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@@nomnomyourmomyou must be in Jeff's family. You blast everyone that calls out Jeff if he's wrong. No matter what you say, Jeff has been wrong before but he is not wrong much. He doesnt need you being a troll and taking up for him and bashing anyone who doesn't agree with him on everything.
@@nomnomyourmom Now you're making up stuff. I Have always known the long head crosses shoulder. Id put you to shame with my knowledge of the body. You're Just a jerk trying to make me look bad. Dont reply to any of my comments, you are a waste of my time and anybody's time.
1. The exercise at 0:13 is not chinup, but a more difficult version, check it again. 2. That's not the reason at 0:18, that's actually an entire different video titled "STOP, You're Training Your Biceps Wrong!" 3. The problem with this video is thinking Jeff claimed Chinup or Pulldown trains the Elbow Flexion and Shoulder Flexion functions of the Biceps, when in fact Jeff was talking about training the Elbow Flexion function while having Biceps in the shortened position (Flexed Shoulder). He literally explained in the video: "Why? Because I could apply good tension in that shortened position, with the arms up elevated into shoulder flexion and having that flexed elbow" 4. At 9:45, it's actually triarticulate, crossing three joints not two: shoulder joint and two elbow joints 5. At 10:28 and 11:09, you don't have dynamic supination but you CAN have static supination (Overcoming Isometric) which can increase Biceps' activation easily. That's why you complement DB Curls (dynamic) with Barbell Curls (static)
Work but how much? Not enough for anyone past begginer stage I can bang out same reps the days after 8-10 sets of curls , my amrap for ring chin ups is just poor +25kg x 5 [85kg bw] Yea i get some pump but the stimulus you get from 3 sets of that is like what ? 1 set of curls , definitely not enough As an addition to get more stimulus for biceps it is fine , even doing all pulling work with supinated grip is still not enough , just a bonus , same as CGBP for triceps [Can not answer comment bellow for some reason , tried twice] Gymnast do not get their biceps only from pull ups, but also all the straight arm work they do , all the skill str.a. work they do , rto push ups , dips , planche , maltese push ups. Extreme amount of time biceps is in stretched position. That is why , not just pulling work , do not expect gymnast biceps with only pull work , most of them or probably all that you think of can do pelican curl , maltese push ups. They get extreme stimuli from all the work they do.
@@Txtal I respectfully disagree. I think that the main reason that gymnasts have huge biceps is because of all the pull-up/chin-up type of movements that they perform. Many (most?) generally don't do curls.
@@jodezod usually not to failure. It varies, sometimes a few sets every day, sometimes reverse ladders, like 12,10,8,6,4 two or three days a week. Sometimes use a band so I can do more. I do chin ups, inverse rows, diamond pushups, decline push ups, and lunges. Look and feel better than using weights.
I've been doing undergrip pulldowns for about 6 weeks now and my bi's have grown more than they ever have outside of my first year of training. My wife actually commented last week and she rarely notices things like that. Maybe it's my body structure but these work really well for me.
He didn't say they won't make you grow. He was stating that the target areas said to be working by athlete x and Metzer were wrong based off the mechanics of the lift. To his point, if you want to work the upper part of the bicep by the shoulder, a chin up is not going to do this. It does not mean your biceps don't get stimulus to grow from chin ups, or pull ups , or rows ect. I actually never even heard of using a lift for upper bicep before. Not sure how much impact on growth this can actually have on upper bicep. Almost seems like more of a front Delt exercise. Interesting....
Bro a gymnast will do chinups per sey as a bicep . But I can guarantee the coach will say otherwise. The bicep is a stabilizer in chinups. Same thing as how a boxer can build his biceps throwing punches . Hope that helps too .
Gymnasts also do a lot of reverse grip planks/planches, reverse pushups, ring holds, reverse bridges, etc, all of which work biceps with the same physics as the upper movement he's describing. He also doesn't say you can't get big biceps by doing just chinups or some other exercise - he's saying this is a more efficient movement that hits both insertion points.
Gymnasts that have big biceps is because of the genetics there born with because plenty of them don't have big biceps and some don't really have good physiques
@@trapps75 lol 😂 tell that to most of the gymnast who born skinny and way better and well shaped than average roided bodybuilder 🤡, most gymnasts have way better body than bulkyass bodybuilders , stop coping and stop blaming everything on genetics 🧬 when you know bare minimum about it
The close-grip palms-up pulldown does put pressure on both ends of the biceps at the deepest point of the motion. This is why Mike Mentzer emphasized static holds as such a crucial part of training. This, and the chin up, are the most effective ways to do this. Also your bicep curl with shoulder flexion that you demonstrated doesn't work the bicep from both ends, it works the biceps and the front delt. Mentzer's pulldown works the biceps, forearms, and almost the entire back.
Yep, the idea that perhaps neither Mentzer nor AX explained more specifically is that, in a chin up / pulldown, when the shoulder is flexed, the biceps are shortened from the top and lengthened from the bottom (at the elbow) and vice versa when the elbows are flexed, so that the biceps are never fully stretched or contacted, allowing the biceps to produce more force (more fibers contracting at the same time). Arthur Jones once mentioned a curl or chin up done behind the head to fully contract the biceps from both joints. I think most people would find that the regular chin up produces a better pump.
1. The exercise at 0:13 is not chinup, but a more difficult version, check it again. 2. That's not the reason at 0:18, that's actually an entire different video titled "STOP, You're Training Your Biceps Wrong!" 3. The problem with this video is thinking Jeff claimed Chinup or Pulldown trains the Elbow Flexion and Shoulder Flexion functions of the Biceps, when in fact Jeff was talking about training the Elbow Flexion function while having Biceps in the shortened position (Flexed Shoulder). He literally explained in the video: "Why? Because I could apply good tension in that shortened position, with the arms up elevated into shoulder flexion and having that flexed elbow" 4. At 9:45, it's actually triarticulate, crossing three joints not two: shoulder joint and two elbow joints 5. At 10:28 and 11:09, you don't have dynamic supination but you CAN have static supination (Overcoming Isometric) which can increase Biceps' activation easily. That's why you complement DB Curls (dynamic) with Barbell Curls (static)
Tbh I think that’s more a testament to how hard pullups are compared to what others do on curls generally. With curls or pulldowns unless you really push it you are likely going to do less work than you would doing some sets of pullups. Lugging your full bodyweight around for even a few sets is bound to hit your biceps good. I’d still say weights is ideal for growth if you put in the effort instead of doing just a couple sets of 8-12 with moderate weight.
Regional hypertrophy and the mechanical stimulus in its sense for each muscle separately is an interesting topic. We'd love for you to do such a series😊
Reverse pulldown has been a top two mass builder for my defined 16.25" arms. I will still use it but now know it does not work full range of both heads as I believed. Thanks - I know to modify my workout now and maybe that will get me past the plateau I've been stuck at for 6 weeks. I will try the bicep move you developed.
