They definitely had a lot of pitch/bitumen and we sometimes find remains of bowls with pitch in them, so this is a good option. Pitch can harden pretty well, but I would think it would let loose from too much working on the held object. And if you want to carve multiple sides, you'd have to re-set it many times. But then again, they had a lot of time and dedication so they could do that.
@@artifactuallyspeakingI work for a lapidary jeweler. While pitch bowls are very good for holding objects, and would possibly work, I find it more likely that for polishing things like this they may have used a version of what we call a "dop stick". Basically a small stick with a blob of adhesive that mixed wax with something like bitumen. This essentially gives you a handle to more finely manipulate small objects.
@@artifactuallyspeakingGoldsmith here, pitch can be mixed with other greasy things (cow fat is sometimes used) to make it more elastic and less brittle. To "drive" (not sure if that is the right word in English, it means shaping a metal sheet with a punch) metal usually is done using a bowl filled with gravel with a layer of this pitch mixture on top. This supports the metal with just enough "give" to shape it very precisely. So it is hard but not brittle. And the metal can easily removed from it (just warm it up with a gentle flame) and flipped over to work it from the other side for sharper linework etc. So repositioning an object is something you learn to live with 😊.
It's so wonderful to see these artefacts and have you talk about them. So much more engaging than a simple museum display, bringing them to life for us. Thank you for that. I have a great respect for the peoples who made these items - we always think of historic peoples in such a stark, no-nonsense way and these items remind us they were just people like us, with whimsical and artistic flair that we can appreciate even now.
Wow, I just now watched this little series you did with Milo. I could watch these all day long! Great concept for a video format to teach us about these artifacts. You could bring on a guest Archeologist's and have him/her guess what he's holding and teach us all about these amazing artifacts you gained access too. Perhaps other popular RUclips Ancient Historians could get to play as well! Not every day you get to touch a beautiful piece of art that is 7k years old!
Yes, I'm trying to make a series like this, but there's a lot of bureaucracy required to get the necessary permissions. I hope to make more with guests looking at objects with me!
@@artifactuallyspeaking That's great and hopefully you'll have a lot of good luck with those processes! I'm not sure how fleshed out your ideas for the series going forward are but if you're interested in ideas you could maybe get people from somewhat different disciplines or specialties and show them things that you're familiar with and see how they apply their own practices to it and they could then do the same for you. This could show how having knowledge in a similar subject can help or hurt compared to (I assume) the generally less formally trained viewers.
Yes, I hope so too. This was the last of the objects we looked at when he came by last time and hopefully he will come again. Even if he can't, I'm looking at doing more of this type of video where I look at objects with a guest.
@@artifactuallyspeaking I would totally volunteer for that! I have great skill in looking at cool things and asking semi-ignorant questions. Seeing your museum is definitely on my bucket list.
could it be that the fish medallion is a fishing sinker? I don't know anything about the history of fishing or how much it weights, but it looks like a modern fishing sinker, just with different material
Maybe a bit too intricate for something as easily lost as a sinker. I'd expect a heavy, soft material like lead in a simple ball shape for the job. A polished carving I would rather place around the neck as a fisher. Keep them safe and close to heart as I work with my arms.
I'm sure, if there were any possibility at all, they would have mentioned it between them but my first thought for the first one was that it looked like a fishing lure. It was weird to me that Milo didn't ask 'Could it have been a lure?' and Brad didn't say 'We don't think it could have been a lure because...' though.
I hadn't thought about a lure since it's pretty heavy and doesn't have hooks directly on it. We do use sinkers on some lines these days and we do have fish hooks from the Bronze Age, but no evidence of lures. I suppose I had assumed they would use live bait and that a carved stone fish would not attract enough attention for a fish to bite at it. Still, it is an interesting possibility to think about.
I would guess that when it comes to fishing and learning it from wise people that came out of the water, that was a result of trade, there have been many different methods to fish, spearfishing, nets, fishing poles etc etc. So a culture had developed one kind of fishing and then they came in contact with another culture that had developed another way of fishing, through trade which was often done by boats. They didnt share a language so they couldnt name the people that had showed them another way of doing it so they became wise men that came out of the water and taught them how to fish. But in reality i think it was another way of fishing that they didnt know about. I mean if it was marshes they fished it, it was probably spear fishing which is time consuming and really hard to do, they were showed fishing poles with a very thin rope and showed how to do it, it would revolutionize their fishing, no more standing very still for hours on end peering into the water instead the fish came to them as they used bait. Or maybe they were taught to tie a little twig near the end of the line so the bait didnt sink to the bottom and be hidden in silt.
Yes, rather than gaining life-giving food from the rivers and marshes, it might also represent gaining trade goods and knowledge from people traveling by water.
