Shaver Sockets for UK Bathrooms - With Isolating Transformer
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- Опубликовано: 4 сен 2020
- An older example of a shaver socket outlet as used in UK bathrooms. Normal socket outlets are only permitted where they are at least 3 metres from the edge of the bath, so in reality they are never installed.
These shaver sockets contain an isolating transformer and are limited to 20VA, so are only of use for very low power items like shavers and toothbrushes.
Modern examples are very similar, although usually riveted together so more difficult to take apart for demonstrations like this.
The black 2 pin plug in the video is a Europlug, the UK shaver plug is similar but has slightly shorter parallel pins.
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We had a guy come over from the USA to work in our company. The first time I went round his house, I was surprised to find his WiFi enabled printer setup in his bathroom, because "That's the only place we can plug it in".
John Watkins I wonder if it broke the transformer in the outlet
Especially if it was a laser printer
Sometimes you'll find such shaver sockets in hotels here in Germany. Of course the version with a transformer and in most cases with two outlets for the two different voltages. Like the UK version they require a 2-gang box.
According to VDE 0100-701 (german equivalent of the BS 7671-701) it's permitted to install such shaver outlets in a room which contains a shower and/or bathtub inside of protective zone 2. Even if they're normally not the standard here. In 1984 it was introduced that circuits in rooms which contain a bathtub and/or a shower must have RCD protection. With this new version of the VDE 0100 they also banned the new installation of AC type RCDs. It was introduced in 1983 with a transition period of one year.
20VA is the minimum, they can go up to 50VA. The specifications for these shaver sockets are normalised in Europe (EN 61558-2-5 ).
I got a mirrored bathroom cabinet in my guest bathroom, in there is such an outlet unit installed with a transformer. The room doesn't contain a bathtub or a shower, but it's in there. But I actually don't use it because there are two standard outlets next to the sink...and I perform a wet shave which requires no electricity at all.
In addition to the "Shavers only" there's also a symbol on it...
upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/21/ShaverSocketUK.jpg
German shaver socket:
www.elektroradar.de/rasier-steckdose-282026.html
The main difference between UK and Germany is that here sokekts can be installed nearby the shower or tub. The distance only needs to be 0.6m in Germany Austria and Switzerland and not 3m like in the UK.
@@simonschertler3034 No! 60cm is within zone 2. There are only hardwired washing machines permitted and light fixtures, no outlets or switches. Also the zones are reaching 6cm deep into the wall. And cables in that area are only permitted for devices like water heating for the shower/tub or making the bubbles in a fancy jacuzzi tub. No other cables of other circuits in that area, so be careful if the wall isn't that thick, for cables in the room next to the bathroom...
This regulation is harmonised with Europe. There's only one deviation in the german version:
Hardwired water heater, even in zone 1 or 2 doesn't require RCD protection if the disconnecting time is below 0.4s in a TN-grid. In TT it's almost impossible to get this disconnecting time without a RCD.
It's not an error to install RCD protection. Such codes and regulations are always the minimum standard, you can alwas exceed it to increase the level of safety.
@@Marcel_Germann of course! Sockets and switches are not allowed with in 60cm around tubs or showers (special regulations for showers with no shower tub), but at 65cm there can be switches and sockets as long as they are RCD protected. In the UK the minimum distance between the tub and the first normal socket is 3m according to JW and this is a huge difference compared to the EU countries.
@@simonschertler3034 As the german difference is with a not RCD-protected water heater in zone 1 if the grid is TN and the disconnecting time less than 0.4s. The british outlets are normally wired in a ring circuit and fused with 2.5mm² twin-and-earth cable. On twin-and-earth only the active conductors are 2.5mm², the protective earth conductor is only 1.5mm². And the ring is fused with 32A. That's another difference compared to german installations, here the PE in cables is always of the same size as the active conductors. I don't know if that's got something to do with that. Sometimes the way of thinking of the persons writing the regulations is weird. That's the reason I don't buy the pure regulations anymore, instead I buy such books like "VDE 0100 and its practical application" published by the VDE. There you have the regulation itself and explanations and reasons for their decisisions.
Propably in the UK they calculated the length of the shower hose and how far the water can squirt to make the decision of 3m and didn't consider that there can be constructional obstructions like a massive dividing wall next to the shower or tub or a shower cubicle which will prevent water getting in a particular direction.
And I remember back then here it was the same thing. Bathrooms with a control switch outside of the bathroom. The control switch is used if you can't see the light fixture directly and contains a neon indicator. It was fun, especially for kids, to walk by and switch-off the lights and hear the complaints and swearing from inside the bathroom....
I installed a control switch for the lighting in my attic.
