The Tyranny of Merit with Michael Sandel
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- Опубликовано: 8 июн 2024
- Featuring Michael Sandel, professor of political philosophy at Harvard University and author of The Tyranny of Merit: What’s Become of the Common Good, in conversation with Elliot Gerson, executive vice president at the Aspen Institute. Sandel has been described as “the most popular professor in the world.” In his forthcoming book to be released in September 2020, he examines how we define success and how our meritocracy is hurting the common good. Can we be hopeful for a future that prioritizes the common good over individual success? Presented as part of the McCloskey Speaker Series.
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I am one of 4 kids in a family whose dad died when I was nine in 1963. We were poor but luckily we had an incredible mom, a loving extended family, survivors benefits from Social Security, and belonged to a supportive Catholic parish. We all wound up with BAs, as well as several MAs, a PhD (from Harvard no less) and an MD. We all appreciate how lucky we were to have the support we had in our struggles, and we want everyone in our society to enjoy the same.
What you are saying is, you went out to achieve merit, and you want everyone to do the same. What the book says is, we should respect people not for their "merit" (or their PhD brother) but for being people.
I have a similar story.
But no ome looked down on you for the colour of your skin. No one followed you in the store. No one denied you a job or an opportunity brcause you were coloured. You were Lucky to be white.
Being Catholic helped. I am an ex Catholic. I cannot support a pedophile religion.
Anyways- you have merits. So do I.
But. None of us was denied of a merit because of the colour of our skin.
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The aspen institute is the perfect audience, the folks who most need to hear this!
Walter Isaacson points out that Kurt Anderson's Evil Geniuses: The Unmaking of America needs to be considered along with Michael Sandel's new book.
@Kaiser Valentino That's disgusting. Take your filthy ideas and ads away from here.
Thank you for your being my dear pattern. Thank you my dear professor.
We should all - ALL be considered worthy of respect and it should never depend on what educational institutions we have been able to attend! If you trained for a decade as a therapist, but never attended a four year college and certainly not a "name-brand" university, then- your value as a therapist (of any kind) is much higher than a Phd. in political science! We each have a unique contribution to share with our community, country, world. Respect that and stop "measuring" our worth by the sick meritocracy. It really is sick.
I have to thank Michael J. Sandel for his ideas on meritocracy, a simple idea with mass appeal, and it's capability for corruption - his clarity and acuity is a balm for my mind. From a british social history perspective, to supplant both the correctness of, from the left, collective bargaining and people receiving fair wages for their productivity, and from the right, historic social cultural conservatism, with different aspects of the assumption that "meritocratic" market forces leading to benevolent and fair social outcomes (rather than this apparent global scale monopoly game, an economic retelling and of Hansel and Gretel guiding us into rapid decadence and social entropy, whilst governments, regulators and GAAP all fail to keep pace with rapid change), instead cementing the ongoing relative wealth and power of the winners of the game, ths new elite, in perpetuity. More power to you.
Well said!
Thank you Michael Sandel, very logical response to the situation we are in
Very interesting talk!
Great event! currently reading the book and it seems very interesting
Sandel brings freshness to an old tired subject...like his head
"It depends"! Yes, yes, yes! And it depends greatly on "the content of their character". It does not depend on "name recognition" or a Hollywood career, etc.
Great point at 50:26
Michael Young - It was not just "I did it on my own" IT IS ALSO - "I'm better than those who didn't"
Nonsense. Sandel and you are promolgating sophisms. You haven't even advanced past kindergarten level moral tales like "The Little Red Hen".
The hen didn't deserve the bread because she "did it by herself" or baked the bread "better than anyone else". It is because she owned the inputs and took the actions that contributed to the final outcome.
Even if the fox helped she would have been due a share of bread. Even if she is a terrible cook and the bread inferior she deserved it.
Michael J. Sandel makes a piss poor economist, and you just made it worse.
@@brianmacker1288 M. Sandel I would say more a moralist than economist. What he says is true though, people have to know what they do matters and they are respected, hence a debate on how to achieve this is needed.
