I believe that both are important for you to achieve the balance. If you are just only forward growth, your face will look narrow in the front and you may get some difficulties to breathe through your nose because your airway is still narrow (and maybe you cannot mewing properly cause not having enough palatal space for your tongue). In this case, I think you need to improve horizontal growth to expand your airway and your palate also. Another relevant idea is mewing is not just about putting your tongue forward, it is also about spreading your tongue to the whole palate (means forward and both the left and the right).
I have skeletal class 3, but it's mild with about 2mm discrepancy, and my maxillary incisors have proclined to compensate for it. I tend to pull my mandible back to achieve normal occlusion and that stresses out my TMJ. Do you think getting MSE with reverse pull headgear would work out for me?
Thanks for the reply! The last orthodontist I consulted provides MSE. He said I need horizontal maxillary expansion because my upper arch is narrower, but in order to straighten my teeth he wants to remove 4 premolars and retract the arches. I'm honestly super confused. I don't want to extract any of my teeth but he says that's my best bet.
Hey! Thanks again for replying! I realise that it's a hype... I went to another dentist- he's a holistic dentist, and he said that I should avoid extractions and that I don't need any transverse expansion as my occlusion is good, but my maxilla is slightly deficient anteroposteriorly, so my maxillary incisors have proclined. But he doesn't think MSE works for maxillary advancement though, and said I should just let my teeth be the way they are now :|
I feel we should care less about the opinion or approval of others....if you want to wear FaceMask in public for the betterment of your long-term health, hell, I say you should go for it...might be embarrassing but who cares? Thicken that skin boi
@@JawHacks Do you have a video explaining the downsides and pro's on toothborne expanders? Where i live there is no MSE available and i have been offered a toothborne one, with the claim that it will expand my palate, even for my age, but also possibly split the suture.....i am in serious doubt about this and my knowledge on this is not good.....But since MSE is unfortunately out of possibility for me it leaves no other option......Thank you and the others for your responses, appreciate it very much
@@esh3325he has a video about bioblock. There is no upside to toothborne expanders. Only complications. He himself had a toothborne expander once and took years to fix the complications from it.
I don't feel like this is legitimate, where would be the anchor? The anchor HAS to be in the bone, and the angle of pulling has to be positive enough (to get a good aesthetic result). The only reasonable and realistic anchor can be MSE itself (or any other similar expander), but the placement of MSE does not allow for a good angle, you're essentially pulling downwards. There is NO ortho that will okay using a facemask anchored to an MSE, it's not a standard procedure.
I'm going to get MSE my age is 19 , mse provider is very experienced. I have edge to edge and anterior cross bite . I also have deviated nasal septum. Which headgear you recommend for wearing? Normal headgear or crane ?
Hi... I'm considering MSE and face mask for my underbite. I'm from India and I haven't been able to find an MSE provider here. Can you point me in the direction of one?
I don’t trust what this guest is saying. First of all, he’s completely wrong in supporting the use of standard facemask. A face mask is used to PULL your maxilla forward. In order to do this, it has to PUSH off of something. That “something” is your forehead and chin. The face mask is pushing your chin and your forehead towards your spine. Exactly opposite what you would want. People, Ignore this guest if you want to do the right thing. Ron, I don’t understand why you put such faith in this guest’s words… you have far more logic and knowledge than this guest. Trust yourself!
