Thanks for the kind words. I will be doing a whole video on just destructive tests to really showcase the differences. The truth is all of the welding processes can make very strong welds, it’s just far easier to achieve defect free welds in all circumstances with tig 😀.
No problem. I will have a video out in the near future covering a lot of just destructive tests comparing results. The truth is mig and stick can’t match tig weldings consistent welds on many things. However in many cases it’s impossible to put enough stress on a weld to cause a failure due to things like the lack of fusion that exists at the start of a weld. On critical jobs that defect is simply moved off of the material (starting tab) or the weld joint is designed to not force you to weld through a thick molten puddle (think a fillet weld vs a weld on flat plate, on flat plate the molten weld pool is thinner because it can spread out, thus you’re not welding through so much molten metal). The main time tig becomes a clear winner is on thin material, super short welds, on thick material with small welds (like machined parts), and on materials of varying thicknesses (like super thick to thin).
TIG is the only process you will find in 43.13-2B Acceptable Methods, Techniques, and Practices - Aircraft Alterations, the FAA Acceptable Practices for Aircraft Repair. This process is used in repair and fabrication of a major portion of light Aircraft parts and assembles. The key is the ability to fuse and weld very thin parts as well. Fuel tanks in a Cessna 172 are .025" aluminum. They Crack. With ANY other process your done. TIG for my line of work to be sure. Great video on the advantages of the TIG process, I have been TIG welding for 35 years and the way you describe the advantages and attributes of the TIG process are spot on. I couldn't have said it better. Thank you sir.
Excellent contribution with the code. For aircraft, tig is the only reasonable approach for welding that really makes sense. Starting strips and run off tabs to have defects off the welded part is virtually impossible. The super thin materials are incredibly difficult to even mig weld, not to mention the possibility of spatter. Then ontop of that you have alloys of materials that may not even be available or certified for use with the mig process. The strengths of tig make it the only real suitable process. I haven’t had much exposure to aircraft repair work, but I have inspected a ton of turbine cut aways, and even seen a ton of older stuff nasa built. So much of it was tig welded and by very skilled people. Being involved in that line of work is super cool. Thanks much for your years of service 😀👍.
I am glad you’re learning 😀👍. The more you know the better welder you will be. The hardest part about learning to weld is dealing with the frustration of not being good at it, and having patience for the slow speed of progress. Once you get through that it becomes much easier and opens unbelievable doors 👍.
After the steep learning curve with stick and having many hours with the grinder and losing hair in frustration (Though finally got consistently decent results), I have had some trepidation making the move to TIG, but after seeing this I will give it a go. Gregs channel has been a god send, its been like my own welding instructor, and has been kind enough to answer the many dumb question I have had, Greg deserves to have a subscriber count of AvE and more because he actually demonstrates why you should do something instead of just empty instructions,
Don’t be afraid of tig. It’s a steep learning curve at first but in the long run it’s actually easier. If you can tig weld steel in the flat position you can tig weld in all positions easily. It just comes down to hand position and being smooth. Thick steel welds much the same as thin with tig. If you can tig weld steel you can weld stainless, copper, cast iron, (everything but aluminum/magnesium) and they all weld very similar. That saves a ton of time for learning new materials. MiG is easier on flat steel, but you need way more skill to weld vertical/overhead, welding stainless is harder, etc. Just expect to be frustrated and not be good for a while. Once you get it you will use it for a ton of things.
@@JC-un4bg When I was struggling, I used 6013, it was only after using 7018 I started to understand the weld pool. Used 6013 quite recently and did fine, I think looking back, I was traveling way too fast.
@@JC-un4bg I think also, hot start makes a massive difference, advantages using 60xx then diminish relative to 7018. The Deko welders from amazon suck, when I got a fronius transpocket, everything became easier, its also far less fussy about rod angle. I never use a grinder between strikes, I find just pressing the rod against my gloved palm breaks away any flux.
Excellent video & discussion. While each of the processes has their own strengths/benefits (great job covering them, btw).... I bought my TIG welder about 10yrs ago & absolutely love it. I actually got into TIG to complement my machining habits; but as useful as it is, & as much as I enjoy it, wish I would've tried it earlier. Thanks!
Thanks Greg. Yet another video that I’ve not seen anywhere else (and making me want to spend more time with TIG). However, you demo does make me wonder about when to use stick vs. MIG spray on thicker material.
So stick and spray can both weld thicker steel just fine. Where you run into trouble is short arc mig simply can’t carry enough heat in the arc to fuse the root of 1/2 steel reliably. On shorter welds it becomes really bad. Spray doesn’t have this issue because its heat input is much higher. A simple comparison is spray at 220a at 27 volts is 5970 watts, short circuit mig at 200amps 22 volts is 4400 watts. Thats 35% more wattage with a better gas mixture for penetration. That is why spray is better suited for thicker steel. Tig actually has fairly low heat input (say 170a at 17v or 2890watts) but can achieve proper fusion because that heat is super concentrated in a very small area. Stick welding with 7018 will generally just fuse the root with a pinch of penetration. In many cases that’s all you need. The difference is stick will reliably fuse 95% of a root on 3/8+ plate with 3/32 rods (it will be slightly better with 1/8 or 5/32 rods), short circuit mig will likely leave 98% of the root (of say a fillet weld) unfused. Not to mention poor sidewall fusion. The only way to deal with this issue is to weld both sides of a fillet weld if possible, or significantly oversized a weld (aka a bunch of passes) in a hope it will make up for a weak root. Generally speaking short circuit will handle up to about 1/4inch steel just fine. Per AWS short circuits practical limit on non open root is 5/16th. Anything thicker than a 1/4 I will tig, stick, or spray arc. The only way to get solid welds on 1/2in with short circuit is to weld vertical up with 100% co2 gas, which takes far more skill than stick welding in the flat position lol.
Thank you. I finally got a TIG welder after decades of DIY welding with Oxy/Acet, stick and MIG. I'm really enjoying the versatility of the TIG process which includes TIG brazing.
Glad to hear that👍. The fact you can have about 10 different 1-2lbs tubes of assorted filler rods and fix almost anything that’s metal with a tig welder is literally almost a magical power lol. Minimal sparks, virtually no smoke, ability to weld virtually anything, what’s not to love 😀.
Outstanding video... the practical world of a welder organised by a real practical education with thinking out loud explanations.. sets the bar above any other welding video ive seen to date !!
Thanks for the kind words😀👍. I will be doing a video with a ton of break tests and destructive tests comparing mig/stick/tig so everyone can really understand the strengths and weaknesses. I will definitely demonstrate many more differences.
I was a teacher(not welding), and I am quite impressed by your teaching skills. One thing I found was that by planning lessons, anticipating questions, it increased my knowledge of the subject. I wonder if the same happens for you while preparing your videos. Great work you do, many thanks!
So one of the odd things with the channel is due to severe time constraints I basically have zero prep time, often only have a idea in my head of what to tackle, and just sit down and do it in one shot and that’s it. Most of the editing I have to do is to remove trains and airplanes from the background audio (I am near an airport and 100 foot from an active rail road). Some days it can take 2-3 hours to shoot a 30min video because of how long I have to wait for the audio to get clear. I also have done a ton of research in the past on what I talk about, but it’s very uncommon for me to do much studying for a particular video. It’s not that I couldn’t benefit from it, I just don’t have the time I would like lol. In the near future I will have a bit more time to spend editing and researching stuff.
New welder here. Been gluing stuff (non liability stuff!!) together with my 90 amp FCAW machine, and it has been a happy experience. But I just bought primewelds TIG 325x on sale. FYI, from my perspective as a hobbyist\property owner, the slower speed of TIG doesnt bother me, because the actual welding time of my projects has been a tiny fraction of the overall project time, and also its fun. The time needed to gain the skill also doesnt bother me, since Im excited about it and look forward to it. However, I am a little anxious about the extra cleaning time it is going to require, since I have to admit it has been quite fun to blast through mill scale and even light rust from junkyard steel with my flux core machine. Greg, continued 🙏 to you.
No doubt you will have to prep material far more with tig. Mill scale is a complete no go with tig, or surface rust. However if you prep the material at the start you will have no spatter to clean up, super precise/clean welds, and the ability to weld virtually any thickness. Stick and mig are great for a lot of stuff, but it’s actually easier to do clean precise welds with tig. Once you can run decent beads your ability to weld oddball stuff will be through the roof. Welding strong welds on nuts for projects, repairing tools, welding aluminum, etc, all become reality with tig.
Very good informational video!! I will say the way I compensate for the cold start on multiple passes is I start left then right and last middle out both directions. I'm not at all saying this is the proper way or even the right way, its just what I have found works for me !
I agree completely. Today, I was telling my friend, a sign painter, that she should consider getting a tig machine so she can make her own signs. I taught her flux core and she immediately made 3 signs. Now she needs a sheet metal sign and I'm going to have her come to my shop to help me make her sign, using TIG. Last week I repaired a friends broken cast iron saw part. In 45 minutes I had it all brazed back together and he's happily using his fancy table saw. The week before I made, In essence, four sheet metal tanks. I used pulse with finger switch and dialed in the settings so that I flew over the edges, fusing with only occasional filler. My last job was welding round bars on a horse stall. I tried stick and mig and settled on tig because there was no spatter and no smoke soot and no flux. It was by far the best way to do small round parts, 1/2 " and 3/4". I could paint with no cleanup, no fuss, no muss, no wire brushing.
100%, what you described is what makes tig so great. With a handful of assorted fillers and a single bottle of argon you can literally tig weld almost anything. It works so well on small parts, repairs, and oddball jobs. You can put down the size weld you want, and not be limited to oversized welds or grinding of welds. Provided the material can be prepped and it’s not exposed to wind/outdoors tig works great. It would suck if it wasn’t available to use lol.
Thanks 👍. A lot of people are afraid of tig and don’t understand the benefits. It gives a ton of capability once you get through the steep initial learning curve.
100%. It’s nice to not have tons of sparks and smoke everywhere lol. I really think more people should look at tig in the home shop. No, it’s not the perfect tool for every job, but for a ton of what people weld it would likely work.
No *Blops!* with Tig. (blops = Spatter.) Easier to clean up your welds when you’re doing “furniture-grade” welds. Another trick is to use er309 stainless rod when you’re after a “smooth and lovely” weld. You won’t give up strength, even if you’ll spend (a lot) more on your rods.
@@carpediemarts705yes, that’s the 220 outlet here. For thin stuff - 16 gauge square steel tube, and thinner 4130 - I’ve used a regular 110 outlet. Good for up to 85 amps or so.
Nicely explained. Now, we can increase TIG productivity with TIP-TIG process , in a way that on the beginning of the short weld, adding the filler material is delayed for the rime where metal starts to melt and than we starts adding wire trough wire feeder. Also, to improve penetration in fillet weld, especially on thick aluminum, we can preheat starting point and additionally during TIG or TIP-TIG welding TO use gas mixture of 20-30% of Helium in Argon. Only dissadvantage of increasing productivity in above described ways is increased price of equipment. Anyway, in all cases, Quality to Productivity/Safety ratio must be take in account, as You mentioned in excellent videoclip posted. Best regards from Germany!
Tip tig seems like a cool option for production work. No doubt it could be setup to work much the same as doing it by hand, just with more metal deposition. The way you described tip tig adding filler when the molten puddle is established is exactly why tig avoids the lack of fusion present with mig and stick. You don’t have to add filler to start fusing metal together, therefore you have more consistent fusion start to finish.