And there are some alternative methods to get a safe installation in a bathroom, for example using IPX4 rated outlets, or a 16A fused radiant circuit protected by a 10mA type A RCD especially for the bathroom. In bathrooms you don't require much electric power, so the 16A would be sufficient for a hair dryer, toothbrush and a shaver. In Germany the bathroom is considered to be a dry room, the air moisture is only increased for a short period of time, but most of the time of the day it's dry. So the VDE doesn't rule that the outlets and switches must have an IPX4 rating.
@@Marcel_Germann In bathrooms you don't require much electric power? Those hair dryers are notorious here for tripping breakers.
The 20 VA limitation is the result of the transformer being designed with only sufficient iron in the core to support limited magnetic flux which will only produce 20VA in the secondary. Any attempt to draw more power will just saturate the core. The waveform will go to a square wave (well, clipped and distorted sine) with reduced voltage and no more power will be transferred. So the transformer is both isolating and power limiting.
only kind-of. The output is power-limited, but the input side will still overheat quickly because the core no longer helps limit the current when saturated. At that point, only the resistance of the windings will limit the current. You do need a fuse, breaker and/or thermal fuse for it to make it safe.
I would much rather have a conversation with you than my wife.
those shaver sockets are for me as continental european a synonyme for "staying at a hotel or beeing on a ferry cabin"
You could spot them quite often on petrol stations toilets in Germany :)
They are very common in older houses and buildings in New Zealand
These were common in New Zealand in houses and hotels.
Perfect Timing. I was looking at getting either one of these.. or a dedicated face plate for the Oral B electric toothbrush.
Accepts a US plug, as well. Which I remembered from my last hop across the pond!
Which would also be the reason for having the voltage switch.
I can confirm I use a US to UK adaptor to plug stuff in to a shaver socket
My shaver light will only take a US plug on the 110 v outlet. Safer than a switch
It'd be interesting to mention the UK regs restrictions on hardwired appliances etc. in bathrooms (e.g. electric toothbrush charger via switched fcu) re IP ratings etc.
There are also shaving lights with these sockets built in. They used to use linear incandescent lamps (60w), later ones used 11w PL fluorescent and the latest ones are LED.
I recently stayed in a premier inn and had to leave to bathroom light on all night to recharge the toothbrush because the “shaver” socket was only energised when the light was on.
It makes sense attaching it to a small lighting circuit but why would it be on the switch live of all things?
@@dylanharding5720 Because the transformer can overheat if powered up continuously
@@michaeltb1358 as you leaving it on overnight proves, no it won't. No well made transformer would, even low quality ones wouldn't
@@dylanharding5720 Overnight is one thing, but permanently on is another. I had one which became seriously warm in operation.
@@michaeltb1358 they can become warn in operation, that's fine. However a transformer should never overheat unless placed under abnormal load and given it shouldn't even be running if not under load, it certainly shouldn't overheat if just idle.
Phew. . . Great timing. A spare bit of free time, couldn't click on a JW video fast enough
A close shave indeed
A Close Shave - a great episode in the Wallace and Gromit series. Now you come to think of it JW does remind me a little bit of...?!!!
In my country is normal to have the washing machine in the bathroom, that makes a lot more sense than having your dirty clothes in the kitchen like you have in the UK. Also you usually have a socket near the mirror not only for shaver but also for hair dryers, electric toothbrush, etc.
And we don't see people dying everyday for that, so I think that UK regulations are exaggerated, especially nowadays that we are required to have RCDs on every circuit.
your goverment does not care you to die from electroshock in bathroom. UK does care their ppl. simple as that.
You'd still have breakers for each room. So idk if that would be considered less safe.
@@karabesklow But no one dies.Simple as that
When we visit my mrs family in Estonia they all have the washing machine in the bathroom, kinda makes sense really
Had a big extension job with such a request from the customer when I lived in Midlands in the 90s. I said I cannot put a 13A s/o in bathroom for any reason, she said her parents have it in Belgium. I was in NIC at the time so I queried it and it was a deffo NO. Her madamship was pissed off with me. I had to go back a few months later to fit her posh gold plated bathroom light from Harrods and I found she had got some fly-by-night in to do her a socket in the bathroom. I asked to see her NIC completion form to see if anything had been added by the other idiot, don't know why cos i knew he wouldn't have made a note. I did point out the error of her ways but she didn't give a shite. However I do agree on hygiene grounds about laundry in bathroom. The foreigners do it so why are we different.
Thanks John
As a" humorous" comment--- A Euro two-pin plug will fit in 13 amp U K socket if you open the shutter shield .
Have often done this in emergency.
The 2 pin plug shown at the beginning is a European one. The UK has its own design with thicker pins closer together, which does not fit a European socket, but shaver sockets have universal connectors. Same standard as the socket - BS 4573
I recall earlier shaver sockets which were dual voltage but were the same size as a single socket. They contained an autotransformer to give the dual voltage, so they were not isolated from earth potential. They must have been the worst of both worlds giving both low power and the possibility of a lethal shock.