@@JawHacks, because you asked: ;-) It just seems like he’s trying to pull the wool over everyone’s eyes with the way he’s dressed, and lighting up that cigarette. It doesn’t appear that he is truly smoking that cigarette. It’s all a show. I just become skeptical of people that come off as fake. I’m not saying everything he says is wrong. In fact, most of what he says makes sense, but that’s how some people trick you. They take a bunch of facts and mix in some questionable statements, and you believe the whole thing as gospel. Most of what he is saying appears to be true, but if he doesn’t fill the gaps with “conditionals” the general statements he sometimes makes, probably can’t stand true on their own. You guys talk about teeth not being in contact, therefore “falls” due to gravity. I think there’s some question as to “cause-and-effect“ I think it’s more likely that it’s “falling occurs first” that causes non-contact of opposing teeth, (non-muscular use…The “falling” causes teeth to not contact. I’m guessing this is probably how the term “SlackJaw” came into effect ;-) Confusing centimeters with millimeters (several times) Hmm. 🤔 He uses the term “crows feet” as a substitute for “dark circles under eyes” hmm. 🤔 At 24:15 He says “Doing orthodontics on a kid is unnecessary” …He also says “overbites correct themselves if left alone”. I think most people would disagree with these generalized statements . If the REASON the overbites formed is not corrected, the overbite will continue to persist. Overbites will NOT correct themselves if the SOURCE of the problem is not corrected. 26:30 he says “Extractions are definitely going to give you migraines”. I don’t agree with this “absolute” statement. 28:15 “Most people that do drugs and alcohol is from craniofacial dystrophy”. I would have to question this statement as well. 1:13:50 you say “imagine if everyone had more testosterone?“ …as if that’s a good thing, and as-of it’s that simple. If everyone had more testosterone, the world would be in constant battle. It’s the “balance of estrogen” that allows you to actually sit back and analyze things with your brain, before instinctually jumping-in and pummeling someone’s face. I’m convinced that if we lowered the “general testosterone level” in world leaders, we would have less wars. I’m not claiming that as scientific fact, but it just makes sense to me. I am thinking that if more women were seated in areas of power, there would be less wars. A balance of testosterone and estrogen in areas of power ;-)
@OrthotropicsEnthusiast , 1. I agree with most of what you were saying. Not because YOU were saying it, but because it is what I concluded after years of study, and it coincides with my beliefs as well. That’s pretty good, because I am a very detailed person, and listen to every word that is spoken. So we are almost cheering on the same bench for the same team. 2. But there are still specific items/statements which you make, with which I do not agree: you state it might be best to wait until jaw growth is complete before evaluating to see if orthodontics is needed…In certain cases, orthodontics USES GROWTH to its advantage, in order to advance the lower jaw. This could potentially avoid the need for surgical intervention to advance the jaw in the future. You also state that rubber bands inhibit vertical and horizontal jaw growth. Well, wouldn’t inhibiting vertical jaw growth be an “advantage” in this epidemic of “long faces”. Where orthodontic treatment has a tendency to increase vertical dimension anyway? A reduction in vertical growth would be a welcome change from the long facial growth that is occurring in the presence of the “epidemic of mouth-breathing”. You state that orthodontic patients are consistently uglier after orthodontics. I’ve seen many more people that DIDNT have Ortho treatment and are uglier because of it. (The lack of it). Take for instance the stereotypical European mouth, where they lack the orthodontic intervention they have here in the US. They are arguably less attractive from a dental perspective overall. 3. Citing a few studies to support your viewpoint doesn’t make it “true” ie. One can always find studies to support a certain viewpoint. So spouting off a study here or there doesn’t impress or sway my opinion. A single study may open my eyes, but it it’s not enough to “convince”. 4. The main point I was trying to get across is that your interview was reposted in segments, and it appeared to me that by doing this, he didn’t want people to miss a word from the interview. Ie. To me, by doing this “reposting”, it appeared that he was worshiping everything you were saying. Little did I know, this was a trend that he just started. To my knowledge, it started with your interview. So, hindsight is 20/20. Now, I realize he may not have been worshiping you, but instead, just found a new technique to get more viewers/views to his channel. Or found a different way to highlight each topic discussed. Which it ok. 5. The most important thing that needs to get out there is the fact that the skeletal facial growth is dictated EARLY-ON by diet for the most part. Natural breast feeding only, and tougher foods when the child starts to eat solid foods is EXTREMELY important to allow space for tongue, nasal breathing, proper upper and lower jaw growth and ideal facial function and beauty. Doing all this should allow people the best chances to avoid the need for orthodontic treatment all-together.