Thank u Greg each an every lesson u teach all of us is an incredible abundance of information we learn that is not mentioned in any other channels out here granted there are a few exceptions such as Bob Muffat,Dusty from Pacific Arc ,Justin from th The Fabricator ,this old guy Tony ,6061 channel an finally a gentleman whom I like thank very much An that’s Jody from welding tricks an tips thanks to u Greg along with all this incredible community I thought that unless I went to a tech school it was gonna be th only way to learn ….u guys really go way out of ur way for all of us an I hope that one day I can pass along th knowledge I have gained thank u🙏🏽🙏🏽🙏🏽🙏🏽God Bless always 🙏🏽🙏🏽🙏🏽
Interesting video for sure, great breakdown of the differences between the processes I have wondered what the real world use case for TIG is and you summed it up really well
Tig basically excels at defect free welds that are very small and clean of spatter. It’s very useful for repairing things or making small items. The average person could probably benefit from knowing how to do it, but for many it won’t have much practical application over a simple mig welder 😀.
I have owned a really nice TIG/Stick welder for 15 years now. Stick welds just amazing! Guess I should learn how to use the TIG side of it sooner or later, huh...
Once you master basic tig welding you will be shocked at how useful it is. You will also be surprised at how strong tig welds actually are. Because you can deposit super small high fusion defect free welds, a small tig weld will actually be as strong as a bigger mig and stick weld depending on how the weld is stressed. With stick and mig you are limited to weld size, you simply can’t make small welds and have high fusion on thick material.
Was in a similar boat. Got a powerarc 210stl as a gift and only used stock for several years. Decided to try tig and got the couple hundred in required accessories. Now I have only stick welded 2-3 times in the last 2 years. 90% of the time if you can stick it, you can Tig it 5 times better. Less cleanup, way more confidence in my weld and I actually think it's easier once you get over the initial hurdles.
Excellent video ,and explanation 👍 I think each welding process has its place and purpose although tig in my opinion has the most control but you also need to skilled .just my two cents.
That's a good analysis of the welding processes, and a good demonstration. I typically try to avoid welding stick with 3/32 or smaller because slag inclusion is common; my guess has been because it takes too much flux coating on the rod for those smaller rods. I've found .023 mig wire to be versatile for thin metal, to dirty metal, up to reasonably thicker steel, because it is easy to work with by adjusting it a little hotter colder faster slower for metal thickness, oil contamination, paint, or what-have-you. I prefer .035 mig for aluminum, because it also is pretty adjustable for volts, wire speed, and speed of travel, given the weld position and the variety of thicknesses and contamination, but it is machine capability dependent. TIG is my favorite for stainless, and small strong (and pretty) welds.
Your observations is right on with what I have seen. Those 1/16th 6013 rods seem to have flat out too much flux. They work ok on flat position lap welds but it’s slag inclusion city on fillet welds. The 1/16th 6011s run about the best and 5/64 rods of assorted sizes aren’t too bad either. Honestly if I am down to stick welding thin material I am already frustrated 😅. .023 MiG wire solves all of this issues like you said, it actually makes welding thin material comically easy in comparison to stick. So many people have asked for more tips on 1/16th rods on sheet metal and I pretty much left it as “buy a flux core or mig welder lol.
@@makingmistakeswithgreg You know, I've never run a flux core; I wasn't interested because of all the spatter. I've run Outershield, and also Innershield up to Lincoln's largest diameter, but not straight flux core. I bought 1/16th inch rods once, even tried running it at ridiculously high amps, horrible stuff. We got some .023 wire for doing our own body work 😏 on a couple of trucks... and then you use it for other things because you don't want to change the spool 😄 Turned out to be a very versatile good easy to use wire, it made a believer out me.
TIG indeed is the ultimate secret weapon. SilBr and AluBr tig brazing are some of the most underrepresented and useful processes you can imagine. As well, augmented with MIG. My go-to for doing thick material (steel / mysterymetal) quickly has always been a super hot root pass with TIG using ER308 rod (yes yes stainless on mild, I know.....but it shores up the chromium and vanadium content in the base metal prior to the MIG pass....) then a heavy MIG weave over it, or a series of stringers as needed. A weave is going to give you the dwell time with the MIG to really let that arc dig in and form a good nugget at the start. The ER308 TIG root I have found to be the key to tie in the hot cap into the root. ER70S6 being a NiCroMo alloy, adding in the [additional] chromium and vanadium into solution with the ER308, helps tie it all together. The 308 rod also helps dissolution of carbon in the root and cap and can help prevent carbide precip.
Definitely. MiGs ability to get sidewall fusion is good, its main limitation is very poor root fusion on fillet welds and any joint that forces you to weld into a corner. By tigging a root you no longer have a situation where your mig puddle is thick, and your base to weld on is flat/wide which really helps mig out. For the same reason why short arc mig can produce strong welds on an open root beveled plate, at no point are you forced to weld through a thick molten pool.
Glad you liked it 😀👍. I am going to be covering a whole video just on comparisons with cut&etch/ break tests to really demonstrate the strengths and weaknesses of each process. That way everyone can understand more about welding in general 😀.
I know this is not apples to apples but I’m currently using a 120v tig. I feel like that 120v tig is almost as strong as the 220v mig or maybe it’s equivalent. Maybe how you said, Tig gets down to the root. Awesome video! Sorry if I’m sounding irrational.
So on 120v it is entirely possible to weld 3/8th steel with absurdly strong welds with tig. With mig it’s not really possible. Stick welding is even a challenge on 120v because of breaker trips with many machines. If I only had 120v and needed to weld anything with very strong welds 100% tig is the way to go. The main limiting factor on 120v with tig is you can’t do weaves on thicker material, you can’t carry enough heat due to limited amperage. So you just run multiple stringer welds and call it good 😀.
Great video sir! Learned a lot. Could the lack of fusion problem be partially solved by starting the weld at the midpoint and working out to the edge? Or would that cause more issues?
So I made a video that in many ways touches on this. I did numerous starts and stops on a plate, broke it, and showed how after every start you have a small change in fusion. This is why it’s best to avoid restarts as much as possible, and not weld over tacks that aren’t ground down (the same lack of fusion will often happen when welding over a tack). For the sake of strength the lack of fusion will likely be better starting at the edge and moving in, because the weld area will get hotter due to a lack of metal to pull heat out of the weld. If you were to start in the middle and weld both directions you would have a bigger lack of fusion in the middle of the plate. Even though the ends would be burned in better I think the LOF in the middle would be a worse defect. Here is the video dealing with starts and stops: ruclips.net/video/KSuqvvvGYak/видео.htmlsi=_O59S6plOZxPPgVc
Pretty good presentation, however, you need to flip your two weld examples as they are both 180 degrees out of phase. Lack of fusion is on right side of the SMAW on the bottom and the weld fillet with the LOF is on the top left of ther broken off piece. Same goes for the GTA weld on the left.
for practice I weld some bead Up into air then curve around up and down to get all positions - many feet of weld beed - only materials is filler rod - no cleaning - make a globe / art etc - also practice using gas welding for tig - aiming heat /control is most similar to tig but cost is less - i had a tig welder in living room -
I will get to that, I can tell you that silicon bronze is incredibly strong but it is not nearly as strong as er70. Silicon bronze is around 50k tensile strength. Because it has zero penetration (no base material melted) unless both sides of something are “brazed” with it the joint will be fairly weak. Keep in mind that this is mostly talking about material thicker than 3/16th, on thinner material (like auto body to maybe 1/8th) the material can’t generate enough force to break the braze more than likely.
I would love to have a mig or tig machine. I only have a Hobart 8500 and it’s good welder but you have to worry about the motor and the rheostat setting
very informative but i have never tried tig. i do i have a few welders a miller thunderbolt ac also a titanium mig 140 and a vulcan omnipro. i was tempted to buy the tig torch and pedal for the omnipro but then wanted the spool gun for aluminum. Now i am definitely gonna buy the tig setup for it as i see in your video list that you can tig weld aluminum. thanks again for all the info
You can tig weld aluminum if you have a ac/machine, many machines that can tig won’t do a/c, so verify this first. Tig without a/c is still worth it to have. You can do a ton of things with tig that you can’t with other processes. It’s actually very useful for general work, since the slow weld speed isn’t a huge issue.
@steeveejee4647 Todays fun fact, the pedal is not a good idea for TIG. A fingertip "micro switch" push button is the way to go. The harder you press, the more power you get.
@@makingmistakeswithgreg oh ok ithe only ac machine i have is the miller thunderbolt so i guess that is out of the question . still gonna get a torch for the omnipro then maybe a spool gun down the line or a better machine that i can tig aluminum with
Definitely. MiG and stick can hide many flaws that you would clearly see as you’re tig welding. Thanks for your service as a X-ray tech, you help people become better welders whether they want to or not 😅
I definitely will do that. I can oxy fuel weld flat plates good, but haven’t done many fillet welds with it. I will have to practice a bunch and do some testing. I can tell you that even using the same wire (er70s2) as tig, the oxy fuel weld will be weaker. When acetylene burns it produces co2 shielding gas, and that gas interacts with the molten metal. The end result is typically a significant loss of ductility and ultimate tensile strength. Although the huge heat input will likely have a softening effect on the steel, I think the weld would break on a bend test on 3/8th plate. I will have to try 😀👍
@makingmistakeswithgreg welding inside an angle isn't easy with gas. I assume the same thing with the excessive heat will weaken the metal. My thoughts were that many say that if you can weld it with TIG you can weld it with oxy/acetylen. I have never tried TIG but i can weld both stainless and alu with good results with oxy/acetylen.
@@makingmistakeswithgreg "loss of ductility"? Seriously? Due to the heat input levels involved and timeframe during which the cooling down takes, oxy acetylene welding will give a softer therefore more ductile weld deposit than almost any other process. Tensile strength? No. For tensile strength tig and low hy stick will come out on top, mig being not far behind when steel is clean and in flat position so full spray transfer can be used.
Helium is interesting because the heat comes from the increase in voltage required to maintain an arc. In a way you get the heat output of a super long arc (with a wide useless arc cone) but with a tight focused/narrow arc cone. You can hit the duty cycle of a machine faster with helium. I may get a bottle of it for experiments, the crap thing is it’s sitting at something like a 400$ swap out right now. I have never seen d/c helium done on steel, only aluminum. I bet the penetration would have to be deep, it better be for the cost lol.
No need to use helium in the mix other than when welding heavy guage aluminium. Similar to how there is no need to use hydrogen in the mix other than when welding heavy guage austenitic stainless steels ie 300 series. Both have the same end effect as far as penetration is concerned
6010 would have achieved far better root fusion, but it is weaker in tension than 7018. You definately can do that but it should be avoided on anything but mild steel (due to hydrogen in the 6010s flux could cause hydrogen cracking in/near the weld). One of the downsides to stick is just like short circuit mig, it doesn’t have the best penetration with common higher strength rods. It did fuse the root in the video, just barely, and that’s typical. Stepping up to 1/8th or 5/32 7018s will give slightly more penetration.
If you’re welding galvanized tig definitely won’t help you much. That’s one of the unfortunate things with tig, coatings and metal treatments instantly eliminate it from being used lol.
With stick welding and MIG welding, the filler is the electrode and more of the filler elements and alloying is burned away, compared to TIG welding.For the same weld, MIG welding requires about twice the power or heat, that TIG welding requires. It is "easier" to weld wide gaps with MIG than with TIG welding. With gas welding, some gap is desirable.
