I would prefer switching to a chain, if I was out on the road or stopped often at hang outs. But only for vandalism reasons. In my mind, anytime one of my bikes are parked, I always envision some other harley owner that knows about these belts taking a knife and cutting my belt off. These belts are great, but when you consider if one is severed you have to remove the outer primary and engine compensator and sprocket and clutch hub assembly and then remove your inner primary and your starter and your rear wheel to change that drive belt and knowing all of this major, but then to now some jealous ahole can whop that belt in two with wire cutters or just some knife. There are people that do these things. I even worry about this when my bikes are parked in my driveway in front of my house that some jealous creep will do this. I retired from Hydril co subsea equipment and our machinist as well as our engineers had constant problems with jealous labor helpers and temporaries fucking with the cars of the high salaried employees with nice cars during all the years i was there from 74 till 2004 in the huge parking lot
@@GixxerFoo Anything I can imagine someone doing, usually I find out people have actually done them. There are people that are jealous of harley owners, because even a used one takes serious money over a grand for a basket case. If you drive a cadillac or ride a harley there are sets of angry people
Lol, this brings back great memories of when Harley went with the drive belt and the arguments that ensued. If you want custom gearing, lower gearing for an around town or taller for the highway you can't beat a chain and sprockets. The same goes for big power bikes too. Harley invested a lot of R&D in the belt system and it's on a lot of bikes. I'm lucky if I get 15K miles on a chain and set of sprockets so for 4 times the life minimum the belt can be cheaper in the long run.
Oh definetely the belt is gonna be cheaper in the long run. This is my first experience with owning a belt drive bike. It's way less maintenance and all l do is just check it over and keep it clean. No worries about lube and constant adjustment.
I ride a Sportster which means replacing a belt is easy. It's fast enough for me, so power is not an issue. No lubing required and no mess from oil flinging off. No chain for me. Been there, done that.
I converted my ‘01 to chain drive many years ago because I like the old school look. Every bike I’ve ever owned was chain driven and to me the belt drive just looked kind of odd. I don’t care if the chain is noisy, dirty, or creates vibration. Solid mount Sportsters vibrate a little anyway. But they are lighter, skinnier and more nimble than the newer bikes so a few vibes are no big deal.
I'm ahead of you here. I changed my '93 Sporty from belt to chain several years ago. The belt was fine. No problem. However, I used to flat-track and learned the importance of having the right gearing. Bought a '92 front sprocket and an aftermarket rear in the sizes I figured I needed. . I lowered the overall gearing somewhat which gave me quicker acceleration and top end. Harley over gears the Sportster so you can't redline the engine in top gear. I can now cruise my 883 at 80mph and can still accelerate without down shifting. It drinks more gas and vibrates more since I'm pulling more revs on the highway but not all that bad. One thing to remember if you want to try converting to a chain. Absolutely use a GOOD (expensive) O-ring chain! Break it in and it'll be almost as quite and smooth as a belt.
That's awesome! I used to flat track myself too, l had whole tree full of sprockets front and rear with chains of different lengths. Gearing is very important and it's a lot cheaper and easier to get where you want with a chain conversion. Not too many options with belts, and it's expensive.
I did a chain conversion on my '95 fatboy.. I actually converted to an open belt primary and a chain final drive ... the belt primary was form over function... I just love an open primary with its look and sound. Changing out my final belt to chain was more for tuning. There is a better selection of drive and wheel sprockets to better tune my final drive ratio ...
I run a 07 lowrider with 120r 138hp/132tq. . i have 60,000 miles on the belt with no problems. I ride this bike across town and across country. and compete in several drag racing events each year. i experimented extensively in the 80's and 90's using beltdrives in other race applications and found the belt drives were more efficient. mostly due to weight reduction. i have a 2000 roadglide that has over 100,000 mile on it with a lot of those miles riding two up and pulling a trailer. It makes a little over 110HP and still has the original belt and pullies with no problems. I also have a stump grinder that runs the same type belt it is 85hp/ 315tq. it sees a lot of heavy full throttle use and the belt and pullies usually last 2500-3000 hrs . they are subjected to a lot of dust and dirt..
Being old enough to have a Sportster before there were belt drive on any motorcycles, I say never again to chains. Having to lube them constantly and adjust them every few hundred miles, ACH! Not to mention the vibration that chains make at high speeds. Thank God for belt-drive.
Amen to that! I love the belt drive myself and how much cleaner it is. Can't beat the maintenance and not having to clean chain lube off the rear wheel constantly.
I've seen some big horse power motors with the one inch drive belts on them. I was raised with chain drive but I'm old now and I absolutely love the belt. LoL As a matter of fact just two weeks ago I changed my belt (steel/poly) and front drive sprocket (Lighter hardened alloy sprocket)
Converted mine 6 years ago on my 02 883 using a low brow customs conversion kit, and a 530 chain from diamond. Have put over 15 thousand miles on it. If you use a good quality chain and lubes it often. It won't stretch that often. I run it with a I inch freeplay. And have had to adjust it only 2 in 6 years.
That's awesome! You said the key words, use a good quality chain and lube it often! I myself wouldn't trust the Amazon special when it comes to a chain and sprockets.
I converted my 07 glide to chain 4 years ago , best thing I ever did , no more busted belts in middle of nowhere , I'm using a rk pro chain , very little maintenance .
@@GixxerFoo Chains also have no tension , no wear on out transmission bearings , and if you were in an emergency a #50 machine chain is same as a 530 , will get you home .
@@davidmcfaull3162 Broke 3 on my electra glide , 2 one a ultra and 2 on a dyna . Drive sprockets are garbage they wear out and stretch the belt , sometimes I get rocks in them .
As much as I respect your knowledge, I have to disagree with your assessment on power loss regarding the belt. 15% is the number when speaking about a shaft drive. The belt has a loss of 1% more than the chain.
Switched to chain drive on my 03 in 05. What I've learned is never by a cheap chain because it will wear faster and eat sprockets steel or aluminum. Usually I get two chains to one set of sprockets. Recently I added a chain tensioner and so far so good. Again always run a high quality chain! Keep it clean and lubed ant it will surprise you how long it will last.
I have 330 thousand miles on my 99 Sportster 883 in that time I replace the belt three times when you consider what a chain and a set of sprockets cost every 10 to 20 thousand miles you almost double the price of the bike with all the maintenance you have to do and the part you have to replace as well as all the cleaning if a belt breaks it doesn't knock a hole through your crankcase like a chain does I only put up with a chain on my vintage bike belt drive for a Harley and shaft drive for everything else and the more horsepower you make the more expensive your chain and your sprockets will be
I got the Zippers chain conversion kit With upgraded chain and with a 24-54 Sprocket on a 2014 Harley Street Guide. @3,000Rpm I can do a Power Whillie No clutch All Gas. The chain conversion kit makes a Very BIG difference on low end Torque and coming off the line! I paid $2,100 with installation
I started on dirt bikes and sTeel frame zx-10 I like the snappy response of a chain especially with the twin low band torque it’s bad ass. My grandmas bike will leave the belt on so she doesn’t throw out her hipster though.
I did the Throttle Addiction kit on a 2000 XL 1200, I think it ran me $185. The previous owner had incorrectly mounted the front belt pulley which had damaged the splined shaft coming out of the transmission. There was still enough bite on the shaft to mate up with the sprocket and nut. The sprocket only needed about half the space on the shaft, it worked out nicely. The kit came with a generic #50 roller chain, but it was black/gold, though a Diamond Chain would have been better I was happy for the price. I sold it, made a little money and the owner is happy 2 years later.
