Haydn: Piano Sonata No.33 in C minor, Hob.XVI:20 (Alfred Brendel) (Audio + Sheet Music)
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- Опубликовано: 5 авг 2018
- Haydn: Piano Sonata No.33 in C minor, Hob.XVI:20
Alfred Brendel, Piano (rec. 1991)
Sheet Music: imslp.org 
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You can hear how much Haydn taught Beethoven ....
Yes, of course! Beethoven learned a lot from Haydn. But he could never reach him! At least I think so.
Not really; this sonata was written in 1771 so Beethoven was only one year old, and the two composers didn’t meet until 20 years later in 1790 when Haydn called at Bonn on his way to England.
Paradoxically, Haydn taught Beethoven nothing according to the latter when referring to the counterpoint lessons, but in fact, Beethoven learned a huge amount from him otherwise.
Regarding this sonata, if anything, this magnificent work reflects something of CPE Bach, but reflected through the prism of Haydn on an inspirational high.
(Yes, Beethoven did learn much from Haydn, though it’s not particularly evident here except in more general terms of its c minor mood, compositional technique, and so forth).
The language and rhetoric of this sonata is stylistically and chronologically too early to be described as Beethovenian in any way - Beethoven’s first set of sonatas (Opus 2) are still a quarter of a century away; the greatest music of Mozart and Haydn should *never* be described using a Beethovenian yardstick, anymore than should Beethoven’s be measured against Schumann, Chopin, Mendelssohn or Liszt from the next generation - they are simply too different.
This monumental sturm und drang sonata is a profound, powerful and emotional work - adjectives that do not belong solely to Beethoven and that are here, equally applicable to Haydn at a time baby Beethoven was in nappies in a cradle - and I suppose that is where you have made the link; the second movement actually takes a backward glance to the Baroque, and is actually more JS Bach than Beethoven.
@@urshandschin5108
You may find my observations above of some interest.
@@elaineblackhurst1509
Ottima analisi, grazie
@@giovanniguglieri5287
Prego.
Didn't know Haydn could sound so modern before!
Major doesn’t mean archaic
haydn is just criminally underrated, it's really sad honestly.
This sonata of 1771 is the world’s first, unequivocally great, minor key piano sonata.
@@elaineblackhurst1509 which has the interesting feature that all three movements are in "sonata" form. The first movement is not fast; commonly in Haydn it is on the slow side. Brendel plays it too fast in my opinion.
this is mind-blowing! I can't believe that Haydn composed this
This very fine sonata - the world’s first indubitably great modern minor key piano sonata - is pretty much characteristic of Haydn in minor mode c.1771; try the slightly earlier sonata in A flat Hob. XVI:46 (1768) for something very similar in mood.
@@elaineblackhurst1509 thanks for the recommendation! I immediately liked it as soon as I heard it.
huh? why not?
Just because it’s in a minor key?
This piece is a perfect fit for Brendel. I know many people adore his Schubert but I feel that here his insight is even more penetrating
He didn't understand that first movements in Haydn are slow movements.
Соната-просто прелесть!
это прекрасно!
Brendel will always be my favorite pianist
I listen to it a lot.👍
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Wow! Thriller after thriller! Andante was awesome!
The opening reminds me of Beethoven 5th sonata.
Brendal is the Best!!! Very Well played!!! ❤🎉
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marvelous sonata like all Haydn
You’re quite right, but actually it’s better than that.
Of the 52 sonatas in the Hob.XVI catalogue, it is one of the very finest; indeed, written in 1771, it is the world’s first indisputably great modern minor key piano sonata - the A flat sonata Hob.XVI:46 of 1768 just pipping it to title of ‘first great modern sonata’.
@@elaineblackhurst1509
I put the XVI 52 on the same level of this Sonata, great music
@@SCRIABINIST
The sonatas are variable, largely depending on circumstances - an essercizo for a learner, or an ‘easy’ and popular sonata intended for good sales, obviously are not the same as the profound c minor sonata, nor something like Hob. XVI:52 written for a professional pianist like Therese Janson in London, to be played in public, on a big modern Boadwood, or Longman & Broderip piano.
My point about the c minor sonata (1771) is that I think it the world’s second indisputably great modern sonata - the first being the A flat Hob. XVI:46 (1768) - but I agree completely that the one you mention is definitely on the list as well (though written about a quarter of a century later).
Спасибо!
So Very Good and Beautiful and tragic and Soothing and Creative!!! Go Great Haydn Always!!! May God Richly Bless y'all and Jesus Peace!!! Merry Christmas yall!!! 😂🎉😮❤
manifique !!
Beautiful
I discovered Haydn's piano sonatas only about three years. They vary in emotional and intellectual intensity and are, equally, variable in technical difficulty. This C minor sonata is one of his greatest achievements and, like the oratorioThe Creation or the Missa in Angustiis (the so-called 'Nelson' Mass) puts one foot forward from the late Classical era into the territory of early Romanticism. Haydn's ability to compress a vast amount of expression into a small phrase is remarkable. The first movement is packed with Beethovenian drama but my personal preference is the andante movement. So much depends in this sonata in a strict observance of phrasing and dynamic markings; they make or break this piece. Brendel is totally in this music and on top of it.
