You Can't Talk About Yu-Gi-Oh Without Talking About Price.
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- Опубликовано: 7 фев 2025
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/ @apsamplifier
does this dude ever stop complaining?
Can't wait to see the 3 hour reaction to the reaction to the reaction
Can't wait to see reac-ception
I want to see the conga line. A proper react to react to react to react. Not the half-ass shit we got last time. A proper chain! YGO players are used to that, right?
Gonna react to that
@@JcBravo8 it used to be about chains. Now it's about negating your opponent's viewpoint by shouting NO at them until they don't want to be around you.
Literally😂
@2:35 here's the thing my dude, I DON'T EVEN WANT TO PLAY AT THE TOP LEVEL. This stupid game is at a point where if you want to bare minimum keep up AT ALL, you need to drop 600 bucks on a playset of fuwalos and engravers and that's not even for a GOOD DECK because these cards can slot into ANY deck and make it a stronger list - in fact, MBT did just that with Heros recently and had some pretty good results from it. Hell, ignore the engravers - imagine trying to play ANYTHING in this format WITHOUT fuwalos right now. Or how about last year before Bonanza, when S:P was floating around 60-100$ and was a massive disadvantage to go without it in extra for most decks. The game has a massive accessibility issue and that is absolutely compounding on top of all the other issues it already has. We NEED to adopt the OCG rarity distribution *badly*
Dude that’s not a lot of money. Do you have a big boy job?
@@blackopstrololers would you like to buy us some cards then good sir? My big boy job money goes to big boy things like insurance and bills.
@@Lapshark don't fell for the ragebait, dude is a troll
Heck, this is why I'm more and more tempted to quit YGO for Vanguard. It's waaaaaay more accessible in my country and offers the same amount (if not more) of fun. Most of my Vanguard decks are like around 25 to 50 buck AT MAX. My HERO deck on the other hand (my favorite archetype btw) is way overpriced for how bad pure HERO is. Gotta agree on the OCG rarity distribution tho' : would bring some much needed variety in terms of both price and cards ; other games are printing some cards in Full Arts, primatic foils and sh*t but not YGO... This whole situation could've been avoided, or fixed for that matter, if Konami was paying attention to what players ACTUALLY wanted from their game.
Josh: I feel a disturbance in the Force...
After visiting my locals with my $30 battlewasp deck, the common advice I got was "Try this deck instead" or "add these cards to your deck" and they would always be out of my budget. I'm trying to build my first "viable" deck now and the cheapest I could find it for was $300. It is disheartening to know i'm going to have to save weeks just to build a deck that I can take a 2nd turn with.
Not only that, but that $300 deck may very well be pushed out by the time you obtain the deck.
You know I both understand and hate the “just play a different deck” stance. TCG’s carry a lot of self expression, so I want to play a deck that genuinely interests me. Be it the theme, art, style of play, etc. If the better decks win, but doesn’t interest me beyond that; spending the money just doesn’t feel as worth it at times, especially if it cost me an arm and a leg to build it. I’ve had a similar issue with FAB as much as I love that game it’s a bit hard to justify “keeping up.”
Try dragonmaids with stun. Fairly cheap around $50.
If you want a deck that is super fun and competitive, try branded. Its been getting cheaper and cheaper with the reprints and yes it does struggle this format but if yourr just wanting to chill and not go to many high level events its such a rewarding deck to play
Idk what decks you're looking at or what level of viability you're looking for. I'm currently playing Gladiator Beast and for some reason I'm about to compete and beat meta decks like Maliss. It didn't cost me $300 to build this and that's with staples like Nibiru, Triple Tactics Talent, etc. There's other decks out there as well that can pretty well as rogue. Imo I think it's important to invest in your staples, even if you have to chip away at it. Also pay attention to sets that reprints to get staples. Like this new upcoming Blue Eyes Structure deck. While it will be decent in it's own right. Spending $30-40 on a huge pile of cards that will also give you 3 Ash Blossom, 3 Nibiru, 6 Effect Veiler, 3 Infinite Impermanence is a good deal for that alone. Then you get all of these Blue Eyes cards to go with them.
I think I see the nature of this issue being highlighted perfectly in locals gameplays from PAK - when he drops a fuwaloss on someone going second, it completely changes the dynamic of his oppo’s turn, but I’ve rarely seen him be fuwa’d back (which I’m sure has something to do with how expensive the card is, maybe the oppo never drew it, etc). The point is that these cards aren’t exactly needed to do well, but you are kneecapping your play experience without them. Konami obviously knows this, and upping the card rarity definitely shows this. I’m sure many, many people would love to put fiendsmith cards in their decks regardless of the archetype, but simply can’t because 1 engraver costs more than someone’s weekly groceries.
Also this is not meant to dunk on PAK, I love his locals gameplays, just something I’ve observed.
Paul has been dropping absolute bangers as of late. These conversations are very important to have and these are all great points.
It's always been odd to me how different the OCG has been compared to the TCG. Are they also having conversations like these? Or are these issues exterior to the actual gameplay uncommon?
Keep up the good work!
I doubt they're having these conversations. In the OCG, Fuwalos is a Rare and S:P was printed as a Super Rare, Secret Rare and QCR in AGOV. In the TCG, both were only printed as Secret Rare/QCR. The OCG has the Tactical-Try decks as great options for new players to get into the game with a ready-to-play deck complete with handtraps, and the TCG has... Nothing.
For some reason, Konami is purposefully making the TCG worse, more expensive and harder to get into, trying to squeeze the existing playerbase dry instead of trying to grow the game.