You will still occasionally come across them, and they really ought to be replaced for safety reasons.
nb. as for power not being delivered into bathrooms, my mother can remember when electricity was being installed in her parents council house in the 1930s (she was very young at the time), it was first installed in the bathroom, often to heat water as well. Needless to say, that changed after the war.
A lot of shavers etc still have the old U K two-pin plug fitted which is slightly narrower than the euro 2 pin. This also fits in this type socket.
The newer ones (last 30/35 years) didn't have the red manual switches to select the voltage and to enable turning it on or off as the British Standard had changed to remove the shock risk from someone using the switches with wet hands. I'm pretty sure that the on/off switch operated the primary winding, therefore if wet hands and condensation had managed to form a conductive path to the switch contacts, then a shock risk would be created. Those MK Logic shaver sockets were all very well made items like all all older MK items, especially before the introduction of Logic Plus in '96.
Looking at those terminal of that shaver socket "clamp type" were the ones introduced in the early 70's when we had a copper shortage and copper clad cables were the normal for a year or so, copper clad ally nasty cables always use to find on normal switches you would cut through cable with the screw
I have a bathroom light with built in shaver sockets made by MK. Excellent design with separate 110/240v sockets which are only live when a plug is inserted, feeding power to the transformer . Classic MK safety features. Sadly no longer available.
Along side grotty pull cords for light switches, this is my most loathed UK practice. As the homeowner I have a radial circuit installed into the bathroom with an RCD socket, and enjoy actual power in the bathroom, like the rest of the world does. Sod the rules ;-)
Matthew Millman I haven't seen a pull chord installed in the last twenty plus years- they are a legacy thing now only. I agree, they are grim, but they made sense in the days before RCD protection.
@@spencerwilton5831 instead light switches are installed exclusively outside of the bathroom. Another ridiculous practice, not even required by regulation and unique to the UK.
Living in Finland we have a totally different attitude to electricity with normal power sockets in bathrooms for hairdryers and washing machines (everyone has their washing machine in the bathroom, not the kitchen). Water damage is more of a worry though and all dishwashers and washing machines must have a water supply tap which you should only open when the machine is running and turn it off later. Household insurance will not cover leaks for unattended machines or not switching off the water supply after use.
Washing machine IN the bathroom... oh boy this just makes so much sense! I am jealous and when I build my own house this has just become a thing.
Yes that sounds practical and attractive having a washing machine in the bathroom on the first floor of a house, lovely.
Washing machines are in some bathroons out in Australia too, well where i lived it was, think it is a way of reusing the grey water from waste water showers and baths though
dual voltage of course for hotel bathrooms for visiting guests. My late 70's MK one had white rockers but otherwise the same. I think the approval includes a self-resetting overcurrent device and the 20VA is to prevent a made-up adapter lead for a fire or toaster etc whatever might take your fancy, which purposely trips the thermal cutout.
Hi John ! Thanks for your videos. Just got puzzled how the secondary wires of the transformer are connected to the copper strips for the voltage selection... Judging at the 8.49 looks like all 3 rightmost contactors do short the output plug, if the selector switch is not pressed (to 120V)?!? Would be nice with a small simple schematic for clerification thank you.
John could you cover kinetic switches should you get your hands on one?
I have one in my barthroom, I am yet to take it apart. I should get on to use sepratly for 120V stuff from the US.
Hi John, great video, I have a quick query. I have a bathroom mirror with built in shaver socket and isolating transformer. However, it is not switched and is permanently on and as it is in an en-suite the humming/buzzing noise of the transformer is amplified from within the mirror casing and is annoying. I am confident in re-wiring the isolating shaver transformer to the mirror's infra-red switch (currently used to turn on and off the LED lights and demister heat pad) BUT am not sure on whether this would be OK mainly due to "Back EMF" associated with transformers. Could this damage the IR switch? If Back EMF is a general issue, then how does the Shaver Socket you dismantled get around this as that had an on/off manual switch?
interesting that your shaver cords have the standard Molex conectors, which are used on computers and some other consumer electronics devices here in the U.S
had a funny image in mind of someone from here in the US , visiting frineds or relitives in the UK.
and had the voltage switch set to 220 instead of 115 and the shaver would start flying around the room
attacking them like a mad hornet.
The British shaver plug is the same size as the BS 372 5A 2 pin standard, which I think was Britain’s nicest plug from an aesthetic perspective
Hello John,
Great explanation.
On the installation side :
The always turned on shaver transformer seems to be warm.
Bearing this in mind here are a few questions :
1) What are the requirements for the wall boxes used for the installation of the sockets with the isolating transformers?
2) Could the box be plastic or should it be metal?