I have never replaced the pulleys on my Sportster with 330,000 my never ever all this BS about changing the gearing well if your eraser doll that has a happy horseshit go for it
If you have a big twin figure in the cost of tearing down your clutch and primary to replace a new sprocket every 20,000 miles I can't imagine belt drive pulleys ever wearing out my buddy who has a chain drive Evo Sportster is constantly replacing chain and sprockets because Sporty's have no compensators and the Driveline therefore they wear the death out of chain drive
@@frankmarkovcijr5459 that’s interesting.It’s up to your personal preference. A lot of trick riders seem to prefer a chain final drive. But I’ve also seen belt primary and final drives fail on the road. I’ve never seen a chain final drive fail. Of course they wear out but that may also be due to poor maintenance. The major attraction of a belt drive is that they run a lot more clean and require less maintenance. Indeed, Sportsters do have an internal adjuster for the primary chain, and I’ve seen those fail so I carry an extra. On my current Buell motor in a Sportster frame project I’m putting it back to a belt final drive. Conversely on a Shovelhead chopper I’m going to run a 3” belt primary and chain final drive with a 48T rear sprocket to bring down the RPMs of the ratchet top for highway cruising. It’s really up to your preference and riding style. Stay safe out there.
Belts for normal use is damm near maint free .make sure tension it correct when you change tire and of course line it up on the pulley. A chain can break and leave you stranded or get tangled in the sprocket and lock tear tire up or bust transmission case
Getting a belt lined up and tensioned correctly is the key, I've seen a chain break on the interstate and do some serious damage on a sport bike. Guy was lucky it didn't lock the rear wheel up.
I got rid of my belt for chain drive and it was the best conversion I've done. Shout out to "TC bros."!!! Now I'm gonna ditch EFI for Carb. on my '13 sporty. I did a chop job with 8" over forks so now I barely get any good mileage, on a good day about 70 miles.
This is a great video man! Super informative. Was literally thinking about this a few days ago, see a lot of Dyna's with them and was considering it for my sporty
I'm undecided right now between belt and chain man! The belt is going to run me $150 right now! The chain drive does give a classic clean look to the bike though!
Hey bro. I have watched many of your videos and love them. On this one I think you reversed some numbers. A chain may last 60,000 but a belt will not. I change my drive belt with my back tire about every 10 or 12 thousand. They get brittle and if you twist or pinch them while changing a tire they snap. Learned this the hard way.
Thank you, I appreciate it! It really depends on what bike it's on and how you ride, also how well it's taken care of. I've had a rock get picked up by a belt and destroy it with less than 10k lol.
An advantage not mentioned for the belt drive is far less driveline lash since the belt is run tighter than a chain, this is BIG plus especially when you are on and off the throttle a lot like on a twisty road
Switched to the TC bro’s chain drive. The feeling of response is night and day. You should mention that between 99 and 00 they changed the cast wheel and that doesn’t allow interchanging.
So you're getting a much more positive feel of power the ground? I always feel like you can just kinda tell a little soft spot with belt as far as power to the ground. I wasn't aware they changed the cast wheel those years, that's interesting.
GixxerFoo the wheels all come down to axel spacers and rear brake caliper mounting. I still have a belt on my 03 1200. I can feel the belt stretch every time I gun it off of a dead stop or try to keep the front wheel up. My 01 883 with chain can keep the front up all day.
@@ROUGHNECKROGERS Are you saying that Sportster models from 1999 to 2000 can't be converted to a chain drive? All Sportsters before 1999 and after 2000 can use chain conversion kits. Am I understanding correctly?
I never knew what the little holes were for on the swingarm on my sportster...till I watched a lowbrow video and he showed it was for the wheel alignment tool or coat hanger tool. Lol good tip I thought.
@@GixxerFoo yep he used a coat hanger and a zip tie on it to keep the measurements. I knew those holes were for something just didn't know what till I watched their chain conversion video on Saturday sportster
My OEM 2019 Roadster/Sportster is very quiet. I can hear the clattering of internal parts when I am moving. So quiet it is in the range of a Honda Nighthawk in decibels.
Yeah those stock mufflers really let you hear the mechanics of the motor, they don't have any silent roller chains and everything is gear driven in the engine.
I have done a few conversions on friends bikes and on 2 of my own and have no regrets at all. A good o-ring chain is self sufficient when it comes to lube and as far as the noise level of a chain over a belt, really? We are talking Harleys here, NOT know for their silent running powertrains. What a chain does give over a belt is the ability to be changed without dismantling the entire ass end of the bike (big twin only), they take abuse much better, and the biggest advantage for me is the ability to change final gearing easily. In my experience Harleys are geared to the moon, especially an evo Softail. Solid mounting means rpm's shake the shit out of you. The downside is zero throttle response on the highway, especially after some engine mods. We put an Andrews EV3 cam in my friends 98 Softail Custom which killed it on the highway, geared way too high stock. Converted to chain dropping the gearing completely changed the bike in a good way. An added benefit is the ability to run a wider rear tire, the stock width looks like a bicycle tire on the back. A bagger yes, run a belt. For that application I believe it's a better choice than a chain. If you like to hammer the throttle and dig the holeshot fun stuff get a chain. My former 98 Sportster and my current FXR both are chain driven, and of course my 74 ironhead as well.
😆😂 the stock rear tires do look like a bicycle, l thought myself for years. I am glad they finally started putting wider tires on in the later years. Yeah with a Harley you ain't gonna notice a chain's noise. Hell you can't hear anything but the exhaust on these bikes.
I converted back to belt after the previous owner put a chain on my 89 electra glide. Less than a week later hopped on the bike to go grab some breakfast and didn't even get out of the driveway. A green walnut somehow found it's way between the belt and rear pulley. SNAP went the belt.
My belt broke on my Buell M2 Cyclone with 18000 miles and with the cost of the belt from St. Paul and the cost I paid to have it installed 400 dollars. Currently putting all of the Buell stuff in a sporty frame with a chain conversation
I've known at least 2 guys who had their bikes vandalized. In both cases, they went out to a parking lot to find their final drive belts laying on the ground or draped across the bike's seat. It's a sign of the times. We inhabit a world that's inhabited by jealous and vicious bug-wits who do not have any morals (or class). Chains and sprockets require more maintenance, but they DO have some advantages over a belt when it comes to repair (especially on the road). Modern bike chains have "O" ring technology which makes them last longer than chains in days of old. Chain/sprockets also lend a nostalgic look to bobbers and choppers. Ride safe.
Most belt to chain conversions are usually because the owner wants a wider tire. Oddly enough , they usually don't want to spend the bucks for the proper wider rim and try a 150/160 wide tire on a stock 3in wide rim. And Sportsters do not have any sort of driveline 'cushion' and what on/off throttle lash there is will cause uneven stretching (tightspots) in the chain, difficult adjustment and uneven sprocket wear. BTW, Tsubaki and Regina O-ring chains are the best!
If you have whitewalls leave the belt on bc the grease from the chain will sling all over the white and leave you scrubbing constantly and those tires are hard to keep clean as it is
Pro Chain - Oversized Wide Tires Anti Chain - Chain Stretch Pro Belt - Forever/Light Weight Anti Belt - Always worrying when forever runs out on the Kevlar Belts because they just go and go and go.
It's the Gixx-ster! How's it going? My family and I are doing alright. I'm am not enjoying this whole social distancing thing at all, I'm just saying that I've never been a fan of change...especially such a sudden and terrifying once. (I'm not saying that I don't think it's something that people need to be doing. IT IS one of the most important things that we all can take part in and fight this pandemic "together".) It's just going to take me a while to adjust and adapt to this way of living we are all having to do. I have been avoiding anything Coronavirus (Covid-19) on social media and RUclips. Having this increased viewing time on our hands (I should probably use my hand sanitizer for that...lol) I was finding it much too easy to get carried away with the amount of negative and anxiety-inducing videos about the pandemic. Hope you and your loved ones are being smart and safe.
The main irritant with belt drive is that when they snap they snap with absolutely no warning. The belt will look perfectly fine. No chips, no cracks, nothing. What fails is the steel re enforcement wires within it. IMHO these cables are much too thin. Durring WWll the US Army used this technology on the M-3 half track. The tracks are one piece rubber moldings with two half inch cables running through them. The vehicles still running today still run with the original tracks manufactured in 1942. Surely H-D can do better than the belts they currently use.
