I agree, all good leaders start in the butt(MRO). I start with Ultra green 40(20") then to 25-same length. I switch to flouro 17 and finally flouro 13. In all, about 6'. I'm throwing an intermediate 7 and 8 weight mostly for smallies and pike. Also, I found some manufacturers have a different (smaller) diameter to the same lb test, which may be a factor when building and casting. I tried to gradually reduce the lb and diameter to the tippet. I have not tried the sonar 3, 5, 7 yet, but I'm thinking maybe eliminate one section and go a bit shorter. Any comments are welcomed.
I remember when I was first learning fly fishing and didn’t realize I had this boomerang issue until I lost my fly in a branch. I started practicing shooting line without a fly on the end of the leader because I wasn’t going to get snagged in the bushy area I was fishing in. I noticed I could shoot line so easily without the fly, and it puzzled me why. After a few more fishing sessions experimenting with different sizes and weights of flies, I got very different casting results. Some flies would completely plop down as if they fell from a building, rather than coming from my rod. I thought the issue was that my rod and fly line weight needed to be heavier for larger flies, but I never considered the leader connection point as a weakness in the chain until I saw videos on RUclips talking about butt stiffness and hinging. I tried the bell curve setup, and it seemed okay, I guess, but still not the beautiful style I had when casting without a fly. Now, after seeing your video, it all makes sense. I’m going to try an even stiffer butt section and see if I can finally achieve that beautiful casting experience I've only ever had without a fly on the end. I’m still quite green at fly fishing, as you can probably tell. Thanks for your video, mate!
Thanks for this! I've definitely had times where I thought I had a proper leader setup but was less than impressed with my casting results, going to a stiffer butt might just be the solution 🤙
I have been experimenting and agree on the stiffer 25 and 30# MUG/Chameleon, I always use a barrel swivel somewhere bear the last transition and keep mine about 5’ 🤙
This ^. I do the same, but only need 20lb chameleon for the butt on my 6wt. 15lb ultra green for the tippet. Was using tippet rings for the transition, but switching over to micro swivels.
Great video! I love your leader formula. Just curious, do you cut the loop of your fly line? Brain and Flip are always suggesting to cut the loop. Keep on the great work! Thank you!
I leave the loop on. I swap leaders a lot for different situations so I can’t always count on having the same butt section work for me. Good luck out there
Great info, thanks. I've had to "duck" a few streamers and it isn't any fun. Now, dude, I really like your shirt so where can I find one? Do Good, Have Fun and release some fish!!!
I have some hats with holes in them from streamers clockin me in the head! Hahaha! The shirts? One is an Orvis and the other an LL Bean Chamois cloth. I don’t think the Orvis one can be found anymore. 🤘
There is something philosophically wrong with the "gamechanger" flies. You really do not need 4-inch-dumbbell-eye-over-1gr flies. If one goes over 1gr one can cast it with a regular gear and 6lb braid line. You do not need 210grain line to cast 20ft. Also, you do not need accuracy with the sinking lines, but you need straight turnover. So, that indirectly translates to accuracy. The reason you want straight turnover is that you want your fly to fish quickly. The way to guarantee that is to lend the line and the fly straight across you. Since the first second the line and the fly land on water is the last second you will see them, if they land straight, you know that your line is not going to be ahead of your fly (so it does not shoo the fish away), you can keep the line tight enough to feel the take and finally you can estimate the depth the fly is travelling. Also, I highly recommend single hand spey casting with sinking lines.
@@TieitAndFlyit For single hand spey I build my own sinking heads out of sink tips and sinking poly/versileaders. I use 8-9ft 3-4 weight rods and stay 100-140 grain weight. The heads are short 17-22ft range and I keep the taper long. You can cast to 50-65ft regularly. But I do not use these articulated long heavy flies. I do not believe they bring anything to the table when it comes to trout fishing. Their "inventor" claims, in order to create action you need to jig them with the rod. I found that ridiculous. I believe they bring what they learned in bass fishing with baitcasters to fly fishing trout. It is okay if it is your thing but definitely not a gamechanger.
Want to really get rid of that hinge??? Cut OFF the LOOP! I saw my acuracy increase drastically with streamers once I followed Flip Pallot's advice to cut off the loop conections and nail knot (he calls it a snell) the leader directly to the line. I will NOT be going back!
I agree, all good leaders start in the butt(MRO). I start with Ultra green 40(20") then to 25-same length. I switch to flouro 17 and finally flouro 13. In all, about 6'. I'm throwing an intermediate 7 and 8 weight mostly for smallies and pike. Also, I found some manufacturers have a different (smaller) diameter to the same lb test, which may be a factor when building and casting. I tried to gradually reduce the lb and diameter to the tippet. I have not tried the sonar 3, 5, 7 yet, but I'm thinking maybe eliminate one section and go a bit shorter. Any comments are welcomed.