Try not being poor
@@moominfin They are making the tcg worse because the same goobers are allowing them to do it, just wait till (and with this i wish no ill intent to anyone) the whales either die or leave the game for things to change
@@mantraki You can't blame anyone but Konami for it. No one is forcing them to do it, and there's no reason to believe they wouldn't make more money in the long run by making the game more accessible and improving the collectability with alternate rarities and alt arts.
@@blackopstrololers you are terrible at trolling homie. Buying the cards makes you poor. $600 on paper rectangles is stupid no matter how much money you have. Enjoy your playmat lol
In the area i live in, almost every locals near me has more than 2/3 of the players running whatever happens to be meta for each format. I cannot play the decks i enjoy without getting curb-stomped every week. This wouldn’t be that big of a problem if it weren’t for the fact that most of the people i played casuals with jumped ship or are Master Duel only now. This is also compounded by the fact that since i haven’t had the desire to buy any new product, my entire collection has lost more than half it’s value and power. So i am stuck with a mountain of power-crept cards and no one to play with irl.
If the game wasn’t so expensive to where i have to drop an entire paycheck to build a deck that’ll just get its best stuff banned in 4 months, I wouldn’t be complaining this hard.
I think is also important to mention that when people can finally afford the cards they usually have been powercreept somewhat, so is not only that people are ok with the cards now that they can have them, but also that when that happens there are usually stronger more "broken" cards and that made the other cards seem fairer
i wonder how different the competitive scene in yugioh would look if the best cards and decks were decently affordable to everyone.
you’d have to imagine some of the top players would potentially struggle to top with way more competition due to a more even playing field for everyone.
that could be part of why a lot of people don’t want to talk about price in the game too
I really wonder how it would be if every card was available at common, and then it was just select cards that got higher rarity prints (the same we currently get)
@ THIS
I respect that Paul doesn't really call out Josh in a negative way, cause I feel he completely missed the point of the video and his take on being annoyed about talking about priced is very privileged in my opinion. Not every player can afford cards, it's just a fact. And to act like that isn't a factor is disingenuous to player like myself who only play MD and won't engage with TCG because I can't afford to build the decks I want to.
It’s really not what he said though but I guess this is just an excuse to attack someone for having a contrary opinion and we can’t miss that
@@ducky36F He literally said he doesn't like talking about the price because it's something that doesn't affect him so he doesn't like talking about it. That's literally disingenuous because that's a legit part of the problem with YGO. Acting like that isn't the issue is disingenuous
@@ducky36F it is exactly what he said, but i guess this is just an excuse to attack someone that supports the opposing content creator you parrot and we can't miss that.
Really i wouldn't mind the card prices if it didn't leak into locals.
Because all it takes is one person to drop the cash, then they're sweeping the floor because they're the only one who spent 300$ on Maxx C lite. One turns to two, two turns to four, and so on. Eventually the card gets a reprint, but by then the new hotness is out, and now the whales are winning because that new card is also at 100$ per.
PERFECTLY said.
Someone who's willing to whale can make the environment unplayable for everyone else.
I was going to echo this, I think YCS/Regionals is less of an issue but when even at one of the most casual levels, the expensive cards can polarize the game so much it is much more annoying.
“APS Drama again ….” - Joshua Schmidt chat 😂
I feel like the price can make it intimidating to get into playing competitive paper yugioh, not only do you have to worry about the price of the cards but also the fear of them getting banned soon after before you get the money to find and buy another deck
I've quitted Yugioh back in 2014.
I'm an active master duel player since release (with breaks).
The only thing that prevents me from playing this game irl is the price.
I feel extremely gatekept and miserable whenever I feel like I want to pick-up the game, look up the cards I need and see the prices for non-negiotable important staples.
I'm sure they are losing out on a lot of players, because of their policy to leech on the whales instead of making the game more accessible.
The monetization for Yu-Gi-Oh is malicious, they gotta common reprint all the competitive stuff. Same for master duel.
Again OCG and TCG audiences are different people like tasuku is much more common in OCG than TCG people who will forked 30k yen on dark magician girl are much much more common in OCG than TCG and products line are guaranteed to appeal this demography, while In TCG people are obsessed with nostalgia and old format, because TCG target audience is normies and nostalgia, OCG target audience is roleplayer and otaku.
You know what the funny is? Valiant smashers in ocg have scelta at near 1000usd for QCSR
In TCG even with double price the most expensive card in this set is legatia QCSR with 60usd average with price keeps dropping for no reason.
That's a huge indicator that TCG players don't generally like the OCG design and model.
@@stratking8693
part of the hate towards the best deck can also be the answers being expensive, "i can't counter fiendsmith cause druiswurm is 20 bucks" "i can't beat maliss because i can't afford fuwalos and meowls", and this problem gets even more exacerbated because budget decks are even more reliant on op staples to beat the meta due to the power level of the engine being drastically different!
like sure i can replace fuwalos with fantazmay for way cheaper, but i'm playing a tier 4 deck i'm not beating maliss if i replace fuwa with fantazmay
This card cleans your room and does your laundry, at the cost of your parents' life.
Josh: yeah thats fine. The card is so good anyway. Thats all that matters :D
A piece of cardboard should never cost more than a PS5 Pro lmao.
My favourite part of reprints, is when Konami bans them after the set with reprints is done being sold.
This is the most ridiculous thing
Good on Paul to make content for his fellow content creators gage and josh. You always gotta have that friend that pulls you back to reality
YES thank you the title literally says everything and is my frustration with the tcg and the conversation coming from pro players. the ivory tower mentality is completely detached from reality.