Great video. Not sure about the sporty, but the dyna has small holes poked into the swingarm as points of reference for tire alignment. Btw chain drive is way cooler.
@@GixxerFoo i hear that, old school ways are still the best. Btw on another note, im sure people would love to know why the sporster doesn't come with a 6 speed or the possibility of one.
@@dynaordie8083 Baker makes one for them. But after 04 you got to split the case. Screw that ! One reason I really love my 2k Sporty got a rigid mounted engine , the trap door for the transmission just alot easier. The older Sporty is lighter then the rubber mounted ones , so I have been told. But I love it.
I have an SV650 and haven't had any issues with it's chain, or more precisely after I bought a good quality chain I haven't had any issues and don't hear it over my pipes. I certainly wouldn't hear it over my Harley's pipes. Honestly not sure if I'd switch as I have a Fatboy and I'm not generally abusing it as hard as I do my SV
The SV is a seriously fun bike! I had a 1989 Honda NT 650, rigid aluminium frame twin, way ahead of it's time. I'd take an SV650 today over my old GSX-R 1000 just for the fun factor.
Hey I know it's a year later. But check out Block Heads video on the 1275 Hammer 110 hp build he did. Check out the belt on it. Not sure it will last. Idk
I saw that video, that's one hell of a build! The belt should do pretty well just riding it and getting on it every now and then. Lol if you ride the crap out of it it's sure to shear some teeth off though.
My understanding the only reason you would convert to chain is b/c the motor has a high stage kit with too much power for a belt risking a popped belt.
@@GixxerFoo A properly tensioned & aligned belt should never POP as they will stretch way less then a chain will. HD uses (or did use) Carbon Fibre (Poly Chain Carbon Belt) or Kevlar in their belts. This means next to no stretch and they are way stronger than chain. Belts might be more expensive than chain, but they will outlast a chain and also they produce way less wear on the pulleys than a chain will.
@@GixxerFoo yes 🙌🏽,I'm debating if I should change my exhaust, I already have a custom made RCX exhaust. But I like the look and sound of the Two Brothers comp s exhaust what do you think I should do?
That's a really exhaust system, l loved them on my sport bikes and l was excited when they started making Harley products. Hammer tested it with their kits and it made really good power.
I think the chain conversion is attractive to people that NEED to change the belt for whatever reason, but don't want to disassemble the ENTIRE motorcycle to do so. Converting to a chain adds performance not only from the delivering power more efficiently but also a regular sprocket is lighter than the big heavy pulley reducing rotational mass and unsprung weight. I would likely leave the belt alone until either I had a belt failure, engine modifications, or If I was already doing clutch maintenance.
The cost of Harley pulleys and Belt is twice the price here in Australia I had them on my 1983 FLHS and then on my 1985 Evo which I still ride I went Chain back in 1987 on the Shovel and in the late 80s on the Evo , I have done 280,000 Ks with my Evo and it's still my main ride , I do have a 2013 Twin Cam 103 with 30,000Ks but it's for Sale , The point is I can change a Chain in the gutter but I can't do that with a Belt ( O and I run points )
I bought the Sprocket kit from TC Bros, steel sprockets and doesn't come with the chain, it's on the shelf for when my belt grenades. More maintenance yes, but if you run on gravel roads chain is much friendlier when you pick up the occasional rock.
@@GixxerFoo I have a buddy with a Road King who lives about 3/4 of a mile off the pavement, he blew 3 belts in less than a month a few springs ago, I found him a chain conversion at Zippers and he hasn't regretted it for a second, never heard of that happening to anyone else, so I guess he was in a low karma season or something? Much harder to change a belt on a Road King then a Sporty though.
Damn that's rough and belt's are not cheap! I'd definitely do the chain conversion if l had to ride a stretch of dirt road too. Yeah big twins are not fun to change a belt on, it's quite involved.
Belts last a stupid long time and are super low maintenance, I'd keep the belt unless you just want a chain for some reason. If you're not drag racing or just stupid hard on the bike the belt is the way to go.
Whew l that would require some experimentation to get it where you like it. Gearing for a long ride and for wheelies are way far apart. I hope you mean one setup for playing and one for highway runs?
I think that's a good compromise, or find you a counter size you like and leave that on there. Get a second rear wheel and swap out. That's what a lot of guys do depending on where they are riding.
@@GixxerFoo No, only a Story i heard. But i could beleive it did happen when they came out with the Evo and NO kicker. The REAL bikers woundn't of had that.
I installed a chain conversion kit i have to tighten my chain every 200 miles and watch the aluminum sprocket erode away with each trip. Now im looking for steel sprocket and beefy 530 o-ring chain, probably going to go with drag specialties.
I've never had good luck with aluminum sprockets for longevity either, I used them for weight savings on my race bikes. But on the street I went with steel since I did the same thing too watching my sprockets get eatin away.
PBI makes the best sprockets period if you have alloy sprocket check there website cause they make it in steel also ! Cheap sprockets will result in tight & loose spots & will ware the chain & sprocket prematurely ! As an old drag racer got lots of time with 530 doing chain & sprockets !
I love the belt, it's light and it's very low maintenance! I don't do any kind of riding that would require a chain luckily, chains can be a real mess.
I have 06 street bob and I am not looking forward to changing the belt. I'm literally considering switching to chain drive to avoid this in the future😂
service writer at my dealership says the rear belt on his 22' ultra limited can withstand 150 hp and 600 lbs worth of people for 100k plus mileage. 150 hp for 1500 lbs of loaded bike. i feel bad for the clutches and or the transmission. but i believe in his thought...the belt will last 100k, maybe. meanwhile im riding a twin cam fxr with a chain at 750 lbs totat w rider.
I'm "Choppering" My 2005 883XL and I want a little wider tire. I'm going to have to convert to a chain to make room for a wider tire. Otherwise, I really like the belt setup. 45 years behind bars and belts are sooooo much less work or trouble.
@GixxerFoo you are so correct on that. I wanted just a bit more umph on the lower end. Didn't see no need to go into the engine when I could play with the gearing to get it. Also, by streching out the swing arm, I have the same wheelbase as a street bob
I've been thru 2 front pulleys on my s2thunderbolt has a pro lgnition and supertrapp exhaust that's in 8000 miles .the splines strip on them any ideas on if the chain splines are stronger?
BIGGEST reason for chain conversion on a sportster is regearing. They come a little short on the highway gear. Engine revved out just to keep up. Second would be going from 883 to 1200 jugs. Regear for the extra power. The guys that say nostalgia are full of it. Old harleys started out with a leather belt. However, on the big bikes, i.e. dyna, streetglide ect. They are not fun to put a new belt on. Lots of disassembly. Not so with a chain. Unless you need a new front sprocket.
Chains are great for high horsepower builds, classic look and they are a lot less prone to damage. It doesn't haven't often but you can pick up a rock and shred a belt.
When Belts first came out? The early 20th century motorcycle belts were made of leather. I suppose it could be stitched back together at the local leather goods shop. Modern Kevlar Blend Belts... have you ever met someone that told you they broke thiers? Maybe debris lodged in the teeth or sprocket gears by kicking it on dirt roads? Buell's Ulysses came with a belt driven system and it was an Offroad bike.
When Kawasaki first introduced a belt in the 1980's they actually did a demonstration by hanging the bike by a drive belt to demonstrate it's strength. They are really tough, but like anything if they sustain any mechanical damage they will break.
i have an anomoly.... built a custom belt drive on a 97 marauder.i can change the belt without removing the swing arm .can do it on a kickstand and a floor jack( not a bottle jack) but been fortunate the belt won't break. it was worth the work.
The Sportster has holes Ii n the swing arm to measure the rear wheel from . There mid way on the swing arm if you all want I can get a picture of them and just use a old metal coat hanger . It works.
V Belt Supply. i bought a custom size belt for my Marauder . 170$ rated for 400 hp electric motor so more than adequate . used old S 40 pulleys .belt measurez 40 mm wide 14 mm pitch 2002 mm long. round tooth. you can see it if you go to my channel in my thumbnail.