"they couldnt name the people that had showed them another way of doing it so they became wise men that came out of the water and taught them how to fish." This is definitely worth considering, IMO.
It was so fun last time, let's do it again! My unedited thoughts as they come below: 0:59 Agreeing with what Milo said already. In the closeup there are some highlights in the eye sockets. I can't tell if it's reflection, dust, or a wear pattern indicating an adhesive was there (gem set eyes?). Though, in all likelihood these were long ago so well cleaned it may be impossible to tell. 1:18 I suppose it may also have been attached to nets for the same purposes Dr. H mentions here. I presume they used jute, but I don't know what size rope was used (and thus whether it would have attached directly to the net or be hanging from it via additional threads). I doubt it would have been used as a weight, considering the comparative weight of net itself. Besides luck, it could also have been used as some sort of indicator. Does it float? Is it "bait?" Even if they didn't know it was acting as bait, this could be why it was "lucky." 2:45 Having seven Apkallu sages reminds me immediately of the saptarishi, the Vedic seven sages, who are represented in the seven stars of the big dipper. They brought the Vedas (and thus "all wisdom") to mankind. We see it carrying a bucket/basket/"bag." I'm curious, what does it contain. Will look more into this topic later as I recall other bucket carrying figures who brought wisdom. I really enjoyed this video trilogy. I think this idea could be a seed idea for an even better full series
I imagiune the fish medallion could have to do with status. Someone would wear it to signal he can provide fish, knowledge or it could be given to the pearson who catched the most fish that day/ week... or it could be some sort of debt/payment 2 fish were owed plus 4 carvings on the side? ...so many possibilitys...
As other viewers have mentioned, holding objects like that in place for carving has been done with a bowl of pitch by jewelers for thousands of years
They definitely had a lot of pitch/bitumen and we sometimes find remains of bowls with pitch in them, so this is a good option. Pitch can harden pretty well, but I would think it would let loose from too much working on the held object. And if you want to carve multiple sides, you'd have to re-set it many times. But then again, they had a lot of time and dedication so they could do that.
@@artifactuallyspeakingI work for a lapidary jeweler. While pitch bowls are very good for holding objects, and would possibly work, I find it more likely that for polishing things like this they may have used a version of what we call a "dop stick". Basically a small stick with a blob of adhesive that mixed wax with something like bitumen. This essentially gives you a handle to more finely manipulate small objects.
@@artifactuallyspeakingGoldsmith here, pitch can be mixed with other greasy things (cow fat is sometimes used) to make it more elastic and less brittle. To "drive" (not sure if that is the right word in English, it means shaping a metal sheet with a punch) metal usually is done using a bowl filled with gravel with a layer of this pitch mixture on top. This supports the metal with just enough "give" to shape it very precisely. So it is hard but not brittle.
And the metal can easily removed from it (just warm it up with a gentle flame) and flipped over to work it from the other side for sharper linework etc. So repositioning an object is something you learn to live with 😊.
It's so wonderful to see these artefacts and have you talk about them. So much more engaging than a simple museum display, bringing them to life for us. Thank you for that. I have a great respect for the peoples who made these items - we always think of historic peoples in such a stark, no-nonsense way and these items remind us they were just people like us, with whimsical and artistic flair that we can appreciate even now.
Wow, I just now watched this little series you did with Milo. I could watch these all day long! Great concept for a video format to teach us about these artifacts. You could bring on a guest Archeologist's and have him/her guess what he's holding and teach us all about these amazing artifacts you gained access too. Perhaps other popular RUclips Ancient Historians could get to play as well! Not every day you get to touch a beautiful piece of art that is 7k years old!
Yes, I'm trying to make a series like this, but there's a lot of bureaucracy required to get the necessary permissions. I hope to make more with guests looking at objects with me!
@@artifactuallyspeaking Thanks for the update! I hope your able to pull it off it will be a real treat if you can. Good luck!
@@artifactuallyspeaking That's great and hopefully you'll have a lot of good luck with those processes!
I'm not sure how fleshed out your ideas for the series going forward are but if you're interested in ideas you could maybe get people from somewhat different disciplines or specialties and show them things that you're familiar with and see how they apply their own practices to it and they could then do the same for you. This could show how having knowledge in a similar subject can help or hurt compared to (I assume) the generally less formally trained viewers.
Thanks for collaborating with Milo. Bringing different generations together in a common interest is always wise.
I love these short informative glimpses we get! I hope Milo can come by more times and look at this wonderful collection of artifacts.
Yes, I hope so too. This was the last of the objects we looked at when he came by last time and hopefully he will come again. Even if he can't, I'm looking at doing more of this type of video where I look at objects with a guest.
@@artifactuallyspeaking I would totally volunteer for that! I have great skill in looking at cool things and asking semi-ignorant questions. Seeing your museum is definitely on my bucket list.
