Hi, The manufacturer is actually called "The Express Lift Company" and was based in Northampton here in the UK. It was bought by Otis with another company (Evans Lifts) and renamed "Express Evans". In 2000 it became part of the "Otis" empire. Express lifts was a major manufacturer over here during the 1960s upwards, so there are many installations still in existance.
Those square Express buttons can still be found quite often in New Zealand, where Express used them as their main fixtures for many years in the 70s and 80s.
This is hands down, probably the most interesting machine room I have ever seen. I've been in quite a few, older Otis relay machine rooms, but this is incredible. I'll be in the UK sometime this year, wish I could see this!
The synchronous drive set-up is something wild for the 70's. I see the variable frequency controllers used a lot now. Smooth and accurate. Very good video and thank your partner! And that lift WAS fast!
Hi, yeah one of my favs and glad I had the opportunity to film these as it's all gone now! I know a fair bit about lifts but only to a certain level as I am not in the lift trade. You may know this already, but this is only what I can answer... Gearless traction, DC (running from the DC generator "pod" things-these are on vid2). Not sure about 'controlling block' and what that means. Speed control is done as that card slides out of the selector at 2:34 - you can see the switches all in a line.
@Eriksmate No probs! I'm really glad I had the chance to film this. This installation is about to be ripped out and modernised. That's a real shame as there must be very few of these left now. I'd love to meet the person who came up with this design! Facinating stuff!
RODALCO2007 One of my favourite videos this one - this is the only one on youtube. Filmed it many years ago just before it was all modernised. So glad that I had the opportunity to film it. Thanks *****
mrmattandmrchay Great that you captured some nice vintage equipment. We have similar things happen in NZ too. I work in electrical substations and it is a shame to see 50 year old equipment to go to the scrapyard while new flimsy stuff with a doubtful lifespan replaces it.
Too bad you walked right by one of the most interesting parts of the equipment, the Silvostat contact switch box that is driven off the hoist motor to regulate lift speed. It is a highly complex mechanism with a copper disk generating a magnetic field to drive an arm which then causes a set of 20 silver contacts to make/break and regulate the motor speed curve (this same type of copper induction drive is used in an auto speedometer). This lift is a USA made Westinghouse lift just re-badged to the local manufacturer. I serviced 2 DMR lifts for many years before the were modernized by Otis......I don't think the modern Otis hardware will run for as long a time as the old Westinghouse equipment.
That's incorrect they were manufactured in Northampton with express gearless machines. Relays contractors push buttons door operators mks 4 dispatchers with westinghouse selector and drag magnet regulators
I remember getting these express dmr lift parts from a kind worker there before it was modded. he gave me the parts: call button positioning system all floor buttons + alarm button indicator and such
Express did indeed share patent information with westinghouse. Most Express gearless motors were manufactured in Northampton for the UK and Hong Kong Markets under patent originally a westinghouse design.
The Express lift company had an Agreement with Westinghouse elevators to use each others equipment. The gearless machines were standard size and fitted to hundreds of express installations in the uk. Gearless machines are installed to provide a quicker journey compared to standard geared machines which can travel up to a maxium of around 2.5mps.
@mishagianoli The machine room is mounted above the lift, on the 16th floor. But you'll see that the motor is mounted "next to" the shaft, then the ropes go up and over via rope diverters (the big wheels). In this motor room at 4 lifts - a fireman's lift, then 3 other passenger lifts (you can see them in the "part 2" video)
Sorry for the 9 month reply lol! Company is called "The Express Lift Company" which was based in Northampton UK, taken over by Otis in about 2000, if you are still interested. Sorry for no reply for so long, didnt see your question
Eine solch aufwändige und komplizierte Anlage habe ich noch nicht gesehen. Unglaublich. Grundgütiger muss die fehleranfällig gewesen sein. Aber da hat die Fehlersuche noch Spaß gemacht. 😀 Vielen Dank für das Video. Echt toll!
Translate "I have never seen such an elaborate and complicated system. Unbelievable. It must have been more error-prone. But troubleshooting was still fun. 😀 Thank you for the video. Really great!". Thanks very much Andreas! Yes, amazing piece of engineering, but unfortunately the only engineers that could fix any problems retired from work. So going forwards, no engineer had any knowledge of the system, and the lifts were modernised!
yeah, that camera did 720p and it was fairly new at the time. All my videos with 640x480 have all deteriorated on youtube and are hardly watchable now, so very lucky!
Sound quality is quite good as well. I recently found my old GoPro and I remembered when I used to take it everywhere, in case I found a lift. Because I have it now, I always have it on me.
yep - makes you wonder what they did with all the old kit - probably skipped it (bin). By the way, the goods entrance (see 0:37) is now a nice looking reception area with a normal looking passenger lift in it - this passenger lift WAS the fireman's lift (the lift in the video) - so everythings been changed around.