Buell was the coolest bike ever with a hot Harley motor in a space age chassis. We will never see a factory mashup like that again with an old school air cooled engine in a razor sharp chassis.
Saw my belt lying on the road in the mirror of my XL 1200, (40,000 mi) just installed chain, won't happen again. make sure you get the year right. Not hard.
I was skeptical about the belt... today I think back to the noisy, dry slapping chain that requires lube that makes a mess out of your ride. If I wanted another chain I'd buy a Suzuki....🤣👍🏻
There was a lot of of people wondering about belts back in the day but they are really a lot stronger than most would think! Low maintenance and reinforced with kevlar doesn't leave you much to worry about.
Yes, I have had that in the past. Checked alignment and really couldn't find anything wrong. I put some miles on it and eventually it stopped, I believe it was the finish on the pulley where the belt ran. I went to using a black or chrome cover going forward so I didn't have to deal with it again.
@@GixxerFoo i had a choice Buy a sportster for 3-6k and have less power and have a more typical bike Or buy a buell for the same price Have a faster and more unique bike
@@destinnewlon1957 Oh the new Softails, maybe this will get you goin in the right direction. I knew I saw one for a M8 somewhere americanclassicmotors.com/products/zippers-gold-black-chain-conversion-kit-rear-front-sprocket-harley-m8-softail
All the complete kits I've seen use a 530 chain. It's too big and heavy and eats power. They are expensive for the quality of the components they come with. I just bought quality pbi sprockets, a spacer and seal for a 91 sportster and a 520 tsubaki superbike chain.
What?! Belt loses more power than chain? Belt and sprockets are probably lighter. Or at least similar weight. Where does this statement about 10% less power come from?
Mechanical engineer here. Chain drives are more efficient at transmitting power and distributing heat. Belt drives have to be tensioned fairly tight to operate safely and not slip. This creates friction between the belt and the pully system, which causes energy losses. Belt drives also have the disadvantage of stretching and slipping if they overheat, although the engineers usually acount for that in the belt spec.
You put less power to the ground with a chain because the chain and gears outweigh the belt so therefore you have more rolling mass and you lose more power with a chain
Would you convert to the chain drive or keep the belt??
I would prefer switching to a chain, if I was out on the road or stopped often at hang outs. But only for vandalism reasons. In my mind, anytime one of my bikes are parked, I always envision some other harley owner that knows about these belts taking a knife and cutting my belt off. These belts are great, but when you consider if one is severed you have to remove the outer primary and engine compensator and sprocket and clutch hub assembly and then remove your inner primary and your starter and your rear wheel to change that drive belt and knowing all of this major, but then to now some jealous ahole can whop that belt in two with wire cutters or just some knife. There are people that do these things. I even worry about this when my bikes are parked in my driveway in front of my house that some jealous creep will do this. I retired from Hydril co subsea equipment and our machinist as well as our engineers had constant problems with jealous labor helpers and temporaries fucking with the cars of the high salaried employees with nice cars during all the years i was there from 74 till 2004 in the huge parking lot
I've heard stories of belts being cut before, hard bit to piss people off these days too lol.
@@GixxerFoo Anything I can imagine someone doing, usually I find out people have actually done them. There are people that are jealous of harley owners, because even a used one takes serious money over a grand for a basket case. If you drive a cadillac or ride a harley there are sets of angry people
That's very true, even a Harley in several boxes still cost some $$.
@@GixxerFoo Even the cheapest used evo engine on ebay is 1500.00 and that would be for a very used one
Lol, this brings back great memories of when Harley went with the drive belt and the arguments that ensued. If you want custom gearing, lower gearing for an around town or taller for the highway you can't beat a chain and sprockets. The same goes for big power bikes too. Harley invested a lot of R&D in the belt system and it's on a lot of bikes. I'm lucky if I get 15K miles on a chain and set of sprockets so for 4 times the life minimum the belt can be cheaper in the long run.
Oh definetely the belt is gonna be cheaper in the long run. This is my first experience with owning a belt drive bike. It's way less maintenance and all l do is just check it over and keep it clean. No worries about lube and constant adjustment.
I ride a Sportster which means replacing a belt is easy. It's fast enough for me, so power is not an issue. No lubing required and no mess from oil flinging off. No chain for me. Been there, done that.
That's a lot of the reason why I ride Sportsters too, the maintenance is a lot easier not having to dig for the belt.
I agree.
I converted my ‘01 to chain drive many years ago because I like the old school look. Every bike I’ve ever owned was chain driven and to me the belt drive just looked kind of odd. I don’t care if the chain is noisy, dirty, or creates vibration. Solid mount Sportsters vibrate a little anyway. But they are lighter, skinnier and more nimble than the newer bikes so a few vibes are no big deal.
This is my first experience with a belt too, they aren't bad but l agree the chain just looks right on the rigid mount Sportster.
I'm ahead of you here. I changed my '93 Sporty from belt to chain several years ago. The belt was fine. No problem. However, I used to flat-track and learned the importance of having the right gearing. Bought a '92 front sprocket and an aftermarket rear in the sizes I figured I needed. . I lowered the overall gearing somewhat which gave me quicker acceleration and top end. Harley over gears the Sportster so you can't redline the engine in top gear. I can now cruise my 883 at 80mph and can still accelerate without down shifting. It drinks more gas and vibrates more since I'm pulling more revs on the highway but not all that bad. One thing to remember if you want to try converting to a chain. Absolutely use a GOOD (expensive) O-ring chain! Break it in and it'll be almost as quite and smooth as a belt.
That's awesome! I used to flat track myself too, l had whole tree full of sprockets front and rear with chains of different lengths. Gearing is very important and it's a lot cheaper and easier to get where you want with a chain conversion. Not too many options with belts, and it's expensive.
I did a chain conversion on my '95 fatboy.. I actually converted to an open belt primary and a chain final drive ... the belt primary was form over function... I just love an open primary with its look and sound. Changing out my final belt to chain was more for tuning. There is a better selection of drive and wheel sprockets to better tune my final drive ratio ...
Oh hell yeah with a chain and sprocket setup you can get whatever combo you desire and for a while lot less.
I run a 07 lowrider with 120r 138hp/132tq. . i have 60,000 miles on the belt with no problems. I ride this bike across town and across country. and compete in several drag racing events each year. i experimented extensively in the 80's and 90's using beltdrives in other race applications and found the belt drives were more efficient. mostly due to weight reduction. i have a 2000 roadglide that has over 100,000 mile on it with a lot of those miles riding two up and pulling a trailer. It makes a little over 110HP and still has the original belt and pullies with no problems. I also have a stump grinder that runs the same type belt it is 85hp/ 315tq. it sees a lot of heavy full throttle use and the belt and pullies usually last 2500-3000 hrs . they are subjected to a lot of dust and dirt..
That's awesome, the belt is a lot better than it gets credit for. They are a lot stronger than people think!
Great comment!
Thank you
Safe riding
Belt drive set up is heavier than chain drive
Being old enough to have a Sportster before there were belt drive on any motorcycles, I say never again to chains. Having to lube them constantly and adjust them every few hundred miles, ACH!
Not to mention the vibration that chains make at high speeds. Thank God for belt-drive.
Amen to that! I love the belt drive myself and how much cleaner it is. Can't beat the maintenance and not having to clean chain lube off the rear wheel constantly.
What vibrations?
@@Ratridez 😆😂 right? Just part of the experience lol.
@@GixxerFoo 🤣👍
Chains really have come a long wat from the o-ring to the x-ring chains, they can really take a lot of abuse.
I've seen some big horse power motors with the one inch drive belts on them. I was raised with chain drive but I'm old now and I absolutely love the belt. LoL
As a matter of fact just two weeks ago I changed my belt (steel/poly) and front drive sprocket
(Lighter hardened alloy sprocket)
I like the belt drive myself, lnalways had chain drive bikes before too.