So I have watched a ton of training videos on it and seen the welds first hand, but I have not used it. I am on the fence about buying a setup to use. Ultimately some form of laser or vaporized metal deposition will take over tig, but that’s a long way off. Tig is so simple and effective that achieving the same heat input with a laser requires a lot of power, expense, and safety precautions. I have seen videos of guys using them without following proper ppe guidelines and that’s pretty scary.with a class 4 laser with 2k+ watts.
@@makingmistakeswithgreg Laser also has it's pro's and cons, just like any other process. The main things I think with laser are, easy to train an operator when doing like repetitive production type work, and the sheer speed it's phenomenally fast. And the welds look even cleaner than TiG. The other big benefit I see is very low heat input versus penetration, it's far less heat input than TiG. The thing with lasers is the heat is extremely concentrated into like a wobbling 1mm spot, and because the rest of the material doesn't have to conduct electricity, the heat doesn't spread out as much. However I've heard some people say having problems with thin stainless parts cracking etc. Surface prep isn't an issues, I watched one video where a guy welded some 304 stainless pipe, and welded right over the factory printed numbers. And the numbers were still legible, even UNDER the weld! I think what's going on is, once the steel is molten, it becomes almost transparent to the laser which allows the laser to burn right thru and past any surface rust/paint etc. It then wobbles the laser around to move like a melted cone along the direction of weld. Another benefit like with mild steel, argon gas isn't required, a lot of them just use dry nitrogen, but the gas flow rate is a LOT. It sounds like blasting the part with a blow gun, it's a lot of shielding gas at high volume and high pressure. The setup for a big laser is a big upfront cost too, you need 3 phase power for the larger machines, and a water cooler machine for the laser machine too. The benefits once you have the machine set up for the job though it's pretty wild, like you set up the machine for like welding an inside corner joint on two 1/4" plates. You just put the gun at one end, at the right angle, then pull the trigger and the metal fill wire pushes you along at the correct and very consistent travel speed and when you reach the end, you just release the trigger. Dialing in the laser power, wobble shape, laser power in watts, wire type and size, and wire feed speed takes quite a bit of experimenting to "dial it down" and get things just right. But in like a factory you can have the engineers do all that, and write up WPS's and program the machines, and then the operator just has to press the correct menu button for that pre-programmed set of parameters and squeeze a trigger. The best use cases I think are for like thin materials where warping is a concern. A good example would be welding mirror polished stainless or gold colored mirror finishes. Since there's no spatter and very minimal heat input, those types of stuff can be welded and not mess up the very fine mirror polish. There's a guy on youtube from Korea that has a comparison of welding a stainless steel pipe onto a flat plate with both TiG and laser, and the amount of part warping with TiG is quite a bit more than the laser welded part.
Great question. So flux core (self shielded) has a set of interesting problems of its own. On steel thicker than 1/4, common .035 self shielded wire will often have internal weld porosity. It typically has far more penetration than short circuit mig but the welds tend to be weaker in practice (on thicker material) than hardwire due to defects. The porosity has to do with how fast the molten pool solidifies on thicker material and can’t easily be eliminated without going to .045 or bigger wire. Dual shield wire (gas shielded with flux core) doesn’t have those issues. For many things you might weld with flux core self shielded (yard art, car exhaust, auto body, 3/16th steel) the difference in strength isn’t that significant between mig and flux core. When you get into 1/4in or thicker material, higher strength alloys, or things that are exposed to high vibration/impact forces, I would avoid self shielded flux core. I will have a video out in the next few weeks talking more about the ideal use and for all common welding processes and that will definitely shed more light on this.
These days i rarely find TIG to be worth the time. Alum or something really thin, yes. Just about anything else I'm not wasting my time with it. My brother was a die-hard TIG guy for many years, works mostly in the marine industry. He got a hot repair job with about 200" of weld on weathered 3/16 steel. I told him i'd do one side for him, threw my MIG/bottle in the truck and went over. Quick pass with the wire wheel and started welding, meanwhile he's sitting there doing tons of cleaning and prep to get the material in good enough shape to TIG. Thanks to all the additional prep required for TIG i was completely done with my half and he was just starting to weld his side, had maybe 4" done. It's been 7 years and both sides are still holding strong, so what was the point of TIG welding it? He has since incorporated a lot more Stick and MIG into his work.
Tigs benefits mostly come from what it’s capable of doing, which is small precise high fusion welds on any material. Anytime you’re talking hundreds of inches of weld on common materials there isn’t much benefit to tig. Where mig falls apart is welding things like cast iron, tool steels, copper, very thin materials, aluminum (aluminum mig welds typically have internal porosity on anything but new clean aluminum and are weaker than tig), and thick material. Mig also requires more skill to weld out of position than tig, requires more money investment to weld all common materials (multiple gas mixtures, expensive spools of wire, etc), and in many cases mig forces you to put down bigger welds than are needed (especially vertical up). They both have their draw backs that’s for sure.
Love your videos Greg, but I must bring something up that is becoming more common and needs to be addressed. In the topic of root fusion, handheld laser will have the most compared to arc processes. I know your videos are about arc welding, but I just thought I would suggest at least mentioning this, especially considering that the major players on the welding industry are adopting.
The limitation of laser is power, expense, and safety. A common 1k-1.5k laser that’s 6-7k+ is only rated for 1/4inch steel, and actually won’t make a very strong single pass weld due to poor penetration. When you get into 2-4k lasers things get more interesting but so does the 18k+ costs for cheap ones. The other major issue is safety, it’s not safe (or likely osha legal) to laser weld with a class 4 laser without a ton of safety containment. This can push the cost of such systems sky high because of the danger of eye damage. Generally a whole area of a shop has to be sectioned off with restricted access. Ultimately some form of laser, electron beam, or metal vapor deposition type of process will overtake tig. Laser is simply too expensive and too limiting to take over for tig anytime soon. I don’t know that we will ever see 2k fiber lasers for 1k and that’s about what the world would need to make it practical for an average person. For thin wall stainless production work absolutely it’s a great system.
Interesting stuff. However...LOL On 12mm plate 2G fillet with TIG, we run 350A and a 6mm filler rod. 3 passes on a non-grooved joint. Penetration is quite a bit different than with 190A.
So 6010 blows 7018 out of the water on penetration. The downside is 6010 will put hydrogen into the weld/material. If the material is mild steel and nothing that is susceptible to hydrogen embrittlement, it could work. If it was higher strength steel you would want to ether bevel the plate to get a bigger weld throat depth, put down more passes, or weld both sides (all with 7018). Also, I didn’t mention it but rod size does play a role to a certain extent. 1/2in plate would be better welded by 1/8th or 5/32 rods and I bet at higher amperage and a bigger rod it might be slightly better. 1/2inch at 50 degrees is no joke to fuse, even on a smaller coupon lol.
Get your settings and travel speed "dialed in" and the 7018 will be all good, no need to use 6010 at all👍 Have worked before on heavy guage sleeves and platework for a particular industry where all of the welding for fillets was carried out using the same consumables, all low hydrogen. 7018 and 8018. The butts were tig rooted due to standards required but thats irrelevant if youre talking fillets. 6010 is a rod used for roots in pipework. Thats pretty much it. (Well, outside of the usa anyway) That particular industry has a 100% requirement. Procedure testing including root and face bends, macro etching, tensile strenght testing, charpy v notch testing, all passed allowing the procedures to be used through that particular company. Ultrasound Testing of all work where usable was passed.
Providing done properly, cleanliness of parts to be welded, amperage voltage travel speed therefore heat input ranges adhered to, tig welding gives a better quality metal deposition than any other process. Stronger? Yes. Suitable for application? Not always (due to speed and level of productivity where other processes will meet the levels required) Mig/mag or dualshield meets standard required for structural steelwork. Stick, particularly low hydrogen, meets requirements for most applications of high pressure carbon steel pipework (not all materials). Sub-arc meets requirements when heavy guage/thickness materials are involved (often after tig is used for initial passes when non ferrous materials are concerned).
If you wanted your stick weld to hold, you would use a higher heat and agitate the puddle with a weave. Also, you would get more penetration, use AC instead of DC. If you want something to hold, use stick.
Believe it or not weaving lowers penetration with stick, because the molten pool is thicker and the arc will loose heat input. You might gain sidewall fusion but on a single root pass on a fillet weld you will lose some root fusion.
With TIG you have a bigger heat affected zone and most welds will fail at or in the heat affected zone. MIG has the lowest HEZ unless you go to EB or laser. When starting with MIG it is an idea to start in front of where you want the start of the werl then go to your start point and progres over the actual start point.
Heat affected zone failures comes down to material mostly. Chromoly and aluminum often fail in the heat affected zone, which why in both cases the weld strength isn’t often a huge concern over things like ductility. Chromoly is often under welded with a lower strength filler. Tig also has the benefit of being able to slowly ramp up and down the heat input to prevent hot short cracks, this is far harder to do with mig and stick which is one reason why you don’t commonly see those used for tool steel repairs. Still though the heat input can be a concern with Tig and could require a different post weld heat treatment on something over mig to meet a desired performance of the welded part.
il n'y a pas de procédé de soudage toujours supérieur à un autre. Car le TIG donne une plus grand ZAT, et à un coup économique beaucoup plus cher que le MMA . Par contre ce qu'il ne faut jamais oublier,c'est quand MMA c'est le diamètre de l'électrode qui commande dans une certaine plage l'intensité, alors qu'en MIG c'est l'épaisseur de la pièce qui fait la loi. Le MIG s'étant popularisé, énormément de gens font des collage sans sans rendre compte en outrepassant les limites du soudable en MIG de leur poste. La sagesse est de prendre un MIG pouvant faire aussi le MMA et de changer de procéder pour faire d'importantes épaisseurs. Ps sur des aciers alliés même en préchauffant dans tous les cas , vous aurez moins de soucis en MMA qu'en TIG;
I wonder how Tig compares to Atomic Hydrogen Arc Welding? (Ever since I learned of it, I've been dieing to find some place that still has the system so I could try it!)
Not good as TIG. Hydrogen enter in weld pool and may cause cracking. Technology merging tig and hydrogen atomic welding is plasma weldnig with argon + he .
I did a video on preheating and believe it or not preheating will not get rid of the lack of fusion with stick or mig at that point. The only way to get rid of it fully is to have the weld start off of what you’re welding and then come onto it with a hot molten pool. This is also why you shouldn’t start or stop on corners of material, you will have a lack of fusion right at a point that stress gets focused on. Tig has the ability to make full fusion start to finish and doesn’t require starting tabs to get rid of defects. To a certain extent “run in speed” and other adjustments with a mig machine can help reduce it, and hot start can help stick a bit, but they will never be able to achieve the same level of consistency in fusion as tig.
Lots of thoughts, hope they help: Preheat will not increase penetration. The extent of what it will do it possibly improve sidewall fusion, but this will be limited at best. I did an entire video on this and even at 1k preheat there was virtually nothing improved in penetration. Preheat flattens welds and the welds stay hot for longer, which gives the illusion of more fusion, but the root penetration doesn’t change much. That’s a limitation of the gas mixture and the process. Speaking of gas mixtures, gas mixtures have a huge effect on penetration. 100% co2 produces much better penetration than c25, but at the expense of weld tensile strength. When you get into spray arc mixtures like c10, tri mix, argon/oxygen blends, etc the differences can be significant. Every mixture provides a different penetration profile and different weld strength numbers. 100% pure argon should only be used for spray welding of aluminum with wire. If you use it with a normal wire welder it will do two things, 1) it will limit penetration and wetting out of the weld, and 2 it will likely cause an unstable arc. Pure argon will produce very weak welds because of the above weld issues. The reason it works for aluminum is due to the high voltage required mixed with the difference in material.