3) One of my shaver sockets should go onto the wall withe a damp-proof membrane and thermal insulation behind. - Any advice?
re above---best to use the older euro 2-pin which is slightly slimmer gauge pins than the later ones whch are a slightly tight fit!
will they ever get another plug like that because it is a good idea if the adaptor into other plugs and it could be truly universal whe there a device spins when you plug it in
Answer this question for me if you know?why in england dutch germany we use curve b and in france italy we use curve c,What is the use of the 1p + n circuit breaker,
and why monopolar circuit breakers are used in some countries and in others 1p + n?
Fitted many of them over the years, but always wandered why the on off switch was allowed as I assumed it was switching 240v.
I have a travel adapter and I’m wondering if I can use a clipper in the socket using the adapter ?
I wonder if they limit these to 20VA or if they offer larger ones. Also what sort of compliance testing the transformers are required to go through. The user may never know if their's is leaking excessively until it's too late. We require GFI here.
There are no larger ones, the maximum current is specified in the standard for these outlets.
any advice for someone starting a level 2 in electrical engineering
Had a job today where someone had an adapter that converted the socket from a 2 pin to a UK 3 pin. There was a lamp plugged in and sat on the side of the sink...
What 😳 my rented home has one directly above my sink and only inches from my bathtub …..the council just fitted it 😂 so if I accidentally blow up or get fried can I take my local council to court, please inform me as I’m worried now as I use it for my toothbrush and shaving.
Sorry JW but I'm going to have to pull you up on non-isolated shaver outlets not being for use in the UK. MK do the K700 non-isloated outlet for use outside a bathroom or shower room and connected into a lighting circuit. Protection is belt-and-braces with a thermal cut-out and fuse and it's carried by the usual UK trade outlets.
Yup,got one in my bedroom in place of standard 13A socket outlet and adaptor. Much neater.
thank you you're cool
Funny regs, allows electric showers but no sockets even if it has ip65 rating. We can install sockets if distance to shower is greater than 120cm and not directly above bath tub.
Electric showers are suitably IP rated for the environment.
Whilst there are external sockets with IP65 ratings, that's because they have waterproof covers. That's no the sort of thing you find inside a house, and opening the lid to plug in a cable is going to compromise that.
So you plug your hair dryer into the ip65 socket and then drop it in the bath? Think you're missing the point of the regulation.
in sweden normal circuits are allowed in "wet areas" but only if they are protected by a GFCI and only at least 120 cm "wire-measured" from the shower head. With wire-measured, it means you put kind of a rod down from the middle of the shower head, then you tie a 120cm long rope in the rod. All places that the end of the rope can touch, is prohibited to install sockets and switches and such. This means, that if you have a fixed wall, that is also watertight, you could install a socket on the wall above the sink, because the fixed wall would make the distance 120cm approved as the distance is the sortest distance "around" the wall, not through the wall.
Shaver sockets are nowadays prohibited to install now due to fire hazard if the rating is exceeded. Now you can just install a normal socket in the sink area but only if its GFCI protected. The socket itself does not need to be GFCI protected, it only needs to be on a GFCI circuit.
Before, sockets except shaver sockets were prohibited in the whole bathroom, but with the introducion of GFCI, they have become permitted.
For a bath, the same rules applies, but now the measure is 60 cm from the outer wall of the bathtub - and same "wire-rule" applies - if you can't touch the socket or whatever with a rope or wire that goes from any point along the rim of the bathtub and the other end of the 60cm long wire, then its permitted. If the bathtub is an integrated one, the distance is counted from any wall that is equal or lower than the bathtub's rim.
Meaning - if you have a full-height wall beside your bathtub, distance is counted from the inner edge of the wall (ergo - where the outermost surface of the bathtub touches) and then around the wall, meaning you can put a socket touching the wall on the other side provided that the bathtub is atleast 50cm wide and the wall is 10cm wide.
Here is the measurement chart for sweden electrical standards:
Shower: www.byggahus.se/sites/default/files/styles/inline_image/public/inline-images/BildC1_C3.jpg
Bathtub: www.byggahus.se/sites/default/files/styles/inline_image/public/inline-images/BildA1_A3.jpg
In Area0 (which is considered "under water") all electrical appliances, cables, conduits and sockets and whatever is totally prohibited. The only permitted thing is 12v AC / 30 v DC applicances provided they certified for IPX7 and they are meant for bath uses - for example pumps for spa bath and such.
In Area1 all mains powered appliances are prohibited except certain appliances that are not meant for human use/touch - for example junction boxes and light fixtures - provided they are IPX5 classified.
In Area2 all appliances except sockets are allowed. This also permits appliances that are connected by a socket outside of Area2.
That's almost identical to UK standards, except there is an additional item stating no sockets within 3m horizontally from the edge of zone 1.
@@jwflame So Area2/Zone2 extends 3meter from the edge of zone1? Or does the 3m rule also apply to circumstances where theres no Zone2? In sweden Zome2/Area2 extends only 60cm from the edge of Zone1/Area1. Zone2/Area2 is only used for circumstances where the water is contained, for example in a bathtub or a shower with a "low shower bathtub" in the bottom.