@@tjam4229 Pretty interesting on the fact you said testosterone can boost violence and wars in leaders. You could be right. But for myself personally, I used to fap alot and eat like shit and my testosterone was shit. I tend to be really aggressive and be mad at everything surround myself. But when I started going to gym, doing sports and eating right. I felt strong and good but also calm and the things that used to annoy me doesnt bother me anymore.
@@beorf4910 , I’m sure every case is different. Your aggression may have been linked to “self-esteem”, instead of testosterone. Feeling/knowing you are overweight, and feeling like you aren’t in control, would make just about anyone angry. Losing weight and gaining control back probably put your testosterone and mental health back to “normal”. Just look at people that take excess testosterone…both women and men…ever hear of “Roid-Rage”? It’s a real thing.
I think forward growth is more important than horizontal growth- for me at least
Horizontal makes breathing easiee
I believe that both are important for you to achieve the balance.
If you are just only forward growth, your face will look narrow in the front and you may get some difficulties to breathe through your nose because your airway is still narrow (and maybe you cannot mewing properly cause not having enough palatal space for your tongue). In this case, I think you need to improve horizontal growth to expand your airway and your palate also.
Another relevant idea is mewing is not just about putting your tongue forward, it is also about spreading your tongue to the whole palate (means forward and both the left and the right).
And counter clockwise rotation
Too much essentially results in overbite/buck teeth/teeth sticking out of lips
Is it possible to get results for adults?
I have skeletal class 3, but it's mild with about 2mm discrepancy, and my maxillary incisors have proclined to compensate for it. I tend to pull my mandible back to achieve normal occlusion and that stresses out my TMJ. Do you think getting MSE with reverse pull headgear would work out for me?
Thanks for the reply! The last orthodontist I consulted provides MSE. He said I need horizontal maxillary expansion because my upper arch is narrower, but in order to straighten my teeth he wants to remove 4 premolars and retract the arches. I'm honestly super confused. I don't want to extract any of my teeth but he says that's my best bet.
Hey! Thanks again for replying! I realise that it's a hype... I went to another dentist- he's a holistic dentist, and he said that I should avoid extractions and that I don't need any transverse expansion as my occlusion is good, but my maxilla is slightly deficient anteroposteriorly, so my maxillary incisors have proclined. But he doesn't think MSE works for maxillary advancement though, and said I should just let my teeth be the way they are now :|
@@amalkaveyou could do a small transverse expansion and then max out headgear
I feel we should care less about the opinion or approval of others....if you want to wear FaceMask in public for the betterment of your long-term health, hell, I say you should go for it...might be embarrassing but who cares? Thicken that skin boi
@Aidan Hauser unreasonable termination.
So would have facemask have some benefits even if only done for 8-10 hours ?
Ron, what are your thoughts on the hyrax expander and biobloc expander, both for 40 year olds? (Apologies if i should not ask this here)
I don't ever recommend toothborne expanders as a primary source of expansion for adults.
@@JawHacks Do you have a video explaining the downsides and pro's on toothborne expanders? Where i live there is no MSE available and i have been offered a toothborne one, with the claim that it will expand my palate, even for my age, but also possibly split the suture.....i am in serious doubt about this and my knowledge on this is not good.....But since MSE is unfortunately out of possibility for me it leaves no other option......Thank you and the others for your responses, appreciate it very much
@@esh3325he has a video about bioblock. There is no upside to toothborne expanders. Only complications. He himself had a toothborne expander once and took years to fix the complications from it.
I don't feel like this is legitimate, where would be the anchor? The anchor HAS to be in the bone, and the angle of pulling has to be positive enough (to get a good aesthetic result).
The only reasonable and realistic anchor can be MSE itself (or any other similar expander), but the placement of MSE does not allow for a good angle, you're essentially pulling downwards.
There is NO ortho that will okay using a facemask anchored to an MSE, it's not a standard procedure.
It is pretty standard
Hey I will get mse do u know were I can go in a Houston ?