Anyone got any tips to stop condensation in the helmet? got a A40 Savage, its one of the reasons I was thinking about selling a kidney and buying a 3m speedglas because I read that they prevent condensation.
On the face shield? I usually have a biff over my nose/mouth. It helps with the condensation, unless it's very cold outside like now in the UK. Minus 3C and I have to use a oxy-propane to cut for a minute and heat my face shield for nine :D
So I have talked with some guys on this, and never came up with a trick that works well. I know most anti fog stuff doesn’t work well. I do know that wearing a respirator that has a valve that vents down does work decent. Even a cloth mask with a valve that’s on the bottom could work. Wearing a welders neck sock and pulling it over your nose will help some. Beyond that you might be able to adjust your hood outward from your face a bit via the head gear to get a bit more air in there so it stays clear.
@@makingmistakeswithgreg That's another video topic covered :) Some of my diver friends (the basic kind, not welders) use a soap covered damp rag to wipe the inside of diving mask. Apparently it prevents fogging. I tried, but applied to much detergent so I had a blurry face shield. Fix one problem with a bigger one. But jokes aside, being hygropgobic, the thin detergent layer should not attract moisture.
I had so many people telling me it was bad to learn on TIG first, but it seems to me that you actually intuit what you're doing. Until you understand what's actually happening with the base metal and the puddle, you ain't going nowhere. I feel like you can blast away with stick without genuinely understanding the arc welding process.
You’re right, Tig allows you to see everything and gives you an insight that mig and stick flat out don’t. Learning to tig weld first is how I learned to weld, and I have zero regrets. You didn’t make a mistake at all learning to tig first, you will have an insight to how welding works that most people won’t have unless they did tig weld. Tig also builds very good hand eye coordination and builds an understanding of correct travel speed vs heat input. This directly translates to other welding processes. It’s far easier to go from tig to mig/stick, than mig/stick to tig.
My assumption before I watch: No. Correct welds with both are equally strong. With Tig it is easier to prevent lack of fusion defects because you FIRST melt the root, and THEN add filler. So you can often partially see the root, before adding filler metal, to cover it up.
With aluminium in medium guages - 4mm through 12mm, or anything you can weld in one pass, then MIG will add less heat that TIG, and so will end up stronger. The weakest part of any aluminum weld is not the weld itself but the heat affected zone adjacent to the weld. Less heat means less heat affected metal.
Aluminum is a tricky metal. On one hand you are correct, the HAZ zone is the weakest link provided the weld is defect free. The problem is defects. I have done a ton of aluminum repairs (boats, trailers, and random stuff) and countless welds fail because of defects. Crater eyes, under cut, suck back, porosity, poor penetration, etc, are major issues with aluminum mig. Hell most aluminum mig welds have internal porosity that isn’t even known about. Very rarely will a crack exist at the heat affected zone and be the cause of a failure vs a crack right down a weld due to one of the above issues. Tig aluminum allows you to use clean filler wire with no contaminates (mig has oil/ crap on the spool), you can “boil out” crap in the material without just concealing it, and you can control weld defects far easier with tig. Modern mig machines setup for aluminum do a far better job via adjustments of run in speed, crater fills, heat input controls, etc. However the welds of tig are far less likely to crack or fail under normal use than mig due to fewer defects.
@makingmistakeswithgreg I have had the opposite experience while building aluminium boats, where the TIG welds in middle guages have failed first. I have exclusively been using pulse mig machines & strict procedures, so I wonder if that makes a difference?
So the filler rod tig uses is the same that mig can use. Generally mig is er70s6 and tig is er70s2 (s6 has more deoxidizers) but the base strength of the same wire is used is the same. However the shielding gas used will have an effect on weld performance I have a feeling the 100% argon of tig would produce a more ductile weld than c25. This is because c25 gas has carbon dioxide gas and that lowers ductility. The same reason why 6010 welds are less ductile than 7018 is due to the production of co2 gas. The crap thing with mig is you can’t use 100% argon with steel welding because it produces a very ropey poor penetration weld. Lower co2 gas mixtures like c10 or spray arc blends can increase ductility but they require a lot of voltage to maintain an arc. No free lunch lol.
So you welded ⅛inch 7018 stick at 90 amps? No wonder you had cold roll and fusion issues. You should be running 120 to 130. I would say, with the small piece, 120. Redo the test with it set at 120 and see the difference!
It’s 3/32 rods, I stated there was a change in plans due to the weld size being more than adequate with 3/32 rods there was no need to go to 1/8. The lack of fusion is caused by the fact metal is deposited anytime there is an arc struck, it’s an unavoidable defect with stick welding on fillet welds, the loss of penetration right after a start. It happens with mig as well. Tig it can be avoided because you can control heat input and fusion separate from filler.
@makingmistakeswithgreg those beads are way to big for 3/32 rod. The fusion I'm talking about is the part you said was slag underneath. That slag got included because of cold roll. Since you don't have a filter for your lens I am purely speculating here but I believe you are probably mixing slow travel speed with stuffing your rod with temp being to low. I absolutely would run ⅛ inch rod on this joint. I would run 120 (honestly I would run closer to 130) and I would maintain my travel speed based on proper puddle size not how big I want it. The weld should be around the width of 2 bare rods of the size you are using. Roughly the width of 2.5 coated rods. Something that would absolutely help you get a much cleaner start, start just inside the the beginning of your weld zone. Do a very small loop backwards in a half circle about the width of the desired puddle. Extend your arc length just a hair, travel a little slower then normal for about an inch, then tighten up your arc length and speed up your travel. This will make your fusion on your start a little better.
On a 2 inch stick weld you don't start right at the beginning in that case you'd start at the end of the plate and drag it back to the start so your rod is hot all the way and you won't get lack of fusion
Single pass Stick weld a 1/4inch or thicker steel fillet weld and break it towards the face. There will be a reduction in fusion at the 1/4inch mark. Same with mig. This is precisely why restarts are ground down, starting tabs are used (so the potential defects are off the material, and tacks are ground down. The same exact thing happens when you weld over a non ground down tack be it open root or just a tack on a fillet weld. On pipe welding you will have a lack of fusion going into a unfeathered tack and that’s open root with a agressive rod (6010). I am sorry but you’re mistaken 👍
@@makingmistakeswithgreg you don't need starting tabs on a 2 inch stick weld if you only have a 2 inch weld you strike at the end of the plate and drag it back to the start to heat up the rod in advance
Well in that case stick with what you got👍. If you need some flux core wire let me know, I have a bunch of spare spools of it that I will never use. Message me at Weldingoldschool at gmail if you want them, no charge 😀👍
At 11m43s, it's "perfect", not "perfet"... Also, it's "splatter", not "spatter"... I guess you opted for the whiteboard with the protective drop case instead of the one with the built-in spellchecker... :)
I was never a fan 6013, except with 1/16th rods on sheet metal lol. It’s the only rod I have ran that you can literally get slag inclusions on a fillet weld easily if you’re not careful. If I am down to 6013 I am in trouble lol.
Talking , talking , 44 min talking. In TIG there is NO porosity , oxigen and nitrogen contamination , no flux inclusion . And no HYDROGEN cold cracking. You asking what for ? For clicking ?
Dumbest comment i’ve seen! tig can have porosity and contamination, it’s all dependent on skill. i’ve seen tig with porosity and contamination, especially on SS and aluminum. you can lay down xray welds with other processes too, not just tig. tig welders swear their favorite process is the only process 😂
@Buzzkillco Dumbest is question in topic. Look at two joints , same size. Same good quality. There is no question . Process 141 win. I wish you luck in stick aluminium wellding....
@@Buzzkillco You are right. Stick is cheaper and faster. Everyone knows about it. It is TRUISM. But question was " Are Tig welds REALY STRONGER ( Greg has doubts !!! ) than Mig &Stick " I started TIG , love stick. But let's be serious....
I always enjoy listening to intelligent people in a skilled trade. Another great video, Greg, very useful, thanks.
Thanks for the kind words. I will be doing a whole video on just destructive tests to really showcase the differences. The truth is all of the welding processes can make very strong welds, it’s just far easier to achieve defect free welds in all circumstances with tig 😀.
There are not a lot of people talking about stuff like this. Very enjoyable, thanks!
No problem. I will have a video out in the near future covering a lot of just destructive tests comparing results. The truth is mig and stick can’t match tig weldings consistent welds on many things. However in many cases it’s impossible to put enough stress on a weld to cause a failure due to things like the lack of fusion that exists at the start of a weld. On critical jobs that defect is simply moved off of the material (starting tab) or the weld joint is designed to not force you to weld through a thick molten puddle (think a fillet weld vs a weld on flat plate, on flat plate the molten weld pool is thinner because it can spread out, thus you’re not welding through so much molten metal). The main time tig becomes a clear winner is on thin material, super short welds, on thick material with small welds (like machined parts), and on materials of varying thicknesses (like super thick to thin).
Great, looking forward to that
@@makingmistakeswithgreg
TIG is the only process you will find in 43.13-2B Acceptable Methods, Techniques, and Practices - Aircraft Alterations, the FAA Acceptable Practices for Aircraft Repair. This process is used in repair and fabrication of a major portion of light Aircraft parts and assembles.
The key is the ability to fuse and weld very thin parts as well. Fuel tanks in a Cessna 172 are .025" aluminum. They Crack. With ANY other process your done. TIG for my line of work to be sure.
Great video on the advantages of the TIG process, I have been TIG welding for 35 years and the way you describe the advantages and attributes of the TIG process are spot on.
I couldn't have said it better. Thank you sir.
Excellent contribution with the code. For aircraft, tig is the only reasonable approach for welding that really makes sense. Starting strips and run off tabs to have defects off the welded part is virtually impossible. The super thin materials are incredibly difficult to even mig weld, not to mention the possibility of spatter. Then ontop of that you have alloys of materials that may not even be available or certified for use with the mig process. The strengths of tig make it the only real suitable process.
I haven’t had much exposure to aircraft repair work, but I have inspected a ton of turbine cut aways, and even seen a ton of older stuff nasa built. So much of it was tig welded and by very skilled people. Being involved in that line of work is super cool. Thanks much for your years of service 😀👍.
@@makingmistakeswithgreg Good luck welding titanium with anything except TiG and extremely clean materials and a lot of shielding gas!
5052, or 3003 for such tanks? (Am looking at a small fuel tank in the future, albeit somewhat thicker stuff….)
@@brnmcc01 MIG can be used, people just don't do it that way any more.
❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤😊
This has to be the most informative welding video I’ve seen. I’m starting out and trying to learn as much as possible, this video is really good!
I am glad you’re learning 😀👍. The more you know the better welder you will be. The hardest part about learning to weld is dealing with the frustration of not being good at it, and having patience for the slow speed of progress. Once you get through that it becomes much easier and opens unbelievable doors 👍.
Totally blew what I thought out of the water. Great explanation and video. Thanks.
No problem 😀👍.
After the steep learning curve with stick and having many hours with the grinder and losing hair in frustration (Though finally got consistently decent results), I have had some trepidation making the move to TIG, but after seeing this I will give it a go.
Gregs channel has been a god send, its been like my own welding instructor, and has been kind enough to answer the many dumb question I have had, Greg deserves to have a subscriber count of AvE and more because he actually demonstrates why you should do something instead of just empty instructions,
Don’t be afraid of tig. It’s a steep learning curve at first but in the long run it’s actually easier. If you can tig weld steel in the flat position you can tig weld in all positions easily. It just comes down to hand position and being smooth. Thick steel welds much the same as thin with tig. If you can tig weld steel you can weld stainless, copper, cast iron, (everything but aluminum/magnesium) and they all weld very similar. That saves a ton of time for learning new materials. MiG is easier on flat steel, but you need way more skill to weld vertical/overhead, welding stainless is harder, etc. Just expect to be frustrated and not be good for a while. Once you get it you will use it for a ton of things.