Converted mine 6 years ago on my 02 883 using a low brow customs conversion kit, and a 530 chain from diamond. Have put over 15 thousand miles on it. If you use a good quality chain and lubes it often. It won't stretch that often. I run it with a I inch freeplay. And have had to adjust it only 2 in 6 years.
That's awesome! You said the key words, use a good quality chain and lube it often! I myself wouldn't trust the Amazon special when it comes to a chain and sprockets.
I converted my 07 glide to chain 4 years ago , best thing I ever did , no more busted belts in middle of nowhere , I'm using a rk pro chain , very little maintenance .
That's awesome to hear! Getting a quality chain like that is key, guys buy cheap chains and get upset when they fail.
@@GixxerFoo Chains also have no tension , no wear on out transmission bearings , and if you were in an emergency a #50 machine chain is same as a 530 , will get you home .
So how many belts have you broken? And why?
@@davidmcfaull3162 Broke 3 on my electra glide , 2 one a ultra and 2 on a dyna . Drive sprockets are garbage they wear out and stretch the belt , sometimes I get rocks in them .
As much as I respect your knowledge, I have to disagree with your assessment on power loss regarding the belt. 15% is the number when speaking about a shaft drive. The belt has a loss of 1% more than the chain.
SPEED KINGS SPECIALIZE IN CONVERTION KITS EH, THERE OUTTA CALIFORNIA.I LIVVE IN ONTARIO CANADA,LOVE YOUR CHANNEL DUDE.
Switched to chain drive on my 03 in 05. What I've learned is never by a cheap chain because it will wear faster and eat sprockets steel or aluminum. Usually I get two chains to one set of sprockets. Recently I added a chain tensioner and so far so good. Again always run a high quality chain! Keep it clean and lubed ant it will surprise you how long it will last.
Spending the money for a good chain is well worth it! I've tried the cheap chain route before myself with the same results.
I have 330 thousand miles on my 99 Sportster 883 in that time I replace the belt three times when you consider what a chain and a set of sprockets cost every 10 to 20 thousand miles you almost double the price of the bike with all the maintenance you have to do and the part you have to replace as well as all the cleaning if a belt breaks it doesn't knock a hole through your crankcase like a chain does I only put up with a chain on my vintage bike belt drive for a Harley and shaft drive for everything else and the more horsepower you make the more expensive your chain and your sprockets will be
I got the Zippers chain conversion kit With upgraded chain and with a 24-54 Sprocket on a 2014 Harley Street Guide. @3,000Rpm I can do a Power Whillie No clutch All Gas. The chain conversion kit makes a Very BIG difference on low end Torque and coming off the line! I paid $2,100 with installation
I started on dirt bikes and sTeel frame zx-10 I like the snappy response of a chain especially with the twin low band torque it’s bad ass. My grandmas bike will leave the belt on so she doesn’t throw out her hipster though.
I did the Throttle Addiction kit on a 2000 XL 1200, I think it ran me $185. The previous owner had incorrectly mounted the front belt pulley which had damaged the splined shaft coming out of the transmission. There was still enough bite on the shaft to mate up with the sprocket and nut. The sprocket only needed about half the space on the shaft, it worked out nicely. The kit came with a generic #50 roller chain, but it was black/gold, though a Diamond Chain would have been better I was happy for the price. I sold it, made a little money and the owner is happy 2 years later.
Dang you got super lucky on that deal! That's awesome that it held up and everything worked out!
I have never replaced the pulleys on my Sportster with 330,000 my never ever all this BS about changing the gearing well if your eraser doll that has a happy horseshit go for it
If you have a big twin figure in the cost of tearing down your clutch and primary to replace a new sprocket every 20,000 miles I can't imagine belt drive pulleys ever wearing out my buddy who has a chain drive Evo Sportster is constantly replacing chain and sprockets because Sporty's have no compensators and the Driveline therefore they wear the death out of chain drive
@@frankmarkovcijr5459 that’s interesting.It’s up to your personal preference. A lot of trick riders seem to prefer a chain final drive. But I’ve also seen belt primary and final drives fail on the road. I’ve never seen a chain final drive fail. Of course they wear out but that may also be due to poor maintenance. The major attraction of a belt drive is that they run a lot more clean and require less maintenance. Indeed, Sportsters do have an internal adjuster for the primary chain, and I’ve seen those fail so I carry an extra. On my current Buell motor in a Sportster frame project I’m putting it back to a belt final drive. Conversely on a Shovelhead chopper I’m going to run a 3” belt primary and chain final drive with a 48T rear sprocket to bring down the RPMs of the ratchet top for highway cruising. It’s really up to your preference and riding style. Stay safe out there.
Belts for normal use is damm near maint free .make sure tension it correct when you change tire and of course line it up on the pulley. A chain can break and leave you stranded or get tangled in the sprocket and lock tear tire up or bust transmission case
Getting a belt lined up and tensioned correctly is the key, I've seen a chain break on the interstate and do some serious damage on a sport bike. Guy was lucky it didn't lock the rear wheel up.
I got rid of my belt for chain drive and it was the best conversion I've done. Shout out to "TC bros."!!! Now I'm gonna ditch EFI for Carb. on my '13 sporty. I did a chop job with 8" over forks so now I barely get any good mileage, on a good day about 70 miles.
Chain conversion is awesome for gearing changes, it's the way to go! Carb conversions aren't too hard to do, plus you get a lot better sound!
This is a great video man! Super informative. Was literally thinking about this a few days ago, see a lot of Dyna's with them and was considering it for my sporty
Are you going to switch to a chain or stick with the belt?
@@GixxerFoo I think or the purposes of my riding, going to stick to the belt for now
I'm undecided right now between belt and chain man! The belt is going to run me $150 right now! The chain drive does give a classic clean look to the bike though!
Belts are cheaper in the long run, expensive to replace but barring you pick up a rock and shred a belt they can last 100K miles easy.
Clean ? Sure untill you lube it and ride . How is more moving parts a cleaner look ?
A chain looks way better than a belt! Choppers, dynas, fxr's look way badass with chain!
Hey bro. I have watched many of your videos and love them. On this one I think you reversed some numbers. A chain may last 60,000 but a belt will not. I change my drive belt with my back tire about every 10 or 12 thousand. They get brittle and if you twist or pinch them while changing a tire they snap. Learned this the hard way.
Thank you, I appreciate it! It really depends on what bike it's on and how you ride, also how well it's taken care of. I've had a rock get picked up by a belt and destroy it with less than 10k lol.
Man, I get about 15k out of my chains. My Street bob is belt driven and has 28k and very little wear. The desert really doesn’t number on chains.
I've been debating on putting a chain on my Slim S. But I haven't found alot of chooses like there is for the Fxrs dynas and sportys. Great video
Thank you! Conversions on the late model big twins aren't as popular, l don't think l've seen a kit for the late model Softail.
An advantage not mentioned for the belt drive is far less driveline lash since the belt is run tighter than a chain, this is BIG plus especially when you are on and off the throttle a lot like on a twisty road
Switched to the TC bro’s chain drive. The feeling of response is night and day. You should mention that between 99 and 00 they changed the cast wheel and that doesn’t allow interchanging.
So you're getting a much more positive feel of power the ground? I always feel like you can just kinda tell a little soft spot with belt as far as power to the ground. I wasn't aware they changed the cast wheel those years, that's interesting.
GixxerFoo the wheels all come down to axel spacers and rear brake caliper mounting. I still have a belt on my 03 1200. I can feel the belt stretch every time I gun it off of a dead stop or try to keep the front wheel up. My 01 883 with chain can keep the front up all day.
@@ROUGHNECKROGERS Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha!
*_VROOOM! drip VROOOM! BLAT! VROOOM! POP! drip VROOOM! drip GUDDA GUDDA GUDDA GUDDA drip VROOOM! BLORT! BLAT! drip GUDDA GUDDA GUDDA wheeze drip VROOOM! POP! BLAT! drip..._* Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha!