A lot of competitive players seem to be elitists that like the idea of certain cards being financially gate-kept. Konami isn’t gonna fix the pricing issue until people stop buying product
I remember when Borreload Dragon was reprinted as a common in the Rokket structure deck. So many people in my country were complaining that it was absurd for Borreload to become a cheap card. Even though by that point, Borreload was no longer used in the meta, only Borrelsword. And Store owners seemingly agreed, cause right after so many complaints, they raised the price for the common copy of Borreload. Elitism is a big plague among the Yu-Gi-Oh competitive scene.
@@NyxSakura I find that hilarious and sad, considering Takahashi's supposed goals for the game(people hanging out and having fun together).
Just don’t be poor
@ "let them eat cake" type comment
@@TheAlexRhodes Come on, it’s a trading card game. It’s always wild hearing people act like a purely entertainment product is life or death. I get you’re not literally saying people are starving, but that’s such an over the top take.
I think price is the common denominator in a lot of yugioh’s problems. A lot of problems in yugioh would either be ignored or solved if the price was significantly lower.
in yugioh, it always circles around to two things - price and printing practices are dog shit, and powercreep is smothering a game with a lack of meaningful alternative formats. Every single issue inevitably ties into these two factors.
No get a real job
@@DarkAuraLord what if I told you the 2 problems, powercreep and price/printing practices, are 2 sides of the same coin? 😎
Poor Josh will be harrased by his chat to react to this lol bet
Also, one thing I feel like Paul didn't talk about and pro players glossed over when it comes to reprints is the fact that by the time your favorite cards or decks get their reprint, they might already powercreeped or affected by the banlist and not be playable. Biggest example is SE from last year.
I quite literally can't play the decks I like to play irl. Masterduel is how I how I am able to play at all at the moment because I can't justify spending so much money just to play in person.
Josh’s privilege is tingling
Just don’t be poor
boss up
@@blackopstrololers I am not poor, far from it but I simply refuse to run in a hamster reel for money that makes me reset the whole thing every 6 months.
@ sounds like you are poor
@@lifequality Don't take the bait.
Even non-competitive decks, if you want high rarity, can still cost heaps of money. My ZombieSworn deck full of Ultras & Supers for aesthetic purposes. Still cost around $250AUD for a 40 card deck with a 15 card extra, buying every card online (TCGPlayer & eBay). I find it crazy how even the casual market can struggle from price-related issues.
Great vid as always, love your stuff brother.
My Hero deck is like 500 or some shit if I get the new support.
HERO
Fucking ridiculous.
How are you getting shipping to aus with tcgplayer?
@@xXNeoNashXx might not have been TCGPlayer, I bought the cards over a year ago. I remember I used a few different sites over time but honestly can't remember
500usd for max rarity? That's peanuts for OCG max rarity have you ever go to yuyutei and look at the price of maximum rarity for your archetypal cards in OCG.@@Dark-Law420
I know people wanna disregard this argument but you literally can’t. Because when you lose to the best deck, it’s more than likely because you can’t afford it. And so many people are okay with it either because of the curse of knowledge or sunk cost fallacy etc. being in Pokémon for awhile now, it’s nice to see other things get talked about because the Game is so accessible no matter what level. It’s hard to have open dialogue when so many people can’t even relate to it. And what competitive players forget, is that casual players are usually stuck being casual because they can’t get the same cards.
I took a break after Crossover Breakers since I didn't feel like dropping absurd amounts of money on either fiendsmith ryzeal, Maliss, or the Mulcharmys. Instead I tried playing One Piece and Union Arena. Tbh it breaks my heart to say it but I'm not sure I'll ever return to Yugioh. The games are way more affordable, and they aren't as insane as Yugioh has gotten recently. I've been playing since 2013 and I never thought I'd feel like this.
What you're experiencing right now is exactly what I went through with Pokémon. It's hard to see just how bad the pricing situation on its own is until you play other games.
In Pokemon you can build a Regional topping deck (decks that win 2000 player tournaments) for less than $100!!!
I forget whether Charizard EX won or topped a regional recently, but majority of what you need (INCLUDING ONE OF THE BEST ACE SPECS IN THE GAME) is now in a $30 battle box. As someone who used to play Yu-Gi-Oh, Pokémon's level of accessibility will always be jarring to me lmao
The deck that won the 2024 World Championships was only about $45
Except Lugia GX. That deck is 800 dollars (last I checked)
and those decks can win real prizes :)
@@u.a.perfectace7786 That isn't a deck.. so..
It's also especially frusturating that by the time certain cards become affordable/reprinted, they are either long since power crept or hit on banlist.
EZ solution: play free gameplay simulators like Dueling Nexus. And dont buy TCG cards for $100 each with no lower rarity available.
People should just prox more in Yugioh, it's far more common in Magic especially Commander. Sure you can't go to official tournaments, but you can at least play casual and test more expensive cards first.
proxies aren't as big in yugioh because there are free simulators available
Hey Paul can you talk about Yu-Gi-Oh decks just being piles/amalgamation of synergistic effects. No deck is "pure" if other brands are supplemented into a given arctype(s).
I would like to see this too, it's interesting how a lot of decks these days have multiple engines (excluding hand traps)
I think he talked about this a few years ago when this became the primary way of deckbuilding
Konami needs to stop printing splashable engines. Tired of seeing FS into everything. Just when you think you stopped your opponent. They link two monsters in Moon. Oh boy here go..