An interesting and thoughtful comment, though I’d question your mis-identifying the mood and spirit of this sonata as ‘one foot…into the territory of early Romanticism’.
This very fine c minor sonata is a quintessentially Classical sonata, and neither Haydn nor Mozart wrote a single note of music that could be described as Romantic - a totally alien concept from a future world.
(It’s even debatable the degree to which Beethoven was a Romantic compared to Schumann, Chopin, Mendelssohn, Liszt, et al).
Not all Classical music (c.1750-1800) needs to be like delicate porcelain figurines to be Classical; composers wrote music of great power, depth, emotional content, expressivity, sensitivity, and much more, including some adjectives that later became key characteristics of the Romantic composers, but these later composers do not have a monopoly on such music as you have yourself identified whilst listening to this sonata.
@@elaineblackhurst1509 in fact romanticism was created in the 18th century. Known as Sturm und Drang in music. The bizarre thing is that 19th century composers called themselves romantic.
@@meyerbeer13
Sturm und drang was originally a literary phenomenon, not a musical one.
The use of the term in relation to music was first found in the early 20th century, and the musical sturm und drang anyway preceded the literary one.
The musical sturm und drang largely - but not entirely centred on Vienna between 1765 and 1775 - had nothing to do with the 19th century Romantic movement, nor the 18th century literary sturm und drang (largely German).
@@elaineblackhurst1509 that's interesting. The thing that bothers me is the so called romantic movement in 19th century which i think was a marketing technique of R Schumann. I read that the originally romantic literary movement was in the court of Frédéric of prussia. Haydn was a romantic composer in many ways but of course he is associsted mostly with vienna. Mozart is more mannered than Romantic. Like Boccherini.
@@meyerbeer13
CPE Bach moved easily and freely amongst the artistic and literary elite of Berlin with whom he was considered an equal; he was an educated and cultivated man involved in many branches of the arts.
Musically, Berlin ossified under Frederick the Great, limited pretty much equally by his abilities, prejudice, and taste; this control did not extend to other branches of the arts - so they flourished..
Musically, it was not Romanticism, but sensitivity - empfindsamer Stil - that was his guiding spirit of CPE Bach; this is evident from even a cursory glance at his Versuch.
Neither Haydn nor Mozart at any point come within a million miles of the Romantic spirit of Schumann, Chopin, Mendelssohn, Liszt, et al; to repeat myself, Romanticism was an alien concept from a future age.
Haydn survived Mozart by 18 years, but even his very last works betray no signs of the Romantic aesthetic; neither does the work of Beethoven who many also do not include as a Romantic composer; my preferred label for him being post-Classical.
Mozart and Haydn spoke a common musical language, but with very different accents.
So beautiful. uwu
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Спасибооо вы очень помогли!)
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muy bueno el 3º mov
Los tres son maravillosos, el q mas me gusta es el primero
Мне больше всего нравится 1 и 3 части этой прекрасной сонаты Гайдна.
Brendel in Hadyn ! This Sonata WOW! Where did it comer from . I swear Brahms was the incarnation of Hadyn . Several measures from many of his Sonata make one think of most often played Hadyn e minor Sonata too. It would scare the hell outta me if I found such on all those Symphonies except my time is for living composers won't go look in the museum bins . Only because it was a minor key and one of so many of the 63 I dont know . I wonder if we have incomplete music of his . This Sonata is truly gorgeous . WOW! Music didnt begin with Varese or James Dillon did it ?
Thorn Lesser
It’s a great sonata - true.
The composer’s name is *Haydn* (sic).
Haydn*
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This piece is really great, no doubt, and the pianist playing it here as well. However, I have the same sheet as this video shows, and the way he plays it is different: dynamics are changed, there are articulations on simple notes, some tempo changes here and there, and also a few notes changed (not many, but a few). Other than that though, an amazing performance, on an amazing piece.
He's probably using an urtext edition which is completely different.
Darian Burcea
You’re quite right; this is the world’s first truly great modern piano sonata (1771) in a minor key.
i noticed that too. Don't know if he deliberatelly changed by means of interpretation of if it is just a different score.
Everything you’re referring to here can easily be explained by either (1) small variants between different editions, or (2) historically-informed, tasteful artistic license.
Before the romantic period, composers did not usually notate every dynamic and articulation fastidiously. It was left up to the taste of the interpreter. Later editions, specially those done below the shadow the romantic umbrella, tend to add both as they see fit. Which does not always, nor usually, match the original intention of the composers.
awsome
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是非、ソナタアルバムに載せて欲しかった佳品。
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anyone who listens to this and thinks that Beethoven "Never learned a thing from Haydn" as he claimed, knows the young Ludvig was full of shit. He learned a lot from the elder master. If you want to really hear a piece that Beethoven knew and copied---go listen to Haydn's variations in F minor. That one has several ideas that were used by Ludvig in his "Appassionata Sonata"(Op 57) and his slow mvt in Op 10 #2(Also in F minor)
Beethoven’s comment did not refer to Haydn generally, but specifically and only to the counterpoint* lessons which lasted on and off for about 14 months from Beethoven’s arrival in Vienna in November 1792 until Haydn’s departure for his second trip to England in January 1794.