Lemke orthodontics in Sugarland
I'm going to get MSE my age is 19 , mse provider is very experienced. I have edge to edge and anterior cross bite . I also have deviated nasal septum. Which headgear you recommend for wearing? Normal headgear or crane ?
Hi... I'm considering MSE and face mask for my underbite. I'm from India and I haven't been able to find an MSE provider here. Can you point me in the direction of one?
Update?
update?
Can SFOT reopen extraction spaces for the mandible?
Possibly, but only with someone who has lots of experience combing SFOT and expansion (such as Dr. Richard Roblee perhaps).
I have a bit forward maxilla ( I got 8 teeth extracted by dentist 4 pre and 4 molar), I want to ask how makes jaw catch up to the upper jaw/maxilla?
Omggg 8?
Good advice
Damn I really wanna use facemask but don’t want that dang overjet and don’t have a better plan right now lol, unfortunate. I could really benefit.
It is what it is bro
@@JawHacks True that
How uncomfortable are the face masks? I can still work my online job with it assuming it’s not uncomfortable
For a chin (and forehead) yeah, mine is inflamed and in pain, but maybe wouldn’t happen if I put cotton pads or something
any updates since its been 4 months? How did it go was it worthwhile? @@MB-su4tr
Would someone above 40 benefit from headgear?
I don’t trust what this guest is saying. First of all, he’s completely wrong in supporting the use of standard facemask. A face mask is used to PULL your maxilla forward. In order to do this, it has to PUSH off of something. That “something” is your forehead and chin. The face mask is pushing your chin and your forehead towards your spine. Exactly opposite what you would want.
People, Ignore this guest if you want to do the right thing.
Ron, I don’t understand why you put such faith in this guest’s words… you have far more logic and knowledge than this guest. Trust yourself!
The Bow facemask pushes off the chest. The Crane pushes off the neck. What other parts do you disagree with?
@@JawHacks, because you asked: ;-)
It just seems like he’s trying to pull the wool over everyone’s eyes with the way he’s dressed, and lighting up that cigarette. It doesn’t appear that he is truly smoking that cigarette. It’s all a show.
I just become skeptical of people that come off as fake.
I’m not saying everything he says is wrong. In fact, most of what he says makes sense, but that’s how some people trick you. They take a bunch of facts and mix in some questionable statements, and you believe the whole thing as gospel.
Most of what he is saying appears to be true, but if he doesn’t fill the gaps with “conditionals” the general statements he sometimes makes, probably can’t stand true on their own.
You guys talk about teeth not being in contact, therefore “falls” due to gravity.
I think there’s some question as to “cause-and-effect“
I think it’s more likely that it’s “falling occurs first” that causes non-contact of opposing teeth, (non-muscular use…The “falling” causes teeth to not contact.
I’m guessing this is probably how the term “SlackJaw” came into effect ;-)
Confusing centimeters with millimeters (several times)
Hmm. 🤔
He uses the term “crows feet” as a substitute for “dark circles under eyes” hmm. 🤔
At 24:15 He says “Doing orthodontics on a kid is unnecessary” …He also says “overbites correct themselves if left alone”. I think most people would disagree with these generalized statements . If the REASON the overbites formed is not corrected, the overbite will continue to persist. Overbites will NOT correct themselves if the SOURCE of the problem is not corrected.
26:30 he says “Extractions are definitely going to give you migraines”. I don’t agree with this “absolute” statement.
28:15 “Most people that do drugs and alcohol is from craniofacial dystrophy”. I would have to question this statement as well.
1:13:50 you say “imagine if everyone had more testosterone?“ …as if that’s a good thing, and as-of it’s that simple.
If everyone had more testosterone, the world would be in constant battle. It’s the “balance of estrogen” that allows you to actually sit back and analyze things with your brain, before instinctually jumping-in and pummeling someone’s face. I’m convinced that if we lowered the “general testosterone level” in world leaders, we would have less wars.