The difference between zone1 and zone2 is that in zone2 its permitted with all appliances, for example washing machines, light switches and other, just no sockets, while in zone1 all fixed 230v/110v appliances are prohibited.
Outside both zone1 and zone2, its "unclassified space" - even for a sink - meaning that sockets are allowed.
And 3meter is pretty long, does this rule count like the wire rule (take a rope/wire that is 3m long and everywhere it touch is prohibited) or is it an absolute length that goes through walls and everything, meaning that adjacent rooms are affected by the rule too?
Or does the rule stop at the rooms boundary regardless?
In sweden, before we had GFCI, the rule was "no sockets at all in bathrooms, except for isolated shaver sockets with a maximum voltage of 110."
But with GFCI the socket prohibition was dropped and as long as the bathroom is on a GFCI circuit, sockets are OK in the unclassified space.
@@sebastiannielsen Zone 2 is the same 60cm, it's only 3m for socket outlets. Switches and other items are allowed outside of zone 2. The 3m doesn't extend into other rooms, so it's allowed to have a socket outlet just outside of the bathroom door, even though that may be less than 3m distance.
@@jwflame aah now I understand. Then you have a difference in zone2 aswell, as zone2 in sweden allows "everything except sockets" - meaning light switches and fixed appliances like washing machines are permitted. In zone1 only appliances not meant to be touched may be installed (like for example lights, ventilator fans, approved radiators or junction boxes) and in zone0 only SELV of 12vAC/30vDC is permitted.
Interesting safety feature. But that means there is no way to have a hairdryer in UK bathrooms?
Hi great video
Is it possible to replace the isolating transformer, I am trying to fix a bathroom cabinet that has a shaver socket and demister led lights, where could I buy it and what is the voltage.rating that I require, the Om transformer has 2 red cables and 2 blue?
Kind regards
They can be replaced, but are normally only supplied to manufacturers of bathroom furniture, so may be difficult to find or or expensive.
Very interesting Video
I only know the other shaver socket with 2 round pins for 220V and 110v for the us plug.
Without any switches, but with a picture of a man who's shaving and 20VA. I think it was from Busch Jager and very old.
But your adapter is very dangerous, because it has no earth and for items till 10A. But I think you know what you do and no other persons will get it in their hands.
It's the same like a 32A CEE plug and a 16A outlet without any breaker.
For testing may be ok, but not for normal use
At some point with the emergence of low power voltage sockets (including from power of Ethernet sources) and the greater reliability of class A RCD/ADD sockets backed with a secondary RCD/ADD at the consumer unit could make more likely the use of sockets in bathroom. So the question is what would you have in the bathroom - believe it or not people will put smart devices in those rooms, music, heating devices, powered toilets and hand drying devices. What about fused plugged devices - in a zone away from bath is dryers? Washing machines? Is that still allowable?
Appliances are allowed, but need to be connected by a wired outlet, not a plug/socket.
Thanks John Yes that’s what I meant wired directly in without a plug, I have been out of the U.K. too many years now getting old and confused . Things are moving are so fast regulations are not keeping up especially on the low voltage stuff and PoE aspect where the potential for powering so many devices is become more likely including lighting. Really enjoyed the recent SPD podcast. It took me a long time to get use to sockets in bathroom when I moved to the USA don’t use them at all but I have to say the class A RCD devices are extremely reliable. It’s very rare to hear of electrocution in bathrooms but it does happen more often than not usually when older RCDs fail. Most Class A RCDs/GFCIs in US are now continuously self testing and flag deficiencies and have trip times of around 4-10ms and trip currents of 5-6 mA. It’s pretty robust - but still the mentality of not using a socket and plugs in bathrooms stays with me. I do like the idea of a double safety mechanism RCD sockets protecting sockets downstream and a RCD at the consumer unit (upstream) in my mind that would address the issue with tamper resistant fully IP rated sockets and properly sleeved pins on plugs. We will see if that takes off in the U.K. though I suspect the low voltage stuff is going to overtake this. Hence the growing need for SPDs type 1 and 2 with the greatest likelihood of transient overvoltages and spikes.
I my country we always had socket in the bathroom and people typically use them for washing machine, hair dryer (since in the bathroom you usually have a big mirror with a good light), hair straightener, electric razors, tooth brushes, space heaters (to have the bathroom more hot than other rooms), or other things like radios, I even saw a person that installed a Google Home mini in the bathroom (and thinking about it, it makes sense).
Of course there are zones where 220v sockets/switches/etc are not permitted, like in the proximity of the shower/bath, but is only 60cm.
I wonder how many people have tried plugging in a two-bar electric fire, for bath time?
if the plug will go in it will be done !!
