Twist or sheild all of 'em. Fast pulsed dc is pretty much ac. Induced or transmitted, its best to keep it reduced. High current ac or dc like stepper and spindle cables will transmit hard. Keep them away from any signal or sense lines and power to anything powering them. Cat cables are resililent more due to the protocols than just the twist. Non solid core Cat 5-6 is great for signal. Gives you loads of spares to. Remember to star ground signals.
Thanks Sirus. I think I am doing okay in the twisted pairs, shielding and star ground. Putting everything through one hole was dumb but I'll see if the gods of EMI let me get away with it.
@@RotarySMP Some prefer one hole. Mostly the more power and/or frequency requires seperate holes. But if it's just for a short stint, I'm sure she'll suffer it. It shows up more the more load she gives on the spindle, as more juice is flowing. If there's room, wiggle a finger in there and feed a sense wire thru. Looped to a 10ohm resistor, scope or meter it to see if you have any seepage.
@@RotarySMP Signal are easy to star ground as usualy they won't get a ground via mecanical attachment. The spindle will get a loop ground from somewhere regardless and I would recomend for saftey it's grounded hard anyways. ass long as there are no loops on signal grounds, you should be golden.
I would recommend making sure you have _some_ ventilation inside those two control cabinets. At least some where the PC is in... They can heat up if you have it on for a while all enclosed. Good luck!
@@RotarySMP Fanless computers still require ventilation-- they are assumed to be in a room with enough passive airflow. If you keep them in a small box with constrained airflow, they can get hot. They work, but will fail a lot sooner and/or will crash if you leave them on for too long. If you really want to know, put a thermistor in the box while it's on and see if the temperature peaks or not. Good luck!
It’s probably not relevant here, but I once twisted the power cables between a small lead acid battery and a circuit board (where a fuse was fitted). One day when fault finding, I forget to disconnect the battery when unscrewing the twisted pair from the circuit board. I was careless and touched the screwdriver shaft to the chassis as the tip was on the positive terminal of the screw terminal block. In a flash the wire got red hot, so I pulled the screwdriver out, but it was too late.....the insulation on the twisted pair wires evaporated and maintained the dead short even after removing the screwdriver. Smoke was pouring out the unit and the only way to stop it was to dive in with a pair of wire cutters - lesson learnt - don’t twist wires together on any power supply that is capable of delivering serious current!
I've been binging this playlist. For a few episodes now it's been bothering me that the switch and power seems to be on the back, where I expect a wall =)
Thanks for watching. You have a few more to go :). Because of the motor placement, there will be a gap to the wall so you can easily reach behind to turn it on.
Mesaflash ought to be available from the LinuxCNC repository, no need to install git and compile it. The package is here: www.linuxcnc.org/dists/buster/base/binary-amd64/ (Should be automatically installed with the next release)
For your VFD enable signal issue: I'm assuming from your diagram and from you saying "pull-down" resistor that the enable pin needs a voltage to switch on, correct? What is the signal voltage? I assume the VFD has an internal pull-down resistor of some unknown value, since usually leaving inputs "floating" results in erratic behavior where the smallest static charge can tickle the input on, or make it unable to shut off when the signal is turned off. You might be able to put another high-resistance resistor in series with your enable pin. We already know it'll switch on with 2 Mohms resistance. Try adding a couple 1M resistors in series between the signal cable and enable pin and see how that goes. That would halve the "off" current/voltage and may bring it below the trigger level. Would be the cheapest fix, and the best I can do without knowing more about the VFD.
That is a good suggestion thanks. Turns out that PCW of Mesa spotted my dumb mistake immediately... forum.linuxcnc.org/26-turning/38280-pimping-the-mini-lathe?start=170#176927 Thanks for watching.
No. I used it. Based on my limited knowledge of electrics for a smoothing capacitor like that, there is no disadvantage from having too much capacitance, as long as the voltage rating exceeds the local voltage. Wouldn't be the first time I was completely wrong though :)
@@RotarySMP when such a small value cap is specified its probably for spike suppression. A "type" is often specified, like ceramic? which is low impedance to the transients. maybe keep in the back of your mind if you get interference issues . . but hey its working right! I've enjoyed every video. You've done a mighty job. Something i've only been able to dream about.