There is nothing wrong with splashed engines but fiendsmith should have been locking into fiends only
I think the pricing issue would be resolved if the tcg got the same treatment as the ocg.
It's part of why Pokémon is as cheap as it is to get into: it has something for you, regardless of whether you're a competitor, investor, or casual.
I agree
@@apsamplifier BTW your thumbnail looks as though you are very angry.
@@gaarafan89 pokemon is cheap competitively because nobody wants to play it. I am sorry but the game is incredibly stale and the meta is centered around powerful staples that every deck runs (they are cheaper than in ygo but its much the same experience)
Its a good collectors game but every deck is just whatever the new broken vstar/max is plus some utility mon and a couple tech slots.
@@Caquetoosesounds exactly like Yu-Gi-Oh. Every deck is lame ass fiendsmith, 20 non engine, and then you fill in the remaining slots with a couple of starters...
Talk-Gi-Oh more fun than the actual game
There is also a part of the community with unrealistic expectations. You’re never going to beat Ryzeal with dark magicians or crystal beasts. People want the impossible to happen. You can still enjoy these old decks by buying a playset of most staples. All up it will probably be less than $100. Just stop expecting to be able to reliably beat them unless you are playing out of your mind.
1. Where did this come from?
It's a talk about card prices not rogue vs meta.
2. As a rogue player the biggest issue is that even the current rogue decks of the last few years have trouble keeping up with the new sht.
It wasn't so bad in years past.
3. Dm can beat ryzeal if it gets good support, look at blue eyes and what it got. Even if it can't outright beat them, atleast it can compete in the same space.
Think my traptrix can do that rn even with ragnaraikas?
What about my branded chimera deck?
4. I'm pretty sure in fairly recent times someone was using paleo and doing fairly well against current decks.
ngl, talking about pricing, when I realized with that little jewel croc guy that was good in dinos some years ago that konami EN ON PURPOSE, pick cards that have a good perfomance in the japanese side and rarity bumb them because they're chase, I thought it was the scummiest shit of the world, and also another good example, god gearfried in the early days was run on infernoble, and it was a structured card, konami EN in their infinity wisdom picked up that structured, dismantled and slapped in that toon set and made god gearfried an high rarity, I legit dunno how ygo players let this pass
Feels like every month or two I had to spend 150€ MINIMUM to keep up. Now it's even more.
I gave up on the meta and almost giving up on TCG as well since there are some people at locals that just don't mind spending that much, but then you have to face an immense power gap.
I totally agree with Farfa, the game is too expensive and if you are a sensible adult or not super privileged you shouldn't be spending on it that much.
Unfortunately if you don't keep up, which basically means keep spending, it's a waste to even attend locals, which means even less people show up, mostly those that are hyper invested...
This kills the social aspect of the game for me, but it is what it is. Nothing lasts forever.
EDIT: Ironically enough it doesn't feel good to be the one winning with the super meta decks against the rogue ones either. I had a fully decked out Yubel deck pre-fiendsmith and whenever I won it left me feeling sorry, because it's just a bitter experience facing the power level of the deck at the time.
It's just not a super fun "social vehicle" for most people anymore.
Remember when they were doing banlists twice a year? The game's peak was in those times for multiple reasons. First, you could explore the formats for longer and find more than a couple viable decks, which lead to lower prices overall and more accessibility. Second, if you invested into a deck you knew it was going to be good for quite a while, you didn't need to spend another lump sum of cash on the next best thing after a banlist every couple months. Now if you invest into ryzeal and they kill it in 2 months you have to invest into maliss, if they kill it in 2 months you again have to invest into something else. The same with reprints. Finally when people can afford things they ban them out of existence before letting them enjoy it for a while.
@@EmptyJarDoto Yeah I hate this, even if you can keep up mentally with the constant changes you can't keep up with your wallet.
Even if you can keep up with both there just isn't enough time to enjoy it.
I got locals like once a week and everything changes every two months or so and you either buy the new or fall behind. At which point why even show up? Why even play...
Cards need to have “card scores” and your deck cannot exceed a certain score. At this point it’s the only way I see feasible to even the playing field. Obviously it’s absurd to enforce irl, probably much easier to do digitally.
It seems Konami doesn’t care if people are able to play their game.
One thing that also I feel needs to be discussed is that Konami almost never hits a deck or cards when the cards are expensive but rather when the cards are finally budget, the most recent example being OSS on the last banlist. Snake-eye had been an issue for all of 2024 and was extremely expensive, but when the deck was finally budget and been mostly power crept out of the format, Konami finally killed Snake-eye. The frustrating thing was also that the Diabellstar engine was one of the main selling points of Bonanza
This man always looks like he’s traveling at the speed of light. Love the videos
LMAO 👽
Big props to you and this channel. One of the few channels that actually talks about the elephant in the room (price of the game). I have been removed from IRL playing for about 10 years now. Still keep up with the game. Still a fan of it. I would 100% play this game if it was cheaper. Even if I don't play competitively and just eat loss after loss, I would still have fun. Going to Japan and seeing how cheap the OCG can be is nothing short of criminal to what Konami America is doing.
I seriously thought about making hungry burger nouvelle TCG but stopped as I found out it would be over £100 to make a for fun deck.
I think a meaningful conversation which branches from this becomes: who is konami's target audience? I feel like, due to the proliferation of buying online, the target audience has also shifted away from trying to acquire new players or keep casuals opening packs and instead towards the whales. Online retailers, content creators, etc who buy huge amount of product and then resell it. The irony being that those people are virtually unaffected by the "price" of cards cause they are the ones setting the price or inflating it.