Howdy friends I’m Brian Flechsig
I was thinking the same thing. Use the same diameter fluro for the 18" of tippet to the fly. Seems like a great mod.
I remember when I was first learning fly fishing and didn’t realize I had this boomerang issue until I lost my fly in a branch. I started practicing shooting line without a fly on the end of the leader because I wasn’t going to get snagged in the bushy area I was fishing in. I noticed I could shoot line so easily without the fly, and it puzzled me why.
After a few more fishing sessions experimenting with different sizes and weights of flies, I got very different casting results. Some flies would completely plop down as if they fell from a building, rather than coming from my rod. I thought the issue was that my rod and fly line weight needed to be heavier for larger flies, but I never considered the leader connection point as a weakness in the chain until I saw videos on RUclips talking about butt stiffness and hinging.
I tried the bell curve setup, and it seemed okay, I guess, but still not the beautiful style I had when casting without a fly. Now, after seeing your video, it all makes sense. I’m going to try an even stiffer butt section and see if I can finally achieve that beautiful casting experience I've only ever had without a fly on the end.
I’m still quite green at fly fishing, as you can probably tell. Thanks for your video, mate!
Thanks for this! I've definitely had times where I thought I had a proper leader setup but was less than impressed with my casting results, going to a stiffer butt might just be the solution 🤙
Yeah it should do the trick. The leader won’t get “whipped” around when you start stiffening it up. Got get a big one🤘
I have been experimenting and agree on the stiffer 25 and 30# MUG/Chameleon, I always use a barrel swivel somewhere bear the last transition and keep mine about 5’ 🤙
This ^. I do the same, but only need 20lb chameleon for the butt on my 6wt. 15lb ultra green for the tippet. Was using tippet rings for the transition, but switching over to micro swivels.
Great video! I love your leader formula. Just curious, do you cut the loop of your fly line? Brain and Flip are always suggesting to cut the loop. Keep on the great work! Thank you!
I leave the loop on. I swap leaders a lot for different situations so I can’t always count on having the same butt section work for me. Good luck out there
I want a 3’ leader for my deep sink tip. what should i do?
Great info, thanks. I've had to "duck" a few streamers and it isn't any fun. Now, dude, I really like your shirt so where can I find one? Do Good, Have Fun and release some fish!!!
I have some hats with holes in them from streamers clockin me in the head! Hahaha! The shirts? One is an Orvis and the other an LL Bean Chamois cloth. I don’t think the Orvis one can be found anymore. 🤘
@@greenhornflyhorn Thanks for the info. I'll see what I can find. Preciate your work and input. b lookin forward to the next video!!!
There is something philosophically wrong with the "gamechanger" flies. You really do not need 4-inch-dumbbell-eye-over-1gr flies. If one goes over 1gr one can cast it with a regular gear and 6lb braid line. You do not need 210grain line to cast 20ft. Also, you do not need accuracy with the sinking lines, but you need straight turnover. So, that indirectly translates to accuracy.
The reason you want straight turnover is that you want your fly to fish quickly. The way to guarantee that is to lend the line and the fly straight across you. Since the first second the line and the fly land on water is the last second you will see them, if they land straight, you know that your line is not going to be ahead of your fly (so it does not shoo the fish away), you can keep the line tight enough to feel the take and finally you can estimate the depth the fly is travelling.
Also, I highly recommend single hand spey casting with sinking lines.
Which spey lines specifically? Any in particular?
@@TieitAndFlyit For single hand spey I build my own sinking heads out of sink tips and sinking poly/versileaders. I use 8-9ft 3-4 weight rods and stay 100-140 grain weight. The heads are short 17-22ft range and I keep the taper long. You can cast to 50-65ft regularly.
But I do not use these articulated long heavy flies. I do not believe they bring anything to the table when it comes to trout fishing. Their "inventor" claims, in order to create action you need to jig them with the rod. I found that ridiculous. I believe they bring what they learned in bass fishing with baitcasters to fly fishing trout. It is okay if it is your thing but definitely not a gamechanger.
Is this a loop to loop?
Sorry… saw the answer below.
Want to really get rid of that hinge??? Cut OFF the LOOP! I saw my acuracy increase drastically with streamers once I followed Flip Pallot's advice to cut off the loop conections and nail knot (he calls it a snell) the leader directly to the line. I will NOT be going back!
Dude.. bring down the background music. Gets in the way of your presentation.
I will bring this up at our next meeting. Thanks for your feedback