@@ROUGHNECKROGERS Are you saying that Sportster models from 1999 to 2000 can't be converted to a chain drive? All Sportsters before 1999 and after 2000 can use chain conversion kits. Am I understanding correctly?
You can convert anything to chain drive.
I never knew what the little holes were for on the swingarm on my sportster...till I watched a lowbrow video and he showed it was for the wheel alignment tool or coat hanger tool. Lol good tip I thought.
That's what that little hole does, all you need is something to fit in there and measure back to the center of the axle to get your alignment right.
@@GixxerFoo yep he used a coat hanger and a zip tie on it to keep the measurements. I knew those holes were for something just didn't know what till I watched their chain conversion video on Saturday sportster
Ah yes. The sound of an antiquated, two-cylinder tractor -
*_VROOOM! drip VROOOM! BLAT! VROOOM! POP! drip VROOOM! drip GUDDA GUDDA GUDDA GUDDA drip VROOOM! BLORT! BLAT! drip GUDDA GUDDA GUDDA wheeze drip VROOOM! POP! BLAT! drip..._*
My OEM 2019 Roadster/Sportster is very quiet. I can hear the clattering of internal parts when I am moving. So quiet it is in the range of a Honda Nighthawk in decibels.
Yeah those stock mufflers really let you hear the mechanics of the motor, they don't have any silent roller chains and everything is gear driven in the engine.
I have done a few conversions on friends bikes and on 2 of my own and have no regrets at all. A good o-ring chain is self sufficient when it comes to lube and as far as the noise level of a chain over a belt, really? We are talking Harleys here, NOT know for their silent running powertrains. What a chain does give over a belt is the ability to be changed without dismantling the entire ass end of the bike (big twin only), they take abuse much better, and the biggest advantage for me is the ability to change final gearing easily. In my experience Harleys are geared to the moon, especially an evo Softail. Solid mounting means rpm's shake the shit out of you. The downside is zero throttle response on the highway, especially after some engine mods. We put an Andrews EV3 cam in my friends 98 Softail Custom which killed it on the highway, geared way too high stock. Converted to chain dropping the gearing completely changed the bike in a good way. An added benefit is the ability to run a wider rear tire, the stock width looks like a bicycle tire on the back. A bagger yes, run a belt. For that application I believe it's a better choice than a chain. If you like to hammer the throttle and dig the holeshot fun stuff get a chain. My former 98 Sportster and my current FXR both are chain driven, and of course my 74 ironhead as well.
😆😂 the stock rear tires do look like a bicycle, l thought myself for years. I am glad they finally started putting wider tires on in the later years. Yeah with a Harley you ain't gonna notice a chain's noise. Hell you can't hear anything but the exhaust on these bikes.
My phone mistranslated some of one of my comments sorry about that
I converted back to belt after the previous owner put a chain on my 89 electra glide. Less than a week later hopped on the bike to go grab some breakfast and didn't even get out of the driveway. A green walnut somehow found it's way between the belt and rear pulley. SNAP went the belt.
My belt broke on my Buell M2 Cyclone with 18000 miles and with the cost of the belt from St. Paul and the cost I paid to have it installed 400 dollars. Currently putting all of the Buell stuff in a sporty frame with a chain conversation
I've known at least 2 guys who had their bikes vandalized. In both cases, they went out to a parking lot to find their final drive belts laying on the ground or draped across the bike's seat. It's a sign of the times. We inhabit a world that's inhabited by jealous and vicious bug-wits who do not have any morals (or class). Chains and sprockets require more maintenance, but they DO have some advantages over a belt when it comes to repair (especially on the road). Modern bike chains have "O" ring technology which makes them last longer than chains in days of old. Chain/sprockets also lend a nostalgic look to bobbers and choppers. Ride safe.
That's sad anyone would mess with someone's bike like that. Chains are the way to go if you want to play with gearing and different setups too.
Most belt to chain conversions are usually because the owner wants a wider tire. Oddly enough , they usually don't want to spend the bucks for the proper wider rim and try a 150/160 wide tire on a stock 3in wide rim.
And Sportsters do not have any sort of driveline 'cushion' and what on/off throttle lash there is will cause uneven stretching (tightspots) in the chain, difficult adjustment and uneven sprocket wear.
BTW, Tsubaki and Regina O-ring chains are the best!
Got an '11 Sportster 1200, I think I'll keep the belt. It's nice and smooth, really quiet.
I love my belt drive! I don't have any intention of messing with gearing or exceeding the limits of the belt so letting it roll!
If you have whitewalls leave the belt on bc the grease from the chain will sling all over the white and leave you scrubbing constantly and those tires are hard to keep clean as it is
Yeah l don't want to think about having to scrub chain grease off a white wall tire 😬
I have white walls on my 03 road king, as belts wear down they sling black stuff that is all over my white walls now
@@Gingy2335 you sure your belt is not rubbing the tire or anything else? I've never seen or heard of that happening.
Pro Chain - Oversized Wide Tires
Anti Chain - Chain Stretch
Pro Belt - Forever/Light Weight
Anti Belt - Always worrying when forever runs out on the Kevlar Belts because they just go and go and go.
I am always nervous about picking up a rock and shredding a belt, it's not super likely but it does happen lol.
Chain drive was just the easiest option for my hardtail, with the stretch and drop
A lot cheaper too getting the length and gearing you.need on that full custom build.
Aside from the strength aspect, chains just look far better. No big deal putting a bit of lube on here and there with slight adjustments
It's a lot cheaper for gearing changes and easier to find the size of sprockets too!
It's the Gixx-ster! How's it going? My family and I are doing alright. I'm am not enjoying this whole social distancing thing at all, I'm just saying that I've never been a fan of change...especially such a sudden and terrifying once. (I'm not saying that I don't think it's something that people need to be doing. IT IS one of the most important things that we all can take part in and fight this pandemic "together".) It's just going to take me a while to adjust and adapt to this way of living we are all having to do. I have been avoiding anything Coronavirus (Covid-19) on social media and RUclips. Having this increased viewing time on our hands (I should probably use my hand sanitizer for that...lol) I was finding it much too easy to get carried away with the amount of negative and anxiety-inducing videos about the pandemic.
Hope you and your loved ones are being smart and safe.
Good to hear ya'll are doing well, it is nuts out there right now!
The main irritant with belt drive is that when they snap they snap with absolutely no warning. The belt will look perfectly fine. No chips, no cracks, nothing. What fails is the steel re enforcement wires within it. IMHO these cables are much too thin. Durring WWll the US Army used this technology on the M-3 half track. The tracks are one piece rubber moldings with two half inch cables running through them. The vehicles still running today still run with the original tracks manufactured in 1942. Surely H-D can do better than the belts they currently use.
Great video. Not sure about the sporty, but the dyna has small holes poked into the swingarm as points of reference for tire alignment. Btw chain drive is way cooler.
You can't be the timeless chain drive, not a Sportster feature. I still use the old alignment tool and tape measure.
@@GixxerFoo i hear that, old school ways are still the best. Btw on another note, im sure people would love to know why the sporster doesn't come with a 6 speed or the possibility of one.
My 2000 Sporty 1200 Custom has the holes in the swing arm. It saves alot of time.
@@dynaordie8083 Baker makes one for them. But after 04 you got to split the case. Screw that ! One reason I really love my 2k Sporty got a rigid mounted engine , the trap door for the transmission just alot easier. The older Sporty is lighter then the rubber mounted ones , so I have been told. But I love it.
I have an SV650 and haven't had any issues with it's chain, or more precisely after I bought a good quality chain I haven't had any issues and don't hear it over my pipes.
I certainly wouldn't hear it over my Harley's pipes.
Honestly not sure if I'd switch as I have a Fatboy and I'm not generally abusing it as hard as I do my SV
The SV is a seriously fun bike! I had a 1989 Honda NT 650, rigid aluminium frame twin, way ahead of it's time. I'd take an SV650 today over my old GSX-R 1000 just for the fun factor.