Let's be real, they're targeting people who can't overcome the sunken cost fallacy.
@@joshcruzat3112they can't comprehend sunken cost
The target audience Konami of america (specifically) is targeting with the current marketing practices is solely the competitive population.
@@ryuuohdeltaplus7936 if that were the case, you'd think that their TCG exclusives would have been stronger or lean into propping up meta strategies instead of two waves of a mediocre archetype with a vaguely interesting play pattern and a bunch of pack filler
OCG is pretty much the otaku demography Yu-Gi-Oh product line, every single boxes are always appeal to this demography at some way like suda with Argostar and bao despite it's a box for evil heroes, people who like anime in general not just guy who who watched dragon ball and one piece.
I think TCG pricing is just too predatory, they look at the OCG to see which cards are going to be played (and the cards played are usually low rarity in ocg) then make those specific cards high rarity only for us
@@s4ds4d Vanquish Soul should have been the writing on the wall for more modern players, and for a lot of them, it was, but they still kept buying.
also iirc wasnt maxx C DOWNSIZED TO A rare in the ocg while in the tcg a super pricy card?
It's a common from tactical try deck @@caellanmurphy4751
The hardest part of separating them is that people think with wallets first before mechanics and when people want to play the new expensive decks or engines its puts it back in the for front at least this is my guess but idk also i love the discussion videos you always break down the topics in such a cool and easy way to understand keep it up.
@@legatoxt151 You raise a very important point. If you constantly chase the newest meta deck, it is going to be pricey.
9:14 the you can play it at locals kinda irks me too.
Where I live every locals is just as competitive as the YCSs I’ve been too, most of the players there are strong and committed to yugioh which is why they still go to locals instead of doing anything else.
Yeah I could play suboptimal decks at locals, but going 1-3 or 0-4 for principle isn’t a great feeling.
A bit of perspective to add btw that I dont see anyone talking about. As a video gamer, right, a whole entire video game with hundreds of hours of gameplay, is $60.
I have a friend who is one of my best friends, we've played countless competetive games together, and he just up front is like, "I'm sorry, I'm not paying $1000, which is enough for over 15 full priced AAA video games, every 3 months, to play a card game. That's just not reaosnable at all".
And yeah i mean.. if youre hyper competitive and you know youre gonna wanna test with the best decks as they come out, and chamries alone were $600 for 3 in prerelease, thats just nonsense compared to really any other hobby.
A single Engraver is more money than preordering Civ VII. And that's IF you buy singles. There's no path via Konami to get 3 engravers without spending hundreds and hundreds of dollars.
...some days im so glad yugioh cards are hard to come by here, saves me a lot of money
I agree 100%. I got priced out of Maliss. When they first announced the Archtype, I was so excited because it's based on one of my favorite books, and then I saw the prices. And same thing with Ryzeal, my son loves Xyz decks and Giant Robots, he was super excited for this but again, pricing.
I still agree with something you said a long while back, they need to do like Pokémon, release the same card in common for everyone and then Full Art Super Shiny Rainbow Sparkles for people who love them (with other rarities in-between)
Also, I love discussion video. At the end of the day, we are all fans of the game and want to see it succeed.
The only solution I see is the community coming together for their own events where they can set their own rules and ban lists. It's not great that people can't use certain cards but what can you do when they aren't accessible.
This, Domain-format being a good example. The problem is that cards are still effectively powercrept even without handtraps because even bad cards and support printed for old cards take handtraps into account now so they're not as balanced an option alone either.
The Issue Is them banning Oss just after it got reprinted. Imagine being a kid and buying the newest structure deck, then for them to just ban a core card in the deck one month later after release. Why shouldn't this be the same for booster packs?
OSS was banned for game balance and any experienced player knows that reprints mean busted cards can be banned and i know it hurts to have happen i bought a playset of gamma that was limited 3 days later. However I understand for every player upset by oss ban/gamma limit theyres 20 who were happy. the banlist policies may feel shitty because theyre clearly help push new product but they also are done for the games health. You can have cards stay unbannable for an extra 6 months because you reprinted them if theyre a problem card.
I just started playing the game with friends. We don't care about the meta, we won't buy or play hand traps because those aren't fun (and we won't play in tournaments because there are almost none in our country)
I just bought 3 decks that were kinda meta 10+ years ago for less than forty euro and can't wait to play them against other cheap decks my friends cooked up. For us the price is just right :D
The reason i only play Master Duel and not TCG is 100% because of the price. I am definetly not willing to pay some of the prices these cards go for in the market. But with that said, it annoys me so much that whenever there is a discussion about anything related to yugioh, someone comes out of nowhere to try and change the topic to card prices.
I end up thinking "I get it man, the game is expensive, i agree, but can you chill?"
I tried to establish a budget Yu-Gi-Oh community, where we would just say something like "no card that is currently more expensive than x". Tis way we would play a slightly different meta and do what I like to do always in life - namely buying everything 1 or 2 years after the hype, when it's cheap. However, I couldn't convince anyone of this budget Yu-Gi-Oh-Advanced format.
I'm so glad I play Pokemon, where Fezandipiti EX is a Pokemon that can go in literally any deck you want and get value out of and is one of the strongest cards in the format...is $15.
Joshua's response was genuinely terrible. The comment section to that video is wholly unified in that he misunderstood your main points, refused to interact with them, and went on-and-on about his incorrect perception of the points.