This makes sense. Recently I was super-setting dumbbell shoulder press with arm blaster curls and felt strong bicep activation during the shoulder press. I was wandering why. For your future videos, could you do some on super-setting - it seems my selection of supersetting opposing muscle groups was not quite right. Also, please provide options for minimalist equipment - personally I train at home with dumbbell, barbell, bench and half-rack but do not have access to cables.
A lot of people are making an easy mistake here. He’s not saying that a pulldown won’t increase bicep size. He just saying it’s not optimal. Then he’s giving suggestions to make the movements optimal.
Wow thanks doc. I actually implemented that AthleanX video into my training and was wondering why it didn't feel like it was hitting my biceps all that much. Thought I was doing something wrong and ended up dropping the underhanded pulldown from my program. Glad to know it wasn't my fault. Waiting on some ironmaster dumbbells so I can start doing your training with the offset weights
I kind of discovered this too. Regular pull ups and chin ups hurt my shoulder, but by using twisting grips attached to the bar, it hurts less And allows supination. I also do bicep pull downs now using 2 cables with a grip on each end so I can pull and supinate. This along with preacher curls seems to get my biceps more universally sore, rather than just sore at the insertion point above the elbow.
I noticed some pain using the straight bar pull down. I thought a wider grip was better. Now I see that using individual grips allowing supination is better for the pull down.
*This is simply not true. The human body is designed to perform compound exercises first and foremost. The bicep is more than just in the upper arms. It connects to the back and forearm. Look at the biceps of athletes and prison inmates who do tons of chinups. They're fricken huge while natty*
Very interesting video Doc! So far you are just one of two YT channels that have discussed regional training on muscles. I always had the feeling this was true. I hope that you make more indepth videos regarding this subject. Can you also make a video on the two different fast twitch and slow twitch fibres that may be activated during different training methods?
Absolutely! I actually briefly discussed fiber type differences and how they affect regional hypertrophy in my last video on regional quad training (here's the link: ruclips.net/video/9QPw_jzc7is/видео.html )... and I have a lot more about it on my membership site, but I'll definitely be publishing more on it here as well! 👊 Regional activation has an enormous influence on training, but you're right - very few people are even aware of it. Most even believe it's not possible.
At 7:35, you mentioned that "The brachialis is actually the strongest elbow flexor if the forearms stay fixed in a supinated position." However, Murray et al. (1995) conducted a study titled “Variation of muscle moment arms with elbow and forearm position,” which found that the biceps brachii exhibits a greater flexion moment arm across the entire flexion/extension range of motion, particularly when the forearm is supinated. This suggests that when the radioulnar joint is fully supinated, the biceps brachii is the strongest of the elbow. At 7:44, you presented a pie chart illustrating the relative contributions to elbow flexion torque of the biceps, brachialis, and brachioradialis. The chart indicates the brachialis contributing 47% and the biceps contributing 34%. This information appears to be sourced from a paper by Kawakami et al. titled “Specific tension of elbow flexor and extensor muscles based on magnetic resonance imaging” (1994). The abstract of the paper states, "Within flexors, BRA [brachialis] had the greatest contribution to torque (47%), followed by BIC [biceps brachii] (34%) and BRD [brachioradialis] (19%)." Upon thorough examination of the entire paper, a discrepancy arises between this statement and the data presented in Table 1. Contrary to the abstract, Table 1 indicates that the biceps brachii (BIC) contributes 47% to elbow flexion torque, while the brachialis (BRA) contributes 34%. In an attempt to reconcile this inconsistency, I contacted the lead author, Yasuo Kawakami, who acknowledged the error and provided clarification: "Yes, you are right, and I was wrong. I made a mistake in the abstract with BIC and BRA as you indicated. Correctly, BIC (47%) > BRA (34%) > BRD (19%). My apology for the easy mistake which had gone through all the processes, including reviewing. Once again, thank you for your interest in one of my rather old articles." If necessary, I can provide the email exchange for confirmation. I previously addressed these discrepancies in the comments of your Mar 18, 2023 "Biceps Curls" video, yet received no response. I urge you to correct these inaccuracies in this video, your previous one, and any future content on the topic.
Nice correction. I'd like to request to plz continue the regional hypertrophy series. Those were absolutely fantastic & not really explained by others properly.
Interesting indeed. There is a lot of truth here, but the supination grip also affects the activation of the biceps brachii muscle. It is very important to consider what kind of grip to take when making a movement.
This is why I followed you for a long time now. You show us exactly what works best through science. No waste of time and then create the best product like BFR cuffs to further enhance these science-backed exercises. Love it
That's all great, but you failed to explain what we're all thinking: then why are my biceps fatigued after doing chin ups or pull ups? Are you saying it doesn't work the bicep at all, or just not the part of the bicep that connects to the shoulder?
If you know a little bit about biomechanics then you should wonder whether gymnasts (and by no means all) have biceps like that because of or despite the chin-up 😉
Rings are a different animal. There’s almost always some form of internal or external rotation of the wrists when doing a pulling exercise. That’s why they’re easier on the joints.
There are many reasons why they have huge biceps... but perhaps the biggest is the loaded straight-arm bicep work they do, like the Maltese on the rings, which load the biceps from both ends. That absolutely blows your biceps up. I'm gonna do a video on straight-arm biceps work in the near future. But one principle is the same. Load the biceps on both ends.
My biceps disagree, especially when doing partial range of motion during the pullup. If not go to prison youll learn how fast you can activate the bicep with a pullup
Wow. I had heard that the underhand pull-down was one of the best biceps exercises from multiple people… always saying that it worked the biceps from both ends. The way you explain it makes it seem so obvious!! I wonder how that got started…
It is pretty obvious once you understand the anatomy! I think it was that Mike Mentzer guy who started it... but I'm not positive. I had just heard it from so many people that I had to address it.
Mahalo! 🙏 Like I said in the video... this isn't meant as an attack on Athlean-X or anything. From what I've seen his content seems to normally be spot on. This is just one mistake I heard and had to address.
I get reasonable supination resistance by palm-down gripping the top of a kettle-bell. I do an incomplete curl, keeping the weight mostly in the middle-zone of a curl -- neither the top nor the bottom -- but also supinating the hand while doing so. Full range-of-motion on the supination while doing partial reps of the elbow flexion. Even using the maximal ends of a dumbbell grip don't provide adequate supination resistance. I also like to get the shoulder flexion component of a biceps curl by using either a cable or a band.... and setting anchor to roughly waist-height. Go ahead and start your shoulder, elbow, wrist in line with the anchor point.... at this point only your grip is getting resistance, but not your biceps nor shoulder. Now curl. At the end of the curl, you can keep your biceps contracted... but now raise your elbow -- that's your shoulder flexion, and additional biceps contraction.
Hey Dr, I did your leg raises off a bench but modified it to be off higher foam plyoboxes for more ROM. My lower never felt so stretched and pulled and sore before in my life. The GOAT lower ab exercise. Ty doc.