Taken out of context - as most people do - Beethoven’s comment is meaningless as it’s clear that in terms of free composition, Beethoven’s debt to Haydn is huge.
By the way, Haydn recommended Albrechtsberger - the best teacher in Vienna - to take over the counterpoint lessons after he left for England; he too found Beethoven awkward, and unlike Haydn - in spite of the tetchy comments aimed at Haydn - Albrechtsberger never received the honour of a dedication which Haydn did soon after his return from England in 1795 with Beethoven’s Opus 2 piano sonatas.
* Counterpoint is a form of strict musical grammar.
Haydn and Mozart built the road from classical to Romanticism. Beethoven just lived long enough to patch a few holes and cross it
Debatable: neither Mozart nor Haydn wrote a single note of music bearing any relation to Romanticism whatsoever - a totally alien concept from a future age.
Not sure the degree Beethoven can be described as Romantic either when compared to Schumann, Chopin, Mendelssohn, Liszt, et al.
Mozart and Haydn together represent the pinnacle of music of the Classical period* (c.1750-1800), and I’m not sure it’s fair to saddle them with the John the Baptist role to the assumed Jesus Christ of Romanticism.
* I’ve deliberately cut off this period c.1800 - in spite of what many so-called experts tell us - to remove Beethoven who I think is better described as post-Classical.
@@elaineblackhurst1509 Beethoven fans are in denial. It's pretty obvious what would've been 3 seconds in a Haydb piece might be 3 minutes in a Beethoven piece and jts called "romanticism". I'm saying that he took almost all their good melodies and techniques and expanded on him. He basically took over where mozart had left off. We will never know? Because unfortunately you can't change history. But to me, Mozart would have done similar things had he lived longer because he was the greater genius out of all of them. Mozarts second movement of his piano concerto 18 provided some of the inspiration for a Beethovens 7th symphony second movement. You have to listen to all of it to find the gems that Beethoven used.
Other examples. Mozarts piano concerto #24 and Beethovens final movement of his appasionate concerto. Beethoven actually took the structure of mozarts c minor fantasy and the final movement of his 24th concerto to come up the final melody. Beethovens use of woodwinds were completely taken from mozart. Mozarts lacrimosa movement in his requiem was an inspiration for the beginning of Beethovens 9th symphony. The strings at the end of the lacrimosa are similar to how he starts his 9th. I'm just saying the countless examples of him taking from mozart and haydn lead me to say they contributed to the beginning of romanticism. Because I'm confident that without those two for inspiration, Beethoven wouldn't have been "romantic". Schubert was probably even more romantic, and it's amazing how much schubert took from mozart as well. I just wish people would give mozart and haydn the credit they deserved for putting a lot of these ideas in Beethovens head.
@@elaineblackhurst1509 take away mozarts don Giovanni overture and would the development of schuberts 7th symphony even have been possible? Such an obvious inspiration. ruclips.net/user/clipUgkxsikrh0q35uGbP2jFCQYbw5PSbA48WEcS
Although the schubert example is not Beethoven, I'm trying to show that some of the feeling, the power and emotion didn't always originate from beethoven but from mozart and haydn. Beethoven spend years trying to make it unique and different , but I usually can still find the source.
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Gross, sehr gross, diese Musik rechtfertigt die Aristokratie. Was konnte sie Besseres tun als Auftraggeber solcher Musik zu sein!
thumbs down ??????????????????????????????????????why
Can anyone please tell me the story behind this piece?
As far as I know, c minor = lovesick key, so was Haydn lovesick by any means when he composed this?
Well, at least I do. Whenever I compose/arrange a piece in the key of c minor, I always put my personal story (lovesick story) behind it.
bill Bloggs
:)
If your instrument is tuned to 440 Hertz, the key signatures make no difference in mood, unless of course it's the difference of minor to major or major to minor. The only perceivable difference at 440 Hertz would be simply the pitch of the entire piece.
Well that was unnecessary.
@bill Bloggs rude, do you even know their music?
@@rampgamercracka4258 Sabrina, that's not true - equal temperament means that the intervals are not consistent from key to key, and so every key has its own sound - try listening to Eb compared to say B, and you'll hear a big difference! And similarly I don't think the tuning pitch is relevant (except that it will change the nature of each key slightly)
I though mozart composed this .
Really doesn’t sound like Mozart at all, musically, it’s from a completely different planet.
Haydn said Mozarts talent was way above his own.
@@beethovenlovedmozart ハイドンはとても謙虚です
@@beethovenlovedmozart
True in part, but taken out of context, it’s misleading; the fact remains however that Haydn was the only contemporary composer to Mozart who could produce a sonata like this (and several others), that is a match for Mozart’s very best.
Way too fast
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