Why don't you use the analog VFD control? Or the MESA 7i96 don't have it? (i bought the 7i76E and there are a spindle analog connection) For Spindle control you can connect to MESA output pins CW CCW Spinle-on, or Enable (in PncConf) I told you, that the power wire and the signal wire through one hole not the best solution. (you can have a lot of electrical noises)
Yes, the 7i96 doesn't have an analog output, that is why I needed that little PWM -Anlog board. It only cost €10 from amazon, and seems to work well. I already have everything planned around that hole. Guess I'll have to address noise issues if they occur. Lessons learnt to be applied to whatever the next machine is. Thanks for watching.
Yep, PCW Spotted it immediately. A better solution is to RTFM! forum.linuxcnc.org/26-turning/38280-pimping-the-mini-lathe?start=170#176927 Funny how tht is.
THe 7i96 has six SSR. I am only using three. PCW from Mesa took one look at what I did, and pointed out the dumb mistake... forum.linuxcnc.org/26-turning/38280-pimping-the-mini-lathe?start=170#176927 Thanks for watching.
5:22 very bad idea to twist the wires this way. When you turn the wire ends around the centerline you also should rotate the wires in the opposite direction.
Not necessary, PCW from Mesa pointed out my dumb mistake immediately ... forum.linuxcnc.org/26-turning/38280-pimping-the-mini-lathe?start=170#176927 Thanks for watching.
Concerning the switching. Why not some relays that are controlled by the Mesa card.... I know it's not elegant. Edit, should have read the rest of the comments. You got a solution.
NPN versus PNP describe how transistors (or similar devices) take input signals and generate output signals. There's a good tutorial here: www.learningaboutelectronics.com/Articles/Difference-between-a-NPN-and-a-PNP-transistor Also ... It's usually far better to communicate with your VFD using RS485, rather than logic-level signals. If your VFD supports it, you can find cheap USB-RS485 dongles on Amazon, eBay, etc.
That is the keyboard I use for the MAHO. I am usng it now on the lathe as it is convenient, but have a little wired industrial KB to integrate with the minilathe. While using the blue tooth one, I'll just keep the door open and move to the end. Thanks for watching.
What a journey it's been, not gonna lie, I'll be sad when it's done.
Thanks for sharing,
Cheers
Thanks for watching. It feels like I am in the 90% finished, 90% to go loop.
This guy King Midas, and his whole channel is gold. 👍
Thanks for the positive response. I appreciate it.
Thanks for the silver video. The fact that you are willing to show the mistakes, is a boon to us mere mortals. Keep safe and stay well.
Thank for the feedback Colin. Without the mistakes, I wouldn't have much footage :)
@@RotarySMP My Father always said. A man that has not made a mistake, has not made anything.
@@nikond90ful1 A wise man.
Love your work, thanks for documenting the process. Music was interesting too.
Thanks forthe feedback. Thanks for watching.
Twist or sheild all of 'em. Fast pulsed dc is pretty much ac. Induced or transmitted, its best to keep it reduced. High current ac or dc like stepper and spindle cables will transmit hard. Keep them away from any signal or sense lines and power to anything powering them. Cat cables are resililent more due to the protocols than just the twist. Non solid core Cat 5-6 is great for signal. Gives you loads of spares to. Remember to star ground signals.
Thanks Sirus. I think I am doing okay in the twisted pairs, shielding and star ground. Putting everything through one hole was dumb but I'll see if the gods of EMI let me get away with it.
@@RotarySMP Some prefer one hole. Mostly the more power and/or frequency requires seperate holes. But if it's just for a short stint, I'm sure she'll suffer it. It shows up more the more load she gives on the spindle, as more juice is flowing. If there's room, wiggle a finger in there and feed a sense wire thru. Looped to a 10ohm resistor, scope or meter it to see if you have any seepage.
@@RotarySMP Signal are easy to star ground as usualy they won't get a ground via mecanical attachment. The spindle will get a loop ground from somewhere regardless and I would recomend for saftey it's grounded hard anyways. ass long as there are no loops on signal grounds, you should be golden.
@@UberAlphaSirus SO just a loop of wir with both ens connected to the leads of a 10Ohm resister, and then scope on each of those leads?