-Only possible with an extension cable from outside the bathroom in the UK.- Unless it's one of those wall mounted room heaters from the 60s/70s.
I'm from the US, so I find the differences in the rules and standards for electrical installations pretty fascinating. I'm not an electrician, but to my knowledge, we don't have any rules against outlets in our bathrooms, apart perhaps from requiring them to be GFCI-protected outlets.
I always wonder how much of the differences are a result of differences in building and safety standards, or differences in safety policy and culture, and how much comes from the more practical fact that we run on 110 volts. I also wonder why we run on 110 volts rather than 230/240 in general. Hopefully somebody'll enlighten me on that.
One explanation is that lower voltage is somewhat safer, covered in this video about halfway through: ruclips.net/video/jMmUoZh3Hq4/видео.html
even though it's a bathroom plug could you get it installed anywhere in the house sorry for asking I hope you don't mind me asking Surfer asking
Yes, it can be installed anywhere. No real point though, if you want to charge a shaver or toothbrush somewhere else, just put a standard UK plug on it.
Hi John ! And where do Brits dry there hair after shower, use electric toothbrushes and curling iron etc.
I'm old school in that I dry my hair in front of either a bedroom mirror or hallway. I use a non-electric toothbrush and use muscle power. Being a bloke I have no need for curling irons, but I guess same applies for the hair dryer based upon female family members.
In the bedroom, or sometimes the kitchen
Oh, the kitchen, I assume ten feet from the kitchen sink, right?
We have extension cables.
@@dave8599 three metres.
I remember seeing a video a while back, from one of the popular electrical RUclips channels (can’t remember who), where an electrical socket was installed in a bathroom for a washing machine. The socket was not 3 meters away from the shower but the washing machine and socket were installed in a cupboard and made “inaccessible”. Does this sound right?
I have a memory of seeing something like that too.
Graham Langley ruclips.net/video/xveGg0C_Q88/видео.html
No offence, but it's only British that can't handle electrical sockets and normal light switches in bathrooms. Sadly, Britain has become a nanny state where common sense is nearly extinct.
@@kingspunkbubble That looks like the one.
Do these have to be fused with a 3amp fused spur. Another question i have i have a double socket with a live and Earth going into a junction box. One going to a fused spur for a heater. And another fused spur for a 1kw bathroom heater. And from the junction box directly to a shaver socket should i have the shaver socket fused on a separate fused spur too. Or is this overloading. There are 2 double sockets in each three rooms. Socket trip switch rated at 20amp.
Thanks
They can be, but are usually wired direct to a 6A lighting circuit. The transformer is current limiting by design, and should have a thermal fuse inside which will disconnect the supply if it overheats.
The rest isn't a problem provided the cable is rated to at least 20A, which would be 2.5mm² or larger.
@@jwflame thank you
@John Ward i have a question can you bring two lights off one fused spur. I have wired up a single outside socket off its own trip switch and then going into a digital din rail timer. Then from the single socket i ran a 2.5mm² cable into my shed into a junction box. One cable out for a light with switch and one for a double socket. Then i ran another cable for a light for my second shed with a switch. Do i need anything else to protect it.
Thanks
in times of rcds this seems pretty antiquated. and where do i plug my hairdryer
They are leftovers from a long time ago and have little to no purpose today.
Most other countries just have normal outlets in the bathroom.
i have one in the bathroom, always wonder if some how i can plug a usb plug into for LED light strip and even a charger port for bluetooth speaker hummmmm.... lol
Yes... get a USB charger with a europlug or US/NEMA plug...
Are 110v transformer on construction sites isolating transformers too?
No, earth is connected to the centre of the output winding, each wire is 55 volts to earth, 110 volts between them.
So 20VA is equivalent to 20watt?
Bizarre, Here in North America, the electrical code mandates a GFCI socket within 3 feet of a sink. Kitchen worktops have to have a GFCI socket every three feet. Believe me, this is *very* useful (and perfectly safe).
Ran Dome So? Every circuit in a U.K. home has RCD protection, not just the ones that happen to be near a sink. We just still don't think it's necessary to have power in a bathroom. After all, who wants to stand in a steamy bathroom trying to blow dry their hair, when they could sit comfortably in a bedroom at a proper dressing table and do it in comfort.
@@spencerwilton5831 If you have steamy bathrooms then you have a problem with your extractors. Likewise who wants to stand in a bathroom with a shaver/clipper then? Having sockets in bathrooms is very useful for other appliances as well not just hair dryers....and you're not resorting to daisy chaining extension cords, which another reason why we have them in bathrooms GFCI protected and now AFCI protected as well. No problem.
The last shaver and the last toothbrush I bought were both USB charged , so are these things likely to go out of fashion soon?
So you could take then to work and charge them at your office desk, shrewd.
@@tinytonymaloney7832 my point was, why even bother with having 230v in the bathroom isolated or not, if everything is soon going to charge on 5v DC over USB.