Legs raises is an isometric exercises builds no abs your thighs are not even attached to your ab muscles waste of time u can't separate lower ab from upper abs it's one muscle all u need is some type of crunch nothing else open a book on anatomy and u will see
Have to disagree with this one, it is just me and my OWN experience. I'm 45 years old, and my arms were stagnated. But Switching to heavy pulldown, sometimes with a spotter and weighted pull-ups was a success 💪🏾. Hey, maybe my body is different from many others. However, i definitely subscribing to this channel. Very good info.
There is recent rise of people with medical expertise slowly entering into fitness infuncer which will elevate so many of these small mistakes. Dr milo wolf, good old ressinance peridiozation, YOU and others. Dr Andy Galpins through hubberman, principles have become popular. Next batch of fitness people will be a elite class for sure.
What I didn't see here is a guide to the best exercise for working the bicep at the shoulder flexion, just (what I assume) is a quick video shot of pushing dumb bells overhead in a supinated grip.
The problem here is that you are drawing conclusions from the biomechanics of the movement, and ignoring the fact that it is far easier to overload the biceps with the pulldown (or chin up) than with the bicep curl, which results in greater hypertrophy of the biceps from the compound lift. Not only is this from experience, but also backed by science: Gentil P, Soares S, Bottaro M. Single vs. Multi-Joint Resistance Exercises: Effects on Muscle Strength and Hypertrophy.
Mike mentzer isn't anywhere these days, he's been dead for decades. His nonsense is everywhere because people can argue against him without him being able to respond and his name is well known enough to draw rage bait views. It's just people playing the RUclips algorithm game for views. If you keep watching videos with his name in them, the algorithm will feed you more of them and that's the kind of trending creators bank on and why your feed will always seem to promote so much of the same or similar content. It takes a lot of intentional searching browsing different content to get your RUclips feed to trend on something else if you want to change it.
I made a make shift seal row bench and do underhand rows that works the biceps a little bit sometimes if I'm short of time I do that and skip doing curls.
You are right. I try these new exercise every now and then and found that pulldowns are a waste of time. They neither hit biceps nor the lats. Bottom line is: Biceps will grow only when they are fully engaged during a contraction and eccentric release. So whether it is a closed grip bar pulldowns or supinated palms chin ups, if biceps are not engaged, the whole moment is a waste.
@@watchdog6619 I can very well engage my biceps during an arm workout. The actual movement that would target the biceps in a pulldown is completely different than what has been preached by Mentzer. If you are a Mentzer fan, I mean no disrespect to his theory. It's just that I tried his idea and it did not work with my muscle framework. Every person responds differently to a single exercise. And I believe pulldowns did not give me the hypertrophy or the improvement in muscular tone that I was looking for.
All of you are wrong. Or right. Some will grow arms, others wont. Depends on individual dominancy of body parts. There is no one size fits all. But bashing is universal idiocy.
Thank you Doctor Gains.I’m sure your instruction and information will prove very useful.Great job continue your useful work and cause your useful information to reach us.
Thank you very much for the video. How you explain the size of the biceps for gymnastic competitors?What do you think about biceps curl (small bar) with upper pulley to behind the head curl? Thank🙏🙏
IT'S TRUE. I didn't train the biceps in isolation, I relied on different forms of pull-ups to do the trick. A mistake. All I had to do was put in TWO one-arm biceps sets per week (isometric preload followed immediately by isotonics... that's one set in total) and in a few weeks my biceps "bloomed"...
You can litteraly chose if you are pulling with biceps or with back... either you bend your elbows as main move or you pull your elbows down as main move.
I ruptured both bicep tendons on the long head at different times, so now the tendons are attached to the upper humerus. My question is, to work the upper part of the biceps, is it pointless raising the arms into shoulder flexion as the tendon doesn't cross the shoulder joint.
I’m at the gym trying it again and it’s not a bicep builder. A beginner might get some benefit from it for a while. You literally cannot move your arm downward without using lats. You need an overhead cable curl to accomplish what he’s claiming
I see you mean his explanation is wrong. But I tried the exercise after that video, and it does hit the biceps hard, I also make sure my fist reaches my front shoulder.
i think mike was talking about a reverse grip cable curl its essentially the same thing except you extend only the elbow joint ive grow my arms 3 inches by implementing reverse cable curls in my program
I hope we get more videos soon. Also it would be great if you could incorporate the latest studies like stretch mediated hyperthropy and such. And what you think of it.
I trained Mentzer-style for years. I wasn't aware of what goes on in this world. Mentzer was a shill just playing the other end of the spectrum to Weider. It gets much weirder than that but I'll leave it there. I never did get much biceps activation from the Underhand Pulldown. Barbell Curls are perfectly adequate, imo. I no longer train Mentzer-style as it violates the CNS, imo. I've had success with microloading (no periodisation) and low reps. Triples on most exercises. Singles on Front Squat. And, stretching is essential or you'll be in pain your whole life. Mentzer was anti-stretching.
I can feel it in my biceps, but.. when that said, it's an exercise i will not use.. drag curls in the smith machine, or in the cables is much better, but thats my opinion..
Works for some, for some, it doesn't. Works for me personally - I use that as a pre-exhaust before jumping on to the Cable Preacher dropsets followed by Hammer Concentration.
Well, it can definitely activate the biceps at the elbow... but the main point here is that it doesn't activate the biceps at the shoulder at all. Regardless of who you are or how you do it. The biceps perform the complete opposite movement at the shoulder.
I wish influencers would go into more detail about compound exercises and inform people that your body is designed to work multiple muscle groups together. Isolation moves are not practical for the average lifter.
This isnt true. I did a 10yr prison bit ,and all i did were dips and underhanded pull-ups, which i did every M/W/F 10x10 superset fashion. My arms grew to 20" from 15" and I never did any curling exercises ever.
Came here because I was trying to do the exercise from athlean x video and my bicep was soft during the entire movement, I didn't feel anything in my biceps at all. Now I know why.
Excellent! U do great videos. Could u please aso do kettelbell traininf videos. Also what is your opinion on dry intermittent fasting like in Ramadan for health?
The perfect 'bicep' exercise would be using gymnastic rings and the orientation of the torso. It would have the arms straight and behind the torso. Then your body would have to go head down and rotate to move your arms towards the front of the torso with tension on the biceps. Body rotation to the point your biceps are next to your face, then a curl motion starts with it ending behind your head/touching traps. Possible? Only a gymnast could maybe move the body along that path but highly un-practicable.
You are right that the bicep is not going from it's longest to shortest, but you are also seemingly wrong because the bicep can still apply maximum tension without going from its longest to shortest position.
I love your content, and your solid scientific representation of the topic, i am a clinical pharmacist and i love your anatomy and biomechanics videos, keep it up!