Hey I know it's a year later. But check out Block Heads video on the 1275 Hammer 110 hp build he did. Check out the belt on it. Not sure it will last. Idk
I saw that video, that's one hell of a build! The belt should do pretty well just riding it and getting on it every now and then. Lol if you ride the crap out of it it's sure to shear some teeth off though.
My understanding the only reason you would convert to chain is b/c the motor has a high stage kit with too much power for a belt risking a popped belt.
That's about the only reason l would do the swap myself. Unless you just want to go with the old school look of the chain.
@@GixxerFoo A properly tensioned & aligned belt should never POP as they will stretch way less then a chain will. HD uses (or did use) Carbon Fibre (Poly Chain Carbon Belt) or Kevlar in their belts. This means next to no stretch and they are way stronger than chain. Belts might be more expensive than chain, but they will outlast a chain and also they produce way less wear on the pulleys than a chain will.
A Harley with too much power?
Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha!
*_VROOOM! drip VROOOM! BLAT! VROOOM! POP! drip VROOOM! drip GUDDA GUDDA GUDDA GUDDA drip VROOOM! BLORT! BLAT! drip GUDDA GUDDA GUDDA wheeze drip VROOOM! POP! BLAT! drip..._*
Comment for algorithm. Great info as always
Thank you! I appreciate it!
I don’t miss cleaning & oiling that comes with chain drive @ all
I just brought a chain drive conversion for my 16 Iron 883 but I'm only doing this, because I'm doing the HP 1275 kit as well
Yeah that's not a bad idea if your doing a really hot 1275 kit. Belts are great but they can only take so much.
@@GixxerFoo yes I'm doing the Hammer Performance kit with the 10:5:1 reverse dome pistons, kit should be here this week 🙌🏽
That's exciting! That's gonna make your bike an animal!
@@GixxerFoo yes 🙌🏽,I'm debating if I should change my exhaust, I already have a custom made RCX exhaust. But I like the look and sound of the Two Brothers comp s exhaust what do you think I should do?
That's a really exhaust system, l loved them on my sport bikes and l was excited when they started making Harley products. Hammer tested it with their kits and it made really good power.
I think the chain conversion is attractive to people that NEED to change the belt for whatever reason, but don't want to disassemble the ENTIRE motorcycle to do so. Converting to a chain adds performance not only from the delivering power more efficiently but also a regular sprocket is lighter than the big heavy pulley reducing rotational mass and unsprung weight.
I would likely leave the belt alone until either I had a belt failure, engine modifications, or If I was already doing clutch maintenance.
What if you just want that extra hp and torque lost through the belt? Worth it? A stage 1 and a chain conversion on an 883. Nice performance jump?
You gain any extra power to the ground, but the bike will feel a bit snappier.
The cost of Harley pulleys and Belt is twice the price here in Australia I had them on my 1983 FLHS and then on my 1985 Evo which I still ride I went Chain back in 1987 on the Shovel and in the late 80s on the Evo , I have done 280,000 Ks with my Evo and it's still my main ride , I do have a 2013 Twin Cam 103 with 30,000Ks but it's for Sale ,
The point is I can change a Chain in the gutter but I can't do that with a Belt ( O and I run points )
For gearing changes there's no getting around a chain and sprockets for cost effectiveness!
I bought the Sprocket kit from TC Bros, steel sprockets and doesn't come with the chain, it's on the shelf for when my belt grenades. More maintenance yes, but if you run on gravel roads chain is much friendlier when you pick up the occasional rock.
No kidding, gravel will shred a belt and destroy the pulleys in no time.
@@GixxerFoo I have a buddy with a Road King who lives about 3/4 of a mile off the pavement, he blew 3 belts in less than a month a few springs ago, I found him a chain conversion at Zippers and he hasn't regretted it for a second, never heard of that happening to anyone else, so I guess he was in a low karma season or something? Much harder to change a belt on a Road King then a Sporty though.
Damn that's rough and belt's are not cheap! I'd definitely do the chain conversion if l had to ride a stretch of dirt road too. Yeah big twins are not fun to change a belt on, it's quite involved.
35K and haven't done anything to my belt. Working on the rear I'll look at check it. Had chains on others and the best is belt
Belts last a stupid long time and are super low maintenance, I'd keep the belt unless you just want a chain for some reason. If you're not drag racing or just stupid hard on the bike the belt is the way to go.
well explained..... im thinking of going with 23/57 sprocket... any suggestions for wheelies and traveling long rides? thank you
Whew l that would require some experimentation to get it where you like it. Gearing for a long ride and for wheelies are way far apart. I hope you mean one setup for playing and one for highway runs?
@@GixxerFoo maybe the closest i can come up with for both freeway and wheelies would be a 23/55... would you agree?
I think that's a good compromise, or find you a counter size you like and leave that on there. Get a second rear wheel and swap out. That's what a lot of guys do depending on where they are riding.
@@GixxerFoo oh i see... good idea... thank you
Lol no problem!
There is only 2 things that can F@ck a belt. Rocks and Pocketknifes. LOL
😆😂 rocks yes, dare l ask how you know about pocket knives?
@@GixxerFoo Lol, a ole tale we hear about Down Under.
😆👍, lol okay l was wondering if you came out and found your belt like that.
@@GixxerFoo No, only a Story i heard. But i could beleive it did happen when they came out with the Evo and NO kicker. The REAL bikers woundn't of had that.
I have a HiPo motor, with 115RWHP and my belt is 31 years old.
Thinking about doing this to my softail. My question is how much torque and power is lost with a belt vs the chain??
You really wouldn't notice any loss, it's more for strength if you're putting a lot of power down.
I installed a chain conversion kit i have to tighten my chain every 200 miles and watch the aluminum sprocket erode away with each trip. Now im looking for steel sprocket and beefy 530 o-ring chain, probably going to go with drag specialties.
I've never had good luck with aluminum sprockets for longevity either, I used them for weight savings on my race bikes. But on the street I went with steel since I did the same thing too watching my sprockets get eatin away.
PBI makes the best sprockets period if you have alloy sprocket check there website cause they make it in steel also ! Cheap sprockets will result in tight & loose spots & will ware the chain & sprocket prematurely ! As an old drag racer got lots of time with 530 doing chain & sprockets !
I don't like the maintenance required on chain so belt has always been my choice on every bike since 1996.
I love the belt, it's light and it's very low maintenance! I don't do any kind of riding that would require a chain luckily, chains can be a real mess.
I have 06 street bob and I am not looking forward to changing the belt. I'm literally considering switching to chain drive to avoid this in the future😂
service writer at my dealership says the rear belt on his 22' ultra limited can withstand 150 hp and 600 lbs worth of people for 100k plus mileage. 150 hp for 1500 lbs of loaded bike. i feel bad for the clutches and or the transmission. but i believe in his thought...the belt will last 100k, maybe. meanwhile im riding a twin cam fxr with a chain at 750 lbs totat w rider.
Also you might need to convert to chain drive if you go with a hardtail kit on a sporty...
I'm "Choppering" My 2005 883XL and I want a little wider tire. I'm going to have to convert to a chain to make room for a wider tire. Otherwise, I really like the belt setup. 45 years behind bars and belts are sooooo much less work or trouble.
I'm in the process of a chain conversion on a 2013 sportster 1200v. Reason I'm going to a chain is I streched my swing arm 7 inches
Chain and sprockets are a lot cheaper for custom work like that and gear changes!
@GixxerFoo you are so correct on that. I wanted just a bit more umph on the lower end. Didn't see no need to go into the engine when I could play with the gearing to get it. Also, by streching out the swing arm, I have the same wheelbase as a street bob
I've been thru 2 front pulleys on my s2thunderbolt has a pro lgnition and supertrapp exhaust that's in 8000 miles .the splines strip on them any ideas on if the chain splines are stronger?
BIGGEST reason for chain conversion on a sportster is regearing. They come a little short on the highway gear. Engine revved out just to keep up. Second would be going from 883 to 1200 jugs. Regear for the extra power. The guys that say nostalgia are full of it. Old harleys started out with a leather belt. However, on the big bikes, i.e. dyna, streetglide ect. They are not fun to put a new belt on. Lots of disassembly. Not so with a chain. Unless you need a new front sprocket.