@@patdbean still a good idea, use electric from work, it's free
UK has really odd requirements compared to the US. Here its just GFCI outlets when you're within a certain number of feet of a "wet" location or if in a kitchen or bathroom.
Seriously. Sometimes JW's videos make me glad I don't have to deal with UK electrical
@@IonRoux Lights have to be on an entirely separate circuit. Crazy.
@@sneezyferret6482 not to mention all lights being on ONE circuit. To me that's just crazy
@@IonRoux Typically lights downstairs will be on one circuit and another circuit for upstairs. I mean. it's handy if you want to do work on the sockets and still have lighting, or vice versa....but old regs, they need an update to allow it if you want to have it either way. 230v is half the amperage of north america, and lights draw very little current as it is, especially the energy efficient bulbs we have now.
Ran Dome Separate circuits for lighting make much more sense! How many times has a blowing bulb caused a breaker to pop? What if that's the same circuit supplying say your fridge and freezer, and goes unnoticed? What if a bulb goes and you also loose power to plug in lamps because they are supplied from the same circuit- you're stumbling around in the dark.
Possibly ill advised. But I wonder of such a socket could be used to charge a smartphone or similar device
I've done it without any problems, my charger draws 250mA so no chance of overloading the socket however a charging phone dropped into water can be dangerous.
@@lmarkey1748 yeah, I remember hearing about a girl who was shocked and killed from dropping a phone in a bath. . Sadness
Maybe make some videos about these topics
My customer brought a shaver light. He thought it was faulty but no the socket outlet only works when the light is turned on.
Had same thing 😄😄
JW can you recommend to me a step up step down converter I've got a Japanese GameCube in the UK and I don't know how to use it and I've got Autism and I really want to be able to play on it and I thought I'd ask you because you're one of the coolest guys I know on RUclips in the uk
Japan uses 100V, so you will need something to convert from 230V to 100V, such as this: airlinktransformers.com/product/use-japanese-appliances-in-the-uk-uk-ja0050
however Japan also uses a different TV standard so it may not work properly or at all with a UK TV, and many consoles will only work with games from the same country that the console was sold in.
thank you you're cool
Why are your hands injured?
Why wouldn’t it be possible to get a shock through these sockets? There is still a voltage differential between de phase and the floor you are standing on, right?
The output winding of the transformer has no connection to anything else. The only way to get a shock is to contact both of the wires at the same time.
No shock possible from one of them as the winding is not connected to earth / the floor in any way.
@@jwflame Thanks a lot for your reply, I think I understand how it works now. But on the other hand: the hot wire of a normal socket is neither connected to anything else, and when you touch it, it will connect to ground through your body, right?
@@Simon-dm8zvAll supplies to buildings are referenced to ground at the transformer, so there is a path back to that transformer through ground. Covered in more detail here: ruclips.net/video/sfzy5IQMzyc/видео.html
Shaver sockets are one of these really odd quirks of UK installations from an outsider's perspective. Your standard sockets / plugs I find superior than the ones where I come from, which have "random" polarity. Another oddity is switches for each outlet - quite uncommon in most parts of the world and a mild annoyance with any appliance that's supposed to be remote controlled or "always on". But overall, you have very sophisticated installations and the highest safety standards IMO. Not allowing normal outlets in the bathroom would annoy me though. Where do people plug their blow dryers?
Power outlets have to social distance themselvses from shower and sinks!
Except when a black hair dryer wants a riot and attacks your white toothbrush and smashes up the sink. ;-)
Regs apart, this is a typical example of good old solid reliable British design and engineering that we used to endure in the 60s and 70s.
Nowadays its all foreign made crap imported and a union jack sticker bunged on it when it gets into port. I wonder if the chirpy chirpy cheap cheap Chinese MK stuff has a version of shaver socket.
Checked - yes there is a MK Essentials shaver outlet.
@@jwflame your up late JW.
Bigclivedotcom thinks you are wonderful
The standard actually now specifies 200 mA maximum
rather than 20VA.
Does fit a Euro-Plug in this outlet?
Europlug is wider but it can be forced, also bearing in mind the amp rating
Yes, the black plug in the video is a Europlug.
Not by design... but it's just a matter of shoving hard enough.
You can't do the reverse though. UK shavers don't fit in euro outlets.
6:12 John mentioned that.
Why would one need a socket for electric shaver in a bathroom. It does not need water. In Finland sockets in bathroom are only for washing machines. Use for shaver was not allowed. Now things have relaxed because of RCDs.
Why wouldn't the code be changed with RCD's (GFCI's)? There isn't any reason for this now. I am glad in the USA we can load bathrooms up with outlets. We have all sorts of things plugged in larger master baths here in the USA. Good video John, keep them up.