@@MarincaGheorghe Why does one “ have “ to know if they’re respected ? If one is reliant on the opinion of others it seems to me they have very low self esteem.
But Alain de Botton covered this issue years ago in his book, Status Anxiety
Sadly both men in the video failed to recognize the role of our all encompassing 24x7x365x every sense available propaganda aka public relations aka advertising has in our nightmare. Even the term American Dream is a nebulous nothing which disappears the instant you look. The very mechanisms which might educate us rely on the money generated by false and misleading ads!
? ?? Whatever is transient is unreal. Advertising can be good and bad...
Dr. Sandel:
Do you feel like you were hired by Harvard based on merit? If not, how were you chosen over other excellent candidates?
I have witnessed scholars engaged in very hard to research, learn, and publish, - in competition with others to achieve greater expertise and value to the academic community. Would you describe the results of such efforts as "merit"? If such efforts do not create additional value, do you think that academic institutions should hire and promote without regard to performance?
If merit is not the right word, how else would you describe expertise, experience, knowledge and skills that differentiate individuals in ways that identify their relative value for a given task?
Thank you for your insights.
There is, of course, a strand of irony in the position of Sandel critising in such a fundamental way the same ivy league institutions which made of him one of the world's most renowned moral philosophers of our age ...
Social position is something many of us will not have taken seriously. It seems clear that the parents who wanted their kids to go to prestigious colleges had something of the sort in mind. It seems surprising.
Can you elaborate more on this by what you mean.
@@fakedonttrackmevro6629 I was thinking about the parents who paid so much money to a man who promised to manipulate the admissions system to get their child into a prestigious university. I was wondering why they felt that was so important. I believe the speaker, Mr. Sandel, said the purpose was to gain "social position." I was trying to figure out what "social position" really is and why those parents might want their kids to have it. But now that I think about it, maybe it was the parents' social position, or rather their bragging rights, that they wanted. "My daughter goes to USC" would maybe be something they wanted to tell others. I really don't know.
@@RalphDratman It's sad. Why not just mobilize that money somewhere for better use. It's a curse to be that rich and famous. You're constantly thinking about what others think of you and how to impress people you don't really care for. Oh look my kid went to X and graduated with honors. The truth is no one cares. I think the more materialistic our society becomes the more we start worry about what others think. Idk
@@fakedonttrackmevro6629 I agree, and someone pointed out that USC isn't even that prestigious a school anyway!
I feel sorry for the daughter, who actually was the main victim of her parents' criminal meddling.
@@RalphDratman I think her mother is a victim as well. I don't know her so I can't be 100 percent sure but I think she might be a narcissist. She's so full of the idea of merit and being the center of attention. It's hard to say if she has any self aware. Or is even capable of self reflection. I don't any one wins in this scenario all party's are victims.
Wouldn't a draw be just considered as a positive action equivalent?
Good.
Though one may toil their way through an elite education, in the abstract, when they emerge from these hallowed institutions, there is no guarantee they're truly educated. And once more, may well be suffering from well-crafted systematic Pavlovian programming, unawares. After all, as a nation, we have perfected the assembly line. What's to stop this highly tuned process at manufacturing? Remember, when a defect is found in the assembly line, it doesn't usually effect just one vehicle, and it may well be something important, like brakes?
Blindspots and black swans?...
@@ludwigbeethoven3119 ...and severely occluded diamonds cut to perfection.
What would happen after an all out nuclear war? Would Megan McCain have more value than a carpenter? Would a billionaire hedge fund manager have more value than an electrician?
I wish to have a copy of this book. If there is anyone willing and able to sponsor me, please let me know. I will reimburse you as soon as I start working again.
To quote Hank Rearden, "their common good requires me to be a victim, and demands I get nothing for my efforts. Then I say common good be damned, I'll have no part of it"
Me. Me me me me. me.
Not you.
Me.
Billions of years of evolution led to me. And I am all that matters.
Me.
After i am dead nothing will matter.
Me. Now. Me.