I doubt it. This was filmed about 2 years ago, but the installation was due to be ripped out a few months later. Damn shame, but at least it was filmed before it was modernised.
We had 1970s express lifts at my old 7 floor college in Torquay. Very reliable never stalled on me once. I was at the college for 6 years. Sadly the college was demolished a few years ago. They were the Rolls Royce of lifts!
To this day I only know of 2 Lift mechanics who had a great deal of patience when it came to problem solving on this equipment. I can recall back in the late 1980s one of these guys figured out a selector fault which many had tried to fix for 30 days. 30 days can you imaginbe the BIG Pile of Cigareete Butts on the motor room floor.
I assume it's because the indicator contacts are operated by the advancer, which is running ahead of the synchroniser very quickly at startup. Whether that is correct I am not sure, I would have thought the differential distance should have tracked the car speed more closely. But I am not an expert on this system, although I would like to be! If someone would care to find me an example of this controller, I will happily set it up in our electromechanical museum. We have three lifts so far, but nothing as complex and exciting as this! Anyway, fantastic vid, thanks for taking the time to capture this. I do hope we can find others...
+Peter Lomas Very interesting and I'm so glad I managed to film this lift in action before it was removed. Facinating stuff Peter. I have been reading the documents that you have provided to me with interest. It's just a shame that I cannot get back to this lift to compare "all that I've learn recently" to the actual machinery in operation. RIP the DMR controller.
Wow! I never heard that before, but it seems to be a very clever construction! In Austria we just know Schindler, Otis, Thyssen Krupp and O&K I would take a ride with that Express Lifts haha
@liftboy92 Yes, I remember that video that you did. Yes, there is no direct connection between the lift and selector. See 5:46 - 6:10. It's connected together with cables (wires) not directly like on your video. Come back and view the video again, as I have now finished the annotations. Matt
This is a quite strange floor selector. Is it right, that there is no direct connection from the car to the selector as in my "Füller+Knörzer" Video at the Romeo tower? This elevator looks quite worn out, but lucky it's still existing. Is this controlled by a motor-generator set or solid state drives?
@jaymietreadwell Possible, but I don't think there is a 'Express/Kone' connection. I came across a lift that was half Express/half Kone, but it's probably because Kone took over at some stage and did some modernisation work. Costs megabucks to do a 'total' upgrade, so probably only replaced the parts that needed changing.
@matheusmatos32 Yes, interesting! There is plenty of space in that selector cabinet for building with more floors. Sadly, this stuff has probably been ripped out by now... all lifts in this building were due to be modernised about 3-4 months after I filmed it, which passed ages ago.
DMR to this day still are the fastest mechanical selector system . I was involved with The Central Square Site between 1980s-1990s where it would do 1200FPM. From ground floor to top level 25 it was able to travel all the way in less than 15 seconds. In 1999 it was all ripped out to be replaced with MCE doing the same speed. There's a BIG difference in Ride Quality between the Old DC Generator Speed Control over the Rectfied Drives.Today everyone now uses Variable Freq Drives. They're Shit.
Nice video, and this confirms the brand for one of the lifts in my area before modernisation, it's an EPL/KONE, which has the same buttons as this. Therefore, it looks like Express and EPL/KONE are related
This Video and Part 2, Simply Amazing for you to have found one of these still going around. Like finding The Holy Grail. In Sydney we used to have 5 High Rise Sites with the same. They were Lend Lease House, PIBA House, Oxford Square,Central Square and The Biggest of them all Australia Square.In its day and today DRM is the true Rolls Royce of Elevator. I would do anything to see and video one of these.
Near Victoria, London. I'll PM you the exact address if you want, but they have all been ripped out now + it's an office building so you'll not get in there to check them out.
Those deflector sheaves are Hugh! Kind of sad they upgraded to PCB and computers its an amazing example of precision endangering, watching the floor selector is exciting, as the motors move the roller chain The MG sets are very quiet, a hotel job I had years ago, the MG set was a noisy bugger! Safety was well planned and designed with the steel cage around the deflectors and cables. I would like to see this preserved in a museum and a life size working exhibit.