I’m not claiming that as scientific fact, but it just makes sense to me. I am thinking that if more women were seated in areas of power, there would be less wars. A balance of testosterone and estrogen in areas of power ;-)
@OrthotropicsEnthusiast ,
1. I agree with most of what you were saying. Not because YOU were saying it, but because it is what I concluded after years of study, and it coincides with my beliefs as well. That’s pretty good, because I am a very detailed person, and listen to every word that is spoken. So we are almost cheering on the same bench for the same team.
2. But there are still specific items/statements which you make, with which I do not agree: you state it might be best to wait until jaw growth is complete before evaluating to see if orthodontics is needed…In certain cases, orthodontics USES GROWTH to its advantage, in order to advance the lower jaw. This could potentially avoid the need for surgical intervention to advance the jaw in the future. You also state that rubber bands inhibit vertical and horizontal jaw growth. Well, wouldn’t inhibiting vertical jaw growth be an “advantage” in this epidemic of “long faces”. Where orthodontic treatment has a tendency to increase vertical dimension anyway? A reduction in vertical growth would be a welcome change from the long facial growth that is occurring in the presence of the “epidemic of mouth-breathing”. You state that orthodontic patients are consistently uglier after orthodontics. I’ve seen many more people that DIDNT have Ortho treatment and are uglier because of it. (The lack of it). Take for instance the stereotypical European mouth, where they lack the orthodontic intervention they have here in the US. They are arguably less attractive from a dental perspective overall.
3. Citing a few studies to support your viewpoint doesn’t make it “true” ie. One can always find studies to support a certain viewpoint. So spouting off a study here or there doesn’t impress or sway my opinion. A single study may open my eyes, but it it’s not enough to “convince”.
4. The main point I was trying to get across is that your interview was reposted in segments, and it appeared to me that by doing this, he didn’t want people to miss a word from the interview. Ie. To me, by doing this “reposting”, it appeared that he was worshiping everything you were saying. Little did I know, this was a trend that he just started. To my knowledge, it started with your interview. So, hindsight is 20/20. Now, I realize he may not have been worshiping you, but instead, just found a new technique to get more viewers/views to his channel. Or found a different way to highlight each topic discussed. Which it ok.
5. The most important thing that needs to get out there is the fact that the skeletal facial growth is dictated EARLY-ON by diet for the most part. Natural breast feeding only, and tougher foods when the child starts to eat solid foods is EXTREMELY important to allow space for tongue, nasal breathing, proper upper and lower jaw growth and ideal facial function and beauty. Doing all this should allow people the best chances to avoid the need for orthodontic treatment all-together.
@@tjam4229 Pretty interesting on the fact you said testosterone can boost violence and wars in leaders. You could be right. But for myself personally, I used to fap alot and eat like shit and my testosterone was shit. I tend to be really aggressive and be mad at everything surround myself. But when I started going to gym, doing sports and eating right. I felt strong and good but also calm and the things that used to annoy me doesnt bother me anymore.
@@beorf4910 , I’m sure every case is different. Your aggression may have been linked to “self-esteem”, instead of testosterone. Feeling/knowing you are overweight, and feeling like you aren’t in control, would make just about anyone angry. Losing weight and gaining control back probably put your testosterone and mental health back to “normal”. Just look at people that take excess testosterone…both women and men…ever hear of “Roid-Rage”? It’s a real thing.
will the mandible advance to follow the maxilla's forward growth?
In adults no. Only with kids
For adults, only to the extent that the TMJs allow it (i.e. only if your mandible is recessed in the joint to start).
@ZAbdulZ did you use an FM?
@@JawHacks how can u tell this?
If someone has a deep bite I believe so
Is it possible to split the mid palatial suture at 30
Mike mew said it is possible till age of 25,
@ZAbdulZ yes, u can try with sharp object and high momentum
With an MSE, sure.
Yes. I'm 31 and my mse successfully split my mid palatial suture.
@@johnelbertubayquelnat7946how much expansion were you able to get