Ayn Rand's extreme version of selfishness, her hubris, can not be touched with the humility of our ignorance to the cosmos as it is.
@@mabloom77g lol okay guy.
I place "for the common good" in the same basket with "a living wage". It's one of those feel good phrases that people throw around when they can't comprehend the problem at hand but want to offer a solution anyway.
We need to get away from the collective mentality. Individuals need to pursue their own self interests. That doesn't mean the end of charity. Some will find it in their self interest to be charitable. It will put an end to the forced redistribution of wealth. In this the 21st century it is possible for every taxpayer to vote on how every dollar collected by the government should be spent. I could then allocate my tax dollars to space exploration and advance the human race while someone else is free to support welfare and help grow the dependent class. Everyone pursuing their own self interests. No group preferences, a true meritocracy free from guilt.
The discussion tends sidewards when they critise that the income of the CEOs of a casino business, bankers etc. is much higher than that of teachers. I think that there is a sort of 'systemic (moral) justice' functioning underneath, which allows people in the financial world to be corrupted by money, while those teaching and educating human beings should not get corrupted by wealth.
We did not fall into this attitude. Frankly to NOT express this attitude would mark us as odd, weird, out there. It's all encompassing and ever present. Billboards proclaim YOU CAN DO IT. Self help industry says with one simple trick you can X!!!
Globalisation has allowed a reversal to a version of Victorian society i think. The means of industrial production has moved to overseas areas where the working population are exploited thoroughly. This leaves large numbers in our own countries with little prospect of well paid employment. They are rightly angry and look for who to blame. Finding ways to get some of them into top universities does not address this core problem. Humility or hubris not really helpful either. Political courage would. Rebuilding industry in the western nations would. Listen to the populists they have the ear of the so called left behind people and could take control and we all know where that could lead.
THE MERIT TYRANNY _ understandable as it must be . It's present on everywhere inside of at Civil Society. We, ought to respect about our lives, Whether on accomplishiment of about our jobs or low level of achievemments due to our starting point disavantage atatched to; in adding to absence of thrustilly Policies before implemented .Soon, To take assumed responsabillity for people whose are accountable to promoving the welfare toward the firsr one's will be fair to do will be whortilly to point out in adding to that , the high School degree hardlly will be ( at this histórical of moment of Mentallity Change ) reallity for at majority of The World Students since of Kindgarden to primary or Secundary School indeed. The named "Winners" or front top certainlly deserving their better results ,even though to looking for what were able able to puts them at advantages for to fitting their privilegied position inside of Workplace. MUST BE TAKING INTO ACCOUNT.
If wages aren’t going to be increased, then could the cost of living be lowered?
Awesome
Michael: The "anti-intellectualism" that is rampant STEMS from the meritocracy!
Are the underclass folks actually against legal immigration?
The common good requires society to set rules to encourage people to work hard and not set the stage for lazy, idle citizens. The implicit message of socialism is "You too will never rise so why bother". The message of capitalism is work hard and maybe. Let's learn to live with our jealousy and hubris, or else we will all be living in a third world country.
I agree with you about admissions to Harvard, it should be a lottery for those in the top 10% of SAT.
Say: WEALTH TAX!
Shouldn’t a rethinking of our tax system be on order? Perhaps the institution of a wealth tax?
Yes get a college degree if you want one. Just get one that an employer will also want.
Would not the poor do the same given the advantage of wealth , or not affording, does this give moral merit,there will always be a separation, shame is, it would be good to see thoes who can do with there own ability, but like law the well educated barrister will demand more money than a solicitor,, so unless there is capping and standardization its always going to be this way sadly.
Wow that's actually a good point. Unless you instill values to those who do gain the advantage of wealth.
one and only one reason: too many human in the world already. Today human fed by more human to get fat.
My God, the inane ramblings of academics..! This so called 'discussion' is utterly without merit. A stupid premise, and twisted partial understanding of society gains no more credibility through endlessly annoying re-hashing. Mr. Sandell should come in time, to be ashamed of his foolish contribution to an unfounded idea he helped promote.
