For ground effect operation: The CG should be at 30% chord measured back from the leading edge of the root chord @ BL 0.0. This is the location I use on most of my airplanes and should be good for most delta wings of similar planform geometry. For free flight out of ground effect operation: Without polyhedral tips or large V tails, the model will be spirally unstable. (Slow roll off.) The model designs I have shown in the video do not perform well out of ground effect.
This is a good concept and a good base for my crazy ideas, think i'll start up a taxi service at some time if i can get things moving in my direction. Have too many ideas lol, but it's possible :)
I'm sorry John does not have a website or plans for his GEVs. If you listen carefully on the video, he gives a good enough description on the build that, if you build your own, you're chances of success are good.
I think it would be fun to make these designs using cardboard. I wish I could find dimensions for these models. I'd happily pay for a copy and sign any non-disclosure or licensing agreements documents. Beautiful designs. I wonder what the efficiency for carrying significant loads is? It is better to fly a regular plane, or use the ground effect?
It's an academic question, I suppose, but I'm wondering why people keep using the term _"ground_ effect", when that is specific to solid ground, despite the fact that most of these operate over water. Why not use _"surface_ effect" more uniformly?
Fascinating. I wonder how it goes when expanding the cockpit width area so as to carry a greater payload or become more functional as a rec vehicle. Would love plans for these models.
¡Excellent!. Gentlemen, thank you very much for this amazing video, I want to ask you something, ¿where i can get the plans for these models?. Thank you.
The information he provides is just not enough for a build. I'm interested. I would like more information at 5.14 in the video. He goes over the wing ratios as 10, 15 20, 25 "which could be more than that" I see the marks on the wing at the fuselage but I can not read the notation there. @5.22. How thich is the fuselage?
Beautiful ones! I've experimented ground effect with my rc 3 channel coaxial helicopter. When the battery weakens, the craft don't crash, it bounces and keep hovering about 4 inches high. To me it was unexpected, I've seen little or no description about WIG in helicopters. Do you have any example or description? Thanks for the video.
Love these concepts. If even a possibility, I'd like to see a company build a large hybrid luxury ground effect vehicle that could double as a boat during rough water/storms. If it could be safe & maintain stability over standard to moderate waves/troughs it could give the cruise ship industry a competitor since it could travel much faster & possibly have less maintenance costs associated w/ the wear & tear seen from salt water. I doubt it could come close to holding nearly as many passengers & I personally have no idea if it'd even be achievable physically or if it'd be cost effective. Still, if I had the money, I'd pay a little extra for that incredible experience of flying on top of the ocean & knowing I'd be able to spend more time at the destination. Would be amazing to experience.
Since ground effect height is related to the wingspan, wouldn't it be desirable to try to use a wider wing, or does that compromise stability or some other characteristic?
Hey, I've made one of these and it looks just like your ones, but i haven't tested it yet. Before i do I wondered if you need any nose weight and should it fly slightly if i hand launch it?
Thanks, It works great, but only on very smooth surfaces, I just need to scale it up for it to work on asphalt but it's still a good model. Also do you have any footage of the free flight/ground effects model?
would a modified motorcycle have adequate power weight ratio to create one of these also would a variable wing span increase altitude significantly or does that relegate my dream to sci fi?
Part of the reason I'm here is I"m interested in trying to build a "microlight" ( less than 150 pounds ) version of this. Something that could cruise along at 30-45 mph. carrying one person. That shouldn't be too horribly expensive to build. Still working on design. I built R.C. models for years and flew light planes and para-gliders and have been wanting to do a wig project for several years. Though with the models he is using in this demonstration it would be problematic mounting a motor to them unless it was on a pod above the fuselage. I was planing to use the motor prop assembly from a powered paraglider in a pusher configuration. I would prefer using a 4cycle motor with a Q-tip pusher prop since it would be a lot less noisy but the only ones I have come up with are either way too heavy or very expensive so I will stick with the 2cycle to begin with. I figure it should be an interesting project.
Im happy to find someone else who is trying to build a ultra light plane, which is also why im here. It was 2 mounths ago when you replyed and it would been intresteing to know what you have done, because im searching for information and tips from other people! Pls contact me if you have anything to share.