Have there been actual studies comparing pullups vs curls and their results? Mentzer talked about the biceps development of gymnasts who at least at that time, according to him, weren't intentionally bodybuilding, nor doing curls, just doing pullups, yet had biceps as developed as amateur bodybuilders. ISTM, it may be that even though curls Should develop the biceps better, it's a lot harder to curl one's own weight, than it is to do a pullup with one's weight, so it may be easier to put the biceps under a high load and see gains with them, even though they don't target the biceps as well, and if the pullups were done on a pull down machine with the same lower (than body) weight as the curls, would result in less gains than the curls.
Except they do work the biceps from both ends, just not all in the concentric. Control the eccentric on the way up, as you should do anyway, and that’s the exact movement you’re doing with your curl raises. So they are both still right.
Those will be coming in the near future as Part 2 and 3 of my Regional Hypertrophy Quad Series! 👍(Part 1 is the video I published right before this one.) So stay tuned
Mike was Special, Very Smart but here he was wrong here and Jeff at Athlean X is wrong too. Jeff is wrong sometimes but we let it go because Jeff is good for the Weightlifting and Fitness community and he teaches a lot to many people so we give him a pass when he is wrong. Dr. Gains corrects him and explains how he is wrong but Jeff will not appreciate being questioned. No one is right all the time, the question is how you handle being corrected especially if you are wrong.
This is your comment from Dr Gain's video (5 Key Lat Training Secrets! EVERYTHING You DIDN’T KNOW About Working the Latissimus Dorsi): "Not to be off topic but I really wish these so called important fitness influencers and gym coaches would learn the truth from you that raising your arms and elbows over the head does not bias the long head of the tricep. Almost all of them thinks that it does. Why will they not listen to Doctors and Science. How can these other influencers keep preaching that over head extensions bias the long head... " Good job being exposed as a liar.
Straight Barbell curl with a 3 second eccentric 1 second concentric is my favorite bicep exersize.(also something menzter was a huge fan of). Nothing overloads the biceps better than this paticular exersize(in terms of being able to go heavy). Then a cable rope hammer curl for the brachis. Boom. That's all you need. I don't beleive in doing "different" exersizes that require lowering the weight to be able to do the paticular motion. I'm a straight shooter. I want straight foward muscular overload per muscle group. That's why I'm not a fan of the arnold press. I can shoulder press more than I can curl. I get you can still achieve hypertrophy with many reps, but again for me....anything over 12 reps and the weight is going up!! Just stick with the absolute basics and you'll be good to go. None of this funky fitness influencer stuff you see now a days
If you don’t understand physics; this is not your place! So glad finding such scientific valuable information freely on RUclips! Where is the world going!!
You’re totally wrong. Take that entire diagram and turn it on its side. Imagine laying in your stomach and pulling a weight towards you, that’s what you’re doing vertically with the pull down.
Yes... that's still shoulder extension. Not shoulder flexion. The opposite of what the biceps do at the shoulder. Which plane your body is positioned along doesn't matter - the angle of the resistance does. A pull-down only works the biceps at the elbow no matter how you look at it. That's not an opinion. It's an anatomical fact.
I stoped doin. Pull down ones now. Yes. I will try. Dumbbell ones. Mike did. Talk about doin these with dumbbells. But to be honest. I was sure if he ever did them much if ever. I will try these at gym.
Hi I tore my brachialis at the ulnar bone and had surgery to have it reattached. How do I strengthen the tendon or any tendon in my body to prevent injury.
I think so We look at the initial and final positions of the pull down/chin up and the exercise proposed by Dr. Gains (curl plus anterior shoulder flexion) there is no difference in angles and overload of both heads of the biceps. Maybe the pull down is a little more concentric and the previous curl + flexion is a little more eccentric.
There's actually an enormous difference. The pull-down and chin-up don't load the biceps at the shoulder at all. There is ZERO shoulder flexion load / activation. The resistance is in the complete opposite direction. I know that can be confusing because the positions look the same, but try re-watching the video and maybe it'll make more sense for you the second time.
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Mahalo for watching! 🤙 If you’d like to check out the Regional Hypertrophy Training platform completely risk-free, use the code YT-BICEPS-VID for a FREE month of the All-Access Basic Membership! Here’s the link 👉 www.dr-gains.com/memberships
@@nomnomyourmomyou must be in Jeff's family.
You blast everyone that calls out Jeff if he's wrong. No matter what you say, Jeff has been wrong before but he is not wrong much. He doesnt need you being a troll and taking up for him and bashing anyone who doesn't agree with him on everything.
@@nomnomyourmom Have you ever been told that you are an annoying, know-it-all little guy?
@@nomnomyourmom
You are a jerk!!!!!!
You make me laugh
It's sad that there are people like you in the world,
@@nomnomyourmom Now you're making up stuff. I Have always known the long head crosses shoulder. Id put you to shame with my knowledge of the body. You're Just a jerk trying to make me look bad. Dont reply to any of my comments, you are a waste of my time and anybody's time.
1. The exercise at 0:13 is not chinup, but a more difficult version, check it again.
2. That's not the reason at 0:18, that's actually an entire different video titled "STOP, You're Training Your Biceps Wrong!"
3. The problem with this video is thinking Jeff claimed Chinup or Pulldown trains the Elbow Flexion and Shoulder Flexion functions of the Biceps, when in fact Jeff was talking about training the Elbow Flexion function while having Biceps in the shortened position (Flexed Shoulder).
He literally explained in the video:
"Why? Because I could apply good tension in that shortened position, with the arms up elevated into shoulder flexion and having that flexed elbow"
4. At 9:45, it's actually triarticulate, crossing three joints not two: shoulder joint and two elbow joints
5. At 10:28 and 11:09, you don't have dynamic supination but you CAN have static supination (Overcoming Isometric) which can increase Biceps' activation easily.
That's why you complement DB Curls (dynamic) with Barbell Curls (static)
They absolutely work the biceps. How do I know that? My biceps are sore and have a major pump after my chin-ups and pull-ups.
Glad you agree with him. 👍🏿
You said at both ends of the biceps, not that they don’t work biceps.
Same here.
Work but how much? Not enough for anyone past begginer stage
I can bang out same reps the days after 8-10 sets of curls , my amrap for ring chin ups is just poor +25kg x 5 [85kg bw]
Yea i get some pump but the stimulus you get from 3 sets of that is like what ? 1 set of curls , definitely not enough
As an addition to get more stimulus for biceps it is fine , even doing all pulling work with supinated grip is still not enough , just a bonus , same as CGBP for triceps
[Can not answer comment bellow for some reason , tried twice]
Gymnast do not get their biceps only from pull ups, but also all the straight arm work they do , all the skill str.a. work they do , rto push ups , dips , planche , maltese push ups. Extreme amount of time biceps is in stretched position. That is why , not just pulling work , do not expect gymnast biceps with only pull work , most of them or probably all that you think of can do pelican curl , maltese push ups. They get extreme stimuli from all the work they do.
@@Txtal I respectfully disagree. I think that the main reason that gymnasts have huge biceps is because of all the pull-up/chin-up type of movements that they perform. Many (most?) generally don't do curls.
Interesting. I stopped weights and did only pullups for biceps for two months and my biceps got noticeably bigger.