Here is something I never quite understood why it happens, and I see it a lot in modern lifts these days as well. When the door shuts, I see the counter click down 2 floors, the instant that the door has shut though. It quickly clicked past 14 and went to 13 for a second, then blanked out until passing Lvl 12, and then it shows normally. I don't understand why that happens, nor do I understand why some modern lifts do that, they show the floor too early, or they click over 2-3 floors at once before the lift is going
+Ryan O'Malley Hmmm, this is a challenging one to explain, but I'll give it a go. OLD LIFTS (RELAY GENERATION) - These are not really "programmable". The floor indicator is linked to the mechanical devices that make the lift do what it does. Watch this... ruclips.net/video/5GevDdd_IOY/видео.html as this is the stuff that I mean. So when a lift begins it's travels, the device which represents the lifts position in the shaft (called the floor selector) some times gets a head start because the designers know that to answer a call, it must first slow down, then get level with the floor, then stop. So the floor selector (especially in fast lifts and the old otis lifts) gets a head start - the floor position lamps are linked to this, so this is why the indicated floor goes really fast when it starts, so that a call is found and the slowing down sequence can begin long before the lift actually gets to it. In this DMR lift, when just before the lift starts, do you see the measuring tape - see 2:54. This might be the "advancer", but I'm not 100% sure but you get the idea? +DieselDucy did a video on a high speed Otis lift with an advancer. I'll try and find it later and give you a link. OK, so that's the old lifts, now the newer generation... New lifts can be programmed to do what ever you want them to. So if a manufacturer wanted to "appear to have very fast lifts" then they can make the floor indicator start off very fast, even though the lift car has only just started running and hasn't even passed it's first floor yet. I see some filmers say "WOW this is the fastest lift I've ever seen". But if you count the number of second from start to end, then divide it by how many floors the lift has travelled, it works out nothing special!! (1 sec per floor maybe). The lift position therefore stops long before the lift actually gets there. I hope that explains things, but let me know if you don't because I enjoy answering questions :)
+mrmattandmrchay That actually explained a lot, and I watched the other video you linked me to. Thanks for that! If I think of more questions - I'll come back to you to ask !
@jorologo LOL! Yes, i'd image it took a particular type of engineer to fix it, not one of these "diagnose and fix it quick as I want to be at home at 5pm" type engineers.
I kept yelling at my phone while he was in the motor room, "YOU'RE TO CLOSE STOP IT" but that's just me and my paranoia, I'm sure this guy knows what he is doing.
mostly high rise council blocks, if i remember rightly the door control is relay number 40. rizz briff will correct me, but i think i am right. thats the advantage of being an old lift engineer, you forget easily.
Absolutely it's been modernised lol, like, 3 months after I filmed it back in 2011. The whole visit happened as they were about to be modernised and it was more or less the last chance. The tower was going to be pulled down about 4 years ago, but was developed into flats. The lifts are long gone and the building looks nothing like it did back then (more or less gutted and rebuilt on the inside). It's a tower block near Victoria.
O, thanks for the info! Now I understand that DC generators transforms current type for the gearless machine, not for the relays and controlling system. By the drive i mean box that is called power converter. As far as I know it contains current type converter (like these generators) and, according to motor type, one of the motor controlling mechanisms (like voltage variator or something else). Is this motor controlled by voltage variation or with smth else? And how is that system made?
+David Irwin (passacaglia28) cool, glad you enjoyed then David! If you liked this one, check out "probably the best lift logic videos in the world" videos as well, oh and not forgetting "most informative lift video", oh and my recent Schindler wheel video, and....well there are too many of them!! :) Thanks for your comment!
ELPaso1990TX The Harrods lifts controllers are probably new-ish. They will contain a variable frequency drive (VFD) so that the motor can be controlled by gradually accelerate and decelerating making it very smooth. With the motor room in a separate room (in comparison to the new MRL generation) this also hides any sounds. Older lifts had fixed frequences, so the shift from HIGH-LOW speed was not smooth. The pulley systems shouldn't have anything to do with it. Not sure how much you know on lifts, but these are the lift systems that I can think of: 1) Gearless Traction - one big motor with no gear box for high rise buildings. Normally very smooth. 2) Geared Traction (very common) - a motor, a gear box then attached to the lift cabling - has to be in a separate room, but "can be" mounted at the bottom of the shaft, but normally it's above the shaft. 3) Roped Hydraulic - a ram, pushing up a platform, then a rope system so that when the ram moves a little amount, the lift moves a big amount 4) Holed Hydraulic - the ram is drilled into the ground and normally pushes the lift up from underneath 5) MRL - motor room less, the motor is in the lift shaft. All noises can easily be heard from inside the lift car. With VFDs
im working on a old express right now. upgrading the selector to a new LCL electronic selector.. bloody thing running top to bottom and not taking landing calls.. doing my head in lol. old selector last tested 1977... shame cant add pics or vid fir you
It's because there is not enough room over the top of the shaft for the machinery. The ropes are diverted across to the motor. The sheaves need to be big enough to handle the ropes at high speed. Did you see the way the sheave just over the motor is slightly wonky when it goes round? lol The bit with the measuring tape that comes out at the start is the advancer that catches calls ahead of arriving at them. It also activates the switches where the "card" goes in and out which I'm assuming does the different motor speeds to slow it down. Fascinating design, but no more! :(
So I see many elevator systems there use 415 volts. Curious as to how that voltage came about? Here in USA we use 120, 240, an 480 volt systems. Is 415 common there or is 415 specific to lifts? Love your videos by the way.