You mght get a smoother ride wth the chain---it allows a bump hit to rotate the wheel slightly, the 'tight' belt has no rotatonal 'give'....
Chains are great for high horsepower builds, classic look and they are a lot less prone to damage. It doesn't haven't often but you can pick up a rock and shred a belt.
When belts first came out, they musta make a splice kit for a belt that would get you back home !!!
When Belts first came out? The early 20th century motorcycle belts were made of leather. I suppose it could be stitched back together at the local leather goods shop. Modern Kevlar Blend Belts... have you ever met someone that told you they broke thiers? Maybe debris lodged in the teeth or sprocket gears by kicking it on dirt roads? Buell's Ulysses came with a belt driven system and it was an Offroad bike.
I shoulda said when the Sturgis was introduced, sorry about that !!!
When Kawasaki first introduced a belt in the 1980's they actually did a demonstration by hanging the bike by a drive belt to demonstrate it's strength. They are really tough, but like anything if they sustain any mechanical damage they will break.
@@GixxerFoo Agree!
i have an anomoly....
built a custom belt drive on a 97 marauder.i can change the belt without removing the swing arm .can do it on a kickstand and a floor jack( not a bottle jack) but been fortunate the belt won't break. it was worth the work.
The Sportster has holes Ii n the swing arm to measure the rear wheel from . There mid way on the swing arm if you all want I can get a picture of them and just use a old metal coat hanger . It works.
That's exactly what I do to line mine up!
Good deal.
You couldn't pay me to change back to a chain drive system, Not having that chain lube mess all over my bike is a thing of the past!
Some people prefer them, I personally would stick with the belt drive myself!
The problem with a chain drive is heat on long trips. They heat up and stretch. If you hit cold rain now it stays that way.
How old is this video? I wish those were the prices now
It's a couple years old now, things have really gotten stupid in price since this was made.
V Belt Supply.
i bought a custom size belt for my Marauder . 170$ rated for 400 hp electric motor so more than adequate . used old S 40 pulleys .belt measurez 40 mm wide
14 mm pitch
2002 mm long.
round tooth.
you can see it if you go to my channel in my thumbnail.
That's awesome! How's it ride swapping over from the chain? I'll check that video out.
Does anyone know the front sprocket offset?
Depends on the year, what year are you looking at converting?
luv Harley engines ( Buell M2 owner ) . . hate the belt drives
Buell was the coolest bike ever with a hot Harley motor in a space age chassis. We will never see a factory mashup like that again with an old school air cooled engine in a razor sharp chassis.
Saw my belt lying on the road in the mirror of my XL 1200, (40,000 mi) just installed chain, won't happen again. make sure you get the year right. Not hard.
Why/how is there so much power loss w/ a belt and pulley system ?
They say there is some flex in the belt, which I can see compared to the chain.
I was skeptical about the belt... today I think back to the noisy, dry slapping chain that requires lube that makes a mess out of your ride. If I wanted another chain I'd buy a Suzuki....🤣👍🏻
There was a lot of of people wondering about belts back in the day but they are really a lot stronger than most would think! Low maintenance and reinforced with kevlar doesn't leave you much to worry about.
My harley makes so much different noises im ok with adding another one 😂
The answer is why, the question is yes!
Lol always say yes, it's more fun that way 😆😂.
I'm pretty sure that a chain absorbs more power than a belt
One of the best things about my Harley is belt drive. If I want big power to go fast I jump on the Suzuki 😁
Anyone else ever have belt squeak after a chrome pulley install? Can't seem to chase it down on my 06 XL1200c
Yes, I have had that in the past. Checked alignment and really couldn't find anything wrong. I put some miles on it and eventually it stopped, I believe it was the finish on the pulley where the belt ran. I went to using a black or chrome cover going forward so I didn't have to deal with it again.
@@GixxerFoo Just to clarify. You got squeak on the chrome pulley - not the pulley cover?
@@GixxerFoo and same. Alignment and tension won't do it. Lubing the side of belt will eliminate the squeak for only a few miles
At the moment, just staying with the belt. No off roading. Just cruising.
On my softail im going chain drive now.. the torque is breaking the aluminum rim.. and pulley... so...its a no brainer
I'll take stock belt for street.
I'd have to agree the belt is hard to beat for day to day riding.
Wanting to do this on my buell m2 cyclone
Those bikes are getting hard to come by! I wish I would I would of bought one back in the day now.
@@GixxerFoo the M2 bikes are still out there for a reasonable price
Mines a 01 with 16k miles
Got it for 2400$
@@GixxerFoo i had a choice
Buy a sportster for 3-6k and have less power and have a more typical bike
Or buy a buell for the same price
Have a faster and more unique bike
Damn that's a steal, the clean ones l have found close to me were not that good of a price.
Buell is the way to go, those motors really started to become their own when they were axed. They did some really awesome engineering on those Evos.
Anyone know where to get a rear sprocket for a softail thats 36 teeth 530 chain
Zippers has some complete chain conversion kits for the Softail models.
@@GixxerFoo i looked doesn't say they're compatible with a new 18+ softail
@@destinnewlon1957 Oh the new Softails, maybe this will get you goin in the right direction. I knew I saw one for a M8 somewhere americanclassicmotors.com/products/zippers-gold-black-chain-conversion-kit-rear-front-sprocket-harley-m8-softail
@@GixxerFoo ok thanks
Or if you need more clearance that the belt won’t give you but a chain will.
All the complete kits I've seen use a 530 chain. It's too big and heavy and eats power. They are expensive for the quality of the components they come with. I just bought quality pbi sprockets, a spacer and seal for a 91 sportster and a 520 tsubaki superbike chain.
Tsubaki is a bad ass chain, I used those on my race bikes for years!
chain increase top speed ??
No, adding a chain won't increase the top speed, but it does make it easier to change your gearing to allow for more on top if you want.
What?! Belt loses more power than chain? Belt and sprockets are probably lighter. Or at least similar weight. Where does this statement about 10% less power come from?
It's a toss up depending on what material you're running.
Mechanical engineer here. Chain drives are more efficient at transmitting power and distributing heat.
Belt drives have to be tensioned fairly tight to operate safely and not slip. This creates friction between the belt and the pully system, which causes energy losses. Belt drives also have the disadvantage of stretching and slipping if they overheat, although the engineers usually acount for that in the belt spec.
The sportster belt is easy to change,
It's a huge benefit of riding a Sportster, you don't have to disassemble the whole primary to swap it out!
Chain looks mean and loud. Belt looks soft and quiet.
The chain really isn't that loud especially with these new x-ring chains.
@@GixxerFoo your right. Just looks cool to me. Especially on a bobber
You gotta have the old school look on a bobber. Just wouldn't be right without it.
Part of the decision to buy a Harley was because they are belt driven. Less maintenance.
You already know I got that chain. Belts are for pants
😆😂👍, chains aren't bad at all and a lot cheaper than the price of one belt.
🚲👀👂 👍👍👍👍👍🐴
You put less power to the ground with a chain because the chain and gears outweigh the belt so therefore you have more rolling mass and you lose more power with a chain
Chains sure make it easier for gearing changes but you add quite a bit of maintenance.
Driveshaft.. Definitely convert to driveshaft
Or just buy the steel belted belt 😝🤣🤪
Lol converting to drive shaft can be done, l've seen Kawasaki 900 Eliminators converted from drive shaft to chain. Serious pia but it could be done.
@@GixxerFoo and why wouldn't you.? Why would you ride on anything less...
Harley's act like the king of the motorcycles
Even have a "road king"
Lol l've never considered the Road King king of the road 😆😂. They should fire whoever named their bike models.
@@GixxerFoo My name is Bob, I'm fat. You guessed it, I ride a '17 Fat Bob. It just seemed to call me.
Fat Bob is an awesome bike! One of the best handling Harleys out there.
way too much talking