The author is nothing but a huxter.
Blondie asked a staged bogus question! No one from the 1% earner group would dignify this foolish concept as presented by Sandell, they already know that their intelligence not only benefits themselves, but the national weal.
so much inconsistency by Sandel .
is he drunk?
Or maybe You're drunk!
Care to explain?
Drunk off the popularity or the extent to which his ideas caught on.. I honestly only discovered him via Peter Boghossian's hosting Dr. Lyell Asner for a talk titled 'Why Colleges became Cults' .. blown away
What a sad revelation, that Michael Sandel does not understand our system of economic expansion...
He begins with 'economic inequality', which is the myth the left has been perpetuating. The reality of economic expansion, especially under our modern credit economy, is that entrepreneurs and established business expansion alike, fueled by the availability of financing in our equity markets (stock market to you), and the liquidity infused into the economy through monetary policy, which increases credit available to the banking system, does not benefit just the business owners. It in fact, delivers great wealth effects to the entire national economy, not just through job creation, but through the lowering of product cost via competition, and the profusion of technological advancement that confers concrete wealth upon the entire national population. If you doubt it, or want to characterize this effect as 'trickle down theory', just try to live without your AC, your car, radio, television, cable service, microwave, phone, and the dozens of other products YOU have, but less efficient economies around the world, do not. The American worker is among the wealthiest in the world, not in terms of bank account balance, but in living standard. As to the differential in a tech company founders' wealth, and an average worker's wealth, the inequality is appropriate. Merit deals with what 'anyone' can do, if they try. Workers may not try, may not become educated, and have no legitimate right to expect to possess what those who have tried, and succeeded possess. And most of the wealth possessed by the wealthy is not buying them a vastly different life then anyone else. Beyond their house, cars, vacations, the money they control remains invested in the marketplace, which in turn fuels the expansion of more business, thereby producing even more wealth for the average citizen. If that wealth were distributed across the population of average Joes, it'd come to a few hundred dollars each, ending up in Walmart's income statement within a week. If you are stupid, you drive entrepreneurs & business chiefs away in a flight of human capital to a more hospital government, and you have LESS wealth accruing to your nation from then on... the essence of socialism. It's defects proven by the experience of Sweden which leaned into socialist policy from 1965 to 1995, and then backtracked in order to revive their economy. If you want to discuss the unfairness of 'merit', talk to God... since the average IQ of White folks is 100 (and 85 for Blacks) which is far below the level generally needed in order to succeed in high school, or college, or life. Now that I know Mr. Sandell is a confused, and unrepentant advocate for socialism, it explains why the country, led by so many graduates of Harvard Law, has been suffering from these stupid and baseless ideas. Harvard has hired so many liberals without an understanding of economics, it's a hotbed of pretzel logic.
blasphemy his books should be burned.
GET A MATH BOOK YOU CLOWNS..! This is unbearable, the stupidity. Do you REALLY think that admitting the bottom 50% of students into a top performing college would be productive? All you would accomplish would be to turn Harvard and Yale, etc into community college, which is where the bottom 50% of high school students with equivalent 10th grade educations actually BELONG. Why do smart people chase their own tails? A top performing school is built by filling it with top performing minds, ok? It's not the other way around. IQ is real...
Boy, how annoying it is to see this man espousing such garbage. The fact that he knows so little of economic theory, and yet doles out advice on taxation, politics, etc, is really unforgivable. Be a man for crissakes, our Grandparents did not need the government holding their hands to recognize the dignity of their work.
some of the greatest arrogance I have ever heard, Is Harvard paying for this crap
If there's one public intellectual who is NOT an arrogant know-it-all, it's Michael Sandel.
@Nuby You have SO OBVIOUSLY not read the book.
@Nuby He saves his harshest criticism for Ivy League colleges, and has zero sympathy for "victimhood," so you'd probably love the book. Yes, Sandel is de facto an elitist by profession/position but not at all in his personal temperament. It does help to know what you're talking about.
@Nuby What part of basic economics did he misunderstand?