Thanks for the comment! I've never though about why "415". I found this (link below) but then lost the will to live when I was reading it!! www.quora.com/If-single-phase-power-is-220-volts-why-is-3-phase-440-volts-and-not-660
Don Brown Common voltages in the EU are 230V single phase - 400V 3 phase. This used to be 220 / 380 but has been increased to have one standard voltage across the whole EU. 415 maybe matches to 240V which some country use (like AUS). I think the reason for the ~230V voltage was because of the old Philips lamps which perform best at that voltage for some reason. It's a story that goes back 50+ years anyway.
415 Volts is derived from the square root of 3 times 240V (which is the RMS voltage here in australia, and most of europe) the reason you say 440/460/480 is because you are doubling the 220/230/240V you get from two phases.
Um abraço direto do Brasil. Uma pena saber que uma máquina dessa não existe mais hoje. Provavelmente substituída por um elevador que não vai durar nem metade do tempo. Uma pena
Bonsoir à tous, j'ai emprunté les 3 ascenseurs Soretex (mod: ThyssenKrupp) rapide au tour immeuble à 16 étages et monté au 10eme étage à Canteleu. Merci cordialement, Johan.
If you look carefully this is the MOST advance lift one can offer back in the days. That is why it is super complex, look at express 1st generations, they aren't this complicated. Nowerdays, all of those cabinets are replaced by one cabinet, inside that cabinet is the logic in the size of a smartphone. Because nowerdays its all actually computerized. But modern tech can never be reliable.
Wander why this one has such a heavy winch asembly relitive to all the outhers in your vids. It's a huge shame these are all being ripped out, hope someone maintains a working one somewhere for historical referance. It's also a shame more people arn't interested in this stuff, I hate how everything is hidden away today.
@jaymietreadwell Last night with all the electric storms we experienced in SydneyI had a job at Rockdale with 2 lifts blowing up both VF Drive Units along with both digtal encoders and 1x the drive monitoring circuit boards blowing the Bum outta itself. Bring Back The Old Ward Leonard DC generator controll.
Hi,
The manufacturer is actually called "The Express Lift Company" and was based in Northampton here in the UK. It was bought by Otis with another company (Evans Lifts) and renamed "Express Evans". In 2000 it became part of the "Otis" empire. Express lifts was a major manufacturer over here during the 1960s upwards, so there are many installations still in existance.
Those square Express buttons can still be found quite often in New Zealand, where Express used them as their main fixtures for many years in the 70s and 80s.
This is hands down, probably the most interesting machine room I have ever seen. I've been in quite a few, older Otis relay machine rooms, but this is incredible. I'll be in the UK sometime this year, wish I could see this!
The synchronous drive set-up is something wild for the 70's. I see the variable frequency controllers used a lot now. Smooth and accurate. Very good video and thank your partner! And that lift WAS fast!
Bit late, those lifts went 4 metres per second. Insanely fast for the 1960s when this lift was installed.
I wonder how Rizz Briff is doing. I liked his videos.
+bigclivedotcom Hi. He is fine. I'll give you a PM.
+bigclivedotcom hmmm not so easy so send PMs anymore especially from mobile apps! Will PM you later when I'm home. Matt
Wow, didn't expect to see you here!
LBSi UK
😂
Hi, yeah one of my favs and glad I had the opportunity to film these as it's all gone now!
I know a fair bit about lifts but only to a certain level as I am not in the lift trade. You may know this already, but this is only what I can answer...
Gearless traction, DC (running from the DC generator "pod" things-these are on vid2). Not sure about 'controlling block' and what that means. Speed control is done as that card slides out of the selector at 2:34 - you can see the switches all in a line.
@Eriksmate No probs! I'm really glad I had the chance to film this. This installation is about to be ripped out and modernised. That's a real shame as there must be very few of these left now.
I'd love to meet the person who came up with this design! Facinating stuff!
@jorologo Was great to be invited to film this! Soon to be modernised if it isn't already. Should be in a museum this! Facinating stuff! Thanks!
That is a very cool lift indicator panel with those globes and lenzes. Also interesting drive with the extra pulleys, and very quiet motor room.
RODALCO2007 One of my favourite videos this one - this is the only one on youtube. Filmed it many years ago just before it was all modernised. So glad that I had the opportunity to film it. Thanks *****
mrmattandmrchay Great that you captured some nice vintage equipment. We have similar things happen in NZ too. I work in electrical substations and it is a shame to see 50 year old equipment to go to the scrapyard while new flimsy stuff with a doubtful lifespan replaces it.
how does the indicator panel work?
Too bad you walked right by one of the most interesting parts of the equipment, the Silvostat contact switch box that is driven off the hoist motor to regulate lift speed. It is a highly complex mechanism with a copper disk generating a magnetic field to drive an arm which then causes a set of 20 silver contacts to make/break and regulate the motor speed curve (this same type of copper induction drive is used in an auto speedometer). This lift is a USA made Westinghouse lift just re-badged to the local manufacturer. I serviced 2 DMR lifts for many years before the were modernized by Otis......I don't think the modern Otis hardware will run for as long a time as the old Westinghouse equipment.