I’ve always been swayed from playing the meta simply from price tag. Any time I competed at my locals it was an anti meta deck to get back at the big man. Now I mostly play GOAT and Edison because of how easy it is build a deck on a budget and still get results.
price is a factor even at a local level. Youre not getting prizing unless you play a top deck there either so its just not worth going to even locals unless you play a top deck
I recently attended a One Piece local that was having their Yu-Gi-Oh local at the same time. In between games, I'd look at their tables to see what people were playing. Ryzeal and Maliss for 3 tables, some packing the Fiendsmith engine.
They should just reprint commons of in demand things into oblivion. Let foil collectors collect. Let people who want to competitively play do so.
Not always true. I won a 26 man local after Rage of the Abyss launched with sharks. I went undefeated against decks like Tenpai, Snake Eye Azamima, Centur-ion, and Yubel. I did it without Dominus Impulse or either of the Mulcharmys. My entire deck cost under $100
@@dumon4264 so no ryzeal or maliss. You beat nurfed decks. All my locals play top meta. Sharks also got support if I'm not mistaken
@n4b5ter41 this was before ryzeal, maliss, or the banlist came out
There is an uncomfortable truth about Yu-Gi-Oh! that many people don't want to acknowledge:
*Yu-Gi-Oh! is **_NOT_** a newcomer-friendly game.*
High price of entry is only one of severals factors keeping casuals from joining.
The information overload, the importance of legacy skill and a lack of official beginner-friendly formats will always discourage new players.
I believe making a "beginner format" comprised of 5 to 8 decks that are very affordable and balanced would be a nice first step towards addressing this problem.
The future of Yu-Gi-Oh might be digital…it’s cheaper, you can craft and it does all the rulings for you for the casual players. To be kinda frank the game doesn’t give out enough to the players that go above and beyond not just by their wallets but their dedication too. There are many variables to this topic but for sure it’s cheaper to just play MD
As someone who's really liked collecting all the decks I enjoy IRL. Playing YGO is only available for me online(MD specifically). And frankly is superior. If they implement more formats and an ACTUAL casual mode and maybe a solo mode that actually has a storyline it can be one of the best YGO games ever(it already is but heck it could be THE best with what I've said).
@ The only thing we can do is try and voice out opinions to Konami about such a thing but I don’t have high hopes of them listening to such a thing unfortunately
I hate playing digital, not to mention MD's format is fucking cap LMAO
All power to y'all but I can't.
@ And that’s totally fine my friend! I agree things on MD need to change but so does the IRL card game and I feel like they are 2 totally different things that need to learn for one another
If MD format is crap then you'll hate OCG even more with most of cards still legal like block dragon. At least be aware that majority of master duel players are OCG players learn to accept that you don't have choice but to follow the majority @@Dark-Law420
i cant wait for everyone to mention the Blue-Eyes structure coming out but notice the Primite Dragon Ether Beryl is $30ish which is still to much for some people
The Primite engine (7 fucking cards) totals out at like 200 bucks.
Lmao
@@Dark-Law420 lordly lode is over 70 rn on tcg, beryl is 30-35. drillbeam is around 5. 305-320 bucks for it atm. the rest of the cards in the deck are 45? blue eyes is a 350+ dollar deck atm.
It’s actually depressing Fiendsmith, Raizeal and Maliss literally power crept basically everything else out of the meta and what should be a budget option is instead gatekept by 2 stupid cards.
I think we need a product like the Speed duel boxes, with many fun decks to play with friends, no meta stuff, but cool stuf, something like thunder dragon, exodia, guardragon, ace striker, dark magician, etc... they could also add some normals to the main sets as support.
I just picked up master duel 8 days ago. Secret packs would have been nice to have been made clear that they show up on crafting a card. First deck I crafted was Labrynth as I'm a bit of an older player who remembers traps being fun. I don't think I'd ever go for offline play as I lived through the soft cheat days. This isn't Yugioh specific but there was a time span from 1990-2010 more or less where people would do small things like shuffle in particular ways to help deck consistency. I'd rather a game control all of that and confirm rules that people would argue over for hours.
I was thinking this the other night. On one hand it's cool Konami does reprints to make the game more accessible. But on the other hand it's still kinda expensive, and they do go down the rabbit hole of killing collectibility. Like SP little knight used to be a $120+ card now it's $5. And that's not even mentioning back a couple of years before Rarity Collection 1. Like 3x pot of prosperity, forbidden droplet, nibiru, lightening storm, triple tactics talent, lava golem. Just those cards off the top of my head when they were like $25-60+ a piece. And not even getting into extra deck cards like accesscode talker
There is certainly some price-gating going on in the game, I don't think that should be controversial to say. A playset of Engraver is like $400 and, like you said, even if I could technically afford that, I'm not willing to drop that much on THREE trading cards. This is just a hobby for me, but it would be nice to be able to use some of the meta cards right away.
The next biggest problem is that when cards finally become affordable cards get banned in a few weeks glad i did not invest into my snake eyes deck when bonanza dropped i created a crystal beast snake eyes when the card's first dropped a year a few months later everything gets affordable just to get banned in couple of weeks i would of quit Yu-Gi-Oh if invested my money just to play it once 🤷🏾♂️🤷🏾♂️🤦🏽♂️🤦🏽♂️ that's terrible the casual player that wants to play a ycs will never get to play just because we can't afford expensive card's shoot then once they reprinted the cards to lose it's value the card most likely get banned or it's going to be irrelvant that's why we haven't gotten an affordable deck's like bystial and Horus
Josh and farfa love this man
Last week at my locals, I was playing the new Glad Beast stuff. Round 1, 2-0d Maliss because I had Rejection and he had only drawn imperm. Round 2, Ryzeal Sharks was able to Fuwaloss me, which led to, Ash, Imperm, and Crossout. The biggest issue with card power and price is that you just get more freedom to stop opponents in different ways, like the lightning storm example. No matter how good I try to be, if I'm trying to climb the hill but the opponent keeps making the hill into a mountain, I'm eventually gonna slide 😂
Last year it was "just win a YCS" to get the cards you need. Now we've gone to "just have more money."