What rods you using
@@JC-un4bg When I was struggling, I used 6013, it was only after using 7018 I started to understand the weld pool. Used 6013 quite recently and did fine, I think looking back, I was traveling way too fast.
@ 6013 start easy but run horrible in my opinion. Keep a 36 grit disc to hand and rob the 7018 tip on that . Makes huge difference with re strikes.
@@JC-un4bg I think also, hot start makes a massive difference, advantages using 60xx then diminish relative to 7018. The Deko welders from amazon suck, when I got a fronius transpocket, everything became easier, its also far less fussy about rod angle.
I never use a grinder between strikes, I find just pressing the rod against my gloved palm breaks away any flux.
Excellent video & discussion. While each of the processes has their own strengths/benefits (great job covering them, btw).... I bought my TIG welder about 10yrs ago & absolutely love it. I actually got into TIG to complement my machining habits; but as useful as it is, & as much as I enjoy it, wish I would've tried it earlier.
Thanks!
Tig is about the best compliment for machining. Super precise welds that are defect free is a machinists best friend lol.
Thanks Greg. Yet another video that I’ve not seen anywhere else (and making me want to spend more time with TIG). However, you demo does make me wonder about when to use stick vs. MIG spray on thicker material.
Spray will dominate. It penetrates so deep, and its so fast. Much higher deposition and deeper penetration.
So stick and spray can both weld thicker steel just fine. Where you run into trouble is short arc mig simply can’t carry enough heat in the arc to fuse the root of 1/2 steel reliably. On shorter welds it becomes really bad. Spray doesn’t have this issue because its heat input is much higher. A simple comparison is spray at 220a at 27 volts is 5970 watts, short circuit mig at 200amps 22 volts is 4400 watts. Thats 35% more wattage with a better gas mixture for penetration. That is why spray is better suited for thicker steel. Tig actually has fairly low heat input (say 170a at 17v or 2890watts) but can achieve proper fusion because that heat is super concentrated in a very small area.
Stick welding with 7018 will generally just fuse the root with a pinch of penetration. In many cases that’s all you need. The difference is stick will reliably fuse 95% of a root on 3/8+ plate with 3/32 rods (it will be slightly better with 1/8 or 5/32 rods), short circuit mig will likely leave 98% of the root (of say a fillet weld) unfused. Not to mention poor sidewall fusion. The only way to deal with this issue is to weld both sides of a fillet weld if possible, or significantly oversized a weld (aka a bunch of passes) in a hope it will make up for a weak root.
Generally speaking short circuit will handle up to about 1/4inch steel just fine. Per AWS short circuits practical limit on non open root is 5/16th. Anything thicker than a 1/4 I will tig, stick, or spray arc. The only way to get solid welds on 1/2in with short circuit is to weld vertical up with 100% co2 gas, which takes far more skill than stick welding in the flat position lol.
Thank you. I finally got a TIG welder after decades of DIY welding with Oxy/Acet, stick and MIG. I'm really enjoying the versatility of the TIG process which includes TIG brazing.
Glad to hear that👍. The fact you can have about 10 different 1-2lbs tubes of assorted filler rods and fix almost anything that’s metal with a tig welder is literally almost a magical power lol. Minimal sparks, virtually no smoke, ability to weld virtually anything, what’s not to love 😀.
Outstanding video... the practical world of a welder organised by a real practical education with thinking out loud explanations.. sets the bar above any other welding video ive seen to date !!
Thanks for the kind words😀👍. I will be doing a video with a ton of break tests and destructive tests comparing mig/stick/tig so everyone can really understand the strengths and weaknesses. I will definitely demonstrate many more differences.
I was a teacher(not welding), and I am quite impressed by your teaching skills. One thing I found was that by planning lessons, anticipating questions, it increased my knowledge of the subject. I wonder if the same happens for you while preparing your videos. Great work you do, many thanks!
So one of the odd things with the channel is due to severe time constraints I basically have zero prep time, often only have a idea in my head of what to tackle, and just sit down and do it in one shot and that’s it. Most of the editing I have to do is to remove trains and airplanes from the background audio (I am near an airport and 100 foot from an active rail road). Some days it can take 2-3 hours to shoot a 30min video because of how long I have to wait for the audio to get clear. I also have done a ton of research in the past on what I talk about, but it’s very uncommon for me to do much studying for a particular video. It’s not that I couldn’t benefit from it, I just don’t have the time I would like lol. In the near future I will have a bit more time to spend editing and researching stuff.
@@makingmistakeswithgregThank you for your efforts Greg ❤️🔥🙏
"If you want to learn something, read it. If you want to understand something, write about it. If you want to master something, teach it." 👏 👏
Great information and a great video! Thank you!
New welder here. Been gluing stuff (non liability stuff!!) together with my 90 amp FCAW machine, and it has been a happy experience. But I just bought primewelds TIG 325x on sale. FYI, from my perspective as a hobbyist\property owner, the slower speed of TIG doesnt bother me, because the actual welding time of my projects has been a tiny fraction of the overall project time, and also its fun. The time needed to gain the skill also doesnt bother me, since Im excited about it and look forward to it. However, I am a little anxious about the extra cleaning time it is going to require, since I have to admit it has been quite fun to blast through mill scale and even light rust from junkyard steel with my flux core machine. Greg, continued 🙏 to you.
No doubt you will have to prep material far more with tig. Mill scale is a complete no go with tig, or surface rust. However if you prep the material at the start you will have no spatter to clean up, super precise/clean welds, and the ability to weld virtually any thickness. Stick and mig are great for a lot of stuff, but it’s actually easier to do clean precise welds with tig. Once you can run decent beads your ability to weld oddball stuff will be through the roof. Welding strong welds on nuts for projects, repairing tools, welding aluminum, etc, all become reality with tig.
Very good informational video!!
I will say the way I compensate for the cold start on multiple passes is I start left then right and last middle out both directions. I'm not at all saying this is the proper way or even the right way, its just what I have found works for me !
I agree completely. Today, I was telling my friend, a sign painter, that she should consider getting a tig machine so she can make her own signs. I taught her flux core and she immediately made 3 signs. Now she needs a sheet metal sign and I'm going to have her come to my shop to help me make her sign, using TIG.
Last week I repaired a friends broken cast iron saw part. In 45 minutes I had it all brazed back together and he's happily using his fancy table saw. The week before I made, In essence, four sheet metal tanks. I used pulse with finger switch and dialed in the settings so that I flew over the edges, fusing with only occasional filler. My last job was welding round bars on a horse stall. I tried stick and mig and settled on tig because there was no spatter and no smoke soot and no flux. It was by far the best way to do small round parts, 1/2 " and 3/4". I could paint with no cleanup, no fuss, no muss, no wire brushing.
100%, what you described is what makes tig so great. With a handful of assorted fillers and a single bottle of argon you can literally tig weld almost anything. It works so well on small parts, repairs, and oddball jobs. You can put down the size weld you want, and not be limited to oversized welds or grinding of welds. Provided the material can be prepped and it’s not exposed to wind/outdoors tig works great. It would suck if it wasn’t available to use lol.
Great information on TIG vs. stick. TIG welding is therapeutic for me.
100%. It’s calming, quiet, takes a ton of focus, and makes such clean welds. 😀👍
Fantastic explanation of the intricacies of welding; great job 👏
Thanks 👍. A lot of people are afraid of tig and don’t understand the benefits. It gives a ton of capability once you get through the steep initial learning curve.
Thanks once again for the time and information you go to for us. Very appreciated, Greg
No problem 😀👍
Another thing to add is that i can TIG weld 5 feet away from my dining room table; i have to go 10 feet away and be outside for stick.
100%. It’s nice to not have tons of sparks and smoke everywhere lol. I really think more people should look at tig in the home shop. No, it’s not the perfect tool for every job, but for a ton of what people weld it would likely work.
I want to unplug the stove and tig on the kitchen counter. Only place I could at home.
No *Blops!* with Tig. (blops = Spatter.)
Easier to clean up your welds when you’re doing “furniture-grade” welds.
Another trick is to use er309 stainless rod when you’re after a “smooth and lovely” weld. You won’t give up strength, even if you’ll spend (a lot) more on your rods.
@@carpediemarts705yes, that’s the 220 outlet here.
For thin stuff - 16 gauge square steel tube, and thinner 4130 - I’ve used a regular 110 outlet. Good for up to 85 amps or so.
@@dennisyoung4631 presuming a dual voltage machine
Nicely explained. Now, we can increase TIG productivity with TIP-TIG process , in a way that on the beginning of the short weld, adding the filler material is delayed for the rime where metal starts to melt and than we starts adding wire trough wire feeder. Also, to improve penetration in fillet weld, especially on thick aluminum, we can preheat starting point and additionally during TIG or TIP-TIG welding TO use gas mixture of 20-30% of Helium in Argon. Only dissadvantage of increasing productivity in above described ways is increased price of equipment. Anyway, in all cases, Quality to Productivity/Safety ratio must be take in account, as You mentioned in excellent videoclip posted.
Best regards from Germany!
Tip tig seems like a cool option for production work. No doubt it could be setup to work much the same as doing it by hand, just with more metal deposition. The way you described tip tig adding filler when the molten puddle is established is exactly why tig avoids the lack of fusion present with mig and stick. You don’t have to add filler to start fusing metal together, therefore you have more consistent fusion start to finish.
Excellent lesson
Glad you liked it. I will be doing a bunch more break tests and bend tests to really show the benefits and drawbacks of tig 😀👍
Thank u Greg each an every lesson u teach all of us is an incredible abundance of information we learn that is not mentioned in any other channels out here granted there are a few exceptions such as Bob Muffat,Dusty from Pacific Arc ,Justin from th The Fabricator ,this old guy Tony ,6061 channel an finally a gentleman whom I like thank very much An that’s Jody from welding tricks an tips thanks to u Greg along with all this incredible community I thought that unless I went to a tech school it was gonna be th only way to learn ….u guys really go way out of ur way for all of us an I hope that one day I can pass along th knowledge I have gained thank u🙏🏽🙏🏽🙏🏽🙏🏽God Bless always 🙏🏽🙏🏽🙏🏽
My superpower is I’m able to apply all the downsides of mig and stick to tig 👌🏻👌🏻
Interesting video for sure, great breakdown of the differences between the processes I have wondered what the real world use case for TIG is and you summed it up really well
Tig basically excels at defect free welds that are very small and clean of spatter. It’s very useful for repairing things or making small items. The average person could probably benefit from knowing how to do it, but for many it won’t have much practical application over a simple mig welder 😀.
Thanks Greg. This answers alot of questions.
No problem 😀👍
I have owned a really nice TIG/Stick welder for 15 years now. Stick welds just amazing! Guess I should learn how to use the TIG side of it sooner or later, huh...
Once you master basic tig welding you will be shocked at how useful it is. You will also be surprised at how strong tig welds actually are. Because you can deposit super small high fusion defect free welds, a small tig weld will actually be as strong as a bigger mig and stick weld depending on how the weld is stressed. With stick and mig you are limited to weld size, you simply can’t make small welds and have high fusion on thick material.
Was in a similar boat. Got a powerarc 210stl as a gift and only used stock for several years. Decided to try tig and got the couple hundred in required accessories. Now I have only stick welded 2-3 times in the last 2 years. 90% of the time if you can stick it, you can Tig it 5 times better. Less cleanup, way more confidence in my weld and I actually think it's easier once you get over the initial hurdles.