I truly love these small objects that tell of the average person.
I could honestly watch you both bouncing knowledge & ideas off each all day long. These videos have been super interesting.
I'm really appreciating these videos. Thank very much.
Loving this series
I found this channel through Miniminuteman and i'm glad I did!
Dr. Brad, You should make videos more regularly. RUclips needs you and I am sure RUclips algorithm will like you too.
I have a bunch I'm working on and hope to start releasing again soon. Editing takes a long time, but I do enjoy it!
I agree!!!!
@@artifactuallyspeaking I am very much looking forward to your videos in the works!
could it be that the fish medallion is a fishing sinker? I don't know anything about the history of fishing or how much it weights, but it looks like a modern fishing sinker, just with different material
Maybe a bit too intricate for something as easily lost as a sinker.
I'd expect a heavy, soft material like lead in a simple ball shape for the job. A polished carving I would rather place around the neck as a fisher. Keep them safe and close to heart as I work with my arms.
@@MrHodoAstartes fair
I was also thinking it could be attached to a net, not as a sinker, but for "luck." What just seemed lucky could have actually been acting as bait.
I watch Milo funny to see him here
Milo led me to you!
Great series!!!
I'm sure, if there were any possibility at all, they would have mentioned it between them but my first thought for the first one was that it looked like a fishing lure.
It was weird to me that Milo didn't ask 'Could it have been a lure?' and Brad didn't say 'We don't think it could have been a lure because...' though.
I hadn't thought about a lure since it's pretty heavy and doesn't have hooks directly on it. We do use sinkers on some lines these days and we do have fish hooks from the Bronze Age, but no evidence of lures. I suppose I had assumed they would use live bait and that a carved stone fish would not attract enough attention for a fish to bite at it. Still, it is an interesting possibility to think about.
@@artifactuallyspeaking You flatter me! :)
❤
Your channel is so nice 😊
very interesting stuff, thanks for sharing, prof
I would guess that when it comes to fishing and learning it from wise people that came out of the water, that was a result of trade, there have been many different methods to fish, spearfishing, nets, fishing poles etc etc.
So a culture had developed one kind of fishing and then they came in contact with another culture that had developed another way of fishing, through trade which was often done by boats. They didnt share a language so they couldnt name the people that had showed them another way of doing it so they became wise men that came out of the water and taught them how to fish. But in reality i think it was another way of fishing that they didnt know about.
I mean if it was marshes they fished it, it was probably spear fishing which is time consuming and really hard to do, they were showed fishing poles with a very thin rope and showed how to do it, it would revolutionize their fishing, no more standing very still for hours on end peering into the water instead the fish came to them as they used bait. Or maybe they were taught to tie a little twig near the end of the line so the bait didnt sink to the bottom and be hidden in silt.
Yes, rather than gaining life-giving food from the rivers and marshes, it might also represent gaining trade goods and knowledge from people traveling by water.
"they couldnt name the people that had showed them another way of doing it so they became wise men that came out of the water and taught them how to fish."
This is definitely worth considering, IMO.
Maybe they used a simple spoon mule type idea to hold the pieces.......
Clicksping has a couple of videos in which he makes an ancient style vice and drill for his Reconstruction of the Antikythera mechanism
It was so fun last time, let's do it again! My unedited thoughts as they come below:
0:59 Agreeing with what Milo said already. In the closeup there are some highlights in the eye sockets. I can't tell if it's reflection, dust, or a wear pattern indicating an adhesive was there (gem set eyes?). Though, in all likelihood these were long ago so well cleaned it may be impossible to tell.
1:18 I suppose it may also have been attached to nets for the same purposes Dr. H mentions here. I presume they used jute, but I don't know what size rope was used (and thus whether it would have attached directly to the net or be hanging from it via additional threads). I doubt it would have been used as a weight, considering the comparative weight of net itself. Besides luck, it could also have been used as some sort of indicator. Does it float? Is it "bait?" Even if they didn't know it was acting as bait, this could be why it was "lucky."
2:45 Having seven Apkallu sages reminds me immediately of the saptarishi, the Vedic seven sages, who are represented in the seven stars of the big dipper. They brought the Vedas (and thus "all wisdom") to mankind. We see it carrying a bucket/basket/"bag." I'm curious, what does it contain. Will look more into this topic later as I recall other bucket carrying figures who brought wisdom.
I really enjoyed this video trilogy. I think this idea could be a seed idea for an even better full series
I imagiune the fish medallion could have to do with status. Someone would wear it to signal he can provide fish, knowledge or it could be given to the pearson who catched the most fish that day/ week... or it could be some sort of debt/payment 2 fish were owed plus 4 carvings on the side? ...so many possibilitys...
A bowl of pitch holds small work.
Minuteman attitude is humm...
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