@@UberAlphaSirus I brought of the signal wire shielding back to the single main star ground. Thanks for your Input.
Ah, I see your problem, you've got your system configured as a Mini Lathe, you need to configure it as a Minila The.
Good spotting. TOT named it and the name is Minila the. Thanks for watching.
woo new episode i love this series man good work
Thanks for watching.
I would recommend making sure you have _some_ ventilation inside those two control cabinets. At least some where the PC is in... They can heat up if you have it on for a while all enclosed. Good luck!
I use a low powered single board computor without a fan. See to be fine so far.
Thanksfor watching.
@@RotarySMP Fanless computers still require ventilation-- they are assumed to be in a room with enough passive airflow. If you keep them in a small box with constrained airflow, they can get hot. They work, but will fail a lot sooner and/or will crash if you leave them on for too long. If you really want to know, put a thermistor in the box while it's on and see if the temperature peaks or not. Good luck!
@@purpleidea Good point, because I sure am not going to redo that box if I don't have to :)
Very good video looking forward to completion and operation. Cheers
You and me both. Thanks for watching.
It’s probably not relevant here, but I once twisted the power cables between a small lead acid battery and a circuit board (where a fuse was fitted).
One day when fault finding, I forget to disconnect the battery when unscrewing the twisted pair from the circuit board. I was careless and touched the screwdriver shaft to the chassis as the tip was on the positive terminal of the screw terminal block. In a flash the wire got red hot, so I pulled the screwdriver out, but it was too late.....the insulation on the twisted pair wires evaporated and maintained the dead short even after removing the screwdriver. Smoke was pouring out the unit and the only way to stop it was to dive in with a pair of wire cutters - lesson learnt - don’t twist wires together on any power supply that is capable of delivering serious current!
Good input that. Thanks.
I've been binging this playlist. For a few episodes now it's been bothering me that the switch and power seems to be on the back, where I expect a wall =)
Thanks for watching. You have a few more to go :).
Because of the motor placement, there will be a gap to the wall so you can easily reach behind to turn it on.
I engineer displays... 4K joke made me laugh out loud.
Thanks. I underestimated the time it would take render 4K.
Mesaflash ought to be available from the LinuxCNC repository, no need to install git and compile it.
The package is here: www.linuxcnc.org/dists/buster/base/binary-amd64/
(Should be automatically installed with the next release)
Thanks Andy. Turns out it was installed, but an earlier version.
16:50ish - using tweezers to move jumpers ... long nose pliers will save you a lot of annoyance :)
Thanks for the tip.
I know I'm late to comment. But twisted pair is great idea to reduce signal noise.
Thanks for the feedback.
@@RotarySMP feedback. ha!
@@Darth_Firebolt :)
Evening, 'drinks tea' you appear to allow Mint pull down some updates ;-)
Thanks for watching.
For your VFD enable signal issue:
I'm assuming from your diagram and from you saying "pull-down" resistor that the enable pin needs a voltage to switch on, correct? What is the signal voltage?
I assume the VFD has an internal pull-down resistor of some unknown value, since usually leaving inputs "floating" results in erratic behavior where the smallest static charge can tickle the input on, or make it unable to shut off when the signal is turned off.
You might be able to put another high-resistance resistor in series with your enable pin. We already know it'll switch on with 2 Mohms resistance. Try adding a couple 1M resistors in series between the signal cable and enable pin and see how that goes. That would halve the "off" current/voltage and may bring it below the trigger level. Would be the cheapest fix, and the best I can do without knowing more about the VFD.
That is a good suggestion thanks. Turns out that PCW of Mesa spotted my dumb mistake immediately...
forum.linuxcnc.org/26-turning/38280-pimping-the-mini-lathe?start=170#176927
Thanks for watching.
Grommets for the wire insertion holes?
I didn't, but should have.
@@RotarySMP Love you logo .. looks very Biliaong - 1980's when I had a visit to Australia .. A bit of electrical tape will do.
I maybe a bit slow . . but were you joking about the 1uf cap replacing the 47pf ?
No. I used it. Based on my limited knowledge of electrics for a smoothing capacitor like that, there is no disadvantage from having too much capacitance, as long as the voltage rating exceeds the local voltage. Wouldn't be the first time I was completely wrong though :)
@@RotarySMP are they data lines or power?