Excellent video ,and explanation 👍 I think each welding process has its place and purpose although tig in my opinion has the most control but you also need to skilled .just my two cents.
That's a good analysis of the welding processes, and a good demonstration. I typically try to avoid welding stick with 3/32 or smaller because slag inclusion is common; my guess has been because it takes too much flux coating on the rod for those smaller rods. I've found .023 mig wire to be versatile for thin metal, to dirty metal, up to reasonably thicker steel, because it is easy to work with by adjusting it a little hotter colder faster slower for metal thickness, oil contamination, paint, or what-have-you. I prefer .035 mig for aluminum, because it also is pretty adjustable for volts, wire speed, and speed of travel, given the weld position and the variety of thicknesses and contamination, but it is machine capability dependent. TIG is my favorite for stainless, and small strong (and pretty) welds.
Your observations is right on with what I have seen. Those 1/16th 6013 rods seem to have flat out too much flux. They work ok on flat position lap welds but it’s slag inclusion city on fillet welds. The 1/16th 6011s run about the best and 5/64 rods of assorted sizes aren’t too bad either. Honestly if I am down to stick welding thin material I am already frustrated 😅. .023 MiG wire solves all of this issues like you said, it actually makes welding thin material comically easy in comparison to stick. So many people have asked for more tips on 1/16th rods on sheet metal and I pretty much left it as “buy a flux core or mig welder lol.
@@makingmistakeswithgreg You know, I've never run a flux core; I wasn't interested because of all the spatter. I've run Outershield, and also Innershield up to Lincoln's largest diameter, but not straight flux core. I bought 1/16th inch rods once, even tried running it at ridiculously high amps, horrible stuff. We got some .023 wire for doing our own body work 😏 on a couple of trucks... and then you use it for other things because you don't want to change the spool 😄 Turned out to be a very versatile good easy to use wire, it made a believer out me.
Very nice tutorial. Well explained. I appreciate your efforts. Thanks for sharing
No problem 😀👍
TIG indeed is the ultimate secret weapon. SilBr and AluBr tig brazing are some of the most underrepresented and useful processes you can imagine. As well, augmented with MIG. My go-to for doing thick material (steel / mysterymetal) quickly has always been a super hot root pass with TIG using ER308 rod (yes yes stainless on mild, I know.....but it shores up the chromium and vanadium content in the base metal prior to the MIG pass....) then a heavy MIG weave over it, or a series of stringers as needed. A weave is going to give you the dwell time with the MIG to really let that arc dig in and form a good nugget at the start. The ER308 TIG root I have found to be the key to tie in the hot cap into the root. ER70S6 being a NiCroMo alloy, adding in the [additional] chromium and vanadium into solution with the ER308, helps tie it all together. The 308 rod also helps dissolution of carbon in the root and cap and can help prevent carbide precip.
Definitely. MiGs ability to get sidewall fusion is good, its main limitation is very poor root fusion on fillet welds and any joint that forces you to weld into a corner. By tigging a root you no longer have a situation where your mig puddle is thick, and your base to weld on is flat/wide which really helps mig out. For the same reason why short arc mig can produce strong welds on an open root beveled plate, at no point are you forced to weld through a thick molten pool.
I typically weld in the field and use stick for repair. I have not had a comeback from weld failure yet but preparation is everything to ensure this.
Prep is king no doubt. Stick makes reliable and clean welds, but poor prep, bad fitups, and not fixing screw ups is a sure fire way for welds to fail.
This was a gosh darn masterclass
Glad you liked it 😀👍. I am going to be covering a whole video just on comparisons with cut&etch/ break tests to really demonstrate the strengths and weaknesses of each process. That way everyone can understand more about welding in general 😀.
Each process has its place. One is not better than another
I know this is not apples to apples but I’m currently using a 120v tig. I feel like that 120v tig is almost as strong as the 220v mig or maybe it’s equivalent. Maybe how you said, Tig gets down to the root. Awesome video! Sorry if I’m sounding irrational.
So on 120v it is entirely possible to weld 3/8th steel with absurdly strong welds with tig. With mig it’s not really possible. Stick welding is even a challenge on 120v because of breaker trips with many machines. If I only had 120v and needed to weld anything with very strong welds 100% tig is the way to go. The main limiting factor on 120v with tig is you can’t do weaves on thicker material, you can’t carry enough heat due to limited amperage. So you just run multiple stringer welds and call it good 😀.
Tig being almost as strong as mig??
Other way around👍
What a terrific video. Thank you.
No problem 😀👍. I will do a video with a bunch of break tests and cut and etches comparing mig/tig/stick to really demonstrate the differences 😀.
Thank you so much Greg.
No problem 😀👍
try tig welding in wind or a draught coming through the joint porosity city ,
Great Info! Thank you
No problem 😀👍
Another fantastic video Greg, you're absolutely essential viewing for anyone looking to inform themselves further in the welding world.
Thanks for the kind words 😀👍.
It comes down to what’s needed. I never see a stainless exhaust stick welded, I’ve never seen a tig torch on a farm.
Great video sir! Learned a lot. Could the lack of fusion problem be partially solved by starting the weld at the midpoint and working out to the edge? Or would that cause more issues?
So I made a video that in many ways touches on this. I did numerous starts and stops on a plate, broke it, and showed how after every start you have a small change in fusion. This is why it’s best to avoid restarts as much as possible, and not weld over tacks that aren’t ground down (the same lack of fusion will often happen when welding over a tack). For the sake of strength the lack of fusion will likely be better starting at the edge and moving in, because the weld area will get hotter due to a lack of metal to pull heat out of the weld. If you were to start in the middle and weld both directions you would have a bigger lack of fusion in the middle of the plate. Even though the ends would be burned in better I think the LOF in the middle would be a worse defect.
Here is the video dealing with starts and stops: ruclips.net/video/KSuqvvvGYak/видео.htmlsi=_O59S6plOZxPPgVc
Pretty good presentation, however, you need to flip your two weld examples as they are both 180 degrees out of phase. Lack of fusion is on right side of the SMAW on the bottom and the weld fillet with the LOF is on the top left of ther broken off piece. Same goes for the GTA weld on the left.
Very interesting!
Very well done- learning a lot -
Glad you’re learning 😀👍.
Excellent video! Great Stuff!!
Thanks, I am making a whole video with just destructive tests to show differences, I am sure you will like that 😀👍.
7018 is a fool proof if the rods are kept well . But it all comes down to moisture and grain structure. Also impact testing in cold situations
Nice work mate. ❤🎉🎉🎉
Glad you liked the video. I will be doing a video on mostly break/bend tests comparing tig to other processes and that will be real interesting 😀.
for practice I weld some bead Up into air then curve around up and down to get all positions - many feet of weld beed - only materials is filler rod - no cleaning - make a globe / art etc -
also practice using gas welding for tig - aiming heat /control is most similar to tig but cost is less - i had a tig welder in living room -
Great tips. So many people perfect the easiest welds, taking challenging welds is how you get really good 👍
I really enjoyed testing the topic. Would you consider testing the strength of braze TIG compared to a regular TIG ER70.
I will get to that, I can tell you that silicon bronze is incredibly strong but it is not nearly as strong as er70. Silicon bronze is around 50k tensile strength. Because it has zero penetration (no base material melted) unless both sides of something are “brazed” with it the joint will be fairly weak. Keep in mind that this is mostly talking about material thicker than 3/16th, on thinner material (like auto body to maybe 1/8th) the material can’t generate enough force to break the braze more than likely.
Thank you for the insight!
I would love to have a mig or tig machine. I only have a Hobart 8500 and it’s good welder but you have to worry about the motor and the rheostat setting
very informative but i have never tried tig. i do i have a few welders a miller thunderbolt ac also a titanium mig 140 and a vulcan omnipro. i was tempted to buy the tig torch and pedal for the omnipro but then wanted the spool gun for aluminum. Now i am definitely gonna buy the tig setup for it as i see in your video list that you can tig weld aluminum. thanks again for all the info
You can tig weld aluminum if you have a ac/machine, many machines that can tig won’t do a/c, so verify this first. Tig without a/c is still worth it to have. You can do a ton of things with tig that you can’t with other processes. It’s actually very useful for general work, since the slow weld speed isn’t a huge issue.
@steeveejee4647
Todays fun fact, the pedal is not a good idea for TIG. A fingertip "micro switch" push button is the way to go. The harder you press, the more power you get.
@@ducewags thanks for the info do you recommend any tig torch that will fit the omnipro?
@@makingmistakeswithgreg oh ok ithe only ac machine i have is the miller thunderbolt so i guess that is out of the question . still gonna get a torch for the omnipro then maybe a spool gun down the line or a better machine that i can tig aluminum with
Spot on let me add as an X-ray technician the tig welders generally know if and where the defect is 🧐
Definitely. MiG and stick can hide many flaws that you would clearly see as you’re tig welding. Thanks for your service as a X-ray tech, you help people become better welders whether they want to or not 😅
I'd like to see TIG vs. Gas welding with oxygen / acetylen.
I definitely will do that. I can oxy fuel weld flat plates good, but haven’t done many fillet welds with it. I will have to practice a bunch and do some testing. I can tell you that even using the same wire (er70s2) as tig, the oxy fuel weld will be weaker. When acetylene burns it produces co2 shielding gas, and that gas interacts with the molten metal. The end result is typically a significant loss of ductility and ultimate tensile strength. Although the huge heat input will likely have a softening effect on the steel, I think the weld would break on a bend test on 3/8th plate. I will have to try 😀👍
@makingmistakeswithgreg welding inside an angle isn't easy with gas. I assume the same thing with the excessive heat will weaken the metal. My thoughts were that many say that if you can weld it with TIG you can weld it with oxy/acetylen. I have never tried TIG but i can weld both stainless and alu with good results with oxy/acetylen.
@@makingmistakeswithgreg "loss of ductility"? Seriously?
Due to the heat input levels involved and timeframe during which the cooling down takes, oxy acetylene welding will give a softer therefore more ductile weld deposit than almost any other process.
Tensile strength? No. For tensile strength tig and low hy stick will come out on top, mig being not far behind when steel is clean and in flat position so full spray transfer can be used.
Great video
Glad you liked it 😀👍. I will follow it up with a bunch of testing in a video to demonstrate more of the strengths.
Well that DESERVED a subscribe & an up-thumb.
But no mention of using helium in the mix to increase heat in tig
Helium is interesting because the heat comes from the increase in voltage required to maintain an arc. In a way you get the heat output of a super long arc (with a wide useless arc cone) but with a tight focused/narrow arc cone. You can hit the duty cycle of a machine faster with helium. I may get a bottle of it for experiments, the crap thing is it’s sitting at something like a 400$ swap out right now. I have never seen d/c helium done on steel, only aluminum. I bet the penetration would have to be deep, it better be for the cost lol.
No need to use helium in the mix other than when welding heavy guage aluminium. Similar to how there is no need to use hydrogen in the mix other than when welding heavy guage austenitic stainless steels ie 300 series. Both have the same end effect as far as penetration is concerned
Thanks Greg, that was really interesting. Could you have achieved fusion if a 6010 was used as a root pass?
6010 would have achieved far better root fusion, but it is weaker in tension than 7018. You definately can do that but it should be avoided on anything but mild steel (due to hydrogen in the 6010s flux could cause hydrogen cracking in/near the weld). One of the downsides to stick is just like short circuit mig, it doesn’t have the best penetration with common higher strength rods. It did fuse the root in the video, just barely, and that’s typical. Stepping up to 1/8th or 5/32 7018s will give slightly more penetration.