I'm still of the mindset Yugioh should adopt something like Pokemon's rarity system. Make secret rares in Yugioh an alternate rarity for each set rather than the cards being an exclusive rarity. This should definitely make those cards more affordable.
Nexcroz when they first came out my friend spent close to 1k on them and that was in like 2012. With lightsworn combo decks
The solution to the pricing is not just down to konami. Its down to the customers. Dont buy packs. Dont buy singles. Not until they change.
Another problem Konami refuses to fix is rarity in the OCG most cards have multiple rarities while in the TCG they print the same card in ultra or secret rare which forces people to sell these cards at high prices
Going back the topic of another official modern format (like Heart of the Underdog if it were actually supported) the sort of midcore decks that would thrive in a format like that are (generally) cheaper. So if even if you couldn’t afford the cost of entry for advanced format at least you could have a chance at affording a deck in that lower power level format
If I could open a box and be able to use SOME of the 100+ commons i get, that would be great, every set is extremely top heavy.
This is a problem in SO many games, I hate it.
Preach. Commons, uncommons, even many ultras and secrets are just not useful, and I don't mean they're "not meta", I mean they're not good game pieces conducive to fun and synergistic play in Yugioh.
I'm with you 100% on this! It's pretty ludicrous, and it's why I've stopped playing the game, there are better card games with more affordable price points, so I'll watch Yugioh content on RUclips but I'm having fun playing other games.
Honestly, I can't justify having to spend more money for a playset a mulcharmys than I would to buy an entire deck for a game like one piece. Another thing that feels bad about Yu-Gi-Oh cards is that because they are smaller cards compared to most tcgs, meaning that if you play other card games as well, you have to buy sleeves specifically for Yu-Gi-Oh.
Before 2010 I used to look at Yugioh as a game that was not perfect but was great and had amazing potential, and I gladly kept the discussion to card design and effects barring the price. Once I realised the cards, the sets, bans and the meta were inherently designed with the aim to make people buy boxes to find the rare stables and chase cards, while the commons, uncommons etc. were to such a ridiculous degree intentionally useless to further amplify that, I knew that price and card design are interlinked in Yugioh. You just can't divorce the 2 issues if you genuinely want to talk about the why of card design in Yugioh, meaning beyond "so what is good in this meta", and of course that might not be interesting to a primarily competetively centered viewpoint. To a player that feels like they've lost what they loved about the game, or just as well that it has been "held hostage" by the price and design of the game, this is what they care about the most, it's no wonder everyone and their mother brings it up. The building is burning and people are yelling fire, to me it's only reasonable
I started to buy some fakes. I just want to be able to play different archetypes with out forking out so much money. And it gets pretty annoying having to buy multiples structure decks not to mention some decks require extra singles on top. I love the idea of the hero decks their amazing
I have a cheap answer to heroes: deck lockdown.
@blazingfuryoffire1 ?
@blazingfuryoffire1 I'm knew to yugioh so don't understand what you mean? Are you saying the card deck lock down defeats the hero decks easily?
@ yes. Deck Lockdown basically kills any archetypes that search the deck.
"Neither player can add cards from the Deck to their hand except by drawing them. Monsters cannot be Special Summoned from the Main Deck. Destroy this card during your 2nd Standby Phase after activation. "
@@blazingfuryoffire1 interesting 🤔 thanks for that!
I'm looking forward to the new evil twin support and seeing they can accommodate a fiendsmith engine made me so excited until I realised I can't afford it.
Guess it's back to master duel
For me, I see that all card games are expensive. I by no means am willing to spend the money for an engraver core or a set of charmies. The biggest issue i have with ygo procing is that it's products are very one dimensional. The casuals who have their Edison deck and maybe there fun theme cube aren't the ones buying product, thus in order for konami to sell product they have to make opening product seem like a better deal than buying the cards on the secondary market. Thus, the best cards get rarity locked until they are finished selling the set. I personally have no problem as a competitive locals/regionals near me type of player, I can usually trade or get the singles i want, but the problem comes when it's time for konami to balance the game. Everyone treats cards like they are literal stocks, the singles market fluctuates massive based on banlist predictions, and then ultimately someone gets burned. And that's the biggest deal is have and why I don't buy cards for more than $20 a card now. I simply have other hobbies that I would much rather spend that amount of money on. Things like golf memberships, my PC builds, or new firearms that are going to net me way more hours of hobby time than a playset of mulcharmies. The old argument was that these cards hold value over time in games like magic, or in pokemon the investment is in the one cool card and the rest of the deck is pennies. I've considered in 2025 even selling my cards again due to the price. I got back into the game buying 3 fire kings structures and buying some staples. I enjoyed the game in 2024, I enjoy that the average player understands the game is competitive and the pace of the game overall, I love the fiendsmith archetype after trading for my engravers finally, but if I go through 1 more banlist where one of my cards gets banned and the "best deck" doesn't get touched because new support still has to get sold in the next set, im done. Seriously, branded hadn't topped an event since branded fusion was limited, but still puppet ban and we release a meta relevant shifter deck?