Eric Brandt Hilton London Metropole?
Wow that’s a shame
This makes me *VERY* mad. I WISH HE WOULD HAVE LOOKED INSIDE!!!
ALSO I THINK THERE ISN’T MANY OF THOSE *IN THE WORLD!!!*
That's incorrect they were manufactured in Northampton with express gearless machines. Relays contractors push buttons door operators mks 4 dispatchers with westinghouse selector and drag magnet regulators
I remember getting these express dmr lift parts from a kind worker there before it was modded.
he gave me the parts:
call button
positioning system
all floor buttons + alarm button
indicator and such
Express did indeed share patent information with westinghouse. Most Express gearless motors were manufactured in Northampton for the UK and Hong Kong Markets under patent originally a westinghouse design.
Did that say "maximum load: 10 persons / 680 kg"? Just shows how much fatter we've gotten over the years... now that would only be 8 people or so.
batlin that's unsafe , 680 kg is for 9 persons , because the basic load for 9 persons is 675 ;) the load Would be 750 or 800 kg
They always overestimate the number of people
The Express lift company had an Agreement with Westinghouse elevators to use each others equipment. The gearless machines were standard size and fitted to hundreds of express installations in the uk. Gearless machines are installed to provide a quicker journey compared to standard geared machines which can travel up to a maxium of around 2.5mps.
@mishagianoli The machine room is mounted above the lift, on the 16th floor. But you'll see that the motor is mounted "next to" the shaft, then the ropes go up and over via rope diverters (the big wheels).
In this motor room at 4 lifts - a fireman's lift, then 3 other passenger lifts (you can see them in the "part 2" video)
What a wonderfully over-complicated machine room! Great video.
Sorry for the 9 month reply lol! Company is called "The Express Lift Company" which was based in Northampton UK, taken over by Otis in about 2000, if you are still interested. Sorry for no reply for so long, didnt see your question
Eine solch aufwändige und komplizierte Anlage habe ich noch nicht gesehen. Unglaublich. Grundgütiger muss die fehleranfällig gewesen sein. Aber da hat die Fehlersuche noch Spaß gemacht. 😀 Vielen Dank für das Video. Echt toll!
Translate "I have never seen such an elaborate and complicated system. Unbelievable. It must have been more error-prone. But troubleshooting was still fun. 😀 Thank you for the video. Really great!". Thanks very much Andreas! Yes, amazing piece of engineering, but unfortunately the only engineers that could fix any problems retired from work. So going forwards, no engineer had any knowledge of the system, and the lifts were modernised!
It is amazing that you got a good quality video of this lift before it was modernised.
yeah, that camera did 720p and it was fairly new at the time. All my videos with 640x480 have all deteriorated on youtube and are hardly watchable now, so very lucky!
Sound quality is quite good as well. I recently found my old GoPro and I remembered when I used to take it everywhere, in case I found a lift. Because I have it now, I always have it on me.
mrmattandmrchay
PLEASE there must be one DMR left.
that is one beautiful piece of machinery!
yep - makes you wonder what they did with all the old kit - probably skipped it (bin).
By the way, the goods entrance (see 0:37) is now a nice looking reception area with a normal looking passenger lift in it - this passenger lift WAS the fireman's lift (the lift in the video) - so everythings been changed around.
I doubt it. This was filmed about 2 years ago, but the installation was due to be ripped out a few months later.
Damn shame, but at least it was filmed before it was modernised.
You'd see the same indicator in older OTIS elevators in the US. Nice catch.
Wow! A mechanical computer!
I used to service about 20 of these DMR's. Those indicators were a bugger to change the bulbs.
We had 1970s express lifts at my old 7 floor college in Torquay. Very reliable never stalled on me once. I was at the college for 6 years. Sadly the college was demolished a few years ago. They were the Rolls Royce of lifts!
Damn that's a shame :)
Well that's a real *EXPRESS* lift
To this day I only know of 2 Lift mechanics who had a great deal of patience when it came to problem solving on this equipment. I can recall back in the late 1980s one of these guys figured out a selector fault which many had tried to fix for 30 days. 30 days can you imaginbe the BIG Pile of Cigareete Butts on the motor room floor.
This is great. Old technology has character. The floor display is so cool. I'm putting on my fav list!
I assume it's because the indicator contacts are operated by the advancer, which is running ahead of the synchroniser very quickly at startup. Whether that is correct I am not sure, I would have thought the differential distance should have tracked the car speed more closely. But I am not an expert on this system, although I would like to be! If someone would care to find me an example of this controller, I will happily set it up in our electromechanical museum. We have three lifts so far, but nothing as complex and exciting as this!
Anyway, fantastic vid, thanks for taking the time to capture this. I do hope we can find others...
