out Africa, Pakistan, Middle East in. That’s Sf today disgraceful
Yes yes
A Grass is a grass says this Englishman,can't believe Mc Guiness was a rat
Rest in peace Martin 🙏
🤣 peace in hell? I don't think so
Scapo was a bad one,Wouldn’t trust him one inch.
J118
None of yous had balls to say to his face
Exactly! These stories about McGuinness and Adams and every tom dick and harry at the top of the IRA being a british agent are stories made up by MI5, put pn the internet and then it becomes like chinese whispers where people repeat and repeat thing until it's all blown out proportion to the extent people are saying the whole IRA army council are agents. They bestwo these almost supernatural powers on the british army and mi5. Based on the best available evidence Scappatici was the Brits' most senior agent n the IRA. there is no credible evidence anybody more senior than that was a British agent.
Absolute nonsense
Martin mcguinnes a informer thats laughable
He doesnt have to be an informer.
There's agents of influence for starters. As soon as Adams and McGuiness took over Sinn Fein from the southern leadership, Brit military intelligence noted a weakness with them and exploited that to its full potential.
As John Kelly correctly states, "as soon as any army is talking peace and ceasefires, then you know it's not in good shape". Adams and McGuiness were happy and content to let the campaign wind down and divert funds away from the military side of things towards the careerism of taking seats in parliament and being seen as statesmen.
The gear that was brought in from Libya was never seriously used in any capacity. Why? It was used more to prevent splits and to say to some of the more hardline elements "look we've got the gear, we're committed to the war" but it was more use for propaganda than anything.
nothing you have said is even remotely indicative that Mcguinness or adams were Agents. @@Heresy1987
Adam's was the only man that did not burn hut down in the Kesh sevenths
It really is laughable isn't it. As soon as people say it I immediately conclude they are either a massively paranoid slightly disturbed former IRA member or a bit thick
@davenic9781 They noted a weakness with McGuinness??
When asked his opinion of Martin McGuinness, an MI5 agent codenamed thr mountian climber who did the bulk of negotiations with McGuinness, said 'he reminded me of a senior member of the SAS"
I doubt the brits identified weakness