@makingmistakeswithgreg Yes👍 and that goes back to your previous video mechanical vs tensile strength😉
I would love to use TIG more often, but I struggle to weld galvanized steel with this process
If you’re welding galvanized tig definitely won’t help you much. That’s one of the unfortunate things with tig, coatings and metal treatments instantly eliminate it from being used lol.
With stick welding and MIG welding, the filler is the electrode and more of the filler elements and alloying is burned away, compared to TIG welding.For the same weld, MIG welding requires about twice the power or heat, that TIG welding requires. It is "easier" to weld wide gaps with MIG than with TIG welding. With gas welding, some gap is desirable.
Thanks Greg…paulie in Orlando
Greg, do you have any experience with laser?
So I have watched a ton of training videos on it and seen the welds first hand, but I have not used it. I am on the fence about buying a setup to use. Ultimately some form of laser or vaporized metal deposition will take over tig, but that’s a long way off. Tig is so simple and effective that achieving the same heat input with a laser requires a lot of power, expense, and safety precautions. I have seen videos of guys using them without following proper ppe guidelines and that’s pretty scary.with a class 4 laser with 2k+ watts.
@@makingmistakeswithgreg Laser also has it's pro's and cons, just like any other process. The main things I think with laser are, easy to train an operator when doing like repetitive production type work, and the sheer speed it's phenomenally fast. And the welds look even cleaner than TiG. The other big benefit I see is very low heat input versus penetration, it's far less heat input than TiG. The thing with lasers is the heat is extremely concentrated into like a wobbling 1mm spot, and because the rest of the material doesn't have to conduct electricity, the heat doesn't spread out as much. However I've heard some people say having problems with thin stainless parts cracking etc. Surface prep isn't an issues, I watched one video where a guy welded some 304 stainless pipe, and welded right over the factory printed numbers. And the numbers were still legible, even UNDER the weld! I think what's going on is, once the steel is molten, it becomes almost transparent to the laser which allows the laser to burn right thru and past any surface rust/paint etc. It then wobbles the laser around to move like a melted cone along the direction of weld. Another benefit like with mild steel, argon gas isn't required, a lot of them just use dry nitrogen, but the gas flow rate is a LOT. It sounds like blasting the part with a blow gun, it's a lot of shielding gas at high volume and high pressure. The setup for a big laser is a big upfront cost too, you need 3 phase power for the larger machines, and a water cooler machine for the laser machine too. The benefits once you have the machine set up for the job though it's pretty wild, like you set up the machine for like welding an inside corner joint on two 1/4" plates. You just put the gun at one end, at the right angle, then pull the trigger and the metal fill wire pushes you along at the correct and very consistent travel speed and when you reach the end, you just release the trigger. Dialing in the laser power, wobble shape, laser power in watts, wire type and size, and wire feed speed takes quite a bit of experimenting to "dial it down" and get things just right. But in like a factory you can have the engineers do all that, and write up WPS's and program the machines, and then the operator just has to press the correct menu button for that pre-programmed set of parameters and squeeze a trigger.
The best use cases I think are for like thin materials where warping is a concern. A good example would be welding mirror polished stainless or gold colored mirror finishes. Since there's no spatter and very minimal heat input, those types of stuff can be welded and not mess up the very fine mirror polish. There's a guy on youtube from Korea that has a comparison of welding a stainless steel pipe onto a flat plate with both TiG and laser, and the amount of part warping with TiG is quite a bit more than the laser welded part.
No process is stronger than another, but penetration, material, and application make different processes more suitable for different situations.
would flux core has the same issues outlined as the mig ?
Great question. So flux core (self shielded) has a set of interesting problems of its own. On steel thicker than 1/4, common .035 self shielded wire will often have internal weld porosity. It typically has far more penetration than short circuit mig but the welds tend to be weaker in practice (on thicker material) than hardwire due to defects. The porosity has to do with how fast the molten pool solidifies on thicker material and can’t easily be eliminated without going to .045 or bigger wire. Dual shield wire (gas shielded with flux core) doesn’t have those issues.
For many things you might weld with flux core self shielded (yard art, car exhaust, auto body, 3/16th steel) the difference in strength isn’t that significant between mig and flux core. When you get into 1/4in or thicker material, higher strength alloys, or things that are exposed to high vibration/impact forces, I would avoid self shielded flux core. I will have a video out in the next few weeks talking more about the ideal use and for all common welding processes and that will definitely shed more light on this.
These days i rarely find TIG to be worth the time. Alum or something really thin, yes. Just about anything else I'm not wasting my time with it. My brother was a die-hard TIG guy for many years, works mostly in the marine industry. He got a hot repair job with about 200" of weld on weathered 3/16 steel. I told him i'd do one side for him, threw my MIG/bottle in the truck and went over. Quick pass with the wire wheel and started welding, meanwhile he's sitting there doing tons of cleaning and prep to get the material in good enough shape to TIG. Thanks to all the additional prep required for TIG i was completely done with my half and he was just starting to weld his side, had maybe 4" done. It's been 7 years and both sides are still holding strong, so what was the point of TIG welding it? He has since incorporated a lot more Stick and MIG into his work.
Tigs benefits mostly come from what it’s capable of doing, which is small precise high fusion welds on any material. Anytime you’re talking hundreds of inches of weld on common materials there isn’t much benefit to tig. Where mig falls apart is welding things like cast iron, tool steels, copper, very thin materials, aluminum (aluminum mig welds typically have internal porosity on anything but new clean aluminum and are weaker than tig), and thick material. Mig also requires more skill to weld out of position than tig, requires more money investment to weld all common materials (multiple gas mixtures, expensive spools of wire, etc), and in many cases mig forces you to put down bigger welds than are needed (especially vertical up). They both have their draw backs that’s for sure.
Love your videos Greg, but I must bring something up that is becoming more common and needs to be addressed. In the topic of root fusion, handheld laser will have the most compared to arc processes. I know your videos are about arc welding, but I just thought I would suggest at least mentioning this, especially considering that the major players on the welding industry are adopting.
The limitation of laser is power, expense, and safety. A common 1k-1.5k laser that’s 6-7k+ is only rated for 1/4inch steel, and actually won’t make a very strong single pass weld due to poor penetration. When you get into 2-4k lasers things get more interesting but so does the 18k+ costs for cheap ones. The other major issue is safety, it’s not safe (or likely osha legal) to laser weld with a class 4 laser without a ton of safety containment. This can push the cost of such systems sky high because of the danger of eye damage. Generally a whole area of a shop has to be sectioned off with restricted access.
Ultimately some form of laser, electron beam, or metal vapor deposition type of process will overtake tig. Laser is simply too expensive and too limiting to take over for tig anytime soon. I don’t know that we will ever see 2k fiber lasers for 1k and that’s about what the world would need to make it practical for an average person. For thin wall stainless production work absolutely it’s a great system.
In another video could you get into TIG welding material of different thickness.
I definitely will. I wil be doing a video directly on tig welding super thin material and a video on welding different thicknesses to each other. 👍
Interesting stuff. However...LOL On 12mm plate 2G fillet with TIG, we run 350A and a 6mm filler rod. 3 passes on a non-grooved joint. Penetration is quite a bit different than with 190A.
No doubt that kind of amperage and bigger filler rods can get a ton of weld down fast. If only that size machine was more affordable 😀.
I never work with steel of that thickness but if i did what do you think about a coming in hot with a 6010 root pass then capping it with 7018
So 6010 blows 7018 out of the water on penetration. The downside is 6010 will put hydrogen into the weld/material. If the material is mild steel and nothing that is susceptible to hydrogen embrittlement, it could work. If it was higher strength steel you would want to ether bevel the plate to get a bigger weld throat depth, put down more passes, or weld both sides (all with 7018). Also, I didn’t mention it but rod size does play a role to a certain extent. 1/2in plate would be better welded by 1/8th or 5/32 rods and I bet at higher amperage and a bigger rod it might be slightly better. 1/2inch at 50 degrees is no joke to fuse, even on a smaller coupon lol.
Get your settings and travel speed "dialed in" and the 7018 will be all good, no need to use 6010 at all👍
Have worked before on heavy guage sleeves and platework for a particular industry where all of the welding for fillets was carried out using the same consumables, all low hydrogen. 7018 and 8018. The butts were tig rooted due to standards required but thats irrelevant if youre talking fillets.
6010 is a rod used for roots in pipework. Thats pretty much it. (Well, outside of the usa anyway)
That particular industry has a 100% requirement. Procedure testing including root and face bends, macro etching, tensile strenght testing, charpy v notch testing, all passed allowing the procedures to be used through that particular company.
Ultrasound Testing of all work where usable was passed.
28:15 are those Thorogood MocToe boots.
Yes they are, good catch 👍
Providing done properly, cleanliness of parts to be welded, amperage voltage travel speed therefore heat input ranges adhered to, tig welding gives a better quality metal deposition than any other process.
Stronger? Yes.
Suitable for application? Not always (due to speed and level of productivity where other processes will meet the levels required)
Mig/mag or dualshield meets standard required for structural steelwork.
Stick, particularly low hydrogen, meets requirements for most applications of high pressure carbon steel pipework (not all materials).
Sub-arc meets requirements when heavy guage/thickness materials are involved (often after tig is used for initial passes when non ferrous materials are concerned).
Yep, you covered it well. 👍👍
Great 😇
7018 is a fool proof if the rods are kept well . But it all comes down to moisture and grain structure.
If you wanted your stick weld to hold, you would use a higher heat and agitate the puddle with a weave. Also, you would get more penetration, use AC instead of DC. If you want something to hold, use stick.
Believe it or not weaving lowers penetration with stick, because the molten pool is thicker and the arc will loose heat input. You might gain sidewall fusion but on a single root pass on a fillet weld you will lose some root fusion.
With TIG you have a bigger heat affected zone and most welds will fail at or in the heat affected zone. MIG has the lowest HEZ unless you go to EB or laser. When starting with MIG it is an idea to start in front of where you want the start of the werl then go to your start point and progres over the actual start point.
Heat affected zone failures comes down to material mostly. Chromoly and aluminum often fail in the heat affected zone, which why in both cases the weld strength isn’t often a huge concern over things like ductility. Chromoly is often under welded with a lower strength filler. Tig also has the benefit of being able to slowly ramp up and down the heat input to prevent hot short cracks, this is far harder to do with mig and stick which is one reason why you don’t commonly see those used for tool steel repairs. Still though the heat input can be a concern with Tig and could require a different post weld heat treatment on something over mig to meet a desired performance of the welded part.
il n'y a pas de procédé de soudage toujours supérieur à un autre. Car le TIG donne une plus grand ZAT, et à un coup économique beaucoup plus cher que le MMA . Par contre ce qu'il ne faut jamais oublier,c'est quand MMA c'est le diamètre de l'électrode qui commande dans une certaine plage l'intensité, alors qu'en MIG c'est l'épaisseur de la pièce qui fait la loi. Le MIG s'étant popularisé, énormément de gens font des collage sans sans rendre compte en outrepassant les limites du soudable en MIG de leur poste. La sagesse est de prendre un MIG pouvant faire aussi le MMA et de changer de procéder pour faire d'importantes épaisseurs.
Ps sur des aciers alliés même en préchauffant dans tous les cas , vous aurez moins de soucis en MMA qu'en TIG;
I wonder how Tig compares to Atomic Hydrogen Arc Welding? (Ever since I learned of it, I've been dieing to find some place that still has the system so I could try it!)
Not good as TIG. Hydrogen enter in weld pool and may cause cracking.