+Peter Lomas Very interesting and I'm so glad I managed to film this lift in action before it was removed. Facinating stuff Peter. I have been reading the documents that you have provided to me with interest. It's just a shame that I cannot get back to this lift to compare "all that I've learn recently" to the actual machinery in operation. RIP the DMR controller.
Wow! I never heard that before, but it seems to be a very clever construction!
In Austria we just know Schindler, Otis, Thyssen Krupp and O&K
I would take a ride with that Express Lifts haha
Those floor number counters in the life car are very cool and I like the script they use.
Matt You have been Lucky to capture one of the best Elevator Videos on You Tube. I would swap 10 of Mine for one of these.
I'd do 40 of mine. These lifts are truly amazing and were one of a kind. Now they're extinct.
@liftboy92 Yes, I remember that video that you did. Yes, there is no direct connection between the lift and selector. See 5:46 - 6:10. It's connected together with cables (wires) not directly like on your video.
Come back and view the video again, as I have now finished the annotations. Matt
is it me or these old lifts are shockingly smooth and quiet!
This is a quite strange floor selector. Is it right, that there is no direct connection from the car to the selector as in my "Füller+Knörzer" Video at the Romeo tower? This elevator looks quite worn out, but lucky it's still existing.
Is this controlled by a motor-generator set or solid state drives?
i honestly can't stop watching this video! the last 100 or so views are from me! onto part two!
Thanks for this awesome video, Matt! What type the motor is and what type of drive (I mean "motor controlling block") does it use?
You should do a revisit on the place where this legendary lift was
@jaymietreadwell Possible, but I don't think there is a 'Express/Kone' connection. I came across a lift that was half Express/half Kone, but it's probably because Kone took over at some stage and did some modernisation work. Costs megabucks to do a 'total' upgrade, so probably only replaced the parts that needed changing.
crazyjeep Do you still work on these DMRs? Are there still some in existence in the UK?
cara mengatasi
@matheusmatos32 Yes, interesting! There is plenty of space in that selector cabinet for building with more floors.
Sadly, this stuff has probably been ripped out by now... all lifts in this building were due to be modernised about 3-4 months after I filmed it, which passed ages ago.
I really love Old elevators like these! Especailly if its around from the 1950's or so!
Even if it has Those manual Doors you open!
me too!!! did you see my latest one about the 1905 lift machine room?
mrmattandmrchay Yeah! its one of the most coolest ever! they should keep old stuff like this cause there just awesome!!!
2:20 I'll bet you could teach that think to make a mean latte.
Nope, the motor room is overhead.
kansasthunderman1 said: "DMR" stands for "Direct Measured Regulation"
DMR to this day still are the fastest mechanical selector system . I was involved with The Central Square Site between 1980s-1990s where it would do 1200FPM. From ground floor to top level 25 it was able to travel all the way in less than 15 seconds. In 1999 it was all ripped out to be replaced with MCE doing the same speed. There's a BIG difference in Ride Quality between the Old DC Generator Speed Control over the Rectfied Drives.Today everyone now uses Variable Freq Drives. They're Shit.
Nice video, and this confirms the brand for one of the lifts in my area before modernisation, it's an EPL/KONE, which has the same buttons as this. Therefore, it looks like Express and EPL/KONE are related
That's not smoke, it's just the frequency of the fluorescent lighting affecting the camera image.
an nice old efficient lift ;)
Why were the controls not put into lockable cabinets? Extremely unsafe in my opinion.
This Video and Part 2, Simply Amazing for you to have found one of these still going around. Like finding The Holy Grail. In Sydney we used to have 5 High Rise Sites with the same. They were Lend Lease House, PIBA House, Oxford Square,Central Square and The Biggest of them all Australia Square.In its day and today DRM is the true Rolls Royce of Elevator. I would do anything to see and video one of these.
Near Victoria, London. I'll PM you the exact address if you want, but they have all been ripped out now + it's an office building so you'll not get in there to check them out.
Those deflector sheaves are Hugh! Kind of sad they upgraded to PCB and computers its an amazing example of precision endangering, watching the floor selector is exciting, as the motors move the roller chain The MG sets are very quiet, a hotel job I had years ago, the MG set was a noisy bugger! Safety was well planned and designed with the steel cage around the deflectors and cables. I would like to see this preserved in a museum and a life size working exhibit.
TheTheo58
Here is something I never quite understood why it happens, and I see it a lot in modern lifts these days as well. When the door shuts, I see the counter click down 2 floors, the instant that the door has shut though. It quickly clicked past 14 and went to 13 for a second, then blanked out until passing Lvl 12, and then it shows normally. I don't understand why that happens, nor do I understand why some modern lifts do that, they show the floor too early, or they click over 2-3 floors at once before the lift is going
+Ryan O'Malley Hmmm, this is a challenging one to explain, but I'll give it a go. OLD LIFTS (RELAY GENERATION) - These are not really "programmable". The floor indicator is linked to the mechanical devices that make the lift do what it does. Watch this... ruclips.net/video/5GevDdd_IOY/видео.html as this is the stuff that I mean. So when a lift begins it's travels, the device which represents the lifts position in the shaft (called the floor selector) some times gets a head start because the designers know that to answer a call, it must first slow down, then get level with the floor, then stop. So the floor selector (especially in fast lifts and the old otis lifts) gets a head start - the floor position lamps are linked to this, so this is why the indicated floor goes really fast when it starts, so that a call is found and the slowing down sequence can begin long before the lift actually gets to it.