I don’t think it’s bad if there are high value cards in TCGs because it’s literally the selling tactics for consumers buying them. Pokémon does it right that they make the same card in different rarities so if you just want to have the card for your deck you can easily get it for a cheap price and if you are more of a collector or a reseller you have the higher rarity’s.
Yugioh though sucks when it comes to building decks in general because even non meta decks there is usually some cards that are secret rare and have a difficult pull rate and/or high price which makes lower powered decks not fun to build.
I think that meta/competitive decks having a high price point and also collector rarity cards makes sense. If yugioh did the multiple rarity like they do in Pokémon and even in OCG, competitive play could be easier for people to get.
I quit playing, I'm just collecting deck cores for now, only I'm not touching any card above 30.
In my experience price is the 2nd biggest barrier to being able to play at a high level and it makes me believe we need a mixed rarity system for all cards. Locking staple cards behind a huge price wall is pretty scummy in my eyes and a missed opportunity. If more players have access to the cards they need then that would help get more people into the game which is a win for players and Konami.
Meta decks aren't the only expensive decks. I wanted to make a Shining Sarcophagus deck to play against my friend who's gettiing the new Blue-Eyes structure deck just to find out that Shining Sarcophagus (only one copy) is $34. Screw that and screw the TCG.
The price tag on this format is actually insane. I can’t justify picking up a new deck and Ryzeal, fiendsmith and Maliss straight crept most of the previously viable decks.
I just want to have a Shining Sarcophagus deck, just because I love the theme. Unfortunately, two of the cards (secret rares) cost roughly AUD$30 each. AUD$180 is too much for me to even consider dropping on 6 pieces of cardboard, especially compared to other hobbies, where the same price can go a lot further. This isn't helped by there not being many shops that stock Yu-Gi-Oh! product in general, but do not have singles, or in the event they do, only for the most recent 2-4 sets, and only in exceedingly short supply.
I have the deck in master duel, and in some ways I'm grateful for master duel, because I can make my silly jank decks with no monetary investment. Some of the jank decks I'd like to have physical decks of, just have one or two cards that are (to me) prohibitively expensive, either due to lack or reprints, or being out of print for years.
Master duel gives me an avenue to actually play with cards I physically sometime can not get my hands on.
That thumbnail is wild lol
The other thing about Master Duel, or actually any Digital Cardgame, once you have a card you can use it in all your decks.
In real life if you want to use a card in more than one deck you'll need X copies for each deck.
While I am one of the rare ones who do, most people are not sitting around making over 50 decks like someone like me does.
Most people have a deck, maybe two, and if they want to build another deck, they'll pull the staples from whatever one they don't intend to play right now.
I don't know why you think this isn't how most people operate.
Even someone like me from time to time is forced to do the same because they can't find more copies of whatever they're looking for at the moment and once again, don't intend to play that other deck right now.
When I still hadn't gotten a full playset of Droll in rare from TAMA, for example, but wanted to use it in a new deck I just pulled my MAGO ones from a deck I wasn't feeling like playing right then until I finally found the other 2.
@RunicSigils My experience is different from yours. I can't talk for most people.
I have the solution, Konami issues a challenge if any team of three can beat their executive team of 3 (with fully custom decks of course) then they will instantly institute the mixed rarity system making the game accessible.
Cards must be accessibe on release, not 12, 8, 6 or 4 months later. I stopped playing tcg years ago because the system is blatantly abusive and they are literally treating you like a second class human being compared to ocg players.
Until we get the same treatment as ocg does I'm never dropping a cent to Konami and I will discourage everyone I can from doing so as well.
"You Can't Talk About Yu-Gi-Oh Without Talking About Price."
That is sometimes true.
Every hobby cost, even (example) running cost money, sense after that you need to use water, soap, and a washing machine, that cost, if not electricity, at least water and laundry detergent (sense you all clotes smell badly). And if you wanna better running experience, you need to buy running shoes, that also cost money.
Sense every hobby cost, that mean that also, every hobby is money investment, more or less (and not everyone can get job or be self-employed person sense everyone are not a same, even we all are humans,,,i think).
Talking about price of hobby, is not new thing, at least not for me.
price will become a semi factor with me because my yugioh existence is solely to troll locals
13:03 Oh, don't worry.
I bet that Konami will start at some point release reprint sets in Master Duel, because reprint sets has been part of YGO almost always.
Top players often come off as out of touch. For me seeing tenpai get hit so quickly left a bad taste in my mouth because it was the only budget option. Meanwhile expensive decks are left untouched
TLDR (because I did rant lol) - *Some people are just too privileged and ignorant lol.*
I know people will pay what they want to pay, but the addiction side of things is also a problem for sure. Too many normies are just ok with how things are even when they're getting screwed themselves. This goes for all things finance and society in general, not just yugioh. And people who haven't experienced a certain problem always fail to understand and lack empathy. They just tell you "oh suck it up, don't be addicted. Just stop being poor." That's what grinds my gears lol. When people think "oh if its good for me then it must be good in general."
Another banger
Ive been looking at real looking proxies because i want to play blue eyes this format. I would say thats my favorite deck of all time if not, then adamancipators. I usually play with friends and ive had this thorn about using fake cards as a nono but with the price of some cards like that one spell from the primite engine that was like 2 or 3$ at most and now its a 70 or 80$ card was the straw that broke my wallet. Im not about to spend the same amount of money that a switch 2 would cost for 5 or 6 pieces of shiny cardboard.