Technology merging tig and hydrogen atomic welding is plasma weldnig with argon + he .
maybe preheat the piece for the lack of fusion at the mig & stick? (3/16 to 3/8)
I did a video on preheating and believe it or not preheating will not get rid of the lack of fusion with stick or mig at that point. The only way to get rid of it fully is to have the weld start off of what you’re welding and then come onto it with a hot molten pool. This is also why you shouldn’t start or stop on corners of material, you will have a lack of fusion right at a point that stress gets focused on. Tig has the ability to make full fusion start to finish and doesn’t require starting tabs to get rid of defects. To a certain extent “run in speed” and other adjustments with a mig machine can help reduce it, and hot start can help stick a bit, but they will never be able to achieve the same level of consistency in fusion as tig.
The machine matters lot
Pulse Tig 😊 once you get used to it you’ll achieve wonders
Any comment pre heated joints pro's/cons or pure argon (Mag) weld strength
Lots of thoughts, hope they help:
Preheat will not increase penetration. The extent of what it will do it possibly improve sidewall fusion, but this will be limited at best. I did an entire video on this and even at 1k preheat there was virtually nothing improved in penetration. Preheat flattens welds and the welds stay hot for longer, which gives the illusion of more fusion, but the root penetration doesn’t change much. That’s a limitation of the gas mixture and the process.
Speaking of gas mixtures, gas mixtures have a huge effect on penetration. 100% co2 produces much better penetration than c25, but at the expense of weld tensile strength. When you get into spray arc mixtures like c10, tri mix, argon/oxygen blends, etc the differences can be significant. Every mixture provides a different penetration profile and different weld strength numbers. 100% pure argon should only be used for spray welding of aluminum with wire. If you use it with a normal wire welder it will do two things, 1) it will limit penetration and wetting out of the weld, and 2 it will likely cause an unstable arc. Pure argon will produce very weak welds because of the above weld issues. The reason it works for aluminum is due to the high voltage required mixed with the difference in material.
JMHO but on 3/8 plate like that I am jamming a 6011 root in there then a 7018 cap
Maybe I got this wrong, I melt the metal and a filler to poke around the puddle. I use oxygen/acetolyn
Anyone got any tips to stop condensation in the helmet? got a A40 Savage, its one of the reasons I was thinking about selling a kidney and buying a 3m speedglas because I read that they prevent condensation.
On the face shield? I usually have a biff over my nose/mouth. It helps with the condensation, unless it's very cold outside like now in the UK. Minus 3C and I have to use a oxy-propane to cut for a minute and heat my face shield for nine :D
So I have talked with some guys on this, and never came up with a trick that works well. I know most anti fog stuff doesn’t work well. I do know that wearing a respirator that has a valve that vents down does work decent. Even a cloth mask with a valve that’s on the bottom could work. Wearing a welders neck sock and pulling it over your nose will help some. Beyond that you might be able to adjust your hood outward from your face a bit via the head gear to get a bit more air in there so it stays clear.
@@makingmistakeswithgreg
That's another video topic covered :)
Some of my diver friends (the basic kind, not welders) use a soap covered damp rag to wipe the inside of diving mask. Apparently it prevents fogging.
I tried, but applied to much detergent so I had a blurry face shield. Fix one problem with a bigger one.
But jokes aside, being hygropgobic, the thin detergent layer should not attract moisture.
Just breathe through your nose
I had so many people telling me it was bad to learn on TIG first, but it seems to me that you actually intuit what you're doing. Until you understand what's actually happening with the base metal and the puddle, you ain't going nowhere. I feel like you can blast away with stick without genuinely understanding the arc welding process.
You’re right, Tig allows you to see everything and gives you an insight that mig and stick flat out don’t. Learning to tig weld first is how I learned to weld, and I have zero regrets. You didn’t make a mistake at all learning to tig first, you will have an insight to how welding works that most people won’t have unless they did tig weld. Tig also builds very good hand eye coordination and builds an understanding of correct travel speed vs heat input. This directly translates to other welding processes. It’s far easier to go from tig to mig/stick, than mig/stick to tig.
My assumption before I watch:
No. Correct welds with both are equally strong. With Tig it is easier to prevent lack of fusion defects because you FIRST melt the root, and THEN add filler. So you can often partially see the root, before adding filler metal, to cover it up.
With aluminium in medium guages - 4mm through 12mm, or anything you can weld in one pass, then MIG will add less heat that TIG, and so will end up stronger. The weakest part of any aluminum weld is not the weld itself but the heat affected zone adjacent to the weld. Less heat means less heat affected metal.
Aluminum is a tricky metal. On one hand you are correct, the HAZ zone is the weakest link provided the weld is defect free. The problem is defects. I have done a ton of aluminum repairs (boats, trailers, and random stuff) and countless welds fail because of defects. Crater eyes, under cut, suck back, porosity, poor penetration, etc, are major issues with aluminum mig. Hell most aluminum mig welds have internal porosity that isn’t even known about. Very rarely will a crack exist at the heat affected zone and be the cause of a failure vs a crack right down a weld due to one of the above issues. Tig aluminum allows you to use clean filler wire with no contaminates (mig has oil/ crap on the spool), you can “boil out” crap in the material without just concealing it, and you can control weld defects far easier with tig. Modern mig machines setup for aluminum do a far better job via adjustments of run in speed, crater fills, heat input controls, etc. However the welds of tig are far less likely to crack or fail under normal use than mig due to fewer defects.
@makingmistakeswithgreg I have had the opposite experience while building aluminium boats, where the TIG welds in middle guages have failed first. I have exclusively been using pulse mig machines & strict procedures, so I wonder if that makes a difference?
In the welds we test - and we are constantly testing, all the mig welds fail immediately adjacent to the weld fillet..
I often hear : ductility of Tig is higher ?
So the filler rod tig uses is the same that mig can use. Generally mig is er70s6 and tig is er70s2 (s6 has more deoxidizers) but the base strength of the same wire is used is the same. However the shielding gas used will have an effect on weld performance I have a feeling the 100% argon of tig would produce a more ductile weld than c25. This is because c25 gas has carbon dioxide gas and that lowers ductility. The same reason why 6010 welds are less ductile than 7018 is due to the production of co2 gas. The crap thing with mig is you can’t use 100% argon with steel welding because it produces a very ropey poor penetration weld. Lower co2 gas mixtures like c10 or spray arc blends can increase ductility but they require a lot of voltage to maintain an arc. No free lunch lol.
So you welded ⅛inch 7018 stick at 90 amps? No wonder you had cold roll and fusion issues. You should be running 120 to 130. I would say, with the small piece, 120. Redo the test with it set at 120 and see the difference!
It’s 3/32 rods, I stated there was a change in plans due to the weld size being more than adequate with 3/32 rods there was no need to go to 1/8. The lack of fusion is caused by the fact metal is deposited anytime there is an arc struck, it’s an unavoidable defect with stick welding on fillet welds, the loss of penetration right after a start. It happens with mig as well. Tig it can be avoided because you can control heat input and fusion separate from filler.
@makingmistakeswithgreg those beads are way to big for 3/32 rod. The fusion I'm talking about is the part you said was slag underneath. That slag got included because of cold roll. Since you don't have a filter for your lens I am purely speculating here but I believe you are probably mixing slow travel speed with stuffing your rod with temp being to low. I absolutely would run ⅛ inch rod on this joint. I would run 120 (honestly I would run closer to 130) and I would maintain my travel speed based on proper puddle size not how big I want it. The weld should be around the width of 2 bare rods of the size you are using. Roughly the width of 2.5 coated rods. Something that would absolutely help you get a much cleaner start, start just inside the the beginning of your weld zone. Do a very small loop backwards in a half circle about the width of the desired puddle. Extend your arc length just a hair, travel a little slower then normal for about an inch, then tighten up your arc length and speed up your travel. This will make your fusion on your start a little better.
I'll say this. The guys that can do all processes will choose TIG every time it's an option.
Not only is it relaxing but you know it’s strong 😀👍
Bullshit
The defects he speaks are only defects if you don't know what you're doing as a welder
On a 2 inch stick weld you don't start right at the beginning in that case you'd start at the end of the plate and drag it back to the start so your rod is hot all the way and you won't get lack of fusion
Single pass Stick weld a 1/4inch or thicker steel fillet weld and break it towards the face. There will be a reduction in fusion at the 1/4inch mark. Same with mig. This is precisely why restarts are ground down, starting tabs are used (so the potential defects are off the material, and tacks are ground down. The same exact thing happens when you weld over a non ground down tack be it open root or just a tack on a fillet weld. On pipe welding you will have a lack of fusion going into a unfeathered tack and that’s open root with a agressive rod (6010). I am sorry but you’re mistaken 👍
@@makingmistakeswithgreg you don't need starting tabs on a 2 inch stick weld if you only have a 2 inch weld you strike at the end of the plate and drag it back to the start to heat up the rod in advance
Exactly
8018 stick in skilled hands is
realy strong pre heat and post heat improve it more the oil industry was built on it
I like tig the best
It is the best 😀👍
cant afford a gas bottle lol. Im just a diy'er . I have a pedal and torch but im unemployed and still learning stick and flux core. Haha!
Well in that case stick with what you got👍. If you need some flux core wire let me know, I have a bunch of spare spools of it that I will never use. Message me at Weldingoldschool at gmail if you want them, no charge 😀👍
Savage. Bro uses Crayola washable markers on a dry erase board.
Nice “railroad special.”
Definitely had to bust out the bigger one so my joints didn’t pop trying to break them 😅.
cmon dude...use a real etch-a-scetch ! ;)
Somebody send him one lol
I laughed pretty hard at that. That would really suck to use that to draw 😅😅
At 11m43s, it's "perfect", not "perfet"... Also, it's "splatter", not "spatter"... I guess you opted for the whiteboard with the protective drop case instead of the one with the built-in spellchecker... :)
do the weld... cut it up... illus[rate ... too much 5alk
It’s a video that’s part of a how to weld series, thus there is a lot of talking 👍
First!
6013 is a useless rod to me, the guys building roll cages is race cars seem to like tig, slow process,
They're probably welding Chrome-Moly which is hard to do and avoid cracks in the tubing.
I was never a fan 6013, except with 1/16th rods on sheet metal lol. It’s the only rod I have ran that you can literally get slag inclusions on a fillet weld easily if you’re not careful. If I am down to 6013 I am in trouble lol.
@@makingmistakeswithgreg I haven't even tried 6013 yet, I really like 7018 though, especially after watching all your tips on how to restart it :)
Talking , talking , 44 min talking.
In TIG there is NO porosity , oxigen and nitrogen contamination , no flux inclusion . And no HYDROGEN cold cracking.
You asking what for ? For clicking ?
Dumbest comment i’ve seen!
tig can have porosity and contamination, it’s all dependent on skill.
i’ve seen tig with porosity and contamination, especially on SS and aluminum.
you can lay down xray welds with other processes too, not just tig.
tig welders swear their favorite process is the only process 😂
@Buzzkillco
Dumbest is question in topic. Look at two joints , same size. Same good quality. There is no question . Process 141 win.
I wish you luck in stick aluminium wellding....
@@adamlazarowicz9136 thanks i wish you luck in faster production with tig.
Welding videos from Pakistan I hear are pretty good, check'em out 😉👍
@@Buzzkillco
You are right. Stick is cheaper and faster. Everyone knows about it. It is TRUISM.
But question was " Are Tig welds REALY STRONGER ( Greg has doubts !!! ) than Mig &Stick "
I started TIG , love stick.
But let's be serious....