In this DMR lift, when just before the lift starts, do you see the measuring tape - see 2:54. This might be the "advancer", but I'm not 100% sure but you get the idea? +DieselDucy did a video on a high speed Otis lift with an advancer. I'll try and find it later and give you a link. OK, so that's the old lifts, now the newer generation...
New lifts can be programmed to do what ever you want them to. So if a manufacturer wanted to "appear to have very fast lifts" then they can make the floor indicator start off very fast, even though the lift car has only just started running and hasn't even passed it's first floor yet. I see some filmers say "WOW this is the fastest lift I've ever seen". But if you count the number of second from start to end, then divide it by how many floors the lift has travelled, it works out nothing special!! (1 sec per floor maybe). The lift position therefore stops long before the lift actually gets there.
I hope that explains things, but let me know if you don't because I enjoy answering questions :)
+mrmattandmrchay That actually explained a lot, and I watched the other video you linked me to. Thanks for that! If I think of more questions - I'll come back to you to ask !
oh i did reply!! wish youtube would put replies in a logical place underneath the post
Now they do.
Jack H. 🤣🤣🤣
They listened to him
@jorologo LOL! Yes, i'd image it took a particular type of engineer to fix it, not one of these "diagnose and fix it quick as I want to be at home at 5pm" type engineers.
I kept yelling at my phone while he was in the motor room, "YOU'RE TO CLOSE STOP IT" but that's just me and my paranoia, I'm sure this guy knows what he is doing.
@harrihealey02 Yep, you've got it. Check out the videos again as I've finished the annotations. Loads of information for you!
omg this elevator is so complicatet with all this chains and motors haha :D on modern elevators i never saw such stuff, but it's very interesting!
mostly high rise council blocks, if i remember rightly the door control is relay number 40. rizz briff will correct me, but i think i am right. thats the advantage of being an old lift engineer, you forget easily.
This is a really cool motor room mate recon it has been moddised yet ?
Absolutely it's been modernised lol, like, 3 months after I filmed it back in 2011. The whole visit happened as they were about to be modernised and it was more or less the last chance. The tower was going to be pulled down about 4 years ago, but was developed into flats. The lifts are long gone and the building looks nothing like it did back then (more or less gutted and rebuilt on the inside). It's a tower block near Victoria.
i have installed lots of these in 60s and 70s.
Can you remember the H.P. rating of the winch motors? Nice video!
O, thanks for the info! Now I understand that DC generators transforms current type for the gearless machine, not for the relays and controlling system.
By the drive i mean box that is called power converter. As far as I know it contains current type converter (like these generators) and, according to motor type, one of the motor controlling mechanisms (like voltage variator or something else). Is this motor controlled by voltage variation or with smth else? And how is that system made?
cool, thanks :)
Works like a jukebox this one :D
I thoroughly enjoyed this video as well as others. :)
+David Irwin (passacaglia28) cool, glad you enjoyed then David! If you liked this one, check out "probably the best lift logic videos in the world" videos as well, oh and not forgetting "most informative lift video", oh and my recent Schindler wheel video, and....well there are too many of them!! :) Thanks for your comment!
babi
pig
So fascinating!!
confirmed - all gone :( Went past it the other day
I've always wondered why some lifts are so smooth and quiet like the ones in Harrods. Is it because of having a pulley system like this?
ELPaso1990TX The Harrods lifts controllers are probably new-ish. They will contain a variable frequency drive (VFD) so that the motor can be controlled by gradually accelerate and decelerating making it very smooth. With the motor room in a separate room (in comparison to the new MRL generation) this also hides any sounds. Older lifts had fixed frequences, so the shift from HIGH-LOW speed was not smooth. The pulley systems shouldn't have anything to do with it.
Not sure how much you know on lifts, but these are the lift systems that I can think of:
1) Gearless Traction - one big motor with no gear box for high rise buildings. Normally very smooth.
2) Geared Traction (very common) - a motor, a gear box then attached to the lift cabling - has to be in a separate room, but "can be" mounted at the bottom of the shaft, but normally it's above the shaft.
3) Roped Hydraulic - a ram, pushing up a platform, then a rope system so that when the ram moves a little amount, the lift moves a big amount
4) Holed Hydraulic - the ram is drilled into the ground and normally pushes the lift up from underneath
5) MRL - motor room less, the motor is in the lift shaft. All noises can easily be heard from inside the lift car.