Well your triceps are a big part of your arm
@@CS-ww3bsTroll😂
How many sets do you do? Or do you do til failure?
@@jodezod usually not to failure. It varies, sometimes a few sets every day, sometimes reverse ladders, like 12,10,8,6,4 two or three days a week. Sometimes use a band so I can do more. I do chin ups, inverse rows, diamond pushups, decline push ups, and lunges. Look and feel better than using weights.
@@theguy4615 respect bro
I've been doing undergrip pulldowns for about 6 weeks now and my bi's have grown more than they ever have outside of my first year of training. My wife actually commented last week and she rarely notices things like that. Maybe it's my body structure but these work really well for me.
He didn't say they won't make you grow. He was stating that the target areas said to be working by athlete x and Metzer were wrong based off the mechanics of the lift. To his point, if you want to work the upper part of the bicep by the shoulder, a chin up is not going to do this. It does not mean your biceps don't get stimulus to grow from chin ups, or pull ups , or rows ect. I actually never even heard of using a lift for upper bicep before. Not sure how much impact on growth this can actually have on upper bicep. Almost seems like more of a front Delt exercise. Interesting....
They grew more but the shape stayed the same because can't change shape of muscles physically impossible
Bro a gymnast will do chinups per sey as a bicep . But I can guarantee the coach will say otherwise. The bicep is a stabilizer in chinups. Same thing as how a boxer can build his biceps throwing punches . Hope that helps too .
@@Greetthemenace9Chin ups are more than a bicep stabilizing exercise. Your biceps get cooked doing a chin up.
Gymnasts have testified to pull-ups being the reason why their biceps are so big when done correctly.
Gymnasts also do a lot of reverse grip planks/planches, reverse pushups, ring holds, reverse bridges, etc, all of which work biceps with the same physics as the upper movement he's describing.
He also doesn't say you can't get big biceps by doing just chinups or some other exercise - he's saying this is a more efficient movement that hits both insertion points.
Gymnasts that have big biceps is because of the genetics there born with because plenty of them don't have big biceps and some don't really have good physiques
@@trapps75 most of them i mean most like huge percentage of gymnasts have big or atleast well shaped that's not all genetics
@@Cxop0201 your shape is determined at birth nothing is changing that
@@trapps75 lol 😂 tell that to most of the gymnast who born skinny and way better and well shaped than average roided bodybuilder 🤡, most gymnasts have way better body than bulkyass bodybuilders , stop coping and stop blaming everything on genetics 🧬 when you know bare minimum about it
You have two choices: trust some youtuber, or try and verify. I personally bulked up my biceps and got stronger with this exercise.
The close-grip palms-up pulldown does put pressure on both ends of the biceps at the deepest point of the motion. This is why Mike Mentzer emphasized static holds as such a crucial part of training. This, and the chin up, are the most effective ways to do this. Also your bicep curl with shoulder flexion that you demonstrated doesn't work the bicep from both ends, it works the biceps and the front delt. Mentzer's pulldown works the biceps, forearms, and almost the entire back.
Yep, the idea that perhaps neither Mentzer nor AX explained more specifically is that, in a chin up / pulldown, when the shoulder is flexed, the biceps are shortened from the top and lengthened from the bottom (at the elbow) and vice versa when the elbows are flexed, so that the biceps are never fully stretched or contacted, allowing the biceps to produce more force (more fibers contracting at the same time). Arthur Jones once mentioned a curl or chin up done behind the head to fully contract the biceps from both joints. I think most people would find that the regular chin up produces a better pump.
Doc, the results I've gotten from your single arm twisting cable curls, forearm, & brachioradialis have been excellent. Thanks again
Are your results strength or size - thanks
@@Enthalpy248 Size
That is something I want to know as well.
Great to hear!
Dude I call them telephone curls from that video it's amazing exercise
1. The exercise at 0:13 is not chinup, but a more difficult version, check it again.
2. That's not the reason at 0:18, that's actually an entire different video titled "STOP, You're Training Your Biceps Wrong!"
3. The problem with this video is thinking Jeff claimed Chinup or Pulldown trains the Elbow Flexion and Shoulder Flexion functions of the Biceps, when in fact Jeff was talking about training the Elbow Flexion function while having Biceps in the shortened position (Flexed Shoulder).
He literally explained in the video:
"Why? Because I could apply good tension in that shortened position, with the arms up elevated into shoulder flexion and having that flexed elbow"
4. At 9:45, it's actually triarticulate, crossing three joints not two: shoulder joint and two elbow joints
5. At 10:28 and 11:09, you don't have dynamic supination but you CAN have static supination (Overcoming Isometric) which can increase Biceps' activation easily.
That's why you complement DB Curls (dynamic) with Barbell Curls (static)
Yes 💯👍🏼 I call BS on this Dr Gains video. Never take fitness advice from a guy that looks like he barely works out (Dr Gains).
lol you destroyed Dr Gains video... good job
This is why people get so confused. there is always info out there contradicting other info we learned. Its frustrating.
Do pull downs effectively work the biceps?
@@RSG71 Gymnasts arms certainly suggest they do.
I see what you are saying but man some of the best bicep pumps I’ve gotten are from doing chin ups
😂 Go help your wife lift heavy shopping bags. Great pump in your forearms, but they don't really grow. A pump does not equal growth, kind friend…😉
@@nomnomyourmom😂
@@_Sam62Amateur dont comment. You still have a long journey to know 🤡
You weren’t listening either smh. You people smh.
Tbh I think that’s more a testament to how hard pullups are compared to what others do on curls generally. With curls or pulldowns unless you really push it you are likely going to do less work than you would doing some sets of pullups. Lugging your full bodyweight around for even a few sets is bound to hit your biceps good. I’d still say weights is ideal for growth if you put in the effort instead of doing just a couple sets of 8-12 with moderate weight.
Regional hypertrophy and the mechanical stimulus in its sense for each muscle separately is an interesting topic. We'd love for you to do such a series😊
Reverse pulldown has been a top two mass builder for my defined 16.25" arms. I will still use it but now know it does not work full range of both heads as I believed. Thanks - I know to modify my workout now and maybe that will get me past the plateau I've been stuck at for 6 weeks. I will try the bicep move you developed.
Glad to help!
I'd stop listening to this guy
This makes sense. Recently I was super-setting dumbbell shoulder press with arm blaster curls and felt strong bicep activation during the shoulder press. I was wandering why.
For your future videos, could you do some on super-setting - it seems my selection of supersetting opposing muscle groups was not quite right. Also, please provide options for minimalist equipment - personally I train at home with dumbbell, barbell, bench and half-rack but do not have access to cables.
A lot of people are making an easy mistake here. He’s not saying that a pulldown won’t increase bicep size. He just saying it’s not optimal. Then he’s giving suggestions to make the movements optimal.