The UK RCDs are rated for a much higher current before tripping and at twice the voltage of the US equivalent GFCI (outlet or breaker). The us version must trip at 5mA or less at 120v. The UK RCD specification is 30mA, I believe, which puts the amount of energy required to trip the UK version at 12 times that if the US counterpart. Additionally, 240v has a higher chance of arcing than 120v, which is part of the reason behind having switches on individual outlets in the UK. There are trade-offs between 240v and 120v systems, neither one is necessarily better in every circumstance.
@@thomasbonse there is no regulatory requirement for switches on UK outlets. They can be bought without them. It's more a matter of convenience than for safety.
RCDs can fail, older AC types can become incapacitated by DC waveforms, UK bathrooms are often smaller, pipework in UK houses is directly bonded to ground, you expose yourself to one hell of a risk coming into contact with 240V while in a bath.
UK bathrooms are historically much smaller and it's not uncommon to see bathroom walls in older uninsulated homes streaming with condensation when the shower is running.
@@uK8cvPAq I've lived in 14 different homes (houses and apartments) that I can remember clearly; in addition to having stayed in many more hotels and even relatives' homes when traveling. Most had some sort of condensation issue when using the shower. This was true, even when the bathrooms had a working powered vent. While I can't speak to the 70's themselves, I've lived in places built in or before that timeframe. From a technology available in the 70's standpoint, the UK did a better job with electrical safety regulations in many key areas. However, some areas are much more similar to the old knob and tube installations from a century ago. Or the allowance for plastic consumer units (fuse panel or breaker panel in the US) was really a step backwards in terms of safety. Ring finals are another case of substituting reduced cost for safety. At the time they were introduced, this was a way to stretch the limited supply of copper after WW2. At this point, my personal opinion is that existing installations of these ring finals should be grandfathered and disallow expansion or new installations of this particular configuration.
We have GFCI receptacles in our bathrooms in the US. I dont know of anyone dying from electric shock in a bathroom. Sounds like over regulation to me . They should atlest allow you to add a larger say 1KVA isolation transformer for bathroom use remotely .
Bear in mind you have half the voltage we do... and that this standard was brought in long before RCD/GFCI's were a thing. Nowadays the whole house is protected by an RCD, however an RCD/GFCI does NOT protect you in all situations
Peter Mulholland true but we all know it’s the current that matters anything between 30-50mA will do the trick for electrocution risk. In the USA now we have bathrooms protected from arc faults, surge protections and ground faults indeed we double up upstream and downstream with GFCI/AFCI/SPDs at sockets and upstream in the consumer unit/Panels we have GFCI/AFCI and SPDs. Moreover our Class A devices trip faster 5-10mS and at much lower current 5-7mA.
Indeed the newer GFCIs are self testing continuously and will alert you to them not working. The risk has massively reduced with the addition of IP rated and tamper resistant sockets/receptacles. I expect the future 19th edition will catch-up with latest safety technology. In modern homes with growing mix of AC and DC equipment the importance of power quality not just safety is becoming more of an issue.
Wow a 1KVA isolation transformer for this in the bathroom - what exactly are you planning to us it for ????
@@Mike_5 Hair dryer maybe
@@apollorobb The UK supply voltage is a lot higher than the USA
as I say to none technical people if u can shove a plug into a socket anyway u can , it will be done by the general public.
Ridiculous, so you have to dry your hair somewhere else in the apartment?
Yes, the bedroom will have less humidity than a bathroom with a recently used shower anyway
Well that hair dryer screaming will sure awaken your spouse.,
You can shave your head instead.
@@mixerfistit5522 Thats for sure but isn't it overkill? Here we have IP44 outlets in bathrooms and ppl are not dying because of electric shocks from humid air and hair dryer :D
@@sumilidero I didn't mean you'd get shocked in humid air, I meant it would probably take longer and be less comfortable using one. I don't use one so not the best person to ask tbh.
Our regs are strict but you have to remember there are a lot of pretty stupid and reckless people out there. Just browse twitter for 5 minutes.
JW I would be VERY suppressed if the transformer didn't have a thermal auto reset built in to prevent heavy overloads , being British otherwise its pathetic in design regardless of age
7:04 That lead is horrible. Is it done self made? The plug rated for 2.5 A and the other end 10 or 16 A. Also it defects grounding.
Slight accuracy point, you're allowed sockets in a UK bathroom - the only thing is the distances are so great that most people's bathrooms are too small for it to be practical...
He said that
this is probably unique to the UK. where they think they are different to the rest of the world
Burn the house down 🤣
Presumably you're talking about what in the US is called a 3/4 or full bathroom, as opposed to a half bath, which is a lavatory and a water closet.
It's interesting to see how some fundamental decisions wind up causing different requirements for safety standards. One or two different dominos at the beginning (split-phase vs single phase, 32A ring circuits vs 15A branch circuits) result in totally different end results.