With VFDs
@jorologo I can agree with you there about those Variable Freq. Drives
We still have a DMR Westinghouse here is Nashville Tn.
+Mike and Cindy Wheeler Do you have a picture at all? Would be interested to see. Thanks for the message
im working on a old express right now. upgrading the selector to a new LCL electronic selector.. bloody thing running top to bottom and not taking landing calls.. doing my head in lol. old selector last tested 1977... shame cant add pics or vid fir you
You should put some related video on your channel - liked the "track off" video - looks like an old lift that one.
That's a massive Motor
How does the indicator work?
That floor selector is jnterresting, I've not seen this design before. I wonder why this lift needs 3 really big sheaves.
It's because there is not enough room over the top of the shaft for the machinery. The ropes are diverted across to the motor. The sheaves need to be big enough to handle the ropes at high speed. Did you see the way the sheave just over the motor is slightly wonky when it goes round? lol
The bit with the measuring tape that comes out at the start is the advancer that catches calls ahead of arriving at them. It also activates the switches where the "card" goes in and out which I'm assuming does the different motor speeds to slow it down.
Fascinating design, but no more! :(
seriously fast lift
So I see many elevator systems there use 415 volts. Curious as to how that voltage came about? Here in USA we use 120, 240, an 480 volt systems. Is 415 common there or is 415 specific to lifts? Love your videos by the way.
Thanks for the comment! I've never though about why "415". I found this (link below) but then lost the will to live when I was reading it!!
www.quora.com/If-single-phase-power-is-220-volts-why-is-3-phase-440-volts-and-not-660
Don Brown Common voltages in the EU are 230V single phase - 400V 3 phase. This used to be 220 / 380 but has been increased to have one standard voltage across the whole EU. 415 maybe matches to 240V which some country use (like AUS). I think the reason for the ~230V voltage was because of the old Philips lamps which perform best at that voltage for some reason. It's a story that goes back 50+ years anyway.
415 Volts is derived from the square root of 3 times 240V (which is the RMS voltage here in australia, and most of europe) the reason you say 440/460/480 is because you are doubling the 220/230/240V you get from two phases.
The noise of it
Lovely noise! Now it's been upgraded bet it's quiet.
Were they forced to upgrade?
+douro20 There were only a few people left that knew how to fix it. These people retired, so yes, I guess the upgrade was inevitable.
ah i wish i was old enough to know how to service those systems!!
This is so advanced
@jorologo I have a few videos coming up from Australia Square as well - they are about a month away as I have a fairly big backlog of videos
That "selector" though...
Aaaw Steampunk Technology with light bulbs and big wheels and stuff. I love that. Just like some Titanic stuff.
Sounds like we are on the same wave length, me too! Prefer lamps and relays over circuit boards any day!
You should make a vid of how DMR controllers work
How is located the machine room?
Um abraço direto do Brasil. Uma pena saber que uma máquina dessa não existe mais hoje. Provavelmente substituída por um elevador que não vai durar nem metade do tempo. Uma pena
what manufacturer is the elevator?
Why does the indicator indicate the first 3 floor's very fast.
You could stop them by booting the door from inside the lift , the lift would always re-start thank god!
Im not an expert but the elevators style, and even colours in the motor room all look from the 40s or 50s. Cool video btw...
retroolschool Yes, they started with green which looks like a previous era, now mostly blue and yellow. Thanks for the comment
And orange on generic modernisation motors.
I wish it was one of the last dmr's still have a bunch of them to work on. Good when there good but bad when they want to be.
The controller looks kind of like a Westinghouse
Bonsoir à tous, j'ai emprunté les 3 ascenseurs Soretex (mod: ThyssenKrupp) rapide au tour immeuble à 16 étages et monté au 10eme étage à Canteleu.
Merci cordialement, Johan.
One question, why do we need huge motor for an elevator that lift only humans and nothing else?
If you look carefully this is the MOST advance lift one can offer back in the days. That is why it is super complex, look at express 1st generations, they aren't this complicated.
Nowerdays, all of those cabinets are replaced by one cabinet, inside that cabinet is the logic in the size of a smartphone. Because nowerdays its all actually computerized. But modern tech can never be reliable.
Motors don’t need to be this big nowadays. Motor technology has improved, and we can have a higher traction from a smaller motor than we could before.
I assume DMR stands for "Downstairs Motor Room"?
because the bulbs project numbers onto the screen
Wander why this one has such a heavy winch asembly relitive to all the outhers in your vids.
It's a huge shame these are all being ripped out, hope someone maintains a working one somewhere for historical referance. It's also a shame more people arn't interested in this stuff, I hate how everything is hidden away today.
Where is this?
@jaymietreadwell
Last night with all the electric storms we experienced in SydneyI had a job at Rockdale with 2 lifts blowing up both VF Drive Units along with both digtal encoders and 1x the drive monitoring circuit boards blowing the Bum outta itself. Bring Back The Old Ward Leonard DC generator controll.