Wow thanks doc. I actually implemented that AthleanX video into my training and was wondering why it didn't feel like it was hitting my biceps all that much. Thought I was doing something wrong and ended up dropping the underhanded pulldown from my program. Glad to know it wasn't my fault. Waiting on some ironmaster dumbbells so I can start doing your training with the offset weights
💪
I kind of discovered this too. Regular pull ups and chin ups hurt my shoulder, but by using twisting grips attached to the bar, it hurts less And allows supination. I also do bicep pull downs now using 2 cables with a grip on each end so I can pull and supinate. This along with preacher curls seems to get my biceps more universally sore, rather than just sore at the insertion point above the elbow.
Love it! 👊
@@DrGainsFull time dr bullshtter😂
Your just week kid nobody else gets hurt except you😂
I noticed some pain using the straight bar pull down. I thought a wider grip was better. Now I see that using individual grips allowing supination is better for the pull down.
*This is simply not true. The human body is designed to perform compound exercises first and foremost. The bicep is more than just in the upper arms. It connects to the back and forearm. Look at the biceps of athletes and prison inmates who do tons of chinups. They're fricken huge while natty*
Very interesting video Doc! So far you are just one of two YT channels that have discussed regional training on muscles. I always had the feeling this was true. I hope that you make more indepth videos regarding this subject. Can you also make a video on the two different fast twitch and slow twitch fibres that may be activated during different training methods?
Absolutely! I actually briefly discussed fiber type differences and how they affect regional hypertrophy in my last video on regional quad training (here's the link: ruclips.net/video/9QPw_jzc7is/видео.html )... and I have a lot more about it on my membership site, but I'll definitely be publishing more on it here as well! 👊 Regional activation has an enormous influence on training, but you're right - very few people are even aware of it. Most even believe it's not possible.
At 7:35, you mentioned that "The brachialis is actually the strongest elbow flexor if the forearms stay fixed in a supinated position."
However, Murray et al. (1995) conducted a study titled “Variation of muscle moment arms with elbow and forearm position,” which found that the biceps brachii exhibits a greater flexion moment arm across the entire flexion/extension range of motion, particularly when the forearm is supinated. This suggests that when the radioulnar joint is fully supinated, the biceps brachii is the strongest of the elbow.
At 7:44, you presented a pie chart illustrating the relative contributions to elbow flexion torque of the biceps, brachialis, and brachioradialis. The chart indicates the brachialis contributing 47% and the biceps contributing 34%. This information appears to be sourced from a paper by Kawakami et al. titled “Specific tension of elbow flexor and extensor muscles based on magnetic resonance imaging” (1994). The abstract of the paper states, "Within flexors, BRA [brachialis] had the greatest contribution to torque (47%), followed by BIC [biceps brachii] (34%) and BRD [brachioradialis] (19%)."
Upon thorough examination of the entire paper, a discrepancy arises between this statement and the data presented in Table 1. Contrary to the abstract, Table 1 indicates that the biceps brachii (BIC) contributes 47% to elbow flexion torque, while the brachialis (BRA) contributes 34%.
In an attempt to reconcile this inconsistency, I contacted the lead author, Yasuo Kawakami, who acknowledged the error and provided clarification: "Yes, you are right, and I was wrong. I made a mistake in the abstract with BIC and BRA as you indicated. Correctly, BIC (47%) > BRA (34%) > BRD (19%). My apology for the easy mistake which had gone through all the processes, including reviewing. Once again, thank you for your interest in one of my rather old articles."
If necessary, I can provide the email exchange for confirmation.
I previously addressed these discrepancies in the comments of your Mar 18, 2023 "Biceps Curls" video, yet received no response. I urge you to correct these inaccuracies in this video, your previous one, and any future content on the topic.
Nice correction. I'd like to request to plz continue the regional hypertrophy series. Those were absolutely fantastic & not really explained by others properly.
Interesting indeed. There is a lot of truth here, but the supination grip also affects the activation of the biceps brachii muscle. It is very important to consider what kind of grip to take when making a movement.
This is why I followed you for a long time now. You show us exactly what works best through science. No waste of time and then create the best product like BFR cuffs to further enhance these science-backed exercises. Love it
That's all great, but you failed to explain what we're all thinking: then why are my biceps fatigued after doing chin ups or pull ups? Are you saying it doesn't work the bicep at all, or just not the part of the bicep that connects to the shoulder?
It's loaded elbow flexion. Obviously it works the biceps
How do gymnasts get big biceps with just pull ups?
Genetics
If you know a little bit about biomechanics then you should wonder whether gymnasts (and by no means all) have biceps like that because of or despite the chin-up 😉
Rings are a different animal. There’s almost always some form of internal or external rotation of the wrists when doing a pulling exercise. That’s why they’re easier on the joints.
P.e.d.
There are many reasons why they have huge biceps... but perhaps the biggest is the loaded straight-arm bicep work they do, like the Maltese on the rings, which load the biceps from both ends. That absolutely blows your biceps up. I'm gonna do a video on straight-arm biceps work in the near future. But one principle is the same. Load the biceps on both ends.
I was always confused how the eccentric of an exercise works, you really made it clear. Thanks 👍
Mike Mentzer….the guy who got a perfect score in Mr. Universe, is wrong…oh, ok. 😂
3:00 But you dont have bar attached to your elbows Lol.
My biceps disagree, especially when doing partial range of motion during the pullup. If not go to prison youll learn how fast you can activate the bicep with a pullup
What nonsense is this Mentzer was right. Palms up pulldowns is a killer biceps exercise. They added an inch to my arms.
Wow. I had heard that the underhand pull-down was one of the best biceps exercises from multiple people… always saying that it worked the biceps from both ends. The way you explain it makes it seem so obvious!! I wonder how that got started…
It is pretty obvious once you understand the anatomy! I think it was that Mike Mentzer guy who started it... but I'm not positive. I had just heard it from so many people that I had to address it.
@@DrGainshow dan we build tricpes and shoulders with barbells not cables
@@DrGains
“That Mike Mentzer guy “? Really .
Wash your mouth out .
I thank you doc. You provide to me more explainations about to involve the shoulder
I'm a huge fan of Jeff, but I have to roll with you on this Doc. You know your stuff. Great explanation.
Huh....exact opposite for me. Not a Jeff fan , but he is right about this. Especially for beginners
Mahalo! 🙏 Like I said in the video... this isn't meant as an attack on Athlean-X or anything. From what I've seen his content seems to normally be spot on. This is just one mistake I heard and had to address.
@@DrGains Understood and you did the right thing with your knowledge. I think Jeff is humble enough to look at it and learn.
@@benzbro350Who tf is dr gain😂? He told lie here, picked what he want . All legend know chin up is great and effective way to build biceps.
@@DrGainsWe hoped it was an attack on anyone because you are being laughed at here 😂
I get reasonable supination resistance by palm-down gripping the top of a kettle-bell. I do an incomplete curl, keeping the weight mostly in the middle-zone of a curl -- neither the top nor the bottom -- but also supinating the hand while doing so. Full range-of-motion on the supination while doing partial reps of the elbow flexion. Even using the maximal ends of a dumbbell grip don't provide adequate supination resistance.