@@ihateemael The Stepe motor phase winding wires. So power.
@@RotarySMP when such a small value cap is specified its probably for spike suppression. A "type" is often specified, like ceramic? which is low impedance to the transients. maybe keep in the back of your mind if you get interference issues . . but hey its working right! I've enjoyed every video. You've done a mighty job. Something i've only been able to dream about.
@@ihateemael Another pin popping my bubble of ignorant bliss :) I appreciate your feedback.
On your switch problem maybe have the Mesa bord controll a good old contact relay that controlls the vfd?
Thanks, but it was just an RTFM fail. Covered in the next video.
15:35 maybe using a relay is a possible solution
You will have seen the solution in the next video.
@@RotarySMP yes you are right
Do you mind sharing the hal and ini file? I have the same MESA card but have not installed it. Great to follow you're work.
I will. I'll probably post it a few times to here, as I edit it...
forum.linuxcnc.org/26-turning/38280-pimping-the-mini-lathe
Thanks for watching.
I've seen many high end speaker cables and power cables braided for RFI cancellation so why not for a CNC lathe
I figured it cant hurt. Thanks for watching.
Why don't you use the analog VFD control?
Or the MESA 7i96 don't have it? (i bought the 7i76E and there are a spindle analog connection)
For Spindle control you can connect to MESA output pins CW CCW Spinle-on, or Enable (in PncConf)
I told you, that the power wire and the signal wire through one hole not the best solution. (you can have a lot of electrical noises)
Yes, the 7i96 doesn't have an analog output, that is why I needed that little PWM -Anlog board. It only cost €10 from amazon, and seems to work well.
I already have everything planned around that hole. Guess I'll have to address noise issues if they occur. Lessons learnt to be applied to whatever the next machine is.
Thanks for watching.
A rather 18th century solution would be to drive a reed relay from the Mesa enable output. But there has to be a better way.
Yep, PCW Spotted it immediately. A better solution is to RTFM!
forum.linuxcnc.org/26-turning/38280-pimping-the-mini-lathe?start=170#176927
Funny how tht is.
How about using an 8 way relay board to control the VSD. Then you can also use it to control any other item on the lathe like coolant. Cheers Dave
THe 7i96 has six SSR. I am only using three. PCW from Mesa took one look at what I did, and pointed out the dumb mistake...
forum.linuxcnc.org/26-turning/38280-pimping-the-mini-lathe?start=170#176927
Thanks for watching.
imperial system hurt me
You get used to it.
@@RotarySMP is possible but i never understand much that system
@Erik Mikkelsaar USA a crazy contradictory country
@Erik Mikkelsaar i see, messy measure system the same whit the different voltages human are complicated
5:22 very bad idea to twist the wires this way. When you turn the wire ends around the centerline you also should rotate the wires in the opposite direction.
Thanks for that. I'll note that for future builds.
would a relay work for the VFD ?
Not necessary, PCW from Mesa pointed out my dumb mistake immediately ...
forum.linuxcnc.org/26-turning/38280-pimping-the-mini-lathe?start=170#176927
Thanks for watching.
Concerning the switching. Why not some relays that are controlled by the Mesa card.... I know it's not elegant. Edit, should have read the rest of the comments. You got a solution.
Thank for watching.
NPN versus PNP describe how transistors (or similar devices) take input signals and generate output signals. There's a good tutorial here: www.learningaboutelectronics.com/Articles/Difference-between-a-NPN-and-a-PNP-transistor Also ... It's usually far better to communicate with your VFD using RS485, rather than logic-level signals. If your VFD supports it, you can find cheap USB-RS485 dongles on Amazon, eBay, etc.
Thanks for the link. And thanks for watching.
Muito bom !
Thanks for watching.
you probably want to put a bluetooth dongle on a USB extension cord and get it out of the cabinet; microwaves don't go through metal cabinet doors.
That is the keyboard I use for the MAHO. I am usng it now on the lathe as it is convenient, but have a little wired industrial KB to integrate with the minilathe. While using the blue tooth one, I'll just keep the door open and move to the end.
Thanks for watching.
@@RotarySMP ah, that makes sense :-)