To fly a ground effect craft requires skill which are beyond those a of an ultra light or a three axis pilot. The behaviour of these craft at take off, flying in GE and above and splash down is different. I am speaking about proper GE craft, not bad or irrational design of pretentious ignorants.
The lightest single seater you could build would be about 500 pounds in empty weight, with a 40hp engine. You would as well need knowledge and experience of a minimum of one decade in the specific field. Without it, you would represent a danger to yourself and other. If really interested, have a look at www.brunodemichelis.com Besides writing that encyclopaedia, I have spent over 40 years in the specific field, built 118 working models and 2 full size working craft.
hi there, What would happen if i moved the t-tail directly onto the craft without this extension cause it looks like it would add a lot of weight or is it necessary for balancing the vehicle? also in wich way would you design the x113 model with polyhedral wings? like two downward angles or a downward and then upward angle shaped like a W? Hope you could answer my questions cause im planning on building one in full scale. oh and is there a design that absolutely cant leave the ground effect? cause of legal reasons
simon becker Q1: Yes, it is for balance. Q2: If polyhedral, either way can work. If you choose the W shape make sure you close out the anhedral portion underneath so the suction is maintained. Q3: John explains how you can keep it in ground effect with a large enough tail angled correctly. It depends on your release speed.
nice so you were able to hear everything first hand. there are not many people who have that knowlege since it is an unconventional technology. already searched in the entire library in stuttgatt and found nothing about that topic. heavily underrated technology. do you know any books or websites that provide data about the effects of ground effect planes? fluid mechanics and so on
I would love to build a two person craft like this but I have not been able to find any design prints. It there any available....I cannot seem to find any help at all....I have a custom cabinet shop and can build this all out of wood and then glass it if I need too....
My dads plane actually seats 2 people. Hard to tell from the video. It's certainly not a comfy 2nd row. I doubt the plans are available. Fighter Eacort Wings is the company out of Ardmore, OK. They haven't existed for years but you can find blogs online. They might have more useful info. All the best!
That is a fine comment, but as a genius (no boasting bologna, its just how some of us are born), I am pretty uncertain of that as a real fact. I (who am honest when I say, I think I am amongst the highest of intelligence levels) am very complicated sometimes and despite my intentions, I feel that my intelligence makes me cynical more often than pleasant. It may have nothing to do with intelligence, but honestly speaking, I feel like my genius causes chronic depression. I am certainly noble to the best of my capacity (if anyone were to steal and read my personal journal), it would be obvious, but just being friendly makes me uneasy. I imagine that there are probably thousands of geniuses throughout the world, who understand what I mean, and I think it is a birth trait. I think, sometimes, geniuses are more like statues than men (they do not really understand emotions very well). Btw: I am not saying I'm an important genius, but I was just using myself as an example, because it is the only one I have. I apologize if this comment is in anyway offensive, or such, to anyone. And this statement, is merely in reflection of my own perception. I have not met enough people (that this would apply to) to pretend I have any extensive evidence about what I said.
Legion Long A real genius is friendly to anything . Until the entity proves threatening . Cynicism causes depression , your outlook can be handled mechanically by simply laughing at everything . Nobody likes cynical depressed people . So a real genius puts up with life's insults and their own cynicism by making it a big joke . Which life really is . We laugh at jokes as we appreciate it's context . You probably question the joke ? Which is good , but fake a laugh if you have to , otherwise it's poor tactics . Something a genius like you should have already in his arsenal , " Tactics ".
It's a quibble, but I really wish that people would stop using the term "ground effect". After all, most of these are intended to be operated over water, rather than the ground. Calling them "wing in surface effect" makes much more sense.
Problem is, that's not the case. The ground effect is very week that far from the ground. That's why they tend to make them as part-boats, water is pretty flat. Still pretty dangerous, if a part of a wing got caught at high speed, the craft would disintegrate.
Why not form airbrakes near the rear of the vehicle, and create the plane to fly under normal conditions such as the CP and CG set for level flight the when ready to take off the Cp would stay behind the CG and wouldn't flip over!
Of interest here: The effects seem to work better as you scale up. Though it would get a bit more difficult to throw the ground glider if it was too large. Your feet would get in the way... :) (Maybe shoot it with rubber?)
@sigrana I think you take it too seriously (again). These are just free flight models, not manned vehicles. They works great. They don't have to turn, and there is no real take off. Lippisch denied the validity of his reverse-delta theory... There is a lot of well functioning model and manned Lippisch-type WIGs so I don't get it. Perhaps he is "lacks real knowledge of ground-effect", but he built several great Lippisch-type glider... Gabriel
Isn't the wing in ground effect the same effect that causes things like sheets of paper and playing cards to sometimes seemingly ignore friction and float when pushed on flat tables?
Hi, I am working on a new Discovery Channel series featuring ground effect vehicles. We are very interested in speaking to John Schuster about his expertise and models. I have tried the email address above and had no reply. Can you help me contact him. Thanks, Matt.
The UH18m or 19 are NOT ground effect craft: they are badly designed pseudo-aircraft trying to fly on the stall at all times. Their non-performance is evident and they are nearly impossible to trim. A total rip-off.
I am obsessed with GEVs since I found this video. Thanks to John Schuster fo his great work, and thanks to HavenMade for the video.
I need to ask John to put his plan on the web. Looks like you're not the only one who wants plans for these models.
Yes
For ground effect operation: The CG should be at 30% chord measured back from the leading edge of the root chord @ BL 0.0. This is the location I use on most of my airplanes and should be good for most delta wings of similar planform geometry.
For free flight out of ground effect operation: Without polyhedral tips or large V tails, the model will be spirally unstable. (Slow roll off.) The model designs I have shown in the video do not perform well out of ground effect.
Nice one guys! I flew my 1/18th scale PAR WIGEC in 1991 - 2 electric motors and she achieved 55 mph indoors.
Great video.
Thanks for sharing!
@sauruv - yes, the wing provides enough lift in ground effect and the T-tail provides pitch stability, otherwise the GEV would tend to porpoise.
Gorgeous.
Simply.
Gorgeous.
This is a good concept and a good base for my crazy ideas, think i'll start up a taxi service at some time if i can get things moving in my direction.
Have too many ideas lol, but it's possible :)
I'm sorry John does not have a website or plans for his GEVs. If you listen carefully on the video, he gives a good enough description on the build that, if you build your own, you're chances of success are good.
Awesome video . Thanks for posting
Woooow wonderful and fabulous video 😊😊😊🎉🎉🎉
Two questions...what happens in rough water? What happens if a wing tip touches?
I was worried at 5:55 as it rolled to starboard but that puppy autoleveled ‘like a boss’
I think it would be fun to make these designs using cardboard. I wish I could find dimensions for these models. I'd happily pay for a copy and sign any non-disclosure or licensing agreements documents. Beautiful designs. I wonder what the efficiency for carrying significant loads is? It is better to fly a regular plane, or use the ground effect?
WIGE is a completely brilliant largly unexploited property of aerodynamics.
I built one of the larger ones out of foamboard from Dollartree or my grandson a few years ago they work great
Underrated tech
This guy is awesome
It's an academic question, I suppose, but I'm wondering why people keep using the term _"ground_ effect", when that is specific to solid ground, despite the fact that most of these operate over water. Why not use _"surface_ effect" more uniformly?
Fascinating. I wonder how it goes when expanding the cockpit width area so as to carry a greater payload or become more functional as a rec vehicle. Would love plans for these models.
A nice demonstration of Ground Effect. As the name says: one has to be nearly the Ground not High on the air.
¡Excellent!.
Gentlemen, thank you very much for this amazing video, I want to ask you something, ¿where i can get the plans for these models?.
Thank you.
can these model/toy craft be bought from somewhere??
MostlyLoveOfMusic more of a find the sweet spot when trying different concepts. DIY would be the rite answer.
I’m doing a science fair project on ground effect and I need to make one. Anyone know where I can get templates or instructions?
Some years ago I discovered that the circular covers of certain one cup coffee filters will act as ground effect gliders.
Excellent.
The information he provides is just not enough for a build. I'm interested. I would like more information at 5.14 in the video. He goes over the wing ratios as 10, 15 20, 25 "which could be more than that" I see the marks on the wing at the fuselage but I can not read the notation there. @5.22. How thich is the fuselage?
Beautiful ones! I've experimented ground effect with my rc 3 channel coaxial helicopter. When the battery weakens, the craft don't crash, it bounces and keep hovering about 4 inches high. To me it was unexpected, I've seen little or no description about WIG in helicopters. Do you have any example or description? Thanks for the video.
Love these concepts. If even a possibility, I'd like to see a company build a large hybrid luxury ground effect vehicle that could double as a boat during rough water/storms. If it could be safe & maintain stability over standard to moderate waves/troughs it could give the cruise ship industry a competitor since it could travel much faster & possibly have less maintenance costs associated w/ the wear & tear seen from salt water.
I doubt it could come close to holding nearly as many passengers & I personally have no idea if it'd even be achievable physically or if it'd be cost effective. Still, if I had the money, I'd pay a little extra for that incredible experience of flying on top of the ocean & knowing I'd be able to spend more time at the destination. Would be amazing to experience.
Since ground effect height is related to the wingspan, wouldn't it be desirable to try to use a wider wing, or does that compromise stability or some other characteristic?
A wider span would increase lateral stability, but make it less maneuverable.
Every time you make a larger wing you generate a little bit more drag, so I think they simply made a compromise between stability and efficiency
Ground effect height is mainly related to the mean aerodynamic chord. The longer the better.
Thank you
One of those models from Lippisch is now beeing produced in Singapore.
Where can i find some plans to test these planes?
Hey, I've made one of these and it looks just like your ones, but i haven't tested it yet. Before i do I wondered if you need any nose weight and should it fly slightly if i hand launch it?
Great video, nice work!
It will be even nicer to have this same video Re-Done on HD...
Thanks, It works great, but only on very smooth surfaces, I just need to scale it up for it to work on asphalt but it's still a good model. Also do you have any footage of the free flight/ground effects model?
Are the plans available ? Because I would like to build few with my pupils.
The fluid analysis you have done? Is access to information can be found?
Who is working on this today?
would a modified motorcycle have adequate power weight ratio to create one of these
also would a variable wing span increase altitude significantly or does that relegate my dream to sci fi?
At higher speeds, could exactly the same shape fly at higher altitudes?
Do you or the gentleman talking in your ground effect video (perhaps its you, i dont know) offer plans or a kit for them? If not do you sell them?
How will they perform in a terrain with lots of hills? or on a water surface with huge waves?
I'm nothing like an expert, but from my reading of the relevant literature, the answer would be "poorly"; either scenario would be problematic.
Liked and suscribed.
Nice toys
I wish an ultra light manufacturer would work on this concept.
Part of the reason I'm here is I"m interested in trying to build a "microlight" ( less than 150 pounds ) version of this. Something that could cruise along at 30-45 mph. carrying one person. That shouldn't be too horribly expensive to build. Still working on design. I built R.C. models for years and flew light planes and para-gliders and have been wanting to do a wig project for several years. Though with the models he is using in this demonstration it would be problematic mounting a motor to them unless it was on a pod above the fuselage.
I was planing to use the motor prop assembly from a powered paraglider in a pusher configuration. I would prefer using a 4cycle motor with a Q-tip pusher prop since it would be a lot less noisy but the only ones I have come up with are either way too heavy or very expensive so I will stick with the 2cycle to begin with. I figure it should be an interesting project.
Im happy to find someone else who is trying to build a ultra light plane, which is also why im here. It was 2 mounths ago when you replyed and it would been intresteing to know what you have done, because im searching for information and tips from other people! Pls contact me if you have anything to share.
Dave may ey small boat builders and ultra lite builders soulful et together on this
To fly a ground effect craft requires skill which are beyond those a of an ultra light or a three axis pilot. The behaviour of these craft at take off, flying in GE and above and splash down is different. I am speaking about proper GE craft, not bad or irrational design of pretentious ignorants.
The lightest single seater you could build would be about 500 pounds in empty weight, with a 40hp engine. You would as well need knowledge and experience of a minimum of one decade in the specific field. Without it, you would represent a danger to yourself and other. If really interested, have a look at www.brunodemichelis.com Besides writing that encyclopaedia, I have spent over 40 years in the specific field, built 118 working models and 2 full size working craft.
I want to make a remote controlled version
No, I'm afraid we don't know of a book where you can dive into this like the video shows. That's one reason we did the video.
Very impressive and interesting .Like a WIG glider ? Wales UK
Nice Demonstration..
hi there,
What would happen if i moved the t-tail directly onto the craft without this extension cause it looks like it would add a lot of weight or is it necessary for balancing the vehicle? also in wich way would you design the x113 model with polyhedral wings? like two downward angles or a downward and then upward angle shaped like a W?
Hope you could answer my questions cause im planning on building one in full scale.
oh and is there a design that absolutely cant leave the ground effect? cause of legal reasons
simon becker Q1: Yes, it is for balance. Q2: If polyhedral, either way can work. If you choose the W shape make sure you close out the anhedral portion underneath so the suction is maintained. Q3: John explains how you can keep it in ground effect with a large enough tail angled correctly. It depends on your release speed.
thanks for the answer, helped a lot
did you take part in the experiments?
simon becker No, I just shot the video.
nice so you were able to hear everything first hand. there are not many people who have that knowlege since it is an unconventional technology. already searched in the entire library in stuttgatt and found nothing about that topic. heavily underrated technology. do you know any books or websites that provide data about the effects of ground effect planes? fluid mechanics and so on
what if i want to go up 100 ft
where is he located please
I would love to build a two person craft like this but I have not been able to find any design prints. It there any available....I cannot seem to find any help at all....I have a custom cabinet shop and can build this all out of wood and then glass it if I need too....
My dads plane actually seats 2 people. Hard to tell from the video. It's certainly not a comfy 2nd row. I doubt the plans are available. Fighter Eacort Wings is the company out of Ardmore, OK. They haven't existed for years but you can find blogs online. They might have more useful info. All the best!
Extremely intelligent people are most often good natured.
That is a fine comment, but as a genius (no boasting bologna, its just how some of us are born), I am pretty uncertain of that as a real fact. I (who am honest when I say, I think I am amongst the highest of intelligence levels) am very complicated sometimes and despite my intentions, I feel that my intelligence makes me cynical more often than pleasant. It may have nothing to do with intelligence, but honestly speaking, I feel like my genius causes chronic depression. I am certainly noble to the best of my capacity (if anyone were to steal and read my personal journal), it would be obvious, but just being friendly makes me uneasy. I imagine that there are probably thousands of geniuses throughout the world, who understand what I mean, and I think it is a birth trait. I think, sometimes, geniuses are more like statues than men (they do not really understand emotions very well). Btw: I am not saying I'm an important genius, but I was just using myself as an example, because it is the only one I have. I apologize if this comment is in anyway offensive, or such, to anyone. And this statement, is merely in reflection of my own perception. I have not met enough people (that this would apply to) to pretend I have any extensive evidence about what I said.
Legion Long A real genius is friendly to anything . Until the entity proves threatening .
Cynicism causes depression , your outlook can be handled mechanically by simply laughing at everything .
Nobody likes cynical depressed people .
So a real genius puts up with life's insults and their own cynicism by making it a big joke .
Which life really is .
We laugh at jokes as we appreciate it's context .
You probably question the joke ?
Which is good , but fake a laugh if you have to , otherwise it's poor tactics .
Something a genius like you should have already in his arsenal , " Tactics ".
+John Storrs I have known several smart assholes and lots of good natured not-so-bright folks.
do you have any 3d printer plans
I just modeled a reverse delta wing craft. I can send the .stl to you or an .stp
That was awesome
It's a quibble, but I really wish that people would stop using the term "ground effect". After all, most of these are intended to be operated over water, rather than the ground. Calling them "wing in surface effect" makes much more sense.
I know this is a pretty old video but does anyone know how to get a hold of Mr. Schuster or know of another site for these vehicles he builds?
Can those type of aircraft fly forever if nothing stops it?
It needs fuel
Busy building one now. Kind of looks like a ghost bike from Halo.
Ground effekt ist ein lippisch Effekt :)
Where can I get plans!?!?!
I have designed a reverse delta wing craft in Fusion 360. I can send you the file.
@@jasoncriss193 I would love the fusion files myself, please!
hi ..
where can I find some drawings with dimensions. would like to try to make a wig craft.
What happens to the captured air in higher sea states
steering?
For mass transit a large ground effect vehicle seems viable if it could fly high enough to avoid objects like trees & power lines
Problem is, that's not the case. The ground effect is very week that far from the ground. That's why they tend to make them as part-boats, water is pretty flat. Still pretty dangerous, if a part of a wing got caught at high speed, the craft would disintegrate.
how do u build one??
sooo cool. do more! power it electric! thanks for share
Why not form airbrakes near the rear of the vehicle, and create the plane to fly under normal conditions such as the CP and CG set for level flight the when ready to take off the Cp would stay behind the CG and wouldn't flip over!
Tyler H is there a paperwork Incan get to grips with the maths? and physics please?
The doc illustrate very well the ground effect...now change the scale..perhaps something "more big"
Of interest here: The effects seem to work better as you scale up. Though it would get a bit more difficult to throw the ground glider if it was too large. Your feet would get in the way... :) (Maybe shoot it with rubber?)
What is the series called?
Having fun!
How can I make one of these? Is there a plan somewhere?
cut a foam or paper,make it an airfoil shape wing body lift design,balance find the center of gravity of the aircraft.then booom thats it!
@sigrana
I think you take it too seriously (again). These are just free flight models, not manned vehicles. They works great. They don't have to turn, and there is no real take off. Lippisch denied the validity of his reverse-delta theory... There is a lot of well functioning model and manned Lippisch-type WIGs so I don't get it. Perhaps he is "lacks real knowledge of ground-effect", but he built several great Lippisch-type glider...
Gabriel
did any one ever get plans to building one of these models
+Steven Millican I just built one from watching the video .
how is waching in 2020 me!!!!
Isn't the wing in ground effect the same effect that causes things like sheets of paper and playing cards to sometimes seemingly ignore friction and float when pushed on flat tables?
Probably, or something similar
YES! AWESOME!
Please visit to INDONESIA promote this product to Presiden Jokowi
what is the song that plays at start and end
It's been so long I don't remember. It came with the Pinnacle Studio video software I was using back then.
Oh right. Thanks anyway
Also from the game Red Alert
if you dig that dark retro-futuristic cyberpunk vibe (when the future was still cool
very nice I like
good in smooth surface..what happens if there's a rogue wave with a height of 50 ft?
Airfish 8 by WIGETWORKS
having fun in cantina
I have made plans for my Delta 2 ground effect glider (pdf link is in the description). Check out my channel for other free flight and RC GEV videos.
Hi,
I am working on a new Discovery Channel series featuring ground effect vehicles. We are very interested in speaking to John Schuster about his expertise and models. I have tried the email address above and had no reply. Can you help me contact him.
Thanks,
Matt.
Discovery Channel has a GE series ?
verygood
I like ekranoplan
@metalheds - you can reach John at f22schuster@cox.net
Make a skateboard that can fly.
Is that you mcfly?
If he wants a website, let me know, I will build it for free in exchange for brain picking
😃 Muy bueno 😃
oula mais bonjours d'abord!
นี่ก็เป็นอีกโครงการหนึ่งเราจะใช้แทนเรือในทะเลเมดิเตอร์เรเนียนเดินทางระหว่างแอฟริกายุโรป
the suspensiont car will caming
The UH18m or 19 are NOT ground effect craft: they are badly designed pseudo-aircraft trying to fly on the stall at all times. Their non-performance is evident and they are nearly impossible to trim. A total rip-off.
Well they were in ground effect and they looked like they were gliding just fine
great designs love the info just amazes me how airfoils and how it works.
สุดยอดมากมันต้องมีสักแบบที่เราต้องการอย่างมาก