I also like to get the shoulder flexion component of a biceps curl by using either a cable or a band.... and setting anchor to roughly waist-height. Go ahead and start your shoulder, elbow, wrist in line with the anchor point.... at this point only your grip is getting resistance, but not your biceps nor shoulder. Now curl. At the end of the curl, you can keep your biceps contracted... but now raise your elbow -- that's your shoulder flexion, and additional biceps contraction.
Hey Dr, I did your leg raises off a bench but modified it to be off higher foam plyoboxes for more ROM. My lower never felt so stretched and pulled and sore before in my life. The GOAT lower ab exercise.
Ty doc.
Love it!
Legs raises is an isometric exercises builds no abs your thighs are not even attached to your ab muscles waste of time u can't separate lower ab from upper abs it's one muscle all u need is some type of crunch nothing else open a book on anatomy and u will see
A video on upper back would be nice
Noted!
This is the most entertaining education exercise video I have ever seen on the internet LOL you went in on X 😂😂😂
Tell that theory to a gymnast
Have to disagree with this one, it is just me and my OWN experience. I'm 45 years old, and my arms were stagnated. But Switching to heavy pulldown, sometimes with a spotter and weighted pull-ups was a success 💪🏾. Hey, maybe my body is different from many others. However, i definitely subscribing to this channel. Very good info.
There is recent rise of people with medical expertise slowly entering into fitness infuncer which will elevate so many of these small mistakes.
Dr milo wolf, good old ressinance peridiozation, YOU and others.
Dr Andy Galpins through hubberman, principles have become popular.
Next batch of fitness people will be a elite class for sure.
👊
I’ve never seen anyone break it down like this, thank you!
What I didn't see here is a guide to the best exercise for working the bicep at the shoulder flexion, just (what I assume) is a quick video shot of pushing dumb bells overhead in a supinated grip.
The problem here is that you are drawing conclusions from the biomechanics of the movement, and ignoring the fact that it is far easier to overload the biceps with the pulldown (or chin up) than with the bicep curl, which results in greater hypertrophy of the biceps from the compound lift. Not only is this from experience, but also backed by science: Gentil P, Soares S, Bottaro M. Single vs. Multi-Joint Resistance Exercises: Effects on Muscle Strength and Hypertrophy.
Man, Mike Mentzer is everywhere these days. Great videos BTW, feel like I have to rewatch them multiple times to absorb all the content.
Mike mentzer isn't anywhere these days, he's been dead for decades. His nonsense is everywhere because people can argue against him without him being able to respond and his name is well known enough to draw rage bait views. It's just people playing the RUclips algorithm game for views.
If you keep watching videos with his name in them, the algorithm will feed you more of them and that's the kind of trending creators bank on and why your feed will always seem to promote so much of the same or similar content.
It takes a lot of intentional searching browsing different content to get your RUclips feed to trend on something else if you want to change it.
Completely agree with you. It´s something very obvious when you know a little about how the shoulder joint works.
Exactly 👊
The bar pulldown wors biceps as well probably not as much as a traditional curl
I bet you are busy but keep them coming bro, your content is top tier!
Thank you my friend!
I made a make shift seal row bench and do underhand rows that works the biceps a little bit sometimes if I'm short of time I do that and skip doing curls.
You are right. I try these new exercise every now and then and found that pulldowns are a waste of time. They neither hit biceps nor the lats. Bottom line is: Biceps will grow only when they are fully engaged during a contraction and eccentric release. So whether it is a closed grip bar pulldowns or supinated palms chin ups, if biceps are not engaged, the whole moment is a waste.
Uhm, so which what muscles you are pulling the bar down than😅
@@watchdog6619 I can very well engage my biceps during an arm workout. The actual movement that would target the biceps in a pulldown is completely different than what has been preached by Mentzer. If you are a Mentzer fan, I mean no disrespect to his theory. It's just that I tried his idea and it did not work with my muscle framework. Every person responds differently to a single exercise. And I believe pulldowns did not give me the hypertrophy or the improvement in muscular tone that I was looking for.
Excellent tutorial thanks..👍🏼
🙏
Thanks for calling them out. Having seen a few content creator flame-wars by now I hope we can raise the standard.
All of you are wrong. Or right. Some will grow arms, others wont. Depends on individual dominancy of body parts. There is no one size fits all. But bashing is universal idiocy.
Thank you Doctor Gains.I’m sure your instruction and information will prove very useful.Great job continue your useful work and cause your useful information to reach us.
Bot?😂
Athlean-X is a GREAT channel if you want to listen to BS crap just for views. He has been proven TIME AND TIME again to just be a JOKE!!!
that may be true, but this guy is wrong as well.
Thank you very much for the video. How you explain the size of the biceps for gymnastic competitors?What do you think about biceps curl (small bar) with upper pulley to behind the head curl?
Thank🙏🙏
IT'S TRUE. I didn't train the biceps in isolation, I relied on different forms of pull-ups to do the trick. A mistake. All I had to do was put in TWO one-arm biceps sets per week (isometric preload followed immediately by isotonics... that's one set in total) and in a few weeks my biceps "bloomed"...
You're the best, I hope you'll do a calisthenics serie one day, with the same level of precision you bring in all your videos.
It's on my to-do list!
You can litteraly chose if you are pulling with biceps or with back... either you bend your elbows as main move or you pull your elbows down as main move.
They do work. I got far more muscle growth after adding these exercises to my routine.
Then why are your biceps small?
Then how come chin ups cooks my biceps?
I ruptured both bicep tendons on the long head at different times, so now the tendons are attached to the upper humerus. My question is, to work the upper part of the biceps, is it pointless raising the arms into shoulder flexion as the tendon doesn't cross the shoulder joint.
The problem is your shoulders are forward. Your shoulder blades bring the weight back.
I’m at the gym trying it again and it’s not a bicep builder. A beginner might get some benefit from it for a while. You literally cannot move your arm downward without using lats. You need an overhead cable curl to accomplish what he’s claiming
I see you mean his explanation is wrong. But I tried the exercise after that video, and it does hit the biceps hard, I also make sure my fist reaches my front shoulder.
i think mike was talking about a reverse grip cable curl its essentially the same thing except you extend only the elbow joint ive grow my arms 3 inches by implementing reverse cable curls in my program
I hope we get more videos soon. Also it would be great if you could incorporate the latest studies like stretch mediated hyperthropy and such. And what you think of it.
okay, this guy knows what he is talking about, i love this
I trained Mentzer-style for years. I wasn't aware of what goes on in this world. Mentzer was a shill just playing the other end of the spectrum to Weider. It gets much weirder than that but I'll leave it there. I never did get much biceps activation from the Underhand Pulldown. Barbell Curls are perfectly adequate, imo. I no longer train Mentzer-style as it violates the CNS, imo. I've had success with microloading (no periodisation) and low reps. Triples on most exercises. Singles on Front Squat. And, stretching is essential or you'll be in pain your whole life. Mentzer was anti-stretching.
10:57 Error, error, system malfunction. Text says _short_ head!
Darn. Haha nice catch. With the hundreds of edits that go into these, there's always at least one typo or similar error I make!
I can feel it in my biceps, but.. when that said, it's an exercise i will not use.. drag curls in the smith machine, or in the cables is much better, but thats my opinion..
Works for some, for some, it doesn't. Works for me personally - I use that as a pre-exhaust before jumping on to the Cable Preacher dropsets followed by Hammer Concentration.
Well, it can definitely activate the biceps at the elbow... but the main point here is that it doesn't activate the biceps at the shoulder at all. Regardless of who you are or how you do it. The biceps perform the complete opposite movement at the shoulder.
I learned a valuable lesson in basic training at Sand Hill, shit tons of chins and front leaning rest brings the gains.
I wish influencers would go into more detail about compound exercises and inform people that your body is designed to work multiple muscle groups together. Isolation moves are not practical for the average lifter.
This isnt true. I did a 10yr prison bit ,and all i did were dips and underhanded pull-ups, which i did every M/W/F 10x10 superset fashion. My arms grew to 20" from 15" and I never did any curling exercises ever.
I love Jeff but Dr. gains is definitely anatomically right on this one.
Came here because I was trying to do the exercise from athlean x video and my bicep was soft during the entire movement, I didn't feel anything in my biceps at all. Now I know why.
Excellent! U do great videos. Could u please aso do kettelbell traininf videos. Also what is your opinion on dry intermittent fasting like in Ramadan for health?
Doctor doctor! I present to the ER a suffering from a severe lack of gains! You have to help me doc. 😊
The perfect 'bicep' exercise would be using gymnastic rings and the orientation of the torso. It would have the arms straight and behind the torso. Then your body would have to go head down and rotate to move your arms towards the front of the torso with tension on the biceps. Body rotation to the point your biceps are next to your face, then a curl motion starts with it ending behind your head/touching traps. Possible? Only a gymnast could maybe move the body along that path but highly un-practicable.
great stuff
Mahalo!
1:30 U are wrong you are in a pronated possition there so u will work your biceps.
You are right that the bicep is not going from it's longest to shortest, but you are also seemingly wrong because the bicep can still apply maximum tension without going from its longest to shortest position.
I love your content, and your solid scientific representation of the topic, i am a clinical pharmacist and i love your anatomy and biomechanics videos, keep it up!
Mahalo, that's great to hear! 🙏
Have there been actual studies comparing pullups vs curls and their results? Mentzer talked about the biceps development of gymnasts who at least at that time, according to him, weren't intentionally bodybuilding, nor doing curls, just doing pullups, yet had biceps as developed as amateur bodybuilders. ISTM, it may be that even though curls Should develop the biceps better, it's a lot harder to curl one's own weight, than it is to do a pullup with one's weight, so it may be easier to put the biceps under a high load and see gains with them, even though they don't target the biceps as well, and if the pullups were done on a pull down machine with the same lower (than body) weight as the curls, would result in less gains than the curls.
Except they do work the biceps from both ends, just not all in the concentric.
Control the eccentric on the way up, as you should do anyway, and that’s the exact movement you’re doing with your curl raises.
So they are both still right.
Did you even watch the video? During the eccentric phase the flexion is passive cause the load is flexing your arm, not the biceps.
Please can you do a video for vastus Lateralis and intermediate?
Those will be coming in the near future as Part 2 and 3 of my Regional Hypertrophy Quad Series! 👍(Part 1 is the video I published right before this one.) So stay tuned
Mike was Special, Very Smart but here he was wrong here and Jeff at Athlean X is wrong too.
Jeff is wrong sometimes but we let it go because Jeff is good for the Weightlifting and Fitness community and he teaches a lot to many people so we give him a pass when he is wrong.
Dr. Gains corrects him and explains how he is wrong but Jeff will not appreciate being questioned.
No one is right all the time, the question is how you handle being corrected especially if you are wrong.
This is your comment from Dr Gain's video (5 Key Lat Training Secrets! EVERYTHING You DIDN’T KNOW About Working the Latissimus Dorsi):
"Not to be off topic but I really wish these so called important fitness influencers and gym coaches would learn the truth from you that raising your arms and elbows over the head does not bias the long head of the tricep.
Almost all of them thinks that it does.
Why will they not listen to Doctors and Science. How can these other influencers keep preaching that over head extensions bias the long head... "
Good job being exposed as a liar.
This video is brilliant
On point
🙏
Straight Barbell curl with a 3 second eccentric 1 second concentric is my favorite bicep exersize.(also something menzter was a huge fan of). Nothing overloads the biceps better than this paticular exersize(in terms of being able to go heavy). Then a cable rope hammer curl for the brachis. Boom. That's all you need. I don't beleive in doing "different" exersizes that require lowering the weight to be able to do the paticular motion. I'm a straight shooter. I want straight foward muscular overload per muscle group. That's why I'm not a fan of the arnold press. I can shoulder press more than I can curl. I get you can still achieve hypertrophy with many reps, but again for me....anything over 12 reps and the weight is going up!! Just stick with the absolute basics and you'll be good to go. None of this funky fitness influencer stuff you see now a days
thanks for the video
Outstanding!
🙏
If you don’t understand physics; this is not your place!
So glad finding such scientific valuable information freely on RUclips!
Where is the world going!!
You’re totally wrong. Take that entire diagram and turn it on its side. Imagine laying in your stomach and pulling a weight towards you, that’s what you’re doing vertically with the pull down.
Yes... that's still shoulder extension. Not shoulder flexion. The opposite of what the biceps do at the shoulder. Which plane your body is positioned along doesn't matter - the angle of the resistance does. A pull-down only works the biceps at the elbow no matter how you look at it. That's not an opinion. It's an anatomical fact.
Just do curls , all forms , they’ve been working for decades .
I stoped doin. Pull down ones now. Yes. I will try. Dumbbell ones. Mike did. Talk about doin these with dumbbells. But to be honest. I was sure if he ever did them much if ever. I will try these at gym.
Hi I tore my brachialis at the ulnar bone and had surgery to have it reattached. How do I strengthen the tendon or any tendon in my body to prevent injury.
Go see a physio
Never really did those because of the shoulder flexion thing... still a decent bi move
They send me to a physical therapist and not a doctor for muscle injuries.
I think so We look at the initial and final positions of the pull down/chin up and the exercise proposed by Dr. Gains (curl plus anterior shoulder flexion) there is no difference in angles and overload of both heads of the biceps. Maybe the pull down is a little more concentric and the previous curl + flexion is a little more eccentric.
There's actually an enormous difference. The pull-down and chin-up don't load the biceps at the shoulder at all. There is ZERO shoulder flexion load / activation. The resistance is in the complete opposite direction. I know that can be confusing because the positions look the same, but try re-watching the video and maybe